The park rangers advise against the harness... your response to them, should be to follow their own advice, and their friends and family are welcome to follow that advice, but you make the decision for yourself.
Great video and topic, Doug. I was up there that day when Grace sadly died. The storm(s) rolled in fast and hard, returned to beautiful blue skies, and returned again to thunder, lightning, and hail all very quickly. The days before and after were in the 90°s and approaching 100° down on the valley floor. That's the Sierras. We have to respect the mountains and assume the risks. Keep up the quality content.
Yeah I see a lot of comments from armchair weatherman acting like they would have known better. Ridiculous. The Sierra don't give you days or even hours of notice. Thank you!
I agree that the government should not be regulating more than they are, one way or another. Safety and information is important but what applies to one person may not need to apply for another. This past June, my 7 and 9 year old (son and daughter) and I drew permits and did Half Dome. It was incredible. They crushed every part of it and never complained once. My kids are both super athletic and had no issue with any of the hike or cables other than a couple "Dang, we're really high up dad!" moments. We did not use any safety equipment other than gloves and had zero issues. As your video stated, there can be issues that arise from both equipment or freaking out due to lack of equipment. We experienced both from others. On our way up, a woman freaked out who was clipped in. She sat down about half way up with her feet on the stanchions and blocked the entire trail, threatening to kick anyone who got near her. It took about 15 minutes for her to move, all while we were stuck below (and above) her with nowhere to go. She would try and stand up but would be afraid to get to her clips. She finally got help but she was a total liability to everyone around her even though she was clipped in. On the way down, a woman who had no safety harness freaked out and essentially did the same thing. Sat down and froze. Her boyfriend helped her eventually stand up but both situations put a lot of people in physically difficult spots (i.e. being stuck holding on to the cables in between stanchions with or without gear sucks no matter how strong your grip/gloves are). I had a great discussion with my kids afterwards about the different people we saw. Some were very prepared, others had no idea what they were doing. This includes not having any water, not knowing your safety gear, not knowing how to use your safety gear, being physically out of shape, not having food etc. There are so many variables to take into account on a hike like this that people often underestimate what it will take to complete it. Ive seen people literally do half dome in sandals with a gallon water jug and other people with so much gear/pack that they look like theyre doing the full JMT. What I will say is that safety gear should not give you a false sense of security. As the ranger, and you pointed out in the video, if you cannot do it without the safety gear, you probably shouldn't be doing it. While I obviously believe that you should be allowed to use safety gear if you choose, the point is taken. I am an ocean lifeguard and I cannot tell you how many people who I have had to rescue who cannot swim, but because they're wearing a life jacket, feel like they can swim. A life jacket is not a bad thing, but it doesn't take the place of you knowing how to keep yourself afloat. Its when we have a false sense of security, regardless of what we are wearing, that we endanger ourselves and others. What is difficult for one person, may not be difficult at all for another. My kids both did the cables without any issue. Other people really struggled. My advice for anyone doing half dome is be in shape, be prepared with food and especially water (filter too!), and know whatever equipment you are planning on using from your shoes up. You are responsible for your own success. Don't be a liability to others by being unprepared and out of shape.
@@BackcountryPilgrim That was a great comment. You know there is a way to pin that comment to the top of the comments for this video? I would recommend this... great video, BTW.
I did half dome without safety gear. It was very scary but I am glad I did it. The main safety risk in my opinion is your level of fitness. Mine was not good at the time and in retrospect was my biggest risk.
One other thing, which I mentioned in my comment on Hiking Guy's recent video on the same subject - it would help if everyone would adopt a single style of climbing: arm over arm on one cable, always facing Up, for both ascent and descent. Arm over arm on one cable is so much more secure than holding one cable in each hand and it's actually easier - at least in my opinion! I got that advice from the ranger who was checking permits the last time I went up and it made a huge difference.
As a European, I don't find the Half Dome safe enough considering how many people go there every day. We are used to a different standat from the Alps and there are almost no entrance fees or permits in the Alps. The park rangers' arguments are complete bullshit. Personally, I'm afraid of heights and no amount of safety equipment will convince me to climb ferrata or Half Dome. And if they're bothered by the slowdown, they can reduce the number of permits or they can make two ferratas ways up and two down. Park raises more than enough money to be able to improve the cable route.
Climbed half dome yesterday with a via Ferrata system. I was not afraid of heights along the climb. I found peace of mind with the Via Ferrata system especially on the descent where some poles were spaced out further than others or if a plank was missing between the poles.
I’m a rock climber. The easiest and fastest would be to use a Via Feratta setup, but only use one of the carabiners. Just move it when you get to a pole. You’re not going to slip when you’re standing at a pole. People going up use the right cable, people coming down use the other cable.
Nice! Single carabiners is what I've seen the most but usually on static slings. I don't think it's usually going to be a problem for a slip and slide but the dynamic VF is definitely the best. :)
The idea that somehow clipping in is slow is laughable. For the most part, the climb is slow as molasses as is evident by many youtube videos. They and other climbers claim it's dangerous but yet have zero statistics to support it. On the other hand, there have been 9 deaths for people not using harnesses. 9 vs 0! Now please tell me how the harness is so much more dangerous?
@@vangmountain Agreed. As long as all the people using a strap and carabiner aren't clogging up the flow or distracting others. I'd say it's much safer to use one. I climbed this last October, and it does get a bit.... cluster fork, when there are several people going at different speeds and different directions all in one spot.
You wouldn't catch me up there without a harness on and leash available. As you point out, the tackle itself is part of what makes climbing feel secure. I'm sure it's fine most days without a leash. But when the weather changes, clipping a leash could have prevented this tragedy.
@@BackcountryPilgrim I'm not an expert, but I think the best situation would probably be to provide a continuous length of cable for more or less the entire length of the cabled section that a fall arrestor can be attached to. When moving at normal speeds they really don't slow things down at all, but the moment you fall, they grip the cable and prevent the person from falling to their doom or taking other people with them. It still permits more or less the same experience you get now, but greatly reduces the risk of such mishaps. Given the low fatality rate, I don't see any particular reason to tell people they have to use it, as you're taking about a fraction of a fraction of a percent of people falling to their deaths. I've been on riskier climbs. That being said, the status quo mostly works now, the big issue being if the rocks get wet or people are rushing. The death toll on that stretch of trail is lower than one of the hikes near me where people have a tendency to slip into the creek and be carried over the falls. It seems like just about every year there is at least one person killed in such a manner.
Thanks for sharing an informed opinion and giving a balanced approach. Your opinion, because you have experience on this trail, is greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work.
Have done it twice. First time as a day hike in the mid 90s. Second time was day 2 of a jmt through hike last year. Both times I used gloves. Last year I had 2 people just in front of me using via ferrata sets. They were slower but not unusually slow. If I ever do it again, I will use the via ferrata gear. Rangers don’t always give sound advice. ( For example The ranger who issued my permit in the wilderness office told me to keep my bear container near my tent so I could intervene if a bear started to mess with it. No dude,that is not a bright idea.) So, the idea that you shouldn’t do half dome cables if you need the via ferrata gear because you shouldn’t go there if you have a fear of heights is bs. Most folks with a fear of heights probably won’t reach subdome. Those that do will likely turn around before getting on the cables. I have a healthy respect for natural heights and a fear of man-made heights. That healthy respect tells me better safe than sorry, especially with the potential rapid change in weather conditions like Grace and her Dad encountered. I don’t think they should be required.
Sounds like you've had two great climbs! I first encountered the ranger advice in some sparky comments on my original HD video and couldn't believe how naive people were for taking it as authoritative. Some guy with an associates degree in . . . anything . . . puts on a big hat and now he understands human psychology and physics lol!
Went yesterday, after the sub dome climb I was spent. Had pain in my right ankle and my left calf was killing me. I was not 100% on my capabilities after the sub dome climb but after being up there for three hours and got some rest, I thought I was ready to go however, my party already went and they wanted to head down so I didn’t do the cables. So I’ll get in better shape and hopefully don’t have the injuries, I’ll shoot for next year when I’m more prepared. I’m not ashamed just a little bummed but better to be safe than sorry.
Thanks Doug for this well reasoned and clearly communicated work. I've been up Half Dome a few times, never using equipment, other than gloves but if I ever do it again, I'll probably get a proper Via Ferrata rig. I was shopping online the other day, just to see what's out there these days and I was pleased to see that the variety of solutions broadly available (e.g. on Amazon, not going to a specialty climbing retailer) has greatly increased in the past few years. One thing I noticed, and which made me wonder, is the ready availability of safety harness systems made for roofers. These are functionally almost identical to a true Via Ferrata system, but a fraction of the cost. I'd like to find a scholarly comparison of the actual safety features of these systems compared to those designed and marketed specifically to climbers. I haven't found that resource yet, but maybe it's out there somewhere!
