Edit at the top because my below message still stands I just want to add an extra piece: A lot of people (like honestly a solid 40% of comments) are making excellent points against mine, mostly in very respectful ways which certainly helps. Put bluntly: a lot of stuff in this video is wrong, be it from being outdated, my inexperience with the game while writing the script or something else entirely. Do I still stand by my opinions in these? Most of them. I've seen points from others which have fully shifted my own thoughts (such as sliding being shoehorned in, this isn't true Rory from 2 weeks ago). Thanks for reading this if you did, edited part over! Hello! Because I made a video like this before I just want to make something clear, since negativity stands out about 3 times more positivity. I do like this game! A lot, actually! I've been having fun playing deadlock, especially on bebop but it's because of this enjoyment that I can be critical. I want this game to succeed more than I want Persona 6 to get announced (if you know me then you know this is a pretty big claim), which is why I'm eyeing up and speaking about any issues in the game that stand out to me personally more than I would in other games. Basically what I'm saying is I'm not bitching for the sake of bitching, I'm bitching because I'm a little bitch who wants to bitch less. Ya get me?
I want to agree but for live-service things don't work like that, just go back further than OW and try to think of "halo killer", 343 did it themselves. To an lesser extent, but still proves my point of ongoing game is Path of Exile, doens't really matter how many Diablos get released, only GGG themselves can kill that game
"safe to leave" after leaver is from DotA. Fighting 5v4, with 25% more income, is definitely winnable. I've won many 5v4, 5v3, and 5v2 matches (each fewer player gives you more income). However, it's most winnable when all the remaining players try. If they don't want to, the chances of a competitive game drops drastically. In this scenario, safe to leave is good, since them leaving gives the remaining players an income buff; those who leave would've been dead weight otherwise as they think the game is over. Think of it like League's surrender but per player. Important to note that safe to leave only kicks after 5 minutes of play time without the leaver reconnecting or when the leaver confirms that they have no intention to reconnect. It's common to pause the game as we wait for reconnection (the 5 minutes until "safe to leave" also pauses). It's a lot of power to give to players, but i would say pausing is definitely a benefit. You can always report abuse of pause and leavers. I am very happy pausing is in DotA.
Its also important to note that repeat offenders just get banned from the alpha test lol. There is indeed a penalty, the biggest kind of penalty for the perpatrator.
regarding your point about the game lacking complex strategies such as jungling - i think it’s important to point out that it took years for jungling to become a fleshed out role in league. people didn’t realise its strength and we didn’t have the item and system adjustments needed to actually allow jungle to be a proper role. similar story for support as a role. considering deadlock isn’t even released yet - i don’t think that it fundamentally doesn’t have strategy. heck, i think the roles being so vestigial is just because giving the team roles is usually a community driven endeavour. i’ve had games with my friends where we’ve decided to switch one of the duo laners into one of the solo lanes to give that lane a huge early advantage, then allow said duo laner to rotate back to their original lane and gank. roles and strategies may develop by themselves overtime with no developer input
Deadlock to me feels like game where a multitalented gamer could do well. Moba knowledge, great aim skills, game knowledge, and movement. The skill requirements at high levels could go crazy, but being a mix of many things there is the danger of Mobas that there is too much to learn. Devs have indicated a understanding of this problem and don't want to info dump new players so as always time will tell how the new player experience will turn out. Game has a great foundation and it all comes down to execution. Will be playing myself to see how if it evolves to something I could like long term.
I'm very dissapointed in how subjective this video is about things that are done different than in the league. As if in LOL whole team wouldn't have surrounded if one player abandoned 5 minutes ago (considering it's a closed alpha game and punishing people for potentional server issues is wild). As if league has good tutorials explaining all of the hidden mechanics in depth (again, closed alpha, complex game, hastly changing). I grasped all of the mechanics from a single 7min video on yb. Plus I've discovered "browse builds" button on my first game. Roofs and rarity of long-range attacks are critised, as if we all just love getting snipped in the head from god-knows-where. And woods comparision is just top tier. Like, you expected to grasp macro plays and all of the nuances just from several games with noobs? I watch high-mmr streamers and i call tell that powerups/runes/spirit urn/forest/midboss/push gives a pretty reach territory to explore. I'm not nesesery appaled to the idea of the critique of this game, i'm not a die-hard fan. But arguments were very whacky. For me, the game feels great. Starting a new online game, expecially moba, expecially shooter almost always feels bad - typically you just got dominated and understand no shit. But I enjoyed even my first few games in deadlock anyhow, and i see people with near 1k hours still loving the game, which says a lot
I have around 300 hours and half the fun of the game is lost to me when i realized how easy scaling gun dmg is compared to defenses or casters why? Because of bullet base dmg increases exist from levels while spell base dmg is the same whole game aside from upgrading and items give tony flat ammounts of flat dmg , while weapon items give ridiculous 25% boosts at 500 souls , that 500 soul item gives more dps than the most expensive 9800 sporit item that gives 60 spirit alowing you to maybe deal 100 extra dmg each 10 seconds lol
FYI bebop has a projectile speed listed on his gun. If it were truly hitscan, you'd be able to deny every orb which is not the case as your distance to the orb matters. (Plus the fact that confirmers are favored if both hit the orb at the same time)
@BatteredWalrus the fact people do love the art style is fuckin great as well!! It just doesn't scratch my brain, though that may change as we get closer to release (in fairness I do love bebops design I like jank ass scrap robots) Edit: I can't spell lmao
@@d_camara Riot hired one original DOTA dev, they fired him in 2016. Other of the two original DOTA devs were hired by Valve and still work there. I don't know where this "most of the people" comes from.
