The scale & limitations you have in place for ships on your server makes sense and creates a balance that is hard to come by on just about every server I've ever played on. Most ships on PvP servers become turrets farms. Plus the way you implement "Hero Ships" makes sense, it give the various factions a "Boss Fight" Mechanic which they are required to overcome with shear numbers or better tactics.
I'm currently working with JD to improve and update the IMDC Fleet, this ship classification system would be a better fit for the new ships that will be added to the fleet. I see if I can get JD to adopt this new classification system. It would greatly expand the classes we currently have without having the block count skyrocket.
you forgot the frigates other vital role, something to shoot at to distract the enemy from your bigger more expensive ships, I know this isn't the real life use, but its how I use them, because I'm a terrible admiral.
Well as having served on and alongside U.S Navy frigates I can tell you that…your absolutely right any admiral worth his salt will throw his frigates in front of torps, bombers, missiles, or mines meant for his other more capable craft wich is typically why when you see a carrier group floating around they got three or four just floating around essentially there to be impromptu shields so the admiral can let his subs fighters and destroyers go to work hunting down and taking out whatever is trying to shoot his carrier
Its fun to remember what Frigates a long long time ago used to be classed as heavier than destroyers (called sloops or gunboats, depending on their role during the age of sail) and surved as independent warships that were quick of speed, well armed and armored. Its interesting that modern day frigates are a complete doctrine flip from frigates of old, from front line warship that tussle with everything up to a man o' war, all the way to rapid response ships of the modern era, man naval warfare is wild.
Yep! here's the secret; ship classification makes no sense. It's sorta arbitrary Sorta like the definition of what a rifle vs carbine is. It changes every 25 years as tech changes.
There was no such thing as a destroyer in the age of sail. They only came out with screw powered boats. Thats where the full name comes from. Torpedo boat destroyers. They were never smaller than frigates
@@Pathfinder118 just saying it again doesn't make it true. They are different ship types. There is no clear evolution from one to the other. Also there are still gunboats today
Saw this on reddit and thought to myself "what kind of outrageous classifications will this guide have". Glad to say that I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of thought put into this guide! It's nice to see some more reasonably sized and armed ships as opposed to the Warhammer-esque, turret-covered giants that seem to be the norm. I personally base my ship classifications on WW2 ships as well. The funny thing is that, apart from a single outlier, most of my ships can keep their classifications if I were to classify them by your guide, at least when it comes to block count.
I hope all factions on the server eventually post their designs on the workshop. I’d love to get a look at them & see what concepts I could add to IMDC designed ships.
It's interesting to see how my ship design philosophy nearly mirrors that of yours for our servers, which interests me deeply Corvettes don't see much use outside of large range recon and escort missions, and it's usually these ones that get designated the "hero" ship. They only get one normal weapon slot, but they have 2 PDC slots, 3 of the ship is unmounted with an FTL drive. I guess the modlist is to blame here, but fighters don't see any real use since the "meta" is shifted to PDCs over most other weapons. Dropships have weapons, but they're dropships to begin with. It's a big rule that "main guns" can't target small ships, and PDCs can't target large ships (but players, missiles and small ships are fair game) Destroyers are in the same boat as Corvettes, with the only real difference being they get a +1 to main guns and PDCs Cruisers are the smallest ship type that can have a shuttle bay, which everyone has utilized so far. They get a +2 to both weapon types, with the addition of normal/heavy cruisers mounting MACs in place of the shuttle bay Battlecruisers are a step up with a +4, and they get both MACs and a shuttle bay Battleships... don't really exist with my rule set. This is in part to the modlist, and the fact that the obvious weapon of choice for BBs can reach out to 60km, shredding heavy armor and vaporizing light armor. It's for this reason the entire class was turned into the battlestation, which is the only class capable of mounting said weapon, a whopping +1 to the ultra heavy main gun, but a +10 to PDCs Without fighters, Carriers don't see any use either. The class was changed out for Support ships, which have the ability to allow ships unable to dock at stations to dock with itself. This little oversight came to be when we realized none of us had adopted standardized docking patterns, so a large portion of ships were unable to dock at stations if they were cruisers or larger This has the benefit of making support ships the most prized possession of a faction that has one, because there's only one, and they only get that one because they don't have many (or any) station compatible ships It's also temporary: combat happens often enough that a standardized docking pattern has to be agreed upon, or these factions will push themselves into a self-checkmate, which is always interesting to see play out
just a small historical correction, a Battlecruiser was a Battleship size ship, with cruiser level of armor designed to catch enemy cruiser forces and destroy them
'Theres always a bigger fish...' Whenever I make anything 'large' in a creation game, I always think that it's going to be my biggest ship. Then I see a video like this where i realise just how small the thing I thought of as a flagship is.
Very interesting guide. I find many classifications of the ships I've built roughly line up with the block counts for classifications as you've defined them. My one slight point of disagreement is with Frigates, I come from a bit older school of thought that Frigates should be your mainstay ship of the line, with destroyers being more specialized. for me this puts the Frigate right up around the 1500-2500 block count, with destroyers pushed into the 2501-3500 range. Maybe it's a doctrinal thing, but I feel Frigates should be doing the majority of the fighting and dying, with destroyers coming in as a scalpel to cut open the enemy line when the time is right. More of a glass cannon, if you will. That being said your system is definitely robust, and I find the use of point limitations interesting. Though probably not as enforceable on a pure survival server.
19:13 well a bigger hull allows for more versatility. The kind of battleship you described would be similar to a dreadnought style BB. Many battleships had a good amount of secondary armament to destroy lighter ships.
I always enjoy watching videos discussing ship classifications, as it really scratches my itch for naval-related content, and I've also enjoyed binging your Space Engineers content even though I've never played the game before, so I think you've convinced me to pick up the game (as soon as my wallet allows). (TLDR at the end) The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the discussion on how historical battlecruisers (BC) came about. Now, stating that a BC is a cruiser that's been crash-built as a small, cheap battleship (BB) isn't entirely incorrect, as there are a few historical ships/blueprints which might fit this description (albeit at a large stretch), like the Alaska, B-65, and Stalingrad classes, which were all planned in the late 1930s - early 1940s. But when looking at battlecruisers built before 1918 (which is when the majority of BCs were built), it's not entirely correct either. Basically, BCs started off as some British guy saying "What if we had a cruiser that could run down and shit on all the other cruisers?" This basically led them to putting battleship guns, a shit ton of engines, and cruiser armor on a battleship-sized hull, meaning that the price tag and build time of a BC was usually pretty similar to contemporary BBs. Unfortunately, because they had battleship guns, some admirals decided that BCs could be used against other capital ships with similar weapons, which had a rather negative effect on the long-term health of the people who fought at the Battle of Jutland. Some good historical examples of battleships vs contemporary battlecruisers are: HMS Dreadnought (1906) vs HMS Invincible (1907), SMS König (1914) vs SMS Derfflinger (1914), HMS Iron Duke (1914) vs HMS Tiger (1914), and HMS Revenge (1916) vs HMS Renown (1916). Also, when the Naval Treaties came into effect in the Interwar period, BBs and BCs were lumped together and therefore under the same limitations, so you couldn't get around the treaty restrictions on battleships by building battlecruisers instead. Then again, battlecruisers are an ill-defined a nebulous ship type which could be attributed to any semi-capital ship/capital ship with bug guns, and it gets even more complicated once fast battleships come into existence during the 1930s, and I've also cut a lot of facts/info in order to shorten this, so my rant can be treated as second-hand rumors, and you can and should take all of this with a large bucket of salt. TLDR/Conclusion: If you want your world/universe/whatever to define battlecruisers as cruisers that have been crash-built as small, cheap battleships, please do so! If you want to define them as small, fast battleships, do it! If you want to define them as big, heavily armed cruisers, feel free! A battlecruiser is a very nebulous ship type that can be used to describe basically any big-gun capital ship. That said, knowing the historical precedent before deviating from it is something that I find helpful in my worlds/universes/whatever, even down to specific ship types. These have been the ramblings of a sleep-deprived amateur naval enthusiast. Thank your for reading this far. I shall now sleep.
the explanation of Battleships reminds me of the evolution of the DNs and SDs of the Honor Harrington book series by David Weber, where they went from lead slingers to missile ships in the long run.
