Thanks for that. Really useful. There seem to be two approaches to cooling, first is: I need to be able to cool the building to 21C in worst case circumstances and therefore need huge unit, the other is: I have a heat pump and would like a bit of cooling occasionally as a bonus at low additional cost. I’m much more interested in the second of these. Key messages for this seem to be: need some fan units and best to stay above dew point.
Thanks for the video. Does/Could your list of installers offer filters to find those that are experienced at installing heat pumps that support cooling?
Could you not plumb all four corners of the radiator and then use two manual valves to switch from both bottom fed to both top fed in summer? Might look a little odd I suppose but I imagine could be neat enough
I think this may have been the video I'm looking for.... just about to do an extension and renovation (complete back to brick job) on a 115yr old house and planning to put UFH on all 3 floors. If I can use an ASHP for cooling that would be perfect for those hotter days. The dew point aspect is very interesting. With regards to having extra emitters in the rooms that require cooling is it possible to hide these in the ceiling? Im thinking what if I was to hide the units between the joists or in those rooms I had the ceiling dropped around the edges by 6 inches would that allow space for a small emitter to assist the UF? The air could be fed through a small discreet vent?
Great vid thanks, really useful! Here's the video suggestions I'd like to see: * R290 ASHP you mentioned that were new to the market with SCOPs comparable to GSHPs * Heat batteries such as SunAmp etc.
I've been cooling my home room heat problem via CH using a separate Expansion tank incorporated with a old Pub under bar beer chiller... Top & Bottom entry valves... For over six years...
@@tomkacandes8286 Yep: a fan coil piped to a beer python and use the flow and return that would usually cool the 'python' of pipes. It works... may not be the most efficient, but on those few really stiflingly hot nights when you can't sleep: who cares?
Remember Part O of the Building Regulations on Over heating needs to be complied with to limit Over heating risk. With complex new build this will be via dynamic models which can do your cooling calculations. Your fan coil units recommend Jaga - Strada light cool (16/18 flow temp) no condense and you can run without fan in heating or Briza for more cooling needing condense.
In the US we do hydronic fan coils that run at 8 watts on low, very quiet, insulate the piping and have heating and cooling where we need it, sometimes in combination with UFH and panel rads all on the same system.
I'd think that if you created a 'zone' that included the rooms that you want to potentially cool and used fan coils in those rooms , then when you only want to cool, the fan coils are used (perfectly OK to heat with fan coils). Fan coils are far more effective than trying to use a 'radiator' with cold water running through. They also have provision to collect the condensate if they've been designed to cool...
Thank you for all your video it's so interesting stuff .. years ago. I done underfloor heating with the heating pump for cooling . But in that case you need ventilation if you have a good ventilation and you don't have a lot of condensation between the pipe on the floor. Like ducting system...
How does underfloor cooling on the bottom of the build work? Surely the exchange rate isn't too great as the cool air will pool on the floor without some active mixing? Cool feet but still a hot room? Same with rads without fan assist too?
Yeah the air at the top of the room will still be warm, but the floor will collect some of the infrared energy bouncing around and being radiated from warm surfaces like ceilings and walls. So you will probably need to stir the air with a fan to get the best feeling, but the cooling floor will extract heat over time. Especially useful to knock a few degrees of the worst of things in the afternoon, plus at night to help cool the thermal mass of the building (as they say in the video).
Really curious about air to air pumps. Living in portugal the cooling is very important. Our house is 100% off grid (except for internet…) so I’m hoping to cool during the day with solar power and then hope the nights aren’t too hot! (Out of interest, The recent 45+ heat wave was allied to cloudy conditions so there wouldn’t be much I could have done anyway…).
air to air are much more applicable to your country - its a no brainer. Unless you've got a particularly difficult house to run refridgerant lines in and you already have water piping in, go air to air.
Great video. "Hot" topic again this year :D So if i sum it up; - If we have heat-pump capable of cooling and underfloor piping. We already have infrastructure to lower the house temp to some extent (by 2-3deg). - We want delta-t (between air and floor) not bigger than 5-6deg. This means if room temp is 26deg, target 20deg . But leaving water temp (from heat pump), can be lower (delta-t between floor surface and water in pipes) around absolute 15deg? - Question about delta-t between leaving & returning water....what is a good setting? 3deg? - If we wish more cooling power, we need to connect fan-foils/convectors, that are able to collect more energy.
@Heat Geek can you share any brands of Fan Assisted rads to look at? I found the Stelrad Vento series, but they’re an EU only product, Stelrad UK won’t stock them :-(
For those of us on the other side of the pond, what are you looking at as far as RH in the summer? Here in the US South, we're more concerned about humidity first, and temp second. For those of us who work on residential hydronics, we're just starting to see low-temp boilers and A2WHPs in our future, but it's years away. Trying to stay ahead of the curve, I'm trying to figure out how to compare apples to apples.
Typically about 9c.. our testing here was at 7c flow when dew was at 9 and not much risk at all! We're only cooling a couple of weeks a year though typically.. 40c today!
@@tomkacandes8286 we're in the DC/Metro area. All my vendors are looking at me the same way a cow looks at an oncoming train. What vendor are you using, if you don't mind me asking.
Presumably if you’re heading oassivhaus you’ll already have mvhr and could put a fan coil for both warming and cooling on the replacement air feed post hx
I was recently told that for a heating only pump as a boiler replacement the exterior unit could be could be installed as a permitted development but that a reverse cycle heat pump, capable of both heating and cooling, was excluded form PD terms and would require planning permission. Is this the case?
Really interesting…. I have a south facing lounge with Big windows and Heat Recovery Ventilation… could you not use a cool from the ashp to cool the Air coming in via the HRV?
I was planning on adding an awning and Velux to improve light in my extension, similar in size to Adam's. How noising are the Velux windows during a rain storm?
Guys, I have a question for you both, if you were taking one room and fitting an air to air heat pump ie air conditioning how would that be compared to air to water for heating ? In the winter would air to air heat the room as well as air to water.
I was watching your videos on how you trial the cooling mode with your ASHP and your radiators. Then you had this, where you went a step ahead and used underfloor pipes. I was hoping that you reach the final solution and have a ceiling circuit for cooling. So why don’t we have a heating and a separate cooling circuit?
Just install an ‘air to air’ heat pump AC system for cooling and heating. You can install a Daikin VRV with one condenser and multi heads throughout the property. Forget radiators etc it won’t work.
It does seem that cooling through rads etc unlikely to provide much cooling? Is there a reason the mvhr system cannot have a heat exchanger in the system to provide cooling?
