A lot of these reasons happen to be how Salamence gets its small niche in DPP Ubers! It has the clear Speed advantage over Rayquaza but lacks Rayquaza’s massive SpA stat, a bit of its Attack, and its spectacular movepool. But not only are those differences enough to give Salamence a small niche in the tier, but it also means that you can just run Rayquaza and Salamence on the same team since even just checking Rayquaza defensively can be a major challenge, let alone checking a second, weaker, faster one with Intimidate.
@@dalebarrs297 possible buffs: buff it’s stats 80 across the board except Atk and speed just does NOT cut it, as well it’s only stats >80 (Atk and speed) are at a middling 100. If flygon was bulkier, it can definitely get away with the middling speed but the attack, 100 in gen 9 is not good for offense.
Flygon has a ton of tools to theoretically succeed it's really just let down by it's stats nowadays. 100 base attack was already relatively mediocre back then and nowadays it really doesn't cut it, 100 speed is sorta good but you're still outsped by almost every actually viable offensive threat, and the Glalie defensive statspread isn't enough to tank hits and comfortably set up. But I mean hey a pokemon with stats like that being top tier in NU and viable in RU is pretty impressive for today's standards, once the nigh inevitable mega Flygon comes along in Legends ZaZa this thing is gonna be taking names.
@@EggscellentTree Yep, I remember in Oras for instance, garchomp was decent in OU while flygon languished in ru... but had a nice niche in ubers for being an awesome check to primal-groudon, a feat garchomp could only dream of.
I’ve been using Tsareena a lot lately to counter Gambit and other priority mons. It gets access to rapid spin and knock off to remove hazards and handle ghost types switching in. Due to its natural bulk, it can survive and even be a decent assault vest user. It gets access to low kick for Gambit and triple axel for Dragonite. Queenly Majesty + low kick for tera normal set.
Tsareena is very interesting! I'm not sure if it's viable or not, Tera definitely hurts. Answering Gambit (as long as it doesn't have Tera) is nice though!
I came from your viability rankings vid with Jim, and I am glad I did because your content is good. For a high ladder player you are actually still explaining everything in a way that's useful for (I reckon) almost any level, even beginners. As a good random battler but non teambuilder (so far) I can easily follow your reasoning and explanations.
One must take in mind that very few pokemon don't have anything over the pokemon that outclasses them. If the specific tools they have that their "upgrade" doesn't have are worth it in a team over being overall better at their job, you take them. Just don't force them into a team or reverse engineer a team specifically for them to be on because that usually doesn't work out.
Well-put! I agree with the remark about reverse engineering, I've tried it many times to justify outclassed pokemon and I ended up with a lot of OK teams and even some good teams, but never GREAT teams.
@pinkacross2042 yeah in most cases that actually work people tend to be just looking for a way to deal with a specific threat or fulfill a specific necessary niche in a team and then they see some shit like Jumpluff on the builder and have an epiphany lol
@InsertFunnyThingHeremy favorite experience in pokemon. Picking Noivern to drop dracos on latios back in gen 6 is a high ill be chasing for the rest of my life
Really good video, although I think Ribombee and Araquanid would’ve made a better thumbnail since Ribombee is currently flipping burgers and bagging fries in RU rn for a really good reason, while Araquanid is asserting its dominance as the best bug type in OU like the GOAT he is
Glad you enjoyed the video! I stand by the thumbnail choice though, Flygon and Garchomp are far more popular and recognizable than Araquanid and Ribombee. Gotta consider the mass appeal
Weavile was SUPER outclassed by Chien Pao in every way. Offensive stats, defensive stats, typing, move pool, ability. I don’t think there was a single thing Weavile could do better
i think the only real ups weavile has rn is knock off And unless my math is wrong, banded weavile triple axel hits harder than banded chien pao icicle crash assume all hits land probably still outclassed overall but it’s something at least
Something I love about your content is that finishing the video is only part of the experience; you can get many more insights from just reading comments!
It helps that Landorus actually got a good buff alongside the nerfs, that being Taunt. Turns out being able to outrun defensive Pokemon and stop them from healing or statusing it or creating hazards can actually help fill in some of the holes left by the nerfs
On the subject of using outclassed pokemon for the surprise factor i would also like to add that it's important that you position yourself such/make sure/are confident that you get value out of your surprise pick/set when you reveal it.
Yse. I think, Choise specs 252+ attack Furrete is unexpected for opponent, but it probably just deal 40% HP damage to Ting Lu by Ice beam and die by first EQ
The earliest example of this I can remember is when DPP Salamence eventually received outrage and was banned, some Ubers players decided that two Rayquazas was better than one
I made a video essay on this exact topic too about Pokemon's overlap issues. It's a big reason why I am studying the good game design of Yo-Kai Watch. That game's battle system makes it so far more monsters are mechanically different and incredibly specialized so there are far more unique monsters throughout the roster.
@pinkacross2042 I've uploaded a ton of my own video essays on that game dissecting all its content and game design. I hope my videos are good enough to help you learn about what a fantastic monster collector it is!
When you said "Don't believe it when people say something is outclassed" I thought you were gonna flex with you making Alomamola mainstream, but you instead reached for an example where you were wrong. Very humble.
