I know many viewers will disagree with me on this, and that is okay. Discussion is a good way for us to change and improve ourselves. I look forward to hearing your thoughts! If you want to hear more about Asian Representation in Hollywood, come join us September 18th, 11PM EDT for a live roundtable discussion, featuring Cool History Bros, Asian Representation Podcast, Xiran Jay Zhao, and yours truly. See you there! Link: www.twitch.tv/aznsrep And if you want to know more about the difficulty Asian American actresses were and are facing, check out this excellent video by Be Kind Rewind. Much of this video's talking point regarding Anna May Wong is a loose summary of their video. Link: th-cam.com/video/8mmcvgd8XF0/w-d-xo.html
Be carful where you look for inclusiveness and ethnicity issues in movies funded by Disney, their woke politics are more segregating then what they believe they’re fighting against
to be honest, Shang Chi's friend Katy nailed the majority of Asian-American issues, including Wenwu calling her an American, so I had no issue with Shang-Chi being more of a mainland Chinese immigrant than Asian-American. These 2 balance each other out really well.
@@henryhalliday87 I just found her obnoxious and distracting. Whenever she talked, her voice just stuck out and it cut the flow with the rest of the cast. I also remember from one outside fight scene where she was holding on to the pole(?) and I remember commenting to my friend that I would’ve freaked out more if the pole I was holding onto just came loose and I was holding onto my dear life on it. But I guess you need an annoying loudmouth friend in order to imply that Katy and Shang-Chi are “just friends.”
@@Laura-Yu haha fair enough. I don’t mind her, thought she had some pretty funny moments. She’s also good in The Farewell, get to see a less loud mouthed version of her!
I’m a first generation American. I was constantly asked “where are you really from” after telling people I was born and raised in rural Idaho. As a child, I was told to go back to my “own country” (implying a place on the other side of the planet that I have still never even visited all these years later). When you talk, act, look, or even seem just a little too foreign in America, you’ll get this. Perpetual foreigner. Interesting. I’ve never heard that before, but I can see a million situations where it applies. I have lived in China for the last 12 years. And somehow, being just a regular foreigner in a foreign country seems much less foreign than being a first generation American in the USA being told to go home. My kids were born and raised in China. They’re third culture children. They’re always being told by their peers that they are “from America” even though they have never lived there. Everyone assumes they don’t speak Chinese because they don’t have Chinese faces, even though it’s a native language to them. Everyone has a different set of issues. Thanks for sharing yours.
We are never going to look "white". But "white" is not going to be a majority much longer. And with more Asian American movies on screen and Asians in more schools, workplace and so forth, people can see the diversity even among "Asian faces". Blacks have a bigger population and more years in US, but they gotten their rights less than 100 years. This is going to be a uphill battle. And older white people are not going to give control without a fight and give up their "white American standard" or the privilege white they deny having.
Actually, I got the exact opposite impression of Shang Chi, I thought this movie was about a specific kind of Asian American fantasy or desire, for Asians who was born/grew up in the West and have lost touch with their Asian cultural identity and want to (re)discover it. Definitely doesn't apply to all Asian Americans, but I know some friends that are like that and want to experience living in their parents' home countries to "discover their roots" or something like that. I'm personally more like you and don't have that experience, because I grew up in Asia and moved to North America when I was 18. And I think, in real life, Shang Chi would also not have that experience, because he moved to the US when he's 15-16. This movie is probably more told in the perspective of someone like Katy, who has had a glimpse of Chinese culture within her own family, but never had the full experience. She did feel like a foreigner when they traveled to China, but yes you're right, the story doesn't show how Shang Chi could have felt like a foreigner when he returned, but that's probably because the story is *not* told from his perspective. And I don't think it's made for mainland Chinese audience either, because I don't think they can relate with the Asian American experience. But I agree with you, that this might not be the most relevant Asian American story to tell today. I think its approach is a little too similar to Black Panther. I see that a lot of African Americans might want to discover their African roots (or what could have been if a part of Africa was never brutally colonized), because they feel like they were robbed of that experience when their ancestors were taken as slaves. I imagine that maybe an African person who immigrated to the US when they're older might not feel the same way about Black Panther as an African American whose ancestors were slaves.
I feel like the universal cutoff age for feeling that you’ve lost touch with your roots is about 10, in other words if you move to another country after that your cultural roots will remain intact with you wherever you go
I agree with you about it being like a fantasy or desire fulfilment. I'm half Asian. Asia seems as magical to me as Ta Lo was to Shang Chi. I've never seen it. I've never met the majority of my family. I've only heard stories and seen pictures. When Michelle Yeoh's character welcomed Shang Chi and told him he was a child of their family, I wanted to cry. To be told that you are welcome to join this amazing legacy...it would so wonderful. It's the way I wish I could be welcomed one day
Sorry but black americans are in America right now because of slave trade one that all African states helped not colonization in in fact it is colonization that came much later during the scramble for Africa after slavery was out lawed that result in the end of slavery in Africa don't spread myths
I always answer the where I am from question with: "My parents are from ____ , where are your parents from? " This way I answer their true question, and throw the ball back in their court. Fortunately most people are very happy to discuss what they know of their heritage as well, and it makes it a great conversation starter.
That's pretty cool actually. I always say where my parents are from as well, but I never thought about asking the question back 😅 Could make for some interesting exchanges indeed!
@@doyourownresearch7297 It's not about it being a challenge, it's about it being racist. If you want to know someone's ethnic background, don't ask them where they're "really" from. It's pretty simple.
@@doyourownresearch7297 I concur that in this new age of neo-liberalism, especially in the west, it has come to seem as if people are making mountains out of mole hills. I'm from Asia, I have found it the opposite issue because when I moved to Toronto nearly 6 months ago, people never mistook me as a "foreigner". My incredibly white/western sounding two first names name, along with my native fluency in english brought shock to all who I reveal that I am a foreigner and lived all my life prior to that in a country that did not speak english. The issue comes with the treatment of exclusion and isolation. The very few times I feel different and "alone", it's seldom because of my race but because of my other qualities people are not so readily yet to accept. This isn't racism to me, I'm just not their sort.
"A story about a man being sandwiched between a world that doesn't welcome him, and a world that doesn't love him anymore." -- That would've been sooo good. I think a lot of people were hoping for something like that. That would've been so down to earth and much more relatable to a lot of audiences. While also telling the story of ostracism and being a foreigner in your own country. Edit -- I just want to say that your take on this is soo good. It touches on everything that needed to be said about Shang-Chi and Black Panther. Shang-chi didn't pander enough to Asian-Americans/western-Asians and leaned too heavily on trying to pander to China.
Ironically most mainlanders didn't really like Shang-Chi because they thought it was just half assed pandering and Asian Americans liked it much better.
Mainlanders would have much rather watched the lived experiences of the Chinese diaspora -which is fresh to them- than to endure cringey pandering to wuxia themes. It's as bad as watching the old Hong Kong movies with token white supporting actors.
I think we see what we want to see in Shang-Chi. Shang-Chi represents the 1.5 generation immigrant like myself, who was born in China and moved to Canada at a young age. I can transition fluidly between the two cultures and languages without great difficulty. He was actually the representation I was looking for, because my fear was that they'd turn him into the typical "struggle to connect with his roots" character. I loved the fact that Simu/Shang-Chi transitions between fluent English and Mandarin effortlessly; it sounds selfish but being one of the few people comfortable enough to watch the entire movie without reading subtitles or having to translate sentences in my head made it feel like the movie was made for *me*, a lot more than it was for Chinese from China or 2nd-gen Chinese Canadians. I was fortunate enough never to feel "othered" as a child growing up in Canada though, because my community had many Chinese Canadians, ranging from third or later generation "immigrants" to FOBs and international students. This meant that at any given moment, we could, as a group and as individuals, "negotiate" how Chinese and how Canadian we all were, which made us comfortable in our identity. I think this is the critical difference. Awkwafina/Katy, on the other hand, does represent the typical 2nd-gen Chinese immigrant experience, down to the "name" scene with Wenwu and the disapproval of her mother. I think if she was the focus of the movie, we would get an authentic Chinese American movie in the way that a lot of people understand that to be.
I think that's one of the beauties of the film : it doesn't solely focus on only one specific point of view, but actually show us a broad range of Asian characters, each representing a very specific situation. - Shang Chi is the young 1.5 Asian migrant (like you mentioned) who, pretty much like Simu, came to America (Canada for Simu) from China when he was a kid, and had to adapt to a Whole new world (probably why Aladdin's song is his favorite Karaoke song in the movie), - Katy is the already comfortably American 3rd gen (since we see her granma, and her mom tells her that "granpa didn't come all the way from China to America for you to park cars" and Katy previously told her "don't forget you're an american too"), who starts the movie by being proudly carefree American in front of her friend and her mother, but later, gets her views on life challenged when she's faced with actual stakes and "authentic" traditional chinese elders wisdom (even though the movie could have delved a bit deeper on that), - Xialin is the one who's always lived under authoritarian and mysoginistic China (metaphored by her father), and couldn't escape to a Western country, so she escaped to neighbouring Macau, which, even if it's still technically part of China, still enjoys more freedom than China (I suspect originally, that part was supposed to be in HK, which would have made much more sense, given the amount of legendary HK actors in the movie, but then... being in 2019, the massive protests and police brutality happened in HK, which didn't make production there possible anymore... thanks, China ! So Macau it is), where she could be the badass she ever wanted to be. - Wen Wu is everything that represents one side of modern (and in some ways, traditional China) : Has the ultimate power (the 10 rings in the movie) and is millenia old, and while he loves his children, he's stuck in his old ways and can't change (he even says it himself after his wife died), he is greedy (he conquered everything in the world for a 1000 years), authoritative, does whatever he wants, control freak, patriarchal, doesn't give any space for arguments (and that's not really giving a bad rap to china, it really is how it is in real life, right now), and despites his army of minions, he's very much isolated and lonely at the top of his (litteral) mountain. He's very much the Yin (down to how his compound look, that is almost entirely black, with only one bright colored part in all of it : the wooden dragon sculpture, that seemingly comes from Ta Lo), - Ta Lo and its people, especially the mother and the aunt, represents the "real" traditional side of China : spiritualism, altruism, community and familial bonds, martial arts (especially Taiji), nature, keeping in touch and respecting their roots and their mystical side (including the mythical creatures, like the stone lions, phoenixs, kirins, Hulijins, and of course, the mighty dragon)... They're basically the Yang side of China (when we first arrive in the village, it is sunny, vibrantly colored, grandiose... with the only dark spot of the village being of course the Sealed Gate). And when Wen Wu's arrives, it corrupts everything and toned the whole village in dark gray. So everything, every character, and even every set has meaning in this movie. The more I watch it (I've watched it 3 times, already), the more I can see it. Intentionally or not, it is a very well crafted universe, if anything a bit rushed because of its feature film format (I actually think it would have benefitted to have the luxury of a Disney+ series treatment, so we could explore and dive more deeply into all its themes and characters).
@@jjstarrprod Just said it was interesting as much as I would love for the Communist party to collapse and for there to be peace. I know that's a pipe dream that will never happen because people are greedy.
As a biracial African-American I truly feel the pain and beauty in your words and story. I know what it feels like to be a "stranger" with both white and black people. I hope Disney makes strides to better represent what the Asian-American identity struggle is sooner than later, thank you for your wonderful videos!
"Chinese people watch American movies for Americana" This cannot be more true. They have their own movie industry to talk about their own culture and more specific subcultures. They have really talented directors and producers as well, so why would they watch an American movie if its just gonna show a story they've seen hundreds of times already before? (provided that the movie is authentically Chinese in the first place)
" so why would they watch an American movie if its just gonna show a story they've seen hundreds of times already before? " for the novelty of Americans cattering to their idioms and storylines
Not to mention it’s quite rare that they do a good job of showing accurate and relatable modern Chinese culture - a lot of the times it’s just what they think Chinese culture is about. While part of that stereotype to a certain extent in certain limited aspects can be true, it’s not the whole story and I feel mainland Chinese people (including me) are quite tired of seeing America presenting what they think Chinese culture is
Because they Don't. Chinese audiences are waiting for a good authentic Chinese produced fantasy movie for years but so far they only get movies that are copycats, with cringy armour and Character with Wire flying everywhere.
I’m reminded of some comments Eddie Huang made this year about being third culture. That he’s accepted never fitting in in America or in Taiwan, that his friends and people he loves are is home and that he wishes he saw that sooner rather than looking for a land that doesn’t exist.
@@Legoshi_Vue Lmao STFU, us Asians in the 80's - the early 2000s didn't have a culture to flock to. We would have been called by people like you too white if we practiced our English and listened to Grunge, or too Asian if we just studied and followed our parent's tradition, or too Black if we listened to rap or hip hop.
Riz Ahmed said something very similar in one of his recent interviews! Except he said as an artist he's realised that his home is not Britain or Pakistan. It's not static but his home is the art that he creates and the community that he's found. Very poetic and my paraphrasing doesn't do it any justice. But very resonant with what you wrote about Eddie.
Holy crap, you're over here. Oddly enough, I thought you'd been raised here longer than three years... Really interesting to IMMEDIATELY find out otherwise. Unrelated - Your videos are amazing.
It’s interesting that Shang-chi the movie itself becomes a “Perpetual Foreigner” - Asian Americans find it representing China more than themselves, while many Chinese perceive its representation of China exotic and offensive. As Shang-chi’s release date in China is still yet to be announced, it’s quite possible that it will become a movie that’s made for a Chinese audience, but never released in China.
Why do people keep claiming this was a movie made for Chinese audiences? This movie was never made for Chinese audiences considering it's about the perspective of an Asian American immigrant living in California, and the characters & plot don't really have much to do with native people living in China. And this movie isn't going to be released in China because their govt already filled out their max quota of foreign films to be released in 2021.
I've heard that in the U.K."Asian" was the term used to refer people of India/Pakistan/South Asia origin whilst "East Asian/Oriental" was used to refer people of Chinese/Japanese/Korean origin. The term "Asian" in the States is just so many races coined into one... So I can get why people are unsatisfied by this representation.
"why go so far back into our past to look for stories when we have plenty of stories to tell right here" this one line really hit it home for me. We need to be able to do both, reflect on the past and keep moving forward at the same time, that's how we define our identities as Asian Americans.
"Why go so far back into our past to look for stories when we have plenty of stories to tell right here?" Because they're cool. The now is just a boring world, telling the same thing over and over again. And we lie to ourselves under the word, "representation" when it's just normal people doing normal things like you and I. History on the other hand offers more like Weapons, culture, code, system and traditions But hey, we gotta tell the now, right? Let's forget about the past that put us here in the first place
It's sad I was basically born and raised in America and you have no idea how often I get asked what's it like in China... What did you eat in China.... When are you going back to china? I was like BITCH I have never even been to China never even stepped foot in china. STFU! So sad we are looked as foreigners
When there are so few Asian leads in American films it's easy project all your desires on one single film hoping it encompasses all that you feel is important about Asian American identity, but I think we have to remember that it's just one movie, and no one movie can be everything to everyone. There's nothing wrong with wishing the movie would've been more about one thing, but I don't think that makes it a misstep that it wasn't, because at the end of the day they explored the themes they felt were important. From reading interviews with the director and one of the writers it seems like they wanted to steer clear of some of the Asian stereotypes and tropes that we already see so much in movies. People of color have problems and lives outside of their struggles related to their ethnicity.
I have to disagree. Before I get dismissed, let me say that I am a big fan of this channel and the positions that it presents. And maybe I need to also say that I am Asian American. But when I watched the film, I felt that duality. It's clear, at least it was to me, that Shang Chi was not accepted in America as an American--he retells a story from his childhood when he was bullied for being Asian, he even changes his name to "Shaun" to fit in. But it is also clear to me that he does not fit in well with the Chinese side of his identity, which is clear in his relationship to his father. Katy does not speak Chinese, and that makes her an outsider in the second half of the film. But the film also does something else well, which a film like Rumble in the Bronx does not, and that is: it captures the way in which Asian Americans often have to reconcile themselves to the Asian side of their identity. I as a Korean American who was born here in the US grew up hating my Koreanness because I perceived it as the thing that was keeping me from being accepted by American culture. As I grew older, I had to learn to accept that I am Korean, and that I am forever my parents' child, for better or for worse. I read Shang Chi's journey to China and then to Tao Lo as his process of coming to accept this side of his identity. As his aunt and father tell him in the film, he spent his entire life running and hiding who he is--and while in the film what he is running and hiding from has a specific meaning, I took it as a metaphor that he must come to accept the Chinese side of his identity. There is something similar going on in The Farewell. Also, I have to say that it is not clear from the video what Accented Cinema wants from the film. On one hand, the video criticizes depictions of Asians that exoticize and orientalize them, but then on the other hand, the video criticizes Shang Chi from presenting the title character as normal and everyday. In my view, I could not see a single Asian stereotype in this film: Shang Chi is not effeminate, neither Katy or Xialing are seductresses or dragon ladies, Wen Wu is not a mysterious evil trying to conquer the world, no one is good at math, no one talks about honor, etc. etc. These characters are just people. And if the criticism of the film is that it drew from the mystical for that third act, again, I don't see what the criticism is. This mystical land was presented as something distinct from "actual" China with a history and dignity of its own. So, while I agree with Accented Cinema's criticisms of Asian stereotypes, of the experience of being a perpetual foreigner, I just don't see how those things come out of Shang Chi. It just seems that AC went to Shang Chi wanting to see a different movie instead of seeing the movie that it is. Which is fine. We don't all have to like the same movies.
First of all, I don't think this video is a criticism of the movie. It's only wishing that the movie had explored subjects that are important for Asian Americans, not just pure Asian people. He called it a "nit pick". Other than that, it sounded like he enjoyed the movie quite a lot. You're right that the movie portrays China quite well and doesn't fall into typical stereotypes, but that's kind of the point. He said so in the video. It's made targeting a Chinese audience. But this does not address his thesis, which I understand to be two main points: (1) American movies never portray Asian Americans as Americans, and (2) a Chinese American will not fit in when they go to China either. The parts where Shang Chi was not accepted in America exist, which again, were noted in the video and highlighted as positives. On the other hand, the parts where he did "not fit in well with the Chinese side of his identity" is actually precisely what this video was lamenting. Asian Americans are supposed to be Americans too. Why should we always fit into the Asian side of our identity, but only the Asian side? Where's the portrayal of Shang Chi coming to terms with his American identity, and fitting in with Americans? All of this plays back to the problem that this video is trying to point out with American movies - that Asian Americans are outsiders who will never be American. On the Chinese side of the story, there was practically no problem with Shang Chi just adapting to China. He lives a typical Chinese life with Chinese parents, never rejected his Chineseness, had no struggle reconciling and learning to accept that he's Chinese. These are all powerful things that you said you've experienced for yourself, but the movie basically ignores or only represents metaphorically. When he goes to China, he instantly fits in and starts doing Chinese things with other Chinese people, with no one treating him like a foreigner, which is not the lived experience of Chinese Americans either. That is the second issue that this video is raising: the movie doesn't delve into the foreignness that an Asian American, raised in America, feels when they are in Asia.
My main takeaway from this video is that this is why representation is important. We've got so many white characters in Marvel and beyond that there isn't any real expectation that any given white character will capture the "white experience." But when there's only one Asian character it's natural that many different people will come to the table with different hopes/dreams/expectations, finally hoping to see themselves on screen. Unfortunately, it's impossible for a single character to capture the diverse and multi-faceted experiences felt by millions from different countries and cultures all across the world. I hope that we see more Asian characters in the MCU and in Hollywood as a whole so that maybe with each movie people will feel a little more "seen."
@@letao12 let's face it: no Chinese person would look at your photo and think "you're American", and no American would look at your photo and think "you're American". It's been 200+ years and Asians are still Asians in America. Get the hint yet?
Thanks for making this video @Accented Cinema. As a Hong Kong Chinese person who was born in HK and grew up in Australia, I experienced (and to some degree continue to experience) the things you talk about being an American/Canadian Chinese person. People in Australia still remark on my English being 'good', and my largely Western value sets have been a source of friction with some of my family back in HK (though to be fair, only with one member). I think what bothered me more when I visited family back in HK, was that I was acutely aware that we were culturally different, and even though they made tremendous effort to include me, and the actual language wasn't a barrier (funnily enough, my vocabulary and intonation is that of people twice my age in HK because I learned from my parents), I could see that their experiences, concerns and values were different. Even more interesting is that I could see differences between the views of my parents, who despite having grown up in HK, have lived in Australia almost as long as I have been alive, and the views, value sets and experiences of their siblings in HK. Every culture evolves and moves over time, and the moment someone is removed from it, they start to lose pace. It's not a bad thing necessarily, but something we need to acknowledge - particularly those of us who grew up outside of our 'ancestral home countries'. The fact that we are both neither, and both at the same time is an intriguing experience, and one that largely drove me to do a PhD studying how people can communicate with each other more effectively despite having very different worldviews and speaking different languages. In some ways, it could be seen as a short-coming. Never really feeling like I belonged anywhere means I don't have a patriotic bone in my body. However, I also feel being able to step back and see the world from multiple points of view has made me more sympathetic of others, accepting, and open-minded. I suspect being a 'perpetual foreigner' can make it easier to see people as people, and judge/appraise them based on their character no matter where they're from. Something that's probably harder to do if you grew up in an entirely homogeneous society.
British Chinese here (also from Hong Kong). I've never fit in anywhere either, but it helped that I had friends who also didn't fit in - other children of immigrants. Even friends in university who were immigrants were more relateable, and like you I think it made me much more open, accepting/appreciating of difference and able to see things from multiple perspectives. There's a concept in Decolonial theory called Border Thinking, it's not a physical space but a state of mind intersecting subjectivities, nationalities, histories, cultures, race, class, sex, lived experiences etc. I think people like us inhabit this space.
The quality of the fights may be because Marvel hired Bill Pope (the Matrix) and Peng Zhang (Jackie Chan alum) to do the fights and it shows, I hope they go further in this direction
It was choreography by Brad Allan (who was the Supervising Stunt co-ordinator), one of the member of Jackie Chan stunt team (and sometimes played the bad guy role as well). He choreographed many Hollywood fights as well (Kick Ass, Kingsman). Sadly he passed away during the post-production of the movie.
@@StridingJack425 Uuuuh... have you seen the movie ? The last sentence in the end credits is literally "In loving memory of Brad Allen". Also, Simu and Destin have talked about this on some interviews.
