How Much Is a Tree Worth?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- One of the most common questions in forestry is how much standing timber is worth, so here is how you can estimate the value of individual standing trees. While it requires a lot of assumptions and a bit of educated judgement, it isn't a difficult to estimate.
0:00 -Intro
0:31 - The Data You Need
1:00 - Estimating Volume
3:35 - Using a Biltmore Stick
6:53 - Merchandizing Stems
11:38 - Measuring the Tree
14:17 - Stumpage and Timber Values
17:49 - Results
Resources:
Board Foot Volume Table and instructions:
thetimberlandinvestor.com/how...
Stumpages Price Resources by State:
thetimberlandinvestor.com/stu...
Measuring Diameter:
thetimberlandinvestor.com/how...
What Affects Stumpage Value?:
thetimberlandinvestor.com/how...
🌲Get my free guide to DIY forest Management to learn more about how to manage your property: thetimberlandinvestor.com/how-to-read-your-forest-an-intro-to-diy-forest-management
🌲Take the Silviculture Course: thetimberlandinvestor.com/enroll-in-our-silviculture-course/
🌲Take the Tree Felling Course: thetimberlandinvestor.com/enroll-in-our-tree-felling-course/
interesting ... so that 605 feet of timber-tree ... what's your estimate on it's weight? 1 ton? 3 ton?
As a former teacher I tend to watch videos on a variety of subjects and subscribe only when the presenter is clear, articulate, engaging, knowledgeable, has a pleasant voice and uses a vocabulary which is above a 5th grade level. You struck bullseyes on all those characteristics. You are an excellent teacher. There is quite a bit of information for a layman to absorb in this video. While I could certainly stop it at any time and come back later (which I will) my only suggestion would be to either subdivide within this one presentation (parts 1,2,3 for instance) or offer the viewer (perhaps 3) different videos to form a whole on the topic. Having offered my humble suggestion I nevertheless thoroughly enjoyed this video.Bravo!!
I think the teacher assumed correctly than most people tuning in would have completed some basic forestry pre-requisites. TH-cam courses are designed to appeal to a wide range of learners who can easily press the pause button at any point they feel left behind, or leave the class if the material too basic. These videos are primers and shouldn't be confused with the learning that comes from reading.
Retired from logging 30 years ago from NY in the Catskill Mountains. 1 man operation. Paid 40% for veneer and 33 1/3 for the rest. These prices were from the sawmill that I sold to AFTER Trucking charges were taking out which was $50 per thousand board feet. Have not followed prices of course but Red Oak Veneer was $1200 a board foot. In comparison pine and hemlock was only 15 cents a board foot. If a homeowner was concerned with the payment or what the property is going to look like , I had the landowner meet with other homeowners to talk and walk my previous jobs. If you do not like what you hear or what you seen then I am not for you. I also on my contract set up the lot in sections. Say 20 acres divided into 4 5acre sections. I was not allowed to go to the next section until the homeowner and I walked the just logged section to make sure he had no concerns on how his land looks and did he get paid correctly. Had lots lined up for years and years doing it this way but age does have a way of catching up to you. Just remember the only thing worse than a crooked logger is a crooked forester. Happy to answer any landowners questions or concerns.
Really useful information, you're a natural teacher. Thanks for making the video.
I own and live on 10 acres that is packed with beautiful mature hardwoods. I have just converted to burning wood for heat with the economy as it is and have been asking myself this very question. You have really shined a light on it for me. Thanks and good luck with the channel.
Best explanation I’ve seen thus far, thanks.
I'm currently looking at harvesting 40 acres of my timber full of oaks and walnuts. But don't know much about timber buyer practices, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible and this video helps
Your gonna be a millionaire
Don't cut until you learn . There are a lot of unscrupulous people out there looking for people like you. They will promise you the world, hit and run, and leave you with a god awful mess.
