its a bit odd how fixxability and replace-ability is now 'special' if certain companies did not lead the charge at ATNI repair behavior (looking at you apple) this would not be needed.
A correction is needed, there is two m.2 slots for storage, a 2280 and a 2230. The 2230 is most likely above the 2280 and is perhaps hidden by the black paper like cover that is near the heat pipes.
I would like you to clarify something about delivery from Framework They send using post office or courier their products to customers homes on supported countries or they have shops, they own or others, in supported countries?
My father dropped his 2 year old framework 13 off the top of a car and damaged the frame/case and webcam but somehow not the screen. Framework let me order EXACTLY the parts I needed, $100 later and I was able to transfer the entire computer over just like any desktop, except faster. Good luck getting parts for any other laptop at all, let alone years down the line. After that, I am absolutely sold on this company. Now that they have GPUs they will be my next PC purchase
With a normal laptop you're basically limited to buying someone else's bits. Be it dismantled or a whole defunct (or functional) laptop. I know, because i used to do this back in the day to keep older laptops running for years past their expiration date.
I don't think the modular nature is to swap out parts every day. I hope this makes it feasible for users to upgrade parts at 1-2 year intervals, and to repair failing parts to reduce e-waste.
It's a bit of both. Primary design definitely feels like it is meant to allow repair, but it's built robust enough that you can absolutely swap stuff day to day as you feel like it. I have a framework 13 right now and I keep a couple of extra ports in my backpack just in case I need to do a presentation and they don't have a display port connection that I can use. I just swap in the HDMI. I am interested to see how the 16 continues with that because swapping the back module is a little bit more involved and it's not technically hot swappable because you can't really remove a graphics card while a device is running, but it could be interesting to see what people figure out with it
Yes to both of those, but also it makes the machine customizable - Most people won't be changing out the ports day to day, but everyone can get exactly the port configuration they want.
I don't always need an ethernet port, but when I do I can just swap out a module easy peasy. It really makes adapting to specialized conditions easy and temporary.
i use a different sets for work and travel, however when i need an extra port just for a moment, i just use the usb-c port and put another dongle there instead of removing the module :)
what Norm didn't really emphasize on was that the ""marketplace" he mentions in the video is a place where other consumers can sell their used parts that they no longer use... for example, if someone upgraded their gpu or motherboard, you could buy their used parts at a discount rather than buying new from Framework. That is absolutely game changing!!! Especially if people don't need the latest and greatest gpu/cpu and they just want to upgrade what they have or maybe replace a broken piece they need.
They promised this before dropping their first computer, but nothing has materialised yet, and my post got deleted when I called them out on not having done it yet.
@@okatbikes4917 it was probably a duplicate. They've had this in FAQ for a while; tldr is that allowing customer-to-customer marketplace requires quite a lot of infrastructure that they can't prioritize yet. Making a buy/sell post on their subreddit works well as a marketplace for now.
I don't think the swappable pieces are meant as a daily re-config option, more so that in the LONG run you are not locked into the choices you made at the time of purchase, you can swap things to meet your needs in the future.
You mentioned multi-year upgradability, but overlooked the ability for self-repair. As a parent of four children, I think their next round of laptop upgrades will all be frameworks... so if they trash a keyboard I can replace just the keyboard instead of the entire laptop (needless to say, kids damage laptops in ways that are never covered under any warranty). I can only imagine the savings in a real 'fleet' situation.
This is so far from correct, almost all laptops will only need the keyboard replaced if the keyboard is damaged, yes some need the palm rest as well as they are made as one unit but I have yet to find a laptop that needs to be completely replaced because just the keyboard is damaged and this is what I do for a living so I am qualified to say so and price wise for many brands replacing the keyboard would be far cheaper than the equivalent part from framework
@@garybell3924 It's not so much the parts as the fact that most laptops are not made to be 'user servicable' - their replacement procedures involve delicate fiddling with micro connectors and easily broken/lost little pieces. So I end up paying for labor, which is a whole bunch of extra $$$ - way more than t he difference in cost of a framework keyboard over, say, lenovo.
Ok as an example if I were to repair a Lenovo 320-14ISK keyboard for a customer the total costs would be Keyboard £35.34 Labour £29.99 That totals £65.33 The cost of a keyboard module for the laptop in this video from framework is £59 + £10 shipping totalling £69 and that is when it is available. That is just one example I can give you quite literally hundreds of different examples that would be cheaper than a framework keyboard alone to be repaired by me for a customer with parts that are new and readily available
A part you're overlooking though, is the actual computer's support for that shiny new piece. If I wanted to upgrade my battery to the new higher capacity one in my 12th gen, i'm SOL. FW can't or won't release a working BIOS that allows compatibility. So what happens when the new GPU comes out with the next gen 16, but they've already abandoned gen1, despite the piece physically fitting inside?
@@okatbikes4917 not yet. They're just a small company with limited resources for back-compatibility. They will get better as time goes on - and it takes time to build that compatibility into the BIOS. But since their entire ethos is centered around such backwards compatibility, I have no doubt that they will make it work.
I would have the programmable button module on the right side and default it to function like the numpad when I'm not using it for anything else. Best of both worlds.
I love the flexibility so much. You get the choice of doing that in software, or just carry the numpad and macropad modules and swap the out ez-pz! I'm very tactile so I'd probably go with the latter
Given the prices of their parts on their website, the cost of an upgrade is not going to be cheaper than buying an entire laptop, currently at least anyway
This will be my first windows laptop since 2006 and that laptop was $1700 which is like ~$2,600 today. This one is my aim to be the last laptop i ever use.
I really like the swappable IO because my USB slots tend to wear out. I have a penchant for unplugging things quite frequently. The fact that I can simply replace bad IO ports is always a plus for me. Of course, this won't fix the weak USB on my mouse, or microphone, but it is one less point of failure.
I always used to say how my next phone might be the highly repairable Fairphone. It turned out to be that way. I guess it is inevitable now then that my next laptop will be from Framework. It's so cool to see their progress!
With the 13" i've found I have a "normal" configuration of 2 usb-c 2 usb-a but then I carry the Ethernet module and the different display ones for when i am going to places.
This modular laptop design is SUCH a great idea! I'll be keeping this thing in mind for when the price comes down enough that I can save up to buy it! Reminds me of the 3D animated "Robots" movie with Bigweld and the Robin Williams character, where there's a board meeting and someone says - "Why would anyone buy upgrades when parts are so much cheaper?" "Because as of today we are no longer MAKING spare parts!" And this is like the reverse of that, really putting the power back in the hands of the end-user, so we don't have to just accept the pre-built configurations anymore! Desktops have always been part-swap-friendly (sort of), but laptops, not so much!
Best part is, you can buy used (either as a whole or in parts) and then slowly Ship of Theseus it up with upgraded and replacement parts over the next year! (the 16” won’t have used parts on the market yet, it’s brand new, but if you’re looking at the 13” you could do this, or wait 6 months and the used market for these 16” might start filling up).
I love the idea. I agree, it probably isnt something Id change often, but I like the idea of being able to upgrade it rather than a laptop being obsolete and having to buy a completely new laptop every few years. Even the connections, having the options to get the newest usb connections is very nice compared to regular laptops
As a Framework 13 user, Norm's comment about going on a long trip is a good one - I also don't swap out modules very often, but when I travel I keep some spare modules in my backpack - an extra USB-A and an extra USB-C, HDMI, and Ethernet. They can come in handy when you find yourself in a hotel room or borrowing someone's desk.
