GAUGE THE ISSUE: Bye Bye No9
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
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The thing to remember is that it'll be safely tucked away in a museum, Having some time away from running may even help it last longer as a long period of rest will reduce the wear and tear done to it so it'll still be around for future generations, without ruling out the possibility that it runs again in the future.
True. I will choose Museum over Scrapyard any day. (Yes, I know that she is not being scrapped. But considering the fate of so many engines (as well as 29 out of the 35 A4s) a museum isn't so bad.
Great when I first saw the news I was worried they may scrap it even though I doubted that, is a different A4 like sir Nigel Gresley or bittern going to take its place, actually bittern is already doing tours isn't it
@@ieuanbriers Well looke at the A3s, one was preserved even though more of them were built. In fact BR planned to scrap flying Scotsman if it weren't for some generous rich guy who purchased the unit and kingfisher another A4 was planned for preservation but had technical issues and Silver link was going to be purchased by Butlin for display in a park which is in fact what happened to duchess of Hamilton but he thought it was too expensive, the equivalent of 70,000 pounds for a locomotive in terrible condition
@Jon Aschenbrenner it’s still at ELR but it will get moved to a private museum apparently. Only where is the issue.
Sadly, I think its pretty safe to say it does tile out running in the future, as time has proved static display is more often than not permanent
Nobody can complain. John Cameron has kept No. 9 running more than any other engine. And it’s a very big complicated expensive machine.
Let’s face it, other Pacific’s will start to permanently retire now they are 80-90 years old, they break more and more (like the 2 Lizzy’s).
Incidentally the A4 was nicknamed ‘the streak’, it was the LMS streamlined coronations that were nicknamed “upturned bathtub”.
I can complain. Depends how you view property. Say I bought liverpool fc and decided I wanted to mothball that towards the end of my life? The nymr would have overhauled the k4 if Cameron would have allowed it to have a new boiler ticket, as I understand it.
It makes me sad and the owner should have been a custodian of a public good, in my view. Its an embarrassment.
@@jonathanwistow6845 but you can't reference a huge football club to a steam loco.
Essentially it's his property and it's also his own money that he has to put in to maintain. Let the man retire in peace.
@@nicholashunt9522 i am pretty sure I can (and just did) reference a football club in this respect. As I said it depends on how we view property. Very happy to let the man retire in peace. I have no interest in him.
@@jonathanwistow6845 you totally missed my point of what l said. A huge football club is not even in the same context to this discussion.
Mr Cameron might be tired of putting his money into the loco(s), he may just want to retire them to enjoy and admire them in peace. His prerogative and nothing wrong with that. Might not be to everyone tastes but who cares.
@@nicholashunt9522 clearly it is up to him but I care. I want to see and ride behind the k4 again. Just like I want to watch Liverpool on tv and at anfield again.
I think we have a lot to thank John Cameron for, the two locomotives that he saved and run for years are not cheap to maintain. A lot of effort is also required to organise looking after two locomotives. It is his train set after all he can play with it as he chooses.
Like the old saying goes: Never say never. No 9's case is kinda like here in the States when in 1994, Norfolk Southern blindsided everyone when they made the sudden announcement to end their steam program and once again retire J-class 611 and A-clsss 1218. No one ever thought those engines would ever run again, and yet lo and behold, 611 was brought back in 2015 (albeit now completely underutilized than anticipated, but that's another story). Point being, anything involving steam engine projects seem to happen when the stars align a certain way. It's not a matter of if No 9 will return to steam, but when?
Came here to say this. My PFP is proof that anything can happen.
We went sixty years saying a Big Boy would never steam again, yet here we are. A world with a working Big Boy is a better world than one without.
Oh man, now I've got 'Free Nelson Mandela' stuck in my head.
Look who it is!
Thanks Jago, so have I now! lol
There’s a guy with a similar sounding name to yours and he does brilliant videos about The Underground. He’s really good!
Better for someone to finance a new A4 build, in improved engine green just so we can have a Duck A La Orange
Better than the birdy song, though but.
