Ngl he lowkey did when he went after meme rappers not being passionate about the craft but the question is, is Yuno a meme rapper who’ss dedicated and passionate? That’s a gray area and we’ll never know for sure
@@edgytypebeat781Yuno is a passionate memer. He definitely can make decent music that can go easily with the pop listener audience but he specifically prefers to do meme rap.
Odd future started because they DID care about music and it was out of the box creative music so it's not hypocritical for Tyler to call out people today who make music for it to be a Tiktok sound rather than an authentic love for music as an artform.
What are you talking about making music for Tik Tok ian is literally making more music than Tyler is now he's putting in more hours he's not making music for Tik Tok just because He has good numbers on Tik Tok doesn't mean he's a tick tock artist tik Tok is the best way for new artists to grow why would he not use that platform and it's not like he's solely making music for it brain dead take
@@blap9467I assume labels are targeting less known/talented artist because they’re more desperate for a record deal so it’s easier to get them into a 360 contract and get more money out of them.
@@daddles. That's exactly the problem, some people found controversy ignoring the whole message, the nuance and the thought behind the statement. Predicting drama in social media is not a feat of farsight, but it's pretty funny to me (and I'd bet for many people more).
@@daddles.He literally said bar for bar he knows that somebody is just gonna make a Twitter clip with no context and not highlight any of the good he said
@@MalakianM2S no, he basically said the media is booty because they don't actually speak to musicians about music, just the BS around them. and when he spends half an interview actually talking about just music, fans get mad and the rest of the media just clips the nonsense and skips the actual music conversation.
White suburban kids love to reuse black culture and terminology (look at blud, gyat, unc, etc.). They don’t know what the terms mean, they just think they sound funny/their favorite (black) artists use it. Also kinda goes hand in hand with the whole Ian of it all.
The thing that really gets me is that a lot of the time, rap is used as an easy stepping stone to success just because it's popular right now. Like, I have no problem with people who aren't part of a scene making that style of music if they genuinely like and appreciate it, but you get people that co-opt the struggle of the people who LIVED that scene in the process. Like, a white guy from the suburbs can like gangster rap, bling rap, west coast hip hop or whatever and make music in that style. HOWEVER, you gotta talk about shit that actually pertains to you. Use the sound that you like while still making it personal; not shading anyone in particular here, but don't talk about ops and shit when you don't have any lmao 💀I think Tyler's talking about how you gotta be genuine and understand that while you can make a specific type of music, you won't be able to capture everything about that art unless you lived the situation in which it arose in the first place. Instead, use the genre to talk about interesting things in your own life rather than sound like you're regurgitating the tropes of the genre or past artists within the genre. I don't know much about ian so I'm not gonna claim that this is what he does, but there's a lot of shitty rap out there that's clearly trying to capitalize on a trend or chase a viral hit in the laziest way possible rather than make a statement and have an identity of any kind. Tyler's also correct in the sense that a lot of viral figures that have their rap songs blow up right now don't really view rap as an art so much as a gimmick to get more exposure without proper thought into what they're creating. Tyler's early career might have been filled with trolling and relied on shock factor, but it still felt like he was trying to do something unique out of respect for horrorcore and other rap genres before him. Or, at the very least, what he was doing felt different and like he actually had some ideas for his own persona and/or sound. Like I said, a lot of rap, especially coming from influencers and former SoundCloud guys, doesn't sound like they're putting their own spin on a sound they like. It sounds like they're trying to capitalize on a popular sound to get attention because nothing else is interesting about them otherwise. Granted, I also will agree with Anthony that Tyler totally has survivor bias when it comes to "everything being more unique in the 2000's". How many Linkin Park and The Strokes ripoffs did we get back then? How many shitty pop and club tracks that faded into irrelevancy did we get back then? It had some heat but a lot of it was bland and redundant as hell lmao So I guess Tyler's not wrong in that it's a lot easier to use hip hop as a marketing trend and gimmick these days and how we're seeing a lot of viral hits that are doing absolutely nothing interesting, but he does give off some boomer vibes in his tangent about shit from 2003 💀
@@nikguimont8546 Right! Beastie Boys are a great example; they were either silly and absurd to capture the fun of the production at the time or actually talked about stuff relevant to them like on To the 5 Boroughs in the aftermath of 9/11. They definitely respected the genre in a way that made them feel like a new niche in the scene rather than wannabe gangsters or imposters lmao
@@leaffinite2001 Yeah, I can see that. I guess with radio filtering a lot of the no-name imposters that helped make it seem like there wasn't as many or that they were given less time. Granted, radio also filtered out a lot of unique shit too, so I don't know if Tyler's point is as good as he thinks it is because Tyler himself probably wouldn't have been given much of a chance back then either, tbh. The Internet might give more opportunities for culture vultures to gain fame, but it ALSO lets people who are more off-kilter and against the mainstream like old Tyler gain fame, too.
I think what people misunderstood about Tyler’s issue with this current generation (last 2 years) isn’t so much so “not taking yourself seriously” but “not taking the art form seriously”. Tyler was obvious a young troll back in the day, but he never used the genre as an aesthetic as a stepping stone, but someone who was inspired by the greats before him, even if that work (Goblin) want the greatest.
Exactly, when he says they aren't musicians, while that's arguable, maybe they shouldn't be considered real artists in the way that they're not really making music as art, but as content to be consumed maybe? He wasn't as serious back in the day but he was absolutely making thoughtful art imo
THIS!!! I was hoping someone would say that! There is a HUGE difference between being a goofball that likes to joke around and treating your ART FORM as a joke! As someone who clearly loves rap, it makes sense that he'd be upset about people trying to cash in on it like that!
he absolutely did as almost any famous musician has. his whole shock rap thing was a gimmick to get people talking about him. anyone coulda easily said he wasn’t “taking music seriously” as well.
@@ghosts288yeah but that was the music Tyler listened to, Tyler liked dark storytelling albums so therefore he made dark storytelling albums. Therefore Tyler did not use a genre he enjoys thoroughly to “gain traction”.
YEAH I CAN'T BELIEVE IT BECAUSE TYLER DA GOAT 🐐 NO CAP FOR REAL!!! *EDIT:* I typed tyler was goated. Nothing else, please don't let the comments below me fool you. ha ha ha Dang you still scrolling this comment? Good. I love you bro. No homo by the way... yep... Cool. Awesome. While you're scrolling down I have a question. You think I should put checkpoints? I think I should. You're tired. CHECKPOINT🚩 heh. did you enjoy the checkpoint? This is going to be a long one. Good luck. I'll ... ending it here, hope you have enjoyed this beautiful scrolling journey for nothing! k bye!
You know what’s a problem? Media literacy. Because most of what Tyler said is being taken the complete wrong way. It’s not that hard folks. He’s literally saying he doesn’t mind the meme music. It’s more so the industry who is rolling the red carpet out for them and treating them as serious artists. This is a problem as old as time. The industry is now trying to chase the next big thing and milk it into the ground. But now that memes are blowing up in record time on TikTok the industry (publishers/media) are now trying to mine it. And he’s just saying they are ignoring real artists. And of course the major issue with this is the “looking for a man in finance” girl isn’t an actual artist.
Who is "the industry" here though? Like people will listen to who they want to listen to and labels will gravitate towards wherever the attention is, how is that Ian's fault?
@@stellar1252 people who listen to music that's delivered to them through algorithms and popularity are basically just following what the record industry promotes. For most people, spotify, the radio, club DJs are shaping what they want to listen to
Tyler has said on many interviews that once he got recognised, around 18yo, solely for being funny online - he went home and deleted everything of being silly from his online presence. Then stayed away from pranking for ages and focused only on music. I find it a misrepresentation that he was fine with being funny. No, once he realised it was overshadowing his music, he wound it back in strategically.
Why is it a problem to make ‘insincere’ music? Music should not need to be profound in order to be viewed as legitimate. In fact, meme music can be just as profound in its own right. I don't see why people completely write it off as if it has no place. Art is a form of expression, the whole point of it is that there are no hard boundaries or rules. If people enjoy making meme music then they should be allowed to do so, I don't think it means that those people are less talented or that they shouldn't be respected as artists. What they are doing is an art in and of itself. There is no solid right or wrong way to make music.
*Whispering* I don't want to say this too loud and give it away, but part of you is old now. It may be more of your soul than your body, but some part of you will be yelling at clouds soon too. Every generation in virtually every musical genre (and art form in general, good lord look at the fine arts) is that way. You've just accumulated enough enough Steam Achievements in life to see it all roll over. Even Tyler, with some age on him, cares much more deeply about the artform he works within even though he was obviously always passionate. Age, legacy, and the ability to look backwards tend to emphasize these things to a greater degree since they all act like a magnifying glass. There were plenty of old heads back in the day that had very similar criticisms of Tyler. It really is cyclical. Give it 20+ years and we'll be watching the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induct Soundcloud mumble rappers and meme artists, a decade prior we'll see Tyler quite possibly on that stage as well. This dialogue will always exist in the arts and is of some value, as it does take care to remember what came before, but it is typically better accepted when it is accompanied with the acceptance that art and music do change, these days at a very fast pace, and that we don't have to throw away what came before to appreciate what is currently coming down the pipeline.
We live in a age of shorts which are completely taken out of context. Personally speaking, I saw one clip of this interview, and thought Tyler was kind of gatekeeping the rap culture, which I thought was hypocritical, as artists like him have changed the rap culture completely (for the better imo). After watching more of the interview I completely get his point and agree that rap culture shouldn't be made a mockery of.