As a laptop repair tech, I LOVE❤ this so much. The modularity & magnet/slot design is amazing 👍 For me there's only two laptop brands I'd buy, Framework or Lenovo !
DO NOT buy a piece of tech on the promise of what it may become, despite of what it is right now. - This is an important rule that I've learned over the years as a tech geek and "review channel" watcher (MKBHD and others). *However*, Framework has delivered what they promised so far (as far as I know, not being able to personally own one of these due to my budget and locale), so I tip my hat to them, applaud what they're doing and what they stand for. And for that, I would break the rule I mentioned above. It's important to support the people and companies that do the right thing, not just what's good for profit and their bottom line, but what's also good for the consumer and for the environment. It pains me to not be able to purchase one of their devices, and put my money where my mouth is. Thank you for showcasing it, Norm and Tested crew!
I agree. With a number of tech companies, I would hear of products but not buy them, then they'd release a newer generation product with the features I want and I'd buy that. Reviews like these show that the Framework Laptop 16 has IMDA certification, which proves that Framework are working to sell their products to people in Singapore!! I do remember registering my interest on their website, and am still working on saving up for a Laptop 13 for if Framework were to ever make a Lenovo Yoga style tablet with pen and touch input and add an eraser head mouse.
@@kbhasiThe cool thing is that the display connection is wired up to support touchscreens so there may very well be a touchscreen available in the future which I find so cool.
@@ilikepizza1275 Yep! I knew that from photos I saw online, including on iFixit and Framework's official service manuals. Framework having sent out production candidate (according to their latest newsletter) prototypes to publications like Tested and Linus Tech Tips to review them as pre-orders for production units open also allowed me to gather reference units for Framework Laptop 16 with US layout keyboard for a fan-fiction idea I had been working on as a side project, like with videos and photos I had seen of Framework Laptop 13 with US layout keyboard, and TH-cam user Cameron Gray's video of a Framework Laptop 13 with UK layout keyboard. Basically, as I currently picture my fan-fiction idea in my mind, a lot of the protagonists would use fictional laptops modelled after a mix of mostly Framework Laptop and IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad models.
Thank you, Norm! Your 2021 video on Frame Work is the reason why I own a 13" Framework laptop. I enjoy how light it is. I plan to upgrade it to the AMD main board.
I think that with the 13 so far they seem to be delivering on their promise is good. 'Modular' 'easily upgradeable' PCs go back decades but almost never go beyond that first product. I did seriously consider the 13 a few months ago, though there seemed to be some availability issues at the time and ultimately went back to the same brand I've been using for 30yrs.
My one disappointment is that they have abandoned the built in headphone jack (as was present on the 13) and now it takes up a USB slot. The 16 has built-in speakers so it must have a DAC on board, therefore a headphone jack could have been connected to that DAC.
@@zachmoyer1849 Yes! That does not mean that I do not use Bluetooth headphones. It means that I also use wired headphones (and often prefer them) or my HiFi or a mixer or some other audio device of various age.
@@AlexandruVoda i mean they make adaptors that allow audio and data through one usb-c port if you honestly need that many usb c ports while also using your wired headphones. but framework should offer that expansion card option ill give you that.
@@zachmoyer1849 In the case of Framework, a combo audio + USB passthrough (ideally with power delivery) is something that could even be made by the community. But my point was, same as with smartphones, that there already is a DAC inside (because of the built-in speakers) that already has the pins for an output but is simply not connected to an output. there almost certainly would have been space for a jack connector and it is disappointing that there isn't one. Otherwise, nice laptop.
@@AlexandruVoda thing is you are in the minority now and people likely would prefer to not have a port they never use for aesthetics, dirt, and from a design standpoint it is easier. From a repairability aspect having it be a module is better as well. Its prob a crap DAC if you really want such a good experience the built in DAC likely wasnt gonna give it anyways, so now you would upgrade to a better module instead of having a crappier permanent jack.
I just wanted to add there the laptop supports 2 M.2 drives not 1, the second one goes underneath the first one and it only supports up to 2230 (the minimum size in the standard but hey there are available in up to 2TB and PCIe 4.0 speeds and availability is great thanks to the Steam Deck) that’s why there is a hole in the board next to the M.2 Besides that, great video, I enjoyed it
I’ve been watching Framework for a few years. Unfortunately, I bought a new laptop just before they launched, which is still doing me just fine. But I will almost certainly get a Framework 16 as my next laptop. My only complaint (which hopefully will be remedied soon) is lack of top-speed easily swappable storage. Their “USB-C module” drives are good speed for a USB drive, but not “boot drive speed”. I’d love to have a multi-boot computer by fully swapping storage modules. (I work in information security, I usually carry a “travel laptop” when traveling that doesn’t have any personal/sensitive data on it at all. I’d love to instead just swap boot drives via one of the modules and use my primary laptop.) I could easily see that I’d use the GPU module and one boot drive most of the time, then swap to the cooling-only and my “travel” boot drive for travel. (Heck, I’d love it if they made a battery expansion for the rear bay.)
As for battery, the thing is fully operated with USB-C PD charging you can get power banks that can charge the laptop and anything you want instead of using the rear Expansion Bay, I’ve found powerbanks that can do 100W PD to one device that’s enough to charge the device specially if you don’t push the discrete GPU module
@@Pro720HyperMaster720 Powerbanks have different airline baggage rules than laptops, and take up extra space and inconvenience over just slapping an extra battery into what would otherwise be empty space in the laptop.
@@AnonymousFreakYT In fact rules are very similar no more than 100Wh batteries per device, So if your laptop has a combined more than 100Wh, you’ll have a problem, that’s why the laptops with the biggest batteries all have 99.9Wh, and if you carry the module separately in a bag would be effectively treated as a powerbank, so there are two options or it couldn’t be larger than 15Wh (FW 16 85Wh), or must be carry separately under the same rules as a powerbank, the last flight I took, I read the airlines rules and battery of devices was limited to less or equal to 100Wh or it wouldn’t be allow on cabin and for external batteries (defined as device that could power/charge other device/s) you had a max of 6 batteries of less than 100Wh or two 100Wh+ (I don’t remember the range, I think it said up to 150Wh or up to 120Wh, can’t remember) No joking me and my friend were taking 8, 72Wh powerbank (30Wh PD btw, enough to sustain battery in my laptop for browsing) as I read the rules because I was doubtful if we would have troubles with the airlines I wore 4 and my friend the other 4. TL;DR: wouldn’t make a difference, Expansion bay batteries are not viable, and even if it were there is more than one reason laptop manufacturers don’t use extra batteries any more, for premium laptops they can already pack the max legal (so it can’t have problems with any airline) So In the end is a tiny space, and if you were able to pack 20Wh in that space that I think could be possible the laptop could put you in trouble if it’s connected and too small to make it worth it against the powerbanks, sorry for repeating myself
@@spdcrzy obviously with "startup" I'm simply putting emphasis on how it started. Four years is nothing. There's still a great chance of a collapse, unless they'll become popular enough, and will sustain the popularity. They could easily go down in 10 years for whatever reason. And 10 years of existence is not success.