While it's always disappointing to see a steam loco getting retired - whether from active or excursion service - and most likely won't run again, we should at least be grateful that they're still preserved as something amazing to see and possibly touch in real life.
Rather have them as static displays in museums than throwing them to the scrap heap.
Whilst I too am sad to see 60009 retire, putting her in a museum is still better than being scrapped.
I've always been of the opinion that at least putting an engine on display leaves it with the opportunity to run again, especially if it's inside a building and protected from the elements.
Also henlo.
Okay, hear me out: when Dominion Of Canada inevitably gets repatriated, give it Scotsman's old A4 boiler and try getting that to run again. I know it's a bit of a pipe dream, but tbh I think it'd be interesting.
However, while I fantasize over my favourite A4, let's not forget that my second favourite A4 is on the way back, and it needs the help of us enthusiasts. Sadly, as a broke Canadian, I can't do much for Sir Nigel Gresley.
Yeah, and since I’m a broke American, I don’t see myself being of any use in helping Dwight D. Eisenhower or one of the PRR K4 Pacifics, either.
@@AndrewHager02 thats not the engines only name it had anouther its former name is goldon shuttle same for dominion of canada hers was woodcock though online suggests it was to be named buzzard witch i had to look both up to clarify i got it right from what a friend told me
I think Scotsman's old boiler is a bit to far gone to be used
@@danielpizzey212 In that case, why not build a new boiler with a GPCS firebox?
@@AndrewHager02 you do know 60103 is currently owned by the national railway museum so very unlikely they'll do that
I consider 60009 to be my family engine
My uncle’s work experience was setting the valve timing during her overhaul at the Severn Valley Railway, my mum used to be on the support crew, and she’s the first engine I’ve ever been on the footplate of, as I sat in the driver’s seat during the Great Gathering
Fun Fact about 60009: Union of South Africa's tender in preservation is not its original one, but used to belong to the experimental LNER Class W1 4-6-4 No. 10000, also known as "Hush-Hush" or the "Galloping Sausage".
Also, while I'm a bit sad about Union of South Africa being retired, I think it's much better for it to become a museum piece than for it to have the fate of some steam engines here in the States, like GTW 5629 and CBQ 5632, which were both illegally scrapped, or Canadian Pacific 1278, which suffered a crown sheet failure and subsequent backdraft as a result of improper maintenance by the Gettysburg Railroad, which ended up badly scalding its 3 crew members, or even NYC No. 6721, which got damaged after a runaway hopper smashed into it and pushed the engine into a building, not to mention SP 743, which got scrapped after a park which put the engine on display never attempted to protect her from deteriorating.
I'm also concerned about the Union Pacific Steam program, especially with Precision Railroading being implemented, and a video showing No. 4014 with a faulty injector.
So, while I know many British people are extremely sad about Union of South Africa being retired, I want you to realize that there are preserved engines here in the States which had to retire on a much sadder note, whether it be initially escaping from the cutter's torch, only for the engine to be cut up a few years later, suffering an accident during preservation, getting struck by a runaway piece of rolling stock, or even be left to rust and later tossed away by the same organization entrusted to protect it.
Union of South Africa is leaving on a good note. She may never turn a wheel again, but at least she'll be around in a museum, protected from the elements, to be enjoyed by future generations in the foreseeable future.
exsacly why im not fussing over her retirement may have saw her july 7th last year thats more then fine for me No.9 probrably wont be the only loco to not turn a while mallard is at york 'static ' among others such as duchess of hamilton through to the Q1 C1 through to others at the shildon site
Hate to say it, but John has a finite life span, as we saw when the previous owner of the Marquess passed away, the passing of these items to the next generation can have an effect none of us can predict. While I hope John continues to have a long and happy life, the same will be true when his locos pass to the next generation.
Aside from his locos, many are unaware of what a friend he has been to railway preservation, because he often either had to or chose to keep it that way, I know of at least one preserved line who would have lost their southern terminus without his help.
Those who do know about such acts, sometimes also suffer from short memories.