I’m not seeing any mention of MVHR here, surely this would be of great help in mixing the cold from the underfloor slab throughout the house. Like the UFH it would need to operate in a sort of reverse mode as by default it will try and retain as much heat as possible when mixing fresh air. Maybe a fan coil rad could be plumbed to the intake to cool down the incoming air that is then sent to the whole house , even 3 or 4 rads ? I feel a mix of these two technologies could be the answer.
MVHR can have duct coils fitted. It’s not advertised or often done though. Then you can heat or cool the duct coil by use of refrigerant system (ac) or a chiller / heat pump which circulates water through the coil. Can change incoming air 25/30’c down to 10’c coming into your house. System is set on bypass mode so essential straight through rather than recovering. Also make sure ducts round the house are well insulated to prevent condensation. It’s a whole house solution.
@@darrenr1995 I have a new build with MVHR, I've added a duct heating coil to pre heat the air coming into the house, the ASHP provides the warm water for it. I did consider using it for cooling but a) the ASHP I have doesn't support cooling b) the ducts aren't insulated, other than that it would be been a good way to cool and dehumidify the house.
@@blahblah1234392 don’t worry about the ducts not insulated. Better if they are to hold the temp in the duct but you won’t get near the dew point on a house with MVHR as humidity is low. We have MVHR with a duct coil. A small chiller / ASHP (4kw) cools the coil to a constant supply air into the MHVR of 11’c. Then by the time it comes out the plenums in the rooms it’s around 15/18’c. Way above dew point. It creates a lovely fresh cool whole house. Even when it’s 30/35’c outside. Main priority is the duct coil has to have a condensate drain. Lots of condensate is formed naturally in this coil. Also condensate is produced within the MVHR but that has a drain anyway. We opted for a chiller which is a ASHP but only does cooling not heating. Being a new build also, we don’t need anymore heat!
I have an old air con system and am looking to change it. I am also looking to change my boiler to a heat pump. What are my options Uk? Do your Heat Geek installers do both air con and heat pumps?
@@patrickwheeler2646 Good to know. Can you tell me, is there an option to have a combined Air con/Heat pump heating solution? If so, are you an option for me? Obviously your name/company would have to be listed on the Heat Geek site of installers.
I'm Adam's partner in Heat Geek, our office is in Surrey so although I'm not sure we can help directly, we can give you a decent head start. Contact the office and mention my name to get a call booked in.
The downside of radiant cooling is the fact that you have to stay above the dew point, when in reality we want to be able to lower the dew point of the air (a good target is typically 50-55°F, sorry don't know the °C dew point target). We as humans are more susceptible to the humidity in the air vs. the sensible temperature, therefore supplemental dehumidification is often required when doing radiant cooling. That's the other reason for utilizing fan coils with ASHP's as they are able to get the coil below dew point and remove humidity.
What would be a suitable level of insulation for existing underfloor copper pipes if you were to retrofit Heatpump cooling? Taking your point about condensation, what products would you use to "wrap up" these existing pipes?
@@HeatGeek thanks - imagine this only goes for pipes that are between floors? Any pipes for ground floors (under screed) wouldn't be an issue? Except where they pop out through screed, there may be condensation on those exposed sections?
I am moving soon to a new house designed with undefloor heating downstairs and radiators upstairs and a natural gas burning source. I'm thinking that in the future when heat pumps get cheaper (or gas gets more expensive) I would like to retrofit one and replace the gas boiler, for both heating and cooling. Do you think that would be a hassle and it's better to do it now when the house is still semi-finished?
I think it's better to do now. Otherwise you'll have to disrupt a finished house. Also with ufh your goingnto already be somewhere around 20% cheaper than gas anyway...
@@HeatGeek I was thinking if all I'll have to do is replace my radiators with fan assisted ones, and the boiler with the pump, it shouldn't be such a mess. Also, I wouldn't spend an extra 5+ thousand on a pump right now. The house already comes equipped with the gas boiler as standard.
@@zlmdragon. Yes, I've already made up my mind to keep it as it is for now and see how things evolve in the future. Right now heat pumps are very expensive and also hard to find, because everybody wants one and they can't make enough of them. Also, for cooling I have decided it's better to install smaller regular AC units in every room, it should be more efficient.
@@zlmdragon. I know, but I would rather have many single splits than a lot of duct for ventilation on the inside. Also the rooms aren't very large so I figure 9000BTU units are cheaper, even if I need several of them.
Super interesting guys. I’m in exactly the situation your talking about with an extensive renovation (where it’s effectively a blank canvas/fresh install with new pipe work), and there’s glazing designed for solar gain in winter. However, aside from masses of insulation, air source with UFH and solar PV/battery, we’re looking at MVHR too. My question is can and how would MVHR (Zehnder Q350) with summer mode assist with UFH for cooling? Is it just by increasing the effective convection/air circulation? Really keen to hear your thoughts 🤞
I'm also looking at Zenhder units, there is an add on unit that goes on top for cooling, it is a module. I'm researching if it can work well for cooling. Happy to bounce ideas about it as I have similar project in place.
When a heatpump is heating your hot water cylinder the evaporator outside gets cold. Could this 'free' cold air be directed/ducted into the house on these rare heat wave days?
You would have to uninstall and reinstall ducting.. also this adds resistance to the main fan.. lastly.. it will only give 20 mins of air which won't do much
When I have specified air-to-water heat pumps in the US, we connect to “fan coil units” or water-appropriate cooling coils in air handling units connected to duct work. The latter is done to reduce valves and pipe work complexity while customers here are very accustomed to cool air from centralized ductwork. People here think one MUST have ductwork to even consider GSHP. Only a few times do we get to connect to radiant floor and in those cases, we use some fan coils sized only for cooling that are able to run separately in summer. In winter, they help with rapid warm up if the owner has forgotten how radiant floor actually works (it is hard to beat the “set back” thinking out of people, but a large stick helps…). Hot tank + cold tank for buffer and allowing “simultaneous” (really switched) heating vs. cooling. Yes, we are “hardly a beacon of efficiency”.
I run four fanned radiators on my weather compensated systems (down stairs UFH) all have three speed fans manually selectable to achieve the correct heat input per room, each unit has a 8 watts fan draw maximium and wired into fused spurs from the upstairs ring via the sockets in each room, this in practice is straghtforward as long as no other supply has been taken from that socket on a ring mains. They need a service every year as they collect dust due to large air movement through a mass of alloy plates fitted to 8mm or 10mm copper pipe, they are fed with 15mm copper and each set of pipes is connected to a common 22mm copper carcass branched off of 28 mm copper Nr the boiler, the 28mm feeds the UFH with 12 feeds and returns, no blending, no pump and no thermastatic control as the weather comp directly controls heating water temp. They are noisey and if not cleaned thoughley make even more noise, having said that you soon get used to the noise and its not that bad, I run the fans on there mid speed as thats the heat output required, they also only come on at around 30 degs flow as they have built in pipe stats and a built in thermostat so once the room is up to temp they turn off, this give a deg of control as everyone's heat requirment is different in each room. As for runing them for air cooling this would be a problem as the frame is open underneath for air to be drawn in and condensation cannot be collected. They would need servicing again before being used for air cooling as dust collects easy due to close spacing of the alloy fins on the heat exchange. Hope that gives you some more insight into cylindrical fanned radiators designed for low water temp systems.