14:45 just for clarification, the connection could allow for another battery in an expansion bay module and framework has talked about it before as something they may be working on, though it has not been formally announced. however, i believe there are a few community members designing one.
I purchased a first gen framework 13 motherboard on ebay for around $200. Used a case design from Prusa Printables, a $79 12 inch HDMI touchscreen, and some DDR memory and NVME drive I had laying around. Built a pretty good homebuilt compact computer from basically recycled parts for less than $400
So excited to get my hands on one. I hope they also iterate on future versions, like maybe making a case with 3:2 and 16:9 display options but using the same motherboard and all
I ordered my FW 16 last year, in what seems like ages ago. Anxiously waiting delivery to replace my (2) HP X360 which both have failing keyboards. Replacing the keyboard in the FW would be like 2 minutes or less. I have had both X360s apart to replace batteries, and saw that the keyboard replacement will be a not so simple job. I will probably do it just to have something cheap to travel with and/or give presentations. But I do not look forward to that time investment to fix them. I do not see an issue with swapping ports often. I buy it, arrange the ports the way I want, and seldom change, except when needing something different for an unusual condition. My whole issue is getting that FIRST when on new laptops of other brands, I cannot. Some are not including audio jacks at all. And I need one for sure. And I need the repair-ability. I am a BSEE engineer, and IT Professional.
People having their minds blown forget that 60-70 years ago, THIS IS EXACTLY how products were sold. They were INCREDIBLY repairable and upgradable with minimal tools. All you needed were some wrenches, screwdrivers, and incredibly detailed instructions - the last of which companies almost never give out to customers today, and it's incredibly stupid.
I could see this as being quite useful for my field. Sure, hot-swapping USB, display, SD refers, etc. doesn’t sound useful for the average person, but I work in an electrical test lab where we often need to connect to old equipment. Finding a laptop with an RS-232 can be a pain sometimes, or once in a while you gotta grab an extra monitor but all you have is an antiquated DVI or VGA model available. And then, the keyboard… being able to take out a standard number pad and replacing it with a second trackpad to control a remote resistive touch screen, I can think of so many times when a keyboard isn’t quite right. I really hope this does continue, because it is a mil-aero test technician’s dream come true. Big question though: can the monitor be changed out as easily? If it is damaged, or say you need something that can accommodate a thicker keyboard, or higher capacity battery… I already need to carry around the old Dell Precisions occasionally so I don’t care if it ends up being three inches thick and ten pounds.
The monitor is pretty easy to swap out. The bezel is magnetic and there are just like 4 screws you need to remove. Once you've done it once, it will probably take 15 minutes to swap out. Battery swaps are very easy.
As a sinister character (e.g. southpaw), the left-oriented number pad would be amazing. Also, a number pad without the gap for arrow keys and editing buttons would be convenient.
The modularity is super cool if you do wanna swap things around but I agree that won't be the primary use-case. Easy affordable upgrades and a massive reduction in e-waste is definitely the big draw. Additionally the stated ethos of the company combined with easy service by the end user will aid in pushing other manufactures towards "right to repair". As for the cost, I think you nailed it with the value proposition thing. Hopefully as framework grows (right now they are still pretty small as far as staff and manufacturing output) and other manufactures move into to the space (particularly with designs being open source) the price will come down to be more in line with comparable offerings from other companies.
Framework 16 is gonna be my next laptop, but I'll be postponing on discrete GPU, since the GPUs that Framework offers right now are not capable of comfortably running Starfield. My hope is that in the near future, more powerful GPUs will come out and I would be able to abandon my desktop altogether.
I plan on using it to run Starfield, but I'm used to playing the game at 30 fps as I currently play it on an Xbox Series X. My definition of playable is probably a little different than yours. Still super excited for it.
Your hope of abandoning desktop will never come to fruition. Most game devs simply don't have the expertise on their teams or the monetary incentive to optimize their games (most games today could be optimized to run 400% faster with no impact to visual fidelity). In fact, Nvidia's DLSS encourages the opposite - don't optimize your game and get kickbacks to encourage eternally buying new graphics cards.
@@gamechannel1271 Maybe you're right. Right now I have RX 7900 XT and relatively compact laptops wouldn't be able to come close to that performance for years.
I truly, truly wish the Trackpoint were available on this and most other laptops. I have never been able to come to terms with trackpads. In time, I could treat the Trackpoint as if it were really a movable joystick, and found it second nature. I disabled trackpads immediately, if the other option was available. Turns out there are standalone wired or wireless keyboards with trackpoint.
As far as I know I believe drawings of the modules are available in some capacity. I know the community has been fairly active designing their own modules to fit needs/wants that others have requested.
The STL files for the module housing are free to download, and the USB-C connector specification is already open by nature. So is complete physical compatibility limited to Framework laptops for now? Yes. But you could use any module as a USB-C to whatever dongle on any other laptop and it works just fine.
@@spdcrzy I forget which video it was on LTT where Linus picked up a laptop and went I wish we could have an HDMI and then realized he had a framework dongle.
@@spdcrzy yeah. I'm trying to talk myself out from purchasing another laptop looking at that new FW 16, but..... I do need a new streaming computer OBS on the 2019 MacBook Pro is just not cutting it anymore. And Mac OS X is getting buggy features like a ridiculous settings panel and full screen mode that blanks out all other monitors. I seem to be moving to windows and Linux.
16:38 -- 5 minutes? Naw, it took 15 min. Started reassembly at 2:53am/pm (it's on the Apple Watch at 15:59 timestamp) and it was being finished up at 3:08am/pm (16:25 timestamp, you can see the time again on the Apple Watch)
Make a swappable keyboard that bests thinkpad keyboards --- I'm on board. THAT is the most tactile interface for me. Most laptop users are not gamers -- they are the folks that do the work to ensure the "gamers" can try to emulate the gaming power a tower provides.
my next laptop is practically guaranteed to be a framework at this point. i just wish they had this same panel tech in the 13 -- my current laptop is a higher res oled, but i could take the downgrade in the screen for a better device that actually lasts. but going all the way down to srgb sucks.
@@PaulJimenez3 there's an option for that happening, yeah, afaik it's a simple eDP connection. but they're also yet to release a touchscreen option and the support for that has been there from day one, so while they have a great track record in general, there's currently nothing in terms of screen upgrades.
Maybe a gen or two from now when stuff gets even smaller they could have a battery bay that had high output to get full power to a GPU/CPU while on battery. That’s would be neat.. maybe to niche to be worthwhile for them.
It would have been nice if they put an M.2 slot or two in the empty space on the rear module so you can make use of those PCIe lanes when not using a dedicated GPU.
The Framework 16 would look better, aesthetically, with a larger trackpad and a single piece of metal across the entire palm rest. If the palm rest was one piece the palm area would be stiffer too. Could be an option later.
The _fact_ Framework is still releasing audio expansions with a single four-pole is _quite_ the meme. I just don't understand why they can't do a dual-jack connector which enables _two_ people t use a headset with microphone. But i guess with six bays you can either use multiple or attach it to a mixer instead.
Different. The 13 and 16 appeal to different audiences - I found people who want smaller laptops very rarely would buy bigger laptops, and vice versa. Framework is launching the 16 to try to cover more bases
I feel crazy but I'm thinking about getting a framework for running OBS. should I get the graphics upgrade? Should I get the clear keyboard? Will it be powerful enough to take in 4-6 NDI streams? Definitely getting the macro pad I feel like that could work really cool for selecting scenes and having a color indicate which one's active.