This is just a small point in the video but the i fw the artstyle HEAVY. Im so sick and tired of the fantastical/futuristic/fantastical future style that so many damn games are going for. I refreshing setting like Deadlock’s is always so nice
You gotta start dash-sliding and dash-jumping more, the slide mechanic is arguable the single most important mechanic in the entire game and good players can traverse trough the map incredibly quickly with good movement. There's a ton of opportunities to slide both in an out of combat once you get good at the movement mechanics in the game.
yeah saying the slide is shoehorned in is just wrong, sliding after dash/dashjump is so nice, and sliding on the stairs against guardians is also super fun. The slide works so well in making the movement feel great, not sure why he feels its "shoehorned"
yeah, and the why you can slide only in dash or sprint animation is to acknowledge how poweful of a tool it is, so you have to invest resources (stamina) to make it work. if that wouldn't be the case I think everyone would be sliding 24/7 and it would really be tiring in the laning phase.
I don't think Valve will stray away too far from the "fast projectile gun" type of weapons because they want soul denying to be as close to equal as it can get across the board. If such a restraint wasn't made I'd love to see a flamethrower or a full on melee type. Also besides Bebop I think nobody has a hitscan weapon. They are just really really fast projectiles.
@@ruzgar1372 that's the exact problem, I don't enjoy how they all act very similar but if they're not then some characters just get absolutely fecked, imagine if yamato only had her right click, she would barely be able to contest souls Like really it's me nitpicking I understand why it can't happen but more weapons like viscous/Kelvin would at least be more interesting to me, as they still have the "haha fast projectile" but there's other aspects to them that make them less like generic guns (hurling slime at people is just funny I can't lie)
That's annoying but a compromise :( this is the kind of game I'd love seeing (actual short range high spread) shotguns and flamethrowers and granade launchers on. Would make the itemization very interesting, give advantages and disadvantages in map areas and segments of the lanes
I think you're underselling how big of a pull having a moba with good shooter mechanics actually is. speaking from experience, I, and nearly all of my friends, have never bothered playing mobas before deadlock. The sheer fact that the movement is what it is, that I have to aim in the early game laning, that the perspective is 3rd person, that the map has verticality, that all of these disparate things are here just flips the game on it's head. I will say I don't think it sounds good at all on paper - it sounds like a mess. But I watched maybe 5 minutes of gameplay and was sold almost instantly. what innovation do you want? Getting these two halves of game to work together is a nightmare, and this criticism feels like reaching more than anything to me. I can claim any game needs to be more innovative, even like... The Outer Wilds. That's not really the case, but I guess it could've been more innovative somehow. but Deadlock is already intensely dense with mechanical execution and strategy. There's no room for some innovative extra layer. Btw, there are roofs you can stand on, just not all of them, and some of them are pretty dang high up, especially after the last patch. and... I think it does very much succeed as a shooter, at the least. I don't know if I'm experienced enough with MOBA's to say it succeeds there. But shooter's don't 'need to be long ranged'. This is another point that feels very forced. Close range shooting is also fun and requires a different kind of aiming skill, and it's something that tends to not exist in other shooters because of how fast you die in those games. Those sustained close engagements with people using their movements to juke your shots and you trying to read those movements is incredibly compelling when placed on top of the MOBA teamfight environment to me. The movement tools are all geared around this too - slide included, because the key thing a slide does that dash jumps don't is turn corners. the wall jump that just got added is also pretty sick though a lot harder to intentionally use. I understand what you're saying about how many characters just have guns, but I don't think I or many players mind when every gun feels different still, and encourages different itemization The items seem well thought out, it's hard to not progress your character universally, yet you do need to be particular about your item build to get really good results. Almost every item has some condition for you to think about which stops items from feeling like flat progression (flat progression is instead just on every item). The jungle is small on the XY plane so it's fast to move from lane to lane but you also have to consider how much stamina you want to spend to get across to the lane And the actual jungle is just stuffed full of rooms and camps places and nooks and cranny's to hide in in a really neat way to me. I think the jungle is horrifically underutilized at the moment considering how many souls you get and the positioning you get, even though I don't think there will be a jungler role because the game seems intent on preventing that kind of hard set roles in the first place Which is also a decision I agree with because it allows diversity and adjustment through the match while still requiring all those similar results from your team. I appreciate your bitching, but I don't really think the arguments hold water.
i get where ur coming from for the infernus build but i really see it differently personally the way in my mind the design was meant to go was that infernus is a poke style hero, with the very fact his 3rd skill not only burns and does annoying dot to pester enemies, but it also being completely passive (unlucky maybe seven for example whose 3rd skill is also a primary gun augment but on a cooldown and active) really leaning into this design. with that in mind, i feel that the rest of his kit is focused on either being ultra defensive if u get dived- since u can easlily use skill 2 to run away or ult to create some peel- or to go in and finish an enemy you already made low with ur spam and dot from ur primary fire what backs this up further imo is the fact that his dash cooldown is really long, so the infernus player has to choose whether to use it to engage or save it in case of a gank and run away, which leans into his poke playstyle, where he really wants to poke heavily first, and when he is sure he can get the kill, he can then dash in and get the kill; if not he;s pretty fucked since without his 2nd skill dash his survivability isnt too great tldr i think he was designed to be a poke style character and with that in mind his abilitiy design does make sense
You ask for innovation, but there is no other game like it (besides Smite), and a lot of people who played it are enjoying it if it's not broken, don't fix it
@@TwoSouthFarm well dota was split into two. the icefrog camp and the guinsoo camp. And before that, they both work on dota for warcraft 3. So when league was first made, it was just like dota in terms of mechanics but slowly shifted into its own thing. I won't talk about the drama but there's plenty of it on youtube. but the gist of things if you're interested.