John Cameron has been good, generally, for both preserved and main line railways, but as he has aged, he has moved his locos closer to where he lives, and to places where it has been easier for him to see and enjoy them, can you blame him.
Long live John Cameron and here's to the next generation.
(Sorry for such a lengthy rant Chris)
It's entirely right that they come closer to home so that he can enjoy them after decades of funding them for the enjoyment of others, and to be able to enjoy sharing them with others who wouldn't normally get the chance to. Scotland doesn't have any locomotives of this calibre on display in any form, despite there being Scottish connections to some of the most famous. If there were no locomotives on display in museums, such as NRM, then apart from the few minutes they might stop in a station, there aren't any chances to get close to them and really take them in; they'd just be locked away from the public in working sheds.
Well, I truly respect the decision to retire No.9 for now as it keeps her safe and also gives the engine a well deserved rest.
It’s not permanent, as nothing truly is! It’s like the debate that once all of a particular class of loco is scrapped then it’s gone… Tornado has proven that nothing truly is permanent in the rail circle, thanks to new builds.
It may be sad for some yes, but remember that No.9 is not dead, but sleepeth. And she deserves a couple of years rest before returning. It’s only a matter of when it will happen
My dad and I always referred to her as Union of South Osprey.
I'm sorry it's going to be out of steam for a long time but John Cameron did save it from scrap in the first place so we can't bad mouth the man. I wish both him and Number Nine a happy retirement!
Brilliant piece Chris, and you're right in saying what very fond memories we'll all have of 'Number 9'
I’ll miss number 9, one of my favourite locomotives I’ve met at the elr (east Lancashire railway) years ago can’t remember when.
I last saw her at the elr steam gala and I gave her a last goodbye and went inside the cab, also got a souvenir of coal
‘Seriously, if being on the internet has taught me anything, it’s that it brings out the worst on people’ I can 100% agree with that as well from personal experiences, great video, it is sad to see the A4 go but yes end of the day, it is John Cameron decision, I did enjoy a ride behind her at the ELR a few years ago.
Last time I saw Union of South Africa was the cold February of 2018, covered in snow and parked on a siding at Bridgnorth station. It's been even longer since I last saw her in steam.
Seems a shame that such a fine locomotive should be subjected to time as a museum piece but I suppose Cameron has his reasons and he should be respected for them. Besides, it's not like he's sending her for scrap!
last saw union of south africa july 7th 2020 in york on its last mainline run so cameron retiring it seems more then reasonable compared to the flying scotsman witch seems to usually have regular failings
I may not know everything there is to know about how rail preservation works, OR how likely things may change - heck, I don’t even know the full story about Number 9’s purchase. But I do know this, even though I don’t support the idea of the engine never steaming again in the foreseeable future, it doesn’t mean I can’t respect the old man’s decisions. And even though I, as an American, will likely never see her running under her own power in person, I still appreciate her existence. And the same can be said for Dwight D. Eisenhower or Dominion of Canada - who I affectionately call “Doc” for short; lol.
Goodbye, Number 9. Enjoy your retirement. ✌🏻😉
This will annoy certain people but….
Use two A4 pacifics Bittern and Union of South Africa to use as donors to restore Mallard for Mallard’s 100th birthday in 2038.
Ive heard recent rumors similar to that
6:55 - Couldn't have said that, better myself.
Will always have fond memories of 60009; from the first time I saw her at Llangollen in 1993 (along with a certain A3 which was laid up broken in the loco yard at the time), to last seeing her at work on the East Lancs back in 2014 alongside 60007. Heck, even a snap of her with a photo-bombing pigeon will be among my many recollections!
Another good episode of GTI. Thumbs up, as usual!
Union of South Africa has certainly had a fun time in preservation. It sure is nice to see her going on display. On the other hand, I can’t wait to see Sir Nigel Gresley back on the main line,
As an American I can say that you guys are lucky to have what was it, four A4's in some form of preservation, as in the US, especially on the East Coast, it's rare to even have exemplary steam examples preserved.