Been a hard thought on this over the years for SE. Hull size vs types. PCU vs block size vs mass… hard part of classification is that the weapon slot setup is awesome path you take. You have my Sub Captain.
I want to make a ship with an armored dorsal hull and four turrets sticking out the side capable of forward fire. Working in groups, they make an initial lancing pass, then turn to present their armor to the enemy as they circle around, laying down a barrage of fire. Shields and point-defense weapons on the ventral hull protect the more vulnerable ventral side.
Fun fact about battlecruisers. Back when they initially were developed by Jackie Fisher, he intended them to be cruiser killers. They were supposed to be well armed, with the same size of guns as the contemporary battleship, but usually less of them, and had enough armor to fulfill their mission profile, but not enough to be a part of the true battleline. The germans gave their battlecruisers better armour due to the lack of ability to match the Royal navyt ship-to-ship, so they decided that they would add the battlecruisers to the battleline if need be. But funny thing, due to needing more heavy machinery in order to be fast enough to run down any cruiser at the time, battlecruisers tended to be built physically longer than the battleships, and leading to them costing just about as much. So, that is what a battlecruiser is, a ship that is slightly less armed than a battleship in number of guns, but equal in size of guns, who sacrafices armor protection for speed in order to counter enemy cruisers. However, everyone who had battlecruisers would find themselves using them in fleet actions, despite the fact that from their inception, they were not supposed to do that, they were supposed to attack cruiser flotillas.
I’d utilise frigates mostly, but also have a Battlecruiser to be the centrepiece. My style of playing would probably be more defensive and hidden away from other to just manufacture, mine, process and design things.
at this point its looks make it more endearing, not less. And tbh, I think it's probably the most recognizable ship in the series dude to the amount of battles it's partaken in
Historical tidbits, battlecruisers (BC) design definition varied between nations, although they generally did fall into the definition you laid down. Battleship (BB) armament on a hull that was halfway between a BB and an Armored/Heavy Cruiser (CA). Doctrinally, the generally accepted definition of a BC was a ship that could destroy anything that could catch it (CL/CA) and outrun anything that could defeat it (BB), while being cheaper than a regular BB. The British and Japanese (who navy was heavily influenced by the British prior to relations souring after WW1) achieved this by taking a standard battleship and stripping down it’s armor for speed and cost (wildly simplified). The British would lose many BCs due to employing them like BBs, in fleet engagements against actual BBs. On the other hand, the Germans experimented with a lighter armament (28 cm/11 inch guns were definitely BB armament, but they were at the very low end of the scale) on well armored hulls. The Deutschland class was designated as a CA by treaty (in displacement), called a pocket BB by British propaganda, essentially embraced the doctrinal role of a BC. The Scharnhorst class carried the same sized guns (albeit with more of them) and was built on a BB hull fell somewhere between a BC and a Fast BB. Germany’s interwar-WW2 design philosophy was heavily influenced in that they had a smaller fleet than Britain and they did everything they could to avoid contact with the British heavy fleet. I’m not really trying to make a point and I’ve been rambling for a bit so I’ll stop here.
Theoretically BCs were intended to hunt down cruiser groups with speed and firepower, basically with the intention of killing stuff smaller than them, and fleeing from larger opponents.
I've long maintained that the easiest way to start a fight in a group of naval history nerds is to ask if HMS Hood is a battlecruiser. Hell the debate over what a battlecruiser actually IS has lasted far longer than the concept of battlecruisers at this point. My main point of contention with the description Brock gives is that it ignores the fact that while most battlecruisers did give up armor or weapons for speed compared to a battleship, that didn't always make them much smaller. Indeed several of them, British designs in particular, were LARGER to accommodate the massive engines they needed. And that's not even counting the Alaskas muddling things further with the concept of "Large Cruisers".
I remember when the classification was just how big or how many reactors you had in the ship. Love how the game is evolving but here we are almost 10 years later and still growing.
There is no such thing as size clarification. Size is related to current tech. Role based classification is actually quite simple: Battleships are literal flying bricks. Battlecruisers are somewhat mobile nests of guns. Cruisers are actually LARGE ships, what can serve as mobile base of operations. With rafinery and cargo space. Frigates are your default cheap base ships. You can spend long time with your team. Destroyers are heavy armed Frigate size prime combatants. Usually lacking rafinady or proper crew spaces. Corvettes basically are gunboats with jump drives. Only large enough to move between planets.
Hey loving both series 1 and 2 are these ships on the steam workshop by anychance for all us fans I also feel that the balancing for your ships are amazing as it looks awesome Keep up the great work its dope
This video is a year old :) I really enjoyed this video. What is your thoughts on fighters and carriers in your SE series? Has fighters lost their purpose to corvettes and frigates?
This was very informative. i have never known what catagorises a ship as a corvette or battleship, so this was enjoyable to learn. and leaving this comment to feed the alghoritme methingy :D
One thing to note - Your particular Corvette role description isn't really what corvettes are used for in either modern naval combat or in sci-fi, but rather what they were used for during the Age of Sail. Modern corvettes are sub-hunters and light combat vessels used for picketing and to support larger ships, while in sci-fi settings they've typically become a sort of anti-fighter screening vessel (although some are set up as either super-heavy anti-capital attack craft or fill the role of a submarine in space).
Hey man I just seen this video and I notice the 2nd corvette on the right is of a design I made many years ago. The fame is the same but with a couple of modifications. Nice to see it around still.
For me, I would kinda change the destroyer role as even lighter armor, good shielding, very powerful thruster packs and a very heavy focus on fast-firing turrets, high stealth, long scanning range, and large torpedos. The idea of destroyers would be when a fleet is engaging each other, they would flank using their low detection and fast speed to launch torpedos from a long distance to catch larger capital ships off guard. If they are behind cover, they can rapidly focus on turrets of larger capital ships or try to sever conveyors or thrusters. Or in exchange for less turrets, they could have more anti-missile defense to serve as effective missile screening.
ill be honest all i thought about when you mentioned the covette stealth was turning one into a sub. having the bare minimum block count a good range high accuracy weapon and one directional thrust so you come to range you rfir on the target then you angle off charge away so if they try to blind fire you they wont hit. poking the bears till they die
I got the Caelius class frigate and retrofitted it for the server I'm playing on at the moment, thinking like 'oh yeah I have this awesome new ship and it's huge! Then I see this and it's like... the second smallest in the lineup X'D
Another advantage of battlecruisers was they had over powered engines compared to similar sized cruisers, to compensate for the light armor, they were exceptionally fast, the idea was battle cruisers were able to out range anything that was too small to threaten them, but fast enough to run away from ships big enough to damage them.
Battlecruisers were just cruisers with battleship guns. That they were faster is because they didn't had the armor. It was made out of desperation than a concept.