about lack of proper tutorials, this is basicaly thechnical alpha, not eve an early access or anything. Many mechanics are still being changed and added, Build browser was added ona patch ago basically, sicne last patch lane guardians no loger grant ability points for the team, but its still in the tutorial, so imo this can be forgiven for now. Its not a public release, there is no marketing, they are looking for core gamplay feedback at the moment and i think once most of the mechanics are finalised they will make a proper tutorial. Its an issue for sure, new player experience for modas always is, but its not something i would stres to much over in an alpha. Also idk man theese characters are soo cool, and the world too. Vocelineas are great and there are already a lot of inriguing detalis that make me want to keep up with the game just for that. But good video anyway, good luck to devs (both valve and atlus haha)
As someone with a lot of interest in game design, moba & shooter experience, and who loves this exact type of video, I have to tell you I disagree with every single criticism of the game except for Valve not telling you about builds. The hero kits you point out as incohesive (Geist and Infernus) are very synergistic, slides are extremely useful and there are staircases all over the map. Forcing players to sit in a game that is literally unfair once someone leaves is a terrible idea. Your understanding of even Yamato's kit is limited. It would be one-dimensional if you played against target dummies, but in real games against real players, using her abilities in the exact same order all the time is completely nonsensical. I absolutely cannot comprehend how you say of Deadlock that it is not innovative, or does not have a hook. It plays like absolutely nothing else. This whole video feels like it was written in one afternoon, and never examined, sanity checked, or thought about more deeply than whatever you first wrote. There was no hint of self-reflection on your biases or limitations, nor seemingly any consultation of outside perspectives (else you would have quickly found out why people are allowed to leave once one person abandons.) And yet you present this video as a serious critique of the game's limitations. During the entire video I was wishing I could actually discuss your points with you, talk to you about this because I have no idea how you would have reacted to any of the counter-arguments I would have offered, whether you considered them or not, or whether I simply misunderstood something. From the outside, the opinions in this video seem incredibly surface-level. For the record, I don't think you being good or not determines whether or not you are allowed to express your opinion about the game, but I think your focus should have been different. I also don't mean any personal insult and disrespect and I wish you success in the future whether you take this feedback on board or not.
This game has hooked me like no other game had in forever. I personally don't like mobas at all, but deadlock scratches an itch that no ther game had for me
It definitely innovates by innovating on the dota gameplay loop. It's basically dota 3. Theres clever design choices that smoothes the rough edges that dota had.
When it comes to teaching a new player the mechanics, one of the devs working on it "yoshi", said that they don't tell you everything, so the player doesn't get overwhelmed with information. What do you think about it Rory?
@@taintedazazel7238 I find there to be a difference with overwhelming with information Vs not presenting information. Like infinite ammo sliding, I only discovered by accident after playing for a week. Not mentioning it in the tutorial? Valid! Since the tutorial is just glorified text boxes reading for controls. In the other tutorial section (where you're dropped in the training range) if one of the quest things said "shoot an enemy while sliding" that allows the player to learn it in that moment. If they don't? Oh well! You stuck to your guns of not overwhelming them and it's not like the infinite ammo thing is CRITICAL I like their tutorial personally, much better than the OW one (which I've discussed in a video before) My "fix" in hindsight is far from perfect because I overwhelmed with information, the details of which I'll spare you but I certainly like their approach to teaching the game, I just wish somewhere in the game the information was available, ya know?
Intresting choice of background music at 4:10 Rory 👀 Been meaning to get around to check this out sometime just not had the motivation since getting a key, might need to do so now so thanks for the reminder
"there's nothing unique except the characters and the concept" doesn't sell your argument, it's like saying "there's nothing unique except everything the game offers"
Playing dota makes majority if not entirely of deadlock makes sense and feels natural, I’d even go as far as to say that deadlock is the next valve game that will influence the industry for years, again spawning copycat titles.
i get where u are coming from and definitely agree to an extent that deadlock hasnt innovated too greatly outside of its premise, and i think that makes sense considering valves legacy of literally taking other products and perfecting them, rather than making their own games (look at the origin of dota, portal, cs, tf) however, i think there are certain innovations that does make it more than just a bog standard moba that has guns 1. ziplines. i swear to god if theres is one thing i love the most about deadlock it is the goddman ziplines i cant stress enough how cringe and lame it is in traditional mobas for such a large chunk of downtime literally being u having to slowly recall to base and then walking to lane at a literal snails pace; like that just feels horrible. The zipline existing, with the zipline boost added no less, really helps with this shitty feeling of downtime since now ur not just taking a long 40 second walk back to lane you can just zip over and also allows for u to switch lanes easily. if nothing else at all seems innovative i would argue at the very least the ziplines are such a great addition and i cannot stress how much i love it 2. denying cs, you brought it up so i dont need to elaborate but honestly is that not an execllent example of their innovation, taking a moba concept and adapting it id say near perfectly to a tps format
Deadlock improves and kinda innovates the "time that we waste" aspect, tired of going back and forth to base and lane wasting a lot of precious time and getting severely punished by not wanting to die because you have 1 hp? get the zipline and use the boost if you are in a hurry, and you also get a advantage if you take the first tower, you push them back and they cant buy items anymore on the convenient store. taking the enemy farm is really cool, and it creates a new """""role""""/objective when playing duos, if you are too fucked negate their farm, if you want to fuck them even more negate their farm as much as you can
@@PixelRory plus i think it streamlines the shop too, like whatever you buy in a certain category it always improves you no matter what you dont have “shit”builds just better ones. Also i dont see your point of not punishing peoples reloads by delaying the souls. The delay feels reasonable and absolutely nooobody has enough time to reload in that time bro. You see it punished a bunch of times. Also just the souls mechanic alone when farming is an innovation on the last hit thing adapted to a shooter perfectly.