CONSIDER covering All your timber to 2x4s, 2x6s, 2x8, ect, then figure out how much lumber it will take to build a 2500 Sq. Ft. House. I have not seen your timber but I Gan tee you there is a minimum of 40-60 houses on the forty acres. Do the math or get a relative to do the math. Buy a saw Mill and mill ALL your trees your self. WITH that much wealth you can just be the supervisor and hire help to do the milling. Some sawmill companies finance the mills & will sell the mill and provide all the training needed. The ..... will tell you no one build with hard wood but ignore them. The net will show you how. And every harvester heavey equipment do more damage to the land than you would be expecting. 👍👍👍👍
@@obbiebeal3060 good to know, I was considering a sawmill to handle some of my own trees, I would be interested in knowing how or who buys the cut pieces? better to sell to individuals or companies? I have seen what the loggers do to property and I am only wanting to cut a small percentage so I'm on my own I guess.
No he's not.
Thank you for creating this very helpful. I learned a LOT, which is going to help me tremendously deciding how too best manage some property I recently purchased. Thanks again.
I have to say I found this video very useful. You answered just about every question I had about pricing out lumber. Not to mention how surprised I was when you said you were in Maine and then Androscoggin county...I grew up in the Lewiston / Auburn area. Keep these videos coming, you're doing a great job.
He's pricing timber, not lumber. That's a whole other bag of worms. He didn't mention where the stumpage money goes. Here in Vermont it's generally divided equally 3 ways between the logger, the trucker and the landowner.
For a layman like myself this video is super interesting and great to know. Thank you.
Ex-Forester here - good content! We typically used a biltmore for the smaller diameter trees but a D-Tape for larger as it's more accurate.
This is fantastic information and well delivered! your going to be a big hit among farmers and sustainability regenerative farmers . I reposted this video to my Gab gardening group ( gab is not what you have been told it is, so dont be shocked, lol we just love our country and the constitution ) ....and well do all I an to share with you. You should try to network with channels that have anything to do with selling raw land with trees, to get subs but also to inform people, like myself, who are looking for land what to do with their trees, which one to leave up, how to sell their timber. At the cost of homes in Florida, I am looking to buy land and seeing what I can do ..would be very helpful. Thank you and Be Blessed!
Best video ive seen on this! Thank you!
Nice video. A Basis is the best possible action for a landowner to estimate stand value. Helpful when marketing and at tax time.
Great video, presented very well.
Acorn production is also another way to estimate the vale of a tree like the red oak. Many species of trees have many different ways to provide economic value to humans.
I am not trying to downplay the value of timber. I own a tree farm that values trees for timber and others sources of revenue. I own a sawmill myself and I do use my trees for timber value as well.
Good video and thanks for supporting trees!
Great video! Thank you !
Great vid. Fantastic resources in your posted comment below vid. Ive been looking for something to help me see potential tree value by species and fell flat. One for the entire country helps a ton. Its its own rabbit hole to figuring out what your trees are worth.
The trees aren't worth that much if you figure in paying taxes on the ground they grow in for 40 to 80 years between harvests. The financial incentive is to buy well stock woodlands, strip it off and then sell it off as cabin lots. Owning and managing forest land responsibly doesn't pay and needs to be incentivised if we want forests to remain in our environment.
Thank you for making this video
Retired forester here (western Oregon). Great video, nice concise explanation!
Nit pick: that's a "Tree & Log Scale stick", not a "Biltmore stick".
Suggested graphic for the part where log values are explained:
Stumpage Value = Pond Value - Logging Costs
We called it a biltmore stick forty years ago at WSU
Brings back, old memories of walk in the stand of trees..... writing on the piece of paper 300 500 750..ECT..... Is coming up with maybe 50,00 70,000 -150,000 250,000..... Then I would buy it for round $15 per 1000 board foot...... And I would sell Is the logs to the mill between a $130 TO $150 per 1000 board feet......... It was always real fun. Walking and estimating a standard trees, especially as I got more and more experienced........ You get good with a pencil paper and a wildazz guess......good times...
Great video
Good info, thanks
Interestingly enough I got the stick before learning what one was or how yo use it. 5 dollars at a yardsell and it's an antique from 1890s. Has some lettering still but can't tell where it's from but the numbers are still good!
Thank you very much!
