Are Muni customers paying their fares? Here's detailed look at SFMTA's deep financial crisis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2023
- ABC7 News wanted to confirm what some have already suspected: Muni is losing millions because some people don't pay the fare. Here's what we uncovered. abc7ne.ws/3WVQ78C
Like Bart, Muni needs to massively improve its riders' safety and have a strict "no ticket, no ride" policy even for the homeless.
But isn't the motto of the bay area "there's no property with fighting over"?
Who is going to enforce the policy? Think it through.
Why do u care
sucka calls himself a thief then cryies about people riding the bus for free,
@@houchi69 It should be enforced, just like the laws. If there is ZERO enforcement of fares, that would likely lead to ZERO enforcement of laws, which would devolve into TOTAL chaos, and SF is partially there right now thanks to it's feckless and corrupt "leaders", who all identify as progressive Democrats. These so-called progressives are left-wing extremists and are as dangerous as the MAGA Republicans within the right-wing. Both groups are extremists. Apparently, common sense is dwindling.
If you decriminalize shoplifting, then why would you expect people to pay for anything else??
Exactly
Sounds like Socialism is working!!
@Jeepus Chrysler what point were you making?? Bringing up hobby lobby just enforces that stealing is bad.
@Jeepus Chrysler what does colonialism have to with crime in different parts of the world?? Because war crimes happen, I'm not allowed to complain about my car being stolen?? It sounds like you're just deflecting.
@Jeepus Chrysler alright. *cracks knuckles*
Lets play your game. Oppressed muslims in china shouldn't complain because Osama Bin Laden Lol, and oppressed women in Jordan, Lol!!
Three quarters of the riders don't pay. Yet management won't acknowledge it. Replace management.
Management wants muni to have muni be tax payer funded. They get the money and don't have less jobs to do like ticket enforcement
@@gregorymorales1 : All public transit is subsidized by the taxes. What country are you from?
Why would people pay when their is no consequence to not paying. Eventually people get tired of "doing the right thing" when they see many others just getting it freely.
That's an excuse that somebody with no integrity or self respect would say. Always blame not doing the right thing on somebody else. If that attitude keeps up there won't be any public transportation left for them. If all your friends decided to rob a bank I guess you might as well go with them, right? Same process of thought. Glad you were raised with morals.
@@Unknown_Ooh I sleep fine every night. ✌️
@@Lucky-gk7ez You are a dirtbag.
@@Unknown_Ooh u need a hobby. Mind ur own business. If u wana pay then pay. If u dont then dont worry about others and what they do their risking a 150$ ticket for a free ride and u can do the same. But why get mad at other peoples choices
Guess I’m a goody goody. I always paid and was thankful I didn’t need to drive. CA seems to be full of people who think they are entitled to free stuff.
Everything is free in California, as long as it’s under $950.
I believe enforcement of fares would drastically reduce crime on Muni and Bart.
Yes it indeed would. Free public transit would ironically destroy it. Despite all the virtue signals, do we really want to let all the homeless on there all day just to chill and smoke crack? Also if you think something should be "free" which is not only shifting the cost onto others, but shows you think public transit isn't something of value worth spending your own money on.
Sure, but who is going to enforce it? Think it through.
I paid the other day at nine in the evening, and I felt like a complete idiot, because even the old white people that got on the train with me didn’t pay. I literally didn’t see anyone pay other than myself from the ballpark all the way to Embarcadero station.
Many POCs are taking their reparations in $3 installments
QUESTION YOU VOTE DEMOCRAT???
What do you think happens when there’s zero enforcement?
Well, you see, the magical crystal/lizard/unicorn hippie magic should prevent anything bad from happening. It hasn't been working very well lately, but the Board of Supervisors is still hopeful that it will eventually work if they want it hard enough.
I don't often ride Mini, (previous BART rider here) but the one time I rode a Muni-bus about 2 years ago, I'd estimate 50% didn't pay. And it was very disappointing that I saw people who could obviously afford to pay, not do it.
I think Muni should advertise on the bus saying, lack of paying for a ride will lead to less service. Then reduce service for a month, with advertisements at the bus service saying why. What a month or two, bring the service back to the normal level and see if more people pay.
