TÁR (2022) - Ideas & Ending Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Analysis of Todd Field's TÁR, starring Cate Blanchett. Lots of spoilers, don't watch if you haven't already seen.
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I think the conversation with the child where she says "I'll hurt you and you can't tell another adult because I'm an adult and they won't believe you" - I think reflects her outlook professionally as well in terms of how she feels untouchable in her position of power compared to her "lesser" peers
Maybe you are right, although it seemed a great way to end a situation of bullying
I agree. But also why put lesser in quotes. The movie tells us again and again she is a legit great artist. Being a great artist does not entitle anyone to bullying or manipulation. But being great is being great. And we are told time and time again that she is great.
nothing to do with how she pays the rent. its a parent telling someone if you hurt my child, you will pay.
And a child would not be believed.
I totally agree with you! It was the example of how she used her power in the professional world too. Even the fact that she did not delete Krista's emails when she had a chance from her assistant's computer clearly shows that she believed in her own power over people and situations. The more one gets away with, the more invincible one thinks one is.
@@mattsedillo564 she is great and someone who believes that her talent gives her a great right to be immoral. Many topics of the problems that exist in our society are exposed in this movie. Let's look at it under this angle. It can be that in the conductor world where is a woman conductor is a rarity, she did not have any other choice, but be manipulative to stay afloat. It is undoubtably hard for any woman to compete in any area of the men's professional world. It does not excuse her preditory behaviour, but it explains that playing by those rules and existing in that environment shaped her. She even rejected her own family because they did not fit into her world. No matter what I loved the character and felt sorry for her downfall. As you said, her talent was overshadowing her faults. It is almost like the artist as a creator stands separately from the artist as a person.
She didn’t “find” her wife’s pill, the reason Sharon couldn’t find her pills was because Tar had them and was taking them, she said she found a stray one in the drawer, but it was from the new bottle that Rachel filled.
Yes but why. Because she wanted to control her spouses ability to remain calm?
@@jonathankr i think the implication was that she felt she needed them as we often see her breathing heavily and freaking out before she goes out and conducts
yeah she was being shady, controlling, and gaslighting "oh i found a pill here"
@@jonathankr she's abusive
Early clue of her narcissism; a lying manipulator of the worst type:
The scene towards the end of her picking the masseuse has all the candidates lined up exactly like an orchestra, with her positioned as the conductor again, and she ended up picking number 5. To me, this didn't just clearly represent Mahler's 5th symphony, but her realization that the one thing she's been missing this entire time in her life (remember how she couldn't find her book in her house on the 5th symphony, it was missing) wasn't just the 5th symphony she never got to conduct in the end, but rather what that symphony represented - love. Or more accurately, love and lust.
Recall how in the beginning interview of the film, she expresses how she perceives the 5th symphony (which she called a mystery) to be about the raw, unbridled love between Mahler and his new wife. In actuality, such a new love is naturally accentuated heavily by strong lust between newlyweds. Meanwhile, Lydia as a conductor has been entrenched in (and ultimately buried by) her unbound lust towards other women.
Her picking this masseuse, who was arguably the prettiest one there and whom she obviously found the most attractive & ended up instinctively picking, was decided by her subconscious lust. She picked her from an orchestra of masseuses just as she picked out the prettiest girls from her orchestra members to lust over. She finally realized that and thanks to her being number 5, connected it to the missing symphony in her life that she just could not find or figure out. What she's been lacking this whole time is love. Raw, purposeful love to pair with her lust. This is why she felt such a strong revulsion at the realization, that she ended up throwing up on the spot. She realized how misguided she's been this whole time and only figured it out after it was all too late, after all had been lost. If she focused on imbuing her life with love, everything could have been different.
#5 = 5th Symphony = Love = Missing Piece. What a powerful & poignant connection & metaphor. This film blew me away with all its utterly brilliant details like this.
Number 5 was the only one who made eye contact with her, also.
The explanation I was looking for. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
I also like how compared to the orchestra, Number 5 is seated where Olga was when she first arrived
Wow, thank you for writing this!
Who is the asian man that appears in Lydia's dream?? And who is the old woman who takes care of Petra in one scene? Thanks!!
The one thing about the ending I found the most interesting was that it built up her trip to Asia as something new and less important but also very serious. There were clips of her seriously focusing on her work and taking it as seriously as any other music for a big orchestra, only for us to be shown the music she was conducting was for some low-stakes fandom event. Although at a much lower level and in spite of being entirely questionable as a person, she keeps on taking her new job just as seriously. Almost as to say that although she is deeply flawed on a personal level, her professional integrity was and is never to be questioned, she deserves the praise. Here again linking to the conversation about art vs artist
It is clear that Lydia is sincerely devoted to her art & does not simply view it as a path to power. The scene where she goes back home & starts smiling & then crying after watching a VHS tape of Leonard Bernstein makes it exceedingly clear to me that she did have integrity about her art.
Yes, it is partially about love for the art, but as Lydia says earlier in the film, a conductor is nothing without their orchestra. Stripped of her positions in the classical world, it could be that Lydia feels this idea deeply and desperately needs an orchestra, no matter where or what medium, to maintain her ego.
low stakes fandom event might be a bit harsh, the monster hunter game is a pretty large name in asia, though ofcourse its not your typical classical symphony
@@Joris0815 For someone like Lydia it is. The gulf between a video game concert and Gustav Mahler is astronomical. Its like dining in Per Se your whole life and then getting thrown into burger king.
@snatcher I think showing the game and a fandom orchestra is to show how she is pushed out of the elite music space (?)( that she adores and desperately wanted to be in) because of genZ culture but again finds work exactly in the genZ culture itself just for her to understand and reassess.
This was a masterful film. By far my favorite sequence, though, was the way Lydia manipulates events to get the young cellist she fancies the solo. This was such a keenly observed example of how people like Lydia abuse their power in full view of everyone. She rigged the conditions to get exactly the outcome that she wanted, and everyone in the orchestra knows it. Yet, anyone who might want to call her out on it would have nothing concrete to point to. Choice of music favoring a cellist? Well, she put it to a vote! Saying the soloist would be from "in house"? Well, that's just a curtesy to my team, isn't it? Demanding auditions, insulting the first chair so she doesn't even try for it? Isn't that just democratic? Quick auditions, favoring the girl who is prepared? Didn't the first chair suggest that? Even at the end, when her wife says the new cellist can't do it because she isn't officially part of the orchestra yet-- didn't Lydia even then agree and start to call out the other cellist for the good news? So insidious-- everyone sees what is going on, but everything was done so they are left to question their own lying eyes.
Absolutely agree, you can see the wheels turning in Lydia's and the orchestra members's heads, but the outcome is predetermined. Such is the nature of power.
Loved your coment. I dont think power explains it all, though. Def.Lydia had psychopatyc and narcisist traits. Probably she's used people at her convenience since the begining of her career. Maybe she just couldnt help it. She was a sex predator, an that prevented from finding a fullfilling relationship
A similar portrayal of her yielding her power can be seen when she goes to meet Sebastian to tell him he is replaced. She twists it so that it seems as though it is almost his own idea to leave. It is evident that she is used to employing such cunning tactics.
@@amelieh.3327 Excellent example. Another one with the cellist: she saw her shoes in the bathroom before the blind audition, liked her, and CHANGED HER SCORE after she saw the same shoes as she was walking off stage.
Her wife plays her too.
The incident with the neighbor has a far deeper meaning. It is her repulsion to the dim blue-collar life she may have had had she remained as Linda. Suffocating in lower middle-class obscurity, a caregiver to an aging parent. Trapped in a role daughters are expected to fill. It bookends nicely with an earlier scene with her wife who is aging and in declining health (albeit in a more affluent home).
Tar, for all her upward mobility, eventually must face the same family dynamics like most of us do: "In sickness and in health. richer or poorer"... respect and honor lifelong commitments pledged to our partners. She chose instead, selfishly (as many men of power do), to risk it all.
Also, if Lydia had been in touch with her own humanity perhaps she could have called in emergency care for the neighbor's mother after helping her back to the chair. Instead, the woman dies the next day, implying that Lydia is partly culpable for having witnessed the fall incident in all the squalor and doing nothing about it. She thinks only of herself.
@@wnoyes1100 This is very similar to the very brief scene where Lydia is jogging & she hears a woman screaming & there are police sirens heard in the background, but Lydia is too far away to do anything about it. It gets at a consistent theme of the movie. Is it really an achievement for a woman to reach the pinnacle of power if she throws just as many other women to the wolves as a ruthless man in the same position would have?
Agree with your interpretation - also, there is apparently a scene that did not make it into the movie (not sure if it was filmed) in which Lydia's mother attends a book signing and we learn her mother is deaf. I've also heard Field played with the idea of making both of Lydia's parents deaf. Blanchett also believes Lydia had a bad childhood of bullying and neglect. I wish they had kept this scene - would also help explain why she had such a disgusted response to the ailing neighbor.
That is a very intriguing point! Interesting also, that you bring up the police sirens and woman screaming. I thought that those might actually be sounds in her imagination as the sirens echo the notes she keeps playing over and over on the piano.