You seem to point to the modularity as not being very useful in the sense you don't swap stuff all the time. I think you're missing the point here, I can simply order the exact machine I want, it's not fixed... that's the point. :) And if in the future I get a new monitor without hdmi, I can swap that port. That trick with the LED's is also a very old solution, seen on many computers from back in the day, love it.
As you can with pretty much any laptop today that has usb c, all of those ports are readily available adapters in a proprietary case for the fw chassis
Nice internal design, and looks easy to clean. Shame it only comes in silver, and also that the outer shell seems to have been designed by whoever designed the Tesla truck. I would have literally preferred a plain rectangular case in almost _any_ other colour (black, white, orange, yellow, purple; anything but that plasticky aluminium look).
I wish I could get a laptop, any laptop to last more than five years. Last two I've had, needed upgrades after 2-3 years, to replace aging battery, increase HD and RAM space, to handle newer software. But even with that, they both failed right around the 5 year mark, both with a mysterious "works fine for 20-30 minutes, but eventually will just lock up" failure. Swapping in known-good RAM and HD didn't help, which was about the extent of my ability to trouble-shoot. All the manufacturers would do (HP and Dell) is let me pay hundreds of dollars for a new MB. Especially these days, with the demands of newer software not increasing at the pace it used to (Microsoft's inane "you have to have TPM installed for Windows 11" requirement notwithstanding), if the hardware itself would keep working, I think a 10-year-old laptop would completely suffice for my needs. But they just don't last that long. :(
The modules are just normal USB-C adapters in a housing, so yes you can. LTT did a review of this as well and was dissapointed that the gpu output wasnt a full display port, then realised it was USB-C and the exixting display port module they had could just be plugged into the output on the rear (which isn't showcased in this video).
The modularity isn't for switching configurations really - except for the odd "Well, I need 2x HDMI or 2x DisplayPort or I need an ethernet jack/SD card reader" for a specific task. Where it really hits home is in the case there's damage to the unit. Lets say the keyboard acts up. Buy a new keyboard. Numpad fritzes? Buy that. Need a top plate because something dented the unit/damaged the pogos? Get that. Hinge goes to crap? They sell them too. Base case gets smashed from a fall - covered. Etc. Etc. Etc. It is the Laptop of Theseus. I don't like changing machines. I get used to a keyboard layout, screen, system size, etc. The upgradablility is amazing but its the repairability that really hits the spot for me. I've lost too many laptops to wear-n-tear damage - usually due to the use of plastics in places plastics really shouldn't be used, such as hinge anchor points near high-powered processor thermal vents. The premium price is worth it for the fact that I don't have to buy a new machine every 5 years or so because it fell apart on me. And what is also worth it? The idea I could go intel if I wanted to when they release that - go AMD again in the future. Sure, they're probably going to change the design in 5-6 years, I'm fine with that. Who knows though - maybe they'll figure out a way to keep a new design compatible with the current motherboard and module layout - just a better case aesthetic. Also when I upgrade the motherboard I plan on using the old one in a in-desk-computer build. :)
It's such a shame the speakers are pretty poor. Going to need to replace my laptop in the next 12 months and other than speakers it's ideal. Upgradability and repairability is high on the list seeing as I like keeping them as long as possible. Old laptop is almost 6 years old and still works fine, but is showing its age speed wise. Can't even upgrade ram on it :(
@@tappD_oot yeah, they said they were looking into it since it seemed to be an outlier, but they haven’t really said what it is though. But according to the emails they sent, they are looking into it and if they find a solution, they will send out fixes to people who already have it by then and it will be applied to all later units
It is probably better for the environment but not your wallet new motherboards cost almost as much as a new laptop on its own hopefully framework can get it the price down in the future
i thought on this pc some time, but you can find same spec in cpu & gpu power for 1000$ -1500$ (the 4060M RTX is 5% slower) , and for real you can find onces for cheap, also, getting 16 inch last gen intel, that going for 1500-1800 with 3080 will give you better performance. at the price of 1 framework, i can buy 2 laptops with same power. or 1 that is much stronger. i am for real dont get why they getting so much love, fixing PC for 200-300$ is nice, but when you paying double market cost, you kind of paying yourself on the parts.
You are bang on the money, the only real difference in their repairability is the fact that they make the info public to do so, they are certainly not better on cost and parts are readily available for pretty much every laptop on the market in many cases cheaper than fw laptop parts. Its a gimmick
Framework Laptop 16: frame.work/products/laptop16-diy-amd-7040
Disclosure: This product was loaned to us for purposes of review.
First great videos love you guys
its a bit odd how fixxability and replace-ability is now 'special' if certain companies did not lead the charge at ATNI repair behavior (looking at you apple) this would not be needed.
A correction is needed, there is two m.2 slots for storage, a 2280 and a 2230. The 2230 is most likely above the 2280 and is perhaps hidden by the black paper like cover that is near the heat pipes.
@@alatnet This is correct. There's a spot below the longer ssd for the smaller ssd. Both can be accupied at the same time.
I would like you to clarify something about delivery from Framework
They send using post office or courier their products to customers homes on supported countries or they have shops, they own or others, in supported countries?
My father dropped his 2 year old framework 13 off the top of a car and damaged the frame/case and webcam but somehow not the screen. Framework let me order EXACTLY the parts I needed, $100 later and I was able to transfer the entire computer over just like any desktop, except faster. Good luck getting parts for any other laptop at all, let alone years down the line.
After that, I am absolutely sold on this company. Now that they have GPUs they will be my next PC purchase
With a normal laptop you're basically limited to buying someone else's bits. Be it dismantled or a whole defunct (or functional) laptop. I know, because i used to do this back in the day to keep older laptops running for years past their expiration date.
They've also open-sourced their stuff like the module specs, both the expansion and USB-C ones, so ANYONE can make compatible gear!
I figured there could be tragic damage, and that the repair would be easy. And you just proved both in a rather elegant way. Thanks.
@@aserta Even if they sell parts, they would sell the entire motherboard, or entire display assembly. So like half the price of a new laptop.
I don't think the modular nature is to swap out parts every day. I hope this makes it feasible for users to upgrade parts at 1-2 year intervals, and to repair failing parts to reduce e-waste.
It's a bit of both. Primary design definitely feels like it is meant to allow repair, but it's built robust enough that you can absolutely swap stuff day to day as you feel like it.
I have a framework 13 right now and I keep a couple of extra ports in my backpack just in case I need to do a presentation and they don't have a display port connection that I can use. I just swap in the HDMI. I am interested to see how the 16 continues with that because swapping the back module is a little bit more involved and it's not technically hot swappable because you can't really remove a graphics card while a device is running, but it could be interesting to see what people figure out with it
Yes to both of those, but also it makes the machine customizable - Most people won't be changing out the ports day to day, but everyone can get exactly the port configuration they want.
I don't always need an ethernet port, but when I do I can just swap out a module easy peasy. It really makes adapting to specialized conditions easy and temporary.