I would like to know if there's a classification for "Monitor" ships: Basically a destroyer sized ship trading most/all of it's "weapon points" for a few large, heavy turrets. *It may probably not be really effective in pvp, as direct confrontation with bigger ships is still dangerous, but having a heavy punch for it's size. >Or just buying heavy weapons isn't an option unless it is a bigger ship?
yes actually, but it's more akin to aa short range torpedo destroyer. we call it the DDK DD with a 1000mm gun. It's very inacurate though so it's basically a thompson contender in ship form
Gunboats a support troops and bigger vessels could be too damaging. Corvettes one extension would be defensive rings, frigates can have this as well destroyers are generally are specialized as long patrol and defense and harassing unit.
Great context for your classification. Ships on the workshop are often overly exuberant exercises in creative mode fantasy, with corvettes bigger than your cruisers, etc. If this were a hypothetical real universe, I'd like to see the US-equivalent interstellar superpower with an economy to support "battleships" larger than that corvette. :P In SE terms, I'd like to see more than one of those 150k PCU ships loaded in at the same time, in a playable fashion. Their descriptions always include caveats about impact on sim speed -- so what's the point if the game can't handle playing with the ship? Lots of effort and cool aesthetics to be appreciated, but... not playable is not playable. :D I'll check your more recent videos to see how Warfare 2 has changed your players' usage.
some slight spoilers; it's mostly the same. Though Warefare II has pushed the power dynamic to the Light Cruiser which is a good middle ground against Destroyers, while being cheaper than a heavy cruiser
With my friends the difference between frigates and destroyers is although we have them at similar sizes, a destroyer must have torpedoes or guided missiles
If I remember correctly the UK and the US define battlecruisers differently. I believe the US says battleship guns but cruiser speed, ant the UK says battleship armor but cruiser guns. I could be misremembering it through.
So by your explanation. My Corvette and my first big ship is actually frigate. Because it can do everything has a refinery assembler and far firepower but is way smaller than the ones you show.
sure. this is just our system. Stuff like this works if everyone follows it. It's less so about grading other ships. The most powerful ship in the system after all would be a 1000-2000 block ship that ignores weapon limitation.
Destroyers would focus on firepower and speed and used for escort and harassment of larger ships, battlecruisers are essentially battleship sized glass canons, catch up to anything that they can destroy and outrun anything that outgan them
On an interesting note, while the Royal Navy goes Corvette, Destroyer(Type 42 destroyer Displacement: 3,500 long tons), Frigate(Hunter-class frigate Displacement: 9,800 long tons), Cruiser in size, the US Navy goes Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser. While historically in the age of sail Frigate is what we would call a Battlecruiser in a modern setting, smaller then a ship of the line but still a capital ship (see the USS Constitution). It just goes to show that even in RL the definition of ship classes isn't universal and one mans Cruiser is another mans row boat lol.
6th Gene: Welp looks like UNSC comes to a calling (Do find it a bit funny that dawn and Eternity are similar to UNSC Paris and Autumn class but flipped in roles. The Dawn while similar in look to Paris, differs in purpose with Paris being more of an artillery/fire-support destroyer, able to punch above its weight. Were as the Eternity is similar to the Autumn, but with a focus on volley firepower rather durability and one main MAC gun.)
Watched a few of your videos, and you have earned a sub. I'll look into your Discord server later, been thinking about getting back into SE. Just sounds like fun.
that is definitely a different take on ship classes, using block count over size... though if i can get both and still have a functional ship, then ill be happy... when i say size, i generally go by length, using current navy avgs for each class... this does mean that most of MY frigates and corvettes would fall under the stealth classification for your server... however, i actually have 2 size class groups i use to be fair.. the first one i've already mentioned... the second scale is "lets melt my GPU/CPU and build a ""to scale"" 40k sized ships... heaven forbid i actually start a battleship there because 10,000 meters at 2.5 meters a block is 4000 blocks long.. and forget getting those weapons to scale, both in physical size and correct ranges and damage outputs.... i still think about building such a ship from time to time... i think the longest ship ive even attempted to build was just over 300 blocks long... as for weapons.... well that beast was dreadnaught scale for sure.... i had broadsides consisting of 96x2 small gattling guns on each side... did a test fire once and after 3 seconds my machine froze for 15 minutes before it started catching up... on a new machine now.. but not ready for that kind of test again just yet....
Cool video, but you really missed the mark on defining irl battlecruisers. Battlecruisers were not cruiser hulls with battleship guns. Battlecruisers were often as large as or larger than contemporary battleships. What differentiated them from battleships was their relatively thin armor and much higher speed.
I like your definition of a battle cruiser, but battlecruisers, even in their day were still thought of as Battleships lite. One of the reasons that the High seas fleet took the mauling that it did at Jutland was precisely because battlecruisers sported less armor, but were pressed into frontline combat against more armored foes ( we won't even get to the terrible accuracy by the battlecruisers in that engagement).
A thought; Is their mine layers in S.E. if so is there a way to determine where a ship will drop out from hyperspace from a known starting point, thus laying mines so a ship entering an area has no (or little) time to avoid the field? ;-) If I heard correctly, with a 20 gun broadside ability (10 sec recharge between volleys), is it possible to stagger fire of 5 guns so when the 4th set of 5 guns (or 5th set of 4 guns) has fired the 1st set of 4 or 5 guns are recharged and can fire (however the math works out)? ;-)
As a thought experiment (speaking theoretically, with mass and armament taken into account) where would the main ships of the various SE TH-cam series' fit in the Outlands classification system? There's your ships, the Osiris and Sigma(AAAAAR)rious. LSG had the Mighty Weasel and Dora + whatever else the drones used. Capt. Jack's RWI Eclipse, Phantom, Discovery, Prometheus, and the Vengeance. W4stedspace's Vanguard (stolen movie prop) etc.
Osiris is technically a battlecruiser despite being originally classed as a guided missile frigate, the Sig is a frigate/AWACS/ELINT vessel, the Dora is the size of a heavy cruiser while filling the battleship role, the Execurtle fills the role of a super battleship, and the Vanguard is probably closest to a frigate or a Q ship
Is there a list somewhere of the weapon points for each ship? I'm trying to build a diverse fleet, but trying to classify ships based on how many weapons they have is about impossible. I can build missile corvettes designed to take out fighters but a missile corvette with 30 missile turrets isn't a corvette.
My choice is to basically make up classifications. Cut out all the sweaty business of needing to apply water ship classifications to space craft, in particular to classes which changed overtime anyway.
interesting, normally i'd say that pvp in space engineers would be like, cheesed 99% of the time, but, on the way you put it, with role play elements and forced rules.... yeah, that does get my attention now
It depends. In our series/server there are 5th gen, and 6th gen ships. If it was a 5th gen ships, the IMDC Europa Carrier would function as a escort, or light carrier. We don't really use carriers. Hence their exclusion from the list.
@@highground2320 yeh I agree. Would be like a hero class flagship with a few fighters and defensive weapons only. Since battleships on this server are limited to what 20k block limit would set carrier 25-35k block limit
Most effective way to deal with those ships is with large grid misiles. Hell you could just pilot them. There is nowhere near enough firepower to stop them and one hit and the biggest ship here is just gone. From a resourse standpoint that would be the most cost effective way. Any ship hit is going to need massive repairs and missiles can just be printed in under a minute.