In the beginning when she's in New York, Francesca tells her her mom wants to drop by and say hello and Tar only answers 'next time', I think she wanted to escape her family and have nothing to do with them. Also remember hearing in an interview Todd Field say that she grew up next to the largest landfill in America in Staten Island, which would also explain her compulsive hand washing/sanitizing, and disgust at the smell from her neighbor's apartment)
It seemed like her assistant was against her from the beginning. & Olga was a complete mystery. She disappeared into that building, went on that trip with Lydia to New York, lied to her about being jet lagged & she was recording & mocking Lydia during her book reading.
And I’m assuming Lydia’s reaction to the massage parlor was a moment of forced reflection. It was an extreme example of the kind of behavior that put her in that position
That’s not how I saw the assistant at all. How can that be when you see her turn the moment she hears that she hasn’t gotten the job. Before that, she seems deeply enamored of her and hurt that their romantic/sexual relationship has ended.
@@thomasceneri867 Her assistant was the one texting the first 2 times wasn’t she? Her assistant also kept in contact with the red headed girl & she cooperated with the lawyers before Lydia even knew there was a case against her. Maybe she wasn’t necessarily “against her” but she wasn’t as blindly subservient as Lydia thought
I'm pretty sure Olga knew about Lydia's dark side well before we ever saw her. Her uncle is the head of an orchestra (or something like that, she mentions this when they're having lunch together) so she already had connections to the music world along with insider knowledge.
I don't think it was a coincidence that Olga happened to show up in the bathroom right as Lydia was washing her hands.
She disappeared in the building because she simply walked through it, she didn't live there she just wanted Lydia to think that. It's a classic sign of mistrust when someone doesn't want to be dropped off on their doorstep, instead walking an extra distance just so the person driving can't track you down or invite themselves in.
She pretended to be jetlagged because she knew spending time with Lydia in a hotel of all places would put her into an uncomfortable position. She knew that Lydia has a tendency to groom young, pretty proteges so she used that to get advantage and knew how to shut down the messy bits before they got messy.
@@benjamintillema3572 All of that makes sense. Olga was taking advantage of a situation. Although I did think she’d end up being more receptive to Lydia when she asked about the “assault”. It seemed like she showed some actual concern, as if she felt partially responsible because she knew Lydia had followed her into that building.
@@JDotWill No, I believe that was Krista, the woman who kills herself. You see the back of her head and it’s a fire engine red. I think that the movie is purposely vague and subtle, so often it’s difficult to tell what the characters are really like - I mean this in a good way.
I love that the mystery forces the audience to draw their own conclusions. But what I love most is that the movie illustrates that the abuse of power involves more than just the two parties (the abuser and the abused). For example, Francesca, Sharon, Olga, Elliot, Sebastian, etc all knew what Tár was doing. And they used it to their own respective advantages.
Nobody was too innocent after all.
I find it interesting that Lydia Tar as a character is so very similar to Mahler. Mahler was a composer and a conductor who would get wrapped up in a plethora of scandals with women in his orchestra's and opera's which forced him to go elsewhere and climb the power ladder once more. Mahler disrespected anyone with authority over him. And he even had a struggling marriage that Tar eludes to at the beginning. Which is probably why she is so obsessed with recording all of his symphonies. So separating the art from the artist is not as easy as we may think?
Interesting ! You can see Mahler tapes in the movie. I think there's a connection with Tar's personality
Maybe, but I hope it's not true. I see the film as a cautionary tale.
I absolutely disagree. Any similarity to Mahler is superficial. Mahler’s works are great “absolute” music but they are at the same time overtly, incontestably, self-admittedly influenced by aspects of his life (more so than most other composers). Mahler’s wife was a powerful woman and had a turbulent love life. Music was what drove Mahler, not power. He gained power because he was such a great conductor; power wasn’t an end in itself for him. So, Tar bears almost no resemblance to Mahler apart from the superficial fact that they were both conductors and composers. Conductors are human and humans are flawed; conductors have power and power corrupts. That’s why orchestras need good separation of powers.
Separating the art from the artist is very difficult. Particularly if the art makes you a fan of the artist.
I believe everybody can draw their own lines. However, if the lines are based on ethnicity, color, gender, or sex, that is just bigotry. It is fashionable nowadays to say that they will not listen to somebody’s music, because they are an old cis white man. But if somebody says they won’t listen to somebody’s music, because they are young gender queer, black men, people get angry. And so they should, either way!
Then, again, in situations where somebody has, say, hurt children or something. Should you still ignore what they did if you like their art?
I would say no.
As for Bach, yes, he had 20 children but he had them with his two wives. One died, and he remarried. Nowadays, people feel that smaller families are what we should have, but that doesn’t make somebody a misogynist.
@@Saffron-sugar that's a false equivalence when you're talking about the differences in race. It's something Tar herself tried to do in her debate with the student in the beginning of the movie
I have a theory that Olga had known Krista. During Olga and Tars lunch she mentioned that she was in a junior choir. In the short article clip of Kristas suicide it mentioned she was a conductor of a junior choir. I further think that Olga and Tars assistant were definitely in on canceling her since in the beginning we see her assistant live streaming and chatting about her, and then we see Olga doing the same thing during her book reading. I also can’t help but think about the book she was given at the start, with that pattern on the inside which we then see again in her home and her daughters room.
Good point we know for a fact her assistant and Olga were the ones using that live streaming video text because even with the scandal of the video with the black student no students were allowed cellphones. Fransceca was probably there. She knew what TAR had done to Krista and all 3 were close so fransceca was smart enough to have something to use against TAR if she didn’t grant her the position
@@HiveMind629 That's a good point. Francesca may have been the only character to have the technical means to record TAR secretly during the lecture, but that doesn't answer why she was doing the recording. Francesca's motive for making the recording is that she can keep the recording as leverage just in case she doesn't get the conductor slot she wants.
Nice observation about the junior choir connection! I also remember that in Olga's lunch with Lydia that it was revealed that Olga was into women's rights during her education. I thought perhaps that Olga knew Francesca long before, Francesca revealed Lydia's true abusive nature to Olga, and Olga decided to use that information to her advantage.
I think it is pretty clear that by the time of the events of the movie, Francesca and Olga are in communication. It is likely that in the opening scene on the plane, it is Olga texting Francesca as she accompanied Lydia to NY for the book signing (unless, crazy idea here, we are really looking at a ghost story and it is Olga texting Krista's ghost, but that would be wild). The other indicator of Francesca and Olga being in communication is that you see Francesca send a text immediately after Lydia walks into the bathroom, and immediately thereafter you see Olga walk into the bathroom too, which results in her ticket to being picked for the orchestra position. But you theory could still be correct - Olga knew Krista via the choir, Krista dies, Olga connects with Francesca, and the two plot to use their knowledge to their advantage (get Francesca the assistant conductor job, get Olga the orchestra job, or take down Lydia if they can't succeed).
Regardless of whether Olga reaches Lydia through Krista or Francesca, I see Olga as a young Lydia, who will use the social hierarchy of the classical world and the sexual abuse inherent in it to her advantage. Whether she is doing so to avenge Krista, or to just get her own success, is unclear to me. This is all similar to the notion that Lydia got the Berlin position by secretly dating Sharon, the concertmaster.
@@jonsrecordcollection7172 Yes!
@@tekraynak interesting!
I totally missed the sitting ghost woman, but I caught this: Lydia Tár sits at the piano and quietly plays/sings a tiny bit of “Every Time We Say Goodbye” by Cole Porter - the part that goes “how strange the change from major to minor” - and it occurred to me that this little line was a micro-summary of the whole movie, and a detail that could very easily be missed.
Brilliant haha
Good one 👌
I'm so glad you caught that too! I was very satisfied when I connected the major to minor in foreshadowing her arc but I thought maybe I was reading too much into it
"... how strange the change from major to minor every time we say goodbye." that was a very subtle detail
The film is even more complex and ambiguous than that. TÁR does not just award the cellist the solo role because of attraction. Its interesting that cellist actually wins the blind auditions through unanimous vote.
Lydia is legitimately talented and exceptionally capable in her role ,but this is almost inseparably intermixed with her very problematic personal life.
I think the movie suggests that perhaps this sanitized view of artists may at times be inachievable in the real world.
Sucks for the 1st cellist, though. So proud upon Lydia announcing the accompanying piece, knowing the solo would normally fall to her, yet her ego's so hurt she doesn't audition, yet still has to be there as a judge. Moreover, the musicians realize fast that Lydia only put forth the piece because of Olga.
To clarify some more: Lydia gave a very short window of time between selecting the piece and holding auditions. She knew Olga had already practiced and performed the piece in another group, so Olga now had an advantage.
Yes, the comments regarding their relationship are surprising. It's clear that Lydia is attracted to Olga but my expectation early on was that Lydia would show preferential treatment to Olga despite her lack of competence and that no one else would be able to call her out on it due to her position. However, it turns out that not only does Olga deserve the spot, but Lydia seems jealous of the girl's talent. Olga starts ignoring her when she realizes that Lydia could no longer benefit her on a professional level.
Lydia's relationship with her wife is also more complicated. It's clear that the relationship was transactional with the wife being more worried about her position due to the allegations. She didn't care about the truth. Just like everyone else in Lydia's life, her wife was using her.