I travel all over the country and the world, but live in the Bay Area and must say I've really lost a lot of respect for the Bay Area in the past 3 years.
I ride Muni daily and less than half of the riders pays. A year ago it was more than half. So it’s getting worse.
I ride muni everyday, unlike many I don't stare at my phone to pass the time, I count the number of fare jumpers for amusement. IMO during the day I would say some 60% don't pay, at night that number goes to 90%. I have a monthly muni pass and I ask myself sometimes why bother to pay if no one else does. Then I snap back to reality. Muni needs to crack down, and crack down hard, days and nights. Even if the labor costs exceed the fare gains the system needs to be restored to where people know that they must pay for their ride. That rant aside, I would be in favor of making all muni travel free of charge for everyone all the time.
U need a hobby. Ur life sounds miserable. Go apply at muni and make a difference since u have nothing better to do but count people who pay go drive a bus and argue with people.
You pay because you can afford it and it's the right thing to do. You do your part.
You should stop paying. Do your part to crash the system. Our politicians have zero sense of civic pride or duty. They will only act when everything is burning down.
do you ask them if they have the lifeline fast pass that doesn't need to scan? or just assume they are fare jumpers because you didn't see them scan anything?
@@roblox21242 No. They still need to use the pass so the system knows how many people are riding.
If no one else is doing the right and lawful thing, why should I? And there goes society down the toilet.
Watching the news out of SF is like looking at a different universe. It’s like looking at a place where rules and common sense don’t apply.
Lol, the media just likes to sensationalize. In reality SF is pretty tame. SF has a rough neighborhood - the Tenderloin. And the adjacent neighborhoods, including the bougie touristy shopping district, are indeed suffering from the Tenderloin craziness. But the rest of the city is actually pretty great.
Just stay away from the Tenderloin. The rest of the city is gorgeous.
@@TohaBgood2 thanks for the info but that’s really not what I’m talking about. Every city has a bad part of town. I guess what blows me away is the things the people say and the words they use. It’s so crazy that it feels like the people are from another universe
@@darylb5564 Maybe it sounds like you aren't used to how people operate in a place different to your own?
@@kaicandoit I’ve lived in a lot of different places and I worked in an environment with very different people from different places. The people in SF kinda feel like they were dropped here from another universe where people have no grasp of the obvious… if that makes sense. I don’t know if that makes sense. Try this. Notice when they say something that’s obvious they have this look like they’ve just invented the wheel.
It's not "crowd behavior" it's "mob behavior"
It is embarrassing that a locally based news channel doesn't have anybody involved with this story that has enough first and second hand experience with Muni ridership to recognize that the most frequent riders have the most financial & convenience motivation to get a monthly pass, and that monthly pass doesn't require that the legitimate passholder tap in and tap out. And, those frequent riders would likely be disproportionately represented if you were to take a "random" sampling of the passengers who are boarding and disembarking. I.e., if there are 1,000,000 unique individuals who ride Muni in a given calendar year, that includes people like me (I usually pay with the Muni smartphone app) who rarely ride Muni, so I am probably not in your sample; but also includes people who have a monthly pass and commute and run their daily living errands by taking Muni. By virtue of frequent usage, those passholders will likely be significantly represented in your sample.
^THIS! Before the pkg even started, just from listening to the lead-in, I knew the report was going to focus on riders who weren't tagging in/out. Lyanne Melendez should have known better!
You assume that they all have monthly passes and you're a complete moron. It disgusts me how stupid you are and blind. Enjoy SF. I am so happy to be leaving the bay area and not having to deal with you people who don't want to accept the reality when it is standing right in your face. So happy to not be beholden to you idiotic neo feudalists anymore LOL
I bet if they hired 100 fare inspectors, they would make their money back 100 times.
The degree of stupidity by transit bureaucrats is alarming. They have no interest in fixing fare evasion, rather, they have their hands out for relief funds and want to further penalize car drivers. San Francisco was a nightmare 20 years ago for parking.
How would you fix it Karen
That stupidity are amongst all those who you can vote for lol... why can other countries do it when the country with the biggest GDP can't.