What do i have when I got approximately 40 large grid blocks long dhip, which has artillery, 2 railguns, some point defence, some interior turrets, 1 max refinery with 2 speed and 2 yield modules, 2 assemblers with 2 speed modules each (ik its not best but i couldn't fit more modules) and 3 jump drives? Its also planetary capable when not fully loaded.
How long does it take a single person to build the smallest ship vs the largest, permitted? Does one person typically build the ships or do multiple people get into creative every week? I'm just a noob, but it takes me near a week of 8 hours game sessions per day to even get a 1000 block ship!
Everything is built in creative worlds outside the server, then admin spawned into the survival mode server for battles. As for build time... It varies. We have a few cracked-out speedhead builders who can crank out a heavy cruiser in a day, but they're definitely the minority.
Can you cover over larger capital sized ships like dreadnaughts and carriers, as well as hullers and different class-sized industrial ships? (in a different video and sorry for the late comment)
15:45 Not really, especially not if you look at purpose-built battlecruisers. Back during the Dreadnought era, ship designers could only pick 2 of heavy armour, speed or heavy weaponry. The British for example chose heavy weaponry and speed, giving up quite some armour with it, but they were still quite better armoured and a lot large than cruisers. The German chose speed and took a more balanced approach between armour and weaponry, but leaning more towards armour. As a result of that, their current gen battlecruisers often had the armour of their last gen battleships. Towards the end of the Dradnought era (so, about the end of ww1) a new type of ship came around, the fast battleship. Advances in propulsion made the problem of only really being able to choose 2 a lot less of a problem, resulting in battlecruisers becoming pretty much obsolete and afterwards nobody actually built battlecruisers anymore (well, at least nobody who classified them as such, but as another type (Big Cruisers, USA, they were in speed, armament and armour in the middle between a heavy cruisers and a battleship); with the exception of the USSR, but they did things completely different than every other navy anyway when it comes to classification (no, this ship is heavier than most navies' heaviest heavy cruisers and has stronger armament, it's not a light cruiser)).
It could be argued that HMS Dreadnought was actually a Battlecruiser. Considering that Fisher idea was not just the all big guns, but also that "Speed is an Armour on its own". It was basically meant to be a sniper ship, even if it has better armor then many pre-drednought ships (technological progress). But quite fast those ships start competing also in that zone.
I don't suppose you have any carriers in the works? Obviously, they'd have to be pretty big, and you'd need pilots for the bomber/fighter squads, but it could shake things up a bit. I also know very little about the game, as I just found out about it, so maybe it's not really an option
@@GetBrocked I'm disappointed in youtube for not giving me a notification that you responded, I'll have to dig around the settings for a bit. That sounds pretty dope to me. I came back here to say I quite like your ship classifications. I plan to use it as a general guide to the ships I build going forward. There's a tabletop mini game called Firestorm Armada, and I plan to make those, starting with Terran ships. They look dope imo, but I have no idea how effective they'd be in combat
Thank you for the great video, would it be possible to see a spreadsheet of all your server metrics for ship class, allowable block count weapon points, weapon types and price? I would like to use something similar for my server.
Anyone else base their tonnage per ship class off of their resource output? Block counts are nice but a faction with a weak economy may only he able to putput a 5,500 block ship meanwhile a strong economy faction could build them so fast thats effectively their "frigate" for allocation purposes.
not to nerd you especially 3 years later but you didn't get the battlecruiser definition right a battlecruiser is a purpose built ship, built to take on anything less than a battleship (so generally battleship weaponery or similar) but fast enough to outrun a battleship thus sacrificing armor
7800 blocks decent heavy armor layering 11.7 million KG of mass 8 heavy arty turrets 4 on each side. 20 medium guns assault guns, and 22 point defense. I was really hoping to know what to classify it. it is capable of flying in 1G. it somewhat fast for its size. I made to catch cruisers and battelship screening.. I ended up with a battleship.I think. unless you have a suggestion. id love to hear them. im really struggling what to call it. (editted) ohh yah, it also has a refinery and an assember. but short on space for crew. 1 large engine and 4 small emergency engines. bad cargo capacity. only one large cargo. 20% of hydrogen capacity from ground zero to leave planet 1G. so it can't stay for too long in atmosphere. fucking hell ive been struggling to find a specification for it for the past days. (eddited..again) i forgot to mention it has 5 docking areas. 1 large exterior landing platform with 4 connectors and 1 hangar 3*3.
The scale & limitations you have in place for ships on your server makes sense and creates a balance that is hard to come by on just about every server I've ever played on. Most ships on PvP servers become turrets farms. Plus the way you implement "Hero Ships" makes sense, it give the various factions a "Boss Fight" Mechanic which they are required to overcome with shear numbers or better tactics.
I'm currently working with JD to improve and update the IMDC Fleet, this ship classification system would be a better fit for the new ships that will be added to the fleet. I see if I can get JD to adopt this new classification system. It would greatly expand the classes we currently have without having the block count skyrocket.
And this is where the First Fleet comes in for the next season... Lmao
One major question I have is where fighter class vessels and drone units come into play, since destroyers would be very effective for anti-swarm
The limits do severely restrict creative freedom (you can have an interior that looks good, or you can have stronger armor)
you forgot the frigates other vital role, something to shoot at to distract the enemy from your bigger more expensive ships, I know this isn't the real life use, but its how I use them, because I'm a terrible admiral.
Nah Frigates are cheap and dispensable, so that is one role they can play.
Well as having served on and alongside U.S Navy frigates I can tell you that…your absolutely right any admiral worth his salt will throw his frigates in front of torps, bombers, missiles, or mines meant for his other more capable craft wich is typically why when you see a carrier group floating around they got three or four just floating around essentially there to be impromptu shields so the admiral can let his subs fighters and destroyers go to work hunting down and taking out whatever is trying to shoot his carrier
@@castlebarron1788 infantry of the sea lol
Basically floating cannon fodder
If you have any day in it, you do not wanna be assigned to a frigate. -Spacedock describing how Frigates will be the first ship an admiral sacrifices
Its fun to remember what Frigates a long long time ago used to be classed as heavier than destroyers (called sloops or gunboats, depending on their role during the age of sail) and surved as independent warships that were quick of speed, well armed and armored. Its interesting that modern day frigates are a complete doctrine flip from frigates of old, from front line warship that tussle with everything up to a man o' war, all the way to rapid response ships of the modern era, man naval warfare is wild.
Yep! here's the secret; ship classification makes no sense. It's sorta arbitrary
Sorta like the definition of what a rifle vs carbine is. It changes every 25 years as tech changes.
There was no such thing as a destroyer in the age of sail. They only came out with screw powered boats. Thats where the full name comes from. Torpedo boat destroyers. They were never smaller than frigates
@@DeepCFisher destroyers (called sloops or gunboats, depending on their role during the age of sail) :P
@@Pathfinder118 just saying it again doesn't make it true. They are different ship types. There is no clear evolution from one to the other. Also there are still gunboats today
@@DeepCFisher C:
Saw this on reddit and thought to myself "what kind of outrageous classifications will this guide have". Glad to say that I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of thought put into this guide! It's nice to see some more reasonably sized and armed ships as opposed to the Warhammer-esque, turret-covered giants that seem to be the norm.
I personally base my ship classifications on WW2 ships as well. The funny thing is that, apart from a single outlier, most of my ships can keep their classifications if I were to classify them by your guide, at least when it comes to block count.
Glad you liked it. It's been a pet peeve the amount of turret spammed ships that I see. Tried to bring some sanity to the SE ship building madness
@@GetBrocked Here's to hoping that this guide catches on in the SE community!