@@1FunkyAsh Exactly. When Olga first auditions (a blind audition) Tar changes her review only after seeing her boots, recognizing her as the cute girl in the restroom.Olga wasn't exceptional and certainly didn't have the experience of her elders, save for the Elgar. Tar only chooses it because she knows Olga is rehearsed in it, and by creating a surprise announcement and hasty audition, only one other person even shows up. The better cellists that respect the principal cellist don't even audition in solidarity. That's why Olga does relatively well at this "audition."
@@politefan8141 Of course her wife was worried about her position. Lydia broke THE rule in their marriage where the family was supposed to be first. A rule valued for Sharon only, but not for Lydia. Sharon knew exactly what was gonna happen next and she feared losing her position as well.
5:24
It wasn't Krista's apartment. Lydia's assistant, Francesca, had suddenly quit and Lydia showed up at Francesca's apartment to confront her only to find it abandoned and in disarray. Francesca, Krista, and Lydia went to Peru together and formed a tight bond. Part of this bond was making/deciphering anagrams as some kind of secret code. The lines of the symbol are the result of rearranging the letters. You see this in Fracesca's apartment with a piece of paper changing "Tàr on Tàr" to "RAT ON RAT".
10:40
Lydia didn't really "solve" any problems. She already had her wife's pills because she was using them for herself, using them I guess to protect her image. Having a prescription for anti-anxiety medication would damage her refined reputation, so she uses her wife's pills behind her back instead. And as for the daughter, I don't think a grown women threatening a child, like an eight year old, on school grounds really is a solution, and frankly it's amazing that that didn't backfire spectacularly but I'm going to guess the movie already forgot about that by the second act.
Thank you, I was surprised the reviewer didn't catch that with the pills. Thanks for the Rat on Rat, I missed that.
Where was it sad that the three formed a bond in peru?
Did anyone notice that the pattern which someone attributes to the anagrams, also appear in the red and blue playdough in Petra's room to the left of the stuffed animal orchestra in addition to the signed page in the gifted book and the cover of the metronome? I wonder what the pattern means in these locations. Thoughts anyone? Could it be that Krista had secretly been sneeking into the house and playing with Petra? We see that redheaded Krista is watching the New Yorker episode from the back row and she also watches Francesca cross the street into the Carlyle hotel after apparently (not shown) leaving the book at the front desk. Also, if you look up the real life author of the book she had an affair in real life with another woman and was obsessed with her a la Krista. Perhaps that's what really scares TAR so much. Could all the noises that TAR hears be her paranoia that Krista or some other ex-lover perhaps even Francesca is stalking her? Or is it her past misdeeds stalking her?
@@danmolino9315 The pattern on Krista's face is similar to the facial tattoos found among the S. American Indian tribal people Lydia had studied. A similarly arcane reference is the song during the opening credits, sung most likely by a native woman of the same tribe.
The threatening of the child isn't forgotten. When she attempts to pick her daughter up from school, and her wife takes her instead, we see the "bully" child in red coat leaving with her mother. So the filmmakers clearly wanted us to remember the issue. However, what that scene means is left to us to decide. If nothing else the implication is that that verbal abuse could also be used against her in court
I like that you can find things you didn't notice from watching again. I saw this movie two times and theaters and didn't notice this story point: someone on Twitter just posted screenshots of the film and there are literal GHOSTS of women hidden in the film. I can't tell if they are both Krista but one is. Like Tar is being HAUNTED for her misdeeds. Just insanity - this movie is so layered.
Just watched the movie a few minutes ago and I've been looking through the comments here and haven't seen many people mentioning this. On one occasion, Lydia wakes up to Petra yelling and as she's leaving her room there's someone sitting in the chair watching her sleep and she walks past completely unaware. Also, when Lydia is comforting her daughter(continuation of the same scene), Petra is frightened by something in the hallway/doorway which leads me to believe it could be more than just a ghost...
I thought I was the only one who noticed the woman sitting by the bed
@@jewishmafia9801 Yess i noticed this when watching i got so scared 🤣 i ended up rewatching the scene to make sure i didn’t imagine it
Yes! Haven't found any mentions about that in explanation videos. These are really creepy moments, first time on 56:08 in Lydia's smaller apartment and second time on 1:57 in bigger one. Plus this metronome with symbols scene. Looks like there's literally a ghost!
I did see that too. I figured it was her wife who fell asleep in the chair but she didn't wake up so it was creepy
And how interesting is it that Andris foreshadowed the end of Lydia’s career citing two composers, one of which was dragged off of the stage, the other hunted, and It seems Lydia was both.
He was referencing Herbert von Karajan and Wilhelm Furtwangler, who were both conductors, not composers. Both were German conductors whose careers flourished under the Nazi regime, but one was an ardent loyalist to the Nazi party, while the other was a known objector.
Pretty sure it was Francesca's apartment she went into and saw the "Rat on Rat" doodles on the paper. After all, it was drawn on the cover sheet of a manuscript of Tar's book, which Francesca, being her assistant, would have had access to.
Has anyone else noticed how often Tar tends to call other people "robots" when she wants to evaluate them negatively or emphasize their lack of emotional intelligence? It might tell us something significant about her position on many things: for example, I think in fact she deeply appreciates the authenticity of wild human nature and pure uncontrollable emotions that any of us have (her interest in Asian culture makes sense considering that). That inner freedom gave her an ability to see things from many perspectives and to become a truly great Artist, but it also made her vulnerable and destroyed her eventually. Maybe there was a crucial point in Tar's life when she gave herself that inner permission to do some dangerous and controversial things in order to stay "human", not a "robot"?
100th like! Excellent analysis as always.. a few things I noticed:
- Lydia's brother called her Linda, implying that Lydia Tar may be her alias she made up to have a more artist-like name
- The opening credits did not have Cate Blanchett or any other actors on it, just crew members
Going to watch this a second time before I declare this a masterpiece, but God dam... this movie is phenomenal
I think her real name is Linda Tarr.
@@meadow9441
The orchestra's management already decided Tar was to be removed from her position and took the score first (probably via her wife). It is also possible that that apartment isn't hers but is provided for her, so the orchestra's board may have access to it - the score would belong to the orchestra until after the performance and would then be gifted to the conductor.
@@taahdaah3813 Yes, the name Linda Tarr is on her diplomas on the wall in her childhood bedroom. She changed her name to LYDIA TÁR, even added the accent to the last name to reinvent herself. Oh, the pretentiousness.
LydiaTár's character details are freely based on some famous conductors' biographies, mostly Bernstein's. Leonard Bernstein was born Louis Bernstein in a low middle-class family of no musical inclination. There are minor similarities to others like Marin Alsop, although I believe no one would like to be associated with the least appealing sides of Tár's personality. From a strictly factual point of view the screenplay is as plausible as it can be; it is clear all rehearsal and master class scenes were copydesked from real situations. The screenplay is as magnificent in its technical aspect as it is as a piece of drama. I just wonder if all those dropped names and musical jargon are a bit boring for people who are not seriously into classical music. The internal dynamics of professional interaction is spot on, but I believe most people can relate to it, as it wouldn't be different in any kind of working environment.
@@atticstattic But she lost the performing score way before going to NY. She even asked her wife (who by that time hadn't heard anything regarding the accusations). My theory is that Francesca at some point sold the score to Eliot. He mentioned once during a lunch he had with Lydia, he had tried to persuade Francesca to let him see Lydia's notes.
“Tar, starring future 3 time Oscar winner cate blanchett”
Thanks so much for doing this. Tár in my opinion as a film is a true work of art. Not only are the performances great, the screenplay and direction are seamless, but this work holds a mirror to our society in a manner that is fodder for seemingly endless discussion. Favorite film of the year.
I just saw this last night, and I deeply appreciate your breakdown because it made me appreciate the film even more. The first 30 minutes I at first found to be pretentious, but having your thoughts on why Field included the credits first - to highlight the crew instead of the star - are brilliant. Great video!
I think the filming started while they should still have been in preproduction finalising the plot structure. The director had a great cast and arty ideas burning a hole in his pocket. The film is littered with loose ends. Characters, ideas, plot threads, starting but going nowhere. The film has an elephant in the room that critics refuse to acknowledge because the film looks and sounds great. It is a simple story told badly. The audience are not to blame. If you thought in was pretentious, that's not a failing on your part.
@@scabthecat Not true at all, you must be very limited intellectually, there is not a single loose end or an improvisation, the dialogues and the screenplay are superb.
@@manantial773 The audience are not to blame. Calling someone intellectually limited for not appreciating a film in the same way as you do is the same as the modern compulsion to call anyone at all a racist.
It took me halfway through the credits before I realized that they were in reverse order.
That heavily influenced my interpretation of the movie.
How so?
How so?
Tar completely knew that what she was doing was wrong. She deleted her emails immediately after finding out about Krista’s death. When her assistant didn’t delete the emails, she lied to get into her computer. You don’t do those things if you feel justified to behave in a certain way. And she lies about everything. “I don’t read my press” she does. “Love is driving force” nope, it’s power. Evidenced by her ignoring her wife’s calls and stealing her meds. It’s all about how her power is eroding. Olga doesn’t need her. She has her own connections and talent. Her student won’t let her bully him because he has a different perspective. Her assistant turns on her because Tar didn’t keep her up her side of the bargain in their transactional relationship.
