I read the first Harry Potter in the 2nd grade. It started my love of my reading with the help of my Grandma. So, yes it is wonderful in the aspect. I also grew up with movies! I don't think it is perfect by any means but I am extremely fond of it.
I thought you were going to pull a Phil Collins at the beginning 🤣: …feel it in the air tonight. (Oh Lord.) Have you done an update video, especially with the NYT chiming in on this?
I'm such a sucker for a book list, thanks so much for the link to the original Steve. There is so much food for thought there, so many books I've never even heard of, and I've only read just a few. You know of course that there must be a followup video now- the Steve Reads Best Books of the 20th Century - So Far.... What would make your Top 10 from their categories- fiction, poetry, essay and memoir? Hmm, that's only two or three from each, best do 10 from each. We'll be waiting. And I loved The Road! Closed the book, couldn't settle on anything else to read, and reread it straight away.
I found this list incredibly interesting and varied. You’re the first person I’ve ever heard say negative things about Bolano. I was shocked to see how low on the list The Road and Gilead fell (the latter not even technically on this list). No way is McCarthy going to disappear. The Road has been ALL OVER syllabi in this country for a decade now, and it seems to me it’s permanently entrenched there. 🤘As to the list, I think the critics would’ve been better served by assigning weighted points to their choices by ranking, like we’re doing with the Booktube Top Tens Tag. My thinking is that would’ve made a very different ranked list.
I read Bolaño in Spanish and I can't really stand him to be quite honest. I prefer his least popular works like his short story collections (I think they've been all published as one stand alone in English, they were originally conceived as separate works) I don't know, maybe it's a style or language difference, but his writing in spanish is pretentious and subpar at best.
If it weren’t for The Road and Blood Meridian, and the fact that his principal themes (hubristic violence and borderlands) only become more timely with each passing year, I might I agree with Steve’s assessment of his legacy to come. But as is: McCarthy will last and deserves to.
I've dragged myself through every word Bolano wrote, bitterly searching for some reason why his backers praise him so insanely. I found no such reason. He stinks.
On some level, it’s got to be a matter of personal taste and preference, right? I loathe Murakami, but know smart, sophisticated readers who adore him. I revere Cormac McCarthy and Michael Ondaatje, and you dislike their fiction, at best. Each of us prizes and privileges different things in fiction: language, character, form, plot, ambition. I haven’t read Bolano yet, but bought 2666 on the strength of a recommendation from a reader I knew in Missoula, whose taste in fiction really aligned with my own. And the review of it in Time magazine, too, which is only one of two book reviews I’ve ever read that I still recall years later, so awed and precisely written it was.
From time to time,I see someone revisit their "Best Books" list from when they were 20. They usually note the pretension,the awe, and the faddishness among their choices from back in the day.But usually,they also have a still beloved or three among their selections This Vulture list reminded me of that sort of thing more than anything else.
Wow I feel like an idiot. I assumed The Last Samurai had inspired the movie of the same name and was like really? because the movie was meh. Nope nothing to do with movie.
I agree with it being click bait, 1/3 of the books over there can hardly be considered good, but then canon? Don't think so. Would have been a much better list if the title was 'recommended reads of the 2000's ' or something. Anyway, wanted to add a comment about the National Book Award, I was just looking at the translated section and some good titles came up, any thoughts on that one?
Admittedly, My Brilliant Friend as a stand-alone isn’t extraordinary, but the series really surprised me as I continued on, I’m a big fan. Not surprised at all that Didion is here (I loved Year of Magical Thinking too!) everywhere I look she appears popular to read among readers looking to tap into wanting to read more (and get a sweet Instagram pic) at least what I’ve seen with her growing audience of nonfiction fans these past few years.
Well Steve, I think what you said about Harry Potter is the best compliment you have ever given the series especially since you disliked it so much and thought of it as a garbage. 🙂
No matter what I think about the actual quality of the books, I can't deny their results! I can spot a Potter Kid after three seconds of conversation, and I always LOVE talking books with them!
