I have a Minibay as well. It's great! One thing you can do with synths that have a mono output is use the headphone out instead which will give you dual mono out.
Guy who made this was staying in my hotel and we took an Uber to the show each day. Really nice guy. As he described this I continually got more and more interested. Really wonderful idea and layout.
Hey total diversion. you created my favourite factory patch of the s2400 - the flux kalimba, right? Had it as default for a while when I was starting out with the machine. Also thanks for the video jorb. Never knew anything about these. liked, subbed.
I saw this on DF's youtube and at the end I started to replay the video because "wait there's something I dont understand" when your video pops up as next. And I just said out loud "... There he is, the exact person I'd want to ask" lol.
I was wondering what patch bays were. I'm glad you were able to explain in 15 seconds compared to some of the other videos I tried watching about it xD
I really love how you're super happy to make videos about utility stuff because as you say ''I love gear'' haha. No cherry picking here. Good gear is good gear. I appreciate you dude
Gosh, I love this! Any synthesist that still has, say, all her weird guitar pedals from her drone metal project, and suddenly use them quickly and efficiently without having to completely discombobulate one's mixer. Plus, I actually understand how patch bays are supposed to work, as opposed to me goofing with fx sends on my mixer. Great video!
But, one difference between this and an S/R loop on the mixer is that you can mix in the amount of the effect from your mixer, whereas here it is just on or off. That means the wet amount is manually controlled on the effects unit, instead of setting it 100% wet (no dry) and using a mixer to control the amount. Also, with a mixer, you send multiple channels to the effects unit. Here, it's just 1-to-1 since it's a static patch and not a variable mix of (multiple) audio signals. It really depends on how you want to route where and when, and which knobs you want to wiggle. 😊
I love my patch bays!! I route my submix out into a patch bay, and then all of my various samplers (octatrack, MPC Live, digitakt, MC707) to the inputs of the PB. That way I can sample from any source into any sampler. I also have half normals to go into the audio interface so I can multitrack, but in practice I rarely do that. This little mini bay looks like a super useful desktop unit.
Holy shit thank you for this video. Just bought one of these patch bays, this is going to save me hours each month of routing stuff to my 2 input interface 😵💫
Always a pleasure Jorb. Thanks for sticking your neck out there for the greater good of the synth community. We appreciate your knowledge and the fact that you decided to share it! Cool product here
This looks like a solution a problem I have: several stomp boxes (FX) and several synths and how to connect them. This was an excellent video demonstration, well done Jorb!
Jorb! question: does this work with stereo pedals that have 1 TRS in and 1 TRS out? i just preordered the Chase Bliss Onward pedal and im trying to wrap my brain around how that would work based on what you did here with the FX 1 going in and out of the delay… how would you get stereo in and out of a stereo pedal with one jack for each. does that make sense? because i’m confusing myself just typing this out
You could use two fx channels. two eurorack patch cables to route the input, and two to route the output. Just think of it as 2 seperate mono pedals. Only difference is you probably want them going out of the unit to the same thing, where it will get treated as left and right
I literally could not make my set up work without patchbays. They are so incredibly useful, but can be intimidating and quite confusing for someone whos never used one before. They are also the perfect solution if you are out of inputs on your mixer, but don't want to upgrade to something larger. Interesting design using insert style jacks on the back to and 3.5mm on the front to save space. Great job explaining normalling, routing, etc. Amazing video!
@ghost mall Yes, agreed. That's more of the point I was trying to make. Prior to using one, many peoples perception is that they are more intimidating than they really are.
It's a cool product, the one major (fatal) flaw for me is that they placed the (normal/half/thru) switches inside the unit so you have to take all your connections out and the unit apart to change this. The type of switch they used for this is so small they could have easily given access from the front or real panel. Maybe not important to some but I find I change these up enough with my patch bay that it would be an issue.
@ghost mall haha, yeah me too with the Samson, I am so happy I did, couldn't be more satisfied, I have two of them and probably will end up with a 3rd. They are a little more expensive but worth it, especially since it is a long term investment. I imagine these lasting decades. I think the Minibay is really cool, but not having access to the normalcy switches without taking the unit apart to me is simply a design flaw. But, I am sure it would be great for many people. At least it is innovating on something which I support, maybe we will see a version 2.0 in the future.
Another Samson user with one, wondering if I could use another. My USB interface is in a rack with it and some other rack-style effects and preamps with jacks on the back. All the synths and effects are routed to the back. Super clean. If I had a lot of tabletop space, this patchbay looks like a winner. But my studio is about 10x10 feet and includes an electronics repair bench and too much vinyl. One cool use I made of the Samson is one pair of channels in thru mode so that a boutique compressor's ins and outs are one above the other. In thru mode it will never feed back if disconnected, and it can be dropped into any signal chain with ease.
Great content. The examples were realistic, useful, and easy to follow. I was feeling a little intimidated when it started, but seeing the equipment and connections and listening as changes were made helped to lock it all in. Nicely done.
Seems like a small thing, but this form factor is hugely helpful, especially when integrating with small setups. So cool. Thanks. Wouldn't have known about this particular patchbay without the heads-up!
I get my cables tomorrow, but I'm slightly confused by the FX send/return model. I have a stereo compressor. If I understand this correctly, I will take up two channels of FX for each input/output combo (in:R, Out:R on FX1, and In:L, Out:L on FX2) From here, FX1 and 2's top rings will be input jacks, and bottom rings will be output jacks. I got a little thrown off by the stereo chorus since it was mono in stereo out and my brain wasn't computing the send back into one of the other mixer channels.