What rap culture. Tyler has songs where he graphically talks about violent crimes against women lol. That’s culture? I guess you can be hypocritical as long as you make music that people like
@@P111R1 ahh yes it's only culture when it appeal to my sense of purity & morality. American Psycho was never culture, nor are the paintings, books or media that depict violence. One of the most famous paintings ever is literally a monster eating kids.
1:00 - Wesley's Theory 5:47 -For Free? 9:22 - King Kunta 15:37 - Institutionalized These Walls 20:57 26:50 - u 32:50- Alright 38:21 - For Sale? 43:03 - Momma 48:10 - Hood Politics 54:08 - How Much a Dollar Cost 59:31 - Complexion (A Zulu Love) 1:04:07 - The Blacker the Berry 1:08:49 - You Ain't Gotta Lie (Momma Said) 1:12:30 - i 1:17:38 - Mortal Man
A month ago everyone as agreeing with Kendrick about cultural outsiders trying to game the Hip Hop genre being a bad thing, but suddenly when Tyler hints at a real-life example of this hes in the wrong? For what exactly? Pointing out that a white kid thats pretending to be black is possibly a bit insulting to actual black artists?
Nobody pretending to be black, and hes not doing anything wrong. Your logic is terrible by tje way. I guess blacks will never be able to play the piano, its not their culture.
yeah, or that artists posturing can be in The Business, i.e. 'get the bag' but they should think how they shift the perspective of children on music? i haven't seen an ian interview, honestly i don't think tyler was talking abt him, but if what ian did *not* do is: · come out to say 'yeah artists *should* talk about their music first, and i try to respect the culture i am a guest in' and he instead: · felt perfectly described, then called out then something may just be wrong
Culture doesn’t happen along racial lines, you have a poor understanding of what a culture is if you think culture is racially determined, its more about proxemics, and everyone now a days is listening to hip hop no matter your race
I don’t see how people can find Tyler’s comments about “meme musicians” hypocritical at all. What I think Tyler is getting at is the lack of pursuit “meme musicians” have - or maybe he’s criticizing the direction of the pursuit not being towards artistry. Odd Future was never meme music. The members were brash, eccentric, and left-field, sure, but when it came down to music they all clearly had specific visions for what they wanted to accomplish. The focus was musicianship. It’s why the sounds that came out of OFWGKTA were so varied. Tyler’s music didn’t sound like MelloHype; MelloHype didn’t sound like The Internet; The Internet didn’t sound like Mike G. “Meme musicians” are focused on the meme as a pursuit. The music is an afterthought. I think that’s what Tyler is getting at. In this way Odd Future can be likened to Beastie Boys, for example. B-Boys subject matter was often humorous, as were their personalities shown through interviews and other press. However, I don’t think anyone could confidently argue that they made meme music because the musicianship was clearly the forethought. Same could be said for a lot of PC musicians. Anyway, I think the point is “meme musicians” don’t actually care about working on their artistry as much as they do furthering a meme (probably for notoriety for the sake of it).
'same as PC musicians' is such a powerful line like yeah gen x's hero eminem hated soulless safe music, gen x hate soulless shock music, of course the first part will swing like a pendulum-- it's not about how you chase attention, it's that when you do have the attention, we're going to judge how you use it and what are you saying saying nothing? ok. doing nothing different musically? ok. that's something too. we're just going to judge you for it, it won't affect your sales, don't worry someone will just propose the thought that you _could_ try to do and say something, or let someone do and say things and that may be a better more expressive world
@@aiocafea dude, OP is most likely referring to PC music, the genre (one of the precursors to hyperpop, roughly same period as Tyler's/Odd Future's debut), not PC music as in politically correct music.
I think a lot of people are taking issue because Tyler called out Ian specificially in the "meme rapper" discussion. Too controversial a pick, taints the conversation tbh. He almost needed a more extreme example like Island Boys lmao.
I think I disagree with the sentiment of Tyler’s earlier career being ideologically akin to the “meme” rap he’s talking about. Sure he was edgy and goofy and whatnot, but it was always very clear he was an *artist*. On those first couple records he may not have always channeled his creativity in a manner that was mature or profound enough to really hold up today…but there was always very clearly a vision behind it.
Agreed. Tyler had TALENT. Some of his oldest work is still very beloved like Yonkers and She. And the “memes” he created with the rest of Odd Future felt authentic and creative.
@@tariqthomas9090 not to mention the acknowledgements from his peers by people like Kendrick Lamar and MF DOOM years before we saw what a great artist Tyler would eventually become, meaning that his peers never saw him as someone mocking rap. also people are pointing out that Tyler was being edgy in his music and as that somehow means he was making "meme rap" like Wu Tang Clan or Three Six Mafia aren't the most celebrated rap groups of all time
@@jorgeskuf Bastard & Goblin era interviews already at the very least proved that there was way more to him than his online and in person antics. how can nobody understand such a clear difference, I haven’t seen any new artist with that kind of real potential in years
When i was younger i hated Tylers music like when i was 14-15 just because of the gimmicky shock value shit i only gave him props cause he made his beats but Goblin was trash Tyler doesnt even like that album anymore Wolf was the best balance of him doing the shock value shit mixed with artistry
This is not true at ALL LMFAO you OBVIOUSLY were still in prek when Tyler the creator was first popping off because EVERYBODY thought he was a meme/comedian more then a true long term rapper, bro was king of vine compilations for a while it ain’t that deep
People need to realize that when Tyler was doing his stupid viral stuff back in the day, it was the advent of Twitter and there was no algorithm as such which people would play into. So he was genuinely being silly. What he said about rappers mocking refers to them portraying something which is not mot genuine but more playing into an algorithm.
Yeah, life pre-algorithm people only ever did things 100% genuinely and nothing was ever deliberately controversial for attention. Truly an age to be alive.
I mean kendrick totally backs up what Tyler said on not like us in that last verse where he calls the biggest artist in the world out for being a copycat of a bunch of big names
@@BrandonAyong theres a difference between calling out one of the biggest artists in the world and calling out a kid who just started his career. tyler will forever be my goat. but i strongly disagree with his and fantano's assessment here. really disappointing
@@0siirisYou completely misunderstood the point of Not Like Us and Tyler’s/Fantano’s assessment lol. Boundaries must be set with black art as our shit has been taken and gentrified for over a century at this point. Ian is just the latest example of white mediocrity overshadowing black excellence.
5:19 Just to be clear, by "Meme Record" Tyler's talking about artists that put 0 effort into their music besides showing up and saying garbage lines into the microphone. Not music like he and Odd Future produced from the ground up when they first came onto the scene that while being vulgar, still had a level of depth to them newer artists today wish they could have.
I really feel like his "hot take" that's spreading around is linked to what he was talking about prior to this - how easy it is nowadays (NOT JUST FOR 'THE KIDS') to create a beat without knowing anything about song structure, chord progression, etc etc. So his gripe doesn't seem like to me based SOLELY ON the "meme records" but the fact that the "meme records" are so easily made and so populating the genre today because of the ease-of-use a lot of the tools have become. you can make something exactly like someone else without being original to yourself at all. he also talked about the homogenous nature of the world BECAUSE of the internet so I really feel like that's part of his gripe here specifically too.
I specifically like what he said about current rap artists not caring about their artistry. Many of them focus on money and status, rather than creating something meaningful and important. Now I’m not saying everything has to be important and meaningful, more like they should CARE about the things they are putting out into this world more than they currently are.
I always looked at it like this: The barrier to get into music isn't really that hard anymore like it was back in the day. So with the advent of having more musicians/artists out there, a lot of people of differing skills enter the fray. While it's easier to put your music out in the world and make money, your discoverability is clouded due to so many vying for attention.
@@TedBilkI’d say what the industry wants and supports is the same. How they go about it is different. Before you’d have buildings filled with people building up and discovering talent, being interwebbed with radio shows and magazines to get the newest hints on what was coming up in the culture. Nowadays that’s all relegated to maybe 3 people who delegate the roles of all 20 artists in their team, and are tasked with somehow finding the next big thing using metadata and algorithms. So then all development, most marketing falls on the artist and their team. They’re not learning as many fundamentals to being a successful artists. They’re not being trained in the proficiency of what they’re doing as much. They’re herded from spot to spot doing sponsored ads and endorsements and featured interviews to collect on their investment as their gimmick and sound wears out as they’re genuinely never given time to develop. Sometimes artists get a chance to develop and they flourish. Other times they manage to shine under the pressure. Most times it doesn’t even stick the landing on the debut and they’re told to figure out how to go viral on tik tok without being able to release music cause that costs too much.
There have been artists, rappers esp, call out other artists for getting into the business purely for profit. I wanna say as early as the 2000s you already had some folks getting onto each other for their craft. It just not a new topic, but as the genre grows and expands I’m sure we gonna have artist of today do the same shit to future artists😅
As someone who's not really in the music space, I understand both sides of the argument, but why are we making it such a big deal? Why can't people just do shit they like if they enjoy it?
Only thing there comes to mind is “ Ice Ice Baby” it’s nothing new.. there comes someone who isn’t talented and gets famous for a moment and forget about in a heartbeat later…!
@@bacht4799Ian might not be crazy talented. But his music (in my opinion) is catchy and fun to listen to. Not everything needs to be a big musical symphony with deep layers
No he really wasn't, people accepted the antics because people love that shit. The same way people loved Travis Scott's antics because it created drama and controversy. People are trashy. People like trashy behavior.