Mostly we have switchers (shunters) pulling "main line" duty (Rail museums with tracks) beyond a few of the iconic large engines maintained by the big companies "steam programs".
And even static displays Are limited by how many were scrapped.
Though to be fair, in the US preservation started late and small.
theres more then A4s preserved 60163 tornado being new from 2008 being a peppercorn class A1 built to an old desighn 3 other A4s - mallard sir nigel greslery and bittern to an S160 numberd 5820 on the KWVR or a scholes class 926 repton on the NYMR
Sad to see her go
Hopefully, they’ll restore Mallard to service when it’s the 100th anniversary of his record
*Sigh* It truly is the end of an era
What a shame :(
I do feel sad that I missed the opportunity to get behind it in steam although luckily as a volunteer at the ELR I did manage to get on it while been shunted on the gala.
I feel for the extremely loyal support crew some of whom have been with the engine for thirty/ forty years. They re the ones with the massive sense of loss. I recommend the book just out Tales from the UOSA support crew. I enjoyed reading it.
I did manage to see her on the mainline on her way out of Cheltenham
My personal opinion on No. 9 (and the Great Marquess) is that the owner decides what they will do with their locomotives. John Cameron didn't have to devote his time and money keeping either in service for as long as they have or even buy them at all. There not dead but sleepeth for the meantime. As we all don't know what the future holds they may both run again. But regardless of owner wishes, there will simply be a time when not all locomotives that currently or has ever had a boiler ticket in preservation will even run again. Such conditions have to also bear in mind such as cost, materials and whether if it will warrant a further decade of running. I personally admire John Cameron for sharing No.9 and 61994 despite the fact I never sadly seen the latter.
I remember how many overhauls City of Truro had from the first time when Swindon "just happened to have a spare boiler", to when she finally return'd to York (but not in the same building as when I first saw her). It would be great to see her out again but she had, really, quite long enough freedom granted.
Seen here at ELR the other week. They pushed in to Bury Bolton Street then pulled her out before Dinmore Manor did the last one the day. A sad end very sad end. But I got say goodbye to her.
I worked on 60009 on the Scotsman event at the East Lancashire Railway and literally gave up my last opportunity to fire her to let another person fire her because they hadn’t worked on this wonderful locomotive before. On the roster she was my locomotive for the next week. I expected to be working on her but she was changed with 34092. I don’t know if I regret that decision entirely. At least I had the opportunity to enjoy her whilst I did.
Interesting to hear your take on the subject. I saw No. 9 back in 2018 at the Bluebell Railway’s Giants of Steam from that year
Thanks for sharing
My Grandad worked on the railways from 16 till he retired and said he fired Union of South Africa.
I would like to see American steam trains on a list of your choice
Very well said she may be gone it's a shame but one day like a Phoenix rising from the ashes she may return till that day comes good bye for now no9 see u some time in the future any things possible 😀😀😀😀
I should have a couple of videos / photos late a night at waterloo of 60009 and another A4 / steam loco coming back after a day of excursions out to the west country
In the USA, there aren’t many multiple examples of a class operating- period. So, be glad you had such variety and quantity.
BTW: the multiple operating sisters are all “narrow gauge” Rio Grande Mikados.
The Reading’s T-1 class 4-8-4’s at one time had a maximum of two examples running. That’s it. So, be glad. Nothing lasts forever.
you may soon have 2 reading t1s operating again.
@@andrewyoung749 Remember the saying “Don’t count your chickens until they are hatched”. Look at the delays on C&O/WMSR 1309. Their money ran out, delaying it indefinitely…
@@cmdrflake lol im not. good advice
but the reading do seam to be moving toward something with their t1.
and there has been a similar success with a railroad owned steamer returning with the FEC loco on the sugar lines.
At one time people thought that we would never see a Union Pacific Big Boy turn a wheel again, - and for that matter, what about N&W 611?