Helpful and methodical approach. I bought a Patchulator 8000 from Bored Brain a couple of years ago, and it has saved so many headaches with patching and unpatching, and finding working cables. If I had more gear, I would consider getting this bay . It looks very functional.
Looks very interesting, as already 184 other comments state. I have a question…. I cant see any outgoing cable to the mixer or audio interface. Where are they? Thank you.
This is cool and I could see it being useful for some folks studios. For me it defeats the purpose of having my patch bays as desk space is premium real estate in my studio. Having rack mounted bays is incredibly helpful for space and keeping my cable management tidy. Patch bays are incredibly useful I’m so glad I put them in it makes the workflow SO much easier!
I'm missing something with the effects pedal connection. If it's TRS on the patchbay side and T input R output on the pedal side on the same cable, wouldn't it cause a feedback loop?
No, because they are not connected. You'd get a feedback loop if you inserted a patch cable between the input and output sockets on the top panel (but you wouldn't do that).
Hey Jorb, I recently found your channel (fellow guitarist turned synth-nerd here). You have a gift for explaining things very succinctly. Thanks for the content.
Thanks for the video! I'm always trying to figure out if a patch bay could be better than my current set up which has all of my outboard gear connected to my medium big mixer (soundcraft 22) and I've got two separate stereo aux sends and another mono aux send, each with their own effects chains. So I can just dial in how much op1 to send to my oto delay and reverb chain, and for fun send some to the volante/vongon/screen violence chain at the same time. Then I can send another synth to my guitar pedal mono chain and get some quirky looping going. It's all aways hooked up in the mixer. This works wonderfully for my production style where I work up a sound situation that I like, experimenting without having to unpatch or patch up anything, and hit record on my daw when I'm ready to record a performance. Downsides are that I wish I could find a mixer with more stereo effects send/returns, and of course I'm giving up the control I might have recording track by track. I prefer it that way though, to avoid spending most of my time editing rather than exploring. If someone has an extra Shure Auxpander lying around please let me know!
When I first started working in studios, I had to learn about patch bays. Now that I've learned, I'm a HUGE fan! This is a good idea. Personally, I'd like to see a version of this bay with a multipin connector, like EDAC or D-Sub, instead of 1/4" insert cable. Otherwise, great!
I have an old mixer with just two mono sends and one stereo return and inserts for each channel, can I use this patchbay to somehow overcome the limitation of the x2 mono sends and x1 stereo return on my mixer? Maybe by using the individual channel inserts? I'm new to mixing routing and parallel fx tecniques
Great desktop patching tool, apart from the fact that mods (normal/half/thru) are hidden inside. Ain't no time to disassemble the box in order to change the signal flow. And since a patch bay is made to gain time while connecting audio devices, one major feature was lost by constructing Minibay the way it is now. Once it is corrected, and should be, I want one. Jorb, Thanks for this presentation :)
I recently reworked my setup so that everything goes to two Erica Synths Matrix Mixers: one for audio routing, one for CV routing. Similar idea + attenuation
I have a few patch bays , and the Erica system looks killer . Wish something was available like it in 19” rack .. in the standard rack the cables are all nice and tucked away round the back , but it can get real messy round the front .. that’s why the Erica system seems so good .. no patch cables and the ability to mult / mix / is massive advantage .. hence the cost .. this thing confuses me and I can’t se the benefits over normal patch bays and a compact mixer for the price ..
Here's another point I'd like to add related to the Minibay. I know a lot of people who could benefit from this or something like the Patchulator by Bored Brains. If you get your hands on one it might be a nice comparison video where you point out some of the differences between Patchulator, Minibay, and other (more) standard 19" 1u patch bay units.
I bought one of these and I’ve pretty much figured it out..for the most part. If you use stereo pedals with 2 ins and 2 outs, it’s great. I’m having trouble routing pedals with single stereo TRS to dual mono TS (Strymon El Cap V1 & Hologram Microcosm). Has anyone ever tried this?
Just use a TRS to TRS for the input and a TRS to dual TS for the output. Connect the pedal input to A11-12 and the output to B11-12 (for example), then you'll get the same vertical signal flow layout as your other regular pedals on the FX row.
Appreciate you jorb. I'm not even into eurorack, but the mpc and deepmind stuff you have put out for free (you can pay if able) makes you a force for good in the world mate.
Another key reason to use a patch bay: Its front jacks are durable and *designed* to be plugged and unplugged countless times. The jacks on your musical instruments are frequently not as durable. I've had them get loose and fail, whereas I've never, ever, had a patch bay jack fail.
Ohh, this is perfect - cheap enough to instabuy. My rack mount patchbay is gathering dust, not because of lack of usefulness or fx pedals. The comment about the normalization switches is valid, but not something I do often. My current patchbay requires me to open up the case and switch the orientation of the daughter boards, so the switches are a step up.
Good review 👍. My 19" rack patchbay is just a filler panel since I switched to a jamming table. This could be used like a versatile snake head for my mixer and currently under-used rack effects. The passive summing mixers would be handy for my modular patches.
This is such a great idea. I've often thought someone should come out with a guitar style loop switcher with multiple inputs designed with synths in mind, bu this is probably a better idea.
This is a great explanation on how to use a Patchbay, for people who have never used one this is a must watch. For those who want a great first Patchbay this looks like a no-brainer. The passive summing is a big bonus too. I was on the waitlist for the first run but decided not to buy because of the TRS stereo jacks which for me is a bit of a downside because it requires more adapters. Also, I prefer patchbays that can handle balanced signals. I could still think of a lot of situations where this would be helpful especially for new patchbay users, ergonomically it’s makes a lot of sense, aside from the need for extra adapter cables, it’s a nice layout.
LOL Really? Because I own a normalised patch bay and I seem to be comfortable there, whereas this started breaking my brain in the first minute of the video already.
