ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
Dayton Audio Surround Sound Speaker Final Thoughts
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2024
- My final acoustic measurements and thoughts on this surrounds speaker using Dayton Audio reference series parts and a hardwood enclosure. I really enjoyed this build, even though it took forever. I hope following along was enjoyable also.
Please share, subscribe, all that good stuff.
Absolutely brilliant!!! That is about THE most brutal review ever, and about your own project! At least we know in the future when you say you like something you really do! Genius.
I didn't realize you didn't like the tweeters or woofers. I think your craftsmanship was way above the bar on this one. NICE JOB!!!!
noahtheviking well, I liked them enough to continue with the project. I didn’t spend much. But there’s better options for sure. So why bother I figure.
I agree I prefer a larger woofer, 6-7". Efficiency and the ability to dig low are always worth it.
I'll name these the "Cincos" meaning fives in Spanish. Great job Ryan on these!
With some dsp you can make the frequency response of these speakers as flat as a pancake. Great build!
Would rather have the off axis flat as it is instead of trying to get the on axis flat and screwing up the off axis.
Plus they are surrounds
@@attainableaudio4533 ah yes of course I'm was merely implying that you can manipulate the frequency response, maybe get rid of the dips
@@xanderguldie 👍 I hear ya, just so many people think the flat on axis is the ultimate goal and don't realize the off axis can have as big an impact or even more so when you realize that in the non-near field more off axis can possibly be heard then then on axis
Thank you for your thoughts and honest approach
Awesome man, thank you for the honest review of the drivers!
Great project. Love your videos and approach to speaker building/designing
Name suggestion: Solid 5. Made out of solid wood, 5" woofer, seems like you rate them about a 5 out of 10.
Raymond Cooke I really like this name.
"The Nameless Dayton 5" "
The Shootin' Dutchman that’s about it at the moment 😝
I really like the look
Look really nice!
Name - MEH5
Bradimus1 hahahha! Yes, that should be it!!!
Honestly with the low efficiency and the small woofer, I'd use these for computer speakers but ported would be better for that application. Beautiful build!
Maybe you should call them 'Beagle' because they are the size of that race of dog. Great video!
Hi Ryan, impressive response for such an economical design! Another great video, your analysis of the measurements is second to none and really educational and insightful.
A couple of requests:
a) what resolution/db increments are you using on the vertical of your graphs? On my screen it's difficult to read the vertical axis.
b) would you mind presenting the horizontal measurements using a Geddes style polar map please? The Omnimic software which is free to download from Dayton Audio is easy as to import your horizontal plots and with a single click present the polar. I find these very revealing of the off axis performance.
Keep up the great work! Cheers.
Maz 4bz I use 5db increments. The red horizontal line is 80db.
I do like polars and do find them useful. It’s an extra step I normally don’t bother with because it’s the same info, just presented differently. It is a better presentation though, so I’ll consider that in the future. Good suggestion!
Called it the thing.
Flower McFlower Face xD. But seriously-- Ponce? Sounds memorable and similar sounding to posh. From wiki on chamfer: Many city blocks in... ....street corners (curbs) in Ponce, Puerto Rico, are chamfered. Throw in a PR to make it sound more official. The Ponce PR speaker set.
Are you into tv panels? I currently have an older LED panel. The OLEDs are looking very appealing these days in price and performance.
You should do a tour of your audio gear.
Another reason for no port is the gradual phase change in bass relative to ported. When using an electronic crossover, not ported will crossover smoother due to smooth phase shift.
Would love to hear a sound demo of them!
I remember when you tested the midwoofers they were a bit off in T/S parameters and one rolled bellow 300Hz when you measured them free field - maybe good idea you put them in the closed box.
So, the tweeter isn't as good as, say SB ring dome, which is a 10-15 bucks more, and the dip at 4k is even in data sheet. Inefficient, ya small, sucky midwoofer, well, maybe other ones would have 2dB more. But, the enclosure looks really good, shape is nice, no square edges - no way you could get something close to them at BB or other store even at twice the price, not with cabinet like this, so don't complain. I know, we all do that. It's OK speaker - many factory made ones measure worse.
I forgot to add something - some two months ago I did free field measurements with my old Clio, well I can say that the ring dome SB is toughest tweeter I ever used. Forgot to limit the low frequency limit and the sine sweep started at 10Hz w/o crossover. My eyes almost popped out when I saw the the dome moving some 3mm p-p. It survived the sweep no problem - no demagnetized neo motor, everything measures and sounds fine. So, adding to your tweeters test - it's a good product, other than some Fs and other inconsistencies in production samples.
"Dayton Impulse-123 5S-RSTF4W8-2000"
5S- 5" Surround
RS- Reference Series
TF4- 4 Ohm Silk Dome Tweeters
W8- 8 Ohm Woofers
2000- Crossover Point
vscfalcon now we’re talking!!!
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Kept it in line with "something that makes sense technically." 😁
Or if you wanna keep it light:
"DARS Impulse-123 BBSK-100"
-$100 Best Buy Speakers Killer 😛
Impulse RS .. For the RS drivers and also for Real Surround.