Honestly, that wasn't done intentionally, that was moreso because nothing outclasses Alomomola. It's the best wishpasser ever, most would agree on this. Alomomola was underrated perhaps, but not outclassed.
this video is good advice and a really good PSA for people to innovate and try different things and learn more about different pokemon and what roles they can perform on a team.
Flygon is just such a sad case. Bro needs a full rework, honestly. Like at LEAST give him higher speed and tinted lens as a hidden ability. Or give him sand stream since it’s said it summons sandstorms. Just ANYTHING that makes it usable, PLEASE.
The saddest part is that it really doesn't have a single "great" stat, its speed is good, its bulk is good, its attack is okay and its special attack is passable at best. It has a lot of tools, but really, it's never the best at anything it does because of its lackluster stats (which aren't bad in any single area..... but they are also not particularly good anywhere, he's a discount Mythical if anything). Giving him a good secondary ability definitely would also be appreciated. It's sad because Flygon has so many great tools that many mons would kill for : access to both Rocks, Defog, U-Turn, STAB Earthquake, First Impression, Fire Blast, STAB Draco Meteor and Outrage and Dragon Dance (at least at its movepool peak in Gen 8 I don't know if it retained all of these in Gen 9) plus a great fantastic defensive typing augmented by Levitate. It has so many tools to be used on a team, he's just never the best option in any particular role
I don't Hydreigon is really outclassed by anything, it just kinda struggles with OU in general. Nasty Plot sets don't really have any equivalent nor do the Scarf sets. I'd only say the Specs set is outclassed by Specs Dragapult.
Hi Pinkacross. Great Video and great content again. However I have to say Salamence as a dragon dancer has a few advantages over Dragonite. It has moxie and more speed which means it can snowball better in some situations depending on the opponent. In gen 7 OU, I found Salamence's speed more useful as after a DD I outspeed mega alakazam at +1 and swept a psychic terrain team. Even with adamant it outspeed timid mega alakazam and Dragonite could not even outspeed mega alakazam at +1 with jolly and I lost to mega zam with Dragonite but won with Salamence. Salamence if it gets moxie is more dangerous than Dragonite if the positioning is good. Also in gen 9 OU, Salamence has flying stab in dual wingbeat. Of course I don't mean Salamence is better as Dragonite is better as a dragon dancer due to multiscale and priority extreme speed and ice spinner but just pointing out Salamences perks.
Glad you enjoyed the video! Salamence definitely does have some advantages, especially in Gen 7. The examples I was discussing in the video were SV OU. It's outclassed imo, but not by much, which is why I used it as an example for the species clause section.
First of all, awesome video! Stuff like this is why I appreciate competitive, even if I only play Random Battles myself. Flygon is an awesome mon, and since it has Levitate, it was enough to give it small niches in earlier metagames, but it's really hard to overcome the 100 attack and speed. Honestly even just like 10-20 more attack, 100 total special attack or a decent hidden ability, (Sand Rush? Sand Force?Tinted Lens?) would make it infinitely more viable. Imagine the Levitate mindgames. I really like going back to previous gens and theorizing on how I'd buff some of the underrated Pokemon :)
I mean it at least got big niches in gens 3 and 4. In gen 3 it was incredibly good because apart from Claydol it was basically the only rock resist that also ignored spikes AND sand, which is insane. There were fun CB sets too that just spammed STAB eq on double trap teams with suit tar and mag. Not so sure about gen 4, but iirc Scarf Flygon used to dominate the meta.
without watching the video: my assumption as to what you're going to say is something along the lines of evaluating the tools & traits that the pokemon has to its disposal, seeing where it falls behind, and trying to use the team to make up for the things it lacks.
Weird thing about it too is that the Special Attack freezes the opponent. Usually Zamorak is associated with fire, as his signature spell is a fire attack. I know there are interesting lore reasons for this, as he was Zaros' right hand man in his army before betraying him. So maybe it's to symbolize Zammy stealing Zaros' power. I think I need to get a Hondoom now and name it Zammy/Zamorak
I'm amazed you didn't mention that chomp, sylveon and regular slowking team that hit OU #1. Those mons are outclassed by Ting lu, Primarina and G-lowking.
I wouldn't say they're outclassed-- Slowking-Kanto and Slowking-Galar have very different defensive roles. Ting-Lu and Garchomp aren't super comparable either. You may want to watch the section where I explain that Mamoswine isn't outclassed by Weavile. Outclassing isn't merely having a similar role and being easier to fit on teams.
There was a Choice Specs Torkoal set I ran a while back that was really effective at getting surprise KO's. No one expects the Torkoal to OHKO you with Eruption
Ive been running this mixed DD Salamence set: Salamence @ Heavy-Duty Boots Ability:Intimidate Evs: 252 Atk 4SpAtk 252 Sp Tera type: Dragon Naive Nature -Dual Wingbeat -Earthquake -Draco Meteor -Dragon Dance Why Mence? It has the best combination of strength and consistency for Flying STAB in OU( Tera Blast, Hurricane, Brave Bird being the primary culprits). The team isn't HO, so I wanted more long-term value and harder switch-ins than Roaring Moon. Even uninvested, Draco Meteor gives us an option to muscle past unaware walls like Dondozo, hit other Dragons for %70 and potenially kill a chipped Physical wall looking to switch in on us. +1 Mence outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame sans Deoxys-S, and he gets plenty of opportunity to get in due to a pivoting core of Glowing, Moltres, Alo, and Scizor. He threatens Ogerpon-W with an OHKO, beats Zama 1v1 thanks to Draco, Threatens to OHKO Iron Valiant once it has burned Booster Energy, Great Tusk cannot switch into it, Earthquake threatens all of the usual suspects(Ghold, Gambit, Bolt. Intimidate does a lot of work enabling our Pivoters. The team is rounded out by Great Tusk to keep Hazards clear, and EVERYONE benefits from Alo wish passing, while not falling apart when it becomes difficult for Alo to do so due to Glowking and Moltres having their own recovery.