But did she have an obligation to? If Tar is really a perfectionist and cares about her art most of all, wouldn't she award the position based on talent or experience no matter what the potential consequences? Wasn't Francesca using Lydia to cement her own power while caring little or nothing for her? Could Krista's downward spiral have been the result of her not getting rewarded due to her lack of talent? Could Olga's intention have been to cast Lydia aside when she didn't need her anymore? Why did Lydia's wife seem more offended about the PR implications than whether the allegations were true or not? And based on the fact that she ended up losing her daughter, the one person she cared about most, goes to show that her fears that caused her to try to cover her tracks were entirely justified. I don't think Lydia is the worst character in the story, not by a long shot.
@@politefan8141 Lydia blackballed Krista and purposely ruined her career. She sent dozens of emails telling people not to hire her. Olga didn’t initiate anything with Lydia. And she had so much hubris that she didn’t think she had to hold up her end of the bargain in her transactional relationships. Not with her wife and not with Francesca. With the newer people like Olga and her student, she’s a dinosaur and times have changed. She can’t navigate the system in the ways that she’s used to.
@@jazzallmine I think we're left to wonder how much of Lydia's testimony is true regarding Krista being disturbed. Lydia's career did benefit from being in a relationship with her wife so she's not faultless, but at the same time she's not obligated to hire her assistants when her goal is to find the most qualified candidates. I disagree with Olga. I think it's possible that her plan was to use Lydia all along although it's clear that Lydia hired her because of her talent. Ultimately, I don't think a system that rewards nepotism is one we should aspire to even if Lydia and Olga were talented enough to achieve success on their own.
What I like about this film is that it doesn't provide easy answers. Perhaps Lydia was infatuated with Olga but we don't see her initiate a sexual relationship with her. We also don't see the circumstances which led to Krista being fired. However, we do see that Francesca's motivation is driven purely by revenge for not being selected. We also see Lydia being unfairly targeted due to the video being published on social media without context.
@@politefan8141 There are definitely no completely sympathetic characters. I also love that this a film that respects our intelligence and isn't didactic. For me, it's more of a commentary on the rules changing and each system has its pros and cons. Both "systems" have mechanisms to punish people and that's what she's experiencing, for better or worse.
I disagree with parts of your observation. I think the ending was a victory for Tar. After the Dark Night of The Soul beat where she is reminded what her values are and why she became a musician, she realizes that for achieving that she doesn't need all of the facade. She can do it anywhere and move people emotionally. There is a scene at the end where she is working in this very loud street restaurant with ease and she's focused, which can be compared to how neurotic and sensitive to sound she was before. Loved the last sentence of the movie: "Don't let anyone judge you."
All in all, I think the reason that Tar gets out of that mess victorious with some losses, of course (it's a victory because she gets to do what she loves, creating music and emotionally moving the audience) because deep down she still holds on to her values and who she is.
From Variety:
Oscar-nominated and ACE Eddies nominated editor Monika Willi reveals a line that never made it into the film: “Tár never quits. Tár makes music across the globe, no matter the audience.” According to Willi, “This says to audiences she’s holding up, she’s standing upright and she doesn’t quit.”
This was also my impression at the end of the movie. For some reason I remembered the "Gone with the Wind" ending (the Scarlett monologue after Rhett left her and her life seemed to be completely broken): "Home, I'll go home. And I'll think of some way to get him back. After all tomorrow is another day!" Only for Lydia "home" is not a place, but rather her work, music. It's who she is in the first place at her core. As long as she is able to work, to conduct - anything, anywhere - nothing is lost, there will be tomorrow, there will be another day. So it's the ending of hope for her, rather than despair.
Great analysis, love the points you made about the opening credits.
One thing I would add is about her family home which she visits - I agree that's probably her brother, but I picked up on it being more of a blue-collar New York accent. She takes a NYC cab to this home (you can see it on the emblem on the seat as she arrives). She actually says to the cab driver something like "here's 50" or so - which to me suggests this isn't too far from Manhattan where she was in the previous scene. Most likely it's an outer borough in a more blue-collar working class neighborhood, which could be anything from Staten Island, South Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx etc. Could even be New Jersey. Basically this suggests she grew up in the NYC area but "from the other side of the tracks" so to speak, in a world that appears to have been much more working class and far from how she presents herself. I find this an interesting point because it's not like some distant southern small town - it's the same city, which I think ties into this theme of dual identity and controlling identity. Same coin, different side.
Also when she pulls out cassette tapes to watch Leonard Bernstein, I think it's worth noting that in his time he was not only a great conductor & composer, but he was a bit of a public educator on music and the orchestra - he hosted a tv show on CBS called "Young People's Concerts" where he would conduct the NY Phil to play famous classical pieces and explain the music and instruments in particular for young audiences. Very likely this tape recording is from one of these episodes, and it was likely syndicated when she was growing up in this home, exposing a young "Linda" to classical music - as you can see in the pictures in her room, her only other musical interest as a child was the accordion, which to me also suggests she probably grew up playing either folk or polka or something that we might call working-class music - it's not an instrument used in the orchestra. So this exposure to classical music via TV is kind of interesting, it's not a world she grew up in but rather was something on television which suggests an image outside the self, an image which can be controlled before the public, and that appealed to her as a way to recreate herself and deny her real upbringing.
It’s Staten Island
She says “make it $40” to the taxi driver - rounding up to include a tip. Very NYC to say it that way.
She plays the accordion to annoy the neighbours, and she chairs the Accordian fund for scholarships.
@@SuperNevile And there are pictures of her playing the accordion as a little girl when she goes back home. Calling her fund the Accordion Fund was a way of retaining that connection to her past.
i saw that Fields says she’s from Staten Idland, and grew up next to a large landfill.
Hey there, very nice analysis. Just wanted to clarify that the music at the end is from the video game Monster Hunter, which she is now reduced to conducting for a gamers' convention. There were a bunch of people in my audience who recognized the music and the costumes, and laughed like crazy!
Yeah I think "shes now working on stuff she has no experience with" is missing the point that shes reduced to working on (for her) complete junk. With an audience that likely has no idea who she is, and wouldn't appreciate her conducting if they did, because they're just there for the brand.
@@snatchr2451 I also love how the composer wasn't able to travel to meet with Lydia prior to the performance. Lydia doesn't even get the comfort, at least for this performance, of having a 1-on-1 conversation with the creator of the art that has now reduced her to a "dog act".
I saw Monster Hunter in the credits at the beginning and was like « hold on why is this here » and when the end came I just knew that was going to be a convention 😂
@@Arithekiller Despite all that she went through, consequent of her own maneuverings, there’s something admirable about seeing Lydia take all the prep work for the perfromance just as seriously as she did for Mahler V.
Thank you because I couldn’t understand that end. Now the downfall is real. 👍
I love your takeaway from the meaning of the reverse credits in the beginning. That is very impressive foreshadowing if Todd intended this
that was the first time that i ever seen a film that does that
@@digimei2143 The Forgiven (2022), starring Ralph Fiennes and Jessica Chastain, did it too. All of the credits play in reverse at the start of the film. No credits at the end, only a “The End” title card.
@@digimei2143
It was very common for all films to begin with the credits back in the day.
Interesting review! One thing that stuck with me is that Tár is a woman who doesn't think her gender has had any affect on her career and on where she got in life. She doesn't know the date for international women's day - aka she is most likely not a feminist. She does not seem to think that part of her identity has influenced the way she is or should be perceived. However, the world does not forget for one second she is a woman (and how could it?). The NYT interview celebrates that fact. The student she has an argument with calls her a bitch (a very gendered insult, whether we've forgotten that or not). I don't think the movie has a clear stand on the matter (which might be what makes it so good) but it's interesting to wonder whether Tár's character would be so fiercely punished by the end if she was a man. In the end, she could not escape her identity, it caught up with her and her actions. Again, I don't think the movie has an answer, but the question is there in my opinion.
It's good people in positions of power are being held accountable more and more nowadays. It is naive to think that gender (or race or sexuality etc), identity does not play a role on how harshly public opinion will tear a person apart. We as a society do not separate the mistakes from the wrongdoer.
One thing I picked up on is how Lydia seems to scoff at the idea of feminism; refusing to be a female icon, wanting more men back in the orchestra, not knowing about national women's day, only for her to be struck by the way women are treated in other countries and be absolutely disgusted by it.
I can‘t wait to rewatch it. So many layers and nuances to discover.
Where can I watch this movie tho?!
It’s in select theaters that feature non-traditional movies (for the most part). I saw it in a theatre that is noted for its independent films.
@@tiago161 is there anyway I can watch it online it’s not at my local theater?!!!!!
@@tiago161 I’ve been wanting to watch this movie but ofc I can’t find it online
Exactly!! So much to ponder and discuss! Brilliant direction & scriptwriting by Field and Superb acting from all the actors! Blanchette was sublime!
Also I think it's interesting that it's actually a question whether she's actually a great artist. Like we hear like three notes of her music, and Olga corrects one of them. Her own music is thin, she can't make things that are genuinely original. She can't engage with the past and she can't reject it.