11:50 and just listen to that sentence for a second, an song called fucken "yonkers" was revolutionary to hiphop and changed the scene in a way. meanwhile ian is someone who i only know bc of his dicking around. theres a massive difference between fucking around as a joke and fucking around being your entire career while bringing (as fantano said) nothing new to the table. that was the point i think tyler was trying to make even if it wasnt immediately obvious.
I totally agree on his sounding the same argument personally Eminem said the exact same thing "I came up in a time where you had to be so different from the next person or you were labelled trash . Now a shift happened where if it doesn't sound like everything else its labelled trash by many people " They're not saying copy cats didn't exist they saying that they were not given a pass . You couldn't be a jay clone or a cheap outkast and make it big you would have been laughed at
Hate to break it to you but em is literally Ian. Both aren’t doing anything relatively new. You mix an alright rapper + white, you got the best marketable product to the general population. The issue is, middle America hates admit shit like this bc, to admit it means race finds play apart in selling products
Discounting Tyler’s opinion -a rap industry veteran- alone is an insane thing to do, but to act like he’s not right about Ian is even wilder. He’s just a gimmick rapper, nothing original and you can tell he’s not in it for the love of hip hop. dudes a vulture, nothing more
So what? He's making money and doing what he loves Isn't that what every other black meme musicians do? Is it cuz he's whiet that's an issue? I thought Tyler was always about doin what you love and ignoring the haters. But now he's just s hater himself. Tyler pushing 40 and its showing
@@Sayiiid That's not what an appeal to authority is. For an appeal to authority fallacy to be valid, you would need to take a person's status and then use their status as a reason why they're right in an UNRELATED way. Like saying a doctor is right about something to do with the law, because he's a doctor. It wouldn't be a fallacy to say a doctor is right about something when it relates to their field, even though technically they could be. They would be wrong, but it wouldn't be an appeal to authority fallacy. Tyler is a rapper. When he talks about rap, he might be wrong, but it's not an appeal to authority fallacy.
@@Noooiiiissseee Talking just to talk, do you do that often? Tyler is a rapper, not a rap analyst social commentary guru, he's not spending his life trying to be professor skye or Fantano.
It's the country season, even Beyonce jumped on it, but in the end, they'll back to their old form again. From many experiences, I guess Ian might use rap fame to be a film director or indie pop artist later like Childish Gambino, Quadeca, Kevin Abstract, BLP Kosher, but my guess might be wrong, he may be just a white dude that influences by rap musics on youtube and want to be like them.
9:00 the difference is tyler was by all means sonically unique and passionate about his craft; yea he goofed around... he still does but he was able to seperate it from the art
At least lil Dicky had jokes even if they were stupid Ian is the joke Also one piece fuck ya I’m currently at Zou loving it but hoping my second Fav Sanji comes back soon
@@nikguimont8546In fairness too, Lil Dicky has some quality tunes when he put effort in. Professional Rapper with Snoop is an example. It was clever and executed well…his wordplay is actually decent. He’s had impressive freestyles too. He actually is talented. Problem with him is his act got old and redundant fast. Yeah, you’re a rich Jew with a small dick, smart in school, out of place in rap. Funny and refreshing at first. Once novelty wore off, he transitioned to TV show
At least lil pump had novel concepts in his songs I could explain like “ what if I wrote a song called Gucci gang and the lyrics are me mostly saying the name of the song “ all of Ian’s music is basically what if a awkward looking white guy raps like future but the productions bad and the album cover doesn’t match the music
sure but Lil B wasn't catchy because he was always off beat (on purpose I know) and the quality of his sound was trash lol. It was all fun and memes. Lil Pump also had that amateur sound of the time but he had catchy hooks in an era when that guaranteed a hit (2015-2017).
the difference being lil pump was actually cocky and saying his music was better than everyone elses. im confused what ian has actually done to make people hate his personality and not just dislike his music. yall are trying to drag a 19yo artists name through the mud with only 1 mixtape out instead of practicing what you preach and trying to criticize him respectfully? make it make sense
@@alexanderweyers441 im pointing out that the two situations are similar. There are differences of course mainly the appearance of the two rappers, the rapper who calls them out, and the year it takes place. The word similar means resembling without being identical. For example, butter and margarine are interchangeable in cooking but have different properties with butter being from animal fat and margarine being plant based.
@@diorsse an upcoming rapper who’s known for his songs “figure it out” and mostly “magic johnson” he mainly uses gucci mane type beats, he’s alright in my opinion but by no means a goat
it honestly feels like he talks to the artists as equals, like 'the kids will follow you, think about what you do' maybe that's the same but i'm 21 and i see how me growing up with ians everywhere maybe i coukd also not have seen rap as a place of self-expression or powerful message also the kind of artist he describes, idk if that's ian, but that says in the interview that they don't care about this music, they would put the final nail in the coffin like 'oh ok this is a transaction'
I don't believe the man who made "Bastard" or even "Goblin" can actually be compared to what's happening in the newer landscape of rap. Yah it was very explicit but it was never sheep mentality, which is why Tyler is Tyler. 🤧
People come at him for making music like Tamale but forget he was making songs like “Answer” right beside them, there is no comparison. Tyler has always had artistry, even his “troll” music had artistry
@@Willow-cw9te bro made "Tron Cat" , "Earthquake" and even "See You Again" my guy and people on his dxck for calling out inauthenticity. The 2020s era of hip hop and average listener is really something else. 🚶🏾♂️
I think people forget that even though Odd Future were trolls, they still showed respect and reverence for the artists that came before them in the game. And like Ant already mentioned Tyler made Yonkers as well as She, Analog, Inglorious, Treehome95, Rusty, Lone, Pilot, Okaga CA, and many other songs during his early career that showed that he has the skills to become an artist among artists. Heck, his song Odd Toddlers is a tribute DOOM
I think a major difference with early Tyler is even if he was irreverent he was taking his art seriously and was trying to make a point with his humor and edginess compared to making a meme record of trying to make a viral tik tok track to chase fame.
I feel like the focus on Tyler being "hypocritical" since he was a mega troll back in the day is pretty irrelevant considering that TYLER himself was ridiculous and over the top. As "the creator" he made music that told stories and pushed the norm which is why we all listened. The music wasn't just a copy of everything before him that he just took and ran with. He was an actual artist beyond the laughing. Not really sure how people are acting like he said something crazy.
I been saying this for a couple weeks now, just a couple days ago I relistened a mfdoom interview talking about how back then, people had to buy a record and then just listen to the music. they had almost nothing else influence them to pick a record, now there are so many factors which push people to listen to a song without any of the factors being connected to art
“In the 2000s everyone sounded so different and people weren’t just flooding the market with money chasing, hollow, copycats of each other just to make money or be popular” Was the prevalence of endless bullshit ringtone rap just a fever dream I had as a teen? Because, like, I’d believe that
I got so mad this on twitter so much How are people glazing this Ian dude so much over ONE ALBUM Someone called him what Eminem did to 90s rap he’s the new version of that Like Elvis
The Elvis comparison is really ironic because one of the reasons Elvis felt so refreshing to mainstream white America is because the previous decade and a half or so was dominated by cheesy pre rock and roll novelty music
I feel like Tyler shouldn’t be talked about like this, he could’ve phrased his words better, and he just got rubbed the wrong way. He’s mostly talking about the industrialization of music, and shouldn’t be called “out of touch” for his beliefs
I don’t think every project or song or even artist in general is supposed to be peak art. A lot of the stuff is just for entertainment purposes and is just fun to listen to. That goes for Ian as well as a Ken Carson or more popular people like Lil uzi. Their music isn’t supposed to be great and they don’t treat it like that it’s just fun to listen and vibe to and still has its right to exist.
Not really. Yuno Miles at least has a unique sound and isn’t just copying whatever style is popular to gain the algorithm (which is pretty much what Tyler is calling out Ian for doing).
People seem to be missing that Tyler isnt even talk shit about ian, hes mainly venting his frustrations on the people who praise and give more shine to his music than actual good, talented rappers.
People always compare the mediocrity of anything in the present to different forms of excellency in the past. Problem is they just forget/never experienced all the garbage of the past.
Whilst initially criticized Tyler for his meme rap comment 12:03 is the exact reason I retracted my statement, yeah he was serious in content but the actual product delivery…. And I think that what he means. The likes of Ian is learning and applying.
I always love that Tyler is passionate and willing to throw his thoughts out in raw form. He’s not always right but I just appreciate his willingness to communicate and throw feelings out there to be discussed.
Tyler said there’s no art in the art anymore. You can only get upset by that if you’re one of those people using music as a profit widget rather than expression of self. Probably esp close to Tyler, who has healed through music and we’ve been able to witness it. Flower boy was personal and sonic growth. He looks around and doesn’t see other artists getting that satisfaction or their fans.
Tyler was always serious about music, making music, loving music, the influences have carried through in his instrumentalisation across his albums even when the themes have matured
I agree with him on the meme artists. I see dozens of aspiring musicians on yt, insta, or on the streets with incredible talent and passion trying to make it, just to be overshadowed by people shitposting. A lot of it is really entertaining, but I feel as if we should reward the efforts of people doing the real innovating.
i feel like this conversation is a good representation of Tek lintowe's "My tek lintowe" "unlearn" & "Soldiers" are some of my favorite pieces of electronic music, while basically the rest of the mixtape is basically soundcloud meme rap i think it's truly a different experience for what so many different fandom of genres want, and even aside from that tape there's plenty of "comedic" rap with insanely good production
I don't really like this tendency to slap the "out of touch" label on an artist when they criticize the direction their medium is headed. You can disagree with their viewpoint, but it's sort of become a way to invalidate a person's position without really making any kind of argument.