This set is cool! I could see it breaking some non-corv stall if played well. I'd say Sub Moxie has the best sweeping potential, but this could definitely catch some people off guard.
Something I’ve BEEN doing is in Balanced Hackmons is trying to win with unused/underused mons. Trying to do whatever is fun for me. Finding out what works and what doesn’t. I have learned there’s actually some underused mons but I’m just bad at team building and playing. Pheromosa outspeeds M-Alakazam by one base stat. Right now I’m trying a weird double…tripling up on similar mons. Buzzwole, Golispod, and Doublade. VERY weird mons, also using Ferrothorn. 4 bulky mons to accomplish a weird goal of mine, trying to set up Poison for my ability Merciless on my other 2 mons but still cover bulk and damage in other areas. Idea is Merciless and Toxic Thread. Toxic Thread is a really interesting move. Poisons 100% accuracy and lowers speed.
This is unrelated to the vid, but with OST coming up, do you think you could make a vid with tips for tournament play? Like what kind of teams to bring, how to pick a counterpick team, etc? I feel like it’s a whole different story from ladder and it seems kinda scary to engage in lol
LOL literally yesterday I built a CB mamo team that also had zap and gking and I was messing around with Kommo o and Duraludon as Wellspring checks and rockers. The team was bad, but paraing opponents for a Mamo ice crash spam endgame is very fun.
Inspired by Jimothy I’ve been trying to use every “reasonable” (so like Scyther & Shelgon as they stand out from their evos but not Chansey for being lesser Blissey) Pokemon in Gen 3 OU. There are some fun, really niche options I’ve found in doing so! Some are technically outclassed but I think have interesting potential, like how Blastoise may not be as good as the OU Water-types but blends a lot of their disparate traits (Rapid Spin, Haze, Torrent, Refresh) interestingly. However, the ones that really disappoint me and haven’t been worth the hassle at all are the ones that at absolute best are worse versions of others, like Ledian Agility Passing where Ninjask Speed Boosts. And then there’s me finding out the best way to use Minun, Plusle, and Illumise is all the same (T-Wave, Encore, Sub, BP). Plusle is technically the worst for its defense lost, but altogether they are the exact same image.
Very cool! I didn't know Shelgon could do anything in Gen 3, that sounds pretty funny. Scyther is also usable in gen 8 OU, not great but really not bad, with Choice Band Dual Wingbeat sets!
@@pinkacross2042 I haven't actually used Shelgon yet tbh it's just on the list :P but hey, it's the most viable mono-Dragon, between it, Bagon, and Dratini/Dragonair, and Jim's used it so it has a set! I didn't know that about Scyther in Gen 8 but that's really cool. I do think it's got some neat techs in Gen 3 that keep it from being the worst between Flail and Baton Pass, but I would say it's overall outclassed in the former by Kingler (tho Flail itself is not a good strat), but the latter makes an interesting SD replacement for Ninjask... though ofc that little bastard is always gonna have the razza-frazzin' edge.
It’s funny how every month we have like 2-3 new teams hit top 10 ladder on regular OU. We get a lot of interesting things, so just know there’s a lot possible. I will say though, these players are very talented though. A lot has to do with knowing how to team build and understanding the meta. I’d give it 55% team building and 45% playing the game; it’s pretty close to 50% because most important thing is consistency.
My favourite videos are when you explore a potentially under utilised Pokémon and set in ou, but build it with a competitive mind set. For instance I liked that you tried indeedee but didn't fall into the trap of buildiing the whole team around Psy terrain, which majority of players would do in the team builder.
I was afraid all my favorite UU and RU mons would be outclassed but it sounds like it's more about giving them a unique moveset. I don't like giving up on a good pokemon, there must be some way however difficult it is.
Nah, fuck reality, im using a Rain team around Poliwrath as the star, I love this buffed frog(?), and honestly, is one of the most underrated sweepers in OU with Belly drum+Liquidation+Tera Water+Rain
Funny thing I actually used to use Flygon to counter Garchomp. With its levitate ability and access to dragon dance it could switch in on earthquakes, set up dragon dance, and then out speed Garchomp KOing it with a dragon stab. This before scale shot though when garchomp couldn't really increase its speed stat.
@@pinkacross2042I think it was gen 6, so I would use it more many things often alongside a fairy type using double switches and more. Often times I would switch in a fairy type after a sword dance then swap into flygon tanking the earthquake and baiting out the outrage locking it in as I switch out to my immune fairy type. The reason I use flygon was due to its rock resistance and access to defog making it useful outside of said situation as a sweeper and hazard remover.