Out of curiosity, what's that one outlier?
@@CaptainRhodor It's been a while so I can't quite remember, but I think it must've been my 1800 block frigate being over the then 1500 block limit.
@@CrescentPHI hopeing that it will, implemented it last month in my little community
Very informative, and many thanks for giving the Oil her due praise. That ship is Vice Admiral Akin's baby, and she's very much a morale booster.
I hope all factions on the server eventually post their designs on the workshop. I’d love to get a look at them & see what concepts I could add to IMDC designed ships.
It's interesting to see how my ship design philosophy nearly mirrors that of yours for our servers, which interests me deeply
Corvettes don't see much use outside of large range recon and escort missions, and it's usually these ones that get designated the "hero" ship. They only get one normal weapon slot, but they have 2 PDC slots, 3 of the ship is unmounted with an FTL drive.
I guess the modlist is to blame here, but fighters don't see any real use since the "meta" is shifted to PDCs over most other weapons. Dropships have weapons, but they're dropships to begin with. It's a big rule that "main guns" can't target small ships, and PDCs can't target large ships (but players, missiles and small ships are fair game)
Destroyers are in the same boat as Corvettes, with the only real difference being they get a +1 to main guns and PDCs
Cruisers are the smallest ship type that can have a shuttle bay, which everyone has utilized so far. They get a +2 to both weapon types, with the addition of normal/heavy cruisers mounting MACs in place of the shuttle bay
Battlecruisers are a step up with a +4, and they get both MACs and a shuttle bay
Battleships... don't really exist with my rule set. This is in part to the modlist, and the fact that the obvious weapon of choice for BBs can reach out to 60km, shredding heavy armor and vaporizing light armor. It's for this reason the entire class was turned into the battlestation, which is the only class capable of mounting said weapon, a whopping +1 to the ultra heavy main gun, but a +10 to PDCs
Without fighters, Carriers don't see any use either. The class was changed out for Support ships, which have the ability to allow ships unable to dock at stations to dock with itself. This little oversight came to be when we realized none of us had adopted standardized docking patterns, so a large portion of ships were unable to dock at stations if they were cruisers or larger
This has the benefit of making support ships the most prized possession of a faction that has one, because there's only one, and they only get that one because they don't have many (or any) station compatible ships
It's also temporary: combat happens often enough that a standardized docking pattern has to be agreed upon, or these factions will push themselves into a self-checkmate, which is always interesting to see play out
just a small historical correction, a Battlecruiser was a Battleship size ship, with cruiser level of armor designed to catch enemy cruiser forces and destroy them
the amount of armour of a battlecruiser actually depends on the navy
@@kuhluhOG of course, I just made a very general simplification.
Just imagine if whoever made the midnight oil just decides to build a battleship sized version with even more armour, survivability, redundancy, etc
Wow. What I originally considered my Battleship is about a heavy Destroyer to you...
'Theres always a bigger fish...'
Whenever I make anything 'large' in a creation game, I always think that it's going to be my biggest ship. Then I see a video like this where i realise just how small the thing I thought of as a flagship is.
Very interesting guide. I find many classifications of the ships I've built roughly line up with the block counts for classifications as you've defined them.
My one slight point of disagreement is with Frigates, I come from a bit older school of thought that Frigates should be your mainstay ship of the line, with destroyers being more specialized. for me this puts the Frigate right up around the 1500-2500 block count, with destroyers pushed into the 2501-3500 range. Maybe it's a doctrinal thing, but I feel Frigates should be doing the majority of the fighting and dying, with destroyers coming in as a scalpel to cut open the enemy line when the time is right. More of a glass cannon, if you will.
That being said your system is definitely robust, and I find the use of point limitations interesting. Though probably not as enforceable on a pure survival server.
19:13 well a bigger hull allows for more versatility. The kind of battleship you described would be similar to a dreadnought style BB. Many battleships had a good amount of secondary armament to destroy lighter ships.
I always enjoy watching videos discussing ship classifications, as it really scratches my itch for naval-related content, and I've also enjoyed binging your Space Engineers content even though I've never played the game before, so I think you've convinced me to pick up the game (as soon as my wallet allows).
(TLDR at the end)
The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the discussion on how historical battlecruisers (BC) came about. Now, stating that a BC is a cruiser that's been crash-built as a small, cheap battleship (BB) isn't entirely incorrect, as there are a few historical ships/blueprints which might fit this description (albeit at a large stretch), like the Alaska, B-65, and Stalingrad classes, which were all planned in the late 1930s - early 1940s. But when looking at battlecruisers built before 1918 (which is when the majority of BCs were built), it's not entirely correct either.
Basically, BCs started off as some British guy saying "What if we had a cruiser that could run down and shit on all the other cruisers?" This basically led them to putting battleship guns, a shit ton of engines, and cruiser armor on a battleship-sized hull, meaning that the price tag and build time of a BC was usually pretty similar to contemporary BBs. Unfortunately, because they had battleship guns, some admirals decided that BCs could be used against other capital ships with similar weapons, which had a rather negative effect on the long-term health of the people who fought at the Battle of Jutland. Some good historical examples of battleships vs contemporary battlecruisers are: HMS Dreadnought (1906) vs HMS Invincible (1907), SMS König (1914) vs SMS Derfflinger (1914), HMS Iron Duke (1914) vs HMS Tiger (1914), and HMS Revenge (1916) vs HMS Renown (1916).
Also, when the Naval Treaties came into effect in the Interwar period, BBs and BCs were lumped together and therefore under the same limitations, so you couldn't get around the treaty restrictions on battleships by building battlecruisers instead.
Then again, battlecruisers are an ill-defined a nebulous ship type which could be attributed to any semi-capital ship/capital ship with bug guns, and it gets even more complicated once fast battleships come into existence during the 1930s, and I've also cut a lot of facts/info in order to shorten this, so my rant can be treated as second-hand rumors, and you can and should take all of this with a large bucket of salt.
TLDR/Conclusion: If you want your world/universe/whatever to define battlecruisers as cruisers that have been crash-built as small, cheap battleships, please do so! If you want to define them as small, fast battleships, do it! If you want to define them as big, heavily armed cruisers, feel free! A battlecruiser is a very nebulous ship type that can be used to describe basically any big-gun capital ship. That said, knowing the historical precedent before deviating from it is something that I find helpful in my worlds/universes/whatever, even down to specific ship types.
These have been the ramblings of a sleep-deprived amateur naval enthusiast. Thank your for reading this far. I shall now sleep.
the explanation of Battleships reminds me of the evolution of the DNs and SDs of the Honor Harrington book series by David Weber, where they went from lead slingers to missile ships in the long run.
Lot of cool ship designs. I have so much to learn.
Been a hard thought on this over the years for SE. Hull size vs types.
PCU vs block size vs mass… hard part of classification is that the weapon slot setup is awesome path you take. You have my Sub Captain.
On behalf of the CDF I just wanna note that we all love the Midnight Oil!
I want to make a ship with an armored dorsal hull and four turrets sticking out the side capable of forward fire. Working in groups, they make an initial lancing pass, then turn to present their armor to the enemy as they circle around, laying down a barrage of fire. Shields and point-defense weapons on the ventral hull protect the more vulnerable ventral side.