@@SteveinSanFrancisco If you ride. You pay. Its not a Karen thing to say you should pay for the services you recieve.
@@SteveinSanFrancisco Since when caring about your community is being a Karen? I though the Karens were the ones who tried to use our braindead cops as a weapon to kill or maim black people.
When did y'all unilaterally change the definition? I didn't get that memo, Ken.
@@kronosaurelius the free loaders you gotta worry about is the homeless.
crowd behavior is when everyone start to go to stores and just grab what they need without paying.
How about just paying fare
Why would I pay when I can ride for free and buy a ticket with my phone if a fare inspector shows up? The mobile app has to be among the dumbest fare collection ideas ever. The app is the ultimate fare evasion tool.
Since there is no cellular reception underground in the Muni Metro system, you cannot purchase a ticket with your smart phone when a fare inspector shows up. As for above ground, the mobile app probably time stamps when the ticket was purchased and when it is used, so the inspector can tell if you've just purchased a ticket when he showed up.
you can't claim the mobile phone app ticket if the inspectors board. It has to be tapped, and if you try to do that with the inspectors on board they'll see it and fine you anyway.
In NYC they have fare inspectors that will randomly board busses and check for compliance. Violators get hefty fines. They need to ramp up enforcement so people don't think it's so easy to get "free" rides.
Are people that live in sf that oblivious to what's going on around them? I visited SF and within a few trips on Muni knew most people do NOT pay.
Why tf should the state subsidize local transit management's incompetence? 🤬
I always pay because I’m not a poor dirtbag person. I ride the muni to experience what the other half of the people live.
Low income elderly over 65 yrs old can ride Muni Free. They shouldn't be counted. And yes, fare evaders (who can afford paying) are a problem. But this report fails to explain how Muni is a huge money pit, that continues to waste millions. SF residents voted in 1999 to merge the parking meter maids with SF Muni (creates SFMTA), so parking fines can fund Muni, effective in 2002. In 2009, Taxi regulation was added to SFMTA. All parking/traffic citations and taxi revenue goes to SFMTA, and still that is not enough funding.
Residents are pissed because they feel nickeled and dimed by everything in the city. And at the same time they see people, flagrantly, shoplifting, and breaking laws without any consequence. It’s like if there are kids in the class who are blatantly, cheating all the time and getting away with it, it causes people to not respect rules overall.
And then you have to go to detention because some other kid cheated. That's what it feels like. Meters are already insanely priced these days. I avoid downtown as much as I can because of the smash and grabs and the parking fees.
I worked at Muni for 15 months and was shocked to learn that most people who utilize Muni don’t pay to ride.
Pretty much identical to when I used to commute regularly on the Geary or Fulton buses. I would use my clipper card while the vast majority of folk just waltzed on by or at best waved an empty hand at the reader. Even during the occasional random Muni official inspection of disembarking passengers in downtown, those who paid would stop, have our cards scanned and given a thumbs up while the non-paying passengers just pushed through and either hurled abuse, mumbled threats and simply ignored the otherwise powerless Muni inspectors.
Lifeline holders or monthly passes don't need to tag on buses lol (Muni gates are different)
From one death spiral to another death spiral. Seems CA has an issue with just enforcing laws...
muni operators used to check fares but not only the occasional fare inspector checks fares
If the bus driver demands the fare, threaten to file a complaint. Enforcing the fare is against the rules for drivers. Supervisors will review the tapes and the driver will get written up.
Yep. True statement
I had a driver stop thebus to demand fare and after 3 minutes i started yelling at him... its not his job, it the transit officers job!!
I pay my fare. I used my muni app. The is so convenient. I don’t have to tap the machine. There should be fare inspector to check fare.
Lol, garbage reporting. I use the muni mobile app on my phone -- no tagging done. Monthly pass holders also don't have to tag.
I also thought half the people don’t pay but the times the fare inspectors come on board, they will pull off 1-3 people but the vast majority of people have paid by the clipper card most likely as a monthly pass so it is unfair to call people fare cheats without proof. Also people 18 and under have free fares on Muni and don’t pay and low income seniors also are eligible for free Muni passes. Now go to the Bart station and watch the high jumps over the gates
People are just scum. It's just sad, why would fare inspectors risk their lives.
