Wow, didn't mean to spawn such controversy about this... I thought I'd write up a little statement in this pinned comment. Hope this helps clarify some things. :) First of all, for the most part I do stuff like this to learn and gain experience. I might as well have practiced on another board before doing this to my Amiga but, hey, it worked out very well. (If you watch carefully, you will see that I lifted 1 pad. And that was one that was badly corroded by the leaking cap that sat on it before. So I really don't blame it on the SMD cap removal method.) Sorry if I hurt any Amiga enthusiasts' feelings (rest assured I am one myself). Speaking of the removal of SMDs, I carefully researched my options there and I found that many people who I trust being professionals or at least very well educated electronics wise suggested the "twist and remove" method as the one that puts the least stress on the board in the end. (One of the sources I trust here is Mr Carlson's Lab who clearly recommends this method: th-cam.com/video/X8N9O3a9jiM/w-d-xo.html .) Plus, I don't have any hot air or reflow oven stuff (yet), so this method seemed reasonable. As for replacing electrolytics with ceramics: I am well aware of the fact that ceramics behave VERY differently in circuits and change their capacitance with voltage applied to them and temperature. That's why I researched this matter very carefully and found that there's a lot of people for whom this worked (and has so for years). I talked to some of them personally (okay, via the interwebs). There's even a bunch of people who do exactly these mods commercially (at least here in Germany). I chose caps that have a higher voltage rating than the originals so that the capacitance would only change ever so slightly (as it also does in electrolytics with age). I understand that most of the caps in the A1200 only ever see
When mr.carlson showed that video I lost ALL respect for him. twisting caps like that. actually that video went "viral" at some Amigacommunitys of: even people who should be pros does it just WRONG.
To be fair I think its interesting and I have mixed feelings and thoughts here. Some people learn quicker faster ways of doing things, and those methods might be unorthodox and have risk associated - this is a classic example of that. When you get to the point where you are skilled enough to do a professional job, but it takes a certain amount of time, and you then find a much quicker (but risky way of doing it), often people will learn to cut corners. The technique with things like this is key - but there is always a risk of damage. What I have learnt is that I don't WANT to take the risk - I personally prefer to use hot air and guarantee that I won't lift a pad. I think it generally comes down to two groups of people 1) People that want to do a professional job without any risk to the board 2) People that are hobbyist and just want a quick way to get from A to B, and if they have to patch the odd trace they aren't bothered. So I can see why you are frustrated, it's definitely not the best way to do it, but people have been doing things the wrong way ever since there was a right way lol (me included). All that said, I am glad there are people like you (and RetroGameModz) that point out these things and try to educate people on why not to do something a certain way.
Twisting off SMD electrolytic caps doesn't really hurt the board. They have small flat legs that tear easily. Honestly it's the oldest trick in the book for removing those type of caps. For many years I have seen techs do that. Replacing the electrolytic with ceramic caps isn't that bad of an idea. However making sure what part of the circuit it is going to be used for. With digital electronics you'll see caps used for filtering the power supply to the IC to help stop oscillation. However for analog electronics it's typically used to filter out DC. So say for an example the audio path of a amplifier I would stick with the electrolytic since ceramic has a piezoelectric effect. Not to mention since electrolytic is polarized it can help stop feedback into the circuit. I think you had a nice suscess for that project. You can always go with a higher voltage dip electrolytic cap, typically typically stuff like this uses up to 100uF unless it's the filtering of the power supply. I would go with 50V rated caps they are much smaller then say 16V rated counterparts. as long as you use the correct farad rating it will be fine. Also make sure to use 105*C temp rated caps, they will last longer.
You should NEVER twist ANY component off a board because you're placing unnecessary stress on the pads and for something as old as the Amiga and many other items of similar age or even older, you have the risk of pulling pads off completely or partially. That is when a simple job of removing caps becomes a much longer repair AND recap job. With a hot air gun set to 280C it takes minutes to get them off, there really is NO excuse. If the caps have been leaking then the possibility of pads being ripped off increases. There never was any "it might hurt the board", that never came into it.