I've wanted to climb Half Dome for about 20 years now, but have always been leary about the safety. I would never do it unless I wore a climbing harness. In thinking it through, I realized that I'd be safely secured to the cables via the harness/quickdraw setup, but I also realized I could be a danger to other climbers. If I were to slip, fall and start sliding down the dome, the caribiner attached to the cable would start knocking off the hands of people just behind me on the same segment of cable till the next anchor post. That would be an even worse situation. If anything, everyone should be required to wear a harness. I still hope to make it to Half Dome someday. I LOVE YOSEMITE!!
If you fall into someone it's going to be bad either way but that is a good consideration. Again I think the problem is HD has been turned into a sun par via ferrata which people do not know how to use properly - for example you shouldn't double up between anchors.
You are likely to become a danger to more people if you fall and aren’t on safety gear because you’re not likely to stop falling without the safety gear, so have a greater chance of colliding with more people. People who are dismissive of this safety gear probably have an unrealistic belief in their skill. They seem to think that just because they haven’t slipped yet, they’re not going to slip ever.
@@BackcountryPilgrim Redesign the system, so that there is a cable (no anchor, all the way up) only for harness, which can auto locked if move fast, like the one in your car.
I've done HD 4 times, most recently a week ago. This is the first time I used a harness, but as a 48 year old, carrying at 10 pound backpack, my arms were starting to get tired. I wasn't clipped in (had a harness, sling, carabiner setup) but would be able to rest my arms when I needed to by clipping in. I definitely agree that if everyone used a via ferrata set, it would totally impact the length of time someone without a harness would have to wait, and would make it far more unsafe for them. Best approach, IMO, is to have the sling/carabiner ready in case someone has a panic attack in front of you, stopping the line for who knows how long, and you can just clip in and wait. But we didn't use it most of the time.
I climbed it as a teenager and hardly noticed it. For some reason, now that i'm mid 60s, I have more fear of heights but I probably could still do it. I've seen a guy suggest using a Via Ferrata harness but only using one carabiner. Yes, it does leave you briefly exposed, but you have the wood to stand on and a brief grab and click, so still very safe, but it is much faster to do one than two.
I deliver sailboats offshore and use a double clip harness when at the helm when the wind gets above a certain velocity and night watch all the time. Also, an auto inflate PFD with a man overboard alarm that alerts the sleeping crew of trouble topside. It's technology to be used.
I hiked it many years ago when I was a teenager. Supposed to go next year with my son, his girlfriend and friends. I would feel better if they used the safety gear and will probably do that. My take on this issue is yes, the gear is good insurance against falling to your death and to add to that, it will stop people from falling, rolling downhill and mowing other people down. I have seen the mob of people on the cables. One person falls above the crowd and you now become a bowling pin. No thanks. When it comes to my son and everyone else, taking a risk with their lives is never worth it.
@@BackcountryPilgrim thanks, we sure will. By the way, we don’t want to come up during the crowded season. That I hear is June through August. I was thinking of September but now saw a post showing it was snowing on the Tioga Pass at the East Gate from Hwy 395. Is it normally snowing in September? Is it better to come in April/May? We want to camp and fish including hiking the waterfalls and Half Dome. What is best?
I've never heard of September snow or at least it causing an issue. It's still summer here lol! Fall in Yosemite is beautiful but the big waterfalls are usually gone. Spring is the best for water but snow isn't often gone yet. Every season has its good and bad. :) You can see the trends here: www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/seasonal.htm
@@BackcountryPilgrim thanks for the info. I looked back at the post I saw about the snow in the Tioga Pass. It was actually snowing and the Pass was closed on 9/18/24. Probably not much but still snow. I saw the post on Instagram by The National Park News
@markcamou3477 Oh gotcha. Usually I hear "closure" language regarding Tioga referring to the road's open seasons. But yeah there was a brief but heavy fall that closed roads at Lassen briefly as well in September. Unique event! :)
Discouraging the safety gear is insane. It rooted in a macho mentality. They are essentially bragging that for a "real climber", it is an easy route. Its a ridculous reason to discourage gear.
Best commentary I've seen on the subject of Half Dome cables! I also am not a fan of the "nanny government" telling me how to conduct myself outside either. I was appalled by the ranger's ignorant comments about using safety gear on this hike. I've personally seen someone "freeze up" on the cable section. Situations like that can become bad fast for anyone close by, especially if weather is closing in! Having gear on hand can't be a bad thing even if you don't use it.
Ive done the hike 3 times i think. I called it after about 1/3rd of the way up half dome cuz i chose life lol. But i still love the hike and the first dome. But what i could never understand is why is there not one more cable?! Then youd have a rout up and a rout down. That would prevent some congestion and people freezing up.
I think in 1919 they had no idea that 1,000 people a day would go up there haha. But since then, I don't know. Maybe they're trying to maintain some semblance of nature.
In my opinion, They need to redo the cable system .And make it more user friendly and safer.By making a cable system where you can latch your climbing ring on either side.And not have to unlatch at each pole!Also fix the wooden steps and replace with something else that won't crack or wear down over time that has better grip.Also maybe make it wider so people can pass easier going up or down half dome where the cables are.
Eh, we live in a society. If someone takes a risk, such as not wearing a seatbelt, and gets in a crash, society spends resources (time, manpower, money) to attend to that person.
If they didn't ask for it, they're not to blame. Maybe society's rules need to change - stop putting our tax dollars into what people should be responsible for themselves.
@@BackcountryPilgrim I have a bit of a libertarian streak, and I get the appeal of saying that the government shouldn’t mandate that people seatbelts. (There is, of course, no sensible argument that people should not _wear_ seatbelts. If you don’t wear a seatbelt, you are a moron.) But the problem is, again, we are a society, and you can’t cut yourself off from it. What are you going to do, have a government registry of people who have opted out of seatbelt laws, and then first responders need to check that registry before responding to a crash to determine if someone should be saved? That’s extremely bleak, totally unacceptable in a civilized society, and even if it were, it’s logistically impossible anyway. If you want to respond and say, oh, well, maybe they can’t prevent first responders from _saving_ the person, but they could be denied a hospital bed and be sent home to die, thus minimizing the costs. Again, super bleak, and not something society would or should accept. But EVEN IF we somehow did, you could be orphaning children and making them wards of the state, or putting them in a position to need public assistance that they would not need if their parent were alive. Plus, you know, the time and expense of cleaning up an accident where a couple of cars hit each other and the drivers are rattled, or even hospitalized, and the cars need to be towed is much less than the same accident where a driver was ejected from the car and splattered on the highway. We can avoid this simply by having a law that mandates wearing seatbelts to maximize the odds that people wear them and avoid debilitating accidents. Plus, you know, basically all roadways, certainly in America, are public, and the price you pay for driving on government roads is following government rules. If you want to reject those laws, you can refuse to wear a seatbelt and accept the risks of getting a ticket and potentially losing your driving privileges if you get caught enough. Those risks are much less impactful than the risks you’re taking by not wearing the seatbelt.
Thank you for posting this, I really enjoyed your video! I also left the same message on HikingGuy channel: I've never done this hike, but honestly, I'm surprised the cable section is classified as a "hike". I'm an experienced technical rock/ice climber and have experience scrambling as well, and I don't think this section is a hike. I don't plan to do this hike, but if I did, I def would use Via Ferrata gear on the cablel section because I don't trust other hikers around me to have the same climbing skillsets as I do. I would be afraid of getting knocked off that section by someone above me who slipped and fell. Besides via ferrata gear, having good climbing and/or scrambling skills would help in the cable section. But I read that having gear to arrest falls would slow everyone down on the cables, and I agree, but only if folks don't learn how to use the gear properly 'before' going onto the cable section. I really think the cable section should be classified as a climb or a via ferrata.
By European standard, Half Dome is a poorly equipped _via ferrata_ To fix it either 1/ Improve the equipment and force people to use adequate gear 2/ Remove the cables, and only people with adequate training will climb to the summit 3/ Build a metallic staircase to the summit. Climbing up and down Half Dome without aids and cables is easy if you dedicated a significant portion of your life to climbing and mountaineering. Otherwise, it's not very smart.
Great video with solid points. The description of a hike is incorrect as you say- via Ferrata. Would the park attract the same amount of visitors if named this? If the park knows this name will reduce cash flow, and they do not name it the way they should, then that is a serious issue. One life gone is one too many: experts are responsible for enlightening the public where applicable. An analogy- Can you imagine a dr taking the stance that the drug choice was up to a patient? Of course, it’s up to the patient to take the medication but the dr is the authority. Much in the same way, the park has to act ethically, regardless of cash flow, and protect the climbers because it is not a hike.