I think this game will appeal to the OW1 players that miss the MOBA elements that were lost when OW2 came out. I’m optimistic about this games future. This is the closest we’ve had to a 50/50 hero shooter MOBA. I’m not a huge fan of the art style either but I love what I’ve seen so far. It’s needs a console release to really be successful though, at least that’s my opinion
@@anasnabil4697 correct. I say this in the video. As my audience is about 70% OW players that's why I emphasized that they're very different games (also because Twitter has been on a rampage the last week or so but tbh when isn't it)
Slide, always slide. All your movement combos should end up in slide. Only Bebop uses hitscan. Well good players use Ivy as both DPS and semi-support. Multiple build guides is available for every hero. Pause feature is needed. Valve games are played in many countries where good internet connection and 24 hours electricity are lacking. Though they already nerfed the pause feature. Mid boss buff already changed multiple times(it was instant respawn 3 weeks ago). Maybe will change more in the future. Technically you are still playtesting the game. So there is no cosmetic shops and good tutorials. Brows build option will function same as Dota 2, where most popular guides will be your default guide. The main hook of Deadlock is, it is a good Shooter Moba. And Mobas are addictive. On top of it is also a 'movement shooter' made in source engine. Movements in Source engine are incredibly satisfying( Counter strike, portal, Team fortress 2, Titanfall 2, Apex legends). In Dota 2 there is no dedicated jungler role. Also jungle in Dealock is not properly developed yet. Jungle creeps are still placeholders from it's previous version(Neon prime). Devs don't want you to camp from the rooftops of tall buildings, where other heroes can't reach
The artstyle isn't something that's going to move but I do know that a lot of the character designs are probably going to get reworked. Yamato in paticular was a model repurosed from a defunct sci-fi game that doesnt really fit, so thats an obvious change.
Bro what you mean: ”there nothing unique within the game exept the consept and the characters” brotha thats a whole game! Deadlock is the most unique game we’ve gotten in ages youre just yapping.
Too much rants compared to the amount of actual criticism. How can you complain about the recommended build? Just because it's not the best build for Infernus doesn't mean it isn't viable and there literally is no meta yet. Also, Valve usually designs characters to have a lot of playstyle options compared to having a linear build path. All that said, I completely agree with what you said about the lack of core gameplay.
I wouldn't say "there's not many slopes in this game," more specifically the tons of slopes in the game aren't where you'd want them to be Its slightly unfortunate that you chose to premier this vid, some of the things you address actually got fixed like spam pausing 😅
@@joeybobbson2622 premiere or not my deadline for this was today with the video being finished last night (...at 4am) so I don't really get a choice with it regardless lmao
So, you want the rest of the team to sit around and play at an unfair disadvantage for 40min, only to slowly and eventually lose the game? I don’t know about you, but that’s not fun for me.
It's important to note that the build system is incredible unique compared to every MOBA, and the bonus is that it's based on Dota 2, and not baby game League of Legends. Like, the build system where there's class of items and you're limited to slots leaves a lot of build diversity, comparatively to something like LoL which is just super linear.
5:50 Well that's just too bad for ya, buster! Before becoming Deadlock this game was called Neon Prime, Valve even registered the trademark, see? Doesn't take a brain scientist to figure out what the style of Neon Prime was, before it had to be redesigned all quick-like. Boy that early feedback must've been _rough._
EHHHH ALMOST 10K! Ihighly enjoy league and overwatch but deadlock seems a bit too complicated and good lord is it slow. I’ve had fun but idk if it’s something I’ll put a lot of time into. I like the artstyle and diverse characters but where is my cute girly pop character. I heard they’re getting a Crazy cat lady so v excited for her but idk
Edit at the top because my below message still stands I just want to add an extra piece: A lot of people (like honestly a solid 40% of comments) are making excellent points against mine, mostly in very respectful ways which certainly helps. Put bluntly: a lot of stuff in this video is wrong, be it from being outdated, my inexperience with the game while writing the script or something else entirely. Do I still stand by my opinions in these? Most of them. I've seen points from others which have fully shifted my own thoughts (such as sliding being shoehorned in, this isn't true Rory from 2 weeks ago).
Thanks for reading this if you did, edited part over!
Hello! Because I made a video like this before I just want to make something clear, since negativity stands out about 3 times more positivity.
I do like this game! A lot, actually! I've been having fun playing deadlock, especially on bebop but it's because of this enjoyment that I can be critical.
I want this game to succeed more than I want Persona 6 to get announced (if you know me then you know this is a pretty big claim), which is why I'm eyeing up and speaking about any issues in the game that stand out to me personally more than I would in other games.
Basically what I'm saying is I'm not bitching for the sake of bitching, I'm bitching because I'm a little bitch who wants to bitch less. Ya get me?
@@PixelRory no, the word bitch lost its meaning in my head after the first 4
I mean, Overwatch 2 killed Overwatch 1. Overwatch did something that other hero shooters couldn't, being an overwatch killer.
I want to agree but for live-service things don't work like that, just go back further than OW and try to think of "halo killer", 343 did it themselves. To an lesser extent, but still proves my point of ongoing game is Path of Exile, doens't really matter how many Diablos get released, only GGG themselves can kill that game
"safe to leave" after leaver is from DotA.
Fighting 5v4, with 25% more income, is definitely winnable.
I've won many 5v4, 5v3, and 5v2 matches (each fewer player gives you more income).
However, it's most winnable when all the remaining players try. If they don't want to, the chances of a competitive game drops drastically.
In this scenario, safe to leave is good, since them leaving gives the remaining players an income buff; those who leave would've been dead weight otherwise as they think the game is over. Think of it like League's surrender but per player.