Just my two cents: This is a really interesting perspective to hear, because it was written and directed by Asian-Americans to be a story for, to hear them tell it, an (Asian-)American audience. Shang-Chi was the first-generation immigrant, Katy was second-generation, and between them they show at least some breadth of the Asian-American experience in between the usual superhero stuff. It’s not going to represent everyone all at once - you can also say this about Black Panther and FATWS, the reception of those properties was not unanimously positive among African-Americans - and the entire idea of one piece of media acting as a load-bearing all-in-one example of representation is part of the problem with scarcity; when you’ve only got one mainstream property displaying x, that x has to be everything for everyone. Hopefully in time that problem will cease to exist. Until then, I also hope that they continue to strive for more through the sequels, but at the same time, I have seen sooooo many people, including friends and family, talk about how they feel seen by this movie, and I think it’s done a really great job of opening and widening that door.
I agree on the point of how " one piece of media acting as a load-bearing all-in-one example of representation is part of the problem with scarcity" - nobody expects Iron Man or Captain America to represent all white people. I understand why there are so many expectations on Hollywood projects that aim to represent under-represented groups, be they ethnic or sexual/gender minorities, but the weight of those expectations can crush a filmmaker and said expectations can often be unrealistic. There is a plurality of experiences for anyone who can be classified in any group - Asian-Americans have many different experiences, East Asians have many different experiences, the Asian diaspora in countries around the world has many different experiences. The thing I always say is: the more people from more backgrounds telling more stories, especially in Hollywood and with a platform like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the better.
I think Disney still is apprehensive about "going there" they create stuff that appeals to everyone on a surface level. they skirt with the concept of big ideas. they never go to the deeper level, or pull focus on these real issues.
Um but how about Chinese-Americans who were in California in the 1840s? First generation and second generation still imply they are new immigrants. Truth is, many of their ancestors settled in the country earlier than many white folks
@@larshofler8298 Sure, many Chinese-Americans were in California in the 1840's. My own Chinese-American grandparent was in New York in the early 1900's. This movie wasn't that story, but it was plenty of other people's. As I said in my original comment, between Shang-Chi and Katy, they showed at least some breadth of the Asian-American experience in between the usual superhero stuff. It’s not going to represent everyone all at once, and the entire idea of one piece of media acting as a load-bearing all-in-one example of representation is part of the problem with scarcity. Hopefully this film works to open and widen the door for more perspectives.
I agree 100% because this is one story of one particular person. How can a strorybof one men can represent a whole race when at the end of the day we are all individuals and our starting points in life are diferrent so we are gonna grow up having diferrent experiences. For exemple, shang-chi was born in China, so if someone would ask him where is from he would say that is from China and not Toronto, New York, London or Paris and coming from there, he would never be ask where is it really from. That is the story being told here and we can only hope that other storys can adress the Asian community in a diferrent perspective.
Everything was stated so plainly and logically - I haven't been able to clearly articulate these feelings as an Asian American, and found myself starting to cry while watching this. Thank you for making this video essay!!
What's interesting about this critique is that it wants the film to emphasize the "American" side more than the "Chinese" side, and yet a lot of people nowadays (especially what I'm seeing in the media) want to emphasize their "otherness" to their American side. You will have African/Asian/Hispanic people talking about how they are African/Asian/Hispanic rather than their North American ties.
It's easy to want to emphasize the otherness when your Americaness is not challenged, but for a lot of Asian Americans this is not a given. Like stated in this video essay, you're always seen as an alien "the other" no matter your experiences, so actually being seen and accepted as American is a big deal when your whole life you have been told you're a foreigner.
Probably how since they have been rejected in the mainstream culture, they then seek their identity through differences, therefore making a best situation out of what was dealt to them. That's my pov
I would guess that maybe that sentiment to show off their ancestral heritage to Americans is their way of sticking out above all the white noise that is the “American melting pot” where people from every country and culture in the world exist in the United States.
Perhaps a parallel can be drawn between Steve Rogers' "old world" (WW2) and Shang-Chi's Chinese origin. If so, Shang-Chi's inevitable sequel could deal with the identity issues within the US similarly to how Captain America: The Winter Soldier dealt with Steve's man-out-of-time status.
I think Shang Chi and Crazy Rich Asians gets the criticism more than other movies that it doesnt do a good enough job of representing certain facets of Asian or Asian-American culture. And I think this can sometimes be an unfair criticism. Now, they both touted themselves as movies of Asian representation so maybe they deserve it, but I dont get the feeling that other movies have to capture every aspect of their heritage and diaspora culture so completely. It shouldn't be the job of any single movie to fairly and accurately capture all of those experiences. Shang chi choose to focus more on the parent-children conflicts. And maybe I'm reading too much into it, but isn't that something the Asian diaspora resonate deeply with? Not that other cultures and ethnicities don't also have parent-children conflicts, but it seems to be a running theme through the Asian experience, especially in the west.
No one thing can capture all things, Americans have to understand that, starting with their country. It doesn't, won't and can't capture, represent and summarize all of human experience and diversity
Crazy Rich Asians had a scene in Singapore. There isn't Malays nor Indians in there, misrepresenting its multiracial demographic Shàng Qì had a scene in Macau, Hong Kong yet not a single Cantonese was spoken. I'm aware there are Mandarin speakers in Hong Kong but the lack of Cantonese is just shameful catering to the China Communist Party
Yeah but the reason why Black Panther could do it was because it used elements already discussed in media and internal discussions. When have Asian Americans made those discussions prior to these movies or that Spa shooting; or those commonplace Asian jokes in middle class suburbia? Black people have mediums that talk about this and there isnt enough Ronnie Changs speaking about it. There isn't enough 'Crazy Rich Asian' movies or 'Paper Tigers' talking about their issues from their perspective that isn't tryi g for a 'gotcha' moment
I think Shang Chi is greatly influenced by films like Hero, House of Flying Daggers, and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. They are widely praised by western audiences. However, from Chinese people's perspective, they are exactly made for western market . They are "inspired by the hall of- " in a good way. But in the other hand they differ from how Chinese films present their own culture.
2nd generation Asian American here. This video helped me under why I related more with the first half of the movie than the second. I definitely enjoyed the part of the movie that focused on the Asian American experience. Thanks for making it clear to me!
As a Quebec native and a French speaker, I'd like to start with an apology - no matter how empty this might seem, after all these years. I'm not one of those who said stupid crap like this to you, but being disabled, I'm familiar with what happens when you stand out. The older I got, the more I realized that in some parts of the province, there's a pervasive inferiority complex that pushes some people to aggressively step up to whomever happens to speak something other than French. I've seen cab passengers yell at their Israel-native drivers for speaking Hebrew on the phone, seen Karens yell at Haitian Canadians for speaking Creole amongst themselves... I don't think there's much that can be done for the older generations, locally, but Millennials and younger ones can still turn this around. Protecting French's status in the province shouldn't be synonymous with bullying someone who uses a different language in more personal situations. I'd understand using French around the service industry or just to get around in more francophone corners of the province; but beyond that, which language you choose to use is really nobody's business.
Hey, as a first-gen half-Taiwanese (and recently disabled lol gotta tick all those boxes) who moved to Montreal, thank you for saying this! I've been on the receiving end of some racist stuff (the classic "Go back to your country," for example) but I'm able to verbally defend myself in QC slang that can catch people off-guard ("Crisse-moi la paix esti, j'habite icite." -- lol). It is way way WAY more frustrating and hurtful when I'm out and about with my mother who is Taiwanese with English as her fourth fluent language but pretty much no French although she tries her dang hardest. Even before she opens her mouth, people openly mock her, speak down to her, infantilize her, judge her, take advantage of her, and shoot her dirty looks or elbow her out of the way. And she always just smiles without protest. Fortunately, there have been some incredibly nice French Canadians like yourself who she has met along the way who help make QC feel like a nicer place to be. (: Thank you for your optimism about the new generation, and being understanding towards both sides -- the importance of French but not at the expense of bullying others. Que la nouvelle année t'apporte paix, santé et bonheur!
@@tigerlybalm À vous aussi, évidemment! Bonne année! My go-to for weathering toxic comments mostly amounts to reminding myself that those involved likely don't know what they're talking about. I've seen some of the more backwoods corners of the province, and I'll admit us Frenchies are great at compiling info partially or filling gaps with biases. Again, that's an inferiority complex at work. Where it gets really freaking weird is when you're cussed out by a guy in Jonquière whose only real beef against you is that you're from Montreal, LOL.
Tu n'as pas à t'excuser, l'obsession du français au Quebec se comprend historiquement, pour les raisons que tu sais probablement déjà. Donc c'est pas la peine de trainer dans la boue ta culture et ton histoire pour un commentaire négatif sur notre prétendue intolérance. Pour les québécois comme pour les français, c'est l'assimilation qui compte, et ça passe aussi par le fait de parler la langue. C'est notre culture, les autres devraient la respecter avant de nous ordonner de respecter la leur.
@@billmurray7676 J'abonde dans votre sens, mais reste qu'il y a tout un spectre entre le fait de s'attendre à un minimum de respect et l'intolérance crasse de certaines personnes. J'apprécie toujours le fait de voir des gens fraîchement immigrés se casser les dents sur le français - ils vont y arriver avec quelques efforts - mais je ne suis pas aveugle pour autant. Pour certaines tranches d'âge ou communautés culturelles, s'attendre qu'elles adoptent le français relève du voeu pieux. C'est le fait de voir ces personnes se faire marginaliser ou insulter ouvertement quand on sait que passer du Dari au Français à 87 ans est un exploit en soit, qui me dérange.
@@McSquiddington Les gens qui aiment être méchants avec les autres trouveront toujours une excuse (chinois, binoclard, gros, rouquin, etc) et il n'y a rien à dire qui pourrait leur faire changer d'avis. Certainement pas chialer sur internet ou chercher de la "représentation' dans un film. Je suis conscient que le modèle assimilationniste est exigeant, mais il fonctionne. Mieux en tous cas que le modèle américain, je pense. Une bonne partie des problèmes en France viennent d'ailleurs de l'abandon de ce modèle, et on voit progressivement un peuple uni (malgré les différences d'origine) devenir un pays de communautés. Je trouve ça triste. Plus le temps en passe, et plus j'ai de doutes sur la valeur du multiculturalisme.
Hi Accented Cinema. I am a sophomore in a 60% white high school. with 11 years of experience in China. I watched dShang-Chi with my ABC friends and found out I was the only one who recognized Jiuweihu, Qilin, DiJiang, and Zhujiuyin in the film. But that was okay. While my other friends cry in the end, I did not cry. Because I was debating over whether this is another Mulan (stereotyping Chinese culture by being too obvious) or a good movie but not attractive to the major public because the identity struggle is too vague. So I ran back home and spent 5 hours writing a journal on Bilibili, saying things you should understand before watching Shang-Chi. I talked about how we need to let go of conspiracy and beauty standards (mainly awkwafina) because they have been westernized and they are harming people. I talked about how good the water effect and the ShenShou were. I talked about how the fighting scenes are awesome and how you should think it as a superhero movie. Then I got blackmailed and threatened and called as an American spy/outsider/whitewashed Marvel fan/a person who sold her culture & dignity. Then I truly realized the struggle between the two worlds. This also happened when I was back in China for vacation this Summer, and wanted to discover more no the Zhengzhou flood (since it is my hometown), but was shut away by my own father because he thinks I'm showing bad information about the Chinese sewage system for western entertainment. I cried a whole lot hahaha... anyway. Please do not worry about my mental health, because the blackmailings are childish plays and pathetic actions in my eyes. I just want you to know. I did not cry watching Shang-Chi, but I cried watching your video essay. Thank you. I may keep being that perpetual foreigner, and I still do not know what to do. However, I will keep chasing what I desire...
Because its who you are and anyone outside of this culture or race may not know where your origin is from. Unless you'd rather be more and more western so western ppl can see more as them?
To me, "Why go so far back into our past to tell good stories?" Cos it's cool. Things now are boring. We see them almost everyday. Zatoichi and Kenshin are my favourite films and is by definition, an example of Asian Representation (Asian media made by the people who know their stuff and what they are doing) in fact, The reason why Japan is associated with Ninjas and Samurais because not only its part of their history, they also made them in their kabuki theatres! So why go so far back? Simple. Because it's cool That's just one famous example
@@1eyeddevil929 I second that. There is nothing wrong with social realism, but I feel like life is more than just representing the current, factual state of it.
Love you, Accented Cinema. This exactly. I was hoping they’d capture the duality of the Asian American experience, but barely explored any of it. The first half of the movie is superior to the second for a martial arts flick, but it could’ve been more. The only moment I can think of was when WenWu talks to Katie about her name at the dinner table. Felt like a moment taken from my own life when talking to my aunts/uncles. Maybe it’s my fault for expecting this exploration from a Marvel movie, but also, why shouldn’t we expect this? Enjoyed the movie and loved Tony Leung, but felt it was missing something. I think you nailed it.
@washima uan Killmonger's story was exactly about that racial issue of black men in america, and his story as a contrast/foil to T'Challa's was the central thematic conflict in the movie.
@washima uan I mean black panther wasn't just about an African man becoming king. If it were like that it'd be like the original comic stories and prob just been a revenge for my dead dad superhero story(not a bad story, just not the explicitly racial one we got) I mean what they want is just the equivalent of an African person wanting their normal lives being represented more in BP(a movie where you see women getting kidnapped outside of Wakanda once and the rest takes place in that fantasy land, no real inbetween).
MCU is about making superhero movies. All the extra issues that might be addressed are extras or toppings in the films. This is not a drama about race or immigration or generational differences even if some of the themes are in the movie.
@@brianng8350 And what exactly makes for a compelling superhero movie to you? In my view, and it's been stated by Marvel filmmakers, is that they center on very human stories. They involve a central conflict with nuance in which the hero must navigate and fight against injustice. The entire premise of X-Men is the issue of civil rights and LGBTQ+ rights later. Iron Man's origin story is about the military industrial complex and state surveillance/overreach later. If we just take superhero movies to be superpowered individuals beating on grimdark villains/monsters over and over again... it gets pretty boring real quick (looks over at DC).
A lot of people are judged for who they aren't instead of who they "are". It's a pedantic difference but one that illustrates the culture and many Asian American lives. Authenticity should always be prioritized over pandering in media and I appreciate you for pointing it out.
Not a pedantic distinction at all. I think it's really apt. Dominant cultures often understand/describe members of diaspora communities in the qualities they lack.
I’m a Chinese international student currently in Montreal, I can totally understand the struggle of the Asian community in North America. However this film is not appreciated back home cuz the predecessor of Mandarin is the notorious fumanchu, considered a character with an insulting connotation to China, and he is Chinese. The whole concept of the film to those who don’t know is kind of like the Asian American son revolting his vilified Chinese biological father in order to convert to America. As a result, this film is not gonna help local Chinese people to understand the struggles within the Asian community(it doesn’t show it much anyway) but even worsen the perspective of Chinese people on Asian Americans who r so hyped about the film. It’s sad but it’s true.
I think the overt exoticism angle you mentioned got amplified thanks to the fact that in this universe, Shang's mom was literally from a magical realm of Chinese myth and magic, and his father was a mortal man who gained immortality thanks to supposedly alien artifacts. Though one really cool note is that in the end of the movie, Shang uses a mix of his mom AND his dad's fighting styles, which was neat visual storytelling and the fact that the movie didn't even say it outloud was a nice subtlety for a change in modern Hollywood movies.
I really enjoy the choreography. You can see Shang-Chi uses the Bajiquan elbow strike on the bus fight. Later in the film, his father would uses the same attack against him. There are a lot of stories hidden in the choreography, definitely the best part of the movie.
@@AccentedCinema Can you also talk about the whitewashing of Asian characters in Hollywood? Can you also talk about the Eurocentric view of the world that affects representation of East Asians in the media. Can you also talk about the double standard of how people refuse to acknowledge the fact that Son Goku from Dragon Ball is Asian (specifically Chinese) despite being an Alien just as much as how Superman is a Caucasian man who happens to be an Alien, and how people refuse to acknowledge this fact in regards to Goku. I keep seeing people also say "Don't cast an Asian person as Goku, it doesn't feel right. A white guy or a Latino would do the trick. Besides, Goku is an Alien and the world of Dragon Ball doesn't have the cultures and traditions of our world. There are no blacks, whites etc. It's just a fantasy world. So Goku being a white dude isn't such a big deal. The only Asians are Chi Chi, Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Yajirobe. The Saiyans look more European to me, plus they are huge. Hugh Jackman would make a great Vegeta."
If Marvel depicts a more realistic China, there's no way they don't get called out or cancelled by the Chinese. Though, they hate this version we have in Shangqi as well.
@@AccentedCinema Can you also talk about how Anti SJWS where threatened by the idea of Shang Chi succeeding? And how on earth these people watched Kung Fu films and anime when they hold such biases towards Shang Chi.
@@kenshix7902 Dude a This point you should make the video and talk about it I mean you already wrote the script 😂 seriously tho why would you want to watch a video that already repeats what you believe?
Absolutely fantastic video! A fascinating insight into a cultural perspective I could never experience myself. As a German myself, I frequently am the foreigner in online circles, but that is exactly it; as soon as the screen turns off I am back in cultural comfort. Having to struggle with the negatives of being perceived foreign is something I only deal with in spaces I can turn safely off, hearing how it feels for someone who experiences daily in real life as well definitely helped give me a broader picture on those who live in that situation.
@El Negro I think this is the point where I'm starting to loathe these essays, because with examples of Anna May Wong, and learning Lucy Lui got a star on the Holly wood walk of fame has me like:"Why am I learning this crap now?" It's irritating, as I feel I should've known about these things before this.
I agree it would have been very interesting and relatable to see how Shang Chi's treatment between the two societies affected him in the film. I grew up in rural America, American Chinese. Half Chinese, with a deep passion for Asian culture and a good understanding of western culture. To be honest, I never have felt part of either society completely, Asian or American. No one has been outwardly rude to me (minus some jokes), but it has been strange going into a grocery being the only Asian or even going to Chinatown and being seen as a foreigner...or not a "full" Asian. Now I am studying Japanese and planning to live and work abroad. Whatever may come, I always remember that I have a place with my friends and family, and the people who see me for who I am is enough. Great video.
I think there's a balance to be struck between movies that address the issues Asian-Americans face, and movies that are about other things entirely but feature Asian leads. There's only so much you can fit in 120 minutes, in my opinion.
Yeah, as an asian american, I really don't want another immigrant movie about "bUt wHeRE Do i bELoNG??" Representation doesn't mean shoving diaspora identity issues into every film lol
@@aidilmubarock5394 Off the top of my head? All the most recent popular movies featuring asian leads. The Farewell was especially good. If you like musicals, In the Heights recently came out ft latin american immigrants. If you like TV shows, several episodes of Kim's Convenience. Chances are, if there's a non-white lead actor, the movie/show will probably have "perpetual foreigner" themes. If you don't see them, you either rarely watch non-white movies or need to get better at examining the content ur watching. Probably the former tbh, movies with non-white immigrant leads rarely make it big, but when they do, it's usually about how they're an immigrant. Like thanks, but can we have some variety now. It's like how every gay movie that came out for years was about homophobia. Clearly homophobia's a huge and real issue for the gay community, but it's nice to just watch a movie that's just a gay lead doing ANYTHING else than *struggling with the homophobia.* I didn't like Call Me by Your Name, but at least it had that going for it.
I wear tzitziot (fringes) on my waist, which is typically an orthodox Jewish thing. So a lot of people ask me who I think is gonna win the world series.
As a first gen Asian American, I had a mixed feeling after watching Shang chi. While I recognize the importance of having an Asian superhero, I always felt the movie was just another extension of the Kung Fu trope Hollywood has long pigeonholed Asian community in. It does very little to represent the Asian American experience as you mentioned. I loved your analysis of Black Panther and Winter Soldier's poignant narratives to highlight the social and systemic issues facing the black community and agree with you in this aspect, Shang chi feels like a missed opportunity by comparison. While martial arts is certainly a proud part of the Asian culture, it is time for Hollywood to expand their perspective and paint a more nuanced and realistic narrative of the Asian experience. Luckily for us, one such film just released in theaters, Blue Bayou. Not only does the film highlights an importance social issue within America, it also features an Asian lead that is completely original, incredibly complex, deeply flawed, and instinctively human. This is the type of boundary pushing representation our community need and deserve. I hope we can support it with the same enthusiasm as Shang Chi.
Hollywood tries to chase two types of films in their Westerns and action movies: Wu sha and Samurai basically they see how successful Akira Kurosawa and John Wu movies are and constantly try to replicate their magic.
I grew up watching Jackie Chan's movies on TV, his fights we're so amazing and satisfying in a way that "blockbuster movies fights" never felt. Now that you explained, I know why. I got out of the theatre mesmerized and so satisfied with the fights in Shang-Chi! You can't, you won't move your eyes away.
I was raised as a third culture kid in 27 countries growing up. Now I live in the country of my birth but I’m still an outsider to many and to myself. Americans in particular, but many natural citizens that never travel are very blind on what it means to be a foreigner. Thank you AC for speaking straight to my heart like always.
Not Asian but I have also had the exact same "where are you from?" "Montreal." experiences so a lot of what you said hit close to home. That said I'm not sure I agree entirely with you. There's definitely a potential you're entirely right. But my impression was that the filmmakers wanted to show a variety of Asian experiences. If we focus just on Shang Chi, sure that's arguably the narrative arc. But, and this is incredibly oversimplified, his sister is clearly less American than he is and he's less American than Katy. That's part of the reason I loved their meal with Wenwu, and not just because Tony Leung, but because here's this variety of lived experiences that overlaps in some areas but not all. And the parallel could easily be Isaiah and Sam. They're both African-American men, they're both superheroes, vets and they have radically different world views from their different lived experiences. They talk more than once, they never fully agree, but they don't have to. They still understand each other and respect each other. Too often there's this oversimplification you really about where everyone in a racial group must be a monolith with no chance for nuance. The only way to avoid that in a movie is to have as wide a variety of characters and beliefs as possible. Another thing Black Panther did so well was all the differing opinions. Even Nakia and Okoye disagreeing was amazing. Two women, both African from the same country and they're allowed to have a respectful difference of opinions. Shang Chi might not have been as overt but it was similar. And while I definitely agree with what you said my take away is that this was more origin story rather than what we're going to see from Shang Chi going forward. Trying to avoid spoilers but the end makes me think he and Katy have gone full circle. They've changed, grown, but are still fundamentally the same people who want to do the same things they did before. I'd be very surprised if the next time we Shang Chi he gets another mystical Chinese adventure. He might stop by for a visit but my guess is we'll be getting a West Coast Avengers movie with Shang Chi and Katy along with Scott and Hope or maybe Cassie and Kate. Maybe I just have hope since I was mildly terrified by the original announcement, Shang Chi was not a good comic. And if I'm wrong I will hunt down this comment and admit I was wrong, just really hope I'm not going to have to.
Yeah I do think the film has a lot of potential. The characters do indeed feel like various Asian Americans. My problem is that this is just background details, and not explored in any meaningful way. This is also the reason why I'm kinda excited about the almost guarantee sequel. All the potentials are there, all the characters have been established, there should be a lot more room to play with.