Also further illustration as to how bold Olga is at taking advantage of her position with Lydia, which further dovetails with the fact that the piece is dedicated to Petra.
On the other hand, a top notch conductor is much more widely recognized and better payed than a classical contemporary composer, so there is a friction there, It sort of mirrors Mahler's career, as he was more widely respected as a conductor and would only compose during his Summer breaks.
“It’s the questions that keep the audience involved. Not the answers” 🎯
I just saw Tar and it has haunted me for 2 days. Besides the Juilliard scene, I wasn’t sure if I liked it until about an hour in. One of the best and most thought provoking new films I’ve seen in a long time.
My wife and I both just finished it. We are both questioning what was real and what was just in her head. But neither of us were even thinking about "Cancel Culture".
me, too. It wasn’t until after I saw it that I realized Todd Field did In The Bedroom and Little Children, two other great films.
Lucky you, two days don't sound that bad. It has been orbiting in my mind since December 2023.
I'm sure someone has already mentioned it, but just in case, the patterns in Crysta's face and the you see throughout are from the Shipibo-Konibo culture from Ucayali, which is mentioned a couple of times throughout the movie. I think it alludes to how white ppl just use and take advantage of other cultures just as she took advantage of Crysta. And this is furthered when she talks about how someone had to look for some other composer in Africa and I was like "so this white man is going to Africa to "learn" but effectively just take the culture from them and use it for their own advantage" because at the end they're just using these indigenous knowledge as props to just elevate themselves.
Also, the music in the credits is from the Shipibo-Konibo people. :)
Tar is an anagram for Art
I’m confused - I thought Lydia went to Francesca’s house, furious that Francesca had suddenly quit - and it was FRANCESCA who left the mess and the Rat on Rat - NOT Krista.
You are right. That is Francesca's house
Just a few things I’ve noticed. I’m pretty sure that was her assistant’s apartment where she found Tar on Tar changed to Rat on Rat. And she didn’t solve the problem of her wife’s pills she was the problem - she took the pills. She lied about finding one in a drawer - she took that out of the bottle the assistant had acquired as a prescription for her.
I can't help but notice that they digitally removed the injury on her head from falling on her face in the movie from the same shot in the trailer. I don't see it likely they added these injuries digitally in post. I was pleasantly surprised they were going to those lengths to hide such details of the movie in the trailer
It's possible it was another take of the scene without the makeup and whatnot, but I agree. I like both the movie and trailer but they convey very different tones.
Good analysis of a brilliant film. One note: Lydia’s brother Tony has a NYC/outer borough accent (likely Staten Island) rather than a Southern one.
Certainly not southern, nor is the architecture particularly southern.
Staten Island
Another movie plot question: Was the screaming that Tar heard in the park real (or in her head)? Whose screams were they, if real? Not sure how they tied in. Was it her guilty conscience catching up with her.
I can’t recall the timing, but were those screams some sort of premonition to Kristas suicide?
@@waffleweave There's that, and then there's the general idea of sounds she hears yet cannot control, which means her power isn't limitless.
@@waffleweave I definitely thought of it like a banshee
It was in her head. The whole last third of the movie was her nightmare. None of that stuff really happened. She was dreaming it.
@@waylonjenninzwait so she doesn’t go to Thailand? So we’re does reality end and are you saying the attack on mark strong was also a nightmare?
The final dream sequence was of Lydia sleeping in a standard bed in the center of a body of water out in the Amazon forest, with some branches above her. In particular, there's a long branch dangling over her, precariously held up. Suddenly, her chest catches fire on the spot right below it, then the dream ends, merging seamlessly back into reality.
To me this was unmistakably a reference to the Sword of Damocles (which indicates impending doom), with the branch as the hanging blade and the spreading flame a symbolic indicator that it had finally fallen onto her. Interestingly, this dream indeed marked the transition point in the film where everything begins to fall apart for her, rapidly leading to her complete destruction. This dream sequence is a subtle nudge for those aware enough to grasp it, to brace themselves to realize that everything for her was about to go completely downhill. The metaphor works profoundly well for her story and character arc, and as the person in the position of power under constant threat, she is surrounded by a moat of water, just as described in the original Roman allegory.
I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet - not in any review or comment about the film I've seen so far. Am I the only one who noticed this, even that it's a reference to the Sword of Damocles?
Or was it the fruit-bearing branch that hovers over the head of Tantalus? He was punished by the gods for his overweening ambition by being made to stand in a pool of water beneath said branch, both sources of nourishment receding before his desperate grasp.
That still leaves the fire that breaks out of her chest. Maybe the fire Prometheus stole from the gods, in punishment for which he was bound to a rock so that an eagle could tear out his liver daily.
This nightmare is a gruesome mashup of half-remembered stories and experiences. Mahler was plagued by similar night terrors and expressed them eloquently in his music.
Ken Russell made a crazy biopic of Mahler that used hilarious nightmare sequences, like Mahler in a windowed coffin being fed into a cremator while Alma and Gropius in a nazi-like uniform dance a Totentanz.
Great comprehensive analysis and insights here. Lydia’s ethnographic work in the Amazon is another fascinating angle of the film. Ayahuasca is used by the Shipibo-Conibo people in rituals, and abstract geometric patterns created under the influence are used in handmade designed items and works. I think possibly, on a trip there Francesca mentions when she delivers the suicide news, her Lydia and Krista experienced a ritual and the geometric pattern motif we see was created then… there is definitely a metaphysical/cosmological, hallucinogenic undercurrent in the film.
Whoa.
I think the black and white photo in Lydia's rehearsal apartment might be a photo of Shipibo-Conibo person standing behind Lydia in an ayahuasca ritual.
@@jonsrecordcollection7172 I noticed she has a few self portraits of that style hung up … plus the way she lights and extinguishes the candles with a small chant was also very interesting
Well spotted! That sounds very plausible
Her behaviour and level of ego doesn't strike me as that of someone who has taken Ayahuasca nor would it be the sort of thing to do just to look good based on her profession.
Her brother called her Linda indicating she had changed her original name in her quest for a “better” identity:
The fact that she was taking the same medication as her wife, in secret, showed that she she was trying to keep herself and even her physical responses under control as well which ironically highlighted just how much she was barely holding it together
This movie does address cancel culture, that's what that puts her career in danger... However, Lydia doesn't "go down" because people know she has a questionable character, mass criticize her and because of bad rumors... She goes down because she doesn't play her cards right. There's an implication of how if she had trusted her wife and followed her advise/made decisions with her on how to proceed... Or if she had given her assistant the promotion she wanted instead of hiring someone else for the job... Or if she had been more honest with her lawyers and followed a better strategy/maybe done a plea deal... She could have gotten away with her actions... The problem is that she is a control freak and thought she could resolve everything by pretending nothing happened and avoiding the issue, she was trying to bury everything instead of dealing with the problem head on... And the stress she goes through, trying to control everything by herself, while losing control of the events... Makes her explode, her repressed anger/fear comes out and she does something stupid: she assaults the other conductor who was replacing her, in front of a lot of witnesses. She also loses her wife's support/her wife separates from her because she's a danger to their family... In other words, she loses her career not because students hate her online but because she loses support from her colleagues/her peers and because she was probably prosecuted for trying to harm the other conductor... And because her ex-assistant provides evidence to the police... She loses everything because she's not able to trust anyone, for refusing to deal with the problem head on, and for commiting a crime in front of an audience. She loses her mind (temporarily) and makes more mistakes.
Wow, lots of insights here, but I think your best one is the one you make about the credits played at the beginning of the film. I remember thinking that was interesting when I was watching, but I completely forgot about it and forgot to consider its significance by the time I'd reached film's end. Great catch!
A lot of Letterboxd reviews interpreted the argument with the college student as the film being anti-cancel culture, but I think the film is actually more "pro" cancel-culture (sort of) - the thematic thread I picked up was that the movie wants to problematize the very concept of separating the art from the artist. I think it wants to make a case for taking a step back and examining the relationship between art and artist and the way artists' nature inevitably influences their art and subsequent accomplishments.
But, I think they could've done this in a clearer way. It's a bit murky because we only see things from Lydia's point of view, we get no objective perspective from which to draw our own conclusions, so we're not able to take that step back and analyze the art - artist relationship ourselves. I think that weakened a lot of the dramatic punches in the movie overall but I still sorta picked up what they were putting down
TLDR: I think she lost that argument with the college student simply by refusing to engage with the idea that there is indeed a relationship worth examining between art - artist - audience
I can see more ambiguous “neither of them were right” takes, but saying she lost when she brought up two very good points (how bad is bad enough to dismiss and how similar does the student have to be to the admired work for it to be acceptable) makes it weird to say she lost imo.
My personal take is that we just need to acknowledge that human beings are complex, and that there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that something great came out of someone generally terrible (ie Rosemary’s Baby, one of the most successful feminist horror movies coming from Roman Polanski).
@@thrawncaedusl717 To be clear, I think Todd Fields is fumbling the point he wants to make with that scene.