You HeatGeek guys should talk to John Williams at Chiltrix/ Hotspot Energy in Virginia US about his psychometric controller that does the dew point control of LWT for AWHP to avoid condensation.
Have you looked into the option of intigrating cooling with a MVHR system for new / whole renovation projects? or would the volumes involved be nowhere near the required capacity needed for useful cooling?
I had the same thought, I have installed a heating batt into my MHRV system but you can also use it for cooling the air coming into the house. You do have to make sure that all the air ducts are insulated though to prevent condensation forming on them.
I'm curious why everything I hear about UK heat pumps is all air-water and distribution using water radiators? All modern buildings here use forced-air, either air-air heat pumps or forced-air natural gas furnaces. With heat pumps, the indoor air handler deals with the condensation in cooling mode. I get that your existing buildings don't have ducting (we have plenty of existing buildings with baseboard resistance heat for that matter), but what about new build? And for retrofits or small condos, people here are just putting in ductless mini-splits. Radiant heat is nice and all but it seems cooling is a big challenge.
I've been looking at retrofitting A2A upstairs for potentially heating and cooling, is there a reason you need fan coils in each room as I've seen rooms ducted from a single large unit in the loft space. This takes up less room but is it less effective?
Ducted systems loose lots of efficiencies. Thermal Loses in the duct work, hard to keep clean etc. Best to have the units directly in the room. They are the quickest in getting a room to the set point, nothing else comes close
@@darrenr1995 I guess even though they are a bit more work to fit the fan coils, it's still fairly straightforwards upstairs if you can run wiring/condensate/coolant through loft space still
@@HeatGeek Ah great. Yeah I’m with you on this as we only need cooling at most a few weeks a year. It’d be great if you could show us a working example of what was discussed.
Air-source heat pump with ductless mini-splits are the way to go not trying retrofit to radiators. Ductless mini-splits are available in single or multi-head units. It's so frustrating listening to Europeans talk about heat pumps that seem limited in the thinking.
Is this highlighting a fundamental limitation of hydronic systems? Should we be considering air heating / cooling units and circulate refrigerant directly instead of water?
When the HeatGeeks started this I assumed they were installing some clever valves and putting the ASHP in reverse to provide a Compressed R290 cooling loop to inside AC "Fan Coil Units" I'd like to see them add this to their system and see what the performance difference. Not sure if there are any ASHPs that allow this reversal out the box though.
I think it is highlighting that one size does not fit all. There is no perfect system for our varied housing stock and each case needs to be addressed on an individual basis. Air to air works better in small areas. For example when we went on holiday the villa we stayed at had 5 split air con units. Not cheap to install, maintain or run!
Circulating refrigerant directly into the indoor unit(s) for both heating and cooling is far more efficient and effective than transferring the energy to water. All AC systems are heat pump based too
Circulating refrigerant directly into the indoor unit(s) for both heating and cooling is far more efficient and effective than transferring the energy to water. All AC systems are heat pump based too
I don't think we did say it was better? The reason a2w is installed is becaise most houses already have rads.. comfort wise a 2 w is much better though yes
@@Boodieman72 Yeah, I'm wondering if they've ever put any in... The fact that hes having to ask if fancoils modulate their fans says enough about it...!
The most annoying part of enabling 'cooling' on ASHPs (and paying a ridiculous amount for a chip) is the fact that most of them have all the control logic / valves on board to do it anyway - the defrost cycle works by extracting heat from the system/house and pushing it into the heat exchanger to melt the ice off (and so pushes heat outside). This is the exact same process as cooling mode.
I'm doing some research into this at the moment and found a product from a company called variotherm. It's modular ceiling heating and promotes cooling as one of its features. I was wondering if anyone has heard about it and/or has some experience with this? I would be to hear your opinions :)
This is simply therotical clap trap that is defective and bad ideas. You will nearly always get condensation that will lead to rusting and staining. Just like most accedemic approaches you are missing the most obvious and easiest solution for cooling from a normal and standard installed heat pump. You simply divert the chilled air extract from the outdoor unit back into the house whilst heating the hot water taps. Easy peasy and achievable with limited DIY skills. A temporary sumer lash up like this provides great home cooling that can then be removed for the colder seasons. This is what I do and it works great.
Surely that requires the heat pump to be heating something - presumably the hot water? So in order to get cooling you either need a hot water tank to heat or to run the hot water tap on order to cool the house. If your hot water tank reaches temperature I guess you're back to running the hot water tap to continue cooling your house? If what I've described is accurate I'm not convinced by this solution.
If it's a bit chilly we can wear more clothes, but us humans are not designed to deal so well with heat. Thinking about the future... what if systems were configured/designed with cooling as the priority..?
Ground source heat pumps are expensive and alot of us were conned. Yep throw out your existing systems throw money on the fire Air Conditioners will cost less and you don't need to dig up the Garden.
I don't get this sort of heat pump system. Why do you need radiators at all. A standard air-conditioning unit is basically a heat pump. Hot in Winter. Cold in Summer. No radiators. Blows air hot or cold so disperses the temperature. A 12 KW unit is huge. Would do most English houses easily surely. My hot water heat pump was just a small air compressor heating the water with pressure. It is all made to sound very complicated but isn't the whole concept just regulating the pressure of a given fluid to create hot or cold. Increase get hot. Decrease get cold. Change the property of the fluid change the effect of the pressure. A car radiator on steroids. Pressure cap and various additives. You look at a lot of American systems or Aussie systems with ducted air seems way better. The Yanks run heat exchangers to cool or heat incoming air for better efficiency. We haven't got to that stage yet in Oz but then our houses have terrible R value or U value to you. Still single glazed. On a new build my air-conditioning guys 2 of them. Can fully carcase out the whole house in a day. Fit off only a few hours. Wifi connected. Fully app controlled from anywhere. Each outlet zoned for individual comfort. Fraction of the price of your type of installs. Your gas/hydrogen system intrigued me combined with the power generation. But these heat pumps simply operating over sized radiators through over sized pipes. Still don't get it.