Its always nice to be able to lend a port to a macbook user when they need some ports that they are missing.
i use a different sets for work and travel, however when i need an extra port just for a moment, i just use the usb-c port and put another dongle there instead of removing the module :)
what Norm didn't really emphasize on was that the ""marketplace" he mentions in the video is a place where other consumers can sell their used parts that they no longer use... for example, if someone upgraded their gpu or motherboard, you could buy their used parts at a discount rather than buying new from Framework. That is absolutely game changing!!! Especially if people don't need the latest and greatest gpu/cpu and they just want to upgrade what they have or maybe replace a broken piece they need.
They promised this before dropping their first computer, but nothing has materialised yet, and my post got deleted when I called them out on not having done it yet.
@@okatbikes4917 it was probably a duplicate. They've had this in FAQ for a while; tldr is that allowing customer-to-customer marketplace requires quite a lot of infrastructure that they can't prioritize yet. Making a buy/sell post on their subreddit works well as a marketplace for now.
@okatbikes4917 what are you on about? The marketplace has been live for months, lol. So it was deleted with good reason.
@@BouncingZeus I don't see any options to sell your own parts as a third party. Only parts sold directly by Framework, and a case by CoolerMaster.
I don't think the swappable pieces are meant as a daily re-config option, more so that in the LONG run you are not locked into the choices you made at the time of purchase, you can swap things to meet your needs in the future.
You mentioned multi-year upgradability, but overlooked the ability for self-repair. As a parent of four children, I think their next round of laptop upgrades will all be frameworks... so if they trash a keyboard I can replace just the keyboard instead of the entire laptop (needless to say, kids damage laptops in ways that are never covered under any warranty). I can only imagine the savings in a real 'fleet' situation.
This is so far from correct, almost all laptops will only need the keyboard replaced if the keyboard is damaged, yes some need the palm rest as well as they are made as one unit but I have yet to find a laptop that needs to be completely replaced because just the keyboard is damaged and this is what I do for a living so I am qualified to say so and price wise for many brands replacing the keyboard would be far cheaper than the equivalent part from framework
@@garybell3924 It's not so much the parts as the fact that most laptops are not made to be 'user servicable' - their replacement procedures involve delicate fiddling with micro connectors and easily broken/lost little pieces. So I end up paying for labor, which is a whole bunch of extra $$$ - way more than t he difference in cost of a framework keyboard over, say, lenovo.
Ok as an example if I were to repair a Lenovo 320-14ISK keyboard for a customer the total costs would be
Keyboard £35.34
Labour £29.99
That totals £65.33
The cost of a keyboard module for the laptop in this video from framework is £59 + £10 shipping totalling £69 and that is when it is available.
That is just one example I can give you quite literally hundreds of different examples that would be cheaper than a framework keyboard alone to be repaired by me for a customer with parts that are new and readily available
A part you're overlooking though, is the actual computer's support for that shiny new piece. If I wanted to upgrade my battery to the new higher capacity one in my 12th gen, i'm SOL. FW can't or won't release a working BIOS that allows compatibility. So what happens when the new GPU comes out with the next gen 16, but they've already abandoned gen1, despite the piece physically fitting inside?
@@okatbikes4917 not yet. They're just a small company with limited resources for back-compatibility. They will get better as time goes on - and it takes time to build that compatibility into the BIOS. But since their entire ethos is centered around such backwards compatibility, I have no doubt that they will make it work.
There are actually 2 M.2 slots! One 2280 and one 2230 socket. They are stacked but both can be used at the same time.
Came here to say this 😊
woah
I would have the programmable button module on the right side and default it to function like the numpad when I'm not using it for anything else. Best of both worlds.
I love the flexibility so much. You get the choice of doing that in software, or just carry the numpad and macropad modules and swap the out ez-pz! I'm very tactile so I'd probably go with the latter
is also great for deep cleaning years down the line. Hopefully this becomes more popular in other countries
The key to this laptop is not what the configuration is today, but how reasonable is the upgrades on the future.
Given the prices of their parts on their website, the cost of an upgrade is not going to be cheaper than buying an entire laptop, currently at least anyway
This will be my first windows laptop since 2006 and that laptop was $1700 which is like ~$2,600 today. This one is my aim to be the last laptop i ever use.
I really like the swappable IO because my USB slots tend to wear out. I have a penchant for unplugging things quite frequently. The fact that I can simply replace bad IO ports is always a plus for me. Of course, this won't fix the weak USB on my mouse, or microphone, but it is one less point of failure.
I always used to say how my next phone might be the highly repairable Fairphone. It turned out to be that way. I guess it is inevitable now then that my next laptop will be from Framework. It's so cool to see their progress!
With the 13" i've found I have a "normal" configuration of 2 usb-c 2 usb-a but then I carry the Ethernet module and the different display ones for when i am going to places.
This modular laptop design is SUCH a great idea! I'll be keeping this thing in mind for when the price comes down enough that I can save up to buy it!
Reminds me of the 3D animated "Robots" movie with Bigweld and the Robin Williams character, where there's a board meeting and someone says - "Why would anyone buy upgrades when parts are so much cheaper?" "Because as of today we are no longer MAKING spare parts!"
And this is like the reverse of that, really putting the power back in the hands of the end-user, so we don't have to just accept the pre-built configurations anymore! Desktops have always been part-swap-friendly (sort of), but laptops, not so much!
Best part is, you can buy used (either as a whole or in parts) and then slowly Ship of Theseus it up with upgraded and replacement parts over the next year! (the 16” won’t have used parts on the market yet, it’s brand new, but if you’re looking at the 13” you could do this, or wait 6 months and the used market for these 16” might start filling up).
Norm has gotten extremely good at presenting things. Noice.
Pity about the nauseating camerawork 🤮
I love the idea. I agree, it probably isnt something Id change often, but I like the idea of being able to upgrade it rather than a laptop being obsolete and having to buy a completely new laptop every few years. Even the connections, having the options to get the newest usb connections is very nice compared to regular laptops
Same , I dont really want to buy a new laptop that usually cost alot of money
PLEASE make this the norm for laptops! This is such an amazing idea and there's no reason all companies can't embrace this going forward.
He already *_is_* the Norm
As a Framework 13 user, Norm's comment about going on a long trip is a good one - I also don't swap out modules very often, but when I travel I keep some spare modules in my backpack - an extra USB-A and an extra USB-C, HDMI, and Ethernet. They can come in handy when you find yourself in a hotel room or borrowing someone's desk.
As a laptop repair tech, I LOVE❤ this so much. The modularity & magnet/slot design is amazing 👍
For me there's only two laptop brands I'd buy, Framework or Lenovo !
DO NOT buy a piece of tech on the promise of what it may become, despite of what it is right now. - This is an important rule that I've learned over the years as a tech geek and "review channel" watcher (MKBHD and others).
*However*, Framework has delivered what they promised so far (as far as I know, not being able to personally own one of these due to my budget and locale), so I tip my hat to them, applaud what they're doing and what they stand for. And for that, I would break the rule I mentioned above.
It's important to support the people and companies that do the right thing, not just what's good for profit and their bottom line, but what's also good for the consumer and for the environment. It pains me to not be able to purchase one of their devices, and put my money where my mouth is. Thank you for showcasing it, Norm and Tested crew!
I agree. With a number of tech companies, I would hear of products but not buy them, then they'd release a newer generation product with the features I want and I'd buy that.