Coming from an American perspective, I think 09 deserves a break from the mainline. Here in the US there’s only a few steam locomotives that (as of writing) can legally run on the mainline. Most are relegated to shortlines or tourist lines. It’s lucky that the museum local to me, IRM, has 2 steam locomotives running as it is. The UK is passionate enough about steam trains that I wouldn’t rule out 09 potentially running again, most likely in the far off future.
Am sad to see no9 go but I do have that little bit of hop that no9 and K4 will run again in near future
This is just sad 😥
Every engine has there time eventually sadly, like you even stated in one of your previous videos about overhauls it gets to a point where they replace so much metal is it even the original engine? We should be grateful that we still have these engines around as living proof of history instead of just seeing them in pictures or books like a lot of other classes of locomotives
Not to mention Dwight D Eisenhower has been on static display for how many decades now?
Well I learned something new about Union’s name. Possibly a more interesting background compared to Bittern’s renames and cosplays over the years
It’s a shame she and Marquess won’t be active for the foreseeable (I completely forgot Marquess was even out of regular steam I thought she was just getting another overhaul so RIP to that dream) but at the same time I suppose they’ve earned their rest. They’re both over 80 by now
Like Chris says, never say never. No. 9 and 'The Great Marquess' will still be assets to the Cameron family despite this massive change, and if any feasible plan to put them back into operation in the near future, with the right skill and cooperation, it may be effective in upholding John's legacy for years to come. For now, John feels weighted by the amount of effort he personally put into these engines and deserves a breather. Regards, Samuel Farris.
Well, at least we always have Union Pacific’s 844 “Living Legend” for a comparable experience.
My dad always referred to her as Union of South Osprey. Lol
Well running or not I believe it’s a good thing that she isn’t abandoned in some old yard. I’m greek and over here we have many steam engines that are non running in scrapyard, one could say, condition. Only 3 were in running corder up until 2005 and now even these have been left in some shed. Well as you may know that in the north Norfolk railway there are 2 ex Greek 2-10-0s λβ(lambda beta)951 and 960 and I can’t be thankful enough that these were saved. Sadly over here they don’t care about railways in general. Busses have taken over the business and…. Well old steam and Diesel engines are left derelict both standard and metric (3ft 6in) gauge. I hope that someday all old steam (and diesel) engines return to the mainline like they deserve to :)
Well that sucks
John Cameron is in his 80s so may not see no.9 restored for main line use even if he did start it so he will get more enjoyment out of it seeing it static preserved in a museum.
Nobody lives forever though so I wouldnt be surprised if the next owner returns it to steam
The point is Cameron doesn't want anyone else to own it ever, as I understand it.
as of 2022
bye bye No9
welcome back No7
also welcome back no4079, and no72
Even if the locos are currently on static display, remember this: In preservation ANYTHING is possible. We went six decades saying a Big Boy would never steam again, yet, now we do live in a world with a working Big Boy. No one has clairvoyancy capabilities, so who's to say that at some point in the future, the engines won't return to service? Me personally, I would love to return the Central New Jersey Blue Comet to operation, and in theory it CAN be done. Enough coaches exist to make one full train, and while the 4-6-2 Pacifics normally assigned to the train have all gone to the Great Roundhouse in the Sky, the CNJ has a 4-4-2 Camelback as a backup locomotive for the Blue Comet. That engine still exists and is in the B&O museum, so a matched train is possible still.
if they do get the camelback out it cannot be over the roundhouse turntable which has a limit of 80 tons after they found out she may have been the reason why rhe original pivot pin cracked,
At the end of the day. It's up to John Cameron owner of Number Nine and the Marquess on his own dession on both of his owned locos. I'm would like to thank JC, for keeping his locos running over the years especially his beloved Number Nine. At the end of the day, both locos might return to steam locos with different owners, again its up to JC what he wants to do with his locos. So leave the old gent alone. Even though I personally to see both locos run again.
Personal opinion; I think it’s a bit selfish of Cameron to just shove them into a museum. Controversial I know, but that’s how I feel about it.
Yes he preserved them initially. Wonderful, that’s honestly great, thank you John Cameron. However, just because you don’t want to keep them running, doesn’t mean that nobody else does! The world will continue once you’re gone, there are further generations to come that are going to want to enjoy these locomotives. It’s not like you’ve not had offers from others to purchase them, because you definitely did.