There’s also the issue as to whether evacuation from the summit rather than waiting it out on the summit is the better thing to do when a storm is approaching. Lightning strikes are the primary rationale for evacuation. But it must be remembered that even under the best of circumstances, it takes a minimum of 15-20 minutes to descend the cables. Longer if LOTS of people are trying to do so. This means you are unlikely to beat the storm, and will potentially be descending on wet rock. It also means doing so while hanging onto STEEL cables which reach to the summit (which basically constitutes a HUGE lightning rod). Honestly, I would rather ride out a storm on the summit than on the cables.
@@BackcountryPilgrim if you CAN get down before the storm approaches. Otherwise, the cables themselves are a giant lightning rod. Remember that they are metal and extend to the summit.
Thanks for the info Pilgrim. I would like to hike that section some day but I don't want to be mixed up with all those people up there, so probably won't ever attempt it.
it's clearly a via feratta. if you want a harness, wear one. if not, don't. if you aren't sure, wear one. it takes only seconds to clip in and out. NPS should recommend that you wear one if you aren't experienced.
This is not a trek I would attempt, knowing my own risk assessment. That being said, having some sort of gear with you makes sense, just in case you would need it.
Everyone should be responsible for the choices they make. Doing something essentially 'unsafely' then blaming the Park that the hike is unsafe, is more than a tad hypocritical. As noted by others, the Via Ferrata set up may well be a good solution.
Yes, the park owes nothing to us in that regard. The problem is the cables are there and the implication seems to be that they make it safe. 300 tourists a day going up and down the route doesn't help with that appearance either. :/
I have done many Via Ferrats in the alps -> imo it’s less safe to use the safety kit on level A/B via ferrats. I have done plenty of C ones without clipping but wouldn’t recommend that for everyone. On half dome, if you don’t feel comfortable without the kit then you should reconsider the hike
Whiners are going to whine and complainers are going to complain...I should know because I am guilty of doing both at times. Keep sharing so we can keep learning...
Thoughtful video. My opinion as a rock climber is that they should either take the cables down or make it easier for the general population. Doubling the amount of wood rungs would make a huge difference as would making an up and down lane.
Do I understand correctly that they climbed HD at the end of a 16 mile hike? So they hurriedly descended in the rain at the end of very challenging day?
No, 16 miles is round trip. I know from others who were there that day that it was not raining until a sudden storm came in while thy were on the summit. They tried to get down but she didn't make it because she slipped - not because they were hurrying (in fact they were being slowed down by others). :(
If you get up there, what worked for me was going up a few poles at a time then stopping and looking down. I just kept making sure I was OK to come back down and it turned out fine!
You said that the cable route would be high class 3 is the cables were gone. Climbing books call it 5.5, a moderately easy technical climb. If the cables disappeared and you tried to climb directly up the old path it would be a couple grades higher because of the polished rock.
I've seen ratings all over the place and yes the additional problem of shoe-polished granite increases the difficulty. What climbing books have you seen those ratings in?
I looked through the climbing books I have and couldn't find it. I thought it must have been in the Roper guide but he had it as a difficult class 4. I did my climbing in Yosemite in the 80's, if it wasn't from books I don't know where I learned that the cable route was mid 5th class, a little easier than Snake Dike. Doug Robinson on the old Supertopo forum said that he climbed it twice and he said that it's 5.6R.
What's sad is they won't let you get a permit to sleep in the wilderness without a lecture / test from a ranger about backcountry knowledge but all you need for a Half Dome permit is money.
I get her dad may feel guilty but I have a huge issue with blame being put on Yosemite! The cables didn't appear magically right before they arrived. Yosemite, while incredible, cannot control weather. They knew the risks!! I feel bad she lost her life and I couldn't imagine witnessing my loved one go down but it's not Yosemites fault.
100% accurate. He even admitted knowing it would be dangerous due to the clouds. They weren't new to the outdoors, they knew they were taking a risk. I appreciate his suggestions for added safety but I don't get the sense that he is blaming the park. Lots of entitled people are though.
@BackcountryPilgrim Maybe I misinterpreted him wanting it to be safer as him insinuating the park did not provide a safe environment. More safety measures couldn't hurt but it's also my understanding they want to do as little as possible to preserve nature in the parks too. Clipping in could have also prevented this fall. The ability to do that already exists yet they didn't use the safety precautions that are in place currently. I guess that's why I interpreted it as placing blame and not just wanting to improve.
The thing is: people can fall and take you with them. Harness is a must with 2 carabiners so you are never exposed to a fall. Imagine driving with the belief that nobody is ever going to make a mistake....
The obvious solution to the whole problem is to double the width of the route. That would give harness users and non harness users plenty of room to maneuver.
Safety on climbs is relative. I think Grace Rohloff would be alive today if she had properly used the right gear. No, the right gear doesn't prevent you from falling on the climb, especially when the granite is slick with rain. It prevents you from falling past the next point of protection.
The problem is when a storm appears and climbers panic. What the climbers should do in a storm is sit down and clip onto a pole and wait till the storm passes. Wet granite is as slippery as ice or mud.
@@BackcountryPilgrim The stats show that when average climbers see lightning in the sky they panic and fall. The hikers can also lie flat on the rock face during a storm. Trying to climb down during a storm does not seem to prevent death.
The worst place to be in lightning is high up, exposed, on rock (or attached to steel cables sitting on rock!). I've seen zero stats that blame panic for falling. People slip when the rock gets slick (i.e., during thunderstorms). It's unsafe either way, but getting to lower elevation is the best way to escape lightning.
Saving lives on Half Dome is extremely easy. Just don't try to climb it. If one desires safety they need only to eliminate the activity that creates danger. The decision to climb anything, using any method, introduces some level of danger. For anyone to believe climbing a sheer cliff or rock face can be mafe "safe" is demonstrative of having defective intellect. The decision to make the climb is one where the individual accepts the risk or danger and willing to accept the potential for the consequences of failure. Personal experience has shown that you will never feel more alive than when the risk of losing your life is highest. Everyone gets to make their own choices. Hopefully they perform an honest self assessment during the decision making.
The wilderness, or climbing, is never 100% safe. The fact that areas are open to the public means that we think citizens can weigh the risks and benefits for themselves, not that it is guaranteed safe. Still a tragedy though, and if there are reasonable measures that could lessen the chance of a similar accident…I am for that.
Agreed. I'm fine with the occasional safety measure being put it place but the idea that the wilderness needs to be tamed to the level that any tourist can go anywhere they want is unacceptable.
There is more governmental safety placed into cars and vehicles, as well as road safety, where there are exponentially more deaths from that than from this.
Regulation of ubiquitous machines which pose a danger to large numbers of people and whose safety requires expertise to assess is a proper function of government.
Climbed half dome back in 1985. No permits, no rangers, no gloves and no safety gear. Like anything that deserves respect, the cable section definitely is not a place to be foolish. But a car is no different. How many lives would be saved in cars if we all wore crash helmets. People need to be responsible. There is some wisdom to the rangers statement that if you need safety equipment, you probably shouldn’t be climbing the dome. How many of the people that died would still be alive if they never made the climb? Like all things that carry some risk, a little common sense goes a long way…
My only issue with what the rangers are saying I'd if they tell people not to do something that would make them safer. I've followed a blood trail from a head injury off the Yosemite Falls trail and I still wouldn't wear a helmet on that hike - but if I want to, then I will. Freedom goes both ways!
I’m sure the girl that recently fell was treating it with respect. Shiit happens. I had to call 911 five weeks ago when a friend slipped on grave, on flat ground, right at Nevada falls. This was after hiking all the way from the Sentinal Dome… She broke her ankle in two places. On flat ground…. . Any safety equipment on the cables is better than nothing! But, it must be quick to use and not hinder others.
There's a time and place for many things in life. I'm much older than I want to be. I wouldn't do it now. There are too many people up there with a wide disparity of conditioning and preparedness. Place your well being and safety into the hands of the unprepared, not I. Clouds Rest is a much better choice in my opinion. ATB
Lots of valid opinions. But the fact is inexperienced people will continue to climb here. And many of these people have never had exposure like this or hardly any at all. Many of these people would still be alive if they had rudimentary safety gear. Must don safety gear. This isn't 8000 meters. Waiting 10 more minutes is better than another fatality. The park service cannot decide who should be able to climb or not. Some of these youtube videos around show how dangerous it is to be climbing with people on these cables. As I stated below, it isn't so much myself I am would be worried about. You never know who is going have a complete meltdown up there. If someone falls into you and you don't have a line you are toast. I would feel safer climbing this in the spring with cables down honestly..