You're right Steve, Harry Potter got me reading properly. On re-read... shithouse... but it got me going and that is what matters, it got a lot of people in my generation reading I think you're wrong on Cormac, his name is known openly around the world in a way a lot of other American writers are not. I can mention Cormac amongst my bogan heavy diesel mechanic mates and they will talk droves about Blood Meridian and No Country for Old Men. I have a feeling when you say he will fade away, you're missing or neglecting a large chunk of readers in that assumption that Cormac will disappear. He is tapping into a class of people, it just isn't the academic class, and it doesn't really have to be the academic class for a book to last. At least not internationally, maybe Americans take more stock in that and there is a cultural divide there. To explain it further, Cormac taps into what a working-class man wants in a book in a way many authors don't, and being a working-class man myself, many forget that a lot of us read, we read a shitloads and we get very sick of flowery shit and just want something that doesn't beat around the bush and has a relatable character, and I don't mean relatable in the sense of just personality, but in the way they go about things. Take Moss (a welder) and Bell (a police officer) in No Country for Old Men, they're quiet and deliberate in every action they take, and the way he goes about writing that is subtle but noticeable to those of us who do similar jobs to the ones those characters do, we relate to those characters because of those small little details, in ways others, for instance like my friend who is a lawyer, just plain cannot understand. Cormac just hits that nail on the head. He also avidly and constantly taps into the anger like many others cannot, and he does it brutally at times. We have Cormac, Steinbeck, Hemingway, Bukowski and Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk. After those, we have fuck all else, books just aren't made for us that much anymore. They preach diversity all the time when it comes to selling books and yet neglect a large chunk of the global western culture, aka us poor fuckers making your dining tables, cars, meat, fruit and veg and packing your shitty goods into boxes for Amazon, for barely any money, whilst getting told we are overprivileged males by every new and "amazing" contemporary book we read. I actually think The Road, however, is nowhere near Cormac's best book and I 100% agree that list is clickbait, but you did make me rant and talk, which I guess was their idea, and yours, so wah lah, well done.
I also disliked _Leaving Atocha Station_ . I thought I was the only one. I cant agree with you about Cormac McCarthy. I guess I am a dude-bro. I like early Hemingway and McCarthy. Ah, well. . . guess I'll have to console my self with scotch and cigars (except I dont smoke cigars). :)
Thanks for the discussion. I disagree about Franzen and McCarthy (and I found Erasure forgettable a feew weeks after I read it back in college) but I 100% agree that Harry Potter isn't going anywhere.
Hello Steve! I have read your lists looking for a particular book I´m currently reading and loving "The Luminaries" by Eleanor Catton. I suppose you liked it since you display it on your shelves. Have you reviewed it?
Steve Donoghue I read Moby Dick just a couple of years ago.. It contains one of my favorite quotes of all time (that I have talked about on my channel before) "..Heaven have mercy on us all-Presbyterians and Pagans alike-for we are all somehow dreadfully cracked about the head, and sadly need mending."
Haven’t watched the video yet, but I’m skeptical that we could establish a 20th century canon at this point. We may be far enough removed to create a canon for pre WW2 lit, but even that is probably doubtful. The idea of a 21st century canon, now, is ludicrous.
Steve Donoghue I think it’s pretty clear I was talking about the subject for the video itself, not about what you said in it. Of the books mentioned, I’ve only read The Road, which is dreadful, but I agree with you that it has a decent chance of being taught and staying in print (and thus might enter the canon). I didn’t know that Harry Potter was being taught in schools, but even if it wasn’t, I think it’s likely that the Potter generation will read those books to their kids, and so it will likely have some legs. But for the most part, I think it’s impossible for contemporaries to predict what’s likely to endure. Ask the question in the early 1900s and I’m willing to bet that Anatole France would be on the list, and I don’t know of anyone who reads him (which says nothing whatsoever about his merits). Kipling would have made the list once, but he’s being cancelled. And Melville would not even get a mention in the late 1800s. He was completely out of print by 1876, and it’s highly unusual that his reputation got revived. I strongly dislike the idea that we can evaluate a book by guessing what people will think about it in the future. Nassim Taleb, in at least one of his books, talks about a kind of literary half life: there is about a 50% chance that a work will continue to remain in print for as long as it has already been in print.
Yes, the "Donoghue Interregnum" goes from 1990, when I returned to this country, to 2006, when I started writing about books again! So there's now a record of my annual assessments extending from 1990 to the present day -
Steve Donoghue Thanks Steve! I searched it and it looks like it only goes back to 1992. No more results are coming up using that word. I’ll try searching ‘1990’ or something.
Maybe a video is in order? I feel very conflicted about it myself. The piece is so odd and I thought Buruma's defense was pretty poor. But I don't know.