@@AccentedCinema I have been following your channel recently as I was quite intrigued by your breakdown of films in such a technical way yet very digestible and sensible for laymen like myself. I was in fact hoping you would do one for Shang Chi as well but I honestly didn’t expect that you would go the opposite way of what (at least anecdotally and the raving online reviews) most people (particularly those of Chinese descent) think about the film. But then again, your perspective has been largely formed through your growing up years of being a minority in your neighbourhood and I guess that’s one key factor that is driving the difference in our opinions. That being said, I thought I want to share a perspective that might have been missed. To me, what this film is is that it is one that is mostly trying to explore Chinese culture (from Act 2 onwards) in as authentic manner as possible, and as beautiful and breathtaking as possible, with the latest technology and the most talented filmmakers that Marvel has in its arsenal. And I think it has succeeded and even exceeded their own expectations in a way that led them to miscalculate the relationship with China. You see, from China’s perspective, the huge success of this film, and with a cast of mostly very successful Chinese diaspora, is a shameful reminder of China’s failed economic policy during its early formative years under the CCP, which had led to droves and droves of Chinese folks migrating out of the country (my grandparents included). Furthermore, an old interview video of Simu which has recently surfaced saw him talking about how his parents had left China because at that time it was a third world country. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disagreeing with your view point- I’m just putting it out there that there are different perspectives by different people depending on the context. And right now, in my estimation, it seems like your view point will be dwarved by those who will hate it because it will remind them of China’s failed economic policy, and those who actually see it as a successful and authentic showcase of Chinese culture, which is not only carried by the Chinese people in mainland China, but also the wide Chinese diaspora across Southeast Asia (where I’m from btw) and Taiwan. My two cents, if you don’t mind. And I still love your content!
Hey, let me first start by saying that I genuinely love all your videos. So many of them are clear, informative, funny, and full of heart. What I want to offer to you though, is another perspective. Like you, I moved to Canada in my teens, well, late-teens anyway, for university, in my case. I absolutely understand the experience of being a perpetual foreigner. However, I think that there are actually 2 (broadly speaking) immigrant experiences. One is of those who move to a new country with a rich set of experiences in a different one and the other is of the immigrant who actually never immigrated, their parents or grandparents did. I think for second and third generation Asian Americans/Canadians, this movie hits just right - even if it doesn't quite hit right for us 1st Genners. And that doesn't even begin to discuss third culture kids and what their experiences are like. I think for me, this movie isn't about racialised Chinese Americans/Canadians, it's about a relationship between a father and a son, and to some degree his daughter. I don't think that this makes it a better or worse movie than Black Panther, I think the films are trying to do 2 different things. Shang Chi did so well, I think that future films will have the opportunity to comment more deeply on the racialisation of the Asian American, but that's just not this film. I actually enjoyed this film more than I did Black Panther - and that's not to say there's nothing I'd improve on. Thanks for another thought-provoking video essay.
oh another though hit me just now. Shang is less either of the two aforementioned categories of immigrant as he is a refugee of sorts. There's some overlap between his experience and that of the North Korean refugee. Just an additional element to throw in to the mix I think, which might explain his longing for his first home - which to be clear, isn't actually China, it's family, which in this case, just happens to be in China.
As someone who is a 3.5 to 4-generation Chinese Canadian (my mom's parents immigrated, and my dad's great-grandparents immigrated) I relate to what you said a lot. For me, I am Chinese-Canadian, but I am Canadian first and Chinese second. I connect with my Chinese roots, but that identity doesn't play as big a role for me as it does for other people. Having grown up in Ottawa, I know far more French than I do Chinese (Mandarin or Cantonese). I grew up in a community that had its fair share of a lot of different people groups, and I never felt "othered." I suppose I was privileged in that regard. I don't think that Shang Chi was supposed to talk about the Asian-American/Canadian experience, so while I can understand that criticism, I do think it's somewhat misaimed.
@Accented Cinema I am behavioral therapist in LA county. I recently started working at a Chinese Immersion school. I am the first non Mandarin speaking specialist working with autistic kids. I love it!! We have an African American Women Principal working alongside Asians, Hispanics, Caucasian. Since these kids are a blend of Asian and American cultures. The little 6 year old teach Ms. Laura that mom may be Mandarin bc she was born in China. But dad is Asian bc he is from here. So when i asked if he also was Mandarin she looked at me like "duh, I just said he is Asian who is .American ". She taught me so much that day. Thank you for your channel since i am a lover of any expression or understanding of self through cinema.
I loved the movie but I can't really disagree with any of your points except how heavily to weigh each point. The Shang-Chi team has made a fantastic origin film for Shang-chi. Really concentrating on how he is his father and mother. I think a natural flowing point both narrative and thematically is to explore Shang-chi's American side in the second movie and how he takes what came before and makes it his own.
Yeah wanted to say this too. I think juxtaposing Shang-Chi with Black Panther is worthwhile. For myself, I'm happy with direction they took the movie, I didn't need a retread of Killmonger's story arc with a sepia filter (kekeke). But seriously, I feel like that direction might have resulted in an awkwardly executed where they just superficially swapped one oppression story for another and that would've been a disservice to everyone involved. BP centered on a vision of an African nation/culture that wasn't devastated by colonialism and actually possesses greater power*, which demanded a comparison to the alienated and often disempowered/oppressed experience of African Americans. That's not so much the context with Shang-Chi and China as it exists today. The Asian-diaspora experience is distinct and certainly worth exploring further... how you'd represent it is an interesting thing to unpack. The hallmark and authentic approach is one of more subtle subversion. Where the civil rights movements of the 60's was characterized by marches and loud speeches (in the most inspiring way possible), Asian-American stories have centered around not rocking the boat in order to achieve success later and creating our own spaces. And it's this approach that has been criticized more recently, with reasoned demands to "get loud". Which in turn leads to borrowing and potentially appropriating black anti-racism aesthetics... it's a fascinating intersection... I guess we need to see a team up between Black Panther and Shang-Chi!
That’s a good point, the film will naturally lean more heavily of shaun’s Asian heritage as opposed to his American side since this is the story of his past. The video makes a lot of good points and I agree with them, but there’s only so much u can put in a 2 hour movie. Hopefully we get to see more of the Asian American conflict in the next movie
I think that it's worth recognizing that this is an MCU film where the hero has a living parent, on screen, in the present. There's only one other MCU film where that's true. In my opinion, that's honestly a sizable concession from the superhero genre.
I feel like Shang-Chi bit off a little more than it can chew and as much as I love it, it was almost a little too full/ambitious. And RIP Brad Allan, who brought the beautiful fight choreo & cinematography of Jack Chan to the MCU.
@@helpraznidentitystopanti-a3946 captain Marvel was pretty empty. That film definitely played it "safe". The captain america films had just the right amount of content and told the story they wanted to tell. I'd even put the first Iron Man, and The Incredible Hulk up there for films that accomplished exactly what they wanted to do without feeling like they were trying to do too much, nor were they missing anything.
I think huge gamble is a better word than too ambitious. I think the ambition is a good thing. It's the gamble Shang Chi takes because China/Hong Kong are known for producing numerous Kung Fu / Martial Arts movies. Then we have to look at the misconceptions many have as if Disney/Marvel is trying to make a better Chinese movie than China could make. Longtime Martial Arts fans should not expect Shang Chi to be any better than classics like Fist of Legend or Drunken Master 2 . What we should look for is entertainment value and how refreshing it is as a new movie.
I feel this hard. I think the best handled example of this topic I’ve seen was the episode in Bojack Horseman when Diane visits Vietnam. Everybody sees her as a foreigner, from locals, to even other American tourists. I think you’d love that episode and it would even make for a really good follow up video to this :)
Think the scene where Wen Wu addresses the name of Mandarin did it well and Shang Chi talking about when he was young how he got bullied and Katy protecting him, but ofcourse it aint as big as Falcon and winter soldier. But it also hard to have written it with Asian Hate crime to be a thing in the Marvel Universe as there isn't something leading to it, plus on purpose have a sudden racist scene for sake of racism has become quite a stereotypical thing that happens in a lot of shows and movies, the problem with many of them is that they make it as if being racist to Asian is just too casual. Also I don't think this movie would had been the place for such a message and there be better movies ahead they could tackle this issue.
I do love the "asian american" part of the movie, when Shang chi just hanging out in San Francisco with Katy. But I also love the old kungfu movie vibe when the movie goes full gear. I don't think it's a bad thing at all
I thought it was pretty decent but the most stellar example of showcasing the Chinese sound in a pop culture soundtrack I've heard so far is the Liyue section of the Genshin Impact soundtrack scored by Chen Pengyu. If Disney-Marvel could somehow get their hands on him to do the score, it would be amazing.
This was some really good perspective I hadn’t considered before. Honestly, I feel like this film almost “had” to be this way, just because of how common the “finding your roots” trope is with asian films. They set that one up right out of the gate. But, it does mean they got that out of the way. I’m hoping that the next film then tackles Shang-Chi having to integrate the asian-ness he’s recently come to terms with with his American-ness and how he has basically just been recruited by a diverse, multi-dimensional superhero organization.
Or how about we skip the whole race and ethnicity struggle theme and actually tune into the problems Shang Chi may have as A MARVEL SUPERHERO AND HOW HE FINDS A ROLE AMONGST OTHER MARVEL SUPERHEROES
@@rufertss3307 That's a great way to completely ignore the role of culture and race in cinema both as a device explicitly used by Hollywood to explicitly speak about certain issues, and as something that simply always affects any type of art because art is influenced by the culture it is created in - both perpetuating the culture it comes from, in addition to reinforcing or criticizing it. I'd give a longer reply, but Accented Cinema already made a great video explaining what good representation in movies means to the people that watch them, and you've demonstrated a wonderful ability to ignore that.
@@ATTACKofthe6STRINGS Life in Asia is much larger than just race. Taking such a huge emphasis on examining race in cinema is not only ethnocentric but a very American way of approaching film critique and analysis. So how about you think twice about the lens in which you view life before calling another's opinion as ignorant
@@rufertss3307 If you're calling me ignorant, you're calling Accented Cinema ignorant as well, since I basically told you that all I could say is everything Accented Cinema just highlighted in this very video. But here are some bullet points of my comment, Accented Cinema's video, what's been said so far. 1) I said that I hadn't considered Accented Cinema's perspective on this topic. Since I'm not Chinese American, but I love seeing cultures respectfully represented in media, I felt that Shang-Chi was a well done Kung-Fu movie that did well to respect Chinese mysticism without necessarily boiling it down into disrespectful tropes. 2) Accented Cinema basically agreed with this idea, but was disappointed that the movie focused so heavily on the Chinese part of Chinese American. From what I understood, he liked the movie because it did a great job providing us with a culturally respectful portrayal of eastern mysticism and Chinese kung-fu action, but was disappointed that it failed to highlight the American part of being Chinese American, and the struggles that come with being a mixed race individual searching for an identity that essentially falls between two cultures. He gives examples of how American media heavily focuses on the foreign aspects of someone's heritage, but doesn't yet do a good job of focusing on the parts that Americans share. As a Chinese American, he was personally hoping that such a prominent movie, made by a talented and well known studio, would finally represent the American side of the Chinese American equation better than movies in the past 3) You hopped in and said "none of this matters, stop making race such a big issue when it isn't such a big issue in Asia". That's all fine and dandy, but we aren't in Asia. I can't comment on those issues and how asians feel about this movie, and Accented Cinema implies that he can't really do so that well either. Shang-Chi was made by an American studio for primarily American audiences based off of American comics 4) I replied that listening to you is a great way to ignore the role of race in media, and how media both reflects the culture it was produced in and reinforces it. I also said I could speak more on **how media reflects and reinforces culture**, but that Accented Cinema already did a good job of doing so, which you ignored. 5) You criticized me for being ethnocentric and looking at this movie from an American lens. Yeah, I am. As a mixed race Latin American, how movies choose to portray racial issues is something I'm affected by and interested in speaking about. As a mixed race Chinese American, how movies choose to portray racial issues is something Accented Cinema is affected by, and chose willingly to speak about. This movie was made in America. This movie was made primarily by Americans. This move was made primarily for Americans. So, while there are plenty of other valid topics to discuss regarding this movie that all deserve their own, well made video to address them, Accented Cinema is the one that chose to take hours out of his day to make a 10-15 minute video for us to watch about this one specific topic. To use your own words: Life in America is greatly impacted by race. Taking such a huge emphasis on examining race is not only ethnocentric, but a very American way of film critique and analysis. How about you think twice before trying to tell others that your way of thinking about a movie is more valid then theirs when you live in a completely different place both culturally and geographically. Stop projecting your ignorance on me. Just because race isn't a big deal to you doesn't mean it isn't a big deal to Accented Cinema or to me.
This is an interesting take on the movie. I'd really like to see how Shang-chi 2 will turn out since Black Panther debuted in another movie (Captain America: Civil War) whereas Shang-chi debuted its own hero in the first movie. Since Shang-chi and Katy had so little time in SF (gotta fit that cool fight scene and give it enough time to introduce what to expect), it'll be interesting to see if he'll face any of the "otherisms" you mentioned at home later down the line in the sequel (there wouldn't be enough time to go into that in a mash-up movie). It's similar in the next part because the fight club is essentially made up of a diverse group of people who see different cultures so no one is going to out Shang-chi for that (and he's already eFamous). In the compound, you're not going to "other" the boss' son and the organization is made up of a diverse male-centric force. After that, you're in a mystical place where the "otherism" is lightly cast on Katy.
As much as I crap on this movie, I am really excited for next films (Both the Eternals and the eventual Shang-Chi 2). Like you said, now that both the characters and the phase 4 world has been established, they should have a lot more space to work in bits and pieces of these experiences.
Being Korean-American, I too have had the question "where are you really from" asked, even though I was born in the US. I can also distinctly remember people asking, either joking or completely serious if I was related to Kim Jong-Ill because my last name is Kim (which btw is the most common last name in Korea. It's basically Smith or Gonzalez). I could never really put into words the weird feeling of it always being assumed I was a foreigner even though I was born here, so I thank you for putting it better than I could.
I often mistaken for Mexican despite being Asian, I also got your problem until I move away to different place after college, then it's all gone. The place I am staying now with so many people from different countries that I feel more at home and truly feel like I belong to. Why? Because I came to US to find a better place to live in and most immigrants also have the same purpose. Although we often think about ours home country, but if ask whether we want to come back, most people in my community said it is good to visit once in a while, but life here in US is much much better for many of us who came here willingly.
There's also the irony that the person asking that question, unless they're of indigenous/First Nations/Native American background, aren't really "from here" either' Maybe we should start asking them back....
Hey to the Korean-Americans in this chat, do you find Kim's Convenience a good representation? I just started watching (because I wanted to see more of Simu Liu's work)... But sometimes I worry it's a problematic show, as lots of jokes are based on the parents' heavy accents and how they pronounce words. Apologies if this is off-topic, but seems relevant to the Asian-American representation question.
@@ChristopherDraws yeah I'm Mexican but the show made me uncomfortable. The actor's fake heavy accents sound embarrassing and unconvincing. Jackie Chan for example sounds fine in English with his accent, but choosing an actor without an accent and making him use one did not work out, at leasy for my ears. It feels like big bang theory but for Asians, where the characters and storylines come from a mostly white creative team's IDEA of what a Korean Canadian family might say and do. It doesn't feel accurate to me at all.
I like your points, but I feel like I have to disagree with you. Let me explain: Earlier in the film, we are told that moving on is an American idea. Thusly, Wenwu, who is fully Chinese, cannot bring himself to move on. The reason why Shaun is a hero and can defeat Wenwu is because he uses his eastern training to fight for his American ideas - he wants his father to move on, but the only way he can get through to his father is through the Chinese arts he was taught. In other words, Shaun becomes a perfect synthesis of Asia and America and that is why he wins in the end: He is a true "Asian-American". Of course, after he uses western ideals to fight against an eastern villain, Shaun then uses an eastern dragon to defeat a western one. In this, too, he is also synthesising what makes him a westerner and an easterner to do what neither on their own can do. There are things that Shaun cannot understand about both worlds (Watch his first reaction to Morris, for example) and there are things that both worlds cannot understand about Shaun (Watch how Wenwu is disappointed in the trajectory of his son's life, for example). That's why I think this film actually represents Asians from the west like myself really well.
I haven't seen the movie because my scheduled booster shot is in October (I'm barred from cinemas, in other words, for the time being), but I read these comments to catch a glimpse of the themes I should look out for. What you described is what I most hope to see in this movie as a Malaysian Chinese who thinks her authenticity as a human lies in being a synthesis of cultures and lived experience rather than strictly one. Your comment gives me hope and I cannot wait to experience the film in October.
@@lyndiss.2017 Keep in mind though that cultural blending is mostly a western idea, which is why any other hero who does this I could just label as western. What Shang Chi does, though, is use eastern methods to achieve his western synthesis, which is what I find really impressive and uplifting. I don't see many people having this reading of the film, though... maybe I'm just reading into it too much haha When you see it, please tell me what you think! It's SUCH a good movie.
Bro I respect your perspective and work on this video. I actually love you. Haha cheers from Montreal. I was born and raised here and still feel like a foreigner.
It's problematic that many forms of media involving East Asians or East Asian culture is too often labeled as "pandering to China." Do we automatically assume media based on Europe such as movies about ancient Rome, medieval knights, or Arthurian legends is pandering to Europe? Maybe Western audiences simply like that stuff and it's not actually pandering. Why do we add this racially tinged notion that so often assume East Asian stuff is simply pandering to China?
The reality is that China is a huge market and now studios are making creative decisions with China in mind. For example, in one of the transformers movies the third act abruptly moves to HK and introduces a couple new characters to quickly show some Chinese heroics on screen. The Chinese government also moves to "protect Hong Kong". Unfortunately there are other implications of this. Disney has seemed to be dragging their feet on LGBTQ representation, offering only a couple blink and you miss it scenes that are edited out for Chinese release. It also means that studios are encouraged to make films that translate easily to Chinese, such as action flicks, and less on culturally specific things such as adult comedies or political dramas.
Man I'm not Chinese but as asian damn you're videos makes me so nostalgic and happy . Brings back so much memorys from your video nice . keep up the good work man
I'd just like to say thank you. Thank you for your well thought out and considered videos. And yeah, the whole where are you really from, I've heard that asked to others many times. It always bothers me. Thank you for having the self restraint and gracious personality to not just slap people. Love everything I've seen from the channel and now subscribed.
This idea of being a perpetual foreigner is also known as being a third-culture kid (TCK). I am Vietnamese-Czech living in Australia. No matter in which country I am or what social circle I interact with, I never feel like I belong. I am always reminded that I am different in one way or another. Being a TCK has made me socially anxious all the time even though I do very well hiding it and being comfortably sociable which is another quite common characteristic of TCK. And as you pointed out, it is something that is missing from Shang-Chi that would make it a even greater movie.
0:15 Yes, i have had similar experiences in NY through out the years. I remember some kids making fun of me as I was walking towards the subway. Since that incident I always hold on to a AM NY newspaper whenever I'm in the subway to subtly show that I am a New Yorker and that I speak English.
I see it differently. You have some very valid points, and I agree that there's room to highlight the struggle of the Asian diaspora in being a perpetual foreigner. However, I don't think the lack of that highlight necessarily detracts from this movie. To me, I feel like the social purpose of this movie was to simply show the western world that we exist and live normal lives as Americans, along with the cultural differences that distinguish Asian-Americans from other minorities; that the purpose is the normalization of Asians in western pop media. I also think that the core conflict of the story is still a very Asian-immigrant-centered conflict, in which the main character is being pressured by his family to become the person he was raised to become instead of being the person he's satisfied with being. Living up to this type of "we've laid out a path to success for you" parental pressure is particularly an Asian-diaspora conflict. Going back to how Marvel addresses the issues facing the African-American community, we could see something similar happening for Asian-American representation as well. Black Panther certainly touches on modern societal issues facing black people in America more than Shang Chi does for Asian-Americans, but most of that film was an escape fantasy to a fictional country that feels like a different world in which black people thrive and their culture is embraced. Black Panther is a good movie whose primary conflict wasn't necessarily the racial struggles of the main character; the core conflict of BP was T'Challa discovering the darker things T'Chaka did and deciding to become a better king than his predecessors. BP served to normalize black representation in movies that don't have to be centrally tied to racism (I'm aware racism is a part of the movie, but mainly as a motivation for the villain that the protagonist can learn from. The core conflict of BP was T'Challa discovering the darker things T'Chaka did and deciding to become a better king than his predecessors.) Later on, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier dives more deeply into the real issues, highlighting the wrongs that have been - and still are - committed to that community more directly. The automatic assumptions of the police in the show, Falcon being labeled as "Black Falcon" or "Steve's wingman", Isaiah's erased history, and Sam's struggle to fully accept the shield for those reasons are all centrally tied to the racial issues plaguing America. The same can be said for Asian-Americans, with Shang Chi being the equivalent to Black Panther here. The core conflict of Shang Chi's character isn't tied to a racial issue; it's about him becoming better than what his father made him to be. Ta Lo is similar to Wakanda in acting as a sort of escape fantasy. Shang Chi and Xialing are essentially the 2nd generation immigrant children from their 1st generation immigrant mother, but to see them so quickly be embraced into Ta Lo is something many Asian immigrants wish could happen. (I'd also like to point out the first thing that confronts these two in Ta Lo is the Ta Lo people telling them to leave and that they aren't a part of Ta Lo anymore, hinting at the perpetual foreigner.) As a Chinese-American myself, I got all I ever wanted from this film. My expectations were to have us be represented accurately in western pop culture, and that has been achieved. While I also want for there to be a story that touches on the perpetual foreigner issue (A potential Disney+ series - maybe Ms. Marvel? - for Shang Chi as The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was to Black Panther), I think it's also important to normalize the different cultures before that issue is tackled. This way, general audiences would not only be able to understand the cultural conflict more, but also so that the non-American culture isn't portrayed as negative, but instead multi-faceted, showing the good along with the bad.
I really really wish that Asian American doesn’t equate to the experiences of Chinese Americans, we may have similarities but that doesn’t necessarily mean we have the same mindset. I don’t feel “represented” when this film portrays a Chinese American.
@@Laura-Yu I understand that. At least in the beginning of the movie, I think most East-Asian-Americans could relate to all the small little things they highlighted and get a little joy from that. I think it makes sense for Chinese-Americans to be the first to be represented as we're the largets Asian hyphenated demographic across the world, and it makes for a good starting point. In the future, I would love to see more Asian cultures be highlighted. I know we're getting Ms. Marvel, which should delve a bit into Pakistani culture, but I'd personally love to see a project featuring Japanese culture or Korean culture as well
@@AndrewDeng the only relatability I have with the characters are us being East Asians living in the US. Other than that, I don’t have a Korean first name and I grew up in the suburbs with mostly white/Hispanic population (aka I didn’t live near a Koreatown). It’s a shame how just having an Asian American face somehow makes it a big deal or relatable to every Asian American.