I would agree that clipping in should be required on Half Dome, BUT - you would still have to UNCLIP every time you come to the vertical bar and therefore, put yourself at great risk! I hiked all the way to the Subdome and decided Half Dome was not for me. I am certain I could have done it - I"m an avid hiker. However, I felt I'd be terrified on the way down and made a wise decision to stay at the subdome and wait for my friends to go up and down the cables.
I am not in favor of anyone being required to take such safety measures - but they shouldn't be told not to either! Sounds like you made a wise choice - I have made the same myself. :) BTW, the proper gear like I suggested keeps you attached to the cables during pole transitions as well. ;)
Just like everything in this world should be, it should be a personal choice for someone to make for themselves. But Covid taught us that you have no choice on your own safety.
The number of death on the Half Dome cables is widely exaggerated. Read the study published in 2017, " *_Death on the Dome: Epidemiology of Recreational Deaths on Half Dome in Yosemite National Park_* " where in 85 year only 5 people had died on cables. Since then, there have been 3 deaths on the cables, including Ms. Rohloff this year. That would put the number at 8 people in 92 years. In the 2017 study, they stated that only one person had died by slipping. Of the other four, 3 died by lightning strikes, and one died of a heart attack. Yet apparently 12 to 15 people die in Yosemite, most from drowning. Please stoop using Ms. Rohloff's death to sensationalize your reporting and draw an un founded picture of what's really happening on Half Dome. Although I don't see an issue with using the harness. It's an individual choice.
@@BackcountryPilgrim The report was published in 2017, and while there have been 3 deaths on the cables since then, including the most recent one; the long term trends and intrinsic risks have not changed; the study is still valid in determining risk. You may want to read it. I'm sure you understand how statistic work; while three deaths may be a spike, there's no indication that it marks the begining of a new trend. A change in the trend would indicate that something intrinsic on Half Dome has changed in the last 7 years, To my knowledge, Half Dome isn't more dangerous now than it was 10 years ago. As far as the studying being out of date, you'd have to offer an explanation of how it's not longer valid in predicting fatalities on the mountain. It's a historical retrospective analysis; it's still good. News articles are unreliable; don't reject a scholarly article in favor of news reports.
@@BackcountryPilgrim And btw, drowning is the number one cause of death at our National Parks. And over 4,500 people drown in the USA every year (CDC).
@@BackcountryPilgrim All this being said, advising people to use a harness will likely save people from death or injury. Your messaging is on point for harnesses. Thank you!
Like I said, I did read the report (which specifically says, "Multimedia sources were searched for deaths"). Its useful for its purpose but this video was not about the statistical likelihood of death causes at national parks in general nor even at Half Dome. Rather, it was about the causes of deaths at Half Dome on the climb (not the entire hiking route). I have pointed out that more have died on the Mist Trail itself than on Half Dome. That is all this video was about, so the larger-scale stats are irrelevant to its point. Anyway I see you agreed on what my point was so I won't belabor it.
Enough of the barrages of these relentless Miracle Balm commercials TH-cam! You don’t have anyone else paying to show commercials? Really! Enough! Every commercial break is the same singular commercial. I’ve probably seen the first part of this over 500 times. Really great way to kill off views!
You can turn off any specific commercial you don’t want to see on TH-cam. Google it. Really easy. Content creators can’t choose commercials but subscribers can get rid of ones they don’t like.
The problem of half dome is it gives people false perception that it is easy when clearly one needs to be a pro to do it. There are videos up on TH-cam where kids are climbing it. The system is worst than that of a 3rd world country
The cables in addition to the word "park" do seem to imply there's nothing to it. Don't really need to be a pro, but tourists should get some decent experience first!
I think they should close the trail down and for 2 months and do reconstruction by adding more steps to the summit. That’s just my opinion because the steps look far apart. I wonder if this is more or less dangerous than Angels Landing
I think it's more dangerous due to height and angle whereas Angel's looks to me to be more about edge danger. Extra planks would help but there are issues either way.
You are not only a danger to yourself if you fall. I climb it cables down quite a bit and always use a harness (with prussic). Safety gear is not just about feeling less afraid
You use TWO TWIST LOCK CARABINERS. That is non-negotiable. That is the only safe way to do it. With only one carabiner, you are exposing yourself to death each time you reclip, which is about 40 times on the ascent and 40 times on the descent. A standard carabiner without any kind of locking mechanism can come unclipped with enough force. A twist lock carabiner is secure and won't come undone.
@@BackcountryPilgrim The point is, you need some decent locking mechanism. Carabiners with no locking mechanism are not safe. What locking mechanism do the carabiners the ones you showed here have?
@octaviusmigtonius2965 Sure, and a twist lock is great for climbing - but they require too much dexterity if you have gloves on or are at the wrong angle. The VF styles are also much stronger because climbing carabiner aren't meant to take impact loke the kinds generated on a VF fall. The lock on these is released by the grip.
@@BackcountryPilgrim That is true, they do require dexterity to untwist. The kind of gloves you have matters. But they are not ideal when you have to reclip every 10 ft, if there's a better option that locks securely without requiring that much dexterity to unlock.
@octaviusmigtonius2965 Yeah look into K-Type carabiners. Thays what the best VF lanyards use and you can get them separately too. The problem with the rock climbing VFs is they use gear made for rock climbing which is a completely different application.
I would use the harness. It's my life my choice and anyone who wants to criticize me will be told off.
Make sure you get a food setup and practice and it should work just fine for you!
Peace of mind in yourself, is the essence.😊
Exactly
Until someone falls into you. ;)
The park rangers advise against the harness... your response to them, should be to follow their own advice, and their friends and family are welcome to follow that advice, but you make the decision for yourself.
Great video and topic, Doug. I was up there that day when Grace sadly died. The storm(s) rolled in fast and hard, returned to beautiful blue skies, and returned again to thunder, lightning, and hail all very quickly. The days before and after were in the 90°s and approaching 100° down on the valley floor. That's the Sierras. We have to respect the mountains and assume the risks.
Keep up the quality content.
Yeah I see a lot of comments from armchair weatherman acting like they would have known better. Ridiculous. The Sierra don't give you days or even hours of notice. Thank you!
I agree that the government should not be regulating more than they are, one way or another. Safety and information is important but what applies to one person may not need to apply for another. This past June, my 7 and 9 year old (son and daughter) and I drew permits and did Half Dome. It was incredible. They crushed every part of it and never complained once. My kids are both super athletic and had no issue with any of the hike or cables other than a couple "Dang, we're really high up dad!" moments. We did not use any safety equipment other than gloves and had zero issues. As your video stated, there can be issues that arise from both equipment or freaking out due to lack of equipment. We experienced both from others. On our way up, a woman freaked out who was clipped in. She sat down about half way up with her feet on the stanchions and blocked the entire trail, threatening to kick anyone who got near her. It took about 15 minutes for her to move, all while we were stuck below (and above) her with nowhere to go. She would try and stand up but would be afraid to get to her clips. She finally got help but she was a total liability to everyone around her even though she was clipped in. On the way down, a woman who had no safety harness freaked out and essentially did the same thing. Sat down and froze. Her boyfriend helped her eventually stand up but both situations put a lot of people in physically difficult spots (i.e. being stuck holding on to the cables in between stanchions with or without gear sucks no matter how strong your grip/gloves are).
I had a great discussion with my kids afterwards about the different people we saw. Some were very prepared, others had no idea what they were doing. This includes not having any water, not knowing your safety gear, not knowing how to use your safety gear, being physically out of shape, not having food etc. There are so many variables to take into account on a hike like this that people often underestimate what it will take to complete it. Ive seen people literally do half dome in sandals with a gallon water jug and other people with so much gear/pack that they look like theyre doing the full JMT.
What I will say is that safety gear should not give you a false sense of security. As the ranger, and you pointed out in the video, if you cannot do it without the safety gear, you probably shouldn't be doing it. While I obviously believe that you should be allowed to use safety gear if you choose, the point is taken. I am an ocean lifeguard and I cannot tell you how many people who I have had to rescue who cannot swim, but because they're wearing a life jacket, feel like they can swim. A life jacket is not a bad thing, but it doesn't take the place of you knowing how to keep yourself afloat. Its when we have a false sense of security, regardless of what we are wearing, that we endanger ourselves and others. What is difficult for one person, may not be difficult at all for another. My kids both did the cables without any issue. Other people really struggled. My advice for anyone doing half dome is be in shape, be prepared with food and especially water (filter too!), and know whatever equipment you are planning on using from your shoes up. You are responsible for your own success. Don't be a liability to others by being unprepared and out of shape.