I see that Oscar Wao only got two votes, yet when there was a similar exercise a few years ago it came top of the best books of the 21st Century. Are the critics reevaluating because the author turned out to be a bit of a dick? These lists are going to change a lot if that is the case.
I’ve figured that a lot of people going into the topic base on the diverse aspect. Now I’m black and I don’t mind because it’s not my culture being represented here. I like the question you brought up is it about diversity or quality. Now ladies need to consider that by then it wasn’t a lady’s priority to compete with men hence them not entering the canon then. A lady today would obviously be in the canon not because of diversity but because she’s actually good.
In defence of Harry Potter. They were planned and they are a great marvel of planning. It is how to plot a plot. And they are far from garbage. The writing is nothing special, but the story is something utterly brilliant. It repeatedly delivers on drama and does it really well. It follows the great British tradition of such writings brilliantly. And you are someone who likes Dracula! A story far more poorly written and boring.
A great marvel of planning? Oh, I don't think so! The problem with series-planning is that it's very VISIBLE, if it's actually there - and there's virtually no sign of it in the Harry Potter novels, at least the first three, where it would be the most important. But ... Dracula BORING? Good Lord!
Steve Donoghue - Got to disagree. It is a meticulously well-planned story. Virtually every major strand and loop is closed and satisfactorily explained. The story is logical and about every aspect of it makes sense within the world she creates. It is very accurately plotted. It is a graded story - the boy moves through the years at school and the story gets longer and tad more diificult. If you care to disagree further... please do so with actual examples. The "magic" in Harry Potter is the story. This really doesn't mean much to me: "The problem with series-planning is that it's very VISIBLE, if it's actually there - and there's virtually no sign of it in the Harry Potter novels"
@@readingnomad7045 I'm with Steve here, I don't think the Potter books are that masterly planned. Before I set examples, what exactly are the 'major strands and loops'? If say, Snape loved Lily all along(!) is one of them, then it does not stand on its own as masterful planning and plotting since it has zero relevance to the overall plot and is only used in the final book as a last note excuse. The main problem with Rowling's plot in Potter is the overuse of plotting devices (both human and inanimate) & an overabundance of filler and fluff. Count how many times Hermione has the secret answer to move the plot forward. She does it in all of the books; say in Book 2, she just happens to have the final clue to the Basilisk; in Book 4, she knows and teaches Harry the spell to catch the Dragon Egg; in Book 1, she happens to know about Nicholas Flamel just to give some info on plot advancement. The plot fairs even worse to the countless Macguffins. Not only the Horcruxes and Deathly Hallows, but the Time Turner and the potion Felix Felicis are used so brazenly that you can walk behind the stage and see how Rowling moves the strings. The Pensieve is a plot device merely to explain backstory - which is NOT plot (and Harry just happens to notice it in Book 4 & is overused in Book 6 to explain a backstory that matters little to the main plot). The whole, "Oh, but she mentions a particular object in Book X that becomes important later on in Book Y!", does not translate as good plotting. By the time the next book rolls out, the relevance of such object comes out of the blue with an instant explanation on how and why it was important all along. Rowling could use Dudley's Playstation as a Portkey! Isn't that just a great plot-twist? Why didn't you keep your eye on Dudley's gaming console? I'm surprised that Bloomsbury let her release the Potter books so unedited. 90% of Quidditch matches are filler (a good 1/4 of PoA is filler Quidditch matches), Hagrid's giant brother should have been cut, his involvement is pure fluff; some of the lessons serve no purpose to the book's plot (Order of the Phoenix Magical Creature classes are pure filler). The other Hogwarts students that are not part of Harry's gang are there to fill in pages, with no involvement to the story or plot, and any drama with them is inserted to drag the pace. Heck, Ron being angry at Harry on Book 4 makes no sense and is really out of character. But the sin comes to Rowling's denouement(s). She cannot handle well how the final countdown in each book plays. What's surprising about the Mad-eye reveal in Book 4 when a chapter before it Voldemort has returned? Why is Malfoy's scheming reveal crucial to Book 6 when it doesn't matter as Dumbledore dies anyway? Do we really need an obnoxious afterthought future ending to Book 7? I get it, the Potter books came out just the proper season when a generation was growing up (I am part of that generation as well), but I personally do not see the high literary merit that a lot of people are quick to laurel them with.