It reminds me of Fintan Stack from Father Ted; I’ve had my fun and that’s all that matters.
"preserved them initially"? Nearly 60years! By that rule, you can never choose what you want to do with your car or your house, as people in the future might want to have it their way, or that if someone offers to buy something from you then you have to sell it? Grow up. They aren't going anywhere, they will still be preserved. The original plan was for a brand new museum to be built at the bottom of the garden so that he could see them every day and share his passion for them, but Fife council aren't too bright.
@@me282uk the difference between a pair of well loved, internationally recognised steam loco's and my car, is that nobody cares about or wants to see my car still running for future generations.
That's what a few are failing to grasp. The loco's are bigger than the ownership of one man, Pegler would say the same.
Again, Cameron has received offers. So for me that says it all. Not to mention the fact that he's formerly top brass management, which from personal experience, are the very worst sort of people.
No.9 Union of South Africa will be missed on the mainline, having been seen on the lines almost regularly since the 1970's (as Osprey sometimes) but the engine will survive in a museum. It is hardly like in the 1960's when the engine would be cut up once withdrawn. Little victories, I guess. John Cameron does not deserve any flack, he saved the engine in the first place.
Maybe this is as good a time as any to put more thought into rebuilds. It will make an interesting argument- one that probably happened with a previous Gauge the Issue.
You mean like the possibilities of building replicas of long since retired locomotives, or ones of those that were scrapped?
In this context, I mean the former instead of the latter. Basically, as a way to ensure if an owner decides to retire a locomotive that is its class' sole surviving example to a museum, the class can still have some sort of representative in service.
@@alexveburg6726 In either case, I’d love to look at the possibilities of building such modern steam locomotives with GPCS fireboxes.
I heard about a movement to reinstall bridges over some roads, railway lines, and possibly a river in England to reconect two Heritage Railways so trains can run on main line like conditions with out going on British Rail track. Have you herd about this and if so do you have a video on it?
the great and grand central railway want to do that but pritty sure a bridge on the route was infilled
@@harrymcandrew1447 Work is well under way with the bridge over the canal removed, refurbished and replaced, and a new bridge over the Midland main line has been installed. Enter Great Central Railway Reunification in the YT search bar for a selection of videos showing the progress.
He saved the loco when no one else did, he decided that he could buy it and run it for as long as he wanted to… without his interference it wouldn’t be here at all. Praise the man for what he has done, not criticise him for what he no longer wishes to do. It’s most likely that the negativity has cemented his decision, where he may have otherwise been tempted to give her another run.
Bye bye Union of South Africa I never got to see you in action but I hope to one day in the future
That's OK,
Well he’s not killing somebody but he’s killing my dream to see Union of South Africa run whenever I get a chance to go to the UK
It's not ideal agreed, but it's not the end of the world. UoS will still be around for many to come - just in a museum rather than on the mainline. As I've already said, A4s on the mainline will be covered with the return of Sir Nigel Gresely and the eventual return of Bittern (she's currently on display awaiting for the overhaul queue to be free)
TBH its about time other classes get mainline stints or actually have a member running. The few big classes get stupid amounts while other great but lesser known are left with stuff all
Atopping the A4 is less of an issue than stopping the K4 due to the latter being unique. However, there are so few LNER types out there compared to, say, GWR ones, the loss of each one is a massive hit - with the NRM already having blocked several from ever seeing use. At least both locos still exist.
It’s sad for me that number 9 is retiring because I live across the pond and I never got the chance to see an a4 operating in person but at least we can all agree that without John Cameron buying union of South Africa or osprey however you pronounce it into preservation she would have Been scrapped and we would have five a4 that serviced, is it unfortunate that it’s happening yes but isn’t better then scrap absolutely so let’s be grateful that she’ll be still with us.
Expect all steam engines to in active by 2050.