@@Laura-Yu well Shang-chi himself is a Chinese superhero so naturally the film would focus more on Chinese Americans. It would also probably be too much for the film to take on if it tried to represent every Asian demographic at once.
Man, I was so thrilled that this movie even came out (Chinese-American here) and enjoyed it so much when watching it that I didn't really consider how quickly the "American" part of Asian-American got dropped in the film, and I do agree that I wish that part/Shang-Chi grappling with his identity was more fleshed out than it was. Still, what were your thoughts on Tony Leung's performance in the movie? The only other film I had seen with him was *The Grandmaster* a long time ago, but I thought that regardless of the other flaws in the movie Wenwu absolutely stole the show whenever he was in a scene.
Yooo, did you see his essay on Tony Leung's eye acting? It'll make you want to watch all his Wong Kar-Wai films th-cam.com/video/IUwsTHGY4Ms/w-d-xo.html
I don't think the "american" part was dropped at all, esp since awkwafina was supposed to be our stand-in character anyway, and I never got the impression she felt at home in China. Also, Shang-Chi and Katy ARE american, they just are - how else did you want it represented? Cringy "wow that's different from how AMERICA does it" jokes all the time while they were in china? They don't need to keep proving they're american for the whole film...it's not like we expect white people in foreign countries to keep proving their american-ness.
@@Miquelalalaa I don't know, how does a professional sports team constantly integrate players from different states with different cultures within the USA? We do this shit every day in our professional and private lives over differences we choose to believe aren't a dealbreaker. Because we choose to embrace what we do have in common. Some Christians will embrace another Christian as one of their own from across the world. For others it will be over a videogame they play together, or over an art they both love. And at the end of the day we all share in humanity and this world. We live in a globalized world where the fate of the world is all our fates. Our blood is human blood and our culture is human culture, with all the subcultures within, be it national cultures, ethnic cultures, professional cultures, hobbiest cultures, or just the culture you share within your close friends.
As a fellow Canadian, I'm so sorry for the comments that people have given you. You are Canadian, despite what people tell you brotha. Also as far as the stuck between two worlds thing, I'd recommend that you look into TCKs (Third Culture Kids), sounds like you feel like one of us TCKs.
AC, i want to thank you and your work on this channel for both educating me about things i wouldn't have known otherwise and for helping me (and others i'm sure) to challenge my own biases and think more deeply about what, why, and how i think. it fills me with grief to hear about the firsthand experiences of yourself and those who came before you, but it also deeply motivates me to do my best in building a world where such bigotry and hate isn't allowed to propagate.
What a good way to start one's evening, watching another of your interesting, and intellectually as well as aesthetically entertaining, videos. And it's episode no. 70 already! Wow. And thanks.
Thank you. This raised some serious diaspora feelings in me and my beef with 'Asian Gatekeeping'. As a first-generation immigrant who had to go through high school life in North America, it was ridiculous to think that the conversations that I was having with my fellow Chinese would be of a similar vein with those actually in Asia. It was a farce and I ended up internalizing some serious self-loathing and an unnecessary superiority complex. For me, I needed stories that didn't try to be a watered version of what I left behind, nor a slap in the face for not being able to be something I could never be (white). So here we are. I'm still super excited to see Shang Chi though. I'm just excited to see where this leads us.
I rarely comment on the internet but I'm gonna make an exception here: As a Canadian who has lived in Quebec, I know for a fact that you're speaking from experience with regards to your opening comments in the video because I've heard it myself and seen it on many occasions. I'm sorry you had to go through that. It still happens and I can't stand it. Keep up the good work, I enjoy your content.
As someone who is mixed (I choose not to disclose what I’m mixed with because people develop preconceived notions or flat out throw labels). I can’t tell you how much of this video I feel got Shang Chi wrong. I don’t believe the movie was trying to be what you said it was trying to be. Yes China is important in the movie but it’s not the focus. The focus is much more a interpersonal story for Shang Chi and Wen Wue (The Mandarin). I understand wanting exactly what you want but in a way, it puts the piss in what is otherwise, a great origin movie at the likes of Black Panther. Shang Chi focused heavily on a burdened father and his insatiable expectations set on Shang Chi and often I presume many Chinese children feel growing up. Even his sister only being seen as delicate and unable to be a warrior which speaks for itself as to what it’s speaking for in concerns to Chinese culture. Overall, I understand your feelings and grievances but I do not at all feel this movie was the movie to be the one to necessarily address these issues but rather be a love letter to just Asian culture in general. If anyone would like to see something more social and political. There’s an amazing show by the name of “Warrior”. Stories based on writings from Bruce Lee. I believe you should check that out and also show Shang Chi love. I want to see more Asian cast films and more representation for the culture whether it be Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. I firmly believe not supporting Shang Chi 100% sends the wrong message. I’ve watched it and plan on watching it again and genuinely love the movie and believe it to be one of Marvels best movies next to my favorites Captain America and Black Panther.
Interesting take on this movie. As an Asian from Malaysia, I consider this movie as a first step for how Shang Chi was introduced in the MCU. Your take on Black Panther and The Falcon was quite unfair as those 2 characters were introduced and established in other movies before they get their solo movies/series. Compared to these 2 characters, Shang Chi was completely unknown to the audience and had a disturbing racist background in comics, which is his father is Fu Manchu. So, the way you concluded it as 'pandering' to China disappoints me, because it is a shallow take without deep analysis. So, how else the Chinese in the West, Taiwan, Hong Kong and even SE Asia region such as myself could have resonance with this character if this movie aim for China? News flash: Even Indians are asking Marvel to make a movie about an Indian superhero, as they celebrates Shang Chi. Plus, I think the very first movie was to deliver a message: To embrace your roots and break the stereotypes of Asian on screen. For Asians, especially Chinese, we tend to let go of our roots and traditions in order to fit into Western society, which could be positive and negative at the same way, which is why Katy's mother said, "Letting go is American value.' This is to tell most Asians to never gave up or be ashamed of their identity for the sake to fit into Western society. Break the stereotypes. Shang Chi's existence and Simu's performance is indeed to break on how Western always perceive on us on screen, especially in time where US have the rise of Anti Asian hate crimes. We always seen as sidekicks, first to die, not sexual attractive, and do not have a sense of humor. Shang Chi existed to break all that: He is no sidekick, can handle things on his own, physical attractive and had a sense of humor. You may argued that we had Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan's movies, but those movies usually have villains who are white, or Asians who affiliated with the West or Japan. And those movies never broke any Asian stereotypes on screen, but it could somehow worsen it. Asian Americans does not see Jackie Chan as their superhero, and Chinese community hated him for being CCP advocator and a playboy. Besides, given to China's entertainment laws, it could be hard for us to see Jackie Chan produced any movies in the future any time soon.
Agree. As an Asian from Singapore, all I could feel was psyched to see Chinese ethnicity on the big screen, aimed towards a worldwide audience. Admittedly, I might not understand the plight of Asians who are minorities in other countries and subject to racism, but had the movie become an "Asian-American" movie as opposed to just "Asian" movie, I probably wouldn't have connected to it as much. I don't feel that Shang Chi is meant to serve as a whole representation of any one Asian group's experience (there's so many of us), but rather, simply showing the best parts of Asian culture to a worldwide audience that would otherwise not even know, and I feel achieved with that.
I agree... Frankly, as Filipinos, we never had the chance to completely embrace our identity. Almost everything celebrated as Filipino is always associated with another culture: Chinese, Spanish & American. That's why I enjoy shows like Shang-Chi... Stories that celebrate roots, that remind them to never forget there's something different inside you... That you are not an American, you don't have to be indebted that they made you. You are you. You are Chinese before American, you are a Filipino before a Spanish Colony or an American charity case... You are unique enough to stand on your own as an equal on the world stage... In a way shows like this is somewhat an escape, a dream that if we weren't colonized or changed or looked down upon, would we have something glorious or unified to be proud of? Will we have a history of our own that we can fully remember & show off? I know it's tone-deaf and a sentiment not shared by many (I know most of us are content being such) and the topic centers on how Asian culture is presented to the west to which I admit, stories like these are what we need. Stories that show that otherness should be respected & accepted, that show different things don't need to blend in & fade with the masses but shine & harmonize with the world.
"So, how else the Chinese in the West, Taiwan, Hong Kong and even SE Asia region such as myself could have resonance with this character if this movie aim for China?" Well for starters, all these countries are incredibly Westernized, in fact, people of ethnic Chinese descent in Singapore and probably Malaysia as well are increasingly becoming monolingual English speakers and more people in Hong Kong can speak English than Mandarin lol
@@sarahs.thorpe857 Lol, Westernised? Have you even interact with Malaysian Chinese or even Taiwanese? Besides, that is my point for this video, this guy treat this movie as pandering to China, while it is not. The Mainland China doesn't even have the chance to watch this movie. Even Indians felt resonance with Shang Chi and now asking Marvel to have an Indian superhero movie, that is the power of this movie, more representation for Asians in MCU, and Shang Chi is the only beginning. Not some shallow analysis from this guy's essay video.
How does shang chi break any stereotypes that actual Asian movies didn't This just sounds like needing validation from Disney. And you know what maybe people really do need that validation and maybe it isn't bad. But I'm not asking Disney for that. If a creator wants to do it then good. I hope no one stops them.
I liked your points a lot. I thought Awkwafina's character filled the role of grappling with being Chinese-American a lot better. Which makes sense, she did a great job in The Farewell. But I do wish that the producers of Shang-Chi had the courage to go further in exploring Chinese-Americans, and China and American relationships. But Marvel doesn't have that courage, and I honestly don't expect that from them, so I'm not that disappointed. For being mainstream and being Marvel, it did what it was suppose to, entertain me for 2 hours.
I went in to watch the film as a South-East Asian. I felt extremely proud and happy for the Asian community to get recognition at this scale, be humanized and be represented so beautifully. I appreciated the nods at Chinese cinema as well and even though I am not a part of that community I felt pride as someone adjacent to it. I really appreciate your perspective, because I did see a lot of positive reception but had not seen any critiques until this video. I especially appreciate it as this is a good reminder as to how the community being represented are who matters the most--even as an Asian my opinion and perspective ended up being so different from yours, as it is pinpointed to your specific history and culture. Although I felt some sort of familiarity and sense of recognition just by virtue of being Asian and specifically seeing East Asians, this video lifted a curtain and helped me see what was missing from the movie. I don't mean to emphasize how Asians of my flavour and your flavour are different or any of that, I would hate to perpetuate that sort of idea--but I think this was a distinct experience for Chinese Americans and you pointing this out was a really valuable reminder. We should be able to want more and ask for more, rather than calling it a day and sitting down content. (And also still be able to critique something that we do infact, love).
I agree about being able to critique things we love! I just don't think his critique is valid and feels almost like an attempt to stand out from the shang-chi-adoring crowd, when really most of the things he said about being an immigrant or first gen is annoyingly cliche to ppl within the community.
That's how I feel as a Filipino American remembering my parents. Tagalog wasn't even their native language. They told me their university classmates used to comment on their weird accents when they moved to Manila.
I simply love your videos. Your perspectives, way of editing, seemingly infinite resources. Its so refreshing. THank you so much for letting us know new and founded perspectives all around
0:44 i took an africana studies class and even tho im not a Black person, I'm a Chinese American and this line she said still resonates with me, "If America doesn't love you and Africa doesn't know you, where is your home?" ....cept obviously in my case it's China instead of Africa as in the states, I'm "asian" but back in my parent's hometown, I'm an American.
As a half Swiss and Half Japanese, I didn't think that my experience is in a sense similar to Asian-Americans. I look foreign in both countries. Most of my life I've lived in Switzerland as the token "Asian" in a group. But now here in Japan, my way of living as a Swiss stands out. I'm slowly getting used to the behaviours here and don't stand out that much anymore, but I will probably until I die. It's a very weird feeling and makes me lost at times, but having multiple perspectives on things can also be a wonderful treasure. Thank you for making this video, it's relieving to know there are others who can understand this dilemma.
With the success of this movie, I'm sure there's a sequel coming. Hopefully, after building Shang-Chi's foundation in this movie, they can do more awesome fight scenes, characters and tackle those themes in the next one.
Here is the thing. Focusing on fights and spectacle is an easier way to capture the large audience, instead of exploring ABC entrapment that only some of us can relate or worse: understand. So u cannot fault them for it. Shang Chi the movie had every odds stacked against it. Even more couldve broken its neck.
I agree, a movie only has at most 150m to say and do everything. An origin movie has to cover a lot of ground. It did what it could and does explore ideas relevant to us. It may not have tackled all of our issues or even the biggest ones but it did incorporate key themes. The movie succeeding means we will have more opportunity to explore those ideas in the future. In other works as well as more MCU films.
I'm so glad I stumbled on this video and this channel. As a Nisei born and raised in the New York Metro Area (my father is Issei from Nagoya who moved to the US in the 1960's), I often have difficulty finding a narrative that connects with me. I don't feel Japanese in any way (despite loving my heritage and feeling a sense of pride in my legacy), and I naturally feel very out of place when I visit my cousins in Japan. But almost daily I face reminders that I am not at home in the United States either. From "Where are you really from?" to "You brought COVID here" to "Go back to your own country" (as if my distinctly New Jersey accent weren't enough to convince people that this is where I'm from), I cannot help but feel, as you so aptly put it, perpetually a foreigner. Thank you so much for this video. I look forward to watching more of your content.
I'm late to this discussion, and might not be contributing anything new, but, as a mixed non-Asian American, I didn't even consider the fact that most of the runtime is spent outside of the U.S. That's a very good point; one that didn't even cross my mind. Yet still, from my outside perspective, the movie was EXTREMELY Asian American. I was actually surprised. Pleasantly shocked, I would say. Walking out of the theater, I thought "How did Destin Daniel Cretton get away with this?! How did the studio heads not force him to appeal directly to China?" That's because the Asian Americans in this movie reminded me of all the Asian American friends I've had growing up. They would tell stories of identity struggles they faced in childhood, or commiserate about a racist encounter they recently had, but for the most part, we were all part of multi-ethnic friend groups of...normal Americans. Of course, that may just be representative of the specific social classes in the specific regions of California where I spent my entire early life, but it made me look at this film and go "Yep. Those are some American-ass Americans right there." It's kinda' how I felt when watching the Animated Mulan. As opposed to the live-action remake, the animated film - despite taking place entirely in ancient China - felt American to the core; in terms of characterization, dialogue, and theme. This is part of the reason why the CCP said "HELL NO!" to that film back in '98, and why Disney was hoping they'd embrace the remake with open arms thanks to them basically saying "This time, we're goin' SUPER Chinese! Non o' that American cartoon nonsense!" But what they ended up with, ironically, was a representation of what you talk about here: The remake was not Chinese enough for China, not American enough for America. Shang-Chi, on the other hand, feels similar to the '98 Mulan, in that it is appealing directly and specifically to Chinese Americans, despite the plot not involving Chinese American racial-tensions. Rather, the struggles both Shang and Katy face are very relatable struggles for Americans in general, and Millennials in particular: having no real direction in life, being over-qualified for work you can't/don't want to do, not living up to your potential, not living up to your parents expectations, being what others want you to be vs. what you want to be, etc. But these are also universal, and here tied specifically to their Chinese identities as well via the plot. I wonder how resonant this average-American-ness is to the majority of USAsians. 'Cause it seems to me that the Chinese government is, once again, saying "What is this American bullcrap?!" To a story targeting and celebrating Asians in general, but American ones in particular. I feel like I've typed the word "American" too much, and it looks weird. Oh well. Like I said, my perspective is that of a non-Asian, so I'd love to hear what anyone else thinks.
And most sad part is, As a Chinese, I didn't enjoy or see any thing "More like a Chinese movie" in Shang Chi, it just the same old "Chinese people lived in village far from the outside and every one of them is Master of Kungfu" crap, I rather see it discuss the struggle that Asian American face like Black Pather did for African American, and you are right, I did fell very splict from 1st scene to the rest of the movie.
Because of how much the Americans actually hate anything in the East, the stereotype of Asians being straight A students must be kept. Obviously this is meant in sarcasm, but seriously the mystical village thing is a trope in Western stories in general because cities have only been growing in the last couple hundred years. If they make a sequel I wouldn't surprised if the city look like Bladerunner, though, because Hollywood doesn't live in reality.
I appreciate this dialog. Love the essay and I also love this comments section! I'm learning more from this collection of accounts than I ever would have in school, in public discourse, etcetera. I think this sums up "the danger of a single narrative." I'm an African American cartoonist and capoeirista, so when Black Panther came out it was the topic of conversation in every facet of my life. We even held a public screening followed by hours of discussion about the rift between African Americans and continental Africans in my city (I live in Chicago, IL). For the rest of the world, BP wasn't that deep. For me, Shang Chi was just a fun Disney+ selection on a night in with my partner. I actually selected it in part because I wasn't in the mood for something challenging or heavy. Grateful for the added context and consideration! My biggest take-away is that there are infinite modalities and classifications that lead to people feeling ostracized and only one that leads to people feeling accepted. I'ma affirm everybody's lived experience without judgment. Also, I'm gonna sub to the channel. :D Take care y'all.
Big Trouble in Little China has one of my favorite Patriotic scenes in all of movies. When white guy Kurt Russel as "Jack" is with Chinese-American's "Egg Shen" and "Wang" and they need to take the magic potion to defeat David Lo-Pan's evil forces in China town. Wang, proposes a toast, "Here's to the army and navy, and the battles they have won, here's to America's colors, the colors that never run!" with Jack responding, "May the wings of liberty never lose a feather." It's a reflection of how everyone in the scene, the Chinese and the European guy are "Americans". They're citizens of a nation of immigrants... and despite the fact they're fighting Chinese monsters, they still are part of the American experience together (Even the Villain! David Lo-pan despite being an immortal evil ghost is also an American Capitalist!)
As a black man I was so disappointed with The falcon. Falcon willingly chooses to continue to be a part of American imperialist machine with the promise that "Politicians should do better, Its criticism of Racism and American Imperialism is frustratingly shallow. I wish Marvel would not tackle these issues if they arent willing to fully dive into it.
Worst part to me is how he and Bucky are basically complicit in the death of the new Cpt. America's friend but doesn't have the balls to even remotely hurt the actual terrorist.
I know many viewers will disagree with me on this, and that is okay. Discussion is a good way for us to change and improve ourselves. I look forward to hearing your thoughts!
If you want to hear more about Asian Representation in Hollywood, come join us September 18th, 11PM EDT for a live roundtable discussion, featuring Cool History Bros, Asian Representation Podcast, Xiran Jay Zhao, and yours truly. See you there!
Link: www.twitch.tv/aznsrep
And if you want to know more about the difficulty Asian American actresses were and are facing, check out this excellent video by Be Kind Rewind. Much of this video's talking point regarding Anna May Wong is a loose summary of their video.
Link: th-cam.com/video/8mmcvgd8XF0/w-d-xo.html
Please compare the plotlines of Shang Chi and Evangelion (rebuild)
Funny thing is that this movies isn't even showing in China
And now I know why Canadians hate Quebec, lmao.
Be carful where you look for inclusiveness and ethnicity issues in movies funded by Disney, their woke politics are more segregating then what they believe they’re fighting against
@@acemarvel1564 This channel isnt part of ur alt right youtube niche. Youre at the wrong place with ur "wokeness"
to be honest, Shang Chi's friend Katy nailed the majority of Asian-American issues, including Wenwu calling her an American, so I had no issue with Shang-Chi being more of a mainland Chinese immigrant than Asian-American. These 2 balance each other out really well.
I really wish it wasn’t Awkwafina who played Katy though
@@Laura-Yu how come?
@@henryhalliday87 I just found her obnoxious and distracting. Whenever she talked, her voice just stuck out and it cut the flow with the rest of the cast. I also remember from one outside fight scene where she was holding on to the pole(?) and I remember commenting to my friend that I would’ve freaked out more if the pole I was holding onto just came loose and I was holding onto my dear life on it. But I guess you need an annoying loudmouth friend in order to imply that Katy and Shang-Chi are “just friends.”
@@Laura-Yu haha fair enough. I don’t mind her, thought she had some pretty funny moments. She’s also good in The Farewell, get to see a less loud mouthed version of her!
@@Laura-Yu I guess that's just what the script and the director said. She definitely can sound normal, sad and evem gloomy.
I’m a first generation American. I was constantly asked “where are you really from” after telling people I was born and raised in rural Idaho. As a child, I was told to go back to my “own country” (implying a place on the other side of the planet that I have still never even visited all these years later). When you talk, act, look, or even seem just a little too foreign in America, you’ll get this.
Perpetual foreigner. Interesting. I’ve never heard that before, but I can see a million situations where it applies. I have lived in China for the last 12 years. And somehow, being just a regular foreigner in a foreign country seems much less foreign than being a first generation American in the USA being told to go home. My kids were born and raised in China. They’re third culture children. They’re always being told by their peers that they are “from America” even though they have never lived there. Everyone assumes they don’t speak Chinese because they don’t have Chinese faces, even though it’s a native language to them. Everyone has a different set of issues. Thanks for sharing yours.
Great to see you here Ramsey! I always knew my favorite TH-camrs watch each other.
@@prointernetuser Nice to meet another Ramsey Dewey fan here too.
Very good points. Many people undergo a similar type of situation...
We are never going to look "white". But "white" is not going to be a majority much longer. And with more Asian American movies on screen and Asians in more schools, workplace and so forth, people can see the diversity even among "Asian faces". Blacks have a bigger population and more years in US, but they gotten their rights less than 100 years. This is going to be a uphill battle. And older white people are not going to give control without a fight and give up their "white American standard" or the privilege white they deny having.
dang, must be challenging living as a foreigner in China in these times... never know what can happen. Hope it goes ok for you.
Actually, I got the exact opposite impression of Shang Chi, I thought this movie was about a specific kind of Asian American fantasy or desire, for Asians who was born/grew up in the West and have lost touch with their Asian cultural identity and want to (re)discover it. Definitely doesn't apply to all Asian Americans, but I know some friends that are like that and want to experience living in their parents' home countries to "discover their roots" or something like that. I'm personally more like you and don't have that experience, because I grew up in Asia and moved to North America when I was 18. And I think, in real life, Shang Chi would also not have that experience, because he moved to the US when he's 15-16. This movie is probably more told in the perspective of someone like Katy, who has had a glimpse of Chinese culture within her own family, but never had the full experience. She did feel like a foreigner when they traveled to China, but yes you're right, the story doesn't show how Shang Chi could have felt like a foreigner when he returned, but that's probably because the story is *not* told from his perspective. And I don't think it's made for mainland Chinese audience either, because I don't think they can relate with the Asian American experience.