@@NobodyDungeons Ah, I see. That makes sense I suppose. You don't lock a pokemon into Outrage if you switch into a Fairy type though, at least not in gen 7, 8, and 9. Not sure about gen 6 but probably the same.
@@pinkacross2042 ye I dont think I am too bad at competitive but I dont try to go high elo tho am not good either I think best I got was like 1458? In gen7? But then I got bored so took a break
I love your last point because I simply didn't expect it and yet Landorus at the beginning of this gen is such a great example for it. People tend to view exceptions as a mean to justify every deviation from the norm. But as you say, most likely an outclassed Pokemon really just is outclassed. And yet, with reasonably conservative expections, a second look at an outclassed Pokemon can't hurt.
I think Azumarill is pretty terrible, not a consistent breaker at all and it hates the existence of Wellspring and Bolt. Medicham can break on paper, but it's so awful defensively that I don't think you could justify using it.
Hi Pink! Happy new year! Is there a set date for the Pinkatour 3? Also I remember you saying you experimented with a Tera Electric‘Quaval recently any chance you have some videos in the pipeline regarding it?
Happy new year! Pinkatour 3 is during the usual stream time this weekend. As for Quaquaval, no, I don't plan on featuring it in any more videos, but if you want to use the team I placed it on, you can find it in my latest team fixing video.
Yes, and ill tell you why. There are times when the pokemon that outclasses the subject is simple unavailable. Perfect example, Flygon and Garchomp dont appear in the same regions, for the most part.
@pinkacross2042 Can't imagine what it's like to make a turn based rpg into an esport when it was never designed to be a competitive multiplayer game, but whatever.
God I hate it. Back when I used to play Bw ou in smogon etc everyone would say I should always use gyarados over gator -_- (although I should say I had a hard time finding a niche for him in reg H.)
Crazy crazy cope: Salamance has the tiny niche of being bulkier against physical attackers after being knocked off due to intimidate and can’t be Tera ghosted on. Check mate dragonite Stans
A lot of these reasons happen to be how Salamence gets its small niche in DPP Ubers! It has the clear Speed advantage over Rayquaza but lacks Rayquaza’s massive SpA stat, a bit of its Attack, and its spectacular movepool. But not only are those differences enough to give Salamence a small niche in the tier, but it also means that you can just run Rayquaza and Salamence on the same team since even just checking Rayquaza defensively can be a major challenge, let alone checking a second, weaker, faster one with Intimidate.
Very cool, I didn't know that was a thing! I'll pin this comment so others can see. :]
This is why i love dpp ubers
"this Pokemon is bad for my team" nerd
vs "this team is bad for my Pokemon" chad
I really hate that Flygon is a perfect example of this, but it's absolutely true. Gamefreak, please, give Flygon some love
But u-turn , levitate , dd , first impression. He has some things going for it 😢
@@dalebarrs297 possible buffs: buff it’s stats 80 across the board except Atk and speed just does NOT cut it, as well it’s only stats >80 (Atk and speed) are at a middling 100. If flygon was bulkier, it can definitely get away with the middling speed but the attack, 100 in gen 9 is not good for offense.
Flygon has SOME stuff over Garchomp, but just not nearly enough. It needs some help for sure.
Flygon has a ton of tools to theoretically succeed it's really just let down by it's stats nowadays. 100 base attack was already relatively mediocre back then and nowadays it really doesn't cut it, 100 speed is sorta good but you're still outsped by almost every actually viable offensive threat, and the Glalie defensive statspread isn't enough to tank hits and comfortably set up.
But I mean hey a pokemon with stats like that being top tier in NU and viable in RU is pretty impressive for today's standards, once the nigh inevitable mega Flygon comes along in Legends ZaZa this thing is gonna be taking names.
@@EggscellentTree Yep, I remember in Oras for instance, garchomp was decent in OU while flygon languished in ru... but had a nice niche in ubers for being an awesome check to primal-groudon, a feat garchomp could only dream of.
I’ve been using Tsareena a lot lately to counter Gambit and other priority mons. It gets access to rapid spin and knock off to remove hazards and handle ghost types switching in. Due to its natural bulk, it can survive and even be a decent assault vest user.
It gets access to low kick for Gambit and triple axel for Dragonite. Queenly Majesty + low kick for tera normal set.
Tsareena is very interesting! I'm not sure if it's viable or not, Tera definitely hurts. Answering Gambit (as long as it doesn't have Tera) is nice though!
I came from your viability rankings vid with Jim, and I am glad I did because your content is good.
For a high ladder player you are actually still explaining everything in a way that's useful for (I reckon) almost any level, even beginners. As a good random battler but non teambuilder (so far) I can easily follow your reasoning and explanations.
Welcome to the channel! :D
I'm happy to hear that you find my explanations easy to follow!
@@pinkacross2042I found you thanks to fsg
One must take in mind that very few pokemon don't have anything over the pokemon that outclasses them. If the specific tools they have that their "upgrade" doesn't have are worth it in a team over being overall better at their job, you take them.
Just don't force them into a team or reverse engineer a team specifically for them to be on because that usually doesn't work out.
Well-put! I agree with the remark about reverse engineering, I've tried it many times to justify outclassed pokemon and I ended up with a lot of OK teams and even some good teams, but never GREAT teams.