@@telumatramenti7250 I really thought it was explained well but it could be biased by the fact that I have been using patchbays for a long time. Also, this patchbay does a lot more than a typical patchbay and without explanation I think a lot of people would be completely lost.
@@beatnikcafe Yeah, it does a lot of things, which I think would be more adequately controlled by hard or soft switches instead of patch cables. Don't get me wrong, I like modular synthesizers, it's just that I feel that having to order even more mono patch cables, and Y-adapters on top just to mix and record normally would be an overkill...
@@telumatramenti7250 You proably know this already but just in case someone else can also benefit from this tidbit of advice. If you use a patchbay with all stereo devices you can use TRS cables for patches and use only one patch point for each stereo in and out, so for a mostly synth + stereo effects patchbay you can use a balanced patchbay as an unbalanced stereo patchbay instead. You will still need to deal with y-cables to get all your gear connect to the back but once it's connected patching is much easier and faster since you only have to patch half as many cables. Most synths are unbalanced so you really aren't losing much in the equation if you go that route and so using a standard 19" patchbay would make a lot more sense for that situation.
@@beatnikcafe Damn, just when I got the Kodamo Essence FM synth with 8 balanced mono/4 stereo outputs. LOL Just kidding. Yeah, I get what you're saying, I have 2 of my stereo-capable synths hooked up that way.
that's a cool little unit, not sure the dip switch inside the box's a good idea, regardless though it's an affordable flexible unit that's perfect for a small/medium set up..cheers man hope you have a good trip to germany
i try to normalize the minijack connection from a1 to b1 to have the most used connections in the modular always next to them. but doesnt work. is normaling only via jack to minijack?
This would be a perfect companion to a 1010 blue box. Also, where was this 3 months ago when I was rewiring my studio and added traditional patch bays? I need this!
It's a great product as it employs some original approaches. One issue for me would be that mono patch cables are quite expensive (and I already use a ton on my semi modular synths where they are needed most) and that you would have to also buy a bunch of Y adaptors to work with TRS connectors at the back of the unit. And those adaptors are notoriously flimsy and get easily damaged from ordinary use, I've replaced mine a few times just the last 3 years. I would be far more comfortable with 1/4 Mono connectors and ports, and switches on the top panel to replace most of the ports there. I've long thought of building something like that, I have the case and most of the parts, just need to order a custom built PCB for it.
@@alexbreyer6921 Part of what I do for living involves repairing PCBs through soldering. Soldering Y cables doesn't work, - the wire tends to break very close to the connector, which necessitates replacing the actual connector. Not only does this make the cable shorter, but these connectors themselves cost so much, that it makes the same sense to buy a new adapter altogether. There are wireless adapters of similar nature, but they are stupidly designed. In order to relieve the pressure created by the weight of the attached cabling, - they need to be angled. Instead, - they are typically straight. I have a whole box of these, once they break, - I keep them for the male end, as I make my own cables with those.
what about synths that support left and right, each in TRS... is that just simply for grounding issues then? can I still split in the same way using two TRS to the TS/TRS splitter?
Balanced signals passed on TRS jacks, so one TRS for left, and one TRS for right? to preserve the balanced signal you could use a pair of inter connects for each, or preserve normalling, but yes you're taking up double the tracks. Or you can run them unbalanced like everything i demo here
Is it actually silent as you plug and unplug stuff? I would expect it to make the awful unplugging sound. Is it just editing for our ears' benefit or have I been doing something uncouth all along
is there any latency between the patch bay and synth. I had to hook up my synth from mixer to interface to record the audio not midi. playing live between the 2 synth feels not accurate but sound great when playback or midi sync to cubase.
Question: In these examples, if the multiple synths, sequencer, etc is all patched in and going out to an interface, that means anything recording is on one Left/Right channel? What if you want to separate those for mixing?
@@JorbLovesGear so it's separating the left and right channel from the one cable to make it isolated instruments? And it's at the same as recording going to the mixer?
Good video and interesting product, thank you. I already use classic patchbays in my studio but it could interest me as this is tabletop thus obvioulsy encouraging for experiments. BUT with regular TS jacks everywhere. And idealy ALL the conections on top, nothing on the back and the normalizing switches accessible on the top too. I obviously undestand this will impact its tiny form factor but I don't like to deal with 3 types of connections plus Y cables for the same job and having to dismantle the thing to access to the normalizing settings. So, Minibay's people, gi'me the same but bigger with bigger holes. Something 19'' wide, 3 or 4 U high , and tabletop flat. "The MiniBigBay mk2"? 😄 (actualy I'm reinventing the horizontal lateral patchbays we could find on big studio consoles)
Dang, that looks useful. I play mostly guitar but I keep rearranging my effect pedals … and I’ve got a drum machine … and some synths I’d like to use more … so I could really use this. Also: what is the story behind that delay pedal?! It looks like you backed over it with a truck.
It would be a great hands on way to quickly move around pedal order, good use case. I bought it as broken to repair another DD2, but it just needed the switching jack exercised a bit, now its one of my favorite pedals.
This is brilliant kit. I would use it with older 1/4" out synths like you are. The price point (~USD$200) is right. But $60± shipping per unit (from Thailand) is not. ☹️ I wish they'd get distribution in the US (eg. Perfect Circuit).