But I agree with you, that this might not be the most relevant Asian American story to tell today. I think its approach is a little too similar to Black Panther. I see that a lot of African Americans might want to discover their African roots (or what could have been if a part of Africa was never brutally colonized), because they feel like they were robbed of that experience when their ancestors were taken as slaves. I imagine that maybe an African person who immigrated to the US when they're older might not feel the same way about Black Panther as an African American whose ancestors were slaves.
I feel like the universal cutoff age for feeling that you’ve lost touch with your roots is about 10, in other words if you move to another country after that your cultural roots will remain intact with you wherever you go
I agree with you about it being like a fantasy or desire fulfilment. I'm half Asian. Asia seems as magical to me as Ta Lo was to Shang Chi. I've never seen it. I've never met the majority of my family. I've only heard stories and seen pictures. When Michelle Yeoh's character welcomed Shang Chi and told him he was a child of their family, I wanted to cry. To be told that you are welcome to join this amazing legacy...it would so wonderful. It's the way I wish I could be welcomed one day
That's forgetting some of their fellow Africans sold them as slaves in the first place.
@@silverhawkscape2677 lmfao yep. And they sold them to the ..."blues"
Sorry but black americans are in America right now because of slave trade one that all African states helped not colonization in in fact it is colonization that came much later during the scramble for Africa after slavery was out lawed that result in the end of slavery in Africa don't spread myths
I always answer the where I am from question with: "My parents are from ____ , where are your parents from? " This way I answer their true question, and throw the ball back in their court. Fortunately most people are very happy to discuss what they know of their heritage as well, and it makes it a great conversation starter.
Lmao, good one!
That's pretty cool actually. I always say where my parents are from as well, but I never thought about asking the question back 😅
Could make for some interesting exchanges indeed!
Thanks, I should use this. I’m not Asian but people are always asking where my name is from
@@doyourownresearch7297 It's not about it being a challenge, it's about it being racist. If you want to know someone's ethnic background, don't ask them where they're "really" from. It's pretty simple.
@@doyourownresearch7297 I concur that in this new age of neo-liberalism, especially in the west, it has come to seem as if people are making mountains out of mole hills. I'm from Asia, I have found it the opposite issue because when I moved to Toronto nearly 6 months ago, people never mistook me as a "foreigner". My incredibly white/western sounding two first names name, along with my native fluency in english brought shock to all who I reveal that I am a foreigner and lived all my life prior to that in a country that did not speak english.
The issue comes with the treatment of exclusion and isolation. The very few times I feel different and "alone", it's seldom because of my race but because of my other qualities people are not so readily yet to accept. This isn't racism to me, I'm just not their sort.
"A story about a man being sandwiched between a world that doesn't welcome him, and a world that doesn't love him anymore." -- That would've been sooo good. I think a lot of people were hoping for something like that. That would've been so down to earth and much more relatable to a lot of audiences. While also telling the story of ostracism and being a foreigner in your own country.
Edit -- I just want to say that your take on this is soo good. It touches on everything that needed to be said about Shang-Chi and Black Panther. Shang-chi didn't pander enough to Asian-Americans/western-Asians and leaned too heavily on trying to pander to China.
I was hoping for a shallow version of a Hong Kong Kung Fu movie because I don't expect anything from Marvel.
Ironically most mainlanders didn't really like Shang-Chi because they thought it was just half assed pandering and Asian Americans liked it much better.
@@victoriazhu9381 It was more like misunderstanding Hong Kong cinema. Basically it's Kung Fu Panda, but without the philosophy.
Not exactly KRY. There issues with it were similar to both Mulan movies.
Mainlanders would have much rather watched the lived experiences of the Chinese diaspora -which is fresh to them- than to endure cringey pandering to wuxia themes. It's as bad as watching the old Hong Kong movies with token white supporting actors.
I think we see what we want to see in Shang-Chi.
Shang-Chi represents the 1.5 generation immigrant like myself, who was born in China and moved to Canada at a young age. I can transition fluidly between the two cultures and languages without great difficulty. He was actually the representation I was looking for, because my fear was that they'd turn him into the typical "struggle to connect with his roots" character. I loved the fact that Simu/Shang-Chi transitions between fluent English and Mandarin effortlessly; it sounds selfish but being one of the few people comfortable enough to watch the entire movie without reading subtitles or having to translate sentences in my head made it feel like the movie was made for *me*, a lot more than it was for Chinese from China or 2nd-gen Chinese Canadians. I was fortunate enough never to feel "othered" as a child growing up in Canada though, because my community had many Chinese Canadians, ranging from third or later generation "immigrants" to FOBs and international students. This meant that at any given moment, we could, as a group and as individuals, "negotiate" how Chinese and how Canadian we all were, which made us comfortable in our identity. I think this is the critical difference.
Awkwafina/Katy, on the other hand, does represent the typical 2nd-gen Chinese immigrant experience, down to the "name" scene with Wenwu and the disapproval of her mother. I think if she was the focus of the movie, we would get an authentic Chinese American movie in the way that a lot of people understand that to be.
I agree
I think that's one of the beauties of the film : it doesn't solely focus on only one specific point of view, but actually show us a broad range of Asian characters, each representing a very specific situation.
- Shang Chi is the young 1.5 Asian migrant (like you mentioned) who, pretty much like Simu, came to America (Canada for Simu) from China when he was a kid, and had to adapt to a Whole new world (probably why Aladdin's song is his favorite Karaoke song in the movie),
- Katy is the already comfortably American 3rd gen (since we see her granma, and her mom tells her that "granpa didn't come all the way from China to America for you to park cars" and Katy previously told her "don't forget you're an american too"), who starts the movie by being proudly carefree American in front of her friend and her mother, but later, gets her views on life challenged when she's faced with actual stakes and "authentic" traditional chinese elders wisdom (even though the movie could have delved a bit deeper on that),
- Xialin is the one who's always lived under authoritarian and mysoginistic China (metaphored by her father), and couldn't escape to a Western country, so she escaped to neighbouring Macau, which, even if it's still technically part of China, still enjoys more freedom than China (I suspect originally, that part was supposed to be in HK, which would have made much more sense, given the amount of legendary HK actors in the movie, but then... being in 2019, the massive protests and police brutality happened in HK, which didn't make production there possible anymore... thanks, China ! So Macau it is), where she could be the badass she ever wanted to be.
- Wen Wu is everything that represents one side of modern (and in some ways, traditional China) : Has the ultimate power (the 10 rings in the movie) and is millenia old, and while he loves his children, he's stuck in his old ways and can't change (he even says it himself after his wife died), he is greedy (he conquered everything in the world for a 1000 years), authoritative, does whatever he wants, control freak, patriarchal, doesn't give any space for arguments (and that's not really giving a bad rap to china, it really is how it is in real life, right now), and despites his army of minions, he's very much isolated and lonely at the top of his (litteral) mountain. He's very much the Yin (down to how his compound look, that is almost entirely black, with only one bright colored part in all of it : the wooden dragon sculpture, that seemingly comes from Ta Lo),
- Ta Lo and its people, especially the mother and the aunt, represents the "real" traditional side of China : spiritualism, altruism, community and familial bonds, martial arts (especially Taiji), nature, keeping in touch and respecting their roots and their mystical side (including the mythical creatures, like the stone lions, phoenixs, kirins, Hulijins, and of course, the mighty dragon)... They're basically the Yang side of China (when we first arrive in the village, it is sunny, vibrantly colored, grandiose... with the only dark spot of the village being of course the Sealed Gate).
And when Wen Wu's arrives, it corrupts everything and toned the whole village in dark gray.
So everything, every character, and even every set has meaning in this movie. The more I watch it (I've watched it 3 times, already), the more I can see it. Intentionally or not, it is a very well crafted universe, if anything a bit rushed because of its feature film format (I actually think it would have benefitted to have the luxury of a Disney+ series treatment, so we could explore and dive more deeply into all its themes and characters).
@@jjstarrprod The interesting thing is, the Chinese government actually wants Hong Kong to function more like Macau and is laying the groundwork.
@@KRYMauL Not sure that's a good thing. HK is great because it's HK
@@jjstarrprod Just said it was interesting as much as I would love for the Communist party to collapse and for there to be peace. I know that's a pipe dream that will never happen because people are greedy.
As a biracial African-American I truly feel the pain and beauty in your words and story. I know what it feels like to be a "stranger" with both white and black people. I hope Disney makes strides to better represent what the Asian-American identity struggle is sooner than later, thank you for your wonderful videos!
hello fellow biracial angel. We may be alien to our communities but at least we have each other.
Same. I've always felt I wasn't black enough, but I'm also not white either. It's definitely a relatable situation to be in.
Same! Too black for the white kids and Too white for the black kids.
@@neonwallacewells7818 this is what i wanted to reply to this comment- it's awesome that we can take this alienation and unite around it
why expect this from Disney?
"Disappointing your elders... You know good stuff!" You nailed it man.
Just an Asian things
"Chinese people watch American movies for Americana"
This cannot be more true. They have their own movie industry to talk about their own culture and more specific subcultures. They have really talented directors and producers as well, so why would they watch an American movie if its just gonna show a story they've seen hundreds of times already before? (provided that the movie is authentically Chinese in the first place)
Exactly!
" so why would they watch an American movie if its just gonna show a story they've seen hundreds of times already before? " for the novelty of Americans cattering to their idioms and storylines
Tell that to video game companies, they're still putting Wu Kong into every game possible.
Not to mention it’s quite rare that they do a good job of showing accurate and relatable modern Chinese culture - a lot of the times it’s just what they think Chinese culture is about. While part of that stereotype to a certain extent in certain limited aspects can be true, it’s not the whole story and I feel mainland Chinese people (including me) are quite tired of seeing America presenting what they think Chinese culture is
Because they Don't. Chinese audiences are waiting for a good authentic Chinese produced fantasy movie for years but so far they only get movies that are copycats, with cringy armour and Character with Wire flying everywhere.
I’m reminded of some comments Eddie Huang made this year about being third culture. That he’s accepted never fitting in in America or in Taiwan, that his friends and people he loves are is home and that he wishes he saw that sooner rather than looking for a land that doesn’t exist.
I think about this every day it's so liberating not feeling that pressure anymore
Eddie Huang, appropriator of black culture is not the guy to be getting quotes from.
@@Legoshi_Vue Lmao STFU, us Asians in the 80's - the early 2000s didn't have a culture to flock to. We would have been called by people like you too white if we practiced our English and listened to Grunge, or too Asian if we just studied and followed our parent's tradition, or too Black if we listened to rap or hip hop.
Riz Ahmed said something very similar in one of his recent interviews! Except he said as an artist he's realised that his home is not Britain or Pakistan. It's not static but his home is the art that he creates and the community that he's found. Very poetic and my paraphrasing doesn't do it any justice. But very resonant with what you wrote about Eddie.
I was literally about to comment about Eddie’s comment but you beat me to it😭
I came to the US 3 years ago from深圳. I appreciate you sharing this perspective that others don’t understand
Dude I love your comedy!
Yeah, but you became ceo of beijing corn so you're not considered struggling.
What the hail!
Holy crap, you're over here. Oddly enough, I thought you'd been raised here longer than three years... Really interesting to IMMEDIATELY find out otherwise.
Unrelated - Your videos are amazing.
No way you've only been in the US for 3 years.
It’s interesting that Shang-chi the movie itself becomes a “Perpetual Foreigner” - Asian Americans find it representing China more than themselves, while many Chinese perceive its representation of China exotic and offensive. As Shang-chi’s release date in China is still yet to be announced, it’s quite possible that it will become a movie that’s made for a Chinese audience, but never released in China.
Some chinese are biased against this movie for a different reason tho not that one
Why though? There are dozens of Chinese martial arts movies that are more dramatic and exaggerating?
Why do people keep claiming this was a movie made for Chinese audiences? This movie was never made for Chinese audiences considering it's about the perspective of an Asian American immigrant living in California, and the characters & plot don't really have much to do with native people living in China. And this movie isn't going to be released in China because their govt already filled out their max quota of foreign films to be released in 2021.
@@Intranetusa Lol, as an Asian American, Nah, it doesn’t represent me. Maybe Chinese Americans.
I've heard that in the U.K."Asian" was the term used to refer people of India/Pakistan/South Asia origin whilst "East Asian/Oriental" was used to refer people of Chinese/Japanese/Korean origin. The term "Asian" in the States is just so many races coined into one... So I can get why people are unsatisfied by this representation.
"why go so far back into our past to look for stories when we have plenty of stories to tell right here" this one line really hit it home for me. We need to be able to do both, reflect on the past and keep moving forward at the same time, that's how we define our identities as Asian Americans.
"Why go so far back into our past to look for stories when we have plenty of stories to tell right here?" Because they're cool. The now is just a boring world, telling the same thing over and over again. And we lie to ourselves under the word, "representation" when it's just normal people doing normal things like you and I. History on the other hand offers more like Weapons, culture, code, system and traditions
But hey, we gotta tell the now, right? Let's forget about the past that put us here in the first place
The Other 2% joke was absolutely brilliant.
Great essay as always
I'm adopted from the Philippines, and your video represented so many if my experiences. I've never really felt like I belong to a culture. Thank you.
It's sad I was basically born and raised in America and you have no idea how often I get asked what's it like in China... What did you eat in China.... When are you going back to china? I was like BITCH I have never even been to China never even stepped foot in china. STFU! So sad we are looked as foreigners
When there are so few Asian leads in American films it's easy project all your desires on one single film hoping it encompasses all that you feel is important about Asian American identity, but I think we have to remember that it's just one movie, and no one movie can be everything to everyone. There's nothing wrong with wishing the movie would've been more about one thing, but I don't think that makes it a misstep that it wasn't, because at the end of the day they explored the themes they felt were important. From reading interviews with the director and one of the writers it seems like they wanted to steer clear of some of the Asian stereotypes and tropes that we already see so much in movies. People of color have problems and lives outside of their struggles related to their ethnicity.
I agree as well.
Exactly! I think just having Asians seen living a normal life, experiencing the same problems as everyone else is just as important.
That's the thing about Marvel movies. They will touch on the subject, but they won't go past the safe zone. But I guess it'll always be this way.
@@d0k0night They're movies based on kids superhero comics with magic, fantasy and science fiction. Go somewhere else for deep.
Shang chi wasn't really a kid comic Tim.
I have to disagree. Before I get dismissed, let me say that I am a big fan of this channel and the positions that it presents. And maybe I need to also say that I am Asian American. But when I watched the film, I felt that duality. It's clear, at least it was to me, that Shang Chi was not accepted in America as an American--he retells a story from his childhood when he was bullied for being Asian, he even changes his name to "Shaun" to fit in. But it is also clear to me that he does not fit in well with the Chinese side of his identity, which is clear in his relationship to his father. Katy does not speak Chinese, and that makes her an outsider in the second half of the film. But the film also does something else well, which a film like Rumble in the Bronx does not, and that is: it captures the way in which Asian Americans often have to reconcile themselves to the Asian side of their identity. I as a Korean American who was born here in the US grew up hating my Koreanness because I perceived it as the thing that was keeping me from being accepted by American culture. As I grew older, I had to learn to accept that I am Korean, and that I am forever my parents' child, for better or for worse. I read Shang Chi's journey to China and then to Tao Lo as his process of coming to accept this side of his identity. As his aunt and father tell him in the film, he spent his entire life running and hiding who he is--and while in the film what he is running and hiding from has a specific meaning, I took it as a metaphor that he must come to accept the Chinese side of his identity. There is something similar going on in The Farewell. Also, I have to say that it is not clear from the video what Accented Cinema wants from the film. On one hand, the video criticizes depictions of Asians that exoticize and orientalize them, but then on the other hand, the video criticizes Shang Chi from presenting the title character as normal and everyday. In my view, I could not see a single Asian stereotype in this film: Shang Chi is not effeminate, neither Katy or Xialing are seductresses or dragon ladies, Wen Wu is not a mysterious evil trying to conquer the world, no one is good at math, no one talks about honor, etc. etc. These characters are just people. And if the criticism of the film is that it drew from the mystical for that third act, again, I don't see what the criticism is. This mystical land was presented as something distinct from "actual" China with a history and dignity of its own. So, while I agree with Accented Cinema's criticisms of Asian stereotypes, of the experience of being a perpetual foreigner, I just don't see how those things come out of Shang Chi. It just seems that AC went to Shang Chi wanting to see a different movie instead of seeing the movie that it is. Which is fine. We don't all have to like the same movies.
“No one is good at math” LOL…
First of all, I don't think this video is a criticism of the movie. It's only wishing that the movie had explored subjects that are important for Asian Americans, not just pure Asian people. He called it a "nit pick". Other than that, it sounded like he enjoyed the movie quite a lot.
You're right that the movie portrays China quite well and doesn't fall into typical stereotypes, but that's kind of the point. He said so in the video. It's made targeting a Chinese audience. But this does not address his thesis, which I understand to be two main points: (1) American movies never portray Asian Americans as Americans, and (2) a Chinese American will not fit in when they go to China either.
The parts where Shang Chi was not accepted in America exist, which again, were noted in the video and highlighted as positives. On the other hand, the parts where he did "not fit in well with the Chinese side of his identity" is actually precisely what this video was lamenting. Asian Americans are supposed to be Americans too. Why should we always fit into the Asian side of our identity, but only the Asian side? Where's the portrayal of Shang Chi coming to terms with his American identity, and fitting in with Americans? All of this plays back to the problem that this video is trying to point out with American movies - that Asian Americans are outsiders who will never be American.
On the Chinese side of the story, there was practically no problem with Shang Chi just adapting to China. He lives a typical Chinese life with Chinese parents, never rejected his Chineseness, had no struggle reconciling and learning to accept that he's Chinese. These are all powerful things that you said you've experienced for yourself, but the movie basically ignores or only represents metaphorically. When he goes to China, he instantly fits in and starts doing Chinese things with other Chinese people, with no one treating him like a foreigner, which is not the lived experience of Chinese Americans either. That is the second issue that this video is raising: the movie doesn't delve into the foreignness that an Asian American, raised in America, feels when they are in Asia.
My main takeaway from this video is that this is why representation is important. We've got so many white characters in Marvel and beyond that there isn't any real expectation that any given white character will capture the "white experience." But when there's only one Asian character it's natural that many different people will come to the table with different hopes/dreams/expectations, finally hoping to see themselves on screen.
Unfortunately, it's impossible for a single character to capture the diverse and multi-faceted experiences felt by millions from different countries and cultures all across the world.
I hope that we see more Asian characters in the MCU and in Hollywood as a whole so that maybe with each movie people will feel a little more "seen."
i agree with everything you wrote here. thank you.
@@letao12 let's face it: no Chinese person would look at your photo and think "you're American", and no American would look at your photo and think "you're American".
It's been 200+ years and Asians are still Asians in America. Get the hint yet?
Thanks for making this video @Accented Cinema. As a Hong Kong Chinese person who was born in HK and grew up in Australia, I experienced (and to some degree continue to experience) the things you talk about being an American/Canadian Chinese person. People in Australia still remark on my English being 'good', and my largely Western value sets have been a source of friction with some of my family back in HK (though to be fair, only with one member). I think what bothered me more when I visited family back in HK, was that I was acutely aware that we were culturally different, and even though they made tremendous effort to include me, and the actual language wasn't a barrier (funnily enough, my vocabulary and intonation is that of people twice my age in HK because I learned from my parents), I could see that their experiences, concerns and values were different. Even more interesting is that I could see differences between the views of my parents, who despite having grown up in HK, have lived in Australia almost as long as I have been alive, and the views, value sets and experiences of their siblings in HK. Every culture evolves and moves over time, and the moment someone is removed from it, they start to lose pace. It's not a bad thing necessarily, but something we need to acknowledge - particularly those of us who grew up outside of our 'ancestral home countries'.
The fact that we are both neither, and both at the same time is an intriguing experience, and one that largely drove me to do a PhD studying how people can communicate with each other more effectively despite having very different worldviews and speaking different languages. In some ways, it could be seen as a short-coming. Never really feeling like I belonged anywhere means I don't have a patriotic bone in my body. However, I also feel being able to step back and see the world from multiple points of view has made me more sympathetic of others, accepting, and open-minded. I suspect being a 'perpetual foreigner' can make it easier to see people as people, and judge/appraise them based on their character no matter where they're from. Something that's probably harder to do if you grew up in an entirely homogeneous society.
British Chinese here (also from Hong Kong). I've never fit in anywhere either, but it helped that I had friends who also didn't fit in - other children of immigrants. Even friends in university who were immigrants were more relateable, and like you I think it made me much more open, accepting/appreciating of difference and able to see things from multiple perspectives. There's a concept in Decolonial theory called Border Thinking, it's not a physical space but a state of mind intersecting subjectivities, nationalities, histories, cultures, race, class, sex, lived experiences etc. I think people like us inhabit this space.
“Shang-Chi never explores his Asian American experience.” …I mean, they need some sort of the story for the sequel.
This movie not meant to be race specific
@@MikeyzFoodieLair are you serious rn
I'd rather not, it was a flawed movie and superhero films need to die.
@@mattzhang4854 don't listen to people who don't have to worry about race and being on the back end of racism
@@vincentmalasawmkimajongte7489in 50+ years maybe
The quality of the fights may be because Marvel hired Bill Pope (the Matrix) and Peng Zhang (Jackie Chan alum) to do the fights and it shows, I hope they go further in this direction
It was choreography by Brad Allan (who was the Supervising Stunt co-ordinator), one of the member of Jackie Chan stunt team (and sometimes played the bad guy role as well). He choreographed many Hollywood fights as well (Kick Ass, Kingsman). Sadly he passed away during the post-production of the movie.
@@mrbin851 wow and Disney hasn’t give any messages for his death what a bunch a twats
@@StridingJack425 Uuuuh... have you seen the movie ? The last sentence in the end credits is literally "In loving memory of Brad Allen".
Also, Simu and Destin have talked about this on some interviews.
Just my two cents: This is a really interesting perspective to hear, because it was written and directed by Asian-Americans to be a story for, to hear them tell it, an (Asian-)American audience.
Shang-Chi was the first-generation immigrant, Katy was second-generation, and between them they show at least some breadth of the Asian-American experience in between the usual superhero stuff.
It’s not going to represent everyone all at once - you can also say this about Black Panther and FATWS, the reception of those properties was not unanimously positive among African-Americans - and the entire idea of one piece of media acting as a load-bearing all-in-one example of representation is part of the problem with scarcity; when you’ve only got one mainstream property displaying x, that x has to be everything for everyone. Hopefully in time that problem will cease to exist.
Until then, I also hope that they continue to strive for more through the sequels, but at the same time, I have seen sooooo many people, including friends and family, talk about how they feel seen by this movie, and I think it’s done a really great job of opening and widening that door.