@pinkacross2042 yeah in most cases that actually work people tend to be just looking for a way to deal with a specific threat or fulfill a specific necessary niche in a team and then they see some shit like Jumpluff on the builder and have an epiphany lol
@InsertFunnyThingHeremy favorite experience in pokemon. Picking Noivern to drop dracos on latios back in gen 6 is a high ill be chasing for the rest of my life
Really good video, although I think Ribombee and Araquanid would’ve made a better thumbnail since Ribombee is currently flipping burgers and bagging fries in RU rn for a really good reason, while Araquanid is asserting its dominance as the best bug type in OU like the GOAT he is
Glad you enjoyed the video! I stand by the thumbnail choice though, Flygon and Garchomp are far more popular and recognizable than Araquanid and Ribombee. Gotta consider the mass appeal
@@pinkacross2042 ye I know lol I just like hating on Ribombee 😊
Weavile was SUPER outclassed by Chien Pao in every way. Offensive stats, defensive stats, typing, move pool, ability.
I don’t think there was a single thing Weavile could do better
especially since when chien pao was legal weavile didn’t have triple axel and knock off
Weavile got Knock Off, Chien-Pao didn't. If Pao came back to OU though, Weavile would be GONE for sure.
@@pinkacross2042 weavile didnt get knock off until chien pao was long gone from OU tho
@@TheDonOfNY Correct. I misread the comment, thought it said Weavile IS outclassed in every way, not WAS
i think the only real ups weavile has rn is knock off
And unless my math is wrong, banded weavile triple axel hits harder than banded chien pao icicle crash assume all hits land
probably still outclassed overall but it’s something at least
11:21 the custap Gholdengo with the make it rain crit made me flinch irl
Yea, I flinched as well lol. I was so excited to get up a DD into a moxie boost...
Something I love about your content is that finishing the video is only part of the experience; you can get many more insights from just reading comments!
That's great to hear! :D
It helps that Landorus actually got a good buff alongside the nerfs, that being Taunt. Turns out being able to outrun defensive Pokemon and stop them from healing or statusing it or creating hazards can actually help fill in some of the holes left by the nerfs
Very good point!
On the subject of using outclassed pokemon for the surprise factor i would also like to add that it's important that you position yourself such/make sure/are confident that you get value out of your surprise pick/set when you reveal it.
Yes, this is true.
Yse. I think, Choise specs 252+ attack Furrete is unexpected for opponent, but it probably just deal 40% HP damage to Ting Lu by Ice beam and die by first EQ
The earliest example of this I can remember is when DPP Salamence eventually received outrage and was banned, some Ubers players decided that two Rayquazas was better than one
I didn't know about that! How cool!
I made a video essay on this exact topic too about Pokemon's overlap issues. It's a big reason why I am studying the good game design of Yo-Kai Watch. That game's battle system makes it so far more monsters are mechanically different and incredibly specialized so there are far more unique monsters throughout the roster.
I'm not familiar with that game, but that sounds interesting!
@pinkacross2042 I've uploaded a ton of my own video essays on that game dissecting all its content and game design. I hope my videos are good enough to help you learn about what a fantastic monster collector it is!
When you said "Don't believe it when people say something is outclassed" I thought you were gonna flex with you making Alomamola mainstream, but you instead reached for an example where you were wrong. Very humble.
Honestly, that wasn't done intentionally, that was moreso because nothing outclasses Alomomola. It's the best wishpasser ever, most would agree on this. Alomomola was underrated perhaps, but not outclassed.
this video is good advice and a really good PSA for people to innovate and try different things and learn more about different pokemon and what roles they can perform on a team.
Flygon is just such a sad case. Bro needs a full rework, honestly. Like at LEAST give him higher speed and tinted lens as a hidden ability. Or give him sand stream since it’s said it summons sandstorms. Just ANYTHING that makes it usable, PLEASE.
Yea, it's definitely in need of buffs.
Or even making it a special attacker or strong mixed attacker would help, since it could actually run boomburst in higher tiers
The saddest part is that it really doesn't have a single "great" stat, its speed is good, its bulk is good, its attack is okay and its special attack is passable at best. It has a lot of tools, but really, it's never the best at anything it does because of its lackluster stats (which aren't bad in any single area..... but they are also not particularly good anywhere, he's a discount Mythical if anything). Giving him a good secondary ability definitely would also be appreciated.
It's sad because Flygon has so many great tools that many mons would kill for : access to both Rocks, Defog, U-Turn, STAB Earthquake, First Impression, Fire Blast, STAB Draco Meteor and Outrage and Dragon Dance (at least at its movepool peak in Gen 8 I don't know if it retained all of these in Gen 9) plus a great fantastic defensive typing augmented by Levitate. It has so many tools to be used on a team, he's just never the best option in any particular role
I ask this to myself every day and i still use Hydreigon so that's a "yes" for me
I don't Hydreigon is really outclassed by anything, it just kinda struggles with OU in general. Nasty Plot sets don't really have any equivalent nor do the Scarf sets. I'd only say the Specs set is outclassed by Specs Dragapult.
Hydreigon isn't outclassed, but it's not a great pokemon, that's for sure. NP 3 attacks is probably best.
This is one of the best parts about Draft League, outclassed Pokemon get viability via point or tier reduction
@@theburrowingsnagrets Very true! It makes draft very interesting.