Thank for you information. I want know to estimate intrinsic value company
good information.
good video! thanks
I enjoy your videos.
Good explanation of tree estimating. It sure seems owners are suffering a very modest return on timber stumpage prices. Id turn that red oak into firewood before i let anyone have it for $150. Your subtle point is that everyone who touches your tree gets a slice and significantly reduces your income.
How many hours would you have in it to turn it into firewood, then how much profit once you sold the firewood? Figure 1 hour to drop and drag it out of the woods, another hour to cut it into firewood lengths, then 2 hours to split into firewood, that tree would yield a bit over a cord. So sale value of about $350-$400 minus your 4 hours of labor at $50 per hour, is about $150-200 profit. Does that sound about right?
@@blackbeardlawncare7811 Nope, it's likely not enough hours in processing ;)
I would suggest that everyone touching your tree is adding value, not getting a slice of your income. To get the board foot price for kiln dried lumber, you need to bring kiln dried lumber to market. It absolutely can be done profitably on a small scale, but there's a significant investment in equipment and a lot of working hours that go into it.
@@peterellis4262 So the math is even worse! All that work turning it into firewood and you would have made more profit doing nothing but letting someone else do the work.
@@peterellis4262 complete BS. Are they adding value to the owner- absolutely not. If they were the owner would be making more money; if value isn’t money it’s not value.
How would you value lumber from kiri tree/ paulownia elongata hybrid? I don’t see much from mills or buyers valuing price per board foot
I have about 2 acres of forest to clear and I found your video quite interesting. I'm new to this. Is it best to cut in 8 foot or 16 foot lengths? I'm hoping 8 foot lengths as it would be easier to move around.
Definitely check with the mill you would be selling the logs to. Most will accept 8 footers just fine, but some have a 10 foot minimum. In either case, they will likely have other specifications that will save you trouble to know ahead of time.
In a timber harvest I did last fall, the mill accepted up to 16 feet, but I only cut 10 and 12 footers to make it easier for my machinery.
I live in an old Juglans Hindsii orcahrd. Northern Calif Black Walnut, the only real "Claro" walnut. cut 4 trees in 2018-19 and let them cure, bought a mill last year I also pulled the stumps. The root system on Hindsii is monsterous. I just milled two small root/stumps. amazing colors. Cut one tree in late November and sealed it with paint and wax and will mill it 'Soon". Today I am researching Value of my walnut.. Have maybe 2000bdft so far. Each tree has its own special colors, they are amazing, oranges, yellows, reds, greens, chocolat.....
Subbed. Thank you!
Thank you
Can I use it for Vietnam's forest?
Thanks
This was very helpful. I'm now in NH (my dads side of the family is from ME) and looking into logging some of my properties at some point. Let me know if you do consulting (owners rep work you mentioned), and I can email you. Thank you!
most timber cutters work on a percentage pay back to the timber owner. Most states Forestry Departments will cruise your timber and give you a recemdation on harvest processes.
As a person who sees trees frequently I found this to be interesting.
excellent video, what could be the income from the same red oak if you sell it as logs or boards?
That can get really tricky. the various board foot scales are not totally accurate, they are more just a fair and standard custom that approximates yield in a consistent way. So not only is the actual yield going to vary a bit, but it will depend on value-added processes. Is it rough or planed? Green or kiln dried? While the pricing may not be perfect, Ive been seeing kiln-dried, rough red oak going for $5-$8/BF, so at an average of $6.5, that's $3900 in lumber.. Not bad.
For logs, though, you can usually predict the value of logs by doubling the stumpage rate.
There was a houise down the road from me that had a big old tree, can't remember if ti was maple or oak, that just stopped producing leaves. When I saw the crew cutting it down, I walked by a few times during the morning, I saw that it had no rot inside, solid wood, and as it lay horizontally in the sling, comparing it to the guy working next to it, I would say it was between 4' and 5' in diameter. I wondered what the value of that tree was. The number of very wide boards you could get out of it was mind boggling.
Very good qestion 👍👍 Like a painting, how much someone want to pay.