So Tyler basically just matured. He going through that thing where shit you like, or find funny or cool, when you're younger no longer something you like, or find funny or cool. Cuz he's older, and a different person now, than he was during his younger, more destructive years. Also I do feel like he'd earned her right to be critical of music a little bit, being someone who lived through criticism and found success, while getting better as an artist.
7:48 wow, clear channel, haven't thought about those chumps in like 20 years. It feels like an entirely pre-citizens united problem. It seemed like a genuine threat that control of the entire American music industry could be completely swayed by like a handful of rich people who didn't care at all about culture and would just strip music of everything but it's earning potential and essentially control what the overwhelming majority of Americans considered to be good, important music. It's possible to say it happened anyway, but back then the thriving and endless online indy music world pretty much didn't exist and artists had basically no hope of success beyond their home state without help from labels, so things turned out better than expected. Since then though we (myself included) have been thoroughly conditioned to just kind of accept that "of course, all power and wealth will end up in the hands of a parasitic few. How else would any industry ever make money?"
I never believed in Ian but after all this hate he is getting i am so scared he will actually become big because this is exactly what happened to young thug , i remember when people trolled him for not saying a single thing in his songs fast forward to today he is considered a legend
Bro what??? Young thug was always hard asf lol, he was hated by racists and then transphobes and anti sjws when he was acting zesty and wearing dresses They hate him because to racists any southern black dude is automatically speaking hieroglyphics for some reason and they reduce their words to mumble rap.
10:27 spot on. Take Peggy as an example. He's the most creative shit talker, and he's never taken his music or what he does that seriously, and yet his music is fire
I think Tyler is absolutely right about Ian, but one thing I also do know about newer Tyler with interviews is that he’s not exactly the best at translating his thoughts. Like how in this interview, as he goes in on Ian, which is totally valid, but he goes in on “people who don’t actually care about the music,” and goes on tangents about how there weren’t these types of artists in like 2003 or something. His kind of callback to 2000 like there were not at least a few artists somewhat similar to Ian who wanted to take advantage of their status and hip hop’s name to make bad music I think was a major part of the reason why people consider his comments “hating on the youth” kinda thing. And the thing is, the most obvious way that people might see Tyler’s kind of argument as not only hating on Ian but to people who actually do care, is that Tyler’s arguments are close to the arguments against mumble rap, how people will claim that “mumble rappers” only care about fame and money and have bad lyrics. Is Ian a culture vulture who only cares about making a quick buck? Yeah, probably. Does anything someone like Playboi Carti or Travis Scott makes completely blow Ian out of the water? Yeah! But I think the main point is that this rhetoric is mainly just flawed. As I’ve said I feel Tyler’s always has struggled to put his thoughts into words in interviews, and in this case I think for many people it feels less like Tyler’s attacking the culture vultures and more like he’s on some bs rap hater philosophy
You know for a FACT that Tyler would NEVER in his life go after Yuno Miles like this 😤😤😤
Yuno tha 🐐
Yuno ain’t signed to Columbia 😂
It's august bro
Ngl he lowkey did when he went after meme rappers not being passionate about the craft but the question is, is Yuno a meme rapper who’ss dedicated and passionate? That’s a gray area and we’ll never know for sure
@@edgytypebeat781Yuno is a passionate memer. He definitely can make decent music that can go easily with the pop listener audience but he specifically prefers to do meme rap.
wait until ian drops flour boy
Lmao
This is hilarious as hell 😂
Nah, im waiting for eager
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Track 1: Cakes and Pies
The amount of people calling Tyler an "oldhead” for him taking a stab at Ian of all artists is crazy
Fr 🗣🔥🔥🔥
Him knowing who Ian is kind of cancels out any old head status lol
And bro that's not even a stab
He just said he doesn't like the lack of respect to the culture this guy has .
@@AlastairRMacdonaldexactly lol
Thank you!!!!
Odd future started because they DID care about music and it was out of the box creative music so it's not hypocritical for Tyler to call out people today who make music for it to be a Tiktok sound rather than an authentic love for music as an artform.
What are you talking about making music for Tik Tok ian is literally making more music than Tyler is now he's putting in more hours he's not making music for Tik Tok just because He has good numbers on Tik Tok doesn't mean he's a tick tock artist tik Tok is the best way for new artists to grow why would he not use that platform and it's not like he's solely making music for it brain dead take
@@fhbb6613 You can't call someone braindead when you don't know how to use a fucking comma.
@@fhbb6613 Quantity doesn't equal quality.
Tyler tryna stand up for the talented rap artists and hip hop artists. Many mediocre people just walked in and got big.
Blame labels bro those mfs will push plants a lot
@@blap9467I assume labels are targeting less known/talented artist because they’re more desperate for a record deal so it’s easier to get them into a 360 contract and get more money out of them.
Ian: "Praying I make it to Friday".
Aint nobody after you dawg 💀
That's clearly a line about overdosing
@@default3252 he's not about that either lol
@@default3252 or his career
@@default3252Ian is NOT that GUY
Gen Z's trying to cancel Ian? 😨😨😨
The funny thing is Tyler even predicted the drama in the very same interview.
That's exactly my thought when I saw the thumbnail of this video!
he said something controversial and predicted controversy? if my grandma had 2 wheels she'd be a bike
@@daddles. That's exactly the problem, some people found controversy ignoring the whole message, the nuance and the thought behind the statement. Predicting drama in social media is not a feat of farsight, but it's pretty funny to me (and I'd bet for many people more).
@@daddles.He literally said bar for bar he knows that somebody is just gonna make a Twitter clip with no context and not highlight any of the good he said
@@MalakianM2S no, he basically said the media is booty because they don't actually speak to musicians about music, just the BS around them. and when he spends half an interview actually talking about just music, fans get mad and the rest of the media just clips the nonsense and skips the actual music conversation.
The internet calling Tyler an oldhead is making me wonder if people even know what an oldhead is.
They're just repurposing slang at this point.
White suburban kids love to reuse black culture and terminology (look at blud, gyat, unc, etc.). They don’t know what the terms mean, they just think they sound funny/their favorite (black) artists use it. Also kinda goes hand in hand with the whole Ian of it all.
Bro is the youngest old head ever 😭
It's almost like it's just a bunch of white boys copying slang they hear on hip-hop without understanding the proper content
ian fans don't, they just joined a new "fandom" after they outgrew digital circus or some other white shit
The difference is that Tyler made a joke of himself as a personality, not the art of his music.
PRECISELY!
🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️🛎️
The thing that really gets me is that a lot of the time, rap is used as an easy stepping stone to success just because it's popular right now. Like, I have no problem with people who aren't part of a scene making that style of music if they genuinely like and appreciate it, but you get people that co-opt the struggle of the people who LIVED that scene in the process. Like, a white guy from the suburbs can like gangster rap, bling rap, west coast hip hop or whatever and make music in that style. HOWEVER, you gotta talk about shit that actually pertains to you. Use the sound that you like while still making it personal; not shading anyone in particular here, but don't talk about ops and shit when you don't have any lmao 💀I think Tyler's talking about how you gotta be genuine and understand that while you can make a specific type of music, you won't be able to capture everything about that art unless you lived the situation in which it arose in the first place. Instead, use the genre to talk about interesting things in your own life rather than sound like you're regurgitating the tropes of the genre or past artists within the genre. I don't know much about ian so I'm not gonna claim that this is what he does, but there's a lot of shitty rap out there that's clearly trying to capitalize on a trend or chase a viral hit in the laziest way possible rather than make a statement and have an identity of any kind.
Tyler's also correct in the sense that a lot of viral figures that have their rap songs blow up right now don't really view rap as an art so much as a gimmick to get more exposure without proper thought into what they're creating. Tyler's early career might have been filled with trolling and relied on shock factor, but it still felt like he was trying to do something unique out of respect for horrorcore and other rap genres before him. Or, at the very least, what he was doing felt different and like he actually had some ideas for his own persona and/or sound. Like I said, a lot of rap, especially coming from influencers and former SoundCloud guys, doesn't sound like they're putting their own spin on a sound they like. It sounds like they're trying to capitalize on a popular sound to get attention because nothing else is interesting about them otherwise. Granted, I also will agree with Anthony that Tyler totally has survivor bias when it comes to "everything being more unique in the 2000's". How many Linkin Park and The Strokes ripoffs did we get back then? How many shitty pop and club tracks that faded into irrelevancy did we get back then? It had some heat but a lot of it was bland and redundant as hell lmao
So I guess Tyler's not wrong in that it's a lot easier to use hip hop as a marketing trend and gimmick these days and how we're seeing a lot of viral hits that are doing absolutely nothing interesting, but he does give off some boomer vibes in his tangent about shit from 2003 💀
You know who were grate white rappers who rapped about stuff that actually involved them the biestie boys
I think tyler was trying to say copy cats were given less respect at that time, not that they didnt exist. But thats not exactly what he said, so eh
@@nikguimont8546they rapped about sht like playing boggle and throwing eggs at randos who passed their studio and they got some fire tracks!