Hi Pinkacross. Great Video and great content again. However I have to say Salamence as a dragon dancer has a few advantages over Dragonite. It has moxie and more speed which means it can snowball better in some situations depending on the opponent. In gen 7 OU, I found Salamence's speed more useful as after a DD I outspeed mega alakazam at +1 and swept a psychic terrain team. Even with adamant it outspeed timid mega alakazam and Dragonite could not even outspeed mega alakazam at +1 with jolly and I lost to mega zam with Dragonite but won with Salamence. Salamence if it gets moxie is more dangerous than Dragonite if the positioning is good. Also in gen 9 OU, Salamence has flying stab in dual wingbeat. Of course I don't mean Salamence is better as Dragonite is better as a dragon dancer due to multiscale and priority extreme speed and ice spinner but just pointing out Salamences perks.
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Salamence definitely does have some advantages, especially in Gen 7. The examples I was discussing in the video were SV OU. It's outclassed imo, but not by much, which is why I used it as an example for the species clause section.
It almost seemed that everyone wanted lando t to be outclassed so its reign can be over
Perhaps so LOL, personally I like Lando but I just legitimately thought it couldn't weather the loss of such important moves.
First of all, awesome video! Stuff like this is why I appreciate competitive, even if I only play Random Battles myself.
Flygon is an awesome mon, and since it has Levitate, it was enough to give it small niches in earlier metagames, but it's really hard to overcome the 100 attack and speed. Honestly even just like 10-20 more attack, 100 total special attack or a decent hidden ability, (Sand Rush? Sand Force?Tinted Lens?) would make it infinitely more viable. Imagine the Levitate mindgames. I really like going back to previous gens and theorizing on how I'd buff some of the underrated Pokemon :)
It also learned U Turn, making it pivot.
Flygon does some stuff better than Garchomp. Levitate is a fantastic ability. Still, Flygon definitely needs some buffs to be usable.
I mean it at least got big niches in gens 3 and 4. In gen 3 it was incredibly good because apart from Claydol it was basically the only rock resist that also ignored spikes AND sand, which is insane. There were fun CB sets too that just spammed STAB eq on double trap teams with suit tar and mag. Not so sure about gen 4, but iirc Scarf Flygon used to dominate the meta.
@DragapultRules OMG thanks! This is what I meant and I couldn't quite remember!
without watching the video: my assumption as to what you're going to say is something along the lines of evaluating the tools & traits that the pokemon has to its disposal, seeing where it falls behind, and trying to use the team to make up for the things it lacks.
Not really! I'm glad the video surprised you. :]
Fun fact, player at 4:28 is a RuneScape player, as Zamorak Godsword is an item there
Weird thing about it too is that the Special Attack freezes the opponent. Usually Zamorak is associated with fire, as his signature spell is a fire attack. I know there are interesting lore reasons for this, as he was Zaros' right hand man in his army before betraying him. So maybe it's to symbolize Zammy stealing Zaros' power.
I think I need to get a Hondoom now and name it Zammy/Zamorak
@@TurntOddish Bro is lore expanding
I'm amazed you didn't mention that chomp, sylveon and regular slowking team that hit OU #1. Those mons are outclassed by Ting lu, Primarina and G-lowking.
I wouldn't say they're outclassed-- Slowking-Kanto and Slowking-Galar have very different defensive roles. Ting-Lu and Garchomp aren't super comparable either. You may want to watch the section where I explain that Mamoswine isn't outclassed by Weavile. Outclassing isn't merely having a similar role and being easier to fit on teams.
There was a Choice Specs Torkoal set I ran a while back that was really effective at getting surprise KO's. No one expects the Torkoal to OHKO you with Eruption
Yea, Specs Torkoal (especially on TR) is very cheese but quite funny
Don't use outclassed pokemon, unless it's landorus , who is never outclassed
Ive been running this mixed DD Salamence set:
Salamence @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability:Intimidate
Evs: 252 Atk 4SpAtk 252 Sp
Tera type: Dragon
Naive Nature
-Dual Wingbeat
-Earthquake
-Draco Meteor
-Dragon Dance
Why Mence? It has the best combination of strength and consistency for Flying STAB in OU( Tera Blast, Hurricane, Brave Bird being the primary culprits). The team isn't HO, so I wanted more long-term value and harder switch-ins than Roaring Moon. Even uninvested, Draco Meteor gives us an option to muscle past unaware walls like Dondozo, hit other Dragons for %70 and potenially kill a chipped Physical wall looking to switch in on us.
+1 Mence outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame sans Deoxys-S, and he gets plenty of opportunity to get in due to a pivoting core of Glowing, Moltres, Alo, and Scizor. He threatens Ogerpon-W with an OHKO, beats Zama 1v1 thanks to Draco, Threatens to OHKO Iron Valiant once it has burned Booster Energy, Great Tusk cannot switch into it, Earthquake threatens all of the usual suspects(Ghold, Gambit, Bolt. Intimidate does a lot of work enabling our Pivoters. The team is rounded out by Great Tusk to keep Hazards clear, and EVERYONE benefits from Alo wish passing, while not falling apart when it becomes difficult for Alo to do so due to Glowking and Moltres having their own recovery.