I think the intention was to imply that Lydia Tar lost the argument by focusing on things like setting a benchmark for an artist's "badness" and setting a benchmark for identity, instead of engaging with the idea that humans, their art, and the way we choose to interpret art are all complex and gradated.
She immediately responded to the query with an attempt to create a black and white world-view of good and bad, which I think Todd Fields sees as "losing" the argument
@Edwin Hmmm that's interesting... the only thing is that I feel like her argument with the student (that you should separate the art from the artist), actually lines up with her actions. She knew that what she was doing was fucked up, but I think she lived her life hoping that should her wrongs ever come to light, they wouldn't stain the legacy of her art
"A lot of Letterboxd reviews..."
Well, that's your first mistake, expecting thoughtfulness and nuance from that community.
No actually the student lost the argument at the point he calls her a “fucking bitch” because she’s a woman telling a man something he doesn’t want to hear. When she proves him wrong he loses it and calls her a misogynistic name, exposing himself as a huge hypocrite
I don't see the ending as a failure. You see that she is expending as much energy and passion in studying and learning this 'lowbrow' music as she does with Mahler. As a musician myself, I get it. Her only real love is the music (NOT herself, as many here are saying); making music is the only thing that matters--no matter what, no matter where.
But at what cost?
Yes, but cheap music for a video game. What a downfall!! 😢
@@catherinecozzano2580 well, Mahler's music was criticised for decades for its use of "trivial", lowbrow, popular music
@@catherinecozzano2580 You wouldn't say the same for a movie score, why is it different for AAA video games?
I also find it odd that Todd Field claims Lydia loses the argument with the student. I’m not sure it even qualifies as an argument. It’s more like scolding and then rhetorical questioning. I think the student barely speaks.
I think the fact that Lydia responded to the very query with scolding and rhetorical questioning 'proves' the student's point in a way
I think that is Todd Field trying to prevent any backlash.
Yeah I found that interesting. I didn’t think it was really meant to be an argument that had a winner when I saw it, though by the end she is ofc subject to that scrutiny herself so maybe she loses it by being evidence that it doesn’t work the way she believes
I think it is in the context of the movie. She talks about the personal life not mattering but her personal life ends up affecting her and she even says she tries to interpret Mahler though his life history. Basically it’s a double standard and she’s being hypocritical.
@@crimsonrose Brilliant! 100% completes the thought of the film. Thank you. She went from conducting orchestras to doing a sountrack for a videogame yet she tried arguing that the life of an artist has no impact on their work. Very interesting.
I am a music student and I actually understand the ideas of Tár and agree with her up to a certain extent. I belive one must separate the Art from the Artist if one is to Judge the value of the art itself. Non the less, if the artist is a horrible human being one can stop himself from consuming the art not because you hate the work, but because you cannot allow yourself to suport his/her work. This is why at the same time in the debate Tár has with her student I am actually on her side. Bach did many years ago and his art is something woth respect and admiration.
Separating the artist from the art itself is a very interesting point that Lydia makes however it shows that she herself cannot do that. She is so focused on upholding an image and reputation because she is aware that separating the art from the artist is not easy. And as far as canceling her goes I just shows that she also resorts to a similar tactic like what she did to Krista. So what I take away from the movie is that she's basically a pseudo intellectual maestro type that cannot separate her troublesome lifestyle and clearly a shallow one so much that she is hyper focused and I'm keeping an image and she doesn't care who she tears down to uphold that image. Which in turns just proves the point or disproofs a point that she try to make while she was having that debate with the pupil that does not like Bach.
Thanks for your take on this movie. I agree that there will not be one opinion about the lead character, even from a single person who will find positive and negative parts of Lydia. I went into the movie knowing very little about it. I found Lydia admirable at the beginning, a gifted artist who was expounding for the separation of the artist's work from their life in a convincing mannner, and not taking any special treatment for her gender. Gradually though, you find that Lydia is ruthless and ambitious and has carnal appetites that she indulges using the power of her position. Her revulsion of her neighbor's dying mother, and drawing back as the body is taken away from the house, spoke to me of her fear of dying and denial of eventual weakness and death that comes to us all. Her massive ego is deflated when the neighbors's relatives ask her what hours she is playing her music; she thinks it is because they love it (because she's a great composer) when in actuality they're trying to sell the apartment. She reacts by a vicious rhyme that she sings at the top of her voice; she can't imagine other people's problems getting in the way of her artistry.
Also, a very nice detail at about the 3rd quarter of the film- when Lydia is boxing, the tempo at which she hits the bag is the EXACT tempo of Mozart’s ‘Eine Kleine Nachtmusik’. Really small, but really effective.
When she goes home, her brother calls her "Linda" -- an ordinary, unglamorous name which shows us who she was, as much as the modest house around her.
The maze is not a “random doodle” but instead a pattern used by the Shipido-Conibo tribe in Peru. Tár, Krista, and Francesca all went to Peru together, and though they do t say what they did, I’m assuming did a bunch of ayuhuasca together (as it is very common in the tribe) and also learned about the tribe (and it’s patterns - on the book, on krista, on the haunted metronome)
thanks so much. English is second language to me and I watched this without closed caption device, which ultimately leads to my poor understanding of the movie. This video really solves several of my problems.
I found it funny , hwr step daughter , she believed her , about her classmate bulling herr, but she learn later on in the movie, she lied about being in her den, but Lydia totally believed her without any doubt , and verbally attacked the classmate. Kinda how the society attack her without knowing the story
That's a nice detail I didn't pick up on.
Agreed, that's a mind blowing comment! great perception.
How do u know she was lying?
Patra told the truth. She sought sanctuary in her "father's" study. Patra loves Lydia more than Sharon... her dolls were arranged like Lydia's world. How could Sharon step between them at the school? Sharon was wrong. Children do not sexualize or politicize relationships. The world [Lydia] is innocent.
@@jonathankr yes I wonder when she realized that
Great analysis, I think you were pretty spot on. Excellent point on the opening credits, very clever, that does feel like the filmmaker's intention. I came here to see if there was something I missed, due to some of the themes and events being ambiguous. I think you're correct though, the ambiguity is a huge part of what the movie is saying. Life is ambiguous and there are good arguments and things to think about for these different subjects.
The patterns that we see associated with Krista look like the art of the Shipibo Conibo people who we know Tár visited with Krista and Francesca from Francesca's dialogue regarding traveling up the Ucayali with them
All of what you say rings true to my experience of the movie, but I love that you picked up and weighed in on some of the things I had noticed, but hadn't quite known what to make if, such as the reverse order of the opening credits. This was one of the most powerful movies I have seen in some time, and your analysis brings such clarity to reactions I had that were still not fully formed. Thanks so much for lending your brilliant insights, which I'm going with, almost 100%, and for doing so in such an unpretentious manner.
There's an interesting conflict between her fixation on separating art from the artist and her convinction that, to unlock the intent behind Mahler's Symphony 5, she has to dig deep into his relationship with Alma... 🤔
I found it interesting that in the master class scene the composer of the piece is not revealed. Had our young bi, poc hipster selected a piece by a fellow bi poc? Lydia is obviously unimpressed by this piece and riffs on the themes of meaning and feeling and how to communicate them in performance.
My experience in working admin side of orchestra is that the pieces of work like Harry Potter or even Nightmare Before Christmas are the best selling concerts, it’s very accessible and often people’s first time at the symphony.
great analysis. watched this movie twice already and will continue watching it for years to come. a modern day masterpiece
As someone in the art industry I read the film in such a different way it is very interesting to see how people are interpreteting the film totally different. Great Video, about a masterpiece of a movie.
Could you explain how you, as an artist, saw it? I'm very interested, since I don't know anything about that world, and I would like to see how much the experience changes.
Just finished the film couple hours ago. I think she was made to be hypocritical and really shallow during that opening argument. She makes a whole speech about how art/music is it’s own thing that is full of emotion and that one must only regard the aim of the creator because that’s how we can appreciate it. And while the character is fictional the world in which she lives in is not. The film is a constant reminder of the now, the me too stuff, the pandemic and so on. So, when she idealizes art this way, literally literally the entire weight of human history has her looking a fool. She’s a woman in her position that doesn’t appreciate the history that has her in power and her students as, well, her students. Can we really say that we(humans) have been evaluating and appreciating art for its pure emotion and intent, or can we say that the art world reflects the economic, ethnic and racial relations that gives us even this very film!?
She can speak about how she can evaluate art apart from the creator because it’s that view which has gotten her in power by virtue of a history completely, materially counter to her shallow perspective.
At the end of the film we are taken through a sort of afterward. She’s away from her institution in which she was so powerful. And there are great(well written) moments but my favorite is when she’s on the boat.
She says she wants to go swimming but the guide tells her she can’t because there are crocodiles. He further explains that these animals escaped and survived even after so many years from a Marlon Brando movie.
Beautiful, powerful art has an impact beyond the intent, and the effects can last years and years. It’s a privilege to comfortably evaluate art for its aesthetic value alone, while on the other hand locals can no longer swim in their river for fear of death.
Edit: grammar.
Nice detail!
I spent most of the first few decades of my life listening to and loving music without knowing anything about who created it, or how it was produced. What could be a more authentic way to evaluate the character and merits of a work of art than than to evaluate it without being prejudiced by the identity or personal history of its creator?