Important to note that safe to leave only kicks after 5 minutes of play time without the leaver reconnecting or when the leaver confirms that they have no intention to reconnect.
It's common to pause the game as we wait for reconnection (the 5 minutes until "safe to leave" also pauses).
It's a lot of power to give to players, but i would say pausing is definitely a benefit.
You can always report abuse of pause and leavers.
I am very happy pausing is in DotA.
Its also important to note that repeat offenders just get banned from the alpha test lol. There is indeed a penalty, the biggest kind of penalty for the perpatrator.
regarding your point about the game lacking complex strategies such as jungling - i think it’s important to point out that it took years for jungling to become a fleshed out role in league. people didn’t realise its strength and we didn’t have the item and system adjustments needed to actually allow jungle to be a proper role. similar story for support as a role. considering deadlock isn’t even released yet - i don’t think that it fundamentally doesn’t have strategy. heck, i think the roles being so vestigial is just because giving the team roles is usually a community driven endeavour. i’ve had games with my friends where we’ve decided to switch one of the duo laners into one of the solo lanes to give that lane a huge early advantage, then allow said duo laner to rotate back to their original lane and gank. roles and strategies may develop by themselves overtime with no developer input
The best part of this is that.... There is jungle in Deadlock, people farm, he just does not know how to farm good.
Dota 2 don't have a dedicated jungler LOL is a f.... Tutorial
Deadlock to me feels like game where a multitalented gamer could do well. Moba knowledge, great aim skills, game knowledge, and movement. The skill requirements at high levels could go crazy, but being a mix of many things there is the danger of Mobas that there is too much to learn. Devs have indicated a understanding of this problem and don't want to info dump new players so as always time will tell how the new player experience will turn out. Game has a great foundation and it all comes down to execution. Will be playing myself to see how if it evolves to something I could like long term.
I'm very dissapointed in how subjective this video is about things that are done different than in the league. As if in LOL whole team wouldn't have surrounded if one player abandoned 5 minutes ago (considering it's a closed alpha game and punishing people for potentional server issues is wild). As if league has good tutorials explaining all of the hidden mechanics in depth (again, closed alpha, complex game, hastly changing). I grasped all of the mechanics from a single 7min video on yb. Plus I've discovered "browse builds" button on my first game.
Roofs and rarity of long-range attacks are critised, as if we all just love getting snipped in the head from god-knows-where.
And woods comparision is just top tier. Like, you expected to grasp macro plays and all of the nuances just from several games with noobs? I watch high-mmr streamers and i call tell that powerups/runes/spirit urn/forest/midboss/push gives a pretty reach territory to explore.
I'm not nesesery appaled to the idea of the critique of this game, i'm not a die-hard fan. But arguments were very whacky.
For me, the game feels great. Starting a new online game, expecially moba, expecially shooter almost always feels bad - typically you just got dominated and understand no shit. But I enjoyed even my first few games in deadlock anyhow, and i see people with near 1k hours still loving the game, which says a lot
I have around 300 hours and half the fun of the game is lost to me when i realized how easy scaling gun dmg is compared to defenses or casters why? Because of bullet base dmg increases exist from levels while spell base dmg is the same whole game aside from upgrading and items give tony flat ammounts of flat dmg , while weapon items give ridiculous 25% boosts at 500 souls , that 500 soul item gives more dps than the most expensive 9800 sporit item that gives 60 spirit alowing you to maybe deal 100 extra dmg each 10 seconds lol
Fun fact, only bebop has a hitscan weapon, everyone else is using projectiles
FYI bebop has a projectile speed listed on his gun. If it were truly hitscan, you'd be able to deny every orb which is not the case as your distance to the orb matters. (Plus the fact that confirmers are favored if both hit the orb at the same time)
Aesthetically, the game gives me Hellboy/screw on head meets Incredibles vibes, and I love it.
NO ONE IS MENTIONING SKULLGIRLS!!
did that game really fell off 😔
@BatteredWalrus the fact people do love the art style is fuckin great as well!! It just doesn't scratch my brain, though that may change as we get closer to release (in fairness I do love bebops design I like jank ass scrap robots)
Edit: I can't spell lmao
@@vltraviolence7640 NO! it's still alive and kicking!
The same people who made this game also made TF2 and Dota... The inspiration for Overwatch and LoL... It has come full circle.
Most of the people that made Dota made LoL, which was supposed to be Dota 2, but wasn't because there was some conflicts
@@d_camara Riot hired one original DOTA dev, they fired him in 2016. Other of the two original DOTA devs were hired by Valve and still work there.
I don't know where this "most of the people" comes from.
This is just a small point in the video but the i fw the artstyle HEAVY. Im so sick and tired of the fantastical/futuristic/fantastical future style that so many damn games are going for. I refreshing setting like Deadlock’s is always so nice
You gotta start dash-sliding and dash-jumping more, the slide mechanic is arguable the single most important mechanic in the entire game and good players can traverse trough the map incredibly quickly with good movement. There's a ton of opportunities to slide both in an out of combat once you get good at the movement mechanics in the game.
There are also Viscous movement techs
yeah saying the slide is shoehorned in is just wrong, sliding after dash/dashjump is so nice, and sliding on the stairs against guardians is also super fun. The slide works so well in making the movement feel great, not sure why he feels its "shoehorned"
@@shnitzel9052 not to mention when you get enough fire rate and shotgun boost slide with shiv. Shit is so fun.
yeah, and the why you can slide only in dash or sprint animation is to acknowledge how poweful of a tool it is, so you have to invest resources (stamina) to make it work. if that wouldn't be the case I think everyone would be sliding 24/7 and it would really be tiring in the laning phase.