Reviews like these show that the Framework Laptop 16 has IMDA certification, which proves that Framework are working to sell their products to people in Singapore!! I do remember registering my interest on their website, and am still working on saving up for a Laptop 13 for if Framework were to ever make a Lenovo Yoga style tablet with pen and touch input and add an eraser head mouse.
@@kbhasiThe cool thing is that the display connection is wired up to support touchscreens so there may very well be a touchscreen available in the future which I find so cool.
@@ilikepizza1275 Yep! I knew that from photos I saw online, including on iFixit and Framework's official service manuals.
Framework having sent out production candidate (according to their latest newsletter) prototypes to publications like Tested and Linus Tech Tips to review them as pre-orders for production units open also allowed me to gather reference units for Framework Laptop 16 with US layout keyboard for a fan-fiction idea I had been working on as a side project, like with videos and photos I had seen of Framework Laptop 13 with US layout keyboard, and TH-cam user Cameron Gray's video of a Framework Laptop 13 with UK layout keyboard. Basically, as I currently picture my fan-fiction idea in my mind, a lot of the protagonists would use fictional laptops modelled after a mix of mostly Framework Laptop and IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad models.
MKBHD is a grifter, no need to listen to his advice.
Thank you, Norm! Your 2021 video on Frame Work is the reason why I own a 13" Framework laptop. I enjoy how light it is. I plan to upgrade it to the AMD main board.
Wait so you can upgrade the gpu like desktops ?
I think that with the 13 so far they seem to be delivering on their promise is good. 'Modular' 'easily upgradeable' PCs go back decades but almost never go beyond that first product. I did seriously consider the 13 a few months ago, though there seemed to be some availability issues at the time and ultimately went back to the same brand I've been using for 30yrs.
This is such an awesome concept, If I didn't just buy a Gaming Laptop, I'd want this, buyer remorse. 😞
Always happy to see people with a Framework laptop. I'm in support of any tech company that is dedicated to upgradability and sustainability.
My one disappointment is that they have abandoned the built in headphone jack (as was present on the 13) and now it takes up a USB slot. The 16 has built-in speakers so it must have a DAC on board, therefore a headphone jack could have been connected to that DAC.
do you honestly not just use bluetooth with a laptop?
@@zachmoyer1849 Yes! That does not mean that I do not use Bluetooth headphones. It means that I also use wired headphones (and often prefer them) or my HiFi or a mixer or some other audio device of various age.
@@AlexandruVoda i mean they make adaptors that allow audio and data through one usb-c port if you honestly need that many usb c ports while also using your wired headphones. but framework should offer that expansion card option ill give you that.
@@zachmoyer1849 In the case of Framework, a combo audio + USB passthrough (ideally with power delivery) is something that could even be made by the community. But my point was, same as with smartphones, that there already is a DAC inside (because of the built-in speakers) that already has the pins for an output but is simply not connected to an output. there almost certainly would have been space for a jack connector and it is disappointing that there isn't one. Otherwise, nice laptop.
@@AlexandruVoda thing is you are in the minority now and people likely would prefer to not have a port they never use for aesthetics, dirt, and from a design standpoint it is easier. From a repairability aspect having it be a module is better as well. Its prob a crap DAC if you really want such a good experience the built in DAC likely wasnt gonna give it anyways, so now you would upgrade to a better module instead of having a crappier permanent jack.
I just wanted to add there the laptop supports 2 M.2 drives not 1, the second one goes underneath the first one and it only supports up to 2230 (the minimum size in the standard but hey there are available in up to 2TB and PCIe 4.0 speeds and availability is great thanks to the Steam Deck) that’s why there is a hole in the board next to the M.2
Besides that, great video, I enjoyed it
I’ve been watching Framework for a few years. Unfortunately, I bought a new laptop just before they launched, which is still doing me just fine. But I will almost certainly get a Framework 16 as my next laptop.
My only complaint (which hopefully will be remedied soon) is lack of top-speed easily swappable storage. Their “USB-C module” drives are good speed for a USB drive, but not “boot drive speed”. I’d love to have a multi-boot computer by fully swapping storage modules. (I work in information security, I usually carry a “travel laptop” when traveling that doesn’t have any personal/sensitive data on it at all. I’d love to instead just swap boot drives via one of the modules and use my primary laptop.)
I could easily see that I’d use the GPU module and one boot drive most of the time, then swap to the cooling-only and my “travel” boot drive for travel. (Heck, I’d love it if they made a battery expansion for the rear bay.)
As for battery, the thing is fully operated with USB-C PD charging you can get power banks that can charge the laptop and anything you want instead of using the rear Expansion Bay, I’ve found powerbanks that can do 100W PD to one device that’s enough to charge the device specially if you don’t push the discrete GPU module
@@Pro720HyperMaster720 Powerbanks have different airline baggage rules than laptops, and take up extra space and inconvenience over just slapping an extra battery into what would otherwise be empty space in the laptop.
@@AnonymousFreakYT In fact rules are very similar no more than 100Wh batteries per device, So if your laptop has a combined more than 100Wh, you’ll have a problem, that’s why the laptops with the biggest batteries all have 99.9Wh, and if you carry the module separately in a bag would be effectively treated as a powerbank, so there are two options or it couldn’t be larger than 15Wh (FW 16 85Wh), or must be carry separately under the same rules as a powerbank, the last flight I took, I read the airlines rules and battery of devices was limited to less or equal to 100Wh or it wouldn’t be allow on cabin and for external batteries (defined as device that could power/charge other device/s) you had a max of 6 batteries of less than 100Wh or two 100Wh+ (I don’t remember the range, I think it said up to 150Wh or up to 120Wh, can’t remember)
No joking me and my friend were taking 8, 72Wh powerbank (30Wh PD btw, enough to sustain battery in my laptop for browsing) as I read the rules because I was doubtful if we would have troubles with the airlines I wore 4 and my friend the other 4.
TL;DR: wouldn’t make a difference, Expansion bay batteries are not viable, and even if it were there is more than one reason laptop manufacturers don’t use extra batteries any more, for premium laptops they can already pack the max legal (so it can’t have problems with any airline)
So In the end is a tiny space, and if you were able to pack 20Wh in that space that I think could be possible the laptop could put you in trouble if it’s connected and too small to make it worth it against the powerbanks, sorry for repeating myself
So jelly you got to review one. My order is in batch 15.
It's one of those startups I thought wouldn't succeed, though it's still too early to tell.
They're not a startup anymore. The company is four years and three generations of hardware old already. And they're only getting started.
@@spdcrzy obviously with "startup" I'm simply putting emphasis on how it started.
Four years is nothing. There's still a great chance of a collapse, unless they'll become popular enough, and will sustain the popularity. They could easily go down in 10 years for whatever reason. And 10 years of existence is not success.
14:45 just for clarification, the connection could allow for another battery in an expansion bay module and framework has talked about it before as something they may be working on, though it has not been formally announced. however, i believe there are a few community members designing one.
iirc two m.2 slots, a 2280 & a 2230 are on the mainboard.
I've seen several reviews on the Frame 16 and Norm yours is by far the most detailed and descriptive. Your nerd superpower really shines through!
i love all the things you do with adam and the creating, it is however nice to see the channel doing things that it started with .