Cheers
What's the market value for Afzelia africana commonly known as doussi
Question: How much should the stumpage value from a timber survey figure into the cost of a plot of land? Also - is there a cut off for large diameter trees that are too big and mills just won't take?
Very good video. I've helped do a few timber surveys years ago and still remember a lot about it.
At best the timber survey figure minus a logging cost might figure into the cost of land. Most mills cut off the maximum butt size at 31 inches and take about a third off the value as they generally remanufacture it and truck it away to a mill that deals with larger logs.
@@HubertofLiegeThanks for the info!
I'm looking at about 140 acres of land that's mostly creek bottom with some very large hardwood and pine. Hilltop areas have all been logged and are replanted pine plantation. I have a decent size (60" blade I think currently on it) circular mill that I want to bring down and set up so I'm primarily interested in the land and the larger hardwood timber and the land itself. Been an outdoorsman and currently construction manager, but I'm very green when it comes to valuing investment timber land or figuring out how to even make an offer. The land is currently held by a timber investment company, but they regularly sell portions of holdings.
@@entrepreneursfinest keep in mind prices and log grades are regionally influenced so what works in one area doesnt in another.
@@HubertofLiege I had thought about that. I need to find someone local I believe that understands the market. I'll have to do some looking around.
@@entrepreneursfinest where are you?
Ah truer words are rarely spoken. 0:24
I have 14 acres of 50-60 ft pine & oak to be removed in Conroe Texas .... where can I find sommeone to mill them for my housing project.... Starts June 2024
Great video. You've earned a like and subscribe from me.
I wished you would have used an updated price sheet. White Oak has gone way up and Red Oak way down
What kind of tree in pricing
@thetimberlandinvestor a question for you:
We have a large property with some large trees. Western Cedars and Douglas Fir, some Maple and Hemlock, with a three foot to five foot diameter. We are looking at clearing some trees from one side of the road, as they drop too many large limbs onto the road now and are throwing too much shade. There are about 15 of these big old trees and we were recently talking to a semi-retired logger who helps us take down some dangerous trees every few year and he offered us a proposition: He will manage the logging of these trees for a fee of 50% of what the mill pays, after the trucking cost. The idea is that we would use the other 50% of the proceeds to re and re the land afterward, getting rid of the limbs and repairing the ground and gravel road.
I appreciate this video as a source of gathering information about the value of trees, but it's hard for me to estimate because the way I understand it, we would be selling the mill logs and dividing the proceeds with the logger (We will be the ones getting a timbermark to sell the logs) rather than going through the process of charging a stumpage fee to the logger. I appreciate that the logger doesn't want to get involved financially and buy the logs on the stump, and we have no problem splitting the amount the mill pays once we subtract the trucking fees.
My question is, are you familiar with this kind of arrangement occuring for just a truckload or two of logs, and if so do you know of any pitfalls that may be lurking in such an arrangement. Again, these are large, very high quality trees that have been growing in a park-like setting for over a century. Two people can't reach to join hands around many of them.
Lastly, if the arrangement is common, do you think the proposition of the 50/50 split is in line with common practice?
Thank you for this video. I will be checking out your others.
Going by the information you provided, that sounds incredibly fair.
Splitting revenue after trucking is very common and is increasingly becoming the norm. It helps eliminate variables and risk for BOTH parties. And within those agreements, yeah, 50/50 is basically the industry standard. It can go up to 60/40 for situations with valuable trees and efficient harvest, but you have to remember it is expensive to move equipment and get a job set up for only a couple truck loads. In light of that, it sounds like a fair deal, especially if its someone you already have a working relationship with.
Hope that helps. Thanks!
Thanks @@thetimberlandinvestor for the quick and thorough reply. I was thinking along the same lines. The trees are right by the edge of the road, making for easy extraction, but the somewhat remote location and the fact that there aren't that many trees kind of balances against that. We also have a working relationship of sorts already, which we want to maintain, so 50/50 sounds totally fair.
Much appreciated.
@@Propsman416cedar, fir, hemlock and maple sounds like the PNW. Most mills pay less for logs with a butt size over 31 inches, although there are a few around still, but they too base their price for large diameter logs off this market reality. The big mills have a retooled for small logs from tree farms. 50/50 is common.