Yes, but remember it's not changing levels of anything, so if you're worried about getting eurorack level down to line or even instrument level, that's about way more than just how big the jacks are
@@JorbLovesGear Related but not about the product. Why is it stereo send and returns are lacking everywhere? Mixers, modules, etc. This is not directed at you at all... just seems like stereo is a bit scammy when it comes to hardware because they make you buy 2. Sure, I can run stereo direct outs into pedals but the only way I have sort of fought with stereo returns is by using a fancy pedal switcher by G3 that lets you, like the patch bay, use 2 jacks to handle stereo ins and outs. Seems like at this point, we need I/O jacks on everything and we can pick how to configure. Also seems like a great opportunity for advancement in the antiquated mixer world...and Im not talking about tiny baby hand options like Teenage Engineering.
If you plug the insert cable into say the B1&2 jack on the back; which is 1 and which is 2, Tip or Ring? Wondering how this thing is wired that way internally.
My OCD would kill me with all the cables. I try to keep my setup clean... Midi cables are bad enough. Awesome idea though, looks like it could be fun. It'd be cool if you could pull the synth outputs and send them to some eurorack units
Yes, you could patch straight from a modular system into the top panel of the Minibay. The only problem would be the levels. But we (DF Audio) have got something coming out soon to solve that problem :)
I see the appeal of having it in this form factor instead of a rackmounted unit. But the TRS to 2x TS split is a bit stupid, as well as the 1/8th inch jacks on top mixed with 1/4 inch jacks in the back. These 2 make it a bit of a fad instead of a decent product. Also having to use burried dipswitches for the normalled mode is a let down. Make it with just plain (balanced) mono channels and uniform jack sizes, preferably 1/4 inch if you target synth users, or a 1/8 inch version for when you target modular users. And have the normalled mode switches on top per track. And now you have a unit that is versatile and doesn't need Y-splitters, 1/4 inch to 1/8inch adapters and doesn't require you to jump trough hoops to get it to work the way you want with mono and stereo sources, destinations and effects. Then again, you've just made a regular patchbay, only a desktop model instead of rack mounted one. To be fair, the 2 mults are a nice addition.
They have enough real estate on the top between the rows to put in 'normaling' toggle switches - when they launch Version 2 with those switches (hint hint) I will be buying at least 2 !!!!
I have a Minibay as well. It's great! One thing you can do with synths that have a mono output is use the headphone out instead which will give you dual mono out.
Guy who made this was staying in my hotel and we took an Uber to the show each day. Really nice guy. As he described this I continually got more and more interested. Really wonderful idea and layout.
Dudley is a real one. I think he did a great job!
Cheers Ken - was great meeting you :)
Hey total diversion. you created my favourite factory patch of the s2400 - the flux kalimba, right? Had it as default for a while when I was starting out with the machine. Also thanks for the video jorb. Never knew anything about these. liked, subbed.
@@kid_missive yep, thanks for the kind words :)
This device for cv signals can be awesome ...
I love the fact it has an fx inserts to patch out board gear in. Very cool
I saw this on DF's youtube and at the end I started to replay the video because "wait there's something I dont understand" when your video pops up as next. And I just said out loud "... There he is, the exact person I'd want to ask" lol.
😅🙏🙏🙏High praise cheers
I was wondering what patch bays were. I'm glad you were able to explain in 15 seconds compared to some of the other videos I tried watching about it xD
best patch bay explanation I've watch on youtube! cheers
Great video. I was wondering how i can route microphones to the minibay. Would It just be one cable since its mono?
Yes, one cable, but it should be TRS if you want to retain the balanced signal.
I’ve come here from all my friends are synths recommendation. Already subscribed. Thanks for your help .
🙏 🙏 🙏
I really love how you're super happy to make videos about utility stuff because as you say ''I love gear'' haha. No cherry picking here. Good gear is good gear.
I appreciate you dude
🙏🙏Well read, I am just happy to do it
Gosh, I love this! Any synthesist that still has, say, all her weird guitar pedals from her drone metal project, and suddenly use them quickly and efficiently without having to completely discombobulate one's mixer. Plus, I actually understand how patch bays are supposed to work, as opposed to me goofing with fx sends on my mixer. Great video!
Thanks Katherine! Yeah I think re-ordering effects is the best way to utilize this. Especially with how hands on it feels with the minijacks
But, one difference between this and an S/R loop on the mixer is that you can mix in the amount of the effect from your mixer, whereas here it is just on or off. That means the wet amount is manually controlled on the effects unit, instead of setting it 100% wet (no dry) and using a mixer to control the amount. Also, with a mixer, you send multiple channels to the effects unit. Here, it's just 1-to-1 since it's a static patch and not a variable mix of (multiple) audio signals. It really depends on how you want to route where and when, and which knobs you want to wiggle. 😊
I love my patch bays!! I route my submix out into a patch bay, and then all of my various samplers (octatrack, MPC Live, digitakt, MC707) to the inputs of the PB. That way I can sample from any source into any sampler. I also have half normals to go into the audio interface so I can multitrack, but in practice I rarely do that. This little mini bay looks like a super useful desktop unit.
Holy shit thank you for this video. Just bought one of these patch bays, this is going to save me hours each month of routing stuff to my 2 input interface 😵💫
Always a pleasure Jorb. Thanks for sticking your neck out there for the greater good of the synth community. We appreciate your knowledge and the fact that you decided to share it! Cool product here
Cheers, its a great one
I wired up my own 19"patch bay many years ago, no idea what happened to it, took bloody ages but was very useful. This seems like a much better idea!
This looks like a solution a problem I have: several stomp boxes (FX) and several synths and how to connect them. This was an excellent video demonstration, well done Jorb!
Jorb! question: does this work with stereo pedals that have 1 TRS in and 1 TRS out? i just preordered the Chase Bliss Onward pedal and im trying to wrap my brain around how that would work based on what you did here with the FX 1 going in and out of the delay… how would you get stereo in and out of a stereo pedal with one jack for each. does that make sense? because i’m confusing myself just typing this out
You could use two fx channels.
two eurorack patch cables to route the input, and two to route the output.