@@nikguimont8546 Right! Beastie Boys are a great example; they were either silly and absurd to capture the fun of the production at the time or actually talked about stuff relevant to them like on To the 5 Boroughs in the aftermath of 9/11. They definitely respected the genre in a way that made them feel like a new niche in the scene rather than wannabe gangsters or imposters lmao
@@leaffinite2001 Yeah, I can see that. I guess with radio filtering a lot of the no-name imposters that helped make it seem like there wasn't as many or that they were given less time. Granted, radio also filtered out a lot of unique shit too, so I don't know if Tyler's point is as good as he thinks it is because Tyler himself probably wouldn't have been given much of a chance back then either, tbh. The Internet might give more opportunities for culture vultures to gain fame, but it ALSO lets people who are more off-kilter and against the mainstream like old Tyler gain fame, too.
I think what people misunderstood about Tyler’s issue with this current generation (last 2 years) isn’t so much so “not taking yourself seriously” but “not taking the art form seriously”. Tyler was obvious a young troll back in the day, but he never used the genre as an aesthetic as a stepping stone, but someone who was inspired by the greats before him, even if that work (Goblin) want the greatest.
Exactly, when he says they aren't musicians, while that's arguable, maybe they shouldn't be considered real artists in the way that they're not really making music as art, but as content to be consumed maybe? He wasn't as serious back in the day but he was absolutely making thoughtful art imo
THIS!!! I was hoping someone would say that! There is a HUGE difference between being a goofball that likes to joke around and treating your ART FORM as a joke! As someone who clearly loves rap, it makes sense that he'd be upset about people trying to cash in on it like that!
Right. On. The. Money.
he absolutely did as almost any famous musician has. his whole shock rap thing was a gimmick to get people talking about him. anyone coulda easily said he wasn’t “taking music seriously” as well.
@@ghosts288yeah but that was the music Tyler listened to, Tyler liked dark storytelling albums so therefore he made dark storytelling albums. Therefore Tyler did not use a genre he enjoys thoroughly to “gain traction”.
calling Tyler out of all artists “an oldhead” is absolutely unhinged
He is tho
@@georged4578 are u 6
@@georged4578finish middle school before forming any kind of complex thought. Thanks
@@georged4578Bros a fetus. Calling you dumb young kids fetus from now on. It’s just as dumb
@@georged4578 "old head is when hating on any new rapper for any reason" -you
I can’t believe they got Anthony Fantano and TheNeedleDrop in the same room.
YEAH I CAN'T BELIEVE IT BECAUSE TYLER DA GOAT 🐐 NO CAP FOR REAL!!!
*EDIT:* I typed tyler was goated. Nothing else, please don't let the comments below me fool you.
ha ha ha
Dang
you still scrolling this comment?
Good.
I love you bro.
No homo by the way...
yep...
Cool.
Awesome.
While you're scrolling down
I have a question.
You think I should put checkpoints? I think I should. You're tired.
CHECKPOINT🚩
heh. did you enjoy the checkpoint? This is going to be a long one. Good luck.
I'll
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ending it here, hope you have enjoyed this beautiful scrolling journey for nothing! k bye!
@@PEANUTWITHAHEADBAND cornball..
@@PEANUTWITHAHEADBANDembarassing comment
@@Aimagecomedianembarrassing way of putting it but dude isn't wrong
@@PEANUTWITHAHEADBANDthats an npc comment😂
You know what’s a problem? Media literacy. Because most of what Tyler said is being taken the complete wrong way.
It’s not that hard folks. He’s literally saying he doesn’t mind the meme music. It’s more so the industry who is rolling the red carpet out for them and treating them as serious artists.
This is a problem as old as time. The industry is now trying to chase the next big thing and milk it into the ground. But now that memes are blowing up in record time on TikTok the industry (publishers/media) are now trying to mine it. And he’s just saying they are ignoring real artists.
And of course the major issue with this is the “looking for a man in finance” girl isn’t an actual artist.
"Media literacy. Its not that hard folks."
Are you aware of how pretentious you sound?
@@Oscar-ek2jx How is asking people to use their mind and analyze things pretentious.... That shit is taught in schools my friend
Who is "the industry" here though? Like people will listen to who they want to listen to and labels will gravitate towards wherever the attention is, how is that Ian's fault?
@@stellar1252 people who listen to music that's delivered to them through algorithms and popularity are basically just following what the record industry promotes. For most people, spotify, the radio, club DJs are shaping what they want to listen to
@@TwoForFlinchin1 you think he’s been algorithmically favored? If so, what’s your evidence?
Tyler has said on many interviews that once he got recognised, around 18yo, solely for being funny online - he went home and deleted everything of being silly from his online presence. Then stayed away from pranking for ages and focused only on music.
I find it a misrepresentation that he was fine with being funny. No, once he realised it was overshadowing his music, he wound it back in strategically.
Why is it a problem to make ‘insincere’ music? Music should not need to be profound in order to be viewed as legitimate. In fact, meme music can be just as profound in its own right. I don't see why people completely write it off as if it has no place. Art is a form of expression, the whole point of it is that there are no hard boundaries or rules. If people enjoy making meme music then they should be allowed to do so, I don't think it means that those people are less talented or that they shouldn't be respected as artists. What they are doing is an art in and of itself. There is no solid right or wrong way to make music.
We’ve reached the day ppl are mad at folks who created and love a culture not wanting to see it be made a mockery. That’s crazy
*Whispering* I don't want to say this too loud and give it away, but part of you is old now. It may be more of your soul than your body, but some part of you will be yelling at clouds soon too. Every generation in virtually every musical genre (and art form in general, good lord look at the fine arts) is that way. You've just accumulated enough enough Steam Achievements in life to see it all roll over. Even Tyler, with some age on him, cares much more deeply about the artform he works within even though he was obviously always passionate. Age, legacy, and the ability to look backwards tend to emphasize these things to a greater degree since they all act like a magnifying glass.
There were plenty of old heads back in the day that had very similar criticisms of Tyler. It really is cyclical. Give it 20+ years and we'll be watching the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induct Soundcloud mumble rappers and meme artists, a decade prior we'll see Tyler quite possibly on that stage as well. This dialogue will always exist in the arts and is of some value, as it does take care to remember what came before, but it is typically better accepted when it is accompanied with the acceptance that art and music do change, these days at a very fast pace, and that we don't have to throw away what came before to appreciate what is currently coming down the pipeline.
We live in a age of shorts which are completely taken out of context. Personally speaking, I saw one clip of this interview, and thought Tyler was kind of gatekeeping the rap culture, which I thought was hypocritical, as artists like him have changed the rap culture completely (for the better imo). After watching more of the interview I completely get his point and agree that rap culture shouldn't be made a mockery of.
What rap culture. Tyler has songs where he graphically talks about violent crimes against women lol. That’s culture? I guess you can be hypocritical as long as you make music that people like
@@P111R1 Try studying up on a little media literacy or critical thinking skills! It's wild you think Tyler condones most of the shit he writes about
@@P111R1 ahh yes it's only culture when it appeal to my sense of purity & morality. American Psycho was never culture, nor are the paintings, books or media that depict violence. One of the most famous paintings ever is literally a monster eating kids.
1:00 - Wesley's Theory
5:47 -For Free?
9:22 - King Kunta
15:37 - Institutionalized
These Walls
20:57
26:50 - u
32:50- Alright
38:21 - For Sale?
43:03 - Momma
48:10 - Hood Politics
54:08 - How Much a Dollar Cost
59:31 - Complexion (A Zulu Love)
1:04:07 - The Blacker the Berry
1:08:49 - You Ain't Gotta Lie (Momma Said)
1:12:30 - i
1:17:38 - Mortal Man
To Pimp A Ian killing Melon Creator
THANK YOUUUU Wish nothing but the best for u
hello?
ALL MY LIFE I HAD TO FIGHT SLIGHTLY TANNED INDIVIDUAL
That gave me a good laugh well done melons up ☝️🍉🍈
A month ago everyone as agreeing with Kendrick about cultural outsiders trying to game the Hip Hop genre being a bad thing, but suddenly when Tyler hints at a real-life example of this hes in the wrong? For what exactly? Pointing out that a white kid thats pretending to be black is possibly a bit insulting to actual black artists?
Nobody pretending to be black, and hes not doing anything wrong. Your logic is terrible by tje way. I guess blacks will never be able to play the piano, its not their culture.
yeah, or that artists posturing can be in The Business, i.e. 'get the bag' but they should think how they shift the perspective of children on music?
i haven't seen an ian interview, honestly i don't think tyler was talking abt him, but if what ian did *not* do is:
· come out to say 'yeah artists *should* talk about their music first, and i try to respect the culture i am a guest in'
and he instead:
· felt perfectly described, then called out
then something may just be wrong
Serious question in what way is Ian pretending to be black ?
Culture doesn’t happen along racial lines, you have a poor understanding of what a culture is if you think culture is racially determined, its more about proxemics, and everyone now a days is listening to hip hop no matter your race
@@ImahardhardworkereverydayWHITE DETETECTED
2:19 to skip sponsor
That's just mean
0:05 Ronnie Radke filed a defamation lawsuit against Tyler the Creator?
I dunno about Tyler but I know ronnie just filed a defamation lawsuit against this guy.
@@kimmers_r6it’s almost like that’s the joke
@@allonblack49 I've been trying to piece everything together and now my head hurts 😂
Ronald Radical files lawsuit against bald teef
I don’t see how people can find Tyler’s comments about “meme musicians” hypocritical at all. What I think Tyler is getting at is the lack of pursuit “meme musicians” have - or maybe he’s criticizing the direction of the pursuit not being towards artistry.