Public transportation should be a public service, not a profit seeking venture.
I see people jumping the Bart gate everyday right in front of the Bart window. Nobody cares.
1. Free Muni and all public transportation. (like in Luxemburg)
2. Higher Parking Fee (Stop people from using their private cars)
3. Congestion Charge (London, Paris, Stockholm)
and use those funds to expand Muni and BART
Yeah, that can’t work here……….
My personal policy for getting on any kind of transport is: "See the reader, touch the reader".
If you don’t make enough money to live in San Francisco, you have to cut corners! When you have people riding the Muni, they don’t have cars! We just go about our day to make a living with what little pay check we make. So do we pay Muni, or do we pay our rent? Muni needs to be Free in the City Limits!
No, even on the underground, people walk through the gate in front of Muni booth, with the attendant in the booth. Why bother paying for clipper card when the drivers never seem to care?
It's the same down here in L.A. When I'm in San Francisco I'm using my Clipper Card. Maybe I'm chicken, but I don't want to be part of the 1% (if even that) who could be caught without paying and then I'll end up leaving S.F. with a big fine. Acutally, the last time I was in San Francisco earlier this year I did take BART from SFO to Powell Street Station. I've taken it before but I got confused how to exit with a large piece of luggage that I wanted to take the elevator. I managed to exit without scanning out. The trip was never deducted from my balance. On the way back to the airport it was the same thing, except I entered BART without scanning in. I couldn't scan out and the BART people manually deducted the fare and let me out. What I think happened is there is a Clipper terminal next to the elevator door. It's easy to miss. Stuff like that is also a reason why BART and MUNI lose revenue.
Some people use the MUNI app to pay for their fares and don’t need to tap getting on
People aren't paying their rent and not paying to register their cars. A lot of people aren't paying for things they take from stores. If you need some quick cash just cut a catalytic converter off of a Prius. Gosh, eliminating consequences for breaking our community rules is utopian heaven on earth.
Tumlin was sold as a savior when he was hired. The guy has been an absolute disaster. Please make everyone that enters the bus have to tag the reader whether they have discounts or not. Only then will it be obvious who is not paying. Don't even get me started on that creep Weiner, who is another disaster.
I don't think that Tumlin is the problem here. He knows that there are certain things that he can't say or the Board of Supervisors will fire him. He's playing by the rules, but I hear he's still sneakily trying to make moves to improve things behind the scenes.
Either way, he's probably already looking for a better position. Our city government is just too big of a mess for normal people.
Lifeline pass holder don't need to tag tho; all they need is a valid sticker
That's what I am saying too lol I wasn't a lifeline pass holder, a regular monthly payment instead 2016-2021. You don't need to tag lol " Lady at 4:39 hints at it.
Go for all access pass u are welcome 😂
@@raulingaverage They never sold enough of those passes for even 10% of the ridership. It's physically impossible for 2/3 of 3/4 of the riders to have those passes. At the very least, more than 50% are simply stealing their fare and should be prosecuted accordingly.
Yes, I have that. This is simply a bad report, assuming all of them are fare jumpers. We don't know if they have the lifeline or not. I would be mad if she caught me going into the bus and then telling everyone on national tv that I'm a fare jumper, I would file a defamation. I have been using Lifeline before pandemic, never need to scan anything only show my card when fare inspector shows up or when I board in the front door. I certainly don't owe the passengers anything. i saw many angry people here policing and saying they watch who scan their clipper, it's crazy how much time people spend worrying about other people's actions.
Make it free but raise the city tax.
So accurate, thanks for reporting this. And it really feel like MUNI is delirious about this issue.
I see folks jumping the gates all the time. One time the fare checkers stopped this big black dude and tried to give him a citation, and he just walked off and they were scared to try and stop him.
fare inspectors cannot legally detain you. Thats why sometimes you see fare inspectors with some police around
Paying a monthly pass ahead of the month just to have the bus be hella late or no show at all at a certain time and cannot get a refund for late and no show is BS too
Get a moped or kick scooter.
WOW! I'm not paying. Now that I have seen this.😂
You are not going to pay because you simply don't want to pay.