Just think of it as 2 seperate mono pedals.
Only difference is you probably want them going out of the unit to the same thing, where it will get treated as left and right
I literally could not make my set up work without patchbays. They are so incredibly useful, but can be intimidating and quite confusing for someone whos never used one before. They are also the perfect solution if you are out of inputs on your mixer, but don't want to upgrade to something larger. Interesting design using insert style jacks on the back to and 3.5mm on the front to save space. Great job explaining normalling, routing, etc. Amazing video!
@ghost mall Yes, agreed. That's more of the point I was trying to make. Prior to using one, many peoples perception is that they are more intimidating than they really are.
It's a cool product, the one major (fatal) flaw for me is that they placed the (normal/half/thru) switches inside the unit so you have to take all your connections out and the unit apart to change this. The type of switch they used for this is so small they could have easily given access from the front or real panel. Maybe not important to some but I find I change these up enough with my patch bay that it would be an issue.
@ghost mall haha, yeah me too with the Samson, I am so happy I did, couldn't be more satisfied, I have two of them and probably will end up with a 3rd. They are a little more expensive but worth it, especially since it is a long term investment. I imagine these lasting decades. I think the Minibay is really cool, but not having access to the normalcy switches without taking the unit apart to me is simply a design flaw. But, I am sure it would be great for many people. At least it is innovating on something which I support, maybe we will see a version 2.0 in the future.
@ghost mall Same, and it's build like a tank. 100% recommended.
Another Samson user with one, wondering if I could use another. My USB interface is in a rack with it and some other rack-style effects and preamps with jacks on the back. All the synths and effects are routed to the back. Super clean. If I had a lot of tabletop space, this patchbay looks like a winner. But my studio is about 10x10 feet and includes an electronics repair bench and too much vinyl.
One cool use I made of the Samson is one pair of channels in thru mode so that a boutique compressor's ins and outs are one above the other. In thru mode it will never feed back if disconnected, and it can be dropped into any signal chain with ease.
also got the Samson. Only patchbay with the switches on the front. Found someone in europe who prints custom labels overlays. Really cool.
Samson is the way
Why didnt you make this video 8 years ago when i never could decide if i should get a patchbay or a big mixer ;)
I have 2 of em side by side, love em, great vid thanks!
I ended up getting proco insert snakes so it keeps all the splitting under control without alot of y adapters
@@AlienPhatAlchemy Nice!
Great content. The examples were realistic, useful, and easy to follow. I was feeling a little intimidated when it started, but seeing the equipment and connections and listening as changes were made helped to lock it all in. Nicely done.
🙏🙏Really appreciate that
Welp, That’s exactly the patchbay I was looking for - thanks for the review!
Seems like a small thing, but this form factor is hugely helpful, especially when integrating with small setups. So cool. Thanks. Wouldn't have known about this particular patchbay without the heads-up!
I get my cables tomorrow, but I'm slightly confused by the FX send/return model. I have a stereo compressor. If I understand this correctly, I will take up two channels of FX for each input/output combo (in:R, Out:R on FX1, and In:L, Out:L on FX2) From here, FX1 and 2's top rings will be input jacks, and bottom rings will be output jacks.
I got a little thrown off by the stereo chorus since it was mono in stereo out and my brain wasn't computing the send back into one of the other mixer channels.
Didn't know I needed this, but it's the perfect solution for my setup. Thanks Jorb
Helpful and methodical approach. I bought a Patchulator 8000 from Bored Brain a couple of years ago, and it has saved so many headaches with patching and unpatching, and finding working cables. If I had more gear, I would consider getting this bay . It looks very functional.
🙏 Patchulator is dope, i cant believe i didnt see the similarities
@@JorbLovesGear yeah it is good, but this one has extra routings and the fx separation from the ins/outs is really helpful
Dillip! Fellow BoredBrain user here... WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE OWN ONE!! ITS AMAZING
Been scoping this out for a while!!! Very awesome you made a video of it. You the man brother!! Thanks.
🙏🙏🙏
Thanks for this clear explanation of the minibay, ordered one :)
Looks very interesting, as already 184 other comments state. I have a question…. I cant see any outgoing cable to the mixer or audio interface. Where are they? Thank you.
There are two rows of sockets on the back - they are there but obscured by the ones on top.
I have a mix of synths and modular, so the patch bay shown can also do quarter to mini jack conversions. A few stereo min jacks would also be a bonus.
Watch your levels, but hell yeah
I was enlightened! Great informative video!
This is cool and I could see it being useful for some folks studios. For me it defeats the purpose of having my patch bays as desk space is premium real estate in my studio. Having rack mounted bays is incredibly helpful for space and keeping my cable management tidy. Patch bays are incredibly useful I’m so glad I put them in it makes the workflow SO much easier!
I'm missing something with the effects pedal connection. If it's TRS on the patchbay side and T input R output on the pedal side on the same cable, wouldn't it cause a feedback loop?
No, because they are not connected. You'd get a feedback loop if you inserted a patch cable between the input and output sockets on the top panel (but you wouldn't do that).
Hey Jorb, I recently found your channel (fellow guitarist turned synth-nerd here). You have a gift for explaining things very succinctly. Thanks for the content.
🙏🙏Much appreciated, cheers for that
This is such a great tutorial, and it finally cleared up all of my confusion about patch bays. Thank you!