@@stressedoutofexistence663 Long post. OK, I'll answer as concisely as I can. You are just disagreeing for the sake of it. I don't think even you can misread such straightforward books to this extent! "Snape loved Lily all along(!)" A major theme of the novels is the true magic of Love. And throughout the book Rowling many various kinds of love. Dumbledore's love of HP. Friendship love. Mother's love - Mrs Weasley and Sacrificial love of HP's mother. Love of other creatures - Hagrid and Hermione. Innocent Love. Dobby's love. There is quite the gamut. Yet this love theme is even subtler than this. Bellatrix's blind love for Voldemort. Her sister's love for her son Draco. But the only true struggle is that of Snape. His love for Lily overcame his obvious attraction to the dark side. Snape's struggle plays key roles throughout the novel. I am gonna lose my rag here: but how the hell can you miss that? "it has zero relevance to the overall plot" This is blatantly wrong. I really don't see the point of answering the rest of the post. There is very little point in being argumentative for the sake of it.
Not only has McCarthy got two new novels coming out this year, but Blood Meridian and The Road alone will ensure that he's remembered 100 years after he's dead (if humanity hasn't gone extinct by then). So, wrong on both counts.
A lot of these really should be put in the cannon. Pack them in! I'll light the fuse myself!
I read the first Harry Potter in the 2nd grade. It started my love of my reading with the help of my Grandma. So, yes it is wonderful in the aspect. I also grew up with movies! I don't think it is perfect by any means but I am extremely fond of it.
I thought you were going to pull a Phil Collins at the beginning 🤣: …feel it in the air tonight. (Oh Lord.) Have you done an update video, especially with the NYT chiming in on this?
I'm such a sucker for a book list, thanks so much for the link to the original Steve. There is so much food for thought there, so many books I've never even heard of, and I've only read just a few. You know of course that there must be a followup video now- the Steve Reads Best Books of the 20th Century - So Far.... What would make your Top 10 from their categories- fiction, poetry, essay and memoir? Hmm, that's only two or three from each, best do 10 from each. We'll be waiting. And I loved The Road! Closed the book, couldn't settle on anything else to read, and reread it straight away.
I found this list incredibly interesting and varied. You’re the first person I’ve ever heard say negative things about Bolano. I was shocked to see how low on the list The Road and Gilead fell (the latter not even technically on this list). No way is McCarthy going to disappear. The Road has been ALL OVER syllabi in this country for a decade now, and it seems to me it’s permanently entrenched there. 🤘As to the list, I think the critics would’ve been better served by assigning weighted points to their choices by ranking, like we’re doing with the Booktube Top Tens Tag. My thinking is that would’ve made a very different ranked list.
"No way is McCarthy going to disappear." That is one thing I do not disagree with Mr. Donoghue. He is going!
I read Bolaño in Spanish and I can't really stand him to be quite honest. I prefer his least popular works like his short story collections (I think they've been all published as one stand alone in English, they were originally conceived as separate works) I don't know, maybe it's a style or language difference, but his writing in spanish is pretentious and subpar at best.
If it weren’t for The Road and Blood Meridian, and the fact that his principal themes (hubristic violence and borderlands) only become more timely with each passing year, I might I agree with Steve’s assessment of his legacy to come. But as is: McCarthy will last and deserves to.
I've dragged myself through every word Bolano wrote, bitterly searching for some reason why his backers praise him so insanely. I found no such reason. He stinks.
On some level, it’s got to be a matter of personal taste and preference, right? I loathe Murakami, but know smart, sophisticated readers who adore him. I revere Cormac McCarthy and Michael Ondaatje, and you dislike their fiction, at best. Each of us prizes and privileges different things in fiction: language, character, form, plot, ambition. I haven’t read Bolano yet, but bought 2666 on the strength of a recommendation from a reader I knew in Missoula, whose taste in fiction really aligned with my own. And the review of it in Time magazine, too, which is only one of two book reviews I’ve ever read that I still recall years later, so awed and precisely written it was.
From time to time,I see someone revisit their "Best Books" list from when they were 20. They usually note the pretension,the awe, and the faddishness among their choices from back in the day.But usually,they also have a still beloved or three among their selections This Vulture list reminded me of that sort of thing more than anything else.
Wow I feel like an idiot. I assumed The Last Samurai had inspired the movie of the same name and was like really? because the movie was meh. Nope nothing to do with movie.
Wait... what? I'd assumed this all along as well!