Well Said I've enjoyed seeing her and filming her whenever I get a chance to even rode behind her as well only once but still only time will tell if she'll run again
Well, it could be worse. She could have been sent for scrap instead of being preserved
Sad but also be happy it even still around in America someone of our most famous classes didn’t make it to Preservation like Hudson’s streamliners of the New York central or the The Milwaukee road a class steam locomotive
awesome video
When he dies someone will buy it and it will be back on the lines ... Soooo
Maybe once we are older we may see her again. With 3 A4's i'm not too worried about it. The fact that the K4 has gone is a shame but then if it wasn't for Cameron we wouldn't have it at all so yeah. Let's see what the future holds.
It's sad to see no. 60009 retire and I don't like it being retired as much as others do but the amount of anger and abused hurled towards John Cameron is just unacceptable. I got dragged into such arguments and they were actually verbally abusing him, calling him a spoilsport and selfish, failing to realise that he is the only reason why Union of South Africa is even around and that in the end it's his loco and it's his decision. Some even suggesting the leaking tubes are easy to fix and easy to access and that the decision to retire it was lazy, failing to realise that the leaking tubes were in an awkward location to begin with, requires testing and repairs are not cheap, but no apparently someone did it with a different steam loco it was therefore easy to do with UoS, failing to realise that not all locos are the same. I reminded them that sooner or later a lot of other Steam locos are sadly going to follow the same route as maintaining them has become more expensive over the years only to be told "it's not inevitable and it's just an excuse for selfishness". (Ironically these are the same people who call Flying Scotsman "Flying Moneypit" and one of them tried to use Flying Scotsman's ill-fated USA tour of how the same could apply to Union of South Africa in changing ownerships - while failing to realise what actually happened on the USA tour). This is the internet after all as sadly it means idiots and morons are allowed to use it as well as decent people.
Besides, we still have Bittern and Sir Nigel Gresley, the latter which has nearly finished it's overhaul and is due to return in a few months time. Bittern as well is still in very good condition as she was only recently restored to working order (she's currently awaiting overhaul though). Of course Union of South Africa may return in the future but until then, it's bye for now.
I think people underestimate how much it will cost to renewal the boiler ticket
We have the new 2-8-2 to look forward to, and after that, who knows?
Does anyone know exactly how much of a Trigger's broom the A4 is?
If you have to change every thing to keep it running, are you actually doing any good or would it be better to build a new one for running purposes and leave the "original" in a museum.
Every working steam locomotive is a Trigger's Broom.
It'll be the next owners after John's death that you can complain to for keeping it in a museum.
give me 20 years, I'll sort it out. Can't promise it'll remain in Britain, though.
Wasn’t there an green A4 (Union of South Africa or Britten) had the name “Sir Ralph Wedgwood” nameplate during preservation days?
no
Long live the legend on No.9!
Its a shame for some that they never got to see her running, but as chris says who knows what my happen in the future :D
Preferred the old GTI theme. New one sounds s bit heavy to me
He can do what he wants with them of course. But my disappointment is that if he didn't want to spend to keep them running, they was other parties who would have bought the loco off him, or carried out the work. 🤷🏾♂️
It is very, very sad that No.9 is not be in action ever again and in my opinion I am upset about the news back in 2017 and now 😢😢
Also in my opinion all steam locomotives should be treated with respect as they are icon of amazement and seeing them being put in building is horrible to think about.
What's truly sad about it is the fact that after 50 years of almost constant use, Union didn't get to have a proper goodbye in any sense. Her mainline career ended with a whimper thanks to COVID, and now a failure has scuppered her chance of a final farewell. It's a rather sad ending to her tale. I do wonder where she's going now, though. Last was reported, Cameron only got his museum approved after he took his locos out of it, so unless something has changed since then they won't be going to the John Cameron Museum (that's the only part of the debacle I've been critical of). Maybe Bo'ness will be her final resting place like Marquess. Who knows?
I always wondered did Sir Nigel Gresley name all of the A4s himself??