They have a proven record so far. So I will most probably getting one
I purchased a first gen framework 13 motherboard on ebay for around $200. Used a case design from Prusa Printables, a $79 12 inch HDMI touchscreen, and some DDR memory and NVME drive I had laying around. Built a pretty good homebuilt compact computer from basically recycled parts for less than $400
I love this idea, I may not hop on this round but I seriously hope to see this company make it
I can't wait for more display and gpu options in the future.
So excited to get my hands on one. I hope they also iterate on future versions, like maybe making a case with 3:2 and 16:9 display options but using the same motherboard and all
Only thing i wish norm put more emphasis on was the marketplace but other than that pretty solid video
I ordered my FW 16 last year, in what seems like ages ago.
Anxiously waiting delivery to replace my (2) HP X360 which both have failing keyboards.
Replacing the keyboard in the FW would be like 2 minutes or less. I have had both X360s apart to replace batteries, and saw that the keyboard replacement will be a not so simple job. I will probably do it just to have something cheap to travel with and/or give presentations. But I do not look forward to that time investment to fix them.
I do not see an issue with swapping ports often. I buy it, arrange the ports the way I want, and seldom change, except when needing something different for an unusual condition.
My whole issue is getting that FIRST when on new laptops of other brands, I cannot. Some are not including audio jacks at all. And I need one for sure.
And I need the repair-ability.
I am a BSEE engineer, and IT Professional.
Man , it's almost like a Sandbender laptop 😍
People having their minds blown forget that 60-70 years ago, THIS IS EXACTLY how products were sold. They were INCREDIBLY repairable and upgradable with minimal tools. All you needed were some wrenches, screwdrivers, and incredibly detailed instructions - the last of which companies almost never give out to customers today, and it's incredibly stupid.
Could these guys also start making Phones and Tablets?
I could see this as being quite useful for my field. Sure, hot-swapping USB, display, SD refers, etc. doesn’t sound useful for the average person, but I work in an electrical test lab where we often need to connect to old equipment. Finding a laptop with an RS-232 can be a pain sometimes, or once in a while you gotta grab an extra monitor but all you have is an antiquated DVI or VGA model available. And then, the keyboard… being able to take out a standard number pad and replacing it with a second trackpad to control a remote resistive touch screen, I can think of so many times when a keyboard isn’t quite right. I really hope this does continue, because it is a mil-aero test technician’s dream come true.
Big question though: can the monitor be changed out as easily? If it is damaged, or say you need something that can accommodate a thicker keyboard, or higher capacity battery… I already need to carry around the old Dell Precisions occasionally so I don’t care if it ends up being three inches thick and ten pounds.
The monitor is pretty easy to swap out. The bezel is magnetic and there are just like 4 screws you need to remove. Once you've done it once, it will probably take 15 minutes to swap out. Battery swaps are very easy.
As a sinister character (e.g. southpaw), the left-oriented number pad would be amazing. Also, a number pad without the gap for arrow keys and editing buttons would be convenient.
Very nice! I see on their website they promote installing Linux for the OS. Bonus points for that!
The modularity is super cool if you do wanna swap things around but I agree that won't be the primary use-case. Easy affordable upgrades and a massive reduction in e-waste is definitely the big draw. Additionally the stated ethos of the company combined with easy service by the end user will aid in pushing other manufactures towards "right to repair".
As for the cost, I think you nailed it with the value proposition thing. Hopefully as framework grows (right now they are still pretty small as far as staff and manufacturing output) and other manufactures move into to the space (particularly with designs being open source) the price will come down to be more in line with comparable offerings from other companies.
Framework 16 is gonna be my next laptop, but I'll be postponing on discrete GPU, since the GPUs that Framework offers right now are not capable of comfortably running Starfield. My hope is that in the near future, more powerful GPUs will come out and I would be able to abandon my desktop altogether.
I plan on using it to run Starfield, but I'm used to playing the game at 30 fps as I currently play it on an Xbox Series X. My definition of playable is probably a little different than yours. Still super excited for it.
Your hope of abandoning desktop will never come to fruition. Most game devs simply don't have the expertise on their teams or the monetary incentive to optimize their games (most games today could be optimized to run 400% faster with no impact to visual fidelity). In fact, Nvidia's DLSS encourages the opposite - don't optimize your game and get kickbacks to encourage eternally buying new graphics cards.
@@gamechannel1271 Maybe you're right. Right now I have RX 7900 XT and relatively compact laptops wouldn't be able to come close to that performance for years.
Framework is legit!
I truly, truly wish the Trackpoint were available on this and most other laptops. I have never been able to come to terms with trackpads. In time, I could treat the Trackpoint as if it were really a movable joystick, and found it second nature. I disabled trackpads immediately, if the other option was available. Turns out there are standalone wired or wireless keyboards with trackpoint.
I swear if they make a 2 in 1 with all of these features (or at least most), I'm buying that like my life depends on it
Are the modules in a proprietary format? An open standard for the modules would be great to have.
As far as I know I believe drawings of the modules are available in some capacity. I know the community has been fairly active designing their own modules to fit needs/wants that others have requested.
The STL files for the module housing are free to download, and the USB-C connector specification is already open by nature. So is complete physical compatibility limited to Framework laptops for now? Yes. But you could use any module as a USB-C to whatever dongle on any other laptop and it works just fine.
@@spdcrzy I forget which video it was on LTT where Linus picked up a laptop and went I wish we could have an HDMI and then realized he had a framework dongle.
@@imark7777777 LOL. I remember. It's the ease of use and physical durability factor that makes them pretty damn awesome.
@@spdcrzy yeah. I'm trying to talk myself out from purchasing another laptop looking at that new FW 16, but..... I do need a new streaming computer OBS on the 2019 MacBook Pro is just not cutting it anymore. And Mac OS X is getting buggy features like a ridiculous settings panel and full screen mode that blanks out all other monitors. I seem to be moving to windows and Linux.
16:38 -- 5 minutes? Naw, it took 15 min. Started reassembly at 2:53am/pm (it's on the Apple Watch at 15:59 timestamp) and it was being finished up at 3:08am/pm (16:25 timestamp, you can see the time again on the Apple Watch)
I think I might convince my company to get me one of these
Make a swappable keyboard that bests thinkpad keyboards --- I'm on board. THAT is the most tactile interface for me. Most laptop users are not gamers -- they are the folks that do the work to ensure the "gamers" can try to emulate the gaming power a tower provides.
my next laptop is practically guaranteed to be a framework at this point. i just wish they had this same panel tech in the 13 -- my current laptop is a higher res oled, but i could take the downgrade in the screen for a better device that actually lasts. but going all the way down to srgb sucks.
Maybe it could be a future upgrade? I don't know the details of the video bus, but maybe?
@@PaulJimenez3 there's an option for that happening, yeah, afaik it's a simple eDP connection. but they're also yet to release a touchscreen option and the support for that has been there from day one, so while they have a great track record in general, there's currently nothing in terms of screen upgrades.
Maybe a gen or two from now when stuff gets even smaller they could have a battery bay that had high output to get full power to a GPU/CPU while on battery. That’s would be neat.. maybe to niche to be worthwhile for them.
Love the Interposer idea. I only wish it was screw less
It would have been nice if they put an M.2 slot or two in the empty space on the rear module so you can make use of those PCIe lanes when not using a dedicated GPU.
The Framework 16 would look better, aesthetically, with a larger trackpad and a single piece of metal across the entire palm rest. If the palm rest was one piece the palm area would be stiffer too. Could be an option later.