I was expecting The Ministry of Utmost Happiness on that list.
I agree with it being click bait, 1/3 of the books over there can hardly be considered good, but then canon? Don't think so. Would have been a much better list if the title was 'recommended reads of the 2000's ' or something. Anyway, wanted to add a comment about the National Book Award, I was just looking at the translated section and some good titles came up, any thoughts on that one?
Admittedly, My Brilliant Friend as a stand-alone isn’t extraordinary, but the series really surprised me as I continued on, I’m a big fan. Not surprised at all that Didion is here (I loved Year of Magical Thinking too!) everywhere I look she appears popular to read among readers looking to tap into wanting to read more (and get a sweet Instagram pic) at least what I’ve seen with her growing audience of nonfiction fans these past few years.
Well Steve, I think what you said about Harry Potter is the best compliment you have ever given the series especially since you disliked it so much and thought of it as a garbage. 🙂
No matter what I think about the actual quality of the books, I can't deny their results! I can spot a Potter Kid after three seconds of conversation, and I always LOVE talking books with them!
You should go through all your lists with us !
You're right Steve, Harry Potter got me reading properly. On re-read... shithouse... but it got me going and that is what matters, it got a lot of people in my generation reading
I think you're wrong on Cormac, his name is known openly around the world in a way a lot of other American writers are not. I can mention Cormac amongst my bogan heavy diesel mechanic mates and they will talk droves about Blood Meridian and No Country for Old Men. I have a feeling when you say he will fade away, you're missing or neglecting a large chunk of readers in that assumption that Cormac will disappear.
He is tapping into a class of people, it just isn't the academic class, and it doesn't really have to be the academic class for a book to last. At least not internationally, maybe Americans take more stock in that and there is a cultural divide there.
To explain it further, Cormac taps into what a working-class man wants in a book in a way many authors don't, and being a working-class man myself, many forget that a lot of us read, we read a shitloads and we get very sick of flowery shit and just want something that doesn't beat around the bush and has a relatable character, and I don't mean relatable in the sense of just personality, but in the way they go about things.
Take Moss (a welder) and Bell (a police officer) in No Country for Old Men, they're quiet and deliberate in every action they take, and the way he goes about writing that is subtle but noticeable to those of us who do similar jobs to the ones those characters do, we relate to those characters because of those small little details, in ways others, for instance like my friend who is a lawyer, just plain cannot understand. Cormac just hits that nail on the head. He also avidly and constantly taps into the anger like many others cannot, and he does it brutally at times.
We have Cormac, Steinbeck, Hemingway, Bukowski and Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk. After those, we have fuck all else, books just aren't made for us that much anymore. They preach diversity all the time when it comes to selling books and yet neglect a large chunk of the global western culture, aka us poor fuckers making your dining tables, cars, meat, fruit and veg and packing your shitty goods into boxes for Amazon, for barely any money, whilst getting told we are overprivileged males by every new and "amazing" contemporary book we read.
I actually think The Road, however, is nowhere near Cormac's best book and I 100% agree that list is clickbait, but you did make me rant and talk, which I guess was their idea, and yours, so wah lah, well done.
Well! That was quite the rant! I disagree with virtually every word of it, but it's totally fascinating!
I also disliked _Leaving Atocha Station_ . I thought I was the only one.
I cant agree with you about Cormac McCarthy. I guess I am a dude-bro. I like early Hemingway and McCarthy. Ah, well. . . guess I'll have to console my self with scotch and cigars (except I dont smoke cigars). :)
Thanks for the discussion. I disagree about Franzen and McCarthy (and I found Erasure forgettable a feew weeks after I read it back in college) but I 100% agree that Harry Potter isn't going anywhere.
Well I do watch your channel for opinions on books so... delivered😉
Very nice 🙂
Hello Steve! I have read your lists looking for a particular book I´m currently reading and loving "The Luminaries" by Eleanor Catton. I suppose you liked it since you display it on your shelves. Have you reviewed it?
I never did review it, no!
@@saintdonoghue ohhhh
Jonathan Franzen is not boring!
He's a SNOOZER! Buttoned-up, turgid, pompous, and totally unoriginal! And every reader who likes his books is a COMMUNIST!
So, I think I must pick up The Last Samurai right away??? 🙂It's on my shelf at this moment...
Read it right away! Especially since you won't have time in November, since you'll be reading Moby-Dick with ME!