Thanks for honest evaluation :)
Beautiful woodworking! Your lack of enthusiasm about them really shines through lol.
Did you suspect how inefficient they'd be when you started?
Russell Borrego haha ya wasn’t I just thrilled. They’re ok, but there’s better. They didn’t even match colour!
I didn’t think they’d be as bad as they are, but yes these small woofers just don’t put out much at 8ohm. Worse than expected though.
I really don't like the look of that tweeter. Looks like a massive pimple. But do you think it could benefit being rear mounted in a waveguide? That way it would look better too!
Torbjørn Svendsen probably would benefit from a waveguide but I’m not sure if there are any that are compatible. I’d just use a different tweeter like the SB29 which does really well in a waveguide.
The suck out near the crossover frequency might be resolved by connecting the HF unit out of phase. A common trick with some speaker makers!!
Michael Beeny I didn’t think there was a suck out at the XO frequency. Unless you mean as I move off axis vertically? But then if I reversed the tweeter phase there would be a suck out on axis.
"S31"
Surround Sound Speaker #1
That looks like a 3.5 inch mid range, not a woofer.
Wood work looks amazing!
Would a smaller box make the sound different ? It's a sealed box, so why no make it as small as possible ? Would be liter, easier to mount, and the bass would look as it came from a small speaker.
Would love to see more speaker builds!
Quetzalcoalt it probably could have gone in a smaller box, but how much smaller really when the wood was 1” thick and the drivers are filling the baffle dimension. This way the woofer can breath a little more and I could port if I really wanted to.
This time you did the measurements indoors, for other projects you did it outside using the ladder. How big it's the difference between the two types of measurements?
Name: Impulse S5 (surround 5inch)
i raul I like that name. Hmm. Might think about HT S5 for home theatre. That’s for the idea to work from.
For such a small speaker I can get away with it, but the data is only good down to about 120hz at best. My shop is pretty big allowing for a long gate time. Outside is better though.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers when you'll get more subs you should make a speaker kit an sell it. Some people might be interested for simple well designed stuff.
i raul I do some work with diysoundgroup.com for that. But not sure Id put this one on there. And I don’t have the time to sell kids on my own. Maybe speaker plans. I’ve thought about it but can’t find a way to do it that I like.
Call them The Dayton TWS
Two way satellites.
Well done man!
The off axis does'nt look to nice, but that is to be expected. I would love to see you design a Controlled Directivity speaker with a waveguide. Or a Constant directivity one with a horn. (Yes I know, horns and WG's are the same essentially but you get me haha)
Arnand de Jager most of what I do involves waveguides actually. I just haven’t shared many here. I’m a little surprised you don’t think the off axis is good. Aside from a bit of diffraction you wouldn’t know where the XO is.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Ah, if you could share more of that, I would really like that!
And you're right, I confused the vertical response with the horizontal off-axis. Indeed it looks good! No dips to be seen like in many B&W's speakers.
You are Great. Would you tell me what you do for a living?
Tommy Boom you’re pretty great too Tommy 😁 I’m a civil engineer for a small sized town.
Impulse Audio
😄 sorry for my Bad englisch but i really think that you are Great.
I always wanted to design my own loudspeaker. I am an eletrician and studied a few semester electrical engineering..
But i Never hab the real Motivation to Design my own loudspeaker until i ran into your Videos.
And here we Go
www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=267&thread=1092
My First Try on a loudspeaker.
A Bit of your effort to.
Thank you and keep going!
Tommy Boom excellent work. How does it sound?
Impulse Audio
Thank you.
It Sounds ok. For a speaker with very very cheap components its really ok.
Bit i like the Sound of broadbandspeakers therefore this F.A.S.T speaker.
Maybe you could do a F.A.S.T for a future project?
Tommy Boom I have done a couple FASTs in the past but not on this channel. I have a pair of Alpair 6 I could do one. That would be fun.
Dayton SS5
They really look a beautiful finished speaker. Shame you aren't that keen after the work you put in. Why not call them. Impulse Audio One!
RS-5 Surround
The off axis phase null is avoidable, you need to use a Linwitz-Riley 24db/oct crossover. Of course those are challenging to do passive.
Martti Innanen no it’s not. That XO type only makes it in phase in one spacial location. Outside that location the drivers slowly go out of phase. Doesn’t matter what type of XO is used. The only way to avoid it is to XO sufficiently low and/or place the drivers sufficiently close together. Which is basically impossible.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers www.rane.com/note160.html
The crossover type _does_ affect it, sorry. There's a reason why LR crossovers are used in practically all studio monitors where listening often happens off the vertical axis.
That's a pretty large/wide hump starting around 700 Hz. Looks like baffle step. I guess these speakers are going to be mounted close to a wall so you didn't trim it in the crossover?
Brian Steele I don’t generally practice the idea that closer to a wall means less baffle step compensation. I do my best to flatten it down to the same level as the bass, and find this sounds best with all speaker applications. Maybe a little less with nearfield applications. This was a very simple XO though and I didn’t get it razor flat. Not bad though for 5 cheap parts.