I don't think Valve will stray away too far from the "fast projectile gun" type of weapons because they want soul denying to be as close to equal as it can get across the board. If such a restraint wasn't made I'd love to see a flamethrower or a full on melee type. Also besides Bebop I think nobody has a hitscan weapon. They are just really really fast projectiles.
Bebop is also a projectile, it's only visually a lazer
@@ruzgar1372 that's the exact problem, I don't enjoy how they all act very similar but if they're not then some characters just get absolutely fecked, imagine if yamato only had her right click, she would barely be able to contest souls
Like really it's me nitpicking I understand why it can't happen but more weapons like viscous/Kelvin would at least be more interesting to me, as they still have the "haha fast projectile" but there's other aspects to them that make them less like generic guns (hurling slime at people is just funny I can't lie)
full auto projectiles sounds really cpu intensive, especially with how open this map is
That's annoying but a compromise :( this is the kind of game I'd love seeing (actual short range high spread) shotguns and flamethrowers and granade launchers on. Would make the itemization very interesting, give advantages and disadvantages in map areas and segments of the lanes
I think you're underselling how big of a pull having a moba with good shooter mechanics actually is. speaking from experience, I, and nearly all of my friends, have never bothered playing mobas before deadlock. The sheer fact that the movement is what it is, that I have to aim in the early game laning, that the perspective is 3rd person, that the map has verticality, that all of these disparate things are here just flips the game on it's head. I will say I don't think it sounds good at all on paper - it sounds like a mess. But I watched maybe 5 minutes of gameplay and was sold almost instantly.
what innovation do you want? Getting these two halves of game to work together is a nightmare, and this criticism feels like reaching more than anything to me. I can claim any game needs to be more innovative, even like... The Outer Wilds. That's not really the case, but I guess it could've been more innovative somehow. but Deadlock is already intensely dense with mechanical execution and strategy. There's no room for some innovative extra layer.
Btw, there are roofs you can stand on, just not all of them, and some of them are pretty dang high up, especially after the last patch.
and... I think it does very much succeed as a shooter, at the least. I don't know if I'm experienced enough with MOBA's to say it succeeds there. But shooter's don't 'need to be long ranged'. This is another point that feels very forced. Close range shooting is also fun and requires a different kind of aiming skill, and it's something that tends to not exist in other shooters because of how fast you die in those games. Those sustained close engagements with people using their movements to juke your shots and you trying to read those movements is incredibly compelling when placed on top of the MOBA teamfight environment to me. The movement tools are all geared around this too - slide included, because the key thing a slide does that dash jumps don't is turn corners. the wall jump that just got added is also pretty sick though a lot harder to intentionally use. I understand what you're saying about how many characters just have guns, but I don't think I or many players mind when every gun feels different still, and encourages different itemization
The items seem well thought out, it's hard to not progress your character universally, yet you do need to be particular about your item build to get really good results. Almost every item has some condition for you to think about which stops items from feeling like flat progression (flat progression is instead just on every item). The jungle is small on the XY plane so it's fast to move from lane to lane but you also have to consider how much stamina you want to spend to get across to the lane
And the actual jungle is just stuffed full of rooms and camps places and nooks and cranny's to hide in in a really neat way to me.
I think the jungle is horrifically underutilized at the moment considering how many souls you get and the positioning you get, even though I don't think there will be a jungler role because the game seems intent on preventing that kind of hard set roles in the first place
Which is also a decision I agree with because it allows diversity and adjustment through the match while still requiring all those similar results from your team.
I appreciate your bitching, but I don't really think the arguments hold water.
i get where ur coming from for the infernus build but i really see it differently personally
the way in my mind the design was meant to go was that infernus is a poke style hero, with the very fact his 3rd skill not only burns and does annoying dot to pester enemies, but it also being completely passive (unlucky maybe seven for example whose 3rd skill is also a primary gun augment but on a cooldown and active) really leaning into this design. with that in mind, i feel that the rest of his kit is focused on either being ultra defensive if u get dived- since u can easlily use skill 2 to run away or ult to create some peel- or to go in and finish an enemy you already made low with ur spam and dot from ur primary fire
what backs this up further imo is the fact that his dash cooldown is really long, so the infernus player has to choose whether to use it to engage or save it in case of a gank and run away, which leans into his poke playstyle, where he really wants to poke heavily first, and when he is sure he can get the kill, he can then dash in and get the kill; if not he;s pretty fucked since without his 2nd skill dash his survivability isnt too great
tldr i think he was designed to be a poke style character and with that in mind his abilitiy design does make sense
Im sorry but this video is extreamly subjective ,some of the critics are good but most seems like personal pet peeve
You ask for innovation, but there is no other game like it (besides Smite), and a lot of people who played it are enjoying it
if it's not broken, don't fix it
It doesn’t even feel like SMITE due to the shooter feel of it.
Deny is already a MOBA mechanic, really just shows your knowledge about the genre.
Only Dota 2 and HoN have it. LoL removed it for "burden of knowledge" then complains when the wave is too pushed forward
@@aiaoi5048Wait. LoL actually has deny mechanic in the past? That’s wild
@@TwoSouthFarm well dota was split into two. the icefrog camp and the guinsoo camp. And before that, they both work on dota for warcraft 3. So when league was first made, it was just like dota in terms of mechanics but slowly shifted into its own thing. I won't talk about the drama but there's plenty of it on youtube. but the gist of things if you're interested.