Odd Future was never meme music. The members were brash, eccentric, and left-field, sure, but when it came down to music they all clearly had specific visions for what they wanted to accomplish. The focus was musicianship. It’s why the sounds that came out of OFWGKTA were so varied. Tyler’s music didn’t sound like MelloHype; MelloHype didn’t sound like The Internet; The Internet didn’t sound like Mike G. “Meme musicians” are focused on the meme as a pursuit. The music is an afterthought. I think that’s what Tyler is getting at.
In this way Odd Future can be likened to Beastie Boys, for example. B-Boys subject matter was often humorous, as were their personalities shown through interviews and other press. However, I don’t think anyone could confidently argue that they made meme music because the musicianship was clearly the forethought. Same could be said for a lot of PC musicians. Anyway, I think the point is “meme musicians” don’t actually care about working on their artistry as much as they do furthering a meme (probably for notoriety for the sake of it).
Exactly what I was thinking said greatly
Exactly!!!!
'same as PC musicians' is such a powerful line
like yeah gen x's hero eminem hated soulless safe music, gen x hate soulless shock music, of course the first part will swing like a pendulum-- it's not about how you chase attention, it's that when you do have the attention, we're going to judge how you use it and what are you saying
saying nothing? ok. doing nothing different musically? ok. that's something too.
we're just going to judge you for it, it won't affect your sales, don't worry
someone will just propose the thought that you _could_ try to do and say something, or let someone do and say things and that may be a better more expressive world
@@aiocafea dude, OP is most likely referring to PC music, the genre (one of the precursors to hyperpop, roughly same period as Tyler's/Odd Future's debut), not PC music as in politically correct music.
I think a lot of people are taking issue because Tyler called out Ian specificially in the "meme rapper" discussion. Too controversial a pick, taints the conversation tbh. He almost needed a more extreme example like Island Boys lmao.
I think I disagree with the sentiment of Tyler’s earlier career being ideologically akin to the “meme” rap he’s talking about. Sure he was edgy and goofy and whatnot, but it was always very clear he was an *artist*. On those first couple records he may not have always channeled his creativity in a manner that was mature or profound enough to really hold up today…but there was always very clearly a vision behind it.
Agreed. Tyler had TALENT. Some of his oldest work is still very beloved like Yonkers and She. And the “memes” he created with the rest of Odd Future felt authentic and creative.
@@tariqthomas9090 not to mention the acknowledgements from his peers by people like Kendrick Lamar and MF DOOM years before we saw what a great artist Tyler would eventually become, meaning that his peers never saw him as someone mocking rap. also people are pointing out that Tyler was being edgy in his music and as that somehow means he was making "meme rap" like Wu Tang Clan or Three Six Mafia aren't the most celebrated rap groups of all time
@@jorgeskuf Bastard & Goblin era interviews already at the very least proved that there was way more to him than his online and in person antics. how can nobody understand such a clear difference, I haven’t seen any new artist with that kind of real potential in years
When i was younger i hated Tylers music like when i was 14-15 just because of the gimmicky shock value shit i only gave him props cause he made his beats but Goblin was trash Tyler doesnt even like that album anymore Wolf was the best balance of him doing the shock value shit mixed with artistry
This is not true at ALL LMFAO you OBVIOUSLY were still in prek when Tyler the creator was first popping off because EVERYBODY thought he was a meme/comedian more then a true long term rapper, bro was king of vine compilations for a while it ain’t that deep
I love it so much when Caillou uploads a new video
Hahhaha i don't know why i thought of that Kodak line
lol 😂
Why you gotta do him like that?😂
LMFAOOOAOAOOAOO
He’s a fucking walking paradox, wait no he’s not
Three ways with the triceratops tho?
We need to bring shaming people with no artistic integrity
People need to realize that when Tyler was doing his stupid viral stuff back in the day, it was the advent of Twitter and there was no algorithm as such which people would play into. So he was genuinely being silly. What he said about rappers mocking refers to them portraying something which is not mot genuine but more playing into an algorithm.
Damn, i didn't even think about it that way. That's a good point.
Yeah, life pre-algorithm people only ever did things 100% genuinely and nothing was ever deliberately controversial for attention. Truly an age to be alive.
@@salveteinfernum cone on man, you know there’s a different attitude toward making music under the algorithm than there was before
@harrylane4 no there isn't, people have always wanted to copy whatever is popular, it might be easier now but labels have always been doing this
@@harrylane4 Its literally the same... Did this algorythm also imoregnate your wife?
In the song Massa Tyler explains how a conversation with Pharrell in Italy shifted his perspective on how he presented himself as a musician
Yes
yeah no shit sherlock he talked about that before cmiygl
@@ddlv63get that stick unstuck from your ass
@@ddlv63 chill
@@ddlv63why are you acting like this is common knowledge
Tyler said nothing wrong. People just don’t like their sheepish behavior being called out.
Facts
I mean kendrick totally backs up what Tyler said on not like us in that last verse where he calls the biggest artist in the world out for being a copycat of a bunch of big names
I liked the song with lil yachty what am I supposed to do about that
@@BrandonAyong theres a difference between calling out one of the biggest artists in the world and calling out a kid who just started his career. tyler will forever be my goat. but i strongly disagree with his and fantano's assessment here. really disappointing
@@0siirisYou completely misunderstood the point of Not Like Us and Tyler’s/Fantano’s assessment lol. Boundaries must be set with black art as our shit has been taken and gentrified for over a century at this point. Ian is just the latest example of white mediocrity overshadowing black excellence.
5:19 Just to be clear, by "Meme Record" Tyler's talking about artists that put 0 effort into their music besides showing up and saying garbage lines into the microphone. Not music like he and Odd Future produced from the ground up when they first came onto the scene that while being vulgar, still had a level of depth to them newer artists today wish they could have.
to be clear again; I know there's newer artists that have depth, however the majority of them are not mainstream like the one's he's referring to.
I really feel like his "hot take" that's spreading around is linked to what he was talking about prior to this - how easy it is nowadays (NOT JUST FOR 'THE KIDS') to create a beat without knowing anything about song structure, chord progression, etc etc. So his gripe doesn't seem like to me based SOLELY ON the "meme records" but the fact that the "meme records" are so easily made and so populating the genre today because of the ease-of-use a lot of the tools have become. you can make something exactly like someone else without being original to yourself at all. he also talked about the homogenous nature of the world BECAUSE of the internet so I really feel like that's part of his gripe here specifically too.
Those calling him "oldhead" for not supporting 1 newer "rapper" must be unaware that he had Carti, YB, & Teezo on his last albums
Ah yes playboi carti the young upcoming rapper
Yeah Tyler respects new school rappers with an actual personality and defined style
@@joaquin5929 in 2019 carti was still one foot in the underground
@@joaquin5929only gen z's and gen alphas like carti, so yeah, he's for the kids
@joaquin5929 he's saying that Carti is 28 so he's a young artist
If Ian remembered he was conflicted, you would like him more
Ian - Reminder [2023]
I remember you was conflicted…
AHHHHHHHHH
Maybe if he started misusing his influence and he tried not to self destruct?
😂
I specifically like what he said about current rap artists not caring about their artistry. Many of them focus on money and status, rather than creating something meaningful and important. Now I’m not saying everything has to be important and meaningful, more like they should CARE about the things they are putting out into this world more than they currently are.
I always looked at it like this:
The barrier to get into music isn't really that hard anymore like it was back in the day. So with the advent of having more musicians/artists out there, a lot of people of differing skills enter the fray. While it's easier to put your music out in the world and make money, your discoverability is clouded due to so many vying for attention.
@@Nikorasu26I think the barrier to being a big artist is the same, it's just that there are more levels of fame now
@@TedBilkI’d say what the industry wants and supports is the same. How they go about it is different. Before you’d have buildings filled with people building up and discovering talent, being interwebbed with radio shows and magazines to get the newest hints on what was coming up in the culture. Nowadays that’s all relegated to maybe 3 people who delegate the roles of all 20 artists in their team, and are tasked with somehow finding the next big thing using metadata and algorithms.
So then all development, most marketing falls on the artist and their team. They’re not learning as many fundamentals to being a successful artists. They’re not being trained in the proficiency of what they’re doing as much. They’re herded from spot to spot doing sponsored ads and endorsements and featured interviews to collect on their investment as their gimmick and sound wears out as they’re genuinely never given time to develop. Sometimes artists get a chance to develop and they flourish. Other times they manage to shine under the pressure. Most times it doesn’t even stick the landing on the debut and they’re told to figure out how to go viral on tik tok without being able to release music cause that costs too much.
There have been artists, rappers esp, call out other artists for getting into the business purely for profit. I wanna say as early as the 2000s you already had some folks getting onto each other for their craft. It just not a new topic, but as the genre grows and expands I’m sure we gonna have artist of today do the same shit to future artists😅
As someone who's not really in the music space, I understand both sides of the argument, but why are we making it such a big deal? Why can't people just do shit they like if they enjoy it?
if i was ian, after seeing this, i would make it my life mission to make a track that beats out yonkers
Anyone else never even heard of Ian until Tyler said something 😅😅 and I’m only 25
I had no idea who Ian was, his music sounds obnoxious to me from what I’ve heard since Tyler mentioned him 😂
Me😂
I'm 22 and I'm just finding out about him. Actually I still don't know if he even has a last name
@@raulramirez8885 I think his artist name is lan like how people want just one name
I'm in highschool and I've never heard of him until I saw this vid.