@@HubertofLiege Yes, you're correct. PNW. Thanks for the info and confirmation on the deal structure.
Our logger deals with large trees in the area so I'm hoping he knows of mills that can process the large logs. As a woodworker I hate to think of such large trees not ending up as some larger timbers. Timber framers could be the market for some of these logs, as well as furniture makers who do slab tables and such. So here's hoping they will get cut for quality yeild and go to the proper wholesaler.
Kind of sad that the larger logs are so few that the smaller logs are driving the market, but I guess that's what we get with improved "efficiencies" in harvesting, building, and the marketing overseas of our logs and timber. Mother nature can't keep up with the demand, not by a long shot.
I’ve brought veneer wild cherry, red and white oak, sugar maple and walnut. Some 100’ tall and three logs before a branch and the tops were so good that they produced board feet of pallet scrag. And still yielded well under 600 usable board feet of salable timber. This tree can not achieve 400 board feet even if you counted 1”x1”x4’s
My area " southern Oregon" is measured by a board foot price.
Most of my properties hold Douglas firr. Three years ago I harvested at $1,150 a board foot. In 2014 I harvested at $810 a board foot.
It's about $810 now so too low for me to harvest with labor prices up.
That's OK it will always be there, and yes I replant.
Sorry I meant 1, 000 board foot pricing
Curious. How many ‘trees’ have you sold?
How much is it worth? How much will it cost to get rid of it?
I have an oak tree at my house back yard that is over 3ft diameter. It is too big . I do not use a camp fire wood. Can I sell it to someone who needs it? Here is the fairfax VA.
Excellent information. My only suggestion to make it better is to switch poses/shots every few minutes. Some people tend to lose concentration when you're in the same spot too long. Very minor detail, just thought I'd mention as you strive for excellence.
Was wondering if I could find someone to buy 2/ 60-70 ft. Chinese chestnut trees. Never produce any nuts so don't want them. So maybe they'd want for something like furniture? Or would there be no interest for only 2 trees?
Where are you located?
@@danielheisig4258 Southeast.
China@@danielheisig4258
Do trees really have "sides"? Good info.
Insides and outsides.
On the sawmill, they do
Meanwhile in the metric world a french architect watches on in terror
I’d be excited at $5 per tree.
Harvest in winter when the ground is frozen and there is snow. Much less ground disturbance from machines.
I nod my head pretending to understand. I would hire you to come and give me an estimate and trust your opinion.
If that oak is 605 feet, then 5 of those trees will about fill a triaxle log truck.
I know from long experience that is not even close to reality.
It will take at least 10 of those to fill a truck, and it will scale out at 3400 feet if the scaler likes you.
I'm a hardwood logger also. You're right at 3300 to 3400 ft
Most hardwood individual trees isn't worth as much as people think
Takes a pretty good size tree to be 600ft
Them trees better be good ones to yeild that much money per acre. Things like this makes land owners think they have more than they do.
Yeah there’s no shot that tree had 600 bf in it, not knockin the guy, maybe he hasn’t cut/scaled/sold many trees. Maybe that oak held significant diameter 48’ up the trunk, I just doubt it.
noice... my guy... noice
Most sawmills do not take 16 foot red oak logs. Logs are 8 foot 10 foot 12 foot 14 foot .
I had acreage in Pennsylvania for years when the timber people got done taking out the timber thank God I had a bulldozer to redo my roads and they also bent over some of the oil well heads because of dragging the logs around I wouldn’t have those people take my land now if I had to starve to death Jerry Mcdonogh
Guys watch videos like yours misunderstand all of it and then call the company I log for and start asking when we can come out and give them their 8000$ lol
Even if I harvested the the trees.... The saw mills wont even take them if I delivered the logs to the saw mill ! ! They wont even talk to you about a price on the cut log ! Thats because they would have to pay a lot more because the work has been done ! The price would still be firewood price !
!
Good lord. Did you say "long story short"? WRONG. Lol. Good video, about double or more what it needs to be. Thanks for the info.