It’s hard to change the traditions of heating a house for that country. We have always had radiators in the UK, so everyone loves them here. We are based in UK and install gas and AC. Air to air was mainly in offices but it’s rapidly being taken up in homes now. You are correct in what you describe though, all these new air source heat pumps have a refrigeration side, which is exactly the same as the system in a air conditioning condenser. Transferring it over to water through a plate heat ex just makes it fit into our systems.
@@darrenr1995 Very true. I am English and lived there 36 years. Traditional to the point of stupidity some times. There was a trend a few decades ago for ducted air in the UK in houses. I worked on the install of a few with the register plates in the floors and skirts we had to cut in. Two of my friends had it in their houses. Radiators are a pain. If people want an up to date system why bother merging old with new. Look at the wall space you free up with no rads. You need more convincing salesmen. On a new build even worse. Who would want to install rads. More space. Easier maintenance. Easier to operate. No risk of leaks and damage by water. Lot cheaper to install. The last one will clinch the deal. You wouldn't fit many more Radiators. It is supposed to be the 21st Century not the 19th.
I have often thought this 12 kW sounds large but could you get away with one. Would the heat disperse to the other side of the house rather than rising up though the floor of the room its in and out the house ? Obviously the hotwater issue exists as well.
You're solutions are far too complex, difficult to install and far too expensive. The answer is to install air-to-air minisplits and to target the heating/cooling where it is needed. Forget central heating. Minisplits are so cheap and easy to install and run (assuming you have space for a heat pump) that more than one could be installed, removing the need for any internal ducting. An immersion heater/heat pump can be used for hot water using solar/off-peak electricity.
It’s very true, we install AC in the uk. Only a 4/5kw condenser needed to heat or cool a house, with multiple indoor units. They can change a rooms temp up or down within minutes, removing humidity on cooling mode too. Creates a very pleasant environment.
the problem is the mini-splits are ugly and I wouldn't have them in my house. This could be a solution for the generally moderate UK climate if the UFH works as a heat sink.
To American ears, this entire series is a bit comical: “UK people suddenly discover a need for cooling”. In the US, “ASHP” = “air con” in UK we do cooling with them and are just now figuring out heating with them. There is almost no knowledge of air-to-water HP’s connecting to hydronic distribution (equally baffling, but none of the big makers sell air-to-water in the US!). I have NEVER met anyone with GSHP in the US doing what you all call “passive” GS cooling - using GSHP with air ductwork for cooling is a huge piece of why Americans install GSHP in the first place. You all are like an alternative universe of ASHP vs. our air-to-air focused market. I am a fan of your approach and would love to see more air-to-water HP’s especially with low GWP units like Vaillant or R-32. Our installers are releasing R-410a all over and running refrigerant linesets 2,3,4 and 5 per house like varicose veins all over the outside of the house. Keep up the good work, lads. Tom from NY
Heat pumps have to run and run and run and run and run to do their job of conditioning a space. The noise pollution of the fans running 24/7 is a problem. It’s like driving out to the sea to enjoy the view of the ocean and BAM, huge ugly windmills everywhere. Heat pump fans make neighbourhoods noisy and ugly.
@@HeatGeek I have, and they run and run and run, adding noise pollution outside. Plus, who is going to pay for everyone to throw out the old noisy ones for a new one? Heat pumps are great in some cases, but there is a good reason they have a slow adoption rate. There is a trade off for the implementation of any device. Heat pumps are noisy, expensive, complex, clunky, and ugly. It’s not just about the decibal levels, but the low drone noise and vibration they put off. The old fart is right, any time you have to subsidize something so much, one is saying “ I know you don’t want to do this, but here, I’ll pay you off to do it”. We don’t have to get off fossil fuels, we just need to use fossil fuels way more efficiently. Just think of the power used to run all these TH-cam videos people are making to chase a profit. Heat geek videos are worth the power, but I reckon 10% of the videos on TH-cam are productive.
@@HeatGeek At -25 Celsius outdoor air temp, 60,000 BTU required heating load, what is the quietest unit you can recommend? What are the decibals of the outdoor fan ,and what is the price?
![30 ชั่วโมงคนเดียว บนรถไฟชั้น 3 โซเวียต [Around The World Ep. 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MlE9boAVqDA/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for that. Really useful. There seem to be two approaches to cooling, first is: I need to be able to cool the building to 21C in worst case circumstances and therefore need huge unit, the other is: I have a heat pump and would like a bit of cooling occasionally as a bonus at low additional cost. I’m much more interested in the second of these. Key messages for this seem to be: need some fan units and best to stay above dew point.
Thanks for the video. Does/Could your list of installers offer filters to find those that are experienced at installing heat pumps that support cooling?
Our last project was GSHP cascade and we had a buffer off the brine for using with a cold store
Same here Graeme, we've got a NIBE doing that very close to our office which will probably feature in a video next month 👍🏽
Could you not plumb all four corners of the radiator and then use two manual valves to switch from both bottom fed to both top fed in summer? Might look a little odd I suppose but I imagine could be neat enough
I think this may have been the video I'm looking for.... just about to do an extension and renovation (complete back to brick job) on a 115yr old house and planning to put UFH on all 3 floors. If I can use an ASHP for cooling that would be perfect for those hotter days. The dew point aspect is very interesting. With regards to having extra emitters in the rooms that require cooling is it possible to hide these in the ceiling? Im thinking what if I was to hide the units between the joists or in those rooms I had the ceiling dropped around the edges by 6 inches would that allow space for a small emitter to assist the UF? The air could be fed through a small discreet vent?
Planning on a nice geothermal with passive cooling via borehole & UFH when I redo my house
Great vid thanks, really useful!
Here's the video suggestions I'd like to see:
* R290 ASHP you mentioned that were new to the market with SCOPs comparable to GSHPs
* Heat batteries such as SunAmp etc.
No probs 👌
Already in the bank
I've been cooling my home room heat problem via CH using a separate Expansion tank incorporated with a old Pub under bar beer chiller...
Top & Bottom entry valves...
For over six years...
Ide like to see photos of that!
Me, too! Sounds like a “home brew” version of the SAHP BTMB - nicely done.
@@tomkacandes8286 Yep: a fan coil piped to a beer python and use the flow and return that would usually cool the 'python' of pipes. It works... may not be the most efficient, but on those few really stiflingly hot nights when you can't sleep: who cares?
How big an ASHP do I need to turn my kitchen floor into an ice rink?
Great vid, thanks!
It would be cheaper to turn an ice rink into a kitchen
Remember Part O of the Building Regulations on Over heating needs to be complied with to limit Over heating risk. With complex new build this will be via dynamic models which can do your cooling calculations. Your fan coil units recommend Jaga - Strada light cool (16/18 flow temp) no condense and you can run without fan in heating or Briza for more cooling needing condense.