Steve Donoghue I read Moby Dick just a couple of years ago.. It contains one of my favorite quotes of all time (that I have talked about on my channel before) "..Heaven have mercy on us all-Presbyterians and Pagans alike-for we are all somehow dreadfully cracked about the head, and sadly need mending."
Haven’t watched the video yet, but I’m skeptical that we could establish a 20th century canon at this point. We may be far enough removed to create a canon for pre WW2 lit, but even that is probably doubtful. The idea of a 21st century canon, now, is ludicrous.
If you haven't watched the video, you should probably keep your yap shut about its contents, huh?
Steve Donoghue I think it’s pretty clear I was talking about the subject for the video itself, not about what you said in it. Of the books mentioned, I’ve only read The Road, which is dreadful, but I agree with you that it has a decent chance of being taught and staying in print (and thus might enter the canon). I didn’t know that Harry Potter was being taught in schools, but even if it wasn’t, I think it’s likely that the Potter generation will read those books to their kids, and so it will likely have some legs. But for the most part, I think it’s impossible for contemporaries to predict what’s likely to endure. Ask the question in the early 1900s and I’m willing to bet that Anatole France would be on the list, and I don’t know of anyone who reads him (which says nothing whatsoever about his merits). Kipling would have made the list once, but he’s being cancelled. And Melville would not even get a mention in the late 1800s. He was completely out of print by 1876, and it’s highly unusual that his reputation got revived. I strongly dislike the idea that we can evaluate a book by guessing what people will think about it in the future. Nassim Taleb, in at least one of his books, talks about a kind of literary half life: there is about a 50% chance that a work will continue to remain in print for as long as it has already been in print.
Harry Potter annoys the hell out of me, but at least it gets kids enthusiastic about reading. Any thoughts on what would be good for kids to read?
Hi Steve, do you have a record of past lists, even prior to Open Letters Monthly? I’d like to see your thoughts on books from 1990 on!
If you use the search bar on his Steve Reads, using the word Interregnum, the results should give you pages and pages of his prior years favorites.
Liz Schubert Thanks! I’ll do so
Yes, the "Donoghue Interregnum" goes from 1990, when I returned to this country, to 2006, when I started writing about books again! So there's now a record of my annual assessments extending from 1990 to the present day -
Steve Donoghue Thanks Steve! I searched it and it looks like it only goes back to 1992. No more results are coming up using that word. I’ll try searching ‘1990’ or something.
So Steve, you think we will never get to see Mccarthy's The Passenger?
Nope!
@@saintdonoghue Wrong. Being released later this year.
Hey Steve, this is unrelated but do you have any thoughts on the Ian Buruma stuff?
I actually just finished The Corrections and quite liked it. It felt very DeLillo-ish in certain places.
Many, many thoughts on the Ian Buruma situation. Many, many thoughts.
Maybe a video is in order? I feel very conflicted about it myself. The piece is so odd and I thought Buruma's defense was pretty poor. But I don't know.
I see that Oscar Wao only got two votes, yet when there was a similar exercise a few years ago it came top of the best books of the 21st Century. Are the critics reevaluating because the author turned out to be a bit of a dick? These lists are going to change a lot if that is the case.
I’ve figured that a lot of people going into the topic base on the diverse aspect. Now I’m black and I don’t mind because it’s not my culture being represented here. I like the question you brought up is it about diversity or quality. Now ladies need to consider that by then it wasn’t a lady’s priority to compete with men hence them not entering the canon then. A lady today would obviously be in the canon not because of diversity but because she’s actually good.
So rabbit is rich and platform are bad novels? Lol next
In defence of Harry Potter. They were planned and they are a great marvel of planning. It is how to plot a plot. And they are far from garbage. The writing is nothing special, but the story is something utterly brilliant. It repeatedly delivers on drama and does it really well. It follows the great British tradition of such writings brilliantly. And you are someone who likes Dracula! A story far more poorly written and boring.
A great marvel of planning? Oh, I don't think so! The problem with series-planning is that it's very VISIBLE, if it's actually there - and there's virtually no sign of it in the Harry Potter novels, at least the first three, where it would be the most important. But ... Dracula BORING? Good Lord!
Steve Donoghue - Got to disagree. It is a meticulously well-planned story. Virtually every major strand and loop is closed and satisfactorily explained. The story is logical and about every aspect of it makes sense within the world she creates. It is very accurately plotted. It is a graded story - the boy moves through the years at school and the story gets longer and tad more diificult. If you care to disagree further... please do so with actual examples. The "magic" in Harry Potter is the story.