This set is cool! I could see it breaking some non-corv stall if played well. I'd say Sub Moxie has the best sweeping potential, but this could definitely catch some people off guard.
I'm so proud of myself. I was using a tera electric SD haxorus a couple months ago as a stall breaker 😂😂
It does break stall very well. Everything else though... not so good.
Something I’ve BEEN doing is in Balanced Hackmons is trying to win with unused/underused mons. Trying to do whatever is fun for me. Finding out what works and what doesn’t.
I have learned there’s actually some underused mons but I’m just bad at team building and playing.
Pheromosa outspeeds M-Alakazam by one base stat.
Right now I’m trying a weird double…tripling up on similar mons. Buzzwole, Golispod, and Doublade. VERY weird mons, also using Ferrothorn. 4 bulky mons to accomplish a weird goal of mine, trying to set up Poison for my ability Merciless on my other 2 mons but still cover bulk and damage in other areas.
Idea is Merciless and Toxic Thread. Toxic Thread is a really interesting move. Poisons 100% accuracy and lowers speed.
11:21 this shit is highway robbery
Yea that one hurt
This is unrelated to the vid, but with OST coming up, do you think you could make a vid with tips for tournament play? Like what kind of teams to bring, how to pick a counterpick team, etc? I feel like it’s a whole different story from ladder and it seems kinda scary to engage in lol
Yes, that's a good idea! I'll write it down.
LOL literally yesterday I built a CB mamo team that also had zap and gking and I was messing around with Kommo o and Duraludon as Wellspring checks and rockers. The team was bad, but paraing opponents for a Mamo ice crash spam endgame is very fun.
@@DragapultRules Mamo is such a cool mon. I'd advise against Kommo-O though, SO weak to Play Rough and doesn't even take Ivy Cudgel that well.
@@pinkacross2042 Yeah I ended up switching it for a Dura since it is way more bulky and can spread even more para for Mamo.
12:47 is that Electivire?
'Tis indeed. It performed as expected.
If they do something different yea. Salamance nigh always outclasses dragonite on paper but not if you want a good sub puncher
I hate flygon for no reason and garchomp existing makes me so happy
That is a very odd take. Fair enough I guess lol
So is it safe to say that R.Bolt is outclassed by the GOD, Bellibolt, but we should still use him?
No, because we shouldn't use Raging Bolt at all
Bellibolt sweep
Nah, only use Bellibolt.
(Don't actually, I'm kidding, Raging Bolt is very good and generally much better than Bellibolt).
@ bbbbbut Parabolic Charge, Electromorphosis!!
Inspired by Jimothy I’ve been trying to use every “reasonable” (so like Scyther & Shelgon as they stand out from their evos but not Chansey for being lesser Blissey) Pokemon in Gen 3 OU. There are some fun, really niche options I’ve found in doing so! Some are technically outclassed but I think have interesting potential, like how Blastoise may not be as good as the OU Water-types but blends a lot of their disparate traits (Rapid Spin, Haze, Torrent, Refresh) interestingly. However, the ones that really disappoint me and haven’t been worth the hassle at all are the ones that at absolute best are worse versions of others, like Ledian Agility Passing where Ninjask Speed Boosts.
And then there’s me finding out the best way to use Minun, Plusle, and Illumise is all the same (T-Wave, Encore, Sub, BP). Plusle is technically the worst for its defense lost, but altogether they are the exact same image.
Very cool! I didn't know Shelgon could do anything in Gen 3, that sounds pretty funny. Scyther is also usable in gen 8 OU, not great but really not bad, with Choice Band Dual Wingbeat sets!
@@pinkacross2042 I haven't actually used Shelgon yet tbh it's just on the list :P but hey, it's the most viable mono-Dragon, between it, Bagon, and Dratini/Dragonair, and Jim's used it so it has a set! I didn't know that about Scyther in Gen 8 but that's really cool. I do think it's got some neat techs in Gen 3 that keep it from being the worst between Flail and Baton Pass, but I would say it's overall outclassed in the former by Kingler (tho Flail itself is not a good strat), but the latter makes an interesting SD replacement for Ninjask... though ofc that little bastard is always gonna have the razza-frazzin' edge.
It’s funny how every month we have like 2-3 new teams hit top 10 ladder on regular OU. We get a lot of interesting things, so just know there’s a lot possible.
I will say though, these players are very talented though.
A lot has to do with knowing how to team build and understanding the meta. I’d give it 55% team building and 45% playing the game; it’s pretty close to 50% because most important thing is consistency.
We have a LOT more than 2-3 new teams hit top 10 on ladder every month. I'd guess its closer to 50-200. Few of those are RMTd though.
How would you rank Heracross our favorite bug?
Outclassed by Ursaluna and Conkeldurr. :/
@@pinkacross2042 That's quite unfortunate:( I try to use him in all my teams on showdown. My favorite mon.
@@LordOfWaffles32 It might be viable at some point! Thanks to limited dex, it's a possibility!
My favourite videos are when you explore a potentially under utilised Pokémon and set in ou, but build it with a competitive mind set. For instance I liked that you tried indeedee but didn't fall into the trap of buildiing the whole team around Psy terrain, which majority of players would do in the team builder.
Glad you enjoyed that! I stream and try to do just that every weekend at 11:30 AM ET! :D
What do you think is the most purely outclassed pokemon in a role (excluding evolutions)? Chien-Pao over Weavile?