Infact, I didn't know any of this was going on until now. 😭
It feels like Ian is just so bad Tyler thinks it has to be a joke lol
It’s all a joke 🤷🏻♂️
Is he not...?
Only thing there comes to mind is “ Ice Ice Baby” it’s nothing new.. there comes someone who isn’t talented and gets famous for a moment and forget about in a heartbeat later…!
@@bacht4799Ian might not be crazy talented. But his music (in my opinion) is catchy and fun to listen to. Not everything needs to be a big musical symphony with deep layers
Its just not that bad
We accepted Tyler’s bs antics back in the day because he was actually TALENTED
and tbh his albums weren’t just some meme joke. he was telling a story
He still is fym
@@xMoldyMacaroniyou misread it, he is saying that old Tyler is talented and Ian isnt which is why people accepted what old Tyler did
@@xMoldyMacaronireading comprehension is very hard
No he really wasn't, people accepted the antics because people love that shit. The same way people loved Travis Scott's antics because it created drama and controversy. People are trashy. People like trashy behavior.
1:21 I'm seeing double, four Melons!
2 of them are Logic
11:50 and just listen to that sentence for a second, an song called fucken "yonkers" was revolutionary to hiphop and changed the scene in a way. meanwhile ian is someone who i only know bc of his dicking around. theres a massive difference between fucking around as a joke and fucking around being your entire career while bringing (as fantano said) nothing new to the table. that was the point i think tyler was trying to make even if it wasnt immediately obvious.
I totally agree on his sounding the same argument personally
Eminem said the exact same thing
"I came up in a time where you had to be so different from the next person or you were labelled trash . Now a shift happened where if it doesn't sound like everything else its labelled trash by many people "
They're not saying copy cats didn't exist they saying that they were not given a pass . You couldn't be a jay clone or a cheap outkast and make it big you would have been laughed at
Ohhhh so that's why Recovery is Eminem's most beloved album!
(It is not)
@@Gothstana?? Tf does that have to do with it
@@Gothstana Come again sir ?
Hate to break it to you but em is literally Ian. Both aren’t doing anything relatively new. You mix an alright rapper + white, you got the best marketable product to the general population. The issue is, middle America hates admit shit like this bc, to admit it means race finds play apart in selling products
@@brandwind3545Calling Eminem an alright rapper who's level is That of Ian is next level of dedicated hâte
Discounting Tyler’s opinion -a rap industry veteran- alone is an insane thing to do, but to act like he’s not right about Ian is even wilder. He’s just a gimmick rapper, nothing original and you can tell he’s not in it for the love of hip hop. dudes a vulture, nothing more
appeal to authority fallacy
@@Sayiiidhaha you’ll find this comment section is a hive mind. Don’t fight the mob 😂 Tyler said so and he’s popular so he’s right!
So what?
He's making money and doing what he loves
Isn't that what every other black meme musicians do?
Is it cuz he's whiet that's an issue?
I thought Tyler was always about doin what you love and ignoring the haters. But now he's just s hater himself.
Tyler pushing 40 and its showing
@@Sayiiid That's not what an appeal to authority is. For an appeal to authority fallacy to be valid, you would need to take a person's status and then use their status as a reason why they're right in an UNRELATED way. Like saying a doctor is right about something to do with the law, because he's a doctor. It wouldn't be a fallacy to say a doctor is right about something when it relates to their field, even though technically they could be. They would be wrong, but it wouldn't be an appeal to authority fallacy.
Tyler is a rapper. When he talks about rap, he might be wrong, but it's not an appeal to authority fallacy.
@@Noooiiiissseee Talking just to talk, do you do that often? Tyler is a rapper, not a rap analyst social commentary guru, he's not spending his life trying to be professor skye or Fantano.
Someone on twitter said how post Malone dropped the whole black culture fit, Ian will do the same
Rap is just black dress up for men
Anyone who disagrees is an idiot
No
@@turboshazed7370 He'll be making alternative rock in a few years. Don't take my word for it, just wait and see.
@@turboshazed7370 dummy
It's the country season, even Beyonce jumped on it, but in the end, they'll back to their old form again.
From many experiences, I guess Ian might use rap fame to be a film director or indie pop artist later like Childish Gambino, Quadeca, Kevin Abstract, BLP Kosher, but my guess might be wrong, he may be just a white dude that influences by rap musics on youtube and want to be like them.
9:00 the difference is tyler was by all means sonically unique and passionate about his craft; yea he goofed around... he still does but he was able to seperate it from the art
Ian’s a minstrel show, Tyler’s right and he’s not saying half of it
Ian is like Lil Dicky if he somehow had even less charm and was even more of an industry plant
At least lil Dicky had jokes even if they were stupid Ian is the joke
Also one piece fuck ya I’m currently at Zou loving it but hoping my second Fav Sanji comes back soon
Except lil dicky is actually entertaining
@@nikguimont8546In fairness too, Lil Dicky has some quality tunes when he put effort in. Professional Rapper with Snoop is an example. It was clever and executed well…his wordplay is actually decent. He’s had impressive freestyles too. He actually is talented. Problem with him is his act got old and redundant fast. Yeah, you’re a rich Jew with a small dick, smart in school, out of place in rap. Funny and refreshing at first. Once novelty wore off, he transitioned to TV show
@@nikguimont8546if sanji is your favourite, you’re going to love the next arc whole cake
ian will never make pillow talk 🥹
This reminds me of J Cole trying to reach out to Lil Pump. Ian will be out of rotations and forgotten just like Pump is now.
At least lil pump had novel concepts in his songs I could explain like “ what if I wrote a song called Gucci gang and the lyrics are me mostly saying the name of the song “ all of Ian’s music is basically what if a awkward looking white guy raps like future but the productions bad and the album cover doesn’t match the music
@@nikguimont8546 That wasn’t novel. Lil B was doing that almost a decade before Lil Pump burst onto the scene.
sure but Lil B wasn't catchy because he was always off beat (on purpose I know) and the quality of his sound was trash lol. It was all fun and memes. Lil Pump also had that amateur sound of the time but he had catchy hooks in an era when that guaranteed a hit (2015-2017).
the difference being lil pump was actually cocky and saying his music was better than everyone elses. im confused what ian has actually done to make people hate his personality and not just dislike his music. yall are trying to drag a 19yo artists name through the mud with only 1 mixtape out instead of practicing what you preach and trying to criticize him respectfully? make it make sense
@@alexanderweyers441 im pointing out that the two situations are similar. There are differences of course mainly the appearance of the two rappers, the rapper who calls them out, and the year it takes place.
The word similar means resembling without being identical. For example, butter and margarine are interchangeable in cooking but have different properties with butter being from animal fat and margarine being plant based.
4:39 memetic
?
@@tommurphy4770 what’s up?
@@Kaimac-vz5gs why you timestamp memetic?
Don’t reply to the comments. Leave this masterpiece as it is 😂
1:26 TWO bald people on my screen? Cleanup aisle my pants‼️
Tyler discovered chords 7 years ago and has acted holier than thou ever since.. he literally WAS a meme
it was fun seeing the Ian subreddit throw a tantrum over all of this lmao
Oh god do I really want to destroy my internet history even more by searching up this stuff?
I might it sounds hilarious.
Well yeah there are all just like 14 year old meat riding losers so I would be shocked it they didn't have a big tantrum
Ian has fans?
who tf is ian im confused
@@diorsse an upcoming rapper who’s known for his songs “figure it out” and mostly “magic johnson” he mainly uses gucci mane type beats, he’s alright in my opinion but by no means a goat
As a 43 year old man it is great to see Tyler reaching “the kids are wrong” phase of his life 😂.
Not was he was saying at all but okay.
There are 2 sides of the argument that are lacking reading and listening comprehension and you're on one of them.
@@gabrielnunez7623 Precisely. Critical thinking is dead in the U.S.
it honestly feels like he talks to the artists as equals, like 'the kids will follow you, think about what you do'
maybe that's the same but i'm 21 and i see how me growing up with ians everywhere maybe i coukd also not have seen rap as a place of self-expression or powerful message
also the kind of artist he describes, idk if that's ian, but that says in the interview that they don't care about this music, they would put the final nail in the coffin like 'oh ok this is a transaction'
@@gabrielnunez7623 work on yr joke comprehension there prickly pants 😂
I don't believe the man who made "Bastard" or even "Goblin" can actually be compared to what's happening in the newer landscape of rap. Yah it was very explicit but it was never sheep mentality, which is why Tyler is Tyler. 🤧
People come at him for making music like Tamale but forget he was making songs like “Answer” right beside them, there is no comparison. Tyler has always had artistry, even his “troll” music had artistry
@@Willow-cw9te bro made "Tron Cat" , "Earthquake" and even "See You Again" my guy and people on his dxck for calling out inauthenticity. The 2020s era of hip hop and average listener is really something else. 🚶🏾♂️
I think people forget that even though Odd Future were trolls, they still showed respect and reverence for the artists that came before them in the game. And like Ant already mentioned Tyler made Yonkers as well as She, Analog, Inglorious, Treehome95, Rusty, Lone, Pilot, Okaga CA, and many other songs during his early career that showed that he has the skills to become an artist among artists. Heck, his song Odd Toddlers is a tribute DOOM
We got Tyler oldhead allegations before GTA 6
I think a major difference with early Tyler is even if he was irreverent he was taking his art seriously and was trying to make a point with his humor and edginess compared to making a meme record of trying to make a viral tik tok track to chase fame.