@@MarkLeBay no piece of art is so privileged as to be immune to the influence of its creator and it’s time. We can’t afford to think of art this was anymore.
@@R3dTi3nJ3ans I listen to Moonlight Sonata and I cry.
@@MarkLeBay and you’re entitled to your opinion as are we all.
Your ideas and ending explained are on point for "Tar", I especially liked your analysis of the credits rolling backwards at the beginning of the film which if you think about it makes the movie title "Rat". After watching this "riches to rags" film last night, it left the impression on me that anybody in today's society can be cancelled and we no longer live in a society that can separate the art from the artist. The scene in the massage parlor is especially powerful as she chooses from a room full of young Asian women and selects #5 which would be her next disposable play thing and she realizes this and after leaving vomits in the streets. The closing scene really hammers her downward spiral as we see how far Lydia Tar has to go to escape her reputation and the work that is left available for her to do. I expect Cate Blanchett to receive many nominations and awards for her strong performance as Lydia Tar.
Don’t forget that scene in the parlor has double meaning besides her sick fetish of grooming younger women that scene she also chooses number 5 the Mahler symphony is number 5 and she’s never been able to complete it. The obsession of the crazy/genius artist
The other thing is that the ladies are arranged as an orchestra with No.5 in Olga's position.
I love this movie so much.
Wasn’t the pill she gave Sharon from Lydia’s own pocket? I thought Lydia had stolen her meds for herself
Lydia did lose the argument with the student she berated just not in that scene. She lost the it in a conversation she had with her older college she had dinner with. In that conversation she is appalled to discover her colleague is a nazi sympthazier. That when she cant defend separating the art from the artist.
I enjoyed how lydia engaged other characters. She spoke as if her opinions and order she had created were a matter of fact. She paid no attention to other’s reactions its almost like solipsism. Another scene i like is how she hurt being chased by an animal but says she was attacked by a man. In a way she was trying to grasp anything sympathy she can while she loses control of her life.
The student was a weak minded hypocrite and misogynist. He says he can’t play Bach because Bach was a misogynist. Then when Tar tells him some facts that he doesn’t want to hear he calls her a “fucking bitch,” thereby exposing HIMSELF as a misogynist and hypocrite.
Lydia isn't discovering that a current colleague is a Nazi sympathizer. She is eating lunch with Andris Davis, her (fictional) predecessor as head conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic. They are talking about Wilhelm Furtwangler, a real-life person who was conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic from 1922 to 1945. As referenced in Lydia and Andris's conversation, Furtwangler never joined the Nazi Party, refused to give Nazi salutes, wouldn't conduct the Horst Wessel Lied (basically, the Nazi version of the German national anthem), or write Heil Hitler, but he was removed as head of the Philharmonic after World War II during the postwar de-Nazification process because he never left Germany during the war & that was enough to make him look complicit with the Nazi regime. (Please note I had to look up the screenplay & Wikipedia to figure this out. Part of the realism of the film is how they weave in fictional composers and musicians with references to real historical composers and musicians.)
The pill she "found" was from a prescription that she was taking for herself though it was intended for her wife indicating her astronomical selfishness.
Best review so far! Greetings from Brazil!
Great analysis. I think people tend to mix up conductor & composer. In the film is presented more of a comment on her career as a conductor.
Like, she’s seen composing a few Times. But the philosophy and ideas she talks in the film are that of a conductors.
Her assistant (name Franscesca?) is the one who calls her "Rat"; the assistant was turned down for promotion (itself an act of revenge by Lydia after, and in part, for not deleting the incriminating emails).... She has just quit after setting up Lydia to be destroyed in the deposition, and abandoned the apartment where Lydia finds the "Rat" document. Lydia's sabotage/suicide victim lived in NY; this apartment is in Berlin.
I found it strange how she literally put everything on the line, rearranged the orchestra, got people fired, just for this one woman - it was so delusional. And in the end, she didn't even get the woman - which was refreshing and funny. I had a boss sorta like this, she was rather annoying. The scene of Tar telling the cellist "I'll meet you downstairs in 30 for dinner," she was being rather direct and the woman responded "No, thank you. I'm jet lagged and will go to bed," only to find the woman went out on her own. I've done that before.
I disagree when you say Lydia loses connection with music at the end of the movie. She never loses connection with music, she very clearly loves music very deeply and never stops taking her job extremely serious, no matter the size of the orchestra or the audience. That's her one redeeming quality: that her skill doesn't come just from talent but from genuine passion for her art and serious dedication. I don't think there would be anything worst for her than not being being able to play music. She's already rich and has achieved almost every accolade... Even if she couldn't continue to work on a prestigious orchestra, she could just retire and keep composing as a hobby even... But, no, even if she has to move to a foreign country with a very different culture and work for an amateur orchestra in some fan event sci-fi movie... She still choses to keep working as a conductor. Most people of her stature as a musician would care too much about "not degrading themselves" to go back to work with an amateur orchestra. She loves music, and after she has lost everything she cares about (her reputation and her family), performing music live is her only solace and probably what keeps her going... What keeps her sane.
Thanks for your analysis. I enjoyed "Tár" very much but had questions and need to see it again. Your analysis helped me work though some of the fog.
There is A DETAIL I saw in the movie - a lady sitting in Tar&wife bedroom at night. You can see her at about 1h 57min in the film, when Petra screems "Lydia!" and Tar gets up from the bed. Pause that moment and you will see a woman sitting in a dark room. I think she has light red hair. What do you think about it??
Maybe the patterns on Krista's face are reminiscent of the people that Tar spent time in youth. This was supposedly a more spiritual time for her in which she gained some awareness towards her music. Obviously if she ever learned anything there she's lost it. Also it may be to show that Krista is in a spiritual realm.
I'm from west Africa Mauritania, and my family name is Tar as well, glad to see my family name and cousin on the big screen.
I loved this review so well put. I thought it was usual to have opening credits in this day and age and I really liked your insight into it. I didn’t even register the fact it was reverse order
Women are just as capable of greatness as well as horrific actions as their counterparts.
The massage room scene has more to tell, I think. Did Lydia throw up because she realised the path her behaviour and 'preferences' were leading her, or was it the fact it was No. 5 that looked at her (as in Mahler's 5th)
I think it's because that was Olga's position in the orchestra
It seemed that the experience crystallized the truly transactional nature of her relationships, and the realization of that, sickened her.
My initial thought was that she was appalled when the woman called the selected masseuse by her numeral, as opposed to calling her by her name or maybe an Alias. She called her “#5”-l thought that that grossed Tar out, as it was a dehumanizing moment, like their slaves or smthng
One point I haven't seen discussed a lot is Lydia's claim, made early in the film, that “you’ve got to sublimate yourself, your ego, and, yes, your identity." This appears to me to be major foreshadowing. Is she sublimating herself at the end? If so, is she doing it willingly or has she been forced?
There is a lot of talk these days about how white, patriarchal society demands sublimation but can the other end of the philosophical spectrum demand sublimation too? Who has the power in Lydia's world? There's a lot of talk about the power she herself wields but what about the power that is wielded against her? What happens when someone's identity is determined to be unacceptable?
I only watched the beginning of your video because I can't believe you missed what was going on towards the end of the movie when Lydia visits her childhood home. You can see that she came from a humble beginning in contrast to her current stature ad wealth, I definitely understood the man she talked to to be her brother because he said to her - the "mom" said you'll be here, but more importantly he called her "Linda" and then said, oh sorry, Lydia. That tells us a lot that she tried to invent a more sophisticated identity or even background for herself in contras to what seems like her real background which seems working class.
I just saw the movie a few minutes ago- the apartment she went into and saw the doodles and TAR / RAT wasn’t Krista’s.. it’s Francesca, her assistant, whom’s name she calls out
I liked this film way more than I thought. I did see the people involved in the film thought it was clear the student "won" the debate with Tar, when the audience, including myself with no preconceived notions, clearly saw it as Tar really destroying the student. It is actually a meta example of the very things the movie is examining. Where if you live in an echo chamber, you can think something is not what others see at all. Even in Tar's comedown, it is because of a video of that confrontation that was intentionally edited to make her look bad. It came across to me as students clearly in the wrong trying to wrongfully cancel her by lying just because they do not like her opinions that the classic composers are superior.
I actually think most came away from the movie thinking it was a much more nuanced view of sexual harassment and "cancelling" people than even the people writing it thought it would be or was. It did present the almost unchallengeable ways people in power can do something for sexual attraction and power and have it be almost impossible to prove. On the other hand, many of the women used by Tar are really kind of using her too. Olga and Tar's wife both show this. The movie further complicates it by having a movie in this setting with a lesbian lead character, which could also lead one to think she got away with what she did, like Ellen Degeneres, because of people's hesitancy to challenge a renowned female gay person in a position of power.