@@TwoSouthFarmduring beta i think
about lack of proper tutorials, this is basicaly thechnical alpha, not eve an early access or anything. Many mechanics are still being changed and added, Build browser was added ona patch ago basically, sicne last patch lane guardians no loger grant ability points for the team, but its still in the tutorial, so imo this can be forgiven for now. Its not a public release, there is no marketing, they are looking for core gamplay feedback at the moment and i think once most of the mechanics are finalised they will make a proper tutorial. Its an issue for sure, new player experience for modas always is, but its not something i would stres to much over in an alpha.
Also idk man theese characters are soo cool, and the world too. Vocelineas are great and there are already a lot of inriguing detalis that make me want to keep up with the game just for that.
But good video anyway, good luck to devs (both valve and atlus haha)
As someone with a lot of interest in game design, moba & shooter experience, and who loves this exact type of video, I have to tell you I disagree with every single criticism of the game except for Valve not telling you about builds.
The hero kits you point out as incohesive (Geist and Infernus) are very synergistic, slides are extremely useful and there are staircases all over the map. Forcing players to sit in a game that is literally unfair once someone leaves is a terrible idea. Your understanding of even Yamato's kit is limited. It would be one-dimensional if you played against target dummies, but in real games against real players, using her abilities in the exact same order all the time is completely nonsensical. I absolutely cannot comprehend how you say of Deadlock that it is not innovative, or does not have a hook. It plays like absolutely nothing else. This whole video feels like it was written in one afternoon, and never examined, sanity checked, or thought about more deeply than whatever you first wrote. There was no hint of self-reflection on your biases or limitations, nor seemingly any consultation of outside perspectives (else you would have quickly found out why people are allowed to leave once one person abandons.) And yet you present this video as a serious critique of the game's limitations. During the entire video I was wishing I could actually discuss your points with you, talk to you about this because I have no idea how you would have reacted to any of the counter-arguments I would have offered, whether you considered them or not, or whether I simply misunderstood something. From the outside, the opinions in this video seem incredibly surface-level.
For the record, I don't think you being good or not determines whether or not you are allowed to express your opinion about the game, but I think your focus should have been different.
I also don't mean any personal insult and disrespect and I wish you success in the future whether you take this feedback on board or not.
This game has hooked me like no other game had in forever. I personally don't like mobas at all, but deadlock scratches an itch that no ther game had for me
It definitely innovates by innovating on the dota gameplay loop. It's basically dota 3. Theres clever design choices that smoothes the rough edges that dota had.
When it comes to teaching a new player the mechanics, one of the devs working on it "yoshi", said that they don't tell you everything, so the player doesn't get overwhelmed with information.
What do you think about it Rory?
@@taintedazazel7238 I find there to be a difference with overwhelming with information Vs not presenting information.
Like infinite ammo sliding, I only discovered by accident after playing for a week.
Not mentioning it in the tutorial? Valid! Since the tutorial is just glorified text boxes reading for controls.
In the other tutorial section (where you're dropped in the training range) if one of the quest things said "shoot an enemy while sliding" that allows the player to learn it in that moment. If they don't? Oh well! You stuck to your guns of not overwhelming them and it's not like the infinite ammo thing is CRITICAL
I like their tutorial personally, much better than the OW one (which I've discussed in a video before)
My "fix" in hindsight is far from perfect because I overwhelmed with information, the details of which I'll spare you but I certainly like their approach to teaching the game, I just wish somewhere in the game the information was available, ya know?
I like the editing in this video, good stuff man keep it up
Intresting choice of background music at 4:10 Rory 👀
Been meaning to get around to check this out sometime just not had the motivation since getting a key, might need to do so now so thanks for the reminder
@@MagicalPurpleMan blame pyra from the discord
@@PixelRory It's a certified bop to be fair.🕺
"there's nothing unique except the characters and the concept" doesn't sell your argument, it's like saying "there's nothing unique except everything the game offers"
Playing dota makes majority if not entirely of deadlock makes sense and feels natural, I’d even go as far as to say that deadlock is the next valve game that will influence the industry for years, again spawning copycat titles.
Watch Riot games come up with a copycat in the next few years, as they have always done in the past.
i get where u are coming from and definitely agree to an extent that deadlock hasnt innovated too greatly outside of its premise, and i think that makes sense considering valves legacy of literally taking other products and perfecting them, rather than making their own games (look at the origin of dota, portal, cs, tf)
however, i think there are certain innovations that does make it more than just a bog standard moba that has guns
1. ziplines. i swear to god if theres is one thing i love the most about deadlock it is the goddman ziplines i cant stress enough how cringe and lame it is in traditional mobas for such a large chunk of downtime literally being u having to slowly recall to base and then walking to lane at a literal snails pace; like that just feels horrible. The zipline existing, with the zipline boost added no less, really helps with this shitty feeling of downtime since now ur not just taking a long 40 second walk back to lane you can just zip over and also allows for u to switch lanes easily. if nothing else at all seems innovative i would argue at the very least the ziplines are such a great addition and i cannot stress how much i love it
2. denying cs, you brought it up so i dont need to elaborate but honestly is that not an execllent example of their innovation, taking a moba concept and adapting it id say near perfectly to a tps format
@@the_odr9166 the zipline speedups are peak I should have mentioned that fuck
Deadlock improves and kinda innovates the "time that we waste" aspect, tired of going back and forth to base and lane wasting a lot of precious time and getting severely punished by not wanting to die because you have 1 hp? get the zipline and use the boost if you are in a hurry, and you also get a advantage if you take the first tower, you push them back and they cant buy items anymore on the convenient store.
taking the enemy farm is really cool, and it creates a new """""role""""/objective when playing duos, if you are too fucked negate their farm, if you want to fuck them even more negate their farm as much as you can
@@PixelRory plus i think it streamlines the shop too, like whatever you buy in a certain category it always improves you no matter what you dont have “shit”builds just better ones. Also i dont see your point of not punishing peoples reloads by delaying the souls. The delay feels reasonable and absolutely nooobody has enough time to reload in that time bro. You see it punished a bunch of times. Also just the souls mechanic alone when farming is an innovation on the last hit thing adapted to a shooter perfectly.