Jaga - didn't know about them, thanks for that!
In the US we do hydronic fan coils that run at 8 watts on low, very quiet, insulate the piping and have heating and cooling where we need it, sometimes in combination with UFH and panel rads all on the same system.
I'd think that if you created a 'zone' that included the rooms that you want to potentially cool and used fan coils in those rooms , then when you only want to cool, the fan coils are used (perfectly OK to heat with fan coils). Fan coils are far more effective than trying to use a 'radiator' with cold water running through. They also have provision to collect the condensate if they've been designed to cool...
Thank you for all your video it's so interesting stuff ..
years ago. I done underfloor heating with the heating pump for cooling . But in that case you need ventilation if you have a good ventilation and you don't have a lot of condensation between the pipe on the floor. Like ducting system...
How does underfloor cooling on the bottom of the build work? Surely the exchange rate isn't too great as the cool air will pool on the floor without some active mixing? Cool feet but still a hot room? Same with rads without fan assist too?
Yeah the air at the top of the room will still be warm, but the floor will collect some of the infrared energy bouncing around and being radiated from warm surfaces like ceilings and walls.
So you will probably need to stir the air with a fan to get the best feeling, but the cooling floor will extract heat over time. Especially useful to knock a few degrees of the worst of things in the afternoon, plus at night to help cool the thermal mass of the building (as they say in the video).
It works as an Infra red sync.. same way ceiling heating works... its great tbh
Really curious about air to air pumps. Living in portugal the cooling is very important. Our house is 100% off grid (except for internet…) so I’m hoping to cool during the day with solar power and then hope the nights aren’t too hot! (Out of interest, The recent 45+ heat wave was allied to cloudy conditions so there wouldn’t be much I could have done anyway…).
air to air are much more applicable to your country - its a no brainer. Unless you've got a particularly difficult house to run refridgerant lines in and you already have water piping in, go air to air.
Great video. "Hot" topic again this year :D So if i sum it up;
- If we have heat-pump capable of cooling and underfloor piping. We already have infrastructure to lower the house temp to some extent (by 2-3deg).
- We want delta-t (between air and floor) not bigger than 5-6deg. This means if room temp is 26deg, target 20deg . But leaving water temp (from heat pump), can be lower (delta-t between floor surface and water in pipes) around absolute 15deg?
- Question about delta-t between leaving & returning water....what is a good setting? 3deg?
- If we wish more cooling power, we need to connect fan-foils/convectors, that are able to collect more energy.
@Heat Geek can you share any brands of Fan Assisted rads to look at? I found the Stelrad Vento series, but they’re an EU only product, Stelrad UK won’t stock them :-(
For those of us on the other side of the pond, what are you looking at as far as RH in the summer? Here in the US South, we're more concerned about humidity first, and temp second. For those of us who work on residential hydronics, we're just starting to see low-temp boilers and A2WHPs in our future, but it's years away. Trying to stay ahead of the curve, I'm trying to figure out how to compare apples to apples.
Typically about 9c.. our testing here was at 7c flow when dew was at 9 and not much risk at all! We're only cooling a couple of weeks a year though typically.. 40c today!
@Corey Rodgerson Enertech, SpacePak Solstice are two units you can buy here and look at - we install them in the NE US and they work great.
@@tomkacandes8286 we're in the DC/Metro area. All my vendors are looking at me the same way a cow looks at an oncoming train. What vendor are you using, if you don't mind me asking.
Presumably if you’re heading oassivhaus you’ll already have mvhr and could put a fan coil for both warming and cooling on the replacement air feed post hx
Seems to me ones better of installing, as I’ve done a couple of air to air heatpump, ie air conditioner
I was recently told that for a heating only pump as a boiler replacement the exterior unit could be could be installed as a permitted development but that a reverse cycle heat pump, capable of both heating and cooling, was excluded form PD terms and would require planning permission.
Is this the case?
That was part of thi which has ended. That can be ignored now
Really interesting…. I have a south facing lounge with Big windows and Heat Recovery Ventilation… could you not use a cool from the ashp to cool the Air coming in via the HRV?
Nice. Thanks for that. I had an idea fan coils were the answer and you've confirmed that for me. Much appreciated.
I was planning on adding an awning and Velux to improve light in my extension, similar in size to Adam's. How noising are the Velux windows during a rain storm?
Guys, I have a question for you both, if you were taking one room and fitting an air to air heat pump ie air conditioning how would that be compared to air to water for heating ? In the winter would air to air heat the room as well as air to water.
Air to air slightly more efficient and slightly less comfort.. can be cheaper to install too especially for 1 room
@@HeatGeek wow ok, I knew air to air was a more instant heat/cooling, I wonder why more homes don’t use air to air as a complete home heating system
@@11x11z11x11 they already have hydronic systems and you meed hot water
I was watching your videos on how you trial the cooling mode with your ASHP and your radiators. Then you had this, where you went a step ahead and used underfloor pipes. I was hoping that you reach the final solution and have a ceiling circuit for cooling. So why don’t we have a heating and a separate cooling circuit?
Also East and West glazing causes more issues in over heating south is easier to shade. Roof lights (large ones can cause a lot of solar gain issues)
Just install an ‘air to air’ heat pump AC system for cooling and heating. You can install a Daikin VRV with one condenser and multi heads throughout the property. Forget radiators etc it won’t work.
Will it provide hot water too
@@edc1569 No, but there are many cheap ways that can be achieved
It does seem that cooling through rads etc unlikely to provide much cooling? Is there a reason the mvhr system cannot have a heat exchanger in the system to provide cooling?
I’m not seeing any mention of MVHR here, surely this would be of great help in mixing the cold from the underfloor slab throughout the house. Like the UFH it would need to operate in a sort of reverse mode as by default it will try and retain as much heat as possible when mixing fresh air. Maybe a fan coil rad could be plumbed to the intake to cool down the incoming air that is then sent to the whole house , even 3 or 4 rads ? I feel a mix of these two technologies could be the answer.
+1 Interested in MVHR with underfloor heating plus ground or air source.
MVHR can have duct coils fitted. It’s not advertised or often done though. Then you can heat or cool the duct coil by use of refrigerant system (ac) or a chiller / heat pump which circulates water through the coil. Can change incoming air 25/30’c down to 10’c coming into your house. System is set on bypass mode so essential straight through rather than recovering. Also make sure ducts round the house are well insulated to prevent condensation. It’s a whole house solution.