Fun fact about battlecruisers. Back when they initially were developed by Jackie Fisher, he intended them to be cruiser killers. They were supposed to be well armed, with the same size of guns as the contemporary battleship, but usually less of them, and had enough armor to fulfill their mission profile, but not enough to be a part of the true battleline. The germans gave their battlecruisers better armour due to the lack of ability to match the Royal navyt ship-to-ship, so they decided that they would add the battlecruisers to the battleline if need be. But funny thing, due to needing more heavy machinery in order to be fast enough to run down any cruiser at the time, battlecruisers tended to be built physically longer than the battleships, and leading to them costing just about as much. So, that is what a battlecruiser is, a ship that is slightly less armed than a battleship in number of guns, but equal in size of guns, who sacrafices armor protection for speed in order to counter enemy cruisers. However, everyone who had battlecruisers would find themselves using them in fleet actions, despite the fact that from their inception, they were not supposed to do that, they were supposed to attack cruiser flotillas.
I’d utilise frigates mostly, but also have a Battlecruiser to be the centrepiece. My style of playing would probably be more defensive and hidden away from other to just manufacture, mine, process and design things.
Thanks for the praise on the Oil :)
I love that ship.
at this point its looks make it more endearing, not less. And tbh, I think it's probably the most recognizable ship in the series dude to the amount of battles it's partaken in
It looks like a blobfish
She's a glorious indestructible gunbarge that brings honor to the Rider name.
Historical tidbits, battlecruisers (BC) design definition varied between nations, although they generally did fall into the definition you laid down. Battleship (BB) armament on a hull that was halfway between a BB and an Armored/Heavy Cruiser (CA). Doctrinally, the generally accepted definition of a BC was a ship that could destroy anything that could catch it (CL/CA) and outrun anything that could defeat it (BB), while being cheaper than a regular BB.
The British and Japanese (who navy was heavily influenced by the British prior to relations souring after WW1) achieved this by taking a standard battleship and stripping down it’s armor for speed and cost (wildly simplified). The British would lose many BCs due to employing them like BBs, in fleet engagements against actual BBs.
On the other hand, the Germans experimented with a lighter armament (28 cm/11 inch guns were definitely BB armament, but they were at the very low end of the scale) on well armored hulls. The Deutschland class was designated as a CA by treaty (in displacement), called a pocket BB by British propaganda, essentially embraced the doctrinal role of a BC. The Scharnhorst class carried the same sized guns (albeit with more of them) and was built on a BB hull fell somewhere between a BC and a Fast BB. Germany’s interwar-WW2 design philosophy was heavily influenced in that they had a smaller fleet than Britain and they did everything they could to avoid contact with the British heavy fleet.
I’m not really trying to make a point and I’ve been rambling for a bit so I’ll stop here.
Theoretically BCs were intended to hunt down cruiser groups with speed and firepower, basically with the intention of killing stuff smaller than them, and fleeing from larger opponents.
I've long maintained that the easiest way to start a fight in a group of naval history nerds is to ask if HMS Hood is a battlecruiser. Hell the debate over what a battlecruiser actually IS has lasted far longer than the concept of battlecruisers at this point. My main point of contention with the description Brock gives is that it ignores the fact that while most battlecruisers did give up armor or weapons for speed compared to a battleship, that didn't always make them much smaller. Indeed several of them, British designs in particular, were LARGER to accommodate the massive engines they needed. And that's not even counting the Alaskas muddling things further with the concept of "Large Cruisers".
I remember when the classification was just how big or how many reactors you had in the ship.
Love how the game is evolving but here we are almost 10 years later and still growing.
Love looking at ship class/scale ratio and realizing my cruiser fits into your frigate
There is no such thing as size clarification. Size is related to current tech.
Role based classification is actually quite simple:
Battleships are literal flying bricks. Battlecruisers are somewhat mobile nests of guns.
Cruisers are actually LARGE ships, what can serve as mobile base of operations. With rafinery and cargo space.
Frigates are your default cheap base ships. You can spend long time with your team.
Destroyers are heavy armed Frigate size prime combatants. Usually lacking rafinady or proper crew spaces.
Corvettes basically are gunboats with jump drives. Only large enough to move between planets.
Hey loving both series 1 and 2 are these ships on the steam workshop by anychance for all us fans
I also feel that the balancing for your ships are amazing as it looks awesome
Keep up the great work its dope
This video is a year old :) I really enjoyed this video.
What is your thoughts on fighters and carriers in your SE series? Has fighters lost their purpose to corvettes and frigates?
This was very informative. i have never known what catagorises a ship as a corvette or battleship, so this was enjoyable to learn.
and leaving this comment to feed the alghoritme methingy :D
thanks! algothmn god is always hungry. Don't forget to sacrifice a tom tom for the klang god as well.
For a fun reference my TOS Era Enterprise is 131,000 blocks and 1 to 1 scale. Constitution class was considered a Heavy Cruiser.
One thing to note - Your particular Corvette role description isn't really what corvettes are used for in either modern naval combat or in sci-fi, but rather what they were used for during the Age of Sail. Modern corvettes are sub-hunters and light combat vessels used for picketing and to support larger ships, while in sci-fi settings they've typically become a sort of anti-fighter screening vessel (although some are set up as either super-heavy anti-capital attack craft or fill the role of a submarine in space).
Hey man I just seen this video and I notice the 2nd corvette on the right is of a design I made many years ago. The fame is the same but with a couple of modifications. Nice to see it around still.
Would love to see an updated version of this video.
For me, I would kinda change the destroyer role as even lighter armor, good shielding, very powerful thruster packs and a very heavy focus on fast-firing turrets, high stealth, long scanning range, and large torpedos. The idea of destroyers would be when a fleet is engaging each other, they would flank using their low detection and fast speed to launch torpedos from a long distance to catch larger capital ships off guard. If they are behind cover, they can rapidly focus on turrets of larger capital ships or try to sever conveyors or thrusters. Or in exchange for less turrets, they could have more anti-missile defense to serve as effective missile screening.
Yeah. In the role play server shields are very rare and advanced so most ships rely only on armour and other physical protection.
ill be honest all i thought about when you mentioned the covette stealth was turning one into a sub. having the bare minimum block count a good range high accuracy weapon and one directional thrust so you come to range you rfir on the target then you angle off charge away so if they try to blind fire you they wont hit. poking the bears till they die
It's hard to class since we only get 4(?) types of weapons in SE.
I really love that 2 cm beam weapon in the workshop but it's not updated anymore.
What you refer to when talking about battlecruisers sounds more like a 'pocket battleship', along the lines of a Deutschland class
I got the Caelius class frigate and retrofitted it for the server I'm playing on at the moment, thinking like 'oh yeah I have this awesome new ship and it's huge!
Then I see this and it's like... the second smallest in the lineup X'D
Great guide, well done!
Another advantage of battlecruisers was they had over powered engines compared to similar sized cruisers, to compensate for the light armor, they were exceptionally fast, the idea was battle cruisers were able to out range anything that was too small to threaten them, but fast enough to run away from ships big enough to damage them.
Battlecruisers were just cruisers with battleship guns. That they were faster is because they didn't had the armor. It was made out of desperation than a concept.
I would like to know if there's a classification for "Monitor" ships: Basically a destroyer sized ship trading most/all of it's "weapon points" for a few large, heavy turrets.
*It may probably not be really effective in pvp, as direct confrontation with bigger ships is still dangerous, but having a heavy punch for it's size.
>Or just buying heavy weapons isn't an option unless it is a bigger ship?
yes actually, but it's more akin to aa short range torpedo destroyer.
we call it the DDK
DD with a 1000mm gun. It's very inacurate though so it's basically a thompson contender in ship form
This reminds me of “The Expanse”. I love it
Gunboats a support troops and bigger vessels could be too damaging. Corvettes one extension would be defensive rings, frigates can have this as well destroyers are generally are specialized as long patrol and defense and harassing unit.