First of all, big thumbs up for attempting this work (it takes effort to have a go when you've never done this before), and for making it public. YT can sometimes feel like a painful place where everyone seems to want to bash your ears! ;) The best way to remove these is either with hot air, or by cutting them off (very carefully) - cut the middle of the can very carefull with sharp cutters, then the can comes off really easily and leaves the pins on the board to desolder. This technique (of twisting) can sometimes be done in some other systems (where the caps are much smaller with much thinner legs) but it really is not recommended. For example, I've done the twist technique on very very small 10uF SMD caps on Sega CD systems, and no damage for the few times I have done it, but I did risk damage each time I did it that way. But if you try this on an Amiga, or PC Engine it nearly always results at some point in a pad being lifted. As you said, it was a learning excercise - so kudos for having a go! If we don't make mistakes we never learn!!!! Trust me, I've made a lot and continue to do so! Personally I don't like the idea of swapping wet type electrolytics for ceramic capacitors - I accept what you are saying though, and what other have said, that it does work with ceramic caps! What they are missing is the fact that the capacitors don't behave the same way exactly! Ceramic capacitors have very low ESR and are better at filtering higher frequencies (experts correct me if I am wrong here, I am a novice too), electrolytics are better a smoothing power supply ripple (slightly lower frequencies etc), ceramic caps can exhibit piezo effects (so you can get wierd oscillation type things going on if you're unlucky), and even ambient temperature affects them differently. So even an exact same size capacitor doesn't behave quite the same - this is the very reason there are so many different types of capacitors, they all have different characteristics. Since many of the capacitors are probably smoothing supply and acting as bypass caps etc they aren't going to work exactly the same way as electrolytics. That said, maybe in a few places ceramic caps might actually be better suited than electrolytics - no idea! But that's just my opinion - I am more than happy to be re-educated if it turns out there's nothing wrong with this approach! So in the long run, I would also consider swapping them again for electrolytics - even perhaps just consider working out which ones smooth supply rails (just continuity test between the cap + and the supply + connections) and perhaps make sure at the very least that those are changed for electrolytics. But hats off for doing this and opening up discussion on it, and don't let the comments get you down. In general it looks like you did a good job - things could have certainly gone much worse!!! It's a success in that you managed to achieve it without damage to the board and it is working. But it might not last as long without some of those key electrolytics on supply lines.
Thanks for your uplifting comment. :) Didn't mean to cause such controversy here. I think I'll write up a little pinned comment to show how I carefully researched before doing this. And I'm learning all the time of course and stand to be corrected. There's quite some people for whom this conversion seem to work just fine and I thought I'd try this. (Had to recap the thing anyway.) After some more research, I might go back to electrolytics. Although I would want to try to move away from SMDs at any rate.
By using ceramics,, you did not do enough research. sorry.. if you do it on your own boards FINE. but tell others to.. no! and twisting (OR Cutting!) off caps stresses the board, especially if the board have issues with leakage.
They simply doesn't do what it are designed for. filters totally different, behave extremly different. simply just does not do what it is designed for. I cannot find the article now that explains how the capacitance of ceramics behaves different depending on voltage applied etc. you can run the board without caps (ok you will need caps at audio and compositevideo parts to get FUNCTION. but machine runs "fine" without any of the electrolytes mounted... Anyway Ceramcs doesn't filter the noise as the designer planned for. Why even change type? if it was designed for ceramics, why not put in ceramics from the beginning? and I also know that IF you have issues with a ACA accelerator or Indivision and complains to individual computers. and if he knows you used the wrong type of caps he will just say: well do it proper and THEN contact me again. he simply refuses to support machines that are recapped wrong. so sure.. DO use other type of caps on your OWN machines. but DO warn others that you MIGHT have issues either directly or after a while. and do NOT belive the hype that ceramics never leak.. well. they never leaks. they instead shorts and makes REALLY ugly NONREPAIRABLE burnmarks when they fail.. I have recapped over 240 boards now always using panasonic caps. Do it proper or don't do it.
To be fair, it's not really his fault - if you look around there are quite a few people spreading this 'bad idea'. I've seen people on the Amiga forums suggesting that its a good thing to do (despite the fact I think it isn't). I've also seen people doing it to PC Engines (again, I don't think it's a good idea!).
This was a very inspiring and informative video! I appreciate the fact that you took a chance to do the work yourself and put your experience up on TH-cam! I came to TH-cam looking for videos on recapping Amigas, specifically, and this was a great inside look at how its done. I recognize that you were new at this and that some of your techniques were 'unpolished' and 'controversial', but the reading the replies below, and your replies to the replies, has been invaluably educational. Reading through them taught me a lot about the ins and outs of recapping, the techniques used, and the fact that different people have different methods (and agree and disagree on some things). A week ago I pulled my A500 and A2500 (with Video Toaster) out of two decades of storage (my father kindly put them there years before he passed away and I have only recently been able to get to them). The boards, thankfully, look like they're in good shape but I have been mulling doing a recapping myself (as opposed to having them done by someone else). I have done some electronics work before, but it was ALWAYS under the watchful eyes of my father, who was a mechanic and engineer and the real expert. I wanted to do a recap myself, but to be honest I've been too frightened to do so on my own, without my father. Watching your video, however, has inspired me. The most important thing I took away was your comment that 'it was frightening, but easier than you thought.' I appreciate you putting this out there. I'm going to do some more research on the process and in another month or so give this a shot. Thank you for this video, and all of your others! (And thank you to the commenters below, too... the reading was extremely informative.)