They said more people are riding, but almost half are fare skippers. Would they ride if they were forced to pay? But their solution isn't to find a way to make the riders pay; instead, it's to force the people who aren't using the service to pay the thieves' share (street parking, downtown drivers, the rest of the state, etc.). This twisted logic is another reason why the once beautiful city has become a shitehole.
I'm frequently the ONLY person paying fare. No, they DIDN'T pay another way. It seems unfair and now I'll pay higher parking fees to subsidize fare evaders
"We need the state to help out" of course, shift the cost burden onto someone else.
We generate a disproportional amount of GDP. Why should we subsidize empty highways out in the middle of nowhere instead of building more infrastructure that generates more GDP?
@@TohaBgood2 highways in the middle of nowhere transport your goods that you buy. No one is saying we shouldn't put more money in public transit, but those who use it should pay for the service they get.... kinda like those who use the roads pay for it through vehicle registration fees and gas taxes.
@@bubba6989 Then there should be a toll for those trucks and cars who actually use those highways. And those tolls need to cover the entire cost of construction, maintenance, and operation of that highway - exactly like a business. That's exactly what you all are claiming would be "good" for transit. So why shouldn't we use that model for your sacred cow highways?
The tolls will be incorporated into the cost of goods instead of our taxes, but the cost will stay exactly the same. The only difference being that people will pay only for whatever they use. None of this highway socialism!
Why not?
@@TohaBgood2 I mean if you want to do a toll you can, but its not the most efficient way, thats what gasoline taxes and registration fees are for. A toll would require a lot more logistics and man power, being counterproductive for the your "business model" fallacy. You're argument is based on the assumption that people don't pay for the roads they use, but the more you drive, the more taxes you pay for the roads.
Like I said, no one is saying we shouldn't have more public transit, but if you recieve a service you should pay for it. Progressives have this stupid idea that everything is "owed" to them and everyone has to be their sugar daddies. If public transit is something you value, then you should be willing to pay for it, and if thats too much to ask, then you really don't value it.
You just said the quiet part out loud in San Francisco, unbelievable. Even if by conservative estimates 40% of riders don't pay as the bus drivers said, then that essentially is your $118 million dollar hole. But no, make drivers pay and businesses suffer with extended meters, then the drivers stop coming to SF and the businesses fail.
Asking for more funding?! While the top executives making more than your average citizen...
The women at the end hit the nail on the head. Keep eliminating parking spots and raising meters and extending meter hours, and eventually, people will avoid coming into the city. Just keep nickle and dimming us all, and watch us stay home, and more businesses collapse because we don't want to pay $15 to park to go out to dinner. Valencia St restaurants for example will suffer from this.
All joking aside, you shouldn't try to drive into a dense city and expect there to magically be limitless parking. The parking is limited. If it's kept free then you'll never get a space. if they charge market rate for it then it will be insanely expensive. Parking costs a ton of money to build and maintain. It's perpetually subsidized.
@@TohaBgood2 I dont totally disagree with you about driving in a dense city but many who drive will just patronize businesses on the peninsula or east bay and that will result in fewer businesses in SF... that scenario doesnt benefit car-free urban residents. This isnt the strong SF of 5 years ago that could push the envelope with no downsides. Failed policies in SF have already driven many major stores out of SF.
@@jonw999999 Study after study has been done on this. The suburban residents, even the ones who technically live in SF, steer clear of locations in "the City." (I mean the dense parts.) People who live in dense neighborhoods, even if they live in say Oakland or Berkeley, are more likely to go to SF for brunch than to Uber to a suburban location in their relative vicinity.
My point is that very few patrons of SF businesses live on the Peninsula. The vast majority of the patrons are SF locals or from transit dependent neighborhoods in nearby towns. It's pointless for the city to try to be something that it is not. It makes no business sense. The tiny percentages of patrons who cannot get anywhere without driving do not make them a significant enough amount of money. It's pointless to try to cater to them.
Some people have low income cards
The city is falling apart.
Yes. Charge those don’t ride the bus for those that do.
Well everyone is going to have no reason going downtown anymore due to what’s going on with Retail stores right now. GOD HELP US?