I agree on the point of how " one piece of media acting as a load-bearing all-in-one example of representation is part of the problem with scarcity" - nobody expects Iron Man or Captain America to represent all white people. I understand why there are so many expectations on Hollywood projects that aim to represent under-represented groups, be they ethnic or sexual/gender minorities, but the weight of those expectations can crush a filmmaker and said expectations can often be unrealistic. There is a plurality of experiences for anyone who can be classified in any group - Asian-Americans have many different experiences, East Asians have many different experiences, the Asian diaspora in countries around the world has many different experiences. The thing I always say is: the more people from more backgrounds telling more stories, especially in Hollywood and with a platform like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the better.
I think Disney still is apprehensive about "going there" they create stuff that appeals to everyone on a surface level. they skirt with the concept of big ideas. they never go to the deeper level, or pull focus on these real issues.
Um but how about Chinese-Americans who were in California in the 1840s? First generation and second generation still imply they are new immigrants. Truth is, many of their ancestors settled in the country earlier than many white folks
@@larshofler8298 Sure, many Chinese-Americans were in California in the 1840's. My own Chinese-American grandparent was in New York in the early 1900's. This movie wasn't that story, but it was plenty of other people's.
As I said in my original comment, between Shang-Chi and Katy, they showed at least some breadth of the Asian-American experience in between the usual superhero stuff. It’s not going to represent everyone all at once, and the entire idea of one piece of media acting as a load-bearing all-in-one example of representation is part of the problem with scarcity. Hopefully this film works to open and widen the door for more perspectives.
I agree 100% because this is one story of one particular person. How can a strorybof one men can represent a whole race when at the end of the day we are all individuals and our starting points in life are diferrent so we are gonna grow up having diferrent experiences. For exemple, shang-chi was born in China, so if someone would ask him where is from he would say that is from China and not Toronto, New York, London or Paris and coming from there, he would never be ask where is it really from. That is the story being told here and we can only hope that other storys can adress the Asian community in a diferrent perspective.
I grew up too look like a serial killer. Goals mate goals.
That's sounds cool
Everything was stated so plainly and logically - I haven't been able to clearly articulate these feelings as an Asian American, and found myself starting to cry while watching this. Thank you for making this video essay!!
What's interesting about this critique is that it wants the film to emphasize the "American" side more than the "Chinese" side, and yet a lot of people nowadays (especially what I'm seeing in the media) want to emphasize their "otherness" to their American side.
You will have African/Asian/Hispanic people talking about how they are African/Asian/Hispanic rather than their North American ties.
It's easy to want to emphasize the otherness when your Americaness is not challenged, but for a lot of Asian Americans this is not a given. Like stated in this video essay, you're always seen as an alien "the other" no matter your experiences, so actually being seen and accepted as American is a big deal when your whole life you have been told you're a foreigner.
Probably how since they have been rejected in the mainstream culture, they then seek their identity through differences, therefore making a best situation out of what was dealt to them. That's my pov
I would guess that maybe that sentiment to show off their ancestral heritage to Americans is their way of sticking out above all the white noise that is the “American melting pot” where people from every country and culture in the world exist in the United States.
Perhaps a parallel can be drawn between Steve Rogers' "old world" (WW2) and Shang-Chi's Chinese origin. If so, Shang-Chi's inevitable sequel could deal with the identity issues within the US similarly to how Captain America: The Winter Soldier dealt with Steve's man-out-of-time status.
I think Shang Chi and Crazy Rich Asians gets the criticism more than other movies that it doesnt do a good enough job of representing certain facets of Asian or Asian-American culture. And I think this can sometimes be an unfair criticism. Now, they both touted themselves as movies of Asian representation so maybe they deserve it, but I dont get the feeling that other movies have to capture every aspect of their heritage and diaspora culture so completely. It shouldn't be the job of any single movie to fairly and accurately capture all of those experiences. Shang chi choose to focus more on the parent-children conflicts. And maybe I'm reading too much into it, but isn't that something the Asian diaspora resonate deeply with? Not that other cultures and ethnicities don't also have parent-children conflicts, but it seems to be a running theme through the Asian experience, especially in the west.
No one thing can capture all things, Americans have to understand that, starting with their country. It doesn't, won't and can't capture, represent and summarize all of human experience and diversity
Crazy Rich Asians had a scene in Singapore. There isn't Malays nor Indians in there, misrepresenting its multiracial demographic
Shàng Qì had a scene in Macau, Hong Kong yet not a single Cantonese was spoken. I'm aware there are Mandarin speakers in Hong Kong but the lack of Cantonese is just shameful catering to the China Communist Party
Yeah but the reason why Black Panther could do it was because it used elements already discussed in media and internal discussions.
When have Asian Americans made those discussions prior to these movies or that Spa shooting; or those commonplace Asian jokes in middle class suburbia?
Black people have mediums that talk about this and there isnt enough Ronnie Changs speaking about it. There isn't enough 'Crazy Rich Asian' movies or 'Paper Tigers' talking about their issues from their perspective that isn't tryi g for a 'gotcha' moment
"the film wants to be a chinese film more than an asian american movie"
we were inspired by the hall of- wait no wrong direction
Nice.
I was THIS close to using that clip, let me tell you.
I think Shang Chi is greatly influenced by films like Hero, House of Flying Daggers, and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. They are widely praised by western audiences. However, from Chinese people's perspective, they are exactly made for western market . They are "inspired by the hall of- " in a good way. But in the other hand they differ from how Chinese films present their own culture.
2nd generation Asian American here. This video helped me under why I related more with the first half of the movie than the second. I definitely enjoyed the part of the movie that focused on the Asian American experience. Thanks for making it clear to me!
As a Quebec native and a French speaker, I'd like to start with an apology - no matter how empty this might seem, after all these years. I'm not one of those who said stupid crap like this to you, but being disabled, I'm familiar with what happens when you stand out. The older I got, the more I realized that in some parts of the province, there's a pervasive inferiority complex that pushes some people to aggressively step up to whomever happens to speak something other than French. I've seen cab passengers yell at their Israel-native drivers for speaking Hebrew on the phone, seen Karens yell at Haitian Canadians for speaking Creole amongst themselves...
I don't think there's much that can be done for the older generations, locally, but Millennials and younger ones can still turn this around. Protecting French's status in the province shouldn't be synonymous with bullying someone who uses a different language in more personal situations. I'd understand using French around the service industry or just to get around in more francophone corners of the province; but beyond that, which language you choose to use is really nobody's business.
Hey, as a first-gen half-Taiwanese (and recently disabled lol gotta tick all those boxes) who moved to Montreal, thank you for saying this! I've been on the receiving end of some racist stuff (the classic "Go back to your country," for example) but I'm able to verbally defend myself in QC slang that can catch people off-guard ("Crisse-moi la paix esti, j'habite icite." -- lol). It is way way WAY more frustrating and hurtful when I'm out and about with my mother who is Taiwanese with English as her fourth fluent language but pretty much no French although she tries her dang hardest. Even before she opens her mouth, people openly mock her, speak down to her, infantilize her, judge her, take advantage of her, and shoot her dirty looks or elbow her out of the way. And she always just smiles without protest.
Fortunately, there have been some incredibly nice French Canadians like yourself who she has met along the way who help make QC feel like a nicer place to be. (: Thank you for your optimism about the new generation, and being understanding towards both sides -- the importance of French but not at the expense of bullying others. Que la nouvelle année t'apporte paix, santé et bonheur!
@@tigerlybalm À vous aussi, évidemment! Bonne année!
My go-to for weathering toxic comments mostly amounts to reminding myself that those involved likely don't know what they're talking about. I've seen some of the more backwoods corners of the province, and I'll admit us Frenchies are great at compiling info partially or filling gaps with biases. Again, that's an inferiority complex at work.
Where it gets really freaking weird is when you're cussed out by a guy in Jonquière whose only real beef against you is that you're from Montreal, LOL.
Tu n'as pas à t'excuser, l'obsession du français au Quebec se comprend historiquement, pour les raisons que tu sais probablement déjà. Donc c'est pas la peine de trainer dans la boue ta culture et ton histoire pour un commentaire négatif sur notre prétendue intolérance. Pour les québécois comme pour les français, c'est l'assimilation qui compte, et ça passe aussi par le fait de parler la langue. C'est notre culture, les autres devraient la respecter avant de nous ordonner de respecter la leur.
@@billmurray7676 J'abonde dans votre sens, mais reste qu'il y a tout un spectre entre le fait de s'attendre à un minimum de respect et l'intolérance crasse de certaines personnes. J'apprécie toujours le fait de voir des gens fraîchement immigrés se casser les dents sur le français - ils vont y arriver avec quelques efforts - mais je ne suis pas aveugle pour autant. Pour certaines tranches d'âge ou communautés culturelles, s'attendre qu'elles adoptent le français relève du voeu pieux. C'est le fait de voir ces personnes se faire marginaliser ou insulter ouvertement quand on sait que passer du Dari au Français à 87 ans est un exploit en soit, qui me dérange.
@@McSquiddington Les gens qui aiment être méchants avec les autres trouveront toujours une excuse (chinois, binoclard, gros, rouquin, etc) et il n'y a rien à dire qui pourrait leur faire changer d'avis. Certainement pas chialer sur internet ou chercher de la "représentation' dans un film.
Je suis conscient que le modèle assimilationniste est exigeant, mais il fonctionne. Mieux en tous cas que le modèle américain, je pense.
Une bonne partie des problèmes en France viennent d'ailleurs de l'abandon de ce modèle, et on voit progressivement un peuple uni (malgré les différences d'origine) devenir un pays de communautés. Je trouve ça triste.
Plus le temps en passe, et plus j'ai de doutes sur la valeur du multiculturalisme.
Hi Accented Cinema.
I am a sophomore in a 60% white high school. with 11 years of experience in China.
I watched dShang-Chi with my ABC friends and found out I was the only one who recognized Jiuweihu, Qilin, DiJiang, and Zhujiuyin in the film. But that was okay.
While my other friends cry in the end, I did not cry. Because I was debating over whether this is another Mulan (stereotyping Chinese culture by being too obvious) or a good movie but not attractive to the major public because the identity struggle is too vague.
So I ran back home and spent 5 hours writing a journal on Bilibili, saying things you should understand before watching Shang-Chi.
I talked about how we need to let go of conspiracy and beauty standards (mainly awkwafina) because they have been westernized and they are harming people. I talked about how good the water effect and the ShenShou were. I talked about how the fighting scenes are awesome and how you should think it as a superhero movie.
Then I got blackmailed and threatened and called as an American spy/outsider/whitewashed Marvel fan/a person who sold her culture & dignity.
Then I truly realized the struggle between the two worlds.
This also happened when I was back in China for vacation this Summer, and wanted to discover more no the Zhengzhou flood (since it is my hometown), but was shut away by my own father because he thinks I'm showing bad information about the Chinese sewage system for western entertainment.
I cried a whole lot hahaha...
anyway.
Please do not worry about my mental health, because the blackmailings are childish plays and pathetic actions in my eyes.
I just want you to know.
I did not cry watching Shang-Chi,
but I cried watching your video essay.
Thank you. I may keep being that perpetual foreigner, and I still do not know what to do. However, I will keep chasing what I desire...
b站头像是派蒙那个吗，不容易，现在网上太多跟着风向乱发疯的神经病了
@@pinecoo6482 世界好小啊哈哈哈哈哈哈啊哈
Your father is an Asian, of course he disapproves of your actions ;p.. Love from one perpetual foreigner to another...
Asian women are indeed white men tool to harm asians. Most of white media uses asian women journalist to spew hate towards adian country
很棒，希望你以后还能坚持啊！❤
"why go so far back into our past to tell good stories ?" that really resonated with me.
It's the ultimate sentence to drive the point home, a true phenomenal essay
Because its who you are and anyone outside of this culture or race may not know where your origin is from. Unless you'd rather be more and more western so western ppl can see more as them?
To me, "Why go so far back into our past to tell good stories?"
Cos it's cool. Things now are boring. We see them almost everyday. Zatoichi and Kenshin are my favourite films and is by definition, an example of Asian Representation (Asian media made by the people who know their stuff and what they are doing) in fact, The reason why Japan is associated with Ninjas and Samurais because not only its part of their history, they also made them in their kabuki theatres! So why go so far back? Simple. Because it's cool
That's just one famous example
@@1eyeddevil929 I second that. There is nothing wrong with social realism, but I feel like life is more than just representing the current, factual state of it.
Love you, Accented Cinema. This exactly. I was hoping they’d capture the duality of the Asian American experience, but barely explored any of it. The first half of the movie is superior to the second for a martial arts flick, but it could’ve been more. The only moment I can think of was when WenWu talks to Katie about her name at the dinner table. Felt like a moment taken from my own life when talking to my aunts/uncles. Maybe it’s my fault for expecting this exploration from a Marvel movie, but also, why shouldn’t we expect this? Enjoyed the movie and loved Tony Leung, but felt it was missing something. I think you nailed it.
@washima uan He became Asian American. The original origin has so many issues.
@washima uan Killmonger's story was exactly about that racial issue of black men in america, and his story as a contrast/foil to T'Challa's was the central thematic conflict in the movie.
@washima uan I mean black panther wasn't just about an African man becoming king. If it were like that it'd be like the original comic stories and prob just been a revenge for my dead dad superhero story(not a bad story, just not the explicitly racial one we got)
I mean what they want is just the equivalent of an African person wanting their normal lives being represented more in BP(a movie where you see women getting kidnapped outside of Wakanda once and the rest takes place in that fantasy land, no real inbetween).
MCU is about making superhero movies. All the extra issues that might be addressed are extras or toppings in the films. This is not a drama about race or immigration or generational differences even if some of the themes are in the movie.
@@brianng8350 And what exactly makes for a compelling superhero movie to you? In my view, and it's been stated by Marvel filmmakers, is that they center on very human stories. They involve a central conflict with nuance in which the hero must navigate and fight against injustice. The entire premise of X-Men is the issue of civil rights and LGBTQ+ rights later. Iron Man's origin story is about the military industrial complex and state surveillance/overreach later. If we just take superhero movies to be superpowered individuals beating on grimdark villains/monsters over and over again... it gets pretty boring real quick (looks over at DC).
A lot of people are judged for who they aren't instead of who they "are". It's a pedantic difference but one that illustrates the culture and many Asian American lives. Authenticity should always be prioritized over pandering in media and I appreciate you for pointing it out.
Not a pedantic distinction at all. I think it's really apt. Dominant cultures often understand/describe members of diaspora communities in the qualities they lack.
I’m a Chinese international student currently in Montreal, I can totally understand the struggle of the Asian community in North America. However this film is not appreciated back home cuz the predecessor of Mandarin is the notorious fumanchu, considered a character with an insulting connotation to China, and he is Chinese. The whole concept of the film to those who don’t know is kind of like the Asian American son revolting his vilified Chinese biological father in order to convert to America. As a result, this film is not gonna help local Chinese people to understand the struggles within the Asian community(it doesn’t show it much anyway) but even worsen the perspective of Chinese people on Asian Americans who r so hyped about the film. It’s sad but it’s true.
Fu Man Zhou? Offensive? Lol, Lmao even, Lmfao, if you will
@@1eyeddevil929 not sure what u mean but go check out Mandarin’s early image, you will know the resemblance
@@bigdthe8th455 do NOT speak for me, Halfie freak
I think the overt exoticism angle you mentioned got amplified thanks to the fact that in this universe, Shang's mom was literally from a magical realm of Chinese myth and magic, and his father was a mortal man who gained immortality thanks to supposedly alien artifacts.
Though one really cool note is that in the end of the movie, Shang uses a mix of his mom AND his dad's fighting styles, which was neat visual storytelling and the fact that the movie didn't even say it outloud was a nice subtlety for a change in modern Hollywood movies.
I really enjoy the choreography. You can see Shang-Chi uses the Bajiquan elbow strike on the bus fight. Later in the film, his father would uses the same attack against him.
There are a lot of stories hidden in the choreography, definitely the best part of the movie.
@@AccentedCinema Can you also talk about the whitewashing of Asian characters in Hollywood? Can you also talk about the Eurocentric view of the world that affects representation of East Asians in the media. Can you also talk about the double standard of how people refuse to acknowledge the fact that Son Goku from Dragon Ball is Asian (specifically Chinese) despite being an Alien just as much as how Superman is a Caucasian man who happens to be an Alien, and how people refuse to acknowledge this fact in regards to Goku. I keep seeing people also say "Don't cast an Asian person as Goku, it doesn't feel right. A white guy or a Latino would do the trick. Besides, Goku is an Alien and the world of Dragon Ball doesn't have the cultures and traditions of our world. There are no blacks, whites etc. It's just a fantasy world. So Goku being a white dude isn't such a big deal. The only Asians are Chi Chi, Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Yajirobe. The Saiyans look more European to me, plus they are huge. Hugh Jackman would make a great Vegeta."
If Marvel depicts a more realistic China, there's no way they don't get called out or cancelled by the Chinese. Though, they hate this version we have in Shangqi as well.
@@AccentedCinema Can you also talk about how Anti SJWS where threatened by the idea of Shang Chi succeeding? And how on earth these people watched Kung Fu films and anime when they hold such biases towards Shang Chi.
@@kenshix7902 Dude a This point you should make the video and talk about it I mean you already wrote the script 😂 seriously tho why would you want to watch a video that already repeats what you believe?
Absolutely fantastic video!
A fascinating insight into a cultural perspective I could never experience myself. As a German myself, I frequently am the foreigner in online circles, but that is exactly it; as soon as the screen turns off I am back in cultural comfort. Having to struggle with the negatives of being perceived foreign is something I only deal with in spaces I can turn safely off, hearing how it feels for someone who experiences daily in real life as well definitely helped give me a broader picture on those who live in that situation.
This is very much on point. You're pretty much said everything I have been thinking of more eloquently than I could.
I have come to enjoy your essays.
Good stuff indeed.
@El Negro
I think this is the point where I'm starting to loathe these essays, because with examples of Anna May Wong, and learning Lucy Lui got a star on the Holly wood walk of fame has me like:"Why am I learning this crap now?"
It's irritating, as I feel I should've known about these things before this.
I agree it would have been very interesting and relatable to see how Shang Chi's treatment between the two societies affected him in the film. I grew up in rural America, American Chinese. Half Chinese, with a deep passion for Asian culture and a good understanding of western culture. To be honest, I never have felt part of either society completely, Asian or American. No one has been outwardly rude to me (minus some jokes), but it has been strange going into a grocery being the only Asian or even going to Chinatown and being seen as a foreigner...or not a "full" Asian. Now I am studying Japanese and planning to live and work abroad. Whatever may come, I always remember that I have a place with my friends and family, and the people who see me for who I am is enough. Great video.
I think there's a balance to be struck between movies that address the issues Asian-Americans face, and movies that are about other things entirely but feature Asian leads. There's only so much you can fit in 120 minutes, in my opinion.
Yeah, as an asian american, I really don't want another immigrant movie about "bUt wHeRE Do i bELoNG??"
Representation doesn't mean shoving diaspora identity issues into every film lol
@@qwertyuiopqwertywert I kinda agree but movie about this issues is rarely get made or highlighted,
@@aidilmubarock5394 They get made for every culture all the time. That's not the only immigrant story worth telling.
@@qwertyuiopqwertywert can you give me recommendations for these kind of movies since I rarely find it
@@aidilmubarock5394 Off the top of my head? All the most recent popular movies featuring asian leads. The Farewell was especially good. If you like musicals, In the Heights recently came out ft latin american immigrants. If you like TV shows, several episodes of Kim's Convenience. Chances are, if there's a non-white lead actor, the movie/show will probably have "perpetual foreigner" themes. If you don't see them, you either rarely watch non-white movies or need to get better at examining the content ur watching. Probably the former tbh, movies with non-white immigrant leads rarely make it big, but when they do, it's usually about how they're an immigrant. Like thanks, but can we have some variety now. It's like how every gay movie that came out for years was about homophobia. Clearly homophobia's a huge and real issue for the gay community, but it's nice to just watch a movie that's just a gay lead doing ANYTHING else than *struggling with the homophobia.* I didn't like Call Me by Your Name, but at least it had that going for it.
I wear tzitziot (fringes) on my waist, which is typically an orthodox Jewish thing. So a lot of people ask me who I think is gonna win the world series.
Tell them that you don't have the time and need to hurry to the mikve and later read the shema out loud.
Throw some matzoh balls at them and run lmao.
Because orthodox jews play baseball?
@@appa609 I could be wrong, but I am sure back in the day an infamous Jewish Mobster fixed the world series.
@@thatindiandude4602 ty for clearing that up, i was confused.
As a first gen Asian American, I had a mixed feeling after watching Shang chi. While I recognize the importance of having an Asian superhero, I always felt the movie was just another extension of the Kung Fu trope Hollywood has long pigeonholed Asian community in. It does very little to represent the Asian American experience as you mentioned. I loved your analysis of Black Panther and Winter Soldier's poignant narratives to highlight the social and systemic issues facing the black community and agree with you in this aspect, Shang chi feels like a missed opportunity by comparison. While martial arts is certainly a proud part of the Asian culture, it is time for Hollywood to expand their perspective and paint a more nuanced and realistic narrative of the Asian experience. Luckily for us, one such film just released in theaters, Blue Bayou. Not only does the film highlights an importance social issue within America, it also features an Asian lead that is completely original, incredibly complex, deeply flawed, and instinctively human. This is the type of boundary pushing representation our community need and deserve. I hope we can support it with the same enthusiasm as Shang Chi.
Hollywood tries to chase two types of films in their Westerns and action movies: Wu sha and Samurai basically they see how successful Akira Kurosawa and John Wu movies are and constantly try to replicate their magic.
I grew up watching Jackie Chan's movies on TV, his fights we're so amazing and satisfying in a way that "blockbuster movies fights" never felt. Now that you explained, I know why. I got out of the theatre mesmerized and so satisfied with the fights in Shang-Chi! You can't, you won't move your eyes away.
The choreography was so good because they had members of the Jackie Chan stunt arrange it, and gave them camera control.
Correct! Brad Allan was the head stunt coordinator for Shang Chi....and sadly passed before the film was released... :(
I was raised as a third culture kid in 27 countries growing up. Now I live in the country of my birth but I’m still an outsider to many and to myself.
Americans in particular, but many natural citizens that never travel are very blind on what it means to be a foreigner.
Thank you AC for speaking straight to my heart like always.
Not Asian but I have also had the exact same "where are you from?" "Montreal." experiences so a lot of what you said hit close to home.
That said I'm not sure I agree entirely with you. There's definitely a potential you're entirely right. But my impression was that the filmmakers wanted to show a variety of Asian experiences. If we focus just on Shang Chi, sure that's arguably the narrative arc. But, and this is incredibly oversimplified, his sister is clearly less American than he is and he's less American than Katy. That's part of the reason I loved their meal with Wenwu, and not just because Tony Leung, but because here's this variety of lived experiences that overlaps in some areas but not all.