This really doesn't mean much to me:
"The problem with series-planning is that it's very VISIBLE, if it's actually there - and there's virtually no sign of it in the Harry Potter novels"
@@readingnomad7045 I'm with Steve here, I don't think the Potter books are that masterly planned. Before I set examples, what exactly are the 'major strands and loops'? If say, Snape loved Lily all along(!) is one of them, then it does not stand on its own as masterful planning and plotting since it has zero relevance to the overall plot and is only used in the final book as a last note excuse.
The main problem with Rowling's plot in Potter is the overuse of plotting devices (both human and inanimate) & an overabundance of filler and fluff. Count how many times Hermione has the secret answer to move the plot forward. She does it in all of the books; say in Book 2, she just happens to have the final clue to the Basilisk; in Book 4, she knows and teaches Harry the spell to catch the Dragon Egg; in Book 1, she happens to know about Nicholas Flamel just to give some info on plot advancement. The plot fairs even worse to the countless Macguffins. Not only the Horcruxes and Deathly Hallows, but the Time Turner and the potion Felix Felicis are used so brazenly that you can walk behind the stage and see how Rowling moves the strings. The Pensieve is a plot device merely to explain backstory - which is NOT plot (and Harry just happens to notice it in Book 4 & is overused in Book 6 to explain a backstory that matters little to the main plot).
The whole, "Oh, but she mentions a particular object in Book X that becomes important later on in Book Y!", does not translate as good plotting. By the time the next book rolls out, the relevance of such object comes out of the blue with an instant explanation on how and why it was important all along.
Rowling could use Dudley's Playstation as a Portkey! Isn't that just a great plot-twist? Why didn't you keep your eye on Dudley's gaming console?
I'm surprised that Bloomsbury let her release the Potter books so unedited. 90% of Quidditch matches are filler (a good 1/4 of PoA is filler Quidditch matches), Hagrid's giant brother should have been cut, his involvement is pure fluff; some of the lessons serve no purpose to the book's plot (Order of the Phoenix Magical Creature classes are pure filler). The other Hogwarts students that are not part of Harry's gang are there to fill in pages, with no involvement to the story or plot, and any drama with them is inserted to drag the pace. Heck, Ron being angry at Harry on Book 4 makes no sense and is really out of character.
But the sin comes to Rowling's denouement(s). She cannot handle well how the final countdown in each book plays. What's surprising about the Mad-eye reveal in Book 4 when a chapter before it Voldemort has returned? Why is Malfoy's scheming reveal crucial to Book 6 when it doesn't matter as Dumbledore dies anyway? Do we really need an obnoxious afterthought future ending to Book 7?
I get it, the Potter books came out just the proper season when a generation was growing up (I am part of that generation as well), but I personally do not see the high literary merit that a lot of people are quick to laurel them with.
@@stressedoutofexistence663 Long post. OK, I'll answer as concisely as I can. You are just disagreeing for the sake of it. I don't think even you can misread such straightforward books to this extent!
"Snape loved Lily all along(!)" A major theme of the novels is the true magic of Love. And throughout the book Rowling many various kinds of love. Dumbledore's love of HP. Friendship love. Mother's love - Mrs Weasley and Sacrificial love of HP's mother. Love of other creatures - Hagrid and Hermione. Innocent Love. Dobby's love. There is quite the gamut. Yet this love theme is even subtler than this. Bellatrix's blind love for Voldemort. Her sister's love for her son Draco. But the only true struggle is that of Snape. His love for Lily overcame his obvious attraction to the dark side. Snape's struggle plays key roles throughout the novel.
I am gonna lose my rag here: but how the hell can you miss that?
"it has zero relevance to the overall plot"
This is blatantly wrong. I really don't see the point of answering the rest of the post. There is very little point in being argumentative for the sake of it.
May I ask: what is your sexual orientation?
Could you have been more wrong about McCarthy? His novels surged when he died and even finished his novels before he died.
Not only has McCarthy got two new novels coming out this year, but Blood Meridian and The Road alone will ensure that he's remembered 100 years after he's dead (if humanity hasn't gone extinct by then). So, wrong on both counts.
His two new books are utter garbage and only hurts his renown. He's a hack.