Thanks for the video! I'm always trying to figure out if a patch bay could be better than my current set up which has all of my outboard gear connected to my medium big mixer (soundcraft 22) and I've got two separate stereo aux sends and another mono aux send, each with their own effects chains. So I can just dial in how much op1 to send to my oto delay and reverb chain, and for fun send some to the volante/vongon/screen violence chain at the same time. Then I can send another synth to my guitar pedal mono chain and get some quirky looping going. It's all aways hooked up in the mixer. This works wonderfully for my production style where I work up a sound situation that I like, experimenting without having to unpatch or patch up anything, and hit record on my daw when I'm ready to record a performance. Downsides are that I wish I could find a mixer with more stereo effects send/returns, and of course I'm giving up the control I might have recording track by track. I prefer it that way though, to avoid spending most of my time editing rather than exploring. If someone has an extra Shure Auxpander lying around please let me know!
Very cool Jorb! Thank you for your content. This is so useful.
🙏🙏happy to do it, cheers
Thanks for this, a very useful tool to have, will have to look into it.
Ah cheers, nice to see you here! Yeah I really enjoyed it
When I first started working in studios, I had to learn about patch bays. Now that I've learned, I'm a HUGE fan!
This is a good idea. Personally, I'd like to see a version of this bay with a multipin connector, like EDAC or D-Sub, instead of 1/4" insert cable. Otherwise, great!
Thanks for the feedback. For which rows would you want the option for a multipin connector?
This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Awesome. Thanks!
Happy to share it!
I have an old mixer with just two mono sends and one stereo return and inserts for each channel, can I use this patchbay to somehow overcome the limitation of the x2 mono sends and x1 stereo return on my mixer? Maybe by using the individual channel inserts? I'm new to mixing routing and parallel fx tecniques
Can’t wait to watch this. I have a patch bay. It’s super useful.
Great desktop patching tool, apart from the fact that mods (normal/half/thru) are hidden inside. Ain't no time to disassemble the box in order to change the signal flow. And since a patch bay is made to gain time while connecting audio devices, one major feature was lost by constructing Minibay the way it is now. Once it is corrected, and should be, I want one. Jorb, Thanks for this presentation :)
I recently reworked my setup so that everything goes to two Erica Synths Matrix Mixers: one for audio routing, one for CV routing. Similar idea + attenuation
Ahh I would love to try one, certainly
I have a few patch bays , and the Erica system looks killer . Wish something was available like it in 19” rack .. in the standard rack the cables are all nice and tucked away round the back , but it can get real messy round the front .. that’s why the Erica system seems so good .. no patch cables and the ability to mult / mix / is massive advantage .. hence the cost .. this thing confuses me and I can’t se the benefits over normal patch bays and a compact mixer for the price ..
Tremendously helpful and informative video. Thank you!
Here's another point I'd like to add related to the Minibay. I know a lot of people who could benefit from this or something like the Patchulator by Bored Brains. If you get your hands on one it might be a nice comparison video where you point out some of the differences between Patchulator, Minibay, and other (more) standard 19" 1u patch bay units.
I bought one of these and I’ve pretty much figured it out..for the most part. If you use stereo pedals with 2 ins and 2 outs, it’s great. I’m having trouble routing pedals with single stereo TRS to dual mono TS (Strymon El Cap V1 & Hologram Microcosm). Has anyone ever tried this?
Just use a TRS to TRS for the input and a TRS to dual TS for the output. Connect the pedal input to A11-12 and the output to B11-12 (for example), then you'll get the same vertical signal flow layout as your other regular pedals on the FX row.
been wanting a patchbay for a while now, and this looks perfect. Thanks for the great demo!
Happy to share it, great formfactor
That is awesome!
Appreciate you jorb. I'm not even into eurorack, but the mpc and deepmind stuff you have put out for free (you can pay if able) makes you a force for good in the world mate.
🙏🙏
Tbh this just makes me happy for my mixer 😅
I think it can be synergistic! But yeah, a good mixer matters big time
Great video Jorb - much appreciated!
Happy to do it sir!
Another key reason to use a patch bay: Its front jacks are durable and *designed* to be plugged and unplugged countless times. The jacks on your musical instruments are frequently not as durable. I've had them get loose and fail, whereas I've never, ever, had a patch bay jack fail.
Ohh, this is perfect - cheap enough to instabuy. My rack mount patchbay is gathering dust, not because of lack of usefulness or fx pedals. The comment about the normalization switches is valid, but not something I do often. My current patchbay requires me to open up the case and switch the orientation of the daughter boards, so the switches are a step up.
Great Video Jorb! Now I know how to use this thing. Thank you so much!
bringing in my modular fx and sending drumachines or synths at them? very cool little piece
Your video is fantastic!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I got a Boredbrain Terminal 2 with which I am going to apply your ideas!👋🏼👋🏼
🙏🙏thanks!
Good review 👍. My 19" rack patchbay is just a filler panel since I switched to a jamming table. This could be used like a versatile snake head for my mixer and currently under-used rack effects. The passive summing mixers would be handy for my modular patches.
Good way to think of it, just a breakout for a whole bunch of mixer connections
This is such a great idea. I've often thought someone should come out with a guitar style loop switcher with multiple inputs designed with synths in mind, bu this is probably a better idea.
You might like the Boredbrain!
@@exister Forgot about those. Will have to check them out.
They do exist but use relay switches if you need stereo, and silent switching. Check out Switchblade 8F. This is not cheap but very powerful.
@@beatnikcafe Will check it out. Thanks
@@trickfall8752 You're welcome!
This is a great explanation on how to use a Patchbay, for people who have never used one this is a must watch. For those who want a great first Patchbay this looks like a no-brainer. The passive summing is a big bonus too. I was on the waitlist for the first run but decided not to buy because of the TRS stereo jacks which for me is a bit of a downside because it requires more adapters. Also, I prefer patchbays that can handle balanced signals. I could still think of a lot of situations where this would be helpful especially for new patchbay users, ergonomically it’s makes a lot of sense, aside from the need for extra adapter cables, it’s a nice layout.