Great context for your classification. Ships on the workshop are often overly exuberant exercises in creative mode fantasy, with corvettes bigger than your cruisers, etc. If this were a hypothetical real universe, I'd like to see the US-equivalent interstellar superpower with an economy to support "battleships" larger than that corvette. :P
In SE terms, I'd like to see more than one of those 150k PCU ships loaded in at the same time, in a playable fashion. Their descriptions always include caveats about impact on sim speed -- so what's the point if the game can't handle playing with the ship?
Lots of effort and cool aesthetics to be appreciated, but... not playable is not playable. :D
I'll check your more recent videos to see how Warfare 2 has changed your players' usage.
some slight spoilers; it's mostly the same. Though Warefare II has pushed the power dynamic to the Light Cruiser which is a good middle ground against Destroyers, while being cheaper than a heavy cruiser
great presentation!
thanks. Not sure how something like this would be received
@@GetBrocked Should be good
This is great, been looking to get a sense of scale for my builds
Scale is actually relative. Ship types are defined by function.
With my friends the difference between frigates and destroyers is although we have them at similar sizes, a destroyer must have torpedoes or guided missiles
Destroyer is literally a uparmed Frigate. Without proper rafinery and crew space.
Finally someone who sees that ships dripping with turrets just are not fun.
If I remember correctly the UK and the US define battlecruisers differently. I believe the US says battleship guns but cruiser speed, ant the UK says battleship armor but cruiser guns. I could be misremembering it through.
That was definitely not the UK definition in WWI where under armoured magazines of their battle cruisers contributed to their losses at Jutland.
So by your explanation. My Corvette and my first big ship is actually frigate. Because it can do everything has a refinery assembler and far firepower but is way smaller than the ones you show.
sure. this is just our system. Stuff like this works if everyone follows it.
It's less so about grading other ships. The most powerful ship in the system after all would be a 1000-2000 block ship that ignores weapon limitation.
Destroyers would focus on firepower and speed and used for escort and harassment of larger ships, battlecruisers are essentially battleship sized glass canons, catch up to anything that they can destroy and outrun anything that outgan them
On an interesting note, while the Royal Navy goes Corvette, Destroyer(Type 42 destroyer Displacement: 3,500 long tons), Frigate(Hunter-class frigate Displacement: 9,800 long tons), Cruiser in size, the US Navy goes Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser. While historically in the age of sail Frigate is what we would call a Battlecruiser in a modern setting, smaller then a ship of the line but still a capital ship (see the USS Constitution). It just goes to show that even in RL the definition of ship classes isn't universal and one mans Cruiser is another mans row boat lol.
oh dang that's a nice Pillar of Autumn
12:03 "Next up we have the powerhouse of the cel- CDF military"
6th Gene: Welp looks like UNSC comes to a calling (Do find it a bit funny that dawn and Eternity are similar to UNSC Paris and Autumn class but flipped in roles. The Dawn while similar in look to Paris, differs in purpose with Paris being more of an artillery/fire-support destroyer, able to punch above its weight. Were as the Eternity is similar to the Autumn, but with a focus on volley firepower rather durability and one main MAC gun.)
Watched a few of your videos, and you have earned a sub. I'll look into your Discord server later, been thinking about getting back into SE. Just sounds like fun.
Are these small grid or big grid ships?
(And where can i access the information about the classes when it comes to points, and the point costs)
that is definitely a different take on ship classes, using block count over size... though if i can get both and still have a functional ship, then ill be happy... when i say size, i generally go by length, using current navy avgs for each class... this does mean that most of MY frigates and corvettes would fall under the stealth classification for your server... however, i actually have 2 size class groups i use to be fair.. the first one i've already mentioned... the second scale is "lets melt my GPU/CPU and build a ""to scale"" 40k sized ships... heaven forbid i actually start a battleship there because 10,000 meters at 2.5 meters a block is 4000 blocks long.. and forget getting those weapons to scale, both in physical size and correct ranges and damage outputs.... i still think about building such a ship from time to time... i think the longest ship ive even attempted to build was just over 300 blocks long... as for weapons.... well that beast was dreadnaught scale for sure.... i had broadsides consisting of 96x2 small gattling guns on each side... did a test fire once and after 3 seconds my machine froze for 15 minutes before it started catching up... on a new machine now.. but not ready for that kind of test again just yet....
This is very helpful ngl
The block count is the most useful in my opinion
Most misguiding, yes.
Cool video, but you really missed the mark on defining irl battlecruisers. Battlecruisers were not cruiser hulls with battleship guns. Battlecruisers were often as large as or larger than contemporary battleships. What differentiated them from battleships was their relatively thin armor and much higher speed.
battlecruisers were also battle ship sized ships with cruiser armor
I like your definition of a battle cruiser, but battlecruisers, even in their day were still thought of as Battleships lite.
One of the reasons that the High seas fleet took the mauling that it did at Jutland was precisely because battlecruisers sported less armor, but were pressed into frontline combat against more armored foes ( we won't even get to the terrible accuracy by the battlecruisers in that engagement).
Thanks for the info
Actually corvettes are very good for fire support from long and good for dealing with fighters (yep my corvettes are based on your size system)
are carriers/ strike craft viable at all? I actually want Space Engineers because of your video on the Eternity
A thought; Is their mine layers in S.E. if so is there a way to determine where a ship will drop out from hyperspace from a known starting point, thus laying mines so a ship entering an area has no (or little) time to avoid the field? ;-)
If I heard correctly, with a 20 gun broadside ability (10 sec recharge between volleys), is it possible to stagger fire of 5 guns so when the 4th set of 5 guns (or 5th set of 4 guns) has fired the 1st set of 4 or 5 guns are recharged and can fire (however the math works out)? ;-)
Quick question how many points would guided missiles be for a fighter?
As a thought experiment (speaking theoretically, with mass and armament taken into account) where would the main ships of the various SE TH-cam series' fit in the Outlands classification system? There's your ships, the Osiris and Sigma(AAAAAR)rious. LSG had the Mighty Weasel and Dora + whatever else the drones used. Capt. Jack's RWI Eclipse, Phantom, Discovery, Prometheus, and the Vengeance. W4stedspace's Vanguard (stolen movie prop) etc.
Osiris is technically a battlecruiser despite being originally classed as a guided missile frigate, the Sig is a frigate/AWACS/ELINT vessel, the Dora is the size of a heavy cruiser while filling the battleship role, the Execurtle fills the role of a super battleship, and the Vanguard is probably closest to a frigate or a Q ship
"fucking french names"
*Angered french noises*
Why is the Viminal on fire lol!
Damn Riders...
Is there a list somewhere of the weapon points for each ship? I'm trying to build a diverse fleet, but trying to classify ships based on how many weapons they have is about impossible. I can build missile corvettes designed to take out fighters but a missile corvette with 30 missile turrets isn't a corvette.
The discord has a list. Join, and then checkout the folder called "Outlands Guidelines'"
My choice is to basically make up classifications. Cut out all the sweaty business of needing to apply water ship classifications to space craft, in particular to classes which changed overtime anyway.
interesting, normally i'd say that pvp in space engineers would be like, cheesed 99% of the time, but, on the way you put it, with role play elements and forced rules.... yeah, that does get my attention now
please say your using weaponcore? that's almost a must for PVP servers these days!