BART is the same . Can you please stand the GATE .
The city refuses to prosecute massive retail theft and robberies, but your $3 bus fair is the issue? Please cry harder, London Breed. You did this.
NYC transit is having the very same fare evasion problem
Take more from the honest people, ignore the dishonest people. So motivational!
they could punish fare evaders with public floggings. They could even sell tickets to the events, raising further revenue.
I used to pay for all transportation I take because the companies I've worked for gave out Vouchers. NOW I will honestly say I pay when I could, I don't when I cannot. I am sort of the problem of the Financial Crisis happening.
So it sound like the real problem is paying Muni workers way too much money and benefits
Fares never made a large portion of the budget. This is quite misleading.
Surely a 30$ an hour cop could write 10 100$ tickets an hour for fare evasion?
Close the back of the bus and use smaller buses
@MexicanBatman be real the AC transit culture is totally different most of the drivers are OG gangster and combative they will kick yo a&& and will get away with it because that type of response is tolerated amongst the bosses and the public. I've seen some passengers get their azz kicked by the drivers for being disrespectful
Social norm is scary
Stop charging more for parking, it's freaking expensive as it is.
Non-payment of fares speaks volumes about just what is the integrity of the people riding Muni and living in SF.
Same going on in NYC.
At least they addressing the issue by forcing people to pay in front of the bus and back door close and getting new faregates
I take bus and pay fare but i see people, more than half, never pay. Why is my tax money
paying these free loaders. Their clothes don’t seem they are struggling for money.
Raise BART fares to pay for MUNI fares. Raise Muni to bay for BART fares!
Also use those fares to help lower bay bridge fares.
Please explain the economic rationale for taxing public transit to subsidize cars in an urban area. From everything I can see, the externalities present seem to be the exact opposite...
I am sick of seeing people not paying. I will just be driving.
Muni could do one simple thing- stop the all-door boarding. People who dare evade go through the back doors, and they don’t wanna pay. Limit all the fares to the front door. That way the fare evasion can stop a lot
SFmta is screwing over car drivers for there own gain. They deserve everything they get.
That sfmta executive clearly doesn't ride the bus.
The only time when people have to pay is when they go into the metro stations
People don't pay, no more Muni.
Fare compliance on Santa Clara County VTA is pretty solid. I was surprised to see exactly what this story reported when I spent time in San Francisco recently. I don’t buy MUNI’s explanation that any significant number of people are using the app for payment. In fact, having an app rather than a Clipper card has probably contributed to the no pay mindset.
Once you start letting people on for free, people will just get used to it..
No they won't. Muni will run out of money and cut 60% of their routes again like they did during the pandemic.
Gotta love SF. Don’t collect from the people refusing to pay for bus rides, just turn the screws on other people who are already paying taxes and parking fees.
I used to be a big Scott Weiner fan. I can't stand the guy now. He's turned into "Mr. Anything Goes."
In the early 00s if you did not have the full fare SamTrans would not let you ride and ask you to get off
That's Sam Trans. No transfers receipts and cleaner neighborhoods.
Watching this news report, it seems like it's just poor shaming. Public transportation should be free, especially in one of the most expensive cities in the country. It also seems like this report on public transportation is about one corporation standing up for another corporation, and not the people!
Directors, Managers, Supervisors, and employees don’t live in SF. Why do SF residents get penalized? Why bicycle riders don’t pay for anything.
I haven’t seen fare police for months.
Jeffrey Tumlin lmao what a joke
I don't think seniors should be having to pay. Most are on fixed income or unemployeed, but they also dont need to travel, so fork over the cash grandma.
Just make it free like we do with roads and highways
Why do they not pay? No accountability. People really shocked or don't really know why they don't pay? How did these people learn addition and subtraction in school? Wait its California they probably just let them graduate. Smh
The Muni should be sued not collecting million of fares!!
Maybe Muni should install some device that will activate and only allow patrons who pay the fee to ride the bus.
Crime, people are afraid to even ride at night. The city modestly a mess
I would say most do not pay. Have seen transit officers 1 x week when I ride. But you also have to remember people over 62 ride free?
What about enforcing the fares: no pay, no ride! That's how it is in Texas!