LOL Really? Because I own a normalised patch bay and I seem to be comfortable there, whereas this started breaking my brain in the first minute of the video already.
@@telumatramenti7250 I really thought it was explained well but it could be biased by the fact that I have been using patchbays for a long time. Also, this patchbay does a lot more than a typical patchbay and without explanation I think a lot of people would be completely lost.
@@beatnikcafe Yeah, it does a lot of things, which I think would be more adequately controlled by hard or soft switches instead of patch cables. Don't get me wrong, I like modular synthesizers, it's just that I feel that having to order even more mono patch cables, and Y-adapters on top just to mix and record normally would be an overkill...
@@telumatramenti7250 You proably know this already but just in case someone else can also benefit from this tidbit of advice. If you use a patchbay with all stereo devices you can use TRS cables for patches and use only one patch point for each stereo in and out, so for a mostly synth + stereo effects patchbay you can use a balanced patchbay as an unbalanced stereo patchbay instead. You will still need to deal with y-cables to get all your gear connect to the back but once it's connected patching is much easier and faster since you only have to patch half as many cables. Most synths are unbalanced so you really aren't losing much in the equation if you go that route and so using a standard 19" patchbay would make a lot more sense for that situation.
@@beatnikcafe Damn, just when I got the Kodamo Essence FM synth with 8 balanced mono/4 stereo outputs. LOL Just kidding. Yeah, I get what you're saying, I have 2 of my stereo-capable synths hooked up that way.
Very cool patch bay device. I wonder if a matrix would be easier to manage I/O than mini jacks cables?
Possibly!
Watched 2 vids of you today, what a great channel! #subbed
The fax send technique makes it for me. Thanks
that's a cool little unit, not sure the dip switch inside the box's a good idea, regardless though it's an affordable flexible unit that's perfect for a small/medium set up..cheers man hope you have a good trip to germany
To me, having switches at all is nice, and its not something I would change often. Internal works fine enough for me.
Thanks for the feedback - good to know what's important to people, cheers
Thanks for the video!
I might have missed it but how is build quality? Is it going to last decades?
Feels solid to me. Jacks are all firm, but I wasn't launching it around the room or anything
i try to normalize the minijack connection from a1 to b1 to have the most used connections in the modular always next to them. but doesnt work. is normaling only via jack to minijack?
Normalled connections are between the sockets on the back. When a minijack is plugged in on the top panel, it breaks the normalled connection.
OMG yes! I love this ♥️🤯😱 how have I never seen anything like that before?!
Pretty unique formfactor!
Great video. Thanks!!
🙏Cheers, appreciated
This would be a perfect companion to a 1010 blue box. Also, where was this 3 months ago when I was rewiring my studio and added traditional patch bays? I need this!
Right size for a 1010 setup, absolutely
It's a great product as it employs some original approaches. One issue for me would be that mono patch cables are quite expensive (and I already use a ton on my semi modular synths where they are needed most) and that you would have to also buy a bunch of Y adaptors to work with TRS connectors at the back of the unit. And those adaptors are notoriously flimsy and get easily damaged from ordinary use, I've replaced mine a few times just the last 3 years. I would be far more comfortable with 1/4 Mono connectors and ports, and switches on the top panel to replace most of the ports there. I've long thought of building something like that, I have the case and most of the parts, just need to order a custom built PCB for it.
Maybe but a soldering gun and learn to repair cables that go bad.
@@alexbreyer6921 Part of what I do for living involves repairing PCBs through soldering. Soldering Y cables doesn't work, - the wire tends to break very close to the connector, which necessitates replacing the actual connector. Not only does this make the cable shorter, but these connectors themselves cost so much, that it makes the same sense to buy a new adapter altogether. There are wireless adapters of similar nature, but they are stupidly designed. In order to relieve the pressure created by the weight of the attached cabling, - they need to be angled. Instead, - they are typically straight. I have a whole box of these, once they break, - I keep them for the male end, as I make my own cables with those.
now i want one too! my lazyness will benefit a lot! :)
what about synths that support left and right, each in TRS... is that just simply for grounding issues then? can I still split in the same way using two TRS to the TS/TRS splitter?
Balanced signals passed on TRS jacks, so one TRS for left, and one TRS for right?
to preserve the balanced signal you could use a pair of inter connects for each, or preserve normalling, but yes you're taking up double the tracks.
Or you can run them unbalanced like everything i demo here
Can this be used with balanced rack gear? Something like a stereo delay that takes either TRS or TRS to XLR?
It can, but you'd be doing 2 interconnects for each signal.
If you're all balanced, and need a full bay, get one for balanced cables
Is it actually silent as you plug and unplug stuff? I would expect it to make the awful unplugging sound. Is it just editing for our ears' benefit or have I been doing something uncouth all along
is there any latency between the patch bay and synth. I had to hook up my synth from mixer to interface to record the audio not midi.
playing live between the 2 synth feels not accurate but sound great when playback or midi sync to cubase.
Just returned a neutrik patchbay, was about to slaughter it to build somthng like this. I gave up. Good choice. Good job jorb. Pay the man well.
I wish I had seen this before I got a rack patch.
Question: In these examples, if the multiple synths, sequencer, etc is all patched in and going out to an interface, that means anything recording is on one Left/Right channel? What if you want to separate those for mixing?
im running them into a mixer with multiple channels!
@@JorbLovesGear so it's separating the left and right channel from the one cable to make it isolated instruments? And it's at the same as recording going to the mixer?