I highly recommend watching some of my more recent videos about the recapping process. I learned a lot since I did this video. :) Here's an A600 recapping where I go into a lot of detail about the process (very similar for the A1200): th-cam.com/video/8MSfCLTHIIw/w-d-xo.html (I would not recommend using ceramic capacitors anymore!)
@@JanBeta, yes, thank you! I have been watching your videos and many others to get a 'rounded' view of the process. I actually hope to make a video of my process, as well! Thank you for inspiring me!
Regarding ceramic caps in place of electrolytics. First things first - Commodore did not use ceramics because at the time, MLCC capacitors with large capacitance values did not exist. MLCC ceramics is relatively new, and its main place is in high density, high speed situations... they are also being used to replace tantalums. Are they harmful/wrong ? Not when used for decoupling purposes. The ESR simply isnt a factor in circuits like the Amiga, the speed of which is nowhere near requiring low ESR. However, using low ESR capacitors will also not *harm* anything. Where low ESR is *required* is where you are dealing with very fast switching speeds at high currents e.g. the outputs of modern switch mode regulators, or very high speed logic. There is ONE place that MLCC ceramics should not be used, and that is for signal coupling. In the A1200 that would be C235-237, C324 and C334. MLCC's capacitance value is somewhat voltage dependent, and they really don't like to see a changing voltage as you would get in a signal coupling application. Stick to electrolytics for that. However, used purely as supply voltage decoupling they are absolutely fine, as are tantalum capacitors. Why did C= use electrolytics then ? Simple - they were the cheapest option at the time of manufacture. Tants were relatively expensive, and MLCC didnt exist.
@@jaycee1980 here is my case - I have bought an Amiga 600 fully recapped with tantalums, but I was wondering if it makes any sense to replace some of the tantalums with electrolyte as you have suggested keeping electrolytes in A1200 in C235-237, C324 and C334.
Great video. Just some piece of advise if you don't mind. Soldering SMD components is quite easy if you only apply solder to one pad, then solder the component to this very pad and as a third step you apply solder to the second pad. Makes things way easier. :-)
I recently recapped an A600 using the twist off method, which worked perfectly. The key is to not apply any levering motion; just twist with some grippy pliers. In the past I've damaged boards trying to unsolder SMD capacitors. A heat gun heats the surrounding components too, sometimes dislodging small components, such as resistors. Twisting is much better.
I bought an A4000D motherboard that has had some very nice work done to it! the previous owner had repaired tracks at micro level, did some audio work, repaired the clock section and fitted metal clipped ram sockets. The big thing they did was the same as this A1200, a full recap with solid ceramics. The quality of the work is superb! I have never used the board so have no idea if all is ok. I am finally after 7 odd years going to use it. I will report back how this goes :)
I know this was over two years ago but I’ve recapped two A4000 boards. Surface mount I nothing to be afraid of if you have the right equipment though I would say working in this type of manufacturing for as long as I have a pair of pliers and brute force is not the right equipment. I used two soldering irons due to lack of heated tweezers giving direct heat to the joints the caps came of in seconds with no damage at all. Hot air works well but you need to be aware of surrounding components. Still it’s good to see you keeping these wonderful machines going, keep up the good work. I’m slowly going through your back catalogue, some real interesting stuff.👍
A bit late to this party but my only reservation about using MLCCapacitors instead of electrolytics is that they are prone to cracking with mechanical or thermal stress if not soldered correctly, and often fail shorted whereas electrolytics tend to go open circuit. That said, as long as you're not using your amiga to fly a plane or direct robot surgery then a failure is unlikely and the risk acceptable. A failing MLCC is les likely to damage your Amiga than a failing electrolytic because it won't squirt hot corrosive acid all over the pcb - the damage (if any) will be limited to the immediate vicinity of the component. All this talk about ceramics changing their value with voltage etc completely misses the point that electrolytics rarely have a capacitive tolerance of less than 20% so are not used where the value is critical, and their nominal value can change with applied voltage too, along with temperature, time, frequency, phase of the moon etc.
I have replaced thousands of SMD elec caps for people. some are in such bad condition that not much of the pad was left (I'm looking at you Sega S1 pac for laseracive!). Here's the best technique I found that results in minimum stress and no heat on pcb. - cut the cap just above the plastic holder - break plastic holder to remove (now left just with legs) - use soldering iron with fresh solder to remove legs - clean pads with iso + qtips - clean pads of all solder using desolder station / braid - install new caps I don't use ceramic caps. I only use what was originally there.
+Leon Kiriliuk Yes, I saw people using the method you are suggesting. Have yet to try it for myself (I will practice on sth less valuable this time). Thanks for the tip! :)
I used the same method as you. Twisting the caps till they come of the board. I only used the original caps. I used solder paste and flux to solder them back on the board again. It was a bit of a nerve wrecking job! Got a second A1200 which I want to recap. Nice job and posting a video about this.