Everyone should have to read and sign this comment before they're allowed up!!!
@@BackcountryPilgrim That was a great comment. You know there is a way to pin that comment to the top of the comments for this video? I would recommend this... great video, BTW.
Absolutely brilliant, agnostic breakdown of the safety issues on Half Dome, with some unique perspectives. Particularly love the via ferrata analogy.
Thank you! ("agnostic"?) :)
@@BackcountryPilgrim You don't start with an opinion/belief and adduce data to back it up.
I did half dome without safety gear. It was very scary but I am glad I did it. The main safety risk in my opinion is your level of fitness. Mine was not good at the time and in retrospect was my biggest risk.
If the rock is dry I agree, with the cables up it's more about not running out of steam!
One other thing, which I mentioned in my comment on Hiking Guy's recent video on the same subject - it would help if everyone would adopt a single style of climbing: arm over arm on one cable, always facing Up, for both ascent and descent. Arm over arm on one cable is so much more secure than holding one cable in each hand and it's actually easier - at least in my opinion! I got that advice from the ranger who was checking permits the last time I went up and it made a huge difference.
That's funny, I much preferred holding both cables going up and down (it wasn't crowded though). :)
As a European, I don't find the Half Dome safe enough considering how many people go there every day. We are used to a different standat from the Alps and there are almost no entrance fees or permits in the Alps.
The park rangers' arguments are complete bullshit. Personally, I'm afraid of heights and no amount of safety equipment will convince me to climb ferrata or Half Dome. And if they're bothered by the slowdown, they can reduce the number of permits or they can make two ferratas ways up and two down. Park raises more than enough money to be able to improve the cable route.
I agree. I think they should make the ruite a legit via or take the cables down completely.
Climbed half dome yesterday with a via Ferrata system. I was not afraid of heights along the climb. I found peace of mind with the Via Ferrata system especially on the descent where some poles were spaced out further than others or if a plank was missing between the poles.
Congrats! Glad you enjoyed it!
I’m a rock climber.
The easiest and fastest would be to use a Via Feratta setup, but only use one of the carabiners. Just move it when you get to a pole. You’re not going to slip when you’re standing at a pole. People going up use the right cable, people coming down use the other cable.
Nice! Single carabiners is what I've seen the most but usually on static slings. I don't think it's usually going to be a problem for a slip and slide but the dynamic VF is definitely the best. :)
@@BackcountryPilgrim
I’m flying to Austria in October to climb the stairway to heaven Via Feratta… can’t wait!!!
@stevereid7140 Oh man I'm jealous! I've got two routes in CA but they're both super regulated and expensive. :/
The idea that somehow clipping in is slow is laughable. For the most part, the climb is slow as molasses as is evident by many youtube videos. They and other climbers claim it's dangerous but yet have zero statistics to support it. On the other hand, there have been 9 deaths for people not using harnesses. 9 vs 0! Now please tell me how the harness is so much more dangerous?
@@vangmountain Agreed. As long as all the people using a strap and carabiner aren't clogging up the flow or distracting others. I'd say it's much safer to use one. I climbed this last October, and it does get a bit.... cluster fork, when there are several people going at different speeds and different directions all in one spot.
You wouldn't catch me up there without a harness on and leash available.
As you point out, the tackle itself is part of what makes climbing feel secure.
I'm sure it's fine most days without a leash.
But when the weather changes, clipping a leash could have prevented this tragedy.
Thanks!
@@BackcountryPilgrim I'm not an expert, but I think the best situation would probably be to provide a continuous length of cable for more or less the entire length of the cabled section that a fall arrestor can be attached to. When moving at normal speeds they really don't slow things down at all, but the moment you fall, they grip the cable and prevent the person from falling to their doom or taking other people with them. It still permits more or less the same experience you get now, but greatly reduces the risk of such mishaps.
Given the low fatality rate, I don't see any particular reason to tell people they have to use it, as you're taking about a fraction of a fraction of a percent of people falling to their deaths. I've been on riskier climbs.
That being said, the status quo mostly works now, the big issue being if the rocks get wet or people are rushing. The death toll on that stretch of trail is lower than one of the hikes near me where people have a tendency to slip into the creek and be carried over the falls. It seems like just about every year there is at least one person killed in such a manner.
Solid perspective Doug. Good video from a guy who has hiked this. Cheers bro.
Much appreciated!
Thanks for sharing an informed opinion and giving a balanced approach. Your opinion, because you have experience on this trail, is greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work.
Thanks! It's funny to me that even my limited claims can cause a stir but that's 21st century America for you. :)
Have done it twice. First time as a day hike in the mid 90s. Second time was day 2 of a jmt through hike last year. Both times I used gloves. Last year I had 2 people just in front of me using via ferrata sets. They were slower but not unusually slow. If I ever do it again, I will use the via ferrata gear. Rangers don’t always give sound advice. ( For example The ranger who issued my permit in the wilderness office told me to keep my bear container near my tent so I could intervene if a bear started to mess with it. No dude,that is not a bright idea.) So, the idea that you shouldn’t do half dome cables if you need the via ferrata gear because you shouldn’t go there if you have a fear of heights is bs. Most folks with a fear of heights probably won’t reach subdome. Those that do will likely turn around before getting on the cables. I have a healthy respect for natural heights and a fear of man-made heights. That healthy respect tells me better safe than sorry, especially with the potential rapid change in weather conditions like Grace and her Dad encountered. I don’t think they should be required.
Sounds like you've had two great climbs! I first encountered the ranger advice in some sparky comments on my original HD video and couldn't believe how naive people were for taking it as authoritative. Some guy with an associates degree in . . . anything . . . puts on a big hat and now he understands human psychology and physics lol!
Went yesterday, after the sub dome climb I was spent. Had pain in my right ankle and my left calf was killing me. I was not 100% on my capabilities after the sub dome climb but after being up there for three hours and got some rest, I thought I was ready to go however, my party already went and they wanted to head down so I didn’t do the cables. So I’ll get in better shape and hopefully don’t have the injuries, I’ll shoot for next year when I’m more prepared. I’m not ashamed just a little bummed but better to be safe than sorry.
You 100% made the wise choice. I did something similar my last time up!
Thanks Doug for this well reasoned and clearly communicated work. I've been up Half Dome a few times, never using equipment, other than gloves but if I ever do it again, I'll probably get a proper Via Ferrata rig. I was shopping online the other day, just to see what's out there these days and I was pleased to see that the variety of solutions broadly available (e.g. on Amazon, not going to a specialty climbing retailer) has greatly increased in the past few years. One thing I noticed, and which made me wonder, is the ready availability of safety harness systems made for roofers. These are functionally almost identical to a true Via Ferrata system, but a fraction of the cost. I'd like to find a scholarly comparison of the actual safety features of these systems compared to those designed and marketed specifically to climbers. I haven't found that resource yet, but maybe it's out there somewhere!
I'd check those for a UIAA rating and be very suspicious if they are made in China. Let me know what you find out!
My left ear appreciated this video
Someone already beat you to the joke but yeah the audio got messed up and youtube doesn't have a way for me to fix it. :(
I've wanted to climb Half Dome for about 20 years now, but have always been leary about the safety. I would never do it unless I wore a climbing harness. In thinking it through, I realized that I'd be safely secured to the cables via the harness/quickdraw setup, but I also realized I could be a danger to other climbers. If I were to slip, fall and start sliding down the dome, the caribiner attached to the cable would start knocking off the hands of people just behind me on the same segment of cable till the next anchor post. That would be an even worse situation. If anything, everyone should be required to wear a harness. I still hope to make it to Half Dome someday. I LOVE YOSEMITE!!
If you fall into someone it's going to be bad either way but that is a good consideration. Again I think the problem is HD has been turned into a sun par via ferrata which people do not know how to use properly - for example you shouldn't double up between anchors.
You are likely to become a danger to more people if you fall and aren’t on safety gear because you’re not likely to stop falling without the safety gear, so have a greater chance of colliding with more people. People who are dismissive of this safety gear probably have an unrealistic belief in their skill. They seem to think that just because they haven’t slipped yet, they’re not going to slip ever.
@@BackcountryPilgrim Redesign the system, so that there is a cable (no anchor, all the way up) only for harness, which can auto locked if move fast, like the one in your car.