No, I believe you'd get to maybe name the first of the class(this was mentioned in discussion of thompson being asked for a name for the first B1, this might set a theme but the responsibility would likely go up to the board as would any name you suggested. BR had at least one committee to decide names, if not one per region someone can probably correct me there.
It's sad to see her bow out from service.
Reality is that John Cameron will not be around for much longer. Don't know exactly how old he is, but since he got married in 1964 and various biographical pieces round the internet refer to him doing things in 1963 when he was at least in his late teens, he has to be at least 75 and is probably over 80. That means there's every chance he will be dead within a decade and at that point he will no longer get to decide what happens to those locomotives.
So it is premature to talk about them being permanently on static display.
sure. but hes entombing them on his farm lol
when he dies who knows what happens. who hell will it to.
the guess would have to be srps.
but that wouldn't do much for no9s operational future, boness hasnt exactly got a booming mainline presence despite its effective monopoly in scotland.
well see. its been fun. but its pretty sad. the a4 that wasnt ever really retired now silent
Honestly maybe 60009 could run again In some years to come. But all I can do is really hope for that. But I do agree on a campaign or having some other company recuse the A4. I know that won’t happen but again hope is all I can do.
Really was hoping to get to see the locomotive for once since my favorite is green and 60009 has a br green livery and also a A4.
But I guess 60009 did have a good run.
Leaving the emotional 'leave the old man alone' idea to one side and the 'well it's his property' idea. Both I might say are arguments that have a value. Let us consider
National Heritage. Why do we have a National Trust (as it was in it's inception) and why do we Grade List Old buildings and place restrictions on their maintenance?
Both of these principles can be weighed against the initial 2 points. A4's are Historically and Scientifically important, we do not put stately homes in Museums, people do live in them and they are maintained in full working order and pay for their upkeep. We also have a National Lottery Fund to help with costs. There is more to this
matter than has been suggested.
But we do infact turn stately homes into museums when they're no longer practical to maintain/use as intended. I agree with the idea of protecting historic objects and vehicles but TBH that could reduce the number of locos running due to parts originality debates
@@oliverbooth2872
As I stated they are often lived in, plus maintained as if the whole building was lived in. In a Museum the parts that are inaccessible will be rusting away. Originality is entirely dependent on availability across the board allied to a more enlightened position. This applies funny enough to stately homes, listed buildings and structures etc.
@@barleyarrish "As I stated they are often lived in"; often = not always. Not every old building has to be used explicitly for living in in perpetuity. Otherwise NRM would be attacked every day for daring to have any locomotives that are not in active condition and use every day! They will be safe and looked after, like many others.
@@me282uk
The point is they are well maintained, and heated even if they are not lived in. The place is dusted, the woodwork polished, masonry inspected, woodworm treated etc etc etc. Further to this a working loco motive is a crowd puller, a static exhibit will never draw as much in the way of people and will not pay for it's upkeep because of that. There are the means to keep loco's running indefinitely albeit in the form of a sailors penknife, but hey, would you sooner be in the company of
a fired up A4 on the track, or standing next to the same machine when the only sound you will be hearing is the shrill echo of a
museum? Me? I prefer the former, but you may disagree....
6:36 you forgot one thing that being old ex eu regs saying that a train cannot be more than 750meters. Here in the states that would lead to political suciade for the senetor or representative that would introduce such malarky
3:43 Bath tubs ?
I’m just happy for the bloke
Just take her to South Africa like dominion of Canada in Canada and Dwight in the US
If John Cameron changes his mind of keeping No. 4488 Union Of South Africa running, it will be fantastic news to everyone of us. Also he should really get Union Of South Africa back to its LNER colors instead of its BR colors because it looks awful in BR Brunswick green.
Both locos will no doubt out-live their current owner and after that who knows?
Come in Number 9!
Your time is up!
Thank fvck I didn't book tickets for the NYEve thing!!!!!!
_
87th - still yay.
I not bothered by number 9 being withdrawn, it was more I didn't get the chance to see Great Marquis run and I didn't realise I missed my chance until it was announced... but I agree at the end of the day I don't demonise the man for that.