@@darrenr1995 I have a new build with MVHR, I've added a duct heating coil to pre heat the air coming into the house, the ASHP provides the warm water for it. I did consider using it for cooling but a) the ASHP I have doesn't support cooling b) the ducts aren't insulated, other than that it would be been a good way to cool and dehumidify the house.
@@blahblah1234392 don’t worry about the ducts not insulated. Better if they are to hold the temp in the duct but you won’t get near the dew point on a house with MVHR as humidity is low. We have MVHR with a duct coil. A small chiller / ASHP (4kw) cools the coil to a constant supply air into the MHVR of 11’c. Then by the time it comes out the plenums in the rooms it’s around 15/18’c. Way above dew point. It creates a lovely fresh cool whole house. Even when it’s 30/35’c outside.
Main priority is the duct coil has to have a condensate drain. Lots of condensate is formed naturally in this coil. Also condensate is produced within the MVHR but that has a drain anyway. We opted for a chiller which is a ASHP but only does cooling not heating. Being a new build also, we don’t need anymore heat!
@@zlmdragon. Hi, these systems are installed in the UK.
I have an old air con system and am looking to change it. I am also looking to change my boiler to a heat pump. What are my options Uk? Do your Heat Geek installers do both air con and heat pumps?
Some yes, not all of course. If you put a request in to the office through the contact form we can check your area and help with specification
@@paddingtonbear4104 ah not too far from our office in Surrey 👍🏽
@@patrickwheeler2646 Good to know. Can you tell me, is there an option to have a combined Air con/Heat pump heating solution? If so, are you an option for me? Obviously your name/company would have to be listed on the Heat Geek site of installers.
I'm Adam's partner in Heat Geek, our office is in Surrey so although I'm not sure we can help directly, we can give you a decent head start. Contact the office and mention my name to get a call booked in.
@@patrickwheeler2646 Thankyou Patrick. Will be in contact when ready. 👍
Great video! Thanks. Does the Ecodan have a cooling function? I’ve gone through the manual and can’t seem to find anything on it
The downside of radiant cooling is the fact that you have to stay above the dew point, when in reality we want to be able to lower the dew point of the air (a good target is typically 50-55°F, sorry don't know the °C dew point target). We as humans are more susceptible to the humidity in the air vs. the sensible temperature, therefore supplemental dehumidification is often required when doing radiant cooling. That's the other reason for utilizing fan coils with ASHP's as they are able to get the coil below dew point and remove humidity.
Also you could use a mechanical ventilation to remove to moist air in this case
What would be a suitable level of insulation for existing underfloor copper pipes if you were to retrofit Heatpump cooling? Taking your point about condensation, what products would you use to "wrap up" these existing pipes?
Class 0 and vapour sealed. It's a specific job
@@HeatGeek thanks - imagine this only goes for pipes that are between floors?
Any pipes for ground floors (under screed) wouldn't be an issue? Except where they pop out through screed, there may be condensation on those exposed sections?
I am moving soon to a new house designed with undefloor heating downstairs and radiators upstairs and a natural gas burning source. I'm thinking that in the future when heat pumps get cheaper (or gas gets more expensive) I would like to retrofit one and replace the gas boiler, for both heating and cooling. Do you think that would be a hassle and it's better to do it now when the house is still semi-finished?
I think it's better to do now. Otherwise you'll have to disrupt a finished house. Also with ufh your goingnto already be somewhere around 20% cheaper than gas anyway...
@@HeatGeek I was thinking if all I'll have to do is replace my radiators with fan assisted ones, and the boiler with the pump, it shouldn't be such a mess. Also, I wouldn't spend an extra 5+ thousand on a pump right now. The house already comes equipped with the gas boiler as standard.
@@zlmdragon. Yes, I've already made up my mind to keep it as it is for now and see how things evolve in the future. Right now heat pumps are very expensive and also hard to find, because everybody wants one and they can't make enough of them.
Also, for cooling I have decided it's better to install smaller regular AC units in every room, it should be more efficient.
@@zlmdragon. I know, but I would rather have many single splits than a lot of duct for ventilation on the inside. Also the rooms aren't very large so I figure 9000BTU units are cheaper, even if I need several of them.
@@zlmdragon. Yeah, for some reason these multi splits are at least twice as expensive as the same number of single splits (Daikin included)
Super interesting guys. I’m in exactly the situation your talking about with an extensive renovation (where it’s effectively a blank canvas/fresh install with new pipe work), and there’s glazing designed for solar gain in winter. However, aside from masses of insulation, air source with UFH and solar PV/battery, we’re looking at MVHR too. My question is can and how would MVHR (Zehnder Q350) with summer mode assist with UFH for cooling? Is it just by increasing the effective convection/air circulation? Really keen to hear your thoughts 🤞
I'm also looking at Zenhder units, there is an add on unit that goes on top for cooling, it is a module. I'm researching if it can work well for cooling. Happy to bounce ideas about it as I have similar project in place.
When a heatpump is heating your hot water cylinder the evaporator outside gets cold.
Could this 'free' cold air be directed/ducted into the house on these rare heat wave days?
You would have to uninstall and reinstall ducting.. also this adds resistance to the main fan.. lastly.. it will only give 20 mins of air which won't do much
@@HeatGeek thanks.
Could you do a episode on ground source, borehole heat pump.
How do they configure their heat pumps in US? I cant imagine they use rads for cooling
A2a... the US is hardly a beacon of efficiency though...
Geothermal and air source, air to air units. Must are probably ductless mini-splits.
When I have specified air-to-water heat pumps in the US, we connect to “fan coil units” or water-appropriate cooling coils in air handling units connected to duct work. The latter is done to reduce valves and pipe work complexity while customers here are very accustomed to cool air from centralized ductwork. People here think one MUST have ductwork to even consider GSHP. Only a few times do we get to connect to radiant floor and in those cases, we use some fan coils sized only for cooling that are able to run separately in summer. In winter, they help with rapid warm up if the owner has forgotten how radiant floor actually works (it is hard to beat the “set back” thinking out of people, but a large stick helps…). Hot tank + cold tank for buffer and allowing “simultaneous” (really switched) heating vs. cooling. Yes, we are “hardly a beacon of efficiency”.
Air to air seems like the best option if you want cooling
Outstanding video
I run four fanned radiators on my weather compensated systems (down stairs UFH) all have three speed fans manually selectable to achieve the correct heat input per room, each unit has a 8 watts fan draw maximium and wired into fused spurs from the upstairs ring via the sockets in each room, this in practice is straghtforward as long as no other supply has been taken from that socket on a ring mains.