And the parallel could easily be Isaiah and Sam. They're both African-American men, they're both superheroes, vets and they have radically different world views from their different lived experiences. They talk more than once, they never fully agree, but they don't have to. They still understand each other and respect each other. Too often there's this oversimplification you really about where everyone in a racial group must be a monolith with no chance for nuance. The only way to avoid that in a movie is to have as wide a variety of characters and beliefs as possible. Another thing Black Panther did so well was all the differing opinions. Even Nakia and Okoye disagreeing was amazing. Two women, both African from the same country and they're allowed to have a respectful difference of opinions. Shang Chi might not have been as overt but it was similar.
And while I definitely agree with what you said my take away is that this was more origin story rather than what we're going to see from Shang Chi going forward. Trying to avoid spoilers but the end makes me think he and Katy have gone full circle. They've changed, grown, but are still fundamentally the same people who want to do the same things they did before. I'd be very surprised if the next time we Shang Chi he gets another mystical Chinese adventure. He might stop by for a visit but my guess is we'll be getting a West Coast Avengers movie with Shang Chi and Katy along with Scott and Hope or maybe Cassie and Kate.
Maybe I just have hope since I was mildly terrified by the original announcement, Shang Chi was not a good comic. And if I'm wrong I will hunt down this comment and admit I was wrong, just really hope I'm not going to have to.
Yeah I do think the film has a lot of potential. The characters do indeed feel like various Asian Americans. My problem is that this is just background details, and not explored in any meaningful way.
This is also the reason why I'm kinda excited about the almost guarantee sequel. All the potentials are there, all the characters have been established, there should be a lot more room to play with.
@@AccentedCinema
I have been following your channel recently as I was quite intrigued by your breakdown of films in such a technical way yet very digestible and sensible for laymen like myself.
I was in fact hoping you would do one for Shang Chi as well but I honestly didn’t expect that you would go the opposite way of what (at least anecdotally and the raving online reviews) most people (particularly those of Chinese descent) think about the film.
But then again, your perspective has been largely formed through your growing up years of being a minority in your neighbourhood and I guess that’s one key factor that is driving the difference in our opinions.
That being said, I thought I want to share a perspective that might have been missed. To me, what this film is is that it is one that is mostly trying to explore Chinese culture (from Act 2 onwards) in as authentic manner as possible, and as beautiful and breathtaking as possible, with the latest technology and the most talented filmmakers that Marvel has in its arsenal. And I think it has succeeded and even exceeded their own expectations in a way that led them to miscalculate the relationship with China. You see, from China’s perspective, the huge success of this film, and with a cast of mostly very successful Chinese diaspora, is a shameful reminder of China’s failed economic policy during its early formative years under the CCP, which had led to droves and droves of Chinese folks migrating out of the country (my grandparents included). Furthermore, an old interview video of Simu which has recently surfaced saw him talking about how his parents had left China because at that time it was a third world country.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disagreeing with your view point- I’m just putting it out there that there are different perspectives by different people depending on the context. And right now, in my estimation, it seems like your view point will be dwarved by those who will hate it because it will remind them of China’s failed economic policy, and those who actually see it as a successful and authentic showcase of Chinese culture, which is not only carried by the Chinese people in mainland China, but also the wide Chinese diaspora across Southeast Asia (where I’m from btw) and Taiwan.
My two cents, if you don’t mind.
And I still love your content!
Hey, let me first start by saying that I genuinely love all your videos. So many of them are clear, informative, funny, and full of heart. What I want to offer to you though, is another perspective.
Like you, I moved to Canada in my teens, well, late-teens anyway, for university, in my case. I absolutely understand the experience of being a perpetual foreigner. However, I think that there are actually 2 (broadly speaking) immigrant experiences. One is of those who move to a new country with a rich set of experiences in a different one and the other is of the immigrant who actually never immigrated, their parents or grandparents did. I think for second and third generation Asian Americans/Canadians, this movie hits just right - even if it doesn't quite hit right for us 1st Genners. And that doesn't even begin to discuss third culture kids and what their experiences are like.
I think for me, this movie isn't about racialised Chinese Americans/Canadians, it's about a relationship between a father and a son, and to some degree his daughter. I don't think that this makes it a better or worse movie than Black Panther, I think the films are trying to do 2 different things. Shang Chi did so well, I think that future films will have the opportunity to comment more deeply on the racialisation of the Asian American, but that's just not this film. I actually enjoyed this film more than I did Black Panther - and that's not to say there's nothing I'd improve on.
Thanks for another thought-provoking video essay.
oh another though hit me just now. Shang is less either of the two aforementioned categories of immigrant as he is a refugee of sorts. There's some overlap between his experience and that of the North Korean refugee. Just an additional element to throw in to the mix I think, which might explain his longing for his first home - which to be clear, isn't actually China, it's family, which in this case, just happens to be in China.
As someone who is a 3.5 to 4-generation Chinese Canadian (my mom's parents immigrated, and my dad's great-grandparents immigrated) I relate to what you said a lot. For me, I am Chinese-Canadian, but I am Canadian first and Chinese second. I connect with my Chinese roots, but that identity doesn't play as big a role for me as it does for other people. Having grown up in Ottawa, I know far more French than I do Chinese (Mandarin or Cantonese).
I grew up in a community that had its fair share of a lot of different people groups, and I never felt "othered." I suppose I was privileged in that regard.
I don't think that Shang Chi was supposed to talk about the Asian-American/Canadian experience, so while I can understand that criticism, I do think it's somewhat misaimed.
@Accented Cinema I am behavioral therapist in LA county. I recently started working at a Chinese Immersion school. I am the first non Mandarin speaking specialist working with autistic kids. I love it!! We have an African American Women Principal working alongside Asians, Hispanics, Caucasian. Since these kids are a blend of Asian and American cultures. The little 6 year old teach Ms. Laura that mom may be Mandarin bc she was born in China. But dad is Asian bc he is from here. So when i asked if he also was Mandarin she looked at me like "duh, I just said he is Asian who is .American ". She taught me so much that day. Thank you for your channel since i am a lover of any expression or understanding of self through cinema.
I loved the movie but I can't really disagree with any of your points except how heavily to weigh each point. The Shang-Chi team has made a fantastic origin film for Shang-chi. Really concentrating on how he is his father and mother. I think a natural flowing point both narrative and thematically is to explore Shang-chi's American side in the second movie and how he takes what came before and makes it his own.
This is an origin story and thats where the movie took the story
Yeah wanted to say this too. I think juxtaposing Shang-Chi with Black Panther is worthwhile. For myself, I'm happy with direction they took the movie, I didn't need a retread of Killmonger's story arc with a sepia filter (kekeke). But seriously, I feel like that direction might have resulted in an awkwardly executed where they just superficially swapped one oppression story for another and that would've been a disservice to everyone involved. BP centered on a vision of an African nation/culture that wasn't devastated by colonialism and actually possesses greater power*, which demanded a comparison to the alienated and often disempowered/oppressed experience of African Americans. That's not so much the context with Shang-Chi and China as it exists today. The Asian-diaspora experience is distinct and certainly worth exploring further... how you'd represent it is an interesting thing to unpack. The hallmark and authentic approach is one of more subtle subversion. Where the civil rights movements of the 60's was characterized by marches and loud speeches (in the most inspiring way possible), Asian-American stories have centered around not rocking the boat in order to achieve success later and creating our own spaces. And it's this approach that has been criticized more recently, with reasoned demands to "get loud". Which in turn leads to borrowing and potentially appropriating black anti-racism aesthetics... it's a fascinating intersection... I guess we need to see a team up between Black Panther and Shang-Chi!
That’s a good point, the film will naturally lean more heavily of shaun’s Asian heritage as opposed to his American side since this is the story of his past. The video makes a lot of good points and I agree with them, but there’s only so much u can put in a 2 hour movie. Hopefully we get to see more of the Asian American conflict in the next movie
I think that it's worth recognizing that this is an MCU film where the hero has a living parent, on screen, in the present. There's only one other MCU film where that's true. In my opinion, that's honestly a sizable concession from the superhero genre.
Especially when the next movie is set up between the brother that left, and the sister that stayed behind.
I feel like Shang-Chi bit off a little more than it can chew and as much as I love it, it was almost a little too full/ambitious.
And RIP Brad Allan, who brought the beautiful fight choreo & cinematography of Jack Chan to the MCU.
But aren't that like all of Marvel movies? they are all too full and ambitious.
@@helpraznidentitystopanti-a3946 captain Marvel was pretty empty. That film definitely played it "safe". The captain america films had just the right amount of content and told the story they wanted to tell. I'd even put the first Iron Man, and The Incredible Hulk up there for films that accomplished exactly what they wanted to do without feeling like they were trying to do too much, nor were they missing anything.
Indeed, RIP Brad Allan.
I think huge gamble is a better word than too ambitious. I think the ambition is a good thing. It's the gamble Shang Chi takes because China/Hong Kong are known for producing numerous Kung Fu / Martial Arts movies. Then we have to look at the misconceptions many have as if Disney/Marvel is trying to make a better Chinese movie than China could make. Longtime Martial Arts fans should not expect Shang Chi to be any better than classics like Fist of Legend or Drunken Master 2 . What we should look for is entertainment value and how refreshing it is as a new movie.
I feel this hard. I think the best handled example of this topic I’ve seen was the episode in Bojack Horseman when Diane visits Vietnam. Everybody sees her as a foreigner, from locals, to even other American tourists. I think you’d love that episode and it would even make for a really good follow up video to this :)
Think the scene where Wen Wu addresses the name of Mandarin did it well and Shang Chi talking about when he was young how he got bullied and Katy protecting him, but ofcourse it aint as big as Falcon and winter soldier. But it also hard to have written it with Asian Hate crime to be a thing in the Marvel Universe as there isn't something leading to it, plus on purpose have a sudden racist scene for sake of racism has become quite a stereotypical thing that happens in a lot of shows and movies, the problem with many of them is that they make it as if being racist to Asian is just too casual. Also I don't think this movie would had been the place for such a message and there be better movies ahead they could tackle this issue.
I do love the "asian american" part of the movie, when Shang chi just hanging out in San Francisco with Katy.
But I also love the old kungfu movie vibe when the movie goes full gear. I don't think it's a bad thing at all
"Regular Asian American stuff... you know, like disappointing your elders" 😭🤘🏾😄
The part i really likes about Shang chi is the whole soundtrack album is legit🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Both the soundtrack and the original score are quite good.
Also Hotel California is always a win.
I thought it was pretty decent but the most stellar example of showcasing the Chinese sound in a pop culture soundtrack I've heard so far is the Liyue section of the Genshin Impact soundtrack scored by Chen Pengyu. If Disney-Marvel could somehow get their hands on him to do the score, it would be amazing.
This was some really good perspective I hadn’t considered before. Honestly, I feel like this film almost “had” to be this way, just because of how common the “finding your roots” trope is with asian films. They set that one up right out of the gate.
But, it does mean they got that out of the way. I’m hoping that the next film then tackles Shang-Chi having to integrate the asian-ness he’s recently come to terms with with his American-ness and how he has basically just been recruited by a diverse, multi-dimensional superhero organization.
Or how about we skip the whole race and ethnicity struggle theme and actually tune into the problems Shang Chi may have as A MARVEL SUPERHERO AND HOW HE FINDS A ROLE AMONGST OTHER MARVEL SUPERHEROES
@@rufertss3307 That's a great way to completely ignore the role of culture and race in cinema both as a device explicitly used by Hollywood to explicitly speak about certain issues, and as something that simply always affects any type of art because art is influenced by the culture it is created in - both perpetuating the culture it comes from, in addition to reinforcing or criticizing it.
I'd give a longer reply, but Accented Cinema already made a great video explaining what good representation in movies means to the people that watch them, and you've demonstrated a wonderful ability to ignore that.
@@ATTACKofthe6STRINGS really. And that is you speaking from someone who is informed about Hong Kong, Mainland Chinese and Taiwanese cinema are you?
@@ATTACKofthe6STRINGS Life in Asia is much larger than just race. Taking such a huge emphasis on examining race in cinema is not only ethnocentric but a very American way of approaching film critique and analysis. So how about you think twice about the lens in which you view life before calling another's opinion as ignorant
@@rufertss3307 If you're calling me ignorant, you're calling Accented Cinema ignorant as well, since I basically told you that all I could say is everything Accented Cinema just highlighted in this very video.
But here are some bullet points of my comment, Accented Cinema's video, what's been said so far.
1) I said that I hadn't considered Accented Cinema's perspective on this topic.
Since I'm not Chinese American, but I love seeing cultures respectfully represented in media, I felt that Shang-Chi was a well done Kung-Fu movie that did well to respect Chinese mysticism without necessarily boiling it down into disrespectful tropes.
2) Accented Cinema basically agreed with this idea, but was disappointed that the movie focused so heavily on the Chinese part of Chinese American.
From what I understood, he liked the movie because it did a great job providing us with a culturally respectful portrayal of eastern mysticism and Chinese kung-fu action, but was disappointed that it failed to highlight the American part of being Chinese American, and the struggles that come with being a mixed race individual searching for an identity that essentially falls between two cultures. He gives examples of how American media heavily focuses on the foreign aspects of someone's heritage, but doesn't yet do a good job of focusing on the parts that Americans share. As a Chinese American, he was personally hoping that such a prominent movie, made by a talented and well known studio, would finally represent the American side of the Chinese American equation better than movies in the past
3) You hopped in and said "none of this matters, stop making race such a big issue when it isn't such a big issue in Asia".
That's all fine and dandy, but we aren't in Asia. I can't comment on those issues and how asians feel about this movie, and Accented Cinema implies that he can't really do so that well either.
Shang-Chi was made by an American studio for primarily American audiences based off of American comics
4) I replied that listening to you is a great way to ignore the role of race in media, and how media both reflects the culture it was produced in and reinforces it. I also said I could speak more on **how media reflects and reinforces culture**, but that Accented Cinema already did a good job of doing so, which you ignored.
5) You criticized me for being ethnocentric and looking at this movie from an American lens.
Yeah, I am.
As a mixed race Latin American, how movies choose to portray racial issues is something I'm affected by and interested in speaking about.
As a mixed race Chinese American, how movies choose to portray racial issues is something Accented Cinema is affected by, and chose willingly to speak about.
This movie was made in America.
This movie was made primarily by Americans.
This move was made primarily for Americans.
So, while there are plenty of other valid topics to discuss regarding this movie that all deserve their own, well made video to address them, Accented Cinema is the one that chose to take hours out of his day to make a 10-15 minute video for us to watch about this one specific topic.
To use your own words:
Life in America is greatly impacted by race. Taking such a huge emphasis on examining race is not only ethnocentric, but a very American way of film critique and analysis.
How about you think twice before trying to tell others that your way of thinking about a movie is more valid then theirs when you live in a completely different place both culturally and geographically.
Stop projecting your ignorance on me. Just because race isn't a big deal to you doesn't mean it isn't a big deal to Accented Cinema or to me.
I love your perspectives and videos!
Every time there are Asians in Hollywood films you can always expect them to talk about honor LMAO
This is an interesting take on the movie. I'd really like to see how Shang-chi 2 will turn out since Black Panther debuted in another movie (Captain America: Civil War) whereas Shang-chi debuted its own hero in the first movie. Since Shang-chi and Katy had so little time in SF (gotta fit that cool fight scene and give it enough time to introduce what to expect), it'll be interesting to see if he'll face any of the "otherisms" you mentioned at home later down the line in the sequel (there wouldn't be enough time to go into that in a mash-up movie).
It's similar in the next part because the fight club is essentially made up of a diverse group of people who see different cultures so no one is going to out Shang-chi for that (and he's already eFamous). In the compound, you're not going to "other" the boss' son and the organization is made up of a diverse male-centric force. After that, you're in a mystical place where the "otherism" is lightly cast on Katy.
As much as I crap on this movie, I am really excited for next films (Both the Eternals and the eventual Shang-Chi 2). Like you said, now that both the characters and the phase 4 world has been established, they should have a lot more space to work in bits and pieces of these experiences.
I felt Katys experience, being unfamiliar with cultural roots but also eager to learn more
Being Korean-American, I too have had the question "where are you really from" asked, even though I was born in the US. I can also distinctly remember people asking, either joking or completely serious if I was related to Kim Jong-Ill because my last name is Kim (which btw is the most common last name in Korea. It's basically Smith or Gonzalez).
I could never really put into words the weird feeling of it always being assumed I was a foreigner even though I was born here, so I thank you for putting it better than I could.
I have an additional problem of being assumed Chinese because I don’t have a common Korean surname.
I often mistaken for Mexican despite being Asian, I also got your problem until I move away to different place after college, then it's all gone. The place I am staying now with so many people from different countries that I feel more at home and truly feel like I belong to.
Why? Because I came to US to find a better place to live in and most immigrants also have the same purpose. Although we often think about ours home country, but if ask whether we want to come back, most people in my community said it is good to visit once in a while, but life here in US is much much better for many of us who came here willingly.
There's also the irony that the person asking that question, unless they're of indigenous/First Nations/Native American background, aren't really "from here" either' Maybe we should start asking them back....
Hey to the Korean-Americans in this chat, do you find Kim's Convenience a good representation? I just started watching (because I wanted to see more of Simu Liu's work)... But sometimes I worry it's a problematic show, as lots of jokes are based on the parents' heavy accents and how they pronounce words. Apologies if this is off-topic, but seems relevant to the Asian-American representation question.
@@ChristopherDraws yeah I'm Mexican but the show made me uncomfortable. The actor's fake heavy accents sound embarrassing and unconvincing. Jackie Chan for example sounds fine in English with his accent, but choosing an actor without an accent and making him use one did not work out, at leasy for my ears.
It feels like big bang theory but for Asians, where the characters and storylines come from a mostly white creative team's IDEA of what a Korean Canadian family might say and do. It doesn't feel accurate to me at all.
I like your points, but I feel like I have to disagree with you. Let me explain:
Earlier in the film, we are told that moving on is an American idea. Thusly, Wenwu, who is fully Chinese, cannot bring himself to move on. The reason why Shaun is a hero and can defeat Wenwu is because he uses his eastern training to fight for his American ideas - he wants his father to move on, but the only way he can get through to his father is through the Chinese arts he was taught. In other words, Shaun becomes a perfect synthesis of Asia and America and that is why he wins in the end: He is a true "Asian-American".
Of course, after he uses western ideals to fight against an eastern villain, Shaun then uses an eastern dragon to defeat a western one. In this, too, he is also synthesising what makes him a westerner and an easterner to do what neither on their own can do. There are things that Shaun cannot understand about both worlds (Watch his first reaction to Morris, for example) and there are things that both worlds cannot understand about Shaun (Watch how Wenwu is disappointed in the trajectory of his son's life, for example). That's why I think this film actually represents Asians from the west like myself really well.
I haven't seen the movie because my scheduled booster shot is in October (I'm barred from cinemas, in other words, for the time being), but I read these comments to catch a glimpse of the themes I should look out for. What you described is what I most hope to see in this movie as a Malaysian Chinese who thinks her authenticity as a human lies in being a synthesis of cultures and lived experience rather than strictly one.
Your comment gives me hope and I cannot wait to experience the film in October.
@@lyndiss.2017 Keep in mind though that cultural blending is mostly a western idea, which is why any other hero who does this I could just label as western. What Shang Chi does, though, is use eastern methods to achieve his western synthesis, which is what I find really impressive and uplifting.
I don't see many people having this reading of the film, though... maybe I'm just reading into it too much haha
When you see it, please tell me what you think! It's SUCH a good movie.
I pay this tithe to the holy algorithm, may your channel have many views. Your voice is appreciated and needed in the TH-cam space.
Bro I respect your perspective and work on this video. I actually love you. Haha cheers from Montreal. I was born and raised here and still feel like a foreigner.
It's problematic that many forms of media involving East Asians or East Asian culture is too often labeled as "pandering to China." Do we automatically assume media based on Europe such as movies about ancient Rome, medieval knights, or Arthurian legends is pandering to Europe? Maybe Western audiences simply like that stuff and it's not actually pandering. Why do we add this racially tinged notion that so often assume East Asian stuff is simply pandering to China?
I agree. Ta Lo is cool in the same way that knights slaying dragons is cool.
Because people hate China so anything that is neutral or positive about China is automatically pandering.
The reality is that China is a huge market and now studios are making creative decisions with China in mind. For example, in one of the transformers movies the third act abruptly moves to HK and introduces a couple new characters to quickly show some Chinese heroics on screen. The Chinese government also moves to "protect Hong Kong".
Unfortunately there are other implications of this. Disney has seemed to be dragging their feet on LGBTQ representation, offering only a couple blink and you miss it scenes that are edited out for Chinese release. It also means that studios are encouraged to make films that translate easily to Chinese, such as action flicks, and less on culturally specific things such as adult comedies or political dramas.
@@elmohead it's so sad. People need to differentiate between China's citizen and it's government.
I mean they assume that because it's actually happening. But doesn't mean you can assume
Man I'm not Chinese but as asian damn you're videos makes me so nostalgic and happy . Brings back so much memorys from your video nice . keep up the good work man
AC: "....I grew up to look like a serial killer."
Me: Hol up!
I'd just like to say thank you. Thank you for your well thought out and considered videos. And yeah, the whole where are you really from, I've heard that asked to others many times. It always bothers me. Thank you for having the self restraint and gracious personality to not just slap people. Love everything I've seen from the channel and now subscribed.
This idea of being a perpetual foreigner is also known as being a third-culture kid (TCK). I am Vietnamese-Czech living in Australia. No matter in which country I am or what social circle I interact with, I never feel like I belong. I am always reminded that I am different in one way or another. Being a TCK has made me socially anxious all the time even though I do very well hiding it and being comfortably sociable which is another quite common characteristic of TCK. And as you pointed out, it is something that is missing from Shang-Chi that would make it a even greater movie.
0:15 Yes, i have had similar experiences in NY through out the years. I remember some kids making fun of me as I was walking towards the subway.
Since that incident I always hold on to a AM NY newspaper whenever I'm in the subway to subtly show that I am a New Yorker and that I speak English.
I see it differently. You have some very valid points, and I agree that there's room to highlight the struggle of the Asian diaspora in being a perpetual foreigner. However, I don't think the lack of that highlight necessarily detracts from this movie. To me, I feel like the social purpose of this movie was to simply show the western world that we exist and live normal lives as Americans, along with the cultural differences that distinguish Asian-Americans from other minorities; that the purpose is the normalization of Asians in western pop media.
I also think that the core conflict of the story is still a very Asian-immigrant-centered conflict, in which the main character is being pressured by his family to become the person he was raised to become instead of being the person he's satisfied with being. Living up to this type of "we've laid out a path to success for you" parental pressure is particularly an Asian-diaspora conflict.