Its not exactly a PvP server. Also weaponcore has a bit of a steep learning curve and would probably throw off quite a few recruits.
"This smoking wreck is the CDF-"
Unintended foreshadowing based on hindsight?
What do you consider carrier class, size weapons etc would this be considered hero class type flagship
It depends. In our series/server there are 5th gen, and 6th gen ships.
If it was a 5th gen ships, the IMDC Europa Carrier would function as a escort, or light carrier.
We don't really use carriers. Hence their exclusion from the list.
@@GetBrocked thank you for the insight and reply I really appreciate it.
I only ask as I was building one in your honour
If I had to add a carrier to this classification list I would limit the ships to defensive weapons only, and a minimum or 6 -12 fighters.
@@highground2320 yeh I agree. Would be like a hero class flagship with a few fighters and defensive weapons only. Since battleships on this server are limited to what 20k block limit would set carrier 25-35k block limit
Now that I have more time to think about it a carrier would have a similar block count to a cruiser and carry 4,8,12,16 fighters respectively.
nice job....keep it up
thanks man
Can you do a overview of all factions ships
May I ask what the second ship with the purple thrusters is at 4:16?
I like it’s design lol
Search Caelius Class CDF Space Engineers on google, should come up.
@@GetBrocked thanks
Imagine a group that is only low range stealth corvettes
Haha I see you saw my thread in the Steam discussions?
Looks like my build is absurdly massive compared to those numbers looking at 4M+ blocks when finished.
Most effective way to deal with those ships is with large grid misiles. Hell you could just pilot them. There is nowhere near enough firepower to stop them and one hit and the biggest ship here is just gone. From a resourse standpoint that would be the most cost effective way. Any ship hit is going to need massive repairs and missiles can just be printed in under a minute.
What do i have when I got approximately 40 large grid blocks long dhip, which has artillery, 2 railguns, some point defence, some interior turrets, 1 max refinery with 2 speed and 2 yield modules, 2 assemblers with 2 speed modules each (ik its not best but i couldn't fit more modules) and 3 jump drives? Its also planetary capable when not fully loaded.
I love how ships are categorized by this...
Now to come to think of it, whats the server? I might be interested to join. :D
I guess not. 🤷♂️😐
How long does it take a single person to build the smallest ship vs the largest, permitted? Does one person typically build the ships or do multiple people get into creative every week? I'm just a noob, but it takes me near a week of 8 hours game sessions per day to even get a 1000 block ship!
Everything is built in creative worlds outside the server, then admin spawned into the survival mode server for battles. As for build time... It varies. We have a few cracked-out speedhead builders who can crank out a heavy cruiser in a day, but they're definitely the minority.
Can you cover over larger capital sized ships like dreadnaughts and carriers, as well as hullers and different class-sized industrial ships? (in a different video and sorry for the late comment)
I also forgot to add in Super capitals as well ;-; (bigger than a carrier/dreadnaught, pretty much massive behemoths in a sense a mobile base)
@@projecta.lf.a8807 Those aren't real
15:45 Not really, especially not if you look at purpose-built battlecruisers.
Back during the Dreadnought era, ship designers could only pick 2 of heavy armour, speed or heavy weaponry.
The British for example chose heavy weaponry and speed, giving up quite some armour with it, but they were still quite better armoured and a lot large than cruisers.
The German chose speed and took a more balanced approach between armour and weaponry, but leaning more towards armour. As a result of that, their current gen battlecruisers often had the armour of their last gen battleships.
Towards the end of the Dradnought era (so, about the end of ww1) a new type of ship came around, the fast battleship. Advances in propulsion made the problem of only really being able to choose 2 a lot less of a problem, resulting in battlecruisers becoming pretty much obsolete and afterwards nobody actually built battlecruisers anymore (well, at least nobody who classified them as such, but as another type (Big Cruisers, USA, they were in speed, armament and armour in the middle between a heavy cruisers and a battleship); with the exception of the USSR, but they did things completely different than every other navy anyway when it comes to classification (no, this ship is heavier than most navies' heaviest heavy cruisers and has stronger armament, it's not a light cruiser)).
It could be argued that HMS Dreadnought was actually a Battlecruiser. Considering that Fisher idea was not just the all big guns, but also that "Speed is an Armour on its own". It was basically meant to be a sniper ship, even if it has better armor then many pre-drednought ships (technological progress). But quite fast those ships start competing also in that zone.
I don't suppose you have any carriers in the works? Obviously, they'd have to be pretty big, and you'd need pilots for the bomber/fighter squads, but it could shake things up a bit. I also know very little about the game, as I just found out about it, so maybe it's not really an option
we do, there's about 3. 1 deployed. Ill eventually put out a video.
@@GetBrocked I'm disappointed in youtube for not giving me a notification that you responded, I'll have to dig around the settings for a bit.
That sounds pretty dope to me. I came back here to say I quite like your ship classifications. I plan to use it as a general guide to the ships I build going forward. There's a tabletop mini game called Firestorm Armada, and I plan to make those, starting with Terran ships. They look dope imo, but I have no idea how effective they'd be in combat
17:50 bulkheads?
Thank you for the great video, would it be possible to see a spreadsheet of all your server metrics for ship class, allowable block count weapon points, weapon types and price? I would like to use something similar for my server.
it's all on the discord. Join up, and check the outland specific channels.
Can you do a video on fighters in your server?
Is there anywhere to see the full scale and limitations?
the discord has the rules written out.
in your server do you allow for automated drones and/or printed fighters?
typically no. On the survival bits we do. But those are more events, and not the norm
I love cruisers
Anyone else base their tonnage per ship class off of their resource output?
Block counts are nice but a faction with a weak economy may only he able to putput a 5,500 block ship meanwhile a strong economy faction could build them so fast thats effectively their "frigate" for allocation purposes.
step 1: completely disregard this guide and have 5km corvettes
Step 2: Permanently brick your PC by setting your motherboard on fire trying to make a light destroyer
Yonkers. That I now use this scale as well. Can we make this the SE standard
Available scale change in SE constantly. Also terminology already exist.
not to nerd you especially 3 years later but you didn't get the battlecruiser definition right
a battlecruiser is a purpose built ship, built to take on anything less than a battleship (so generally battleship weaponery or similar) but fast enough to outrun a battleship thus sacrificing armor
7800 blocks decent heavy armor layering 11.7 million KG of mass 8 heavy arty turrets 4 on each side. 20 medium guns assault guns, and 22 point defense. I was really hoping to know what to classify it. it is capable of flying in 1G. it somewhat fast for its size. I made to catch cruisers and battelship screening.. I ended up with a battleship.I think. unless you have a suggestion. id love to hear them. im really struggling what to call it.
(editted)
ohh yah, it also has a refinery and an assember. but short on space for crew. 1 large engine and 4 small emergency engines.
bad cargo capacity. only one large cargo.
20% of hydrogen capacity from ground zero to leave planet 1G. so it can't stay for too long in atmosphere.
fucking hell ive been struggling to find a specification for it for the past days.
(eddited..again)
i forgot to mention it has 5 docking areas. 1 large exterior landing platform with 4 connectors and 1 hangar 3*3.
It's a Battleship. Or actually by our system, it'd be a Light Battleship
@@GetBrocked fuck x) i wanted it to be a cruiser so bad. well can't be helped.
Is your ship classification and rules document available?
on the discord.
I just have one question. Will there ever be a battle carrier or carrier class ship?
we have a carrier class; but it hasn't been built yet