Right, so 66 feet away, every 6" increment...
Anyone else see anything typically tell-tale about these numbers?
It's bad enough that it's all over Hollywood, gaming and entertainment, but in logging too? Sigh...
When I sell a tree to myself its worth millions of dollars. No wait, it's only worth a few cents. So confused.
i am bored from my head to my feet watching this
Board...😂
Got wondering if I should lmfao greedy
Hmmmm how many logs are in a " log " ????? Come again ???? A " log " is a log......I always thought !
A standard log is usually defined as a 16' piece, sometimes 8' or 10' depending on the scale
@@thetimberlandinvestor Again...as you state here.....a " log " then how can there be two logs in one ????? An interesting tree !
Holy shit this should have been a 3 minute video
Ugh so how much is the tree worth finally?
Way too long winded. We are not going to go out and start working for a lumber company. We just want a quick overview.
1000 per big black walnut tree
dam dude turn the volume down almost blew my ears out
Too many words.
158 bucks for a red oak that size!? Compared to what red oak lumber is going for these days!? I'd rather burn it for firewood than let the stores make a killing. Not worth it
I promise you no one in the forestry is making a killing. Trees are worth the least because A LOT of work must be done to put it on a shelf in the form of a board. Think of it this way:
The tree has to be felled, limbed, and processed into logs.
The logs have to be hauled to the road on rough terrain with expensive equipment.
Logs then have to be loaded onto a truck and carried sometimes hundreds of miles to a mill.
The mill unloads the logs onto a pile, only to later load them back onto a truck for transport into the actual facility.
After milling (which is of course incredibly labor and/or capital intensive), the boards must be kiln dried, which is incredibly energy intensive.
Then they are planed.
Then the mill markets the wood usually to a wholesaler, so wood has to be carried via truck or train often thousands of miles to a warehouse, only to finally be distributed to a regional retailer.
Out of all those transactions, the landowner has the highest profit margins in most cases.
@@thetimberlandinvestor after taxes the landowner loses
@@victorhopper6774 Not true. Timber sales are taxed as capital gains, while every other transaction in the supply chain in taxed as ordinary income.
The landowner gets the best deal in the entire industry.
@@thetimberlandinvestor nonsense does not matter as property tax is the killer not income tax. unless you own in a state with huge woodland tax breaks there is no profit. thats why trees are let grow on junk land.
@@victorhopper6774 Property taxes are tricky as they vary from state to state and even town to town, and yes, you need to do your research like any real estate based investment, but broadly speaking they arent a limiting factor for profitability.
In Maine for example, we have probably some of the best tax breaks in the nation. But we also have more limited ability to profit on our land due to the tradition of open use of private property. Outside of the northeast, hunting leases alone are an opportunity for revenues that can and often do pay off the property taxes and then some, especially if any habitat improvement is done.
The problem is the landowners forget their land is a business. They ignore it for 50 years and wonder why they don't make anything.
Good info. By chaos theory, you've caused horrible storms all over the world. If a butterfly wing can do it, your hands waving for the whole video are, for sure, a global hazard! Other than that, you did good for a beginner. ?
You must be a consultant. Ughhh
Difference between a consultant and a forester is $100000 a year.
For the guy who owns property and wants his trees cut for profit. He's going to get ripped off. It. sounds like there's a lot of variables in favor of the logging company
Not really. The landowner doesn't really take on any risk. He's not going to get rich off of a timber harvest, but it represents a steady ROI over time. Loggers, on the other hand, can and do lose astronomical amounts of money on a regular basis.
No sane person would pay 500 bucks for a single tree.
It's possible for specialty logs like birds eye maple to reach $2,000 for a single log. But it certainly isn't common.
Terrible
As a former student I ignore most things and can't wait till school is over!:)
50 million dollars a tree
Give somebody a go pro and they're an expert on everything. You don't know how many feet are in that log or that tree. Until It's on the ground. It could be hollow You need to tell them you're guessing estimating what. How many feet are in a log? By lengths and size. Judging by your hands. You aint done S*** for hard work.
Do you need a hug, Boo ? It'll be alright.
Great video
!