Ian is a flash in the pan. In 10 years he’ll be completely forgotten and irrelevant. He’s disposable.
10 is generous
Who is this?
Why the fuck do y'all genuinely hate him lmao
@@stellar1252because he fucking sucks
I feel like the focus on Tyler being "hypocritical" since he was a mega troll back in the day is pretty irrelevant considering that TYLER himself was ridiculous and over the top. As "the creator" he made music that told stories and pushed the norm which is why we all listened. The music wasn't just a copy of everything before him that he just took and ran with. He was an actual artist beyond the laughing. Not really sure how people are acting like he said something crazy.
I been saying this for a couple weeks now, just a couple days ago I relistened a mfdoom interview talking about how back then, people had to buy a record and then just listen to the music. they had almost nothing else influence them to pick a record, now there are so many factors which push people to listen to a song without any of the factors being connected to art
“In the 2000s everyone sounded so different and people weren’t just flooding the market with money chasing, hollow, copycats of each other just to make money or be popular”
Was the prevalence of endless bullshit ringtone rap just a fever dream I had as a teen? Because, like, I’d believe that
I got so mad this on twitter so much
How are people glazing this Ian dude so much over ONE ALBUM
Someone called him what Eminem did to 90s rap he’s the new version of that
Like Elvis
Also Tyler’s past is n/a
He’s mature now
At least Eminem actually gained the respect of the wider community or something
@@Noctem_pasa nem has respect for the genre
The Elvis comparison is really ironic because one of the reasons Elvis felt so refreshing to mainstream white America is because the previous decade and a half or so was dominated by cheesy pre rock and roll novelty music
I saw a lil kid say that Ian is gonna end racism 😭
Never even heard of dude until Tyler called him out
Me neither 😭
This
tyler's worst is 10x better than ian's best
FACTS
He has one album out😂😂 chill
@@laethanelvissrajda6091 listen to open hands
Idk who ian is but theyre both sht
@@laethanelvissrajda6091 ian is like half dudes age bro
I feel like Tyler shouldn’t be talked about like this, he could’ve phrased his words better, and he just got rubbed the wrong way. He’s mostly talking about the industrialization of music, and shouldn’t be called “out of touch” for his beliefs
I don’t think every project or song or even artist in general is supposed to be peak art. A lot of the stuff is just for entertainment purposes and is just fun to listen to. That goes for Ian as well as a Ken Carson or more popular people like Lil uzi. Their music isn’t supposed to be great and they don’t treat it like that it’s just fun to listen and vibe to and still has its right to exist.
im sorry but yuno miles is the biggest culprit of this. it was funny at first but damn it got old quick.
get a job joey i’m convinced mfs just hate fun
Yeah, it’s been unfunny for damn near a year now
Not really. Yuno Miles at least has a unique sound and isn’t just copying whatever style is popular to gain the algorithm (which is pretty much what Tyler is calling out Ian for doing).
The fact that people are fangirling over this guy even though his album was absolutely atrocious says a lot about the state of music
Not just that but these people are the most toxic fans I’ve ever seen
People seem to be missing that Tyler isnt even talk shit about ian, hes mainly venting his frustrations on the people who praise and give more shine to his music than actual good, talented rappers.
hating on tyler for being "hypocritical" when the albums they say are meme albums are genuinely serious
11:30 I'm sorry, I'll do better I promise. Please stop being mean
People always compare the mediocrity of anything in the present to different forms of excellency in the past. Problem is they just forget/never experienced all the garbage of the past.
Fax
Melon have u heard Kanye West’s new album: The College Dropout?
Please leave 2004 I miss you
Video starts at 3:19
thanks goat
no it starts at 0:00 silly
🐐
Whilst initially criticized Tyler for his meme rap comment 12:03 is the exact reason I retracted my statement, yeah he was serious in content but the actual product delivery…. And I think that what he means. The likes of Ian is learning and applying.
imo Tyler is right in every aspect he said
You either die a Mac Miller or live long enough to become a Joe Budden.
bruh 😂
I always love that Tyler is passionate and willing to throw his thoughts out in raw form. He’s not always right but I just appreciate his willingness to communicate and throw feelings out there to be discussed.
Tyler said there’s no art in the art anymore. You can only get upset by that if you’re one of those people using music as a profit widget rather than expression of self.
Probably esp close to Tyler, who has healed through music and we’ve been able to witness it. Flower boy was personal and sonic growth. He looks around and doesn’t see other artists getting that satisfaction or their fans.
Tyler was always serious about music, making music, loving music, the influences have carried through in his instrumentalisation across his albums even when the themes have matured
I agree with him on the meme artists. I see dozens of aspiring musicians on yt, insta, or on the streets with incredible talent and passion trying to make it, just to be overshadowed by people shitposting. A lot of it is really entertaining, but I feel as if we should reward the efforts of people doing the real innovating.
Missed opportunity to use Cal Chuchesta, Tyler's biggest fan, during the Factor ad
So Ian is the new Jack Harlow?
Diet Jack Harlow Zero
He's less Jack Harlow and more Lil Mabu.
Not a fan of Jack Harlow but comparing Ian to him is offending. Atleast he has charisma and some smooth flows occasionally
@@peterstanchev3156 fax bro must be on smth😂
@@SirAbysshe's way more cringe holy sh- 😂
i feel like this conversation is a good representation of Tek lintowe's "My tek lintowe"
"unlearn" & "Soldiers" are some of my favorite pieces of electronic music, while basically the rest of the mixtape is basically soundcloud meme rap
i think it's truly a different experience for what so many different fandom of genres want, and even aside from that tape there's plenty of "comedic" rap with insanely good production
Hearing Tyler end his comparison of rappers with “Julian from the fucking Strokes” caught me off guard 6:20
The homeowners association gotta hold a meeting for Ian bro
4:09 "He was ..."
*Yonkers beat strats playing*
I don't really like this tendency to slap the "out of touch" label on an artist when they criticize the direction their medium is headed. You can disagree with their viewpoint, but it's sort of become a way to invalidate a person's position without really making any kind of argument.
Agree especially when the artist isn’t that old
So Tyler basically just matured. He going through that thing where shit you like, or find funny or cool, when you're younger no longer something you like, or find funny or cool. Cuz he's older, and a different person now, than he was during his younger, more destructive years.
Also I do feel like he'd earned her right to be critical of music a little bit, being someone who lived through criticism and found success, while getting better as an artist.
this title sounds like: "Tyler, cmon, i'm telling you dude, The Creator isn't wrong!"
Tyler, don't tell me about memes, you’re a walking triceratops for fucks sake.
First Fantano ad read skit??
7:48 wow, clear channel, haven't thought about those chumps in like 20 years. It feels like an entirely pre-citizens united problem. It seemed like a genuine threat that control of the entire American music industry could be completely swayed by like a handful of rich people who didn't care at all about culture and would just strip music of everything but it's earning potential and essentially control what the overwhelming majority of Americans considered to be good, important music. It's possible to say it happened anyway, but back then the thriving and endless online indy music world pretty much didn't exist and artists had basically no hope of success beyond their home state without help from labels, so things turned out better than expected. Since then though we (myself included) have been thoroughly conditioned to just kind of accept that "of course, all power and wealth will end up in the hands of a parasitic few. How else would any industry ever make money?"
2:40 so its a trump interview?
Am I out of touch that I just don't know any of these popular "meme" musicians?
1:56 was he trying to bite the film off? 💀
I never believed in Ian but after all this hate he is getting i am so scared he will actually become big because this is exactly what happened to young thug , i remember when people trolled him for not saying a single thing in his songs fast forward to today he is considered a legend
The difference is that no body can rap like thugger, his music has zero substance but that is very clearly not the point.
Bro what??? Young thug was always hard asf lol, he was hated by racists and then transphobes and anti sjws when he was acting zesty and wearing dresses
They hate him because to racists any southern black dude is automatically speaking hieroglyphics for some reason and they reduce their words to mumble rap.
10:27 spot on. Take Peggy as an example. He's the most creative shit talker, and he's never taken his music or what he does that seriously, and yet his music is fire
Finally. I was beginning to worry I'd have to form my own opinion on this subject
I think Tyler is absolutely right about Ian, but one thing I also do know about newer Tyler with interviews is that he’s not exactly the best at translating his thoughts. Like how in this interview, as he goes in on Ian, which is totally valid, but he goes in on “people who don’t actually care about the music,” and goes on tangents about how there weren’t these types of artists in like 2003 or something. His kind of callback to 2000 like there were not at least a few artists somewhat similar to Ian who wanted to take advantage of their status and hip hop’s name to make bad music I think was a major part of the reason why people consider his comments “hating on the youth” kinda thing. And the thing is, the most obvious way that people might see Tyler’s kind of argument as not only hating on Ian but to people who actually do care, is that Tyler’s arguments are close to the arguments against mumble rap, how people will claim that “mumble rappers” only care about fame and money and have bad lyrics. Is Ian a culture vulture who only cares about making a quick buck? Yeah, probably. Does anything someone like Playboi Carti or Travis Scott makes completely blow Ian out of the water? Yeah! But I think the main point is that this rhetoric is mainly just flawed. As I’ve said I feel Tyler’s always has struggled to put his thoughts into words in interviews, and in this case I think for many people it feels less like Tyler’s attacking the culture vultures and more like he’s on some bs rap hater philosophy
i actually thought ian's valecdictorian was pretty good but the entire underground scene is focused on sir nettspend