Good video and interesting product, thank you. I already use classic patchbays in my studio but it could interest me as this is tabletop thus obvioulsy encouraging for experiments. BUT with regular TS jacks everywhere. And idealy ALL the conections on top, nothing on the back and the normalizing switches accessible on the top too.
I obviously undestand this will impact its tiny form factor but I don't like to deal with 3 types of connections plus Y cables for the same job and having to dismantle the thing to access to the normalizing settings.
So, Minibay's people, gi'me the same but bigger with bigger holes. Something 19'' wide, 3 or 4 U high , and tabletop flat. "The MiniBigBay mk2"? 😄
(actualy I'm reinventing the horizontal lateral patchbays we could find on big studio consoles)
I like that idea, a bit bigger just to have it all on top. Good points!
Thanks for the suggestion - will definitely consider it!
Dang, that looks useful. I play mostly guitar but I keep rearranging my effect pedals … and I’ve got a drum machine … and some synths I’d like to use more … so I could really use this.
Also: what is the story behind that delay pedal?! It looks like you backed over it with a truck.
It would be a great hands on way to quickly move around pedal order, good use case.
I bought it as broken to repair another DD2, but it just needed the switching jack exercised a bit, now its one of my favorite pedals.
Get a BoredBrain Patchulator for fx only routing. You're welcome.! Seriously, itll change your life.
This is brilliant kit. I would use it with older 1/4" out synths like you are. The price point (~USD$200) is right. But $60± shipping per unit (from Thailand) is not. ☹️ I wish they'd get distribution in the US (eg. Perfect Circuit).
Glad you dig it! That $60 shipping is in AUD, so actually about 45 USD. But should be available for 209 USD through Perfect Circuit in August :)
Do you think this minibay can work with modular and its higher levels? I want to be able to use stereo pedals with eurorack sounds.
Yes, but remember it's not changing levels of anything, so if you're worried about getting eurorack level down to line or even instrument level, that's about way more than just how big the jacks are
@@JorbLovesGear Related but not about the product. Why is it stereo send and returns are lacking everywhere? Mixers, modules, etc. This is not directed at you at all... just seems like stereo is a bit scammy when it comes to hardware because they make you buy 2. Sure, I can run stereo direct outs into pedals but the only way I have sort of fought with stereo returns is by using a fancy pedal switcher by G3 that lets you, like the patch bay, use 2 jacks to handle stereo ins and outs. Seems like at this point, we need I/O jacks on everything and we can pick how to configure. Also seems like a great opportunity for advancement in the antiquated mixer world...and Im not talking about tiny baby hand options like Teenage Engineering.
Jorb is good!
🙏🙏🙏
If you plug the insert cable into say the B1&2 jack on the back; which is 1 and which is 2, Tip or Ring? Wondering how this thing is wired that way internally.
Believe it's 1-tip 2-sleeve, but it's been awhile
Looks useful.
Looked on DF’s site but can’t find the answer: does the mixer output balanced or unbalanced signals?
Unbalanced!
A3 on Minilogue!
Is this anything like BoredBrain Patchulator v2?
Sort of, just not so specific of a format
@jorb …. I can find 6.35 stereo TRS to 6.35 female TRS but can’t find stereo to mono TS . Will a female TRS connection work?
Male TRS to two female TRS is essentially a headphone splitter - it won't work.
I am guessing not but do they ship with any patch cables?
Nope!
You can order patch cables on the website - 30 AUD (approx 22 USD) for a pack of 12.
7:12 thats how you pull out other peoples cables... lol
My OCD would kill me with all the cables. I try to keep my setup clean... Midi cables are bad enough. Awesome idea though, looks like it could be fun. It'd be cool if you could pull the synth outputs and send them to some eurorack units
Yep, Minibay makes it pretty easy to hook regular gear into Eurorack.
I am a bit confused on how to run full stereo FX on it with mono signals and I also don't get which side is L and which is R on the fx outs..
Explained here: th-cam.com/video/jhK5vf5Ns5w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=fZ7yGI-nwlTQ8gwx&t=256
Nice
🙏
I went to their site. It says excluding GST but it doesn't say what GST is.
No GST
Cant use the fx section for eurorack without adapters, bc 1/4 trs to 1/8 ts cables are non existant. Bummer
Check out the Nanopatch X and M (also from DF Audio) which will be shipping soon.
its work to patch signal pedal at the middle of a eurorack patch?
Yes, you could patch straight from a modular system into the top panel of the Minibay. The only problem would be the levels. But we (DF Audio) have got something coming out soon to solve that problem :)
Interesting. I bought a patchbay, but for some reason when I try to think about creative routing it hurts my brain.
Just try things, don't even plan ahead
I see the appeal of having it in this form factor instead of a rackmounted unit.
But the TRS to 2x TS split is a bit stupid, as well as the 1/8th inch jacks on top mixed with 1/4 inch jacks in the back. These 2 make it a bit of a fad instead of a decent product. Also having to use burried dipswitches for the normalled mode is a let down.
Make it with just plain (balanced) mono channels and uniform jack sizes, preferably 1/4 inch if you target synth users, or a 1/8 inch version for when you target modular users. And have the normalled mode switches on top per track.
And now you have a unit that is versatile and doesn't need Y-splitters, 1/4 inch to 1/8inch adapters and doesn't require you to jump trough hoops to get it to work the way you want with mono and stereo sources, destinations and effects. Then again, you've just made a regular patchbay, only a desktop model instead of rack mounted one.
To be fair, the 2 mults are a nice addition.
They have enough real estate on the top between the rows to put in 'normaling' toggle switches - when they launch Version 2 with those switches (hint hint) I will be buying at least 2 !!!!
Thanks for the suggestion - working on it ;)