They need a service every year as they collect dust due to large air movement through a mass of alloy plates fitted to 8mm or 10mm copper pipe, they are fed with 15mm copper and each set of pipes is connected to a common 22mm copper carcass branched off of 28 mm copper Nr the boiler, the 28mm feeds the UFH with 12 feeds and returns, no blending, no pump and no thermastatic control as the weather comp directly controls heating water temp.
They are noisey and if not cleaned thoughley make even more noise, having said that you soon get used to the noise and its not that bad, I run the fans on there mid speed as thats the heat output required, they also only come on at around 30 degs flow as they have built in pipe stats and a built in thermostat so once the room is up to temp they turn off, this give a deg of control as everyone's heat requirment is different in each room.
As for runing them for air cooling this would be a problem as the frame is open underneath for air to be drawn in and condensation cannot be collected. They would need servicing again before being used for air cooling as dust collects easy due to close spacing of the alloy fins on the heat exchange.
Hope that gives you some more insight into cylindrical fanned radiators designed for low water temp systems.
There was a really good chart of available ASHPs with their tested SCOP values, can anyone remind me where it is?
Please share if you find it, there is so little standardisation that it's a minefield for consumers
Advertised SCOPs are not worth the paper they're written on.
@@hvacdesignsolutions they are verified in order to be on the MCS database though, right?....
You HeatGeek guys should talk to John Williams at Chiltrix/ Hotspot Energy in Virginia US about his psychometric controller that does the dew point control of LWT for AWHP to avoid condensation.
Have you looked into the option of intigrating cooling with a MVHR system for new / whole renovation projects? or would the volumes involved be nowhere near the required capacity needed for useful cooling?
I had the same thought, I have installed a heating batt into my MHRV system but you can also use it for cooling the air coming into the house. You do have to make sure that all the air ducts are insulated though to prevent condensation forming on them.
Air volumes are too low
Zehnder has a add on unit to use on their MVHR units to cool the air, I'm researching about it
I'm curious why everything I hear about UK heat pumps is all air-water and distribution using water radiators? All modern buildings here use forced-air, either air-air heat pumps or forced-air natural gas furnaces. With heat pumps, the indoor air handler deals with the condensation in cooling mode. I get that your existing buildings don't have ducting (we have plenty of existing buildings with baseboard resistance heat for that matter), but what about new build? And for retrofits or small condos, people here are just putting in ductless mini-splits. Radiant heat is nice and all but it seems cooling is a big challenge.
anyone know where i can get a fan coil unit in the UK? seem to be hard to buy
I've been looking at retrofitting A2A upstairs for potentially heating and cooling, is there a reason you need fan coils in each room as I've seen rooms ducted from a single large unit in the loft space. This takes up less room but is it less effective?
Just to spread heat. Warning.. a2a is not as comfortable
Ducted systems loose lots of efficiencies. Thermal Loses in the duct work, hard to keep clean etc.
Best to have the units directly in the room. They are the quickest in getting a room to the set point, nothing else comes close
@@darrenr1995 I guess even though they are a bit more work to fit the fan coils, it's still fairly straightforwards upstairs if you can run wiring/condensate/coolant through loft space still
@@bencampbell2041 yes surprisingly easier than ducted. Each house lends its self to different systems though
brilliant video
The price of the cooling chip is hilarious. It would be interesting to get someone to reverse engineer it and see if it can be done for 20p.
It's a simple resister, not a chip! It enbles in-built functionality, it doesn't add it. Should cost around £30, not £350.
Seems Vaillant UK do sell it for £350. It's €40 in europe though.
Happy to have a go!
@@edc1569 It's the vaillant blue chip (used on their gas boilers) . £5. Yes, it's a total rip off!
Are you suggesting zoning for cooling? Finally a use for intelligent valves!
You guys 'Cool Geek' now?
Are the air con fans that Richard described effectively mini-splits connected to the same heat pump?
Yes but via system water not feidge
@@HeatGeek Ah great. Yeah I’m with you on this as we only need cooling at most a few weeks a year. It’d be great if you could show us a working example of what was discussed.
@@amritbhupal8514 were still testing it.. filming more tomorrow
Air-source heat pump with ductless mini-splits are the way to go not trying retrofit to radiators. Ductless mini-splits are available in single or multi-head units. It's so frustrating listening to Europeans talk about heat pumps that seem limited in the thinking.
Can you recommend where or with whom to get this from?
@@PjSaidsLifestyleChannel I can only tell you where to get it in the US.
Is this highlighting a fundamental limitation of hydronic systems? Should we be considering air heating / cooling units and circulate refrigerant directly instead of water?
When the HeatGeeks started this I assumed they were installing some clever valves and putting the ASHP in reverse to provide a Compressed R290 cooling loop to inside AC "Fan Coil Units" I'd like to see them add this to their system and see what the performance difference. Not sure if there are any ASHPs that allow this reversal out the box though.
@@andyca15 they did mention some heat pumps don't support or require a controller box to support cooling
I think it is highlighting that one size does not fit all. There is no perfect system for our varied housing stock and each case needs to be addressed on an individual basis. Air to air works better in small areas. For example when we went on holiday the villa we stayed at had 5 split air con units. Not cheap to install, maintain or run!
Circulating refrigerant directly into the indoor unit(s) for both heating and cooling is far more efficient and effective than transferring the energy to water. All AC systems are heat pump based too
Circulating refrigerant directly into the indoor unit(s) for both heating and cooling is far more efficient and effective than transferring the energy to water. All AC systems are heat pump based too
Is air to water really better then air to air?? Air to air can heat and cool very efficiently with tiny indoor units not massive radiators.
I don't think we did say it was better? The reason a2w is installed is becaise most houses already have rads.. comfort wise a 2 w is much better though yes
@@HeatGeek A common misconception of a2a systems.
@@Boodieman72 what is?
@@HeatGeek Comfort is much better with a2w
@@Boodieman72 Yeah, I'm wondering if they've ever put any in... The fact that hes having to ask if fancoils modulate their fans says enough about it...!
The most annoying part of enabling 'cooling' on ASHPs (and paying a ridiculous amount for a chip) is the fact that most of them have all the control logic / valves on board to do it anyway - the defrost cycle works by extracting heat from the system/house and pushing it into the heat exchanger to melt the ice off (and so pushes heat outside). This is the exact same process as cooling mode.
Correct. Some don't need the chip though
@@HeatGeek would you mind sharing which brand/models don't need this chip with exorbitant costs?
@Alex Bleicker I don't know. But the ones the ones that do have it are less likely to be as cheap to run...
I'm doing some research into this at the moment and found a product from a company called variotherm. It's modular ceiling heating and promotes cooling as one of its features.