I've done HD 4 times, most recently a week ago. This is the first time I used a harness, but as a 48 year old, carrying at 10 pound backpack, my arms were starting to get tired. I wasn't clipped in (had a harness, sling, carabiner setup) but would be able to rest my arms when I needed to by clipping in. I definitely agree that if everyone used a via ferrata set, it would totally impact the length of time someone without a harness would have to wait, and would make it far more unsafe for them. Best approach, IMO, is to have the sling/carabiner ready in case someone has a panic attack in front of you, stopping the line for who knows how long, and you can just clip in and wait. But we didn't use it most of the time.
Using it as a backup is a good idea too. Plus if someone really got stuck it'd be sager to pass on the outside if it came to that.
I climbed it as a teenager and hardly noticed it. For some reason, now that i'm mid 60s, I have more fear of heights but I probably could still do it. I've seen a guy suggest using a Via Ferrata harness but only using one carabiner. Yes, it does leave you briefly exposed, but you have the wood to stand on and a brief grab and click, so still very safe, but it is much faster to do one than two.
Agreed, I think our minds know when our bodies aren't as strong a they used to be and warns us with fear haha!
I agree, save the second carabiners for if the weather turns south, and you have a back up when you need it.
I deliver sailboats offshore and use a double clip harness when at the helm when the wind gets above a certain velocity and night watch all the time. Also, an auto inflate PFD with a man overboard alarm that alerts the sleeping crew of trouble topside. It's technology to be used.
Nice!
I hiked it many years ago when I was a teenager. Supposed to go next year with my son, his girlfriend and friends. I would feel better if they used the safety gear and will probably do that. My take on this issue is yes, the gear is good insurance against falling to your death and to add to that, it will stop people from falling, rolling downhill and mowing other people down. I have seen the mob of people on the cables. One person falls above the crowd and you now become a bowling pin. No thanks. When it comes to my son and everyone else, taking a risk with their lives is never worth it.
100% agreed! Good hikiing!
@@BackcountryPilgrim thanks, we sure will. By the way, we don’t want to come up during the crowded season. That I hear is June through August. I was thinking of September but now saw a post showing it was snowing on the Tioga Pass at the East Gate from Hwy 395. Is it normally snowing in September? Is it better to come in April/May? We want to camp and fish including hiking the waterfalls and Half Dome. What is best?
I've never heard of September snow or at least it causing an issue. It's still summer here lol!
Fall in Yosemite is beautiful but the big waterfalls are usually gone. Spring is the best for water but snow isn't often gone yet. Every season has its good and bad. :)
You can see the trends here: www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/seasonal.htm
@@BackcountryPilgrim thanks for the info. I looked back at the post I saw about the snow in the Tioga Pass. It was actually snowing and the Pass was closed on 9/18/24. Probably not much but still snow. I saw the post on Instagram by The National Park News
@markcamou3477 Oh gotcha. Usually I hear "closure" language regarding Tioga referring to the road's open seasons. But yeah there was a brief but heavy fall that closed roads at Lassen briefly as well in September. Unique event! :)
I agree with everything in this video 100%. I was there last week, i stopped on top of Nevada and knew i was no near ready for half dome.
It'll still be there when you are!
thank you for this well informed report. I learned a lot
Glad to hear it!
Discouraging the safety gear is insane. It rooted in a macho mentality. They are essentially bragging that for a "real climber", it is an easy route. Its a ridculous reason to discourage gear.
That would be for sure.
Best commentary I've seen on the subject of Half Dome cables! I also am not a fan of the "nanny government" telling me how to conduct myself outside either. I was appalled by the ranger's ignorant comments about using safety gear on this hike. I've personally seen someone "freeze up" on the cable section. Situations like that can become bad fast for anyone close by, especially if weather is closing in! Having gear on hand can't be a bad thing even if you don't use it.
It's a unique situation with blurry lines that makes it hard to judge but I agree with you!
Ive done the hike 3 times i think. I called it after about 1/3rd of the way up half dome cuz i chose life lol. But i still love the hike and the first dome. But what i could never understand is why is there not one more cable?! Then youd have a rout up and a rout down. That would prevent some congestion and people freezing up.
I think in 1919 they had no idea that 1,000 people a day would go up there haha. But since then, I don't know. Maybe they're trying to maintain some semblance of nature.
In my opinion, They need to redo the cable system .And make it more user friendly and safer.By making a cable system where you can latch your climbing ring on either side.And not have to unlatch at each pole!Also fix the wooden steps and replace with something else that won't crack or wear down over time that has better grip.Also maybe make it wider so people can pass easier going up or down half dome where the cables are.
Eh, we live in a society. If someone takes a risk, such as not wearing a seatbelt, and gets in a crash, society spends resources (time, manpower, money) to attend to that person.
If they didn't ask for it, they're not to blame. Maybe society's rules need to change - stop putting our tax dollars into what people should be responsible for themselves.
@@BackcountryPilgrim I have a bit of a libertarian streak, and I get the appeal of saying that the government shouldn’t mandate that people seatbelts. (There is, of course, no sensible argument that people should not _wear_ seatbelts. If you don’t wear a seatbelt, you are a moron.) But the problem is, again, we are a society, and you can’t cut yourself off from it.
What are you going to do, have a government registry of people who have opted out of seatbelt laws, and then first responders need to check that registry before responding to a crash to determine if someone should be saved? That’s extremely bleak, totally unacceptable in a civilized society, and even if it were, it’s logistically impossible anyway.
If you want to respond and say, oh, well, maybe they can’t prevent first responders from _saving_ the person, but they could be denied a hospital bed and be sent home to die, thus minimizing the costs. Again, super bleak, and not something society would or should accept. But EVEN IF we somehow did, you could be orphaning children and making them wards of the state, or putting them in a position to need public assistance that they would not need if their parent were alive.
Plus, you know, the time and expense of cleaning up an accident where a couple of cars hit each other and the drivers are rattled, or even hospitalized, and the cars need to be towed is much less than the same accident where a driver was ejected from the car and splattered on the highway.
We can avoid this simply by having a law that mandates wearing seatbelts to maximize the odds that people wear them and avoid debilitating accidents.
Plus, you know, basically all roadways, certainly in America, are public, and the price you pay for driving on government roads is following government rules. If you want to reject those laws, you can refuse to wear a seatbelt and accept the risks of getting a ticket and potentially losing your driving privileges if you get caught enough. Those risks are much less impactful than the risks you’re taking by not wearing the seatbelt.
Thank you for posting this, I really enjoyed your video! I also left the same message on HikingGuy channel:
I've never done this hike, but honestly, I'm surprised the cable section is classified as a "hike". I'm an experienced technical rock/ice climber and have experience scrambling as well, and I don't think this section is a hike. I don't plan to do this hike, but if I did, I def would use Via Ferrata gear on the cablel section because I don't trust other hikers around me to have the same climbing skillsets as I do. I would be afraid of getting knocked off that section by someone above me who slipped and fell. Besides via ferrata gear, having good climbing and/or scrambling skills would help in the cable section. But I read that having gear to arrest falls would slow everyone down on the cables, and I agree, but only if folks don't learn how to use the gear properly 'before' going onto the cable section. I really think the cable section should be classified as a climb or a via ferrata.
Agreed 1000000% :) Thanks!
By European standard, Half Dome is a poorly equipped _via ferrata_ To fix it either 1/ Improve the equipment and force people to use adequate gear 2/ Remove the cables, and only people with adequate training will climb to the summit 3/ Build a metallic staircase to the summit. Climbing up and down Half Dome without aids and cables is easy if you dedicated a significant portion of your life to climbing and mountaineering. Otherwise, it's not very smart.
I like option 2 followed by 1 (minus the obligation) but never 3!
Great video with solid points. The description of a hike is incorrect as you say- via Ferrata. Would the park attract the same amount of visitors if named this? If the park knows this name will reduce cash flow, and they do not name it the way they should, then that is a serious issue. One life gone is one too many: experts are responsible for enlightening the public where applicable. An analogy-
Can you imagine a dr taking the stance that the drug choice was up to a patient? Of course, it’s up to the patient to take the medication but the dr is the authority. Much in the same way, the park has to act ethically, regardless of cash flow, and protect the climbers because it is not a hike.
Thank you. I am not sure about the analogy as it makes the government into experts and I think the opposite is the problem! :)
There’s also the issue as to whether evacuation from the summit rather than waiting it out on the summit is the better thing to do when a storm is approaching. Lightning strikes are the primary rationale for evacuation. But it must be remembered that even under the best of circumstances, it takes a minimum of 15-20 minutes to descend the cables. Longer if LOTS of people are trying to do so. This means you are unlikely to beat the storm, and will potentially be descending on wet rock. It also means doing so while hanging onto STEEL cables which reach to the summit (which basically constitutes a HUGE lightning rod). Honestly, I would rather ride out a storm on the summit than on the cables.