Any update on this? Are rthey making updated components?
The _fact_ Framework is still releasing audio expansions with a single four-pole is _quite_ the meme. I just don't understand why they can't do a dual-jack connector which enables _two_ people t use a headset with microphone. But i guess with six bays you can either use multiple or attach it to a mixer instead.
Love it when we get a video from Norm
Will they be looking into adding more custom switches for the keyboard? There are low profile laptop switches
I pre-ordered this a few months ago and I cant wait to finally get it in batch 11!
My AMD framework 13 is pretty damn good
Different. The 13 and 16 appeal to different audiences - I found people who want smaller laptops very rarely would buy bigger laptops, and vice versa. Framework is launching the 16 to try to cover more bases
I feel crazy but I'm thinking about getting a framework for running OBS. should I get the graphics upgrade? Should I get the clear keyboard? Will it be powerful enough to take in 4-6 NDI streams? Definitely getting the macro pad I feel like that could work really cool for selecting scenes and having a color indicate which one's active.
You seem to point to the modularity as not being very useful in the sense you don't swap stuff all the time. I think you're missing the point here, I can simply order the exact machine I want, it's not fixed... that's the point. :) And if in the future I get a new monitor without hdmi, I can swap that port. That trick with the LED's is also a very old solution, seen on many computers from back in the day, love it.
As you can with pretty much any laptop today that has usb c, all of those ports are readily available adapters in a proprietary case for the fw chassis
Nice internal design, and looks easy to clean. Shame it only comes in silver, and also that the outer shell seems to have been designed by whoever designed the Tesla truck. I would have literally preferred a plain rectangular case in almost _any_ other colour (black, white, orange, yellow, purple; anything but that plasticky aluminium look).
I wish I could get a laptop, any laptop to last more than five years. Last two I've had, needed upgrades after 2-3 years, to replace aging battery, increase HD and RAM space, to handle newer software. But even with that, they both failed right around the 5 year mark, both with a mysterious "works fine for 20-30 minutes, but eventually will just lock up" failure. Swapping in known-good RAM and HD didn't help, which was about the extent of my ability to trouble-shoot. All the manufacturers would do (HP and Dell) is let me pay hundreds of dollars for a new MB.
Especially these days, with the demands of newer software not increasing at the pace it used to (Microsoft's inane "you have to have TPM installed for Windows 11" requirement notwithstanding), if the hardware itself would keep working, I think a 10-year-old laptop would completely suffice for my needs. But they just don't last that long. :(
I just watched the LTT video then this one comes out 😂
Is there a DisplayPort input available?
yes you can buy display port modules.
Sweet. I do see a lot of potential for this if/when it gets opened up to third parties and mods by fans.
Good thing this company has LTT signed on as their professional fluffer.
@Tested Epoxy Framework Blowup like the OnePlus when????
This is so cool! Can you plug in where the modules go a normal usb c cable as well?
The modules are just normal USB-C adapters in a housing, so yes you can.
LTT did a review of this as well and was dissapointed that the gpu output wasnt a full display port, then realised it was USB-C and the exixting display port module they had could just be plugged into the output on the rear (which isn't showcased in this video).
@@ChiefArug Nice. Cheers for letting me know.
So I have a question for the framework 16 would you be able to put an RTX 4070, 4080,or 4090 GPU in the framework 16?
No it's not supported
The modularity isn't for switching configurations really - except for the odd "Well, I need 2x HDMI or 2x DisplayPort or I need an ethernet jack/SD card reader" for a specific task. Where it really hits home is in the case there's damage to the unit. Lets say the keyboard acts up. Buy a new keyboard. Numpad fritzes? Buy that. Need a top plate because something dented the unit/damaged the pogos? Get that. Hinge goes to crap? They sell them too. Base case gets smashed from a fall - covered. Etc. Etc. Etc. It is the Laptop of Theseus.
I don't like changing machines. I get used to a keyboard layout, screen, system size, etc. The upgradablility is amazing but its the repairability that really hits the spot for me. I've lost too many laptops to wear-n-tear damage - usually due to the use of plastics in places plastics really shouldn't be used, such as hinge anchor points near high-powered processor thermal vents. The premium price is worth it for the fact that I don't have to buy a new machine every 5 years or so because it fell apart on me. And what is also worth it? The idea I could go intel if I wanted to when they release that - go AMD again in the future. Sure, they're probably going to change the design in 5-6 years, I'm fine with that. Who knows though - maybe they'll figure out a way to keep a new design compatible with the current motherboard and module layout - just a better case aesthetic.
Also when I upgrade the motherboard I plan on using the old one in a in-desk-computer build. :)
I expect to see a lot of diy clusters made out of old framework mobos in the future
@@13nillo my nerd heart is still so exited for all the jank new builds
i'm waiting for the 18"
It's such a shame the speakers are pretty poor. Going to need to replace my laptop in the next 12 months and other than speakers it's ideal. Upgradability and repairability is high on the list seeing as I like keeping them as long as possible. Old laptop is almost 6 years old and still works fine, but is showing its age speed wise. Can't even upgrade ram on it :(
Does Framework offer an android cellphone ?
no, but fairphone has a pretty similar ethos
Big fan. Cant wait to see where this leads.
"Up to 100 watts of compute." - SI just called, they want to know why you're torturing their units.
Will there be a frame work 19 ?
🤔😯😮😲😳😍 I love this laptop!
Hope they release a gen 2 oled version then I'm sold
Doesn't even have to be a gen 2, the screen can be replaced in just a few minutes
@@davidboesen4400 yer tbf hopefully they release one you can swap in. Not sure about that keyboard flex either
@@tappD_oot yeah, they said they were looking into it since it seemed to be an outlier, but they haven’t really said what it is though. But according to the emails they sent, they are looking into it and if they find a solution, they will send out fixes to people who already have it by then and it will be applied to all later units
How stiff are the hinges?
they should make the cpu swapable aswell.
Just need a intel Nvidia combo with oled screen and then it's perfect!
I can buy modules?!
You can, as well as every other part.
*FINALLY*
Are the fans very loud when playing AAA games 1080p 60 fps?
The only deal killer on this thing is the speakers. Those little side shooters are terrible
This looks like the engineering of NASA or something like that
It is probably better for the environment but not your wallet new motherboards cost almost as much as a new laptop on its own hopefully framework can get it the price down in the future
i thought on this pc some time, but you can find same spec in cpu & gpu power for 1000$ -1500$ (the 4060M RTX is 5% slower) , and for real you can find onces for cheap, also, getting 16 inch last gen intel, that going for 1500-1800 with 3080 will give you better performance.
at the price of 1 framework, i can buy 2 laptops with same power. or 1 that is much stronger. i am for real dont get why they getting so much love, fixing PC for 200-300$ is nice, but when you paying double market cost, you kind of paying yourself on the parts.
You are bang on the money, the only real difference in their repairability is the fact that they make the info public to do so, they are certainly not better on cost and parts are readily available for pretty much every laptop on the market in many cases cheaper than fw laptop parts. Its a gimmick
the only downside is the price tag
Yeah, but most of the alternatives have all the other downsides as well as the price tag.
One of these days sbd gonna make a dongle to plug in a 4090 for sure lol
Two M.2 slots not one. One is full size, one is the small size.
This is good af