Going back to how Marvel addresses the issues facing the African-American community, we could see something similar happening for Asian-American representation as well.
Black Panther certainly touches on modern societal issues facing black people in America more than Shang Chi does for Asian-Americans, but most of that film was an escape fantasy to a fictional country that feels like a different world in which black people thrive and their culture is embraced. Black Panther is a good movie whose primary conflict wasn't necessarily the racial struggles of the main character; the core conflict of BP was T'Challa discovering the darker things T'Chaka did and deciding to become a better king than his predecessors. BP served to normalize black representation in movies that don't have to be centrally tied to racism (I'm aware racism is a part of the movie, but mainly as a motivation for the villain that the protagonist can learn from. The core conflict of BP was T'Challa discovering the darker things T'Chaka did and deciding to become a better king than his predecessors.)
Later on, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier dives more deeply into the real issues, highlighting the wrongs that have been - and still are - committed to that community more directly. The automatic assumptions of the police in the show, Falcon being labeled as "Black Falcon" or "Steve's wingman", Isaiah's erased history, and Sam's struggle to fully accept the shield for those reasons are all centrally tied to the racial issues plaguing America.
The same can be said for Asian-Americans, with Shang Chi being the equivalent to Black Panther here. The core conflict of Shang Chi's character isn't tied to a racial issue; it's about him becoming better than what his father made him to be. Ta Lo is similar to Wakanda in acting as a sort of escape fantasy. Shang Chi and Xialing are essentially the 2nd generation immigrant children from their 1st generation immigrant mother, but to see them so quickly be embraced into Ta Lo is something many Asian immigrants wish could happen. (I'd also like to point out the first thing that confronts these two in Ta Lo is the Ta Lo people telling them to leave and that they aren't a part of Ta Lo anymore, hinting at the perpetual foreigner.)
As a Chinese-American myself, I got all I ever wanted from this film. My expectations were to have us be represented accurately in western pop culture, and that has been achieved. While I also want for there to be a story that touches on the perpetual foreigner issue (A potential Disney+ series - maybe Ms. Marvel? - for Shang Chi as The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was to Black Panther), I think it's also important to normalize the different cultures before that issue is tackled. This way, general audiences would not only be able to understand the cultural conflict more, but also so that the non-American culture isn't portrayed as negative, but instead multi-faceted, showing the good along with the bad.
I really really wish that Asian American doesn’t equate to the experiences of Chinese Americans, we may have similarities but that doesn’t necessarily mean we have the same mindset. I don’t feel “represented” when this film portrays a Chinese American.
@@Laura-Yu I understand that. At least in the beginning of the movie, I think most East-Asian-Americans could relate to all the small little things they highlighted and get a little joy from that. I think it makes sense for Chinese-Americans to be the first to be represented as we're the largets Asian hyphenated demographic across the world, and it makes for a good starting point. In the future, I would love to see more Asian cultures be highlighted. I know we're getting Ms. Marvel, which should delve a bit into Pakistani culture, but I'd personally love to see a project featuring Japanese culture or Korean culture as well
@@AndrewDeng the only relatability I have with the characters are us being East Asians living in the US. Other than that, I don’t have a Korean first name and I grew up in the suburbs with mostly white/Hispanic population (aka I didn’t live near a Koreatown). It’s a shame how just having an Asian American face somehow makes it a big deal or relatable to every Asian American.
@@Laura-Yu Okay. Hope you get a korean superhero movie soon.
@@Laura-Yu well Shang-chi himself is a Chinese superhero so naturally the film would focus more on Chinese Americans. It would also probably be too much for the film to take on if it tried to represent every Asian demographic at once.
Man, I was so thrilled that this movie even came out (Chinese-American here) and enjoyed it so much when watching it that I didn't really consider how quickly the "American" part of Asian-American got dropped in the film, and I do agree that I wish that part/Shang-Chi grappling with his identity was more fleshed out than it was.
Still, what were your thoughts on Tony Leung's performance in the movie? The only other film I had seen with him was *The Grandmaster* a long time ago, but I thought that regardless of the other flaws in the movie Wenwu absolutely stole the show whenever he was in a scene.
Go watch all of those movies in his Tony Leung video essay, stat. He's amazing.
Yooo, did you see his essay on Tony Leung's eye acting? It'll make you want to watch all his Wong Kar-Wai films th-cam.com/video/IUwsTHGY4Ms/w-d-xo.html
I don't think the "american" part was dropped at all, esp since awkwafina was supposed to be our stand-in character anyway, and I never got the impression she felt at home in China. Also, Shang-Chi and Katy ARE american, they just are - how else did you want it represented? Cringy "wow that's different from how AMERICA does it" jokes all the time while they were in china? They don't need to keep proving they're american for the whole film...it's not like we expect white people in foreign countries to keep proving their american-ness.
How can you expect people to accept you as one of them if you maintain blood and soil connection to your homeland and culture?
@@Miquelalalaa I don't know, how does a professional sports team constantly integrate players from different states with different cultures within the USA? We do this shit every day in our professional and private lives over differences we choose to believe aren't a dealbreaker. Because we choose to embrace what we do have in common. Some Christians will embrace another Christian as one of their own from across the world. For others it will be over a videogame they play together, or over an art they both love. And at the end of the day we all share in humanity and this world. We live in a globalized world where the fate of the world is all our fates. Our blood is human blood and our culture is human culture, with all the subcultures within, be it national cultures, ethnic cultures, professional cultures, hobbiest cultures, or just the culture you share within your close friends.
As a fellow Canadian, I'm so sorry for the comments that people have given you. You are Canadian, despite what people tell you brotha.
Also as far as the stuck between two worlds thing, I'd recommend that you look into TCKs (Third Culture Kids), sounds like you feel like one of us TCKs.
AC, i want to thank you and your work on this channel for both educating me about things i wouldn't have known otherwise and for helping me (and others i'm sure) to challenge my own biases and think more deeply about what, why, and how i think. it fills me with grief to hear about the firsthand experiences of yourself and those who came before you, but it also deeply motivates me to do my best in building a world where such bigotry and hate isn't allowed to propagate.
客家人 talking to perpetual foreigners：
"First time, huh?"
What a good way to start one's evening, watching another of your interesting, and intellectually as well as aesthetically entertaining, videos. And it's episode no. 70 already! Wow. And thanks.
Thank you. This raised some serious diaspora feelings in me and my beef with 'Asian Gatekeeping'. As a first-generation immigrant who had to go through high school life in North America, it was ridiculous to think that the conversations that I was having with my fellow Chinese would be of a similar vein with those actually in Asia. It was a farce and I ended up internalizing some serious self-loathing and an unnecessary superiority complex. For me, I needed stories that didn't try to be a watered version of what I left behind, nor a slap in the face for not being able to be something I could never be (white).
So here we are. I'm still super excited to see Shang Chi though. I'm just excited to see where this leads us.
I rarely comment on the internet but I'm gonna make an exception here: As a Canadian who has lived in Quebec, I know for a fact that you're speaking from experience with regards to your opening comments in the video because I've heard it myself and seen it on many occasions. I'm sorry you had to go through that. It still happens and I can't stand it. Keep up the good work, I enjoy your content.
Fiest generation french here. Mother immigrated in Europe, from Hong Kong. Grew up in asian chinese cummunity
I'm not even finished with this video yet and it's hitting too hard. You're work is amazing
As someone who is mixed (I choose not to disclose what I’m mixed with because people develop preconceived notions or flat out throw labels). I can’t tell you how much of this video I feel got Shang Chi wrong. I don’t believe the movie was trying to be what you said it was trying to be. Yes China is important in the movie but it’s not the focus. The focus is much more a interpersonal story for Shang Chi and Wen Wue (The Mandarin). I understand wanting exactly what you want but in a way, it puts the piss in what is otherwise, a great origin movie at the likes of Black Panther. Shang Chi focused heavily on a burdened father and his insatiable expectations set on Shang Chi and often I presume many Chinese children feel growing up. Even his sister only being seen as delicate and unable to be a warrior which speaks for itself as to what it’s speaking for in concerns to Chinese culture. Overall, I understand your feelings and grievances but I do not at all feel this movie was the movie to be the one to necessarily address these issues but rather be a love letter to just Asian culture in general. If anyone would like to see something more social and political. There’s an amazing show by the name of “Warrior”. Stories based on writings from Bruce Lee. I believe you should check that out and also show Shang Chi love. I want to see more Asian cast films and more representation for the culture whether it be Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. I firmly believe not supporting Shang Chi 100% sends the wrong message. I’ve watched it and plan on watching it again and genuinely love the movie and believe it to be one of Marvels best movies next to my favorites Captain America and Black Panther.
Interesting take on this movie. As an Asian from Malaysia, I consider this movie as a first step for how Shang Chi was introduced in the MCU. Your take on Black Panther and The Falcon was quite unfair as those 2 characters were introduced and established in other movies before they get their solo movies/series. Compared to these 2 characters, Shang Chi was completely unknown to the audience and had a disturbing racist background in comics, which is his father is Fu Manchu. So, the way you concluded it as 'pandering' to China disappoints me, because it is a shallow take without deep analysis. So, how else the Chinese in the West, Taiwan, Hong Kong and even SE Asia region such as myself could have resonance with this character if this movie aim for China? News flash: Even Indians are asking Marvel to make a movie about an Indian superhero, as they celebrates Shang Chi.
Plus, I think the very first movie was to deliver a message: To embrace your roots and break the stereotypes of Asian on screen. For Asians, especially Chinese, we tend to let go of our roots and traditions in order to fit into Western society, which could be positive and negative at the same way, which is why Katy's mother said, "Letting go is American value.' This is to tell most Asians to never gave up or be ashamed of their identity for the sake to fit into Western society.
Break the stereotypes. Shang Chi's existence and Simu's performance is indeed to break on how Western always perceive on us on screen, especially in time where US have the rise of Anti Asian hate crimes. We always seen as sidekicks, first to die, not sexual attractive, and do not have a sense of humor. Shang Chi existed to break all that: He is no sidekick, can handle things on his own, physical attractive and had a sense of humor.
You may argued that we had Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan's movies, but those movies usually have villains who are white, or Asians who affiliated with the West or Japan. And those movies never broke any Asian stereotypes on screen, but it could somehow worsen it. Asian Americans does not see Jackie Chan as their superhero, and Chinese community hated him for being CCP advocator and a playboy. Besides, given to China's entertainment laws, it could be hard for us to see Jackie Chan produced any movies in the future any time soon.
Agree. As an Asian from Singapore, all I could feel was psyched to see Chinese ethnicity on the big screen, aimed towards a worldwide audience. Admittedly, I might not understand the plight of Asians who are minorities in other countries and subject to racism, but had the movie become an "Asian-American" movie as opposed to just "Asian" movie, I probably wouldn't have connected to it as much. I don't feel that Shang Chi is meant to serve as a whole representation of any one Asian group's experience (there's so many of us), but rather, simply showing the best parts of Asian culture to a worldwide audience that would otherwise not even know, and I feel achieved with that.
I agree... Frankly, as Filipinos, we never had the chance to completely embrace our identity. Almost everything celebrated as Filipino is always associated with another culture: Chinese, Spanish & American. That's why I enjoy shows like Shang-Chi... Stories that celebrate roots, that remind them to never forget there's something different inside you... That you are not an American, you don't have to be indebted that they made you. You are you. You are Chinese before American, you are a Filipino before a Spanish Colony or an American charity case... You are unique enough to stand on your own as an equal on the world stage... In a way shows like this is somewhat an escape, a dream that if we weren't colonized or changed or looked down upon, would we have something glorious or unified to be proud of? Will we have a history of our own that we can fully remember & show off? I know it's tone-deaf and a sentiment not shared by many (I know most of us are content being such) and the topic centers on how Asian culture is presented to the west to which I admit, stories like these are what we need. Stories that show that otherness should be respected & accepted, that show different things don't need to blend in & fade with the masses but shine & harmonize with the world.
"So, how else the Chinese in the West, Taiwan, Hong Kong and even SE Asia region such as myself could have resonance with this character if this movie aim for China?"
Well for starters, all these countries are incredibly Westernized, in fact, people of ethnic Chinese descent in Singapore and probably Malaysia as well are increasingly becoming monolingual English speakers and more people in Hong Kong can speak English than Mandarin lol
@@sarahs.thorpe857 Lol, Westernised? Have you even interact with Malaysian Chinese or even Taiwanese? Besides, that is my point for this video, this guy treat this movie as pandering to China, while it is not. The Mainland China doesn't even have the chance to watch this movie. Even Indians felt resonance with Shang Chi and now asking Marvel to have an Indian superhero movie, that is the power of this movie, more representation for Asians in MCU, and Shang Chi is the only beginning. Not some shallow analysis from this guy's essay video.
How does shang chi break any stereotypes that actual Asian movies didn't
This just sounds like needing validation from Disney.
And you know what maybe people really do need that validation and maybe it isn't bad.
But I'm not asking Disney for that. If a creator wants to do it then good. I hope no one stops them.
I think of all your wonderful videos you've made over the years, this one impacted me the most.
9:49 now you really do sound like my dad
I liked your points a lot. I thought Awkwafina's character filled the role of grappling with being Chinese-American a lot better. Which makes sense, she did a great job in The Farewell. But I do wish that the producers of Shang-Chi had the courage to go further in exploring Chinese-Americans, and China and American relationships. But Marvel doesn't have that courage, and I honestly don't expect that from them, so I'm not that disappointed. For being mainstream and being Marvel, it did what it was suppose to, entertain me for 2 hours.
I went in to watch the film as a South-East Asian. I felt extremely proud and happy for the Asian community to get recognition at this scale, be humanized and be represented so beautifully. I appreciated the nods at Chinese cinema as well and even though I am not a part of that community I felt pride as someone adjacent to it.
I really appreciate your perspective, because I did see a lot of positive reception but had not seen any critiques until this video. I especially appreciate it as this is a good reminder as to how the community being represented are who matters the most--even as an Asian my opinion and perspective ended up being so different from yours, as it is pinpointed to your specific history and culture. Although I felt some sort of familiarity and sense of recognition just by virtue of being Asian and specifically seeing East Asians, this video lifted a curtain and helped me see what was missing from the movie. I don't mean to emphasize how Asians of my flavour and your flavour are different or any of that, I would hate to perpetuate that sort of idea--but I think this was a distinct experience for Chinese Americans and you pointing this out was a really valuable reminder.
We should be able to want more and ask for more, rather than calling it a day and sitting down content. (And also still be able to critique something that we do infact, love).
How about start acting humans irl?
I agree about being able to critique things we love! I just don't think his critique is valid and feels almost like an attempt to stand out from the shang-chi-adoring crowd, when really most of the things he said about being an immigrant or first gen is annoyingly cliche to ppl within the community.
Me, an Anglo visiting Montreal - "Holy shit, these people in Chinatown are TRILINGUAL. I've wasted my life."
That's how I feel as a Filipino American remembering my parents. Tagalog wasn't even their native language. They told me their university classmates used to comment on their weird accents when they moved to Manila.
Most human beings outside of North America are multilingual.
I simply love your videos. Your perspectives, way of editing, seemingly infinite resources. Its so refreshing. THank you so much for letting us know new and founded perspectives all around
0:44 i took an africana studies class and even tho im not a Black person, I'm a Chinese American and this line she said still resonates with me, "If America doesn't love you and Africa doesn't know you, where is your home?"
....cept obviously in my case it's China instead of Africa as in the states, I'm "asian" but back in my parent's hometown, I'm an American.
As a half Swiss and Half Japanese, I didn't think that my experience is in a sense similar to Asian-Americans. I look foreign in both countries. Most of my life I've lived in Switzerland as the token "Asian" in a group. But now here in Japan, my way of living as a Swiss stands out. I'm slowly getting used to the behaviours here and don't stand out that much anymore, but I will probably until I die. It's a very weird feeling and makes me lost at times, but having multiple perspectives on things can also be a wonderful treasure. Thank you for making this video, it's relieving to know there are others who can understand this dilemma.
With the success of this movie, I'm sure there's a sequel coming. Hopefully, after building Shang-Chi's foundation in this movie, they can do more awesome fight scenes, characters and tackle those themes in the next one.
Here is the thing. Focusing on fights and spectacle is an easier way to capture the large audience, instead of exploring ABC entrapment that only some of us can relate or worse: understand. So u cannot fault them for it.
Shang Chi the movie had every odds stacked against it. Even more couldve broken its neck.
I agree, a movie only has at most 150m to say and do everything. An origin movie has to cover a lot of ground. It did what it could and does explore ideas relevant to us. It may not have tackled all of our issues or even the biggest ones but it did incorporate key themes. The movie succeeding means we will have more opportunity to explore those ideas in the future. In other works as well as more MCU films.
Ronny encapsulated it perfectly with the line "Don't worry, I speak ABC"
I'm so glad I stumbled on this video and this channel. As a Nisei born and raised in the New York Metro Area (my father is Issei from Nagoya who moved to the US in the 1960's), I often have difficulty finding a narrative that connects with me. I don't feel Japanese in any way (despite loving my heritage and feeling a sense of pride in my legacy), and I naturally feel very out of place when I visit my cousins in Japan. But almost daily I face reminders that I am not at home in the United States either. From "Where are you really from?" to "You brought COVID here" to "Go back to your own country" (as if my distinctly New Jersey accent weren't enough to convince people that this is where I'm from), I cannot help but feel, as you so aptly put it, perpetually a foreigner.
Thank you so much for this video. I look forward to watching more of your content.
I'm late to this discussion, and might not be contributing anything new, but, as a mixed non-Asian American, I didn't even consider the fact that most of the runtime is spent outside of the U.S. That's a very good point; one that didn't even cross my mind.
Yet still, from my outside perspective, the movie was EXTREMELY Asian American. I was actually surprised. Pleasantly shocked, I would say. Walking out of the theater, I thought "How did Destin Daniel Cretton get away with this?! How did the studio heads not force him to appeal directly to China?" That's because the Asian Americans in this movie reminded me of all the Asian American friends I've had growing up. They would tell stories of identity struggles they faced in childhood, or commiserate about a racist encounter they recently had, but for the most part, we were all part of multi-ethnic friend groups of...normal Americans. Of course, that may just be representative of the specific social classes in the specific regions of California where I spent my entire early life, but it made me look at this film and go "Yep. Those are some American-ass Americans right there."
It's kinda' how I felt when watching the Animated Mulan. As opposed to the live-action remake, the animated film - despite taking place entirely in ancient China - felt American to the core; in terms of characterization, dialogue, and theme. This is part of the reason why the CCP said "HELL NO!" to that film back in '98, and why Disney was hoping they'd embrace the remake with open arms thanks to them basically saying "This time, we're goin' SUPER Chinese! Non o' that American cartoon nonsense!" But what they ended up with, ironically, was a representation of what you talk about here: The remake was not Chinese enough for China, not American enough for America. Shang-Chi, on the other hand, feels similar to the '98 Mulan, in that it is appealing directly and specifically to Chinese Americans, despite the plot not involving Chinese American racial-tensions. Rather, the struggles both Shang and Katy face are very relatable struggles for Americans in general, and Millennials in particular: having no real direction in life, being over-qualified for work you can't/don't want to do, not living up to your potential, not living up to your parents expectations, being what others want you to be vs. what you want to be, etc. But these are also universal, and here tied specifically to their Chinese identities as well via the plot.
I wonder how resonant this average-American-ness is to the majority of USAsians. 'Cause it seems to me that the Chinese government is, once again, saying "What is this American bullcrap?!" To a story targeting and celebrating Asians in general, but American ones in particular. I feel like I've typed the word "American" too much, and it looks weird. Oh well. Like I said, my perspective is that of a non-Asian, so I'd love to hear what anyone else thinks.
And most sad part is, As a Chinese, I didn't enjoy or see any thing "More like a Chinese movie" in Shang Chi, it just the same old "Chinese people lived in village far from the outside and every one of them is Master of Kungfu" crap, I rather see it discuss the struggle that Asian American face like Black Pather did for African American, and you are right, I did fell very splict from 1st scene to the rest of the movie.
Because of how much the Americans actually hate anything in the East, the stereotype of Asians being straight A students must be kept. Obviously this is meant in sarcasm, but seriously the mystical village thing is a trope in Western stories in general because cities have only been growing in the last couple hundred years. If they make a sequel I wouldn't surprised if the city look like Bladerunner, though, because Hollywood doesn't live in reality.
@@KRYMauL exactly
I appreciate this dialog. Love the essay and I also love this comments section! I'm learning more from this collection of accounts than I ever would have in school, in public discourse, etcetera. I think this sums up "the danger of a single narrative." I'm an African American cartoonist and capoeirista, so when Black Panther came out it was the topic of conversation in every facet of my life. We even held a public screening followed by hours of discussion about the rift between African Americans and continental Africans in my city (I live in Chicago, IL).
For the rest of the world, BP wasn't that deep. For me, Shang Chi was just a fun Disney+ selection on a night in with my partner. I actually selected it in part because I wasn't in the mood for something challenging or heavy. Grateful for the added context and consideration! My biggest take-away is that there are infinite modalities and classifications that lead to people feeling ostracized and only one that leads to people feeling accepted. I'ma affirm everybody's lived experience without judgment. Also, I'm gonna sub to the channel. :D
Take care y'all.
I was very happy with Shang Chi's blend of Marvel style and hong kong fight scenes.
(I hate shaky cam so much)
They were never in Hong Kong in this movie, I think you're referring to Macau.
@@baytone8951 Hi, I meant stylistically it reminded me of Hong Kong blockbusters. Not the location of the scene
Big Trouble in Little China has one of my favorite Patriotic scenes in all of movies. When white guy Kurt Russel as "Jack" is with Chinese-American's "Egg Shen" and "Wang" and they need to take the magic potion to defeat David Lo-Pan's evil forces in China town. Wang, proposes a toast, "Here's to the army and navy, and the battles they have won, here's to America's colors, the colors that never run!" with Jack responding, "May the wings of liberty never lose a feather."
It's a reflection of how everyone in the scene, the Chinese and the European guy are "Americans". They're citizens of a nation of immigrants... and despite the fact they're fighting Chinese monsters, they still are part of the American experience together (Even the Villain! David Lo-pan despite being an immortal evil ghost is also an American Capitalist!)
I think this movie gave me an idea - You can always think of your root. Is ok to be who you are wherever you are.
As a black man I was so disappointed with The falcon. Falcon willingly chooses to continue to be a part of American imperialist machine with the promise that "Politicians should do better, Its criticism of Racism and American Imperialism is frustratingly shallow. I wish Marvel would not tackle these issues if they arent willing to fully dive into it.
Worst part to me is how he and Bucky are basically complicit in the death of the new Cpt. America's friend but doesn't have the balls to even remotely hurt the actual terrorist.
That show starts off really strong and then gets worse as it goes on. It ends really... strangely.