Height is what "draws" lightning so getting down is the best option in most cases, but when there's a good chance of a fall...tough decision!
@@BackcountryPilgrim if you CAN get down before the storm approaches. Otherwise, the cables themselves are a giant lightning rod. Remember that they are metal and extend to the summit.
Thanks for the info Pilgrim. I would like to hike that section some day but I don't want to be mixed up with all those people up there, so probably won't ever attempt it.
You could always try cables down...but that's another video. :)
it's clearly a via feratta. if you want a harness, wear one. if not, don't. if you aren't sure, wear one. it takes only seconds to clip in and out. NPS should recommend that you wear one if you aren't experienced.
Agreed!
This is not a trek I would attempt, knowing my own risk assessment. That being said, having some sort of gear with you makes sense, just in case you would need it.
I respect both sides and I think there are legitimate claims on both - and that's why I don't like demands from either one of them. :)
Everyone should be responsible for the choices they make. Doing something essentially 'unsafely' then blaming the Park that the hike is unsafe, is more than a tad hypocritical. As noted by others, the Via Ferrata set up may well be a good solution.
Yes, the park owes nothing to us in that regard. The problem is the cables are there and the implication seems to be that they make it safe. 300 tourists a day going up and down the route doesn't help with that appearance either. :/
I have done many Via Ferrats in the alps -> imo it’s less safe to use the safety kit on level A/B via ferrats. I have done plenty of C ones without clipping but wouldn’t recommend that for everyone. On half dome, if you don’t feel comfortable without the kit then you should reconsider the hike
I disagree but thank you for commenting politely!
Whiners are going to whine and complainers are going to complain...I should know because I am guilty of doing both at times. Keep sharing so we can keep learning...
True that lol!
I would bring a harness with me but I wouldn't use it unless I felt unsafe while I was doing it.
Very good!
Thoughtful video. My opinion as a rock climber is that they should either take the cables down or make it easier for the general population. Doubling the amount of wood rungs would make a huge difference as would making an up and down lane.
Good point! If they're going to make it a protected route (not saying they should!), then it would be reasonable to do a better job on it.
Do I understand correctly that they climbed HD at the end of a 16 mile hike? So they hurriedly descended in the rain at the end of very challenging day?
No, 16 miles is round trip. I know from others who were there that day that it was not raining until a sudden storm came in while thy were on the summit. They tried to get down but she didn't make it because she slipped - not because they were hurrying (in fact they were being slowed down by others). :(
@@BackcountryPilgrim Thank you for the clarification. What a terrible ordeal. 💔
It’s on my list, but still terrifies me. Only seen it from a distance.
If you get up there, what worked for me was going up a few poles at a time then stopping and looking down. I just kept making sure I was OK to come back down and it turned out fine!
You can dew eeet.
@@thathikingguy 😀
You said that the cable route would be high class 3 is the cables were gone. Climbing books call it 5.5, a moderately easy technical climb. If the cables disappeared and you tried to climb directly up the old path it would be a couple grades higher because of the polished rock.
I've seen ratings all over the place and yes the additional problem of shoe-polished granite increases the difficulty. What climbing books have you seen those ratings in?
I looked through the climbing books I have and couldn't find it. I thought it must have been in the Roper guide but he had it as a difficult class 4. I did my climbing in Yosemite in the 80's, if it wasn't from books I don't know where I learned that the cable route was mid 5th class, a little easier than Snake Dike. Doug Robinson on the old Supertopo forum said that he climbed it twice and he said that it's 5.6R.
It shouldn’t be required for harnesses but highly recommended regardless of experience. The ranger was totally wrong in what he told the group
What's sad is they won't let you get a permit to sleep in the wilderness without a lecture / test from a ranger about backcountry knowledge but all you need for a Half Dome permit is money.
Was told by permit office ranger that harness should be avoided.
Yes that is happening - sad.
Well said 👍
Thank you.
They need a second set of cables. They also need to put traction grooves on the granite- it’s way too slippery!
If it's too slippery they should take the cables off and then only people who know how to climb will try.
My left ear enjoyed this!
It wasn't in stereo? Nooooo! Sorry, I had to use a backup mic and it didn't show mono on the output. :(
I get her dad may feel guilty but I have a huge issue with blame being put on Yosemite! The cables didn't appear magically right before they arrived. Yosemite, while incredible, cannot control weather. They knew the risks!! I feel bad she lost her life and I couldn't imagine witnessing my loved one go down but it's not Yosemites fault.
100% accurate. He even admitted knowing it would be dangerous due to the clouds. They weren't new to the outdoors, they knew they were taking a risk. I appreciate his suggestions for added safety but I don't get the sense that he is blaming the park. Lots of entitled people are though.
@BackcountryPilgrim Maybe I misinterpreted him wanting it to be safer as him insinuating the park did not provide a safe environment. More safety measures couldn't hurt but it's also my understanding they want to do as little as possible to preserve nature in the parks too. Clipping in could have also prevented this fall. The ability to do that already exists yet they didn't use the safety precautions that are in place currently. I guess that's why I interpreted it as placing blame and not just wanting to improve.
@ambm_4 I've just read the articles that popped up on my feed, he might be going beyond what I've read. We'll see, but I think you nailed it!
The thing is: people can fall and take you with them. Harness is a must with 2 carabiners so you are never exposed to a fall. Imagine driving with the belief that nobody is ever going to make a mistake....
Right!
The obvious solution to the whole problem is to double the width of the route. That would give harness users and non harness users plenty of room to maneuver.
Two people can get by each other as it is, and passing on a doubled width would mean letting go of the cable until they were past.
Safety on climbs is relative. I think Grace Rohloff would be alive today if she had properly used the right gear. No, the right gear doesn't prevent you from falling on the climb, especially when the granite is slick with rain. It prevents you from falling past the next point of protection.
Exactly. Climbing gear is rarely for climbing - it's for falling. :)
@@BackcountryPilgrim Oh, if there was a Black Diamond or PETZL ascender that would work fluidly with the cables, it could be a good thing.
Like my bathtub, Half Dome is safe if you don't slip.
Yup. Everything's safe until it isn't!
The problem is when a storm appears and climbers panic. What the climbers should do in a storm is
sit down and clip onto a pole and wait till the storm passes. Wet granite is as slippery as ice or mud.
Panicking isn't good but I don't think this good advice during a thunderstorm!
@@BackcountryPilgrim The stats show that when average climbers see lightning
in the sky they panic and fall. The hikers
can also lie flat on the rock face during a storm. Trying to climb down during a storm does not seem to prevent death.
The worst place to be in lightning is high up, exposed, on rock (or attached to steel cables sitting on rock!). I've seen zero stats that blame panic for falling. People slip when the rock gets slick (i.e., during thunderstorms). It's unsafe either way, but getting to lower elevation is the best way to escape lightning.
@@BackcountryPilgrim How many people have died from lightning strikes on half dome,
and how many have died from falling?
Saving lives on Half Dome is extremely easy. Just don't try to climb it. If one desires safety they need only to eliminate the activity that creates danger. The decision to climb anything, using any method, introduces some level of danger. For anyone to believe climbing a sheer cliff or rock face can be mafe "safe" is demonstrative of having defective intellect. The decision to make the climb is one where the individual accepts the risk or danger and willing to accept the potential for the consequences of failure. Personal experience has shown that you will never feel more alive than when the risk of losing your life is highest. Everyone gets to make their own choices. Hopefully they perform an honest self assessment during the decision making.
The wilderness, or climbing, is never 100% safe. The fact that areas are open to the public means that we think citizens can weigh the risks and benefits for themselves, not that it is guaranteed safe.
Still a tragedy though, and if there are reasonable measures that could lessen the chance of a similar accident…I am for that.
Agreed. I'm fine with the occasional safety measure being put it place but the idea that the wilderness needs to be tamed to the level that any tourist can go anywhere they want is unacceptable.
There is more governmental safety placed into cars and vehicles, as well as road safety, where there are exponentially more deaths from that than from this.
Regulation of ubiquitous machines which pose a danger to large numbers of people and whose safety requires expertise to assess is a proper function of government.
@@BackcountryPilgrim , then, it goes against what you stated for the climb.
Pretty sure it doesn't.