I think this game will appeal to the OW1 players that miss the MOBA elements that were lost when OW2 came out. I’m optimistic about this games future. This is the closest we’ve had to a 50/50 hero shooter MOBA. I’m not a huge fan of the art style either but I love what I’ve seen so far. It’s needs a console release to really be successful though, at least that’s my opinion
how is this game direct competition with overwatch. its very different game. it close to moba than hero shooter imo.
@@anasnabil4697 correct. I say this in the video.
As my audience is about 70% OW players that's why I emphasized that they're very different games (also because Twitter has been on a rampage the last week or so but tbh when isn't it)
Slide, always slide. All your movement combos should end up in slide. Only Bebop uses hitscan. Well good players use Ivy as both DPS and semi-support. Multiple build guides is available for every hero. Pause feature is needed. Valve games are played in many countries where good internet connection and 24 hours electricity are lacking. Though they already nerfed the pause feature. Mid boss buff already changed multiple times(it was instant respawn 3 weeks ago). Maybe will change more in the future. Technically you are still playtesting the game. So there is no cosmetic shops and good tutorials. Brows build option will function same as Dota 2, where most popular guides will be your default guide. The main hook of Deadlock is, it is a good Shooter Moba. And Mobas are addictive. On top of it is also a 'movement shooter' made in source engine. Movements in Source engine are incredibly satisfying( Counter strike, portal, Team fortress 2, Titanfall 2, Apex legends). In Dota 2 there is no dedicated jungler role. Also jungle in Dealock is not properly developed yet. Jungle creeps are still placeholders from it's previous version(Neon prime). Devs don't want you to camp from the rooftops of tall buildings, where other heroes can't reach
The artstyle isn't something that's going to move but I do know that a lot of the character designs are probably going to get reworked. Yamato in paticular was a model repurosed from a defunct sci-fi game that doesnt really fit, so thats an obvious change.
Idk if u forgot but it's literally a playtest, a lot of the things there are placeholders...
The kits are not to do specialst thing.
Its more about giving players lot of options
Bro what you mean: ”there nothing unique within the game exept the consept and the characters” brotha thats a whole game! Deadlock is the most unique game we’ve gotten in ages youre just yapping.
All innovation is from inspiration, but not all inspiration is innovation.
imo, keeping fights to close ramge is 150% a positive
A rant for an alpha game is a necessary feedback.
where's the song at 4:10 from?
@@FiddsOnYou third one in the description, don't ask any further questions my discord members are strange people
@@PixelRory I've fallen for the classic blunder,,, not checking the description. Thank you!
@@FiddsOnYou anytime! (That song is so scary to credit because. Look go find it and you'll understand why)
The title should be changed to something more nutreal
Bro forgot about mecha break
Too much rants compared to the amount of actual criticism. How can you complain about the recommended build? Just because it's not the best build for Infernus doesn't mean it isn't viable and there literally is no meta yet. Also, Valve usually designs characters to have a lot of playstyle options compared to having a linear build path. All that said, I completely agree with what you said about the lack of core gameplay.
I wouldn't say "there's not many slopes in this game," more specifically the tons of slopes in the game aren't where you'd want them to be
Its slightly unfortunate that you chose to premier this vid, some of the things you address actually got fixed like spam pausing 😅
@@joeybobbson2622 premiere or not my deadline for this was today with the video being finished last night (...at 4am) so I don't really get a choice with it regardless lmao
you get punished for leaving like 2+ games in quick succession
Seriously? It took you 7 hrs to see the Browse Build? Then again you only had played LoL. Riot never gave a fuck about their audience anyways.
8:03 Did you know that viscous shoot a jelly / slime which is a part of her body, which mean u might get shot by her lower juice.
Love the vid day 20, soon 10k subs, ya...
So, you want the rest of the team to sit around and play at an unfair disadvantage for 40min, only to slowly and eventually lose the game? I don’t know about you, but that’s not fun for me.
Day 27 of asking for an Irish Review of Risk of Rain (Dealock? More like Deadcock haha gottem)
The unhinged stuff going on in the discord right now smh
It's important to note that the build system is incredible unique compared to every MOBA, and the bonus is that it's based on Dota 2, and not baby game League of Legends.
Like, the build system where there's class of items and you're limited to slots leaves a lot of build diversity, comparatively to something like LoL which is just super linear.
Dude complaining about things not being explained while the game is in alpha. Chill out dude, things coming...
Did people actually give a shit about overwatch?
5:50 Well that's just too bad for ya, buster! Before becoming Deadlock this game was called Neon Prime, Valve even registered the trademark, see?
Doesn't take a brain scientist to figure out what the style of Neon Prime was, before it had to be redesigned all quick-like. Boy that early feedback must've been _rough._
Quality of this vid is that of a 'tuber with hundreds of thousands if not millions of subs, keep it up
meh. Getting mixed signals throughout the video. No points came across. Biased point from different game instead of treating the game as is.
EHHHH ALMOST 10K! Ihighly enjoy league and overwatch but deadlock seems a bit too complicated and good lord is it slow. I’ve had fun but idk if it’s something I’ll put a lot of time into. I like the artstyle and diverse characters but where is my cute girly pop character. I heard they’re getting a Crazy cat lady so v excited for her but idk
:D
For all have sinned and the wages of sin is death but the free gift of god is eternal life in Christ Jesus God alone
This is such a bad hot take.
Kinda dumb video because the game is in a early state
Key for me? 👉🏻🥹👈🏻