It's sad those Dayton Audio drivers did not perform so well because the end result otherwise turned out really great. I really like the woodworking you did on the cabinets. It does leave me with one question, what are good budget drivers? I myself have used SB Acoustics drivers (nrx woofers) in the past in a more budget oriented build and got great results. My units measured ruler flat apart from some baffle related anomalies. So for a future build I recommend having a look at some of their drivers.
PA5cAl1 yes I’ve used a few SB drivers and am always very impressed with the value. Very good drivers. These were ok, but there’s better options so I don’t recommend them when you can get better.
The maple spirits
Matt Sweitzer hey I like that!
"PULSE" or "PULSE-MINI" of course.
"PULSE-50" if they're 50 watts
"PULSE AROUND"
Hi, sorry I have a question unrelated to the video I'm new to speaker building and I couldn't think of someone better to ask. I've been looking online for hours and hours now and haven't found a concrete answer.
How do you determine the proper port diameter?
My project uses two Dayon Audio ND105-8 on a 0.70 cubic ft enclosure and I've got a 1.75 in diameter port I want to tune to 45Hz, but after doing a lot of research im not sure if it's the proper diameter. I've read about proper port surface area, length, tuning frequency but couldn't find information on how to connect that to each other to figure out the appropriate port diameter.
I would truly appreciate any help you could give me with this. Also, keep up the good work! I really like your videos since it goes more into the technical aspects of speaker building.
Javi J No problem about an off topic question. I haven’t done a video about box design yet, maybe I should. Generally my advice would be to use a box model program like WinISD or unibox. You can input all the driver parameters and then model the port size and tuning. WinISD is not very user friendly, but unibox requires excel. There are some other program options though. And I’m pretty sure there are some videos available how to use them. I have a few other things on my plate but I may do a tutorial or something.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Ill look into them, I think that would make for a great video! Thank you for your help.
Could you suggest books, ebooks or sites where it is possible to study about mesureament, speaker building etc?
Luca Mazzeo unfortunately there aren’t many good books on the subject. I think Floyd Toole’s books are really good. Not about speaker design but about what makes a good sounding speaker. This is important to know before you design something.
Are you able to help with crossover designs?
Sorry I can’t at this time.
Hidden bunny crouching axis.
good afternoon. tell me how you measure the impedance 00:56. and what program are you using. thank you in advance.
One Gogh I use WT3 by Dayton, which has been replaced and is now called DATS. There are a few different ways of doing it, including building your own jig and using REW.
You need to do a drop test !!
Where is that diffraction dip coming from with the edges around the tweeter rounded so much?
Paul Bjorngaard it’s hard to eliminate all diffraction. Some will still show up.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers, it looks almost as bad as it did in the test box with square edges. Just surprised it showed up that much.
Impulse 5.1 - 5 for 5 imches and 1 for 1 inch tweeter . . . . keep it simple
525's
Your thoughts on these vs the C Notes from Parts Express for surrounds?
Brooks McLaughlin Unfortunately I haven’t heard the c notes or know much about them. These are specifically designed as surrounds, so they might be better for that application. I understand the c notes use a waveguide so there might be poor vertical range which is important as a surround.
Is that a BBC dip in the frequency response? :)
Mihai C not intentionally but sorta looks like one. I personally don’t try to put a BBC dip in the response.
Hi Sir! What noise do you use for measure? pink or white?
aman533 it’s a white noise. But I actually prefer sine sweep. Sound Easy V21 doesn’t have it though.
tweeter is clearly too far from the center of the small woofer.. maybe a small morel tweeter and higher crossover point would have fix the vertical response and sound
lex Tr3 that’s the problem with these larger tweeters. But they do usually allow for a lower crossover and that helps with the vertical. Actually the vertical response is much better than most speakers out there. People rarely bother to measure it though.
I am familiar with the sweep sound of REW and Omnimic, but I don't recognize the one in your video. What measuring software are you using?
davefred3 It is SoundEasy V21. There are advantages and disadvantages to using MLS vs sin sweep.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers How do you like SoundEasy vs. REW vs. Omnimic for measuring? I have used REW and OmniMic and have considered getting SoundEasy for everything else it does as well.
davefred3 I don’t like it. It has a ton of capability but it’s very dated and painful to use. People will say it has a steep learning curve, but that was 10 years ago. Now it’s just dated and not even very compatible with new versions of windows. The software guy behind it just keeps updating it but it needs an overhaul.
@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Have you thought of upgrading to V24?
davefred3 no because I don’t want to waste any more money on this software.
Name it D5id :D
XDX5!!!!
To make all these measurements, the human ear does not listen to all frequencies, I think that in some cases it is good, but in a speaker made for music it is not necessary
guapodidier2099 I find measurements very helpful to show what I’m hearing for the viewer. I haven’t taken all possible measurements, but enough to give a good idea of how accurate the speaker is. The measurements show that this speaker will reproduce the recording fairly accurately.
NVG 5 (not very good)
Kelly Sandford 🤣🤣🤣
For a name, house about the "ehhhh". As in not great, not bad... Ehhh
YOU didn't buy those !
Sealed yuck