Climbed half dome back in 1985. No permits, no rangers, no gloves and no safety gear. Like anything that deserves respect, the cable section definitely is not a place to be foolish. But a car is no different. How many lives would be saved in cars if we all wore crash helmets. People need to be responsible. There is some wisdom to the rangers statement that if you need safety equipment, you probably shouldn’t be climbing the dome. How many of the people that died would still be alive if they never made the climb? Like all things that carry some risk, a little common sense goes a long way…
My only issue with what the rangers are saying I'd if they tell people not to do something that would make them safer. I've followed a blood trail from a head injury off the Yosemite Falls trail and I still wouldn't wear a helmet on that hike - but if I want to, then I will. Freedom goes both ways!
I’m sure the girl that recently fell was treating it with respect. Shiit happens. I had to call 911 five weeks ago when a friend slipped on grave, on flat ground, right at Nevada falls. This was after hiking all the way from the Sentinal Dome… She broke her ankle in two places. On flat ground….
.
Any safety equipment on the cables is better than nothing! But, it must be quick to use and not hinder others.
No argument there!@@BackcountryPilgrim
If you want to save lives driving lower the speed
limit to 35 mph.
There's a time and place for many things in life. I'm much older than I want to be. I wouldn't do it now. There are too many people up there with a wide disparity of conditioning and preparedness. Place your well being and safety into the hands of the unprepared, not I. Clouds Rest is a much better choice in my opinion. ATB
Agreed on all points!
Lots of valid opinions. But the fact is inexperienced people will continue to climb here. And many of these people have never had exposure like this or hardly any at all. Many of these people would still be alive if they had rudimentary safety gear. Must don safety gear. This isn't 8000 meters. Waiting 10 more minutes is better than another fatality. The park service cannot decide who should be able to climb or not. Some of these youtube videos around show how dangerous it is to be climbing with people on these cables. As I stated below, it isn't so much myself I am would be worried about. You never know who is going have a complete meltdown up there. If someone falls into you and you don't have a line you are toast. I would feel safer climbing this in the spring with cables down honestly..
Agreed 💯
Helmets?
Personally I wouldn't, but I wouldn't tell someone not to.
It needs double run of stairs like at 7falls Colorado
I think they should take it all down!
Like horse riding. Risky. But use safety gear like helmets boots vests
Watching people via Ferrata up and down the Cables is pretty funny, I just think half these folks need to chill out and stay off Half Dome.
Do you disagree that it is effectively a via ferrata?
I would agree that clipping in should be required on Half Dome, BUT - you would still have to UNCLIP every time you come to the vertical bar and therefore, put yourself at great risk! I hiked all the way to the Subdome and decided Half Dome was not for me. I am certain I could have done it - I"m an avid hiker. However, I felt I'd be terrified on the way down and made a wise decision to stay at the subdome and wait for my friends to go up and down the cables.
I am not in favor of anyone being required to take such safety measures - but they shouldn't be told not to either!
Sounds like you made a wise choice - I have made the same myself. :)
BTW, the proper gear like I suggested keeps you attached to the cables during pole transitions as well. ;)
Just like everything in this world should be, it should be a personal choice for someone to make for themselves. But Covid taught us that you have no choice on your own safety.
The government taught us that, not covid. ;)
The number of death on the Half Dome cables is widely exaggerated. Read the study published in 2017, " *_Death on the Dome: Epidemiology of Recreational Deaths on Half Dome in Yosemite National Park_* " where in 85 year only 5 people had died on cables. Since then, there have been 3 deaths on the cables, including Ms. Rohloff this year. That would put the number at 8 people in 92 years. In the 2017 study, they stated that only one person had died by slipping. Of the other four, 3 died by lightning strikes, and one died of a heart attack. Yet apparently 12 to 15 people die in Yosemite, most from drowning. Please stoop using Ms. Rohloff's death to sensationalize your reporting and draw an un founded picture of what's really happening on Half Dome. Although I don't see an issue with using the harness. It's an individual choice.
These numbers were taken from news reports, I've seen the article but it's over 7 years out of date.
@@BackcountryPilgrim The report was published in 2017, and while there have been 3 deaths on the cables since then, including the most recent one; the long term trends and intrinsic risks have not changed; the study is still valid in determining risk. You may want to read it. I'm sure you understand how statistic work; while three deaths may be a spike, there's no indication that it marks the begining of a new trend. A change in the trend would indicate that something intrinsic on Half Dome has changed in the last 7 years, To my knowledge, Half Dome isn't more dangerous now than it was 10 years ago. As far as the studying being out of date, you'd have to offer an explanation of how it's not longer valid in predicting fatalities on the mountain. It's a historical retrospective analysis; it's still good. News articles are unreliable; don't reject a scholarly article in favor of news reports.
@@BackcountryPilgrim And btw, drowning is the number one cause of death at our National Parks. And over 4,500 people drown in the USA every year (CDC).
@@BackcountryPilgrim All this being said, advising people to use a harness will likely save people from death or injury. Your messaging is on point for harnesses. Thank you!
Like I said, I did read the report (which specifically says, "Multimedia sources were searched for deaths"). Its useful for its purpose but this video was not about the statistical likelihood of death causes at national parks in general nor even at Half Dome.
Rather, it was about the causes of deaths at Half Dome on the climb (not the entire hiking route). I have pointed out that more have died on the Mist Trail itself than on Half Dome. That is all this video was about, so the larger-scale stats are irrelevant to its point. Anyway I see you agreed on what my point was so I won't belabor it.
Enough of the barrages of these relentless Miracle Balm commercials TH-cam! You don’t have anyone else paying to show commercials? Really! Enough! Every commercial break is the same singular commercial. I’ve probably seen the first part of this over 500 times. Really great way to kill off views!
I wish content creators could influence TH-cam ads but we can't even turn them off anymore. :/
@@BackcountryPilgrim Thank you. I appreciate your response.
You can turn off any specific commercial you don’t want to see on TH-cam. Google it. Really easy. Content creators can’t choose commercials but subscribers can get rid of ones they don’t like.
The problem of half dome is it gives people false perception that it is easy when clearly one needs to be a pro to do it. There are videos up on TH-cam where kids are climbing it.
The system is worst than that of a 3rd world country
The cables in addition to the word "park" do seem to imply there's nothing to it. Don't really need to be a pro, but tourists should get some decent experience first!
I think they should close the trail down and for 2 months and do reconstruction by adding more steps to the summit. That’s just my opinion because the steps look far apart. I wonder if this is more or less dangerous than Angels Landing
I think it's more dangerous due to height and angle whereas Angel's looks to me to be more about edge danger. Extra planks would help but there are issues either way.
In China safety gear is mandatory in similar areas, thanks to the gov't, many life saved.
They're even letting families have more than one child. Such progress.
ROHLOFF? 😳
I know right?
Go in the off season. Avoid the idiotic people with their glove pile.
Pretty dated advice (there hasn't been a glove pile in years) but I agree the off season is better!
Meh. Life is perilous. Half Dome isn't for everyone. YMMV.
Exaggeration is poor style, man, BTW. Have a nice day.
What do you think I exaggerated?
@@BackcountryPilgrim I don't think he watched the video.
Lol! Wouldn't surprise me.
Grow in virtue??😮
Yup. th-cam.com/video/CgWElVvRnV8/w-d-xo.html
You are not only a danger to yourself if you fall. I climb it cables down quite a bit and always use a harness (with prussic). Safety gear is not just about feeling less afraid
I think cables down is safer when done correctly.
$6000 per day just on half Dome permits...🤔 That brings in over $1M in revenue... wow
It's the money maker!
No.
Ok.
You use TWO TWIST LOCK CARABINERS. That is non-negotiable. That is the only safe way to do it.
With only one carabiner, you are exposing yourself to death each time you reclip, which is about 40 times on the ascent and 40 times on the descent.
A standard carabiner without any kind of locking mechanism can come unclipped with enough force. A twist lock carabiner is secure and won't come undone.
The carabiners I show here are superior to standard twist locks and the via ferrata sets always use two of them.
@@BackcountryPilgrim The point is, you need some decent locking mechanism. Carabiners with no locking mechanism are not safe.
What locking mechanism do the carabiners the ones you showed here have?
@octaviusmigtonius2965 Sure, and a twist lock is great for climbing - but they require too much dexterity if you have gloves on or are at the wrong angle. The VF styles are also much stronger because climbing carabiner aren't meant to take impact loke the kinds generated on a VF fall. The lock on these is released by the grip.
@@BackcountryPilgrim That is true, they do require dexterity to untwist. The kind of gloves you have matters. But they are not ideal when you have to reclip every 10 ft, if there's a better option that locks securely without requiring that much dexterity to unlock.
@octaviusmigtonius2965 Yeah look into K-Type carabiners. Thays what the best VF lanyards use and you can get them separately too. The problem with the rock climbing VFs is they use gear made for rock climbing which is a completely different application.