I was wondering if anyone has heard about it and/or has some experience with this? I would be to hear your opinions :)
they also do wall panels and ufh
This is simply therotical clap trap that is defective and bad ideas. You will nearly always get condensation that will lead to rusting and staining. Just like most accedemic approaches you are missing the most obvious and easiest solution for cooling from a normal and standard installed heat pump. You simply divert the chilled air extract from the outdoor unit back into the house whilst heating the hot water taps. Easy peasy and achievable with limited DIY skills. A temporary sumer lash up like this provides great home cooling that can then be removed for the colder seasons. This is what I do and it works great.
Surely that requires the heat pump to be heating something - presumably the hot water? So in order to get cooling you either need a hot water tank to heat or to run the hot water tap on order to cool the house. If your hot water tank reaches temperature I guess you're back to running the hot water tap to continue cooling your house? If what I've described is accurate I'm not convinced by this solution.
That wouldn't provide enough energy
If it's a bit chilly we can wear more clothes, but us humans are not designed to deal so well with heat.
Thinking about the future... what if systems were configured/designed with cooling as the priority..?
Ground source heat pumps are expensive and alot of us were conned. Yep throw out your existing systems throw money on the fire Air Conditioners will cost less and you don't need to dig up the Garden.
I don't get this sort of heat pump system. Why do you need radiators at all. A standard air-conditioning unit is basically a heat pump. Hot in Winter. Cold in Summer. No radiators. Blows air hot or cold so disperses the temperature. A 12 KW unit is huge. Would do most English houses easily surely. My hot water heat pump was just a small air compressor heating the water with pressure. It is all made to sound very complicated but isn't the whole concept just regulating the pressure of a given fluid to create hot or cold. Increase get hot. Decrease get cold. Change the property of the fluid change the effect of the pressure. A car radiator on steroids. Pressure cap and various additives. You look at a lot of American systems or Aussie systems with ducted air seems way better. The Yanks run heat exchangers to cool or heat incoming air for better efficiency. We haven't got to that stage yet in Oz but then our houses have terrible R value or U value to you. Still single glazed. On a new build my air-conditioning guys 2 of them. Can fully carcase out the whole house in a day. Fit off only a few hours. Wifi connected. Fully app controlled from anywhere. Each outlet zoned for individual comfort. Fraction of the price of your type of installs. Your gas/hydrogen system intrigued me combined with the power generation. But these heat pumps simply operating over sized radiators through over sized pipes. Still don't get it.
It’s hard to change the traditions of heating a house for that country. We have always had radiators in the UK, so everyone loves them here. We are based in UK and install gas and AC. Air to air was mainly in offices but it’s rapidly being taken up in homes now. You are correct in what you describe though, all these new air source heat pumps have a refrigeration side, which is exactly the same as the system in a air conditioning condenser. Transferring it over to water through a plate heat ex just makes it fit into our systems.
@@darrenr1995 Very true. I am English and lived there 36 years. Traditional to the point of stupidity some times. There was a trend a few decades ago for ducted air in the UK in houses. I worked on the install of a few with the register plates in the floors and skirts we had to cut in. Two of my friends had it in their houses. Radiators are a pain. If people want an up to date system why bother merging old with new. Look at the wall space you free up with no rads. You need more convincing salesmen. On a new build even worse. Who would want to install rads. More space. Easier maintenance. Easier to operate. No risk of leaks and damage by water. Lot cheaper to install. The last one will clinch the deal. You wouldn't fit many more Radiators. It is supposed to be the 21st Century not the 19th.
I have often thought this 12 kW sounds large but could you get away with one. Would the heat disperse to the other side of the house rather than rising up though the floor of the room its in and out the house ? Obviously the hotwater issue exists as well.
You're solutions are far too complex, difficult to install and far too expensive. The answer is to install air-to-air minisplits and to target the heating/cooling where it is needed. Forget central heating. Minisplits are so cheap and easy to install and run (assuming you have space for a heat pump) that more than one could be installed, removing the need for any internal ducting. An immersion heater/heat pump can be used for hot water using solar/off-peak electricity.
It’s very true, we install AC in the uk. Only a 4/5kw condenser needed to heat or cool a house, with multiple indoor units. They can change a rooms temp up or down within minutes, removing humidity on cooling mode too.
Creates a very pleasant environment.
the problem is the mini-splits are ugly and I wouldn't have them in my house. This could be a solution for the generally moderate UK climate if the UFH works as a heat sink.
To American ears, this entire series is a bit comical: “UK people suddenly discover a need for cooling”. In the US, “ASHP” = “air con” in UK we do cooling with them and are just now figuring out heating with them. There is almost no knowledge of air-to-water HP’s connecting to hydronic distribution (equally baffling, but none of the big makers sell air-to-water in the US!). I have NEVER met anyone with GSHP in the US doing what you all call “passive” GS cooling - using GSHP with air ductwork for cooling is a huge piece of why Americans install GSHP in the first place. You all are like an alternative universe of ASHP vs. our air-to-air focused market. I am a fan of your approach and would love to see more air-to-water HP’s especially with low GWP units like Vaillant or R-32. Our installers are releasing R-410a all over and running refrigerant linesets 2,3,4 and 5 per house like varicose veins all over the outside of the house. Keep up the good work, lads. Tom from NY
Haha great comment. We call air to air, air con too!.. however real air conditioning should include co2 control and humidity control!
Heat pumps have to run and run and run and run and run to do their job of conditioning a space.
The noise pollution of the fans running 24/7 is a problem.
It’s like driving out to the sea to enjoy the view of the ocean and BAM, huge ugly windmills everywhere.
Heat pump fans make neighbourhoods noisy and ugly.
I would suggest actually seeing a modern unit in real life.
@@HeatGeek I have, and they run and run and run, adding noise pollution outside.
Plus, who is going to pay for everyone to throw out the old noisy ones for a new one? Heat pumps are great in some cases, but there is a good reason they have a slow adoption rate. There is a trade off for the implementation of any device. Heat pumps are noisy, expensive, complex, clunky, and ugly. It’s not just about the decibal levels, but the low drone noise and vibration they put off.
The old fart is right, any time you have to subsidize something so much, one is saying “ I know you don’t want to do this, but here, I’ll pay you off to do it”.
We don’t have to get off fossil fuels, we just need to use fossil fuels way more efficiently.
Just think of the power used to run all these TH-cam videos people are making to chase a profit.
Heat geek videos are worth the power, but I reckon 10% of the videos on TH-cam are productive.
@@markhoffman they are less collective and as noisy as a boiler. If you think you've been near a new unit, you haven't.
@@HeatGeek At -25 Celsius outdoor air temp, 60,000 BTU required heating load, what is the quietest unit you can recommend? What are the decibals of the outdoor fan ,and what is the price?