In the end I really liked this movie a lot and gave you a lot to think about. The one big minus though is the comments made by the creators, who maybe did not realize the presentation on screen was as nuanced and complex as others saw it. I think if they knew ahead of time what the reaction would be, they would have made the abuse more obvious which would have ironically made a worse movie.
black swan + whiplash kind of vibe. 8.2/10
The ending was odd to me considering the fandom of video game music being as big as it is. Video game compositions are very big and the fact they tried to make monster hunter worlds music seem like a punishment just felt like a slap in the face. The music in that game is beautiful and sure it's not the grand theaters she was used too or the fancy dressed crowd of her past but they have orchestra performances for these soundtracks full concerts of just the music as a celebration. That felt like a dig at gamers rubbed me the wrong way. But her professionalism as she took her place was moving almost like a new beginning
I know what you're saying, and I initially had that thought as well. However on pondering it a bit more, I simply think it's meant to be a stark contrast of Tar's grandiose knowledge and former position as a top-position traditional composer. At the beginning interview of the film, she goes to great lengths to discuss the intricacies, aspects, etc. of classical music in its traditional sense. There is painstaking time spent on choosing her outfit, the setup of the interview venue, coordination with her team, etc. This is all done in an attempt to look as elegant as possible.
Suddenly, by the end of the film, Tar has no choice but to submit herself to a type of classical music that is abruptly different and less "elegant" than what she has built her career/image based on. There is less elegance and infrastructure around her in this country to do things for her. She herself, I would have no doubt, does not feel prideful in participating in music for video game media. Rather than painstaking lengths to have tailored, ironed, groomed attire, she has a far less polished orchestra with an audience full of cosplayers.
I don't believe it's meant to be a mockery of Monster Hunter or video game culture at all. The contrast serves to question the motivations for Tar's formerly top-level prestigious position in Berlin; whether that was based on her original love for music or gaining/abusing power. And, in effect, shockingly highlights this difference in music platform.
@@jthecool9225 the fact that video game music isn't top tier is the issue its looked at like a down grade. It's just different music it's about what it brings to u as a person and I think the fact it's looked at as such a fall is the disrespectful part. I get it to her it seems like that but music especially in game media is designed to heavily impact your feelings.
@@alexvazquez5087I think it’s looked at as a downgrade from her perspective
Its also intresting that the audience are dressed as 'monsters' echoing the themes of who is really blameless.
@@HiveMind629 Similar to film music, which can be inspirational and creates "joy".
Fabulous commentary on the film. Best I have seen. Also as someone who believes love the art and don’t worry about the artist personality for the first time I have heard the other side presented in a way I can embrace. Again I am still sad that we have “lost” a lot of the work Tar could have done. The artist dies but the work is eternal. Congrats on your very insightful analysis. 👊🏽
Tar is the best film I've seen in ages. The combination of concrete imagery and moral ambiguity is amazing.
Thanks for the Discussion! I didn’t love the ending, so I wanted to hear someone explain their take on it. Regardless, there was so much to appreciate in the film. One of my favorite aspects were the very immersive “oner” continuous camera shots without any cuts.
me too I didn't like the ending :/
So I just came out of this film where I honestly cant help but reflect on it and compare it to events happening today. Yes of course the “Me Too” movement comes to mind with people like Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey.
But there is one artist who I cannot help but compare to Tar in terms of international fame and acclaim and wealth and power who I very much can see his life and career tipping over the scale to follow the path of Lydia Tar. That artist being Kanye West. A man who is one of the most famous rappers in the world and the owner of a very famous fashion brand being Yeezy shoes.
Of course in the news this week is that he’s recently been dropped from Adidas where he has lost $2 Billion in the span of 24 hours due to several antisemitic comments he publicly made and even the rumor of him almost naming one of his albums “Hitler”. Other brands such as Sketchers now refuse to work with him. His talent agency dropped him. His lawyer abandoned him. Twitter and Instagram have banned him. Stadium shows canceled. Completed documentary film on him shelved. And digital streams have plummeted.
I can’t help but compare the events of Tar and Kanye’s downfall to one another. An irony considering rap is the last music genre Lydia Tar would ever even consider listening to let alone create.
I dunno. I just wonder if anyone else feels as if my comparison is warranted.
Let alone. This film feels extremely relevant upon it’s release. Given how we are in real time watching an incredibly acclaimed artist fall from fame in a similar fashion to Lydia Tar.
Also very similar to what happened with James Levine, former conductor and music director of the Metropolitan Opera.
@@maryvallettakeith6146 When Lydia has lunch with Andris, her predecessor as head conductor at the Berlin Philharmonic, Andris says, "Thank God I never had to be pulled from the podium like Jimmy Levine ... or hunted like Charles DuToit." So that's definitely a reference to James Levine that was in the movie.
You are such a good reviewer. Really enjoyed your analysis and interpretation of the film.
Tar took her wife’s pills and pretends to find them, but she actually had them the whole time
She actually had them all and paid for a similar prescription.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:41 🎭 *Lydia Tar, the protagonist, emphasizes sublimating identity for art and power. She's a self-made success in a capitalist society, transcending her origins.*
01:37 🏡 *Tar's visit to her family's home highlights the contrast between her past and present. Her identity transformation is influenced by classical composers, shaping both her music and persona.*
03:02 💔 *Tar vehemently defends separating the artist from the art in a lecture. This belief, deeply ingrained, serves her well as it allows her to control her image and protect her power.*
04:14 ⚖️ *Tar abuses her power, manipulating and awarding young women in her orchestra. The orchestra remains silent due to fear, and she uses her influence to ruin careers.*
07:18 🔄 *The film explores the consequences of cancel culture, revealing how both Tar and Krista experience a form of cancellation. It delves into the broader impact on power dynamics within industries.*
08:39 🎶 *The final shot symbolizes the distance between Tar and her art. Forced to work in Asia on unfamiliar music, it reflects the consequences of her actions on her artistic expression.*
09:19 🌈 *Tar's music is inspired by her daughter, Petra, representing purity and love. Her cancellation raises questions about whether she lost her artistic flame due to her failure as a human being.*
13:00 🔍 *The film critiques not just cancel culture but explores how ego and pride lead to abuses of power. It emphasizes the changing rules of accountability in a world that no longer tolerates such behavior.*
14:23 🤔 *The analysis concludes by acknowledging varied interpretations and the film's aim to present a slow-motion fallout, observing a woman at the center of power dynamics and accountability.*
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The scene near the end of her watching the Bernstein VHS also gives away that much of her resume, which is stated in the opening scene of the movie, may be heavily embellished or even fabricated. She claimed to have been an understudy of Bernstein, but at the end you see she only watched his videos. It's suggested in some way despite her musical talent, she has conned her way to the top.
It should also be said Lydia Tar is somewhat modeled on or partially inspired by James Levine, conductor of the Met Opera, globally famous, whose career suffered a terrible and rapid fall after understudies he had sexually manipulated in the past came forward. He was fired by the Met, contracts broken off elsewhere, his reputation ruined. The parallels in the stories of Tar's and Levine's downfall are many. "Give me some eyes" is something Levine said to orchestras often. Tar says it during her onstage meltdown.
I agree with everything that you’ve said. However I think Olga was a replacement for Krista but smarter. Olga also used the relationship to advance herself. Since we are not sure of the dynamic between Lydia and Krista, we know Olga does not want a sexual relationship with Lydia but she knows that Lydia wants her. Olga is in fact a great cello player and she deserves a chance to play in great orchestras. But the way she received help from Lydia Tar is highly questionable. The societal rules ARE transactional, they always have been. Olga had Lydia drop her off some place near her home so Lydia would not know where she lives. Tar chose to exit her car in an attempt get closer and subsequently busted her face.
The problem is that new talent has to use tactics to maneuver the power players who are the ones standing in the way from goal attainment.
“Linda” failed to understand that hypocrisy can leave a person vulnerable to an attack by karma. Tar is a movie about a woman getting slammed and ghosted by karma.
What I took away from the film was about was, sometimes ambitious gifted people, in their ravenous obsession to be the best, can lose their joy and soul and forget what inspired them to enter this occupation / art / sport as a child.
Reminds me that of that Netflix Michael Jordan documentary.
Or in Hells Kitchen when Gordon Ramsey screams at the chefs for the smallest error.
That bit where she goes to her childhood home and watches the VHS. It reminds her that it should be fun. It should be from the heart. Not about who gets a solo or the political hierarchy of the orchestra or pretentious accolades and interviews.
But she got caught up in the elitist culture to get to the prestige of being the greatest maestro. And that mentality is what caused her to repeat the bad choices that eventually led to her getting ruined.
This career reset causes a form of confronting her sins and a rebirth.
By the end, you can see she's not ashamed of playing for cosplayers in the Philippines as Linda Tar would have. She has rediscovered her love for the art and Lydia Tarr is happy.
Spot on. I agree 100% about the ending. It's not a tragedy at all.
Her brother has a strong New York accent, not southern. If you glance quickly during the scroll past her Wikipedia page towards the beginning of the film, you can see that Tár is from Staten Island. She has very deliberately tried to distance herself from her blue-collar NYC upbringing.
It also explains how Tár would end up as a student of Leonard Bernstein's. Leonard Bernstein was a New Yorker for most of his life, because he both composed for Broadway and served as lead conductor of the New York Philharmonic.
I also think it's interesting how she didn't think that her gender played a role in her career, when I don't think the allegations against her would have completely destroyed her career had she been a man.(look at chris brown, louis ck, Brad pitt)