Yea that sounds about right. Crown is a much better AV user than Jirachi as well.
Poor flygon that boy cannot catch a god dang break 😢
I was afraid all my favorite UU and RU mons would be outclassed but it sounds like it's more about giving them a unique moveset. I don't like giving up on a good pokemon, there must be some way however difficult it is.
Most UU and RU mons have the potential for OU viability, I'd say. Not often, but in some cases.
Nah, fuck reality, im using a Rain team around Poliwrath as the star, I love this buffed frog(?), and honestly, is one of the most underrated sweepers in OU with Belly drum+Liquidation+Tera Water+Rain
Funny thing I actually used to use Flygon to counter Garchomp. With its levitate ability and access to dragon dance it could switch in on earthquakes, set up dragon dance, and then out speed Garchomp KOing it with a dragon stab. This before scale shot though when garchomp couldn't really increase its speed stat.
Could Garchomp not just outspeed your Flygon before DD and OHKO it? I don't see how a slower dragon is countering a faster Dragon.
I used a berry to halve the dragon damage. Once ddance was set up little in the meta could handle it and it out sped almost everything.
@@pinkacross2042I think it was gen 6, so I would use it more many things often alongside a fairy type using double switches and more. Often times I would switch in a fairy type after a sword dance then swap into flygon tanking the earthquake and baiting out the outrage locking it in as I switch out to my immune fairy type. The reason I use flygon was due to its rock resistance and access to defog making it useful outside of said situation as a sweeper and hazard remover.
@@NobodyDungeons Ah, I see. That makes sense I suppose. You don't lock a pokemon into Outrage if you switch into a Fairy type though, at least not in gen 7, 8, and 9. Not sure about gen 6 but probably the same.
Hell yeah I love Flygon🔥
Me too. Shame what power creep did to our boy
Ain’t no way Blud brought out the “species clause”
It's a real reason to use outclassed pokemon!
I’m outclassed irl😢
No you're not, you have a niche (Somewhere)
That may be so, but there's time to improve and grow! Become the person you want to be.
I feel like that too sometimes
You cant stop me from using furret or articuno
Fair enough lol
@@pinkacross2042 ye
I dont think I am too bad at competitive but I dont try to go high elo tho am not good either
I think best I got was like 1458? In gen7?
But then I got bored so took a break
@@lorekeeper685 Fair enough. If it's not fun, no reason to play!
@@pinkacross2042 ye I prefer the more bs formats like ffa lol
I love your last point because I simply didn't expect it and yet Landorus at the beginning of this gen is such a great example for it.
People tend to view exceptions as a mean to justify every deviation from the norm. But as you say, most likely an outclassed Pokemon really just is outclassed.
And yet, with reasonably conservative expections, a second look at an outclassed Pokemon can't hurt.
Who knows what hidden threats lurk right now...?
Hi Pink!
What your opinion on a Using Medicham/Azumarill as a ‘breaker?
I think Azumarill is pretty terrible, not a consistent breaker at all and it hates the existence of Wellspring and Bolt. Medicham can break on paper, but it's so awful defensively that I don't think you could justify using it.
@@pinkacross2042 a pity, I guess the only great Pure/Huge power user is M.Mawile, No?
@@themister.s-1styes and mega medicham
Hi Pink!
Happy new year!
Is there a set date for the Pinkatour 3?
Also I remember you saying you experimented with a Tera Electric‘Quaval recently any chance you have some videos in the pipeline regarding it?
Happy new year! Pinkatour 3 is during the usual stream time this weekend. As for Quaquaval, no, I don't plan on featuring it in any more videos, but if you want to use the team I placed it on, you can find it in my latest team fixing video.
instructions unclear - I used choice band alcremie and lost the game
LOL
Unfortunately pokemon like Beheeyem will still never be used because they are WAY too outclassed
Yea, there are a LOT of pokemon that are better than Beheeyem at everything it can do, sadly.
Well, at least Flygon has U-Turn 😭😭😭
Yea, and Dragon Dance... for all the good it does it.
Yes, and ill tell you why. There are times when the pokemon that outclasses the subject is simple unavailable. Perfect example, Flygon and Garchomp dont appear in the same regions, for the most part.
Thus far, Garchomp has been available in all generations since its release.
@@pinkacross2042 Can't get one in Black/White, no?
@@josephbulkin9222 You can. Not in-game without Pokemon Home, but its available in the competitive scene, which this video is about.
@pinkacross2042 Can't imagine what it's like to make a turn based rpg into an esport when it was never designed to be a competitive multiplayer game, but whatever.
@@josephbulkin9222 What did you think this video was about...?
God I hate it. Back when I used to play Bw ou in smogon etc everyone would say I should always use gyarados over gator -_- (although I should say I had a hard time finding a niche for him in reg H.)
Feraligatr... yea that's a tough one to justify.
2:25 Imagine get outclased by a pokemon of a preview generation than him 🤡
RIP Mence
Crazy crazy cope: Salamance has the tiny niche of being bulkier against physical attackers after being knocked off due to intimidate and can’t be Tera ghosted on. Check mate dragonite Stans
I mean, it still CAN be Tera ghosted on, just doesn't get Extreme Speed...
The answer is yes 😎
'Tis indeed.