Thanks! Yeah, these are nerve wrecking adventures sometimes. Today I worked on a Macintosh SE/30 board and removed all the SMD caps. Literally all of them were leaking. I have one of those 858D hot air stations now and it works very well for the job. No more twisting caps (although I'd still recommend it if you don't have a hot air station). ;)
Honestly I know many people do twist the caps off the boards but its not really the best way and with older boards you can damage the solder pads. Very happy to see you were able to recap your board. I have a couple Amiga's in my collection that need to be recapped and I might just consider using Ceramic Caps on my A1200.
+Stephen Bruce It worked okay for me. I have a hot air station now which makes things a lot easier so that's my weapon of choice for these things. Ceramics work very well. I had a conversation about that with an electronics engineer recently who did the same with his Amigas and he assured me that for the usage in the Amigas it's perfectly fine to use ceramic caps.
Yeah, the twisting method of removing SMD caps is controversial but seems to work pretty well. The trick is to hold the plastic base of the cap with tweezers while twisting the cap. The plastic base has two small holes in it for supporting the leads, and if you stabilize the base, the twist won't put a lot of strain on the PCB pads. I've done a lot of practice with some old video cards before I'll do it to my A1200 next week. If the pads are corroded, well... you have your work cut out for you anyway, and that's the time to contract a pro to do it for you! Your twisting was pretty rough and it looks like you were pulling upward, too. That was painful to watch! But, these Amiga boards don't give you much pad surface area to heat, so the lifting/rocking method is near impossible without soldering tweezers. I wish I had some soldering tweezers, but they're friggin' expensive. I can't comment on replacing electrolytic caps with ceramic, as I'm too new to this electronics stuff. They might work for decoupling (such as near the RF modulator), but not so much for filtering (near the audio ports, or the 47µf caps on the 12v lines). I know it's generally a bad idea to replace caps with much larger capacitance, since then they won't filter noise as well. I'll stick to replacing the 470µF and 1000µF can caps with stock values, but I'll replace them with some nice KEMET polymer caps. I've never done SMD soldering before last week. My A1200 actually blew an SMD cap near the Alice chip, and made a nice crater in the PCB and burned a hole in the insulation under the mobo. What a mess. I did fix it with a new ceramic cap and 30 gauge wire. Once I did that successfully, I figured a full recapping was in order. I'll be doing that next week once the parts come in. 8)
Oh, that's a nice tip! Will definitely try that the next time I come across some leaky SMD caps. The close-up shot in the video really looks brutish. I got at least a bit better after that (I only filmed the very first time I did it up close). You're definitely right about the capacitance. Always use the same values there or at least values very close. I tend to use higher voltage and temperature ratings as they significantly prolong the cap's life. Still not sure about the ceramics/electrolytics thing. All I can say is that the A1200 from this video still works fine (even has an accelerator card in there now) and doesn't have any problems. I think I'll check some of the filtering with the scope some time but functionally, everything works as it should. :) Oh yeah, caps can explode quite violently. Had one in my A500 power supply that let out black smoke (while the supply still worked!) recently. Switched it off before it burnt a crater, though. Good luck with you recapping! And thanks for the productive comment. ;)
With regards to through hole caps on A1200, A600s and A500s. I found they require so much heat when using desoldering station that I find it safest to not try and remove the solder. Instead I add solder, heat up each pad as I gently pull the old radial caps out until they are free. Then I add some more solder and heat up each pad while I push the new cap gently through as a move the soldering iron between the pads. Then when it's pushed through as far as I want it I add more solder if needed. Maybe the only not so good thing about this is that I mix the new solder with the old solder. Not seen any issues yet from this mixture. It would be the same If one reflowed current solder joints anyway.
Thanks! That's not a bad idea actually. I mean, they ALWAYS fail after a couple of decades. I also find it strange that you very seldom encounter date codes on caps. Would be handy, too.
Hi Jan, schönes Video :-) Das selbe muss ich mit meinem Amiga 1200 jetzt auch machen, da er noch seine originalen SMD Caps hat. Ich hab da auch noch zwei Sony Video 8 Camcorder und andere Geräte aus den 90'er Jahren, wo ich die originalen SMD Caps austauschen muss, weil sie langsam auslaufen. Da ich ebenfalls keine Erfahrung mit dem entfernen von SMD Caps habe, habe ich mir einige TH-cam Videos und Artikel im Internet zu dem Thema angeschaut und festgestellt das viele deine Methode der Entfernung benutzen. So wie du die SMD Caps entfernt hast, werde ich es auch machen. Bei dem Projekt wird es mir wie dir gehen, da es auch für mich neuland ist. Ich hoffe das mein Amiga 1200 dann noch läuft ;-)
No se si los capacitores de cerámica dañan la placa madre, pero la manera brutal que tenes de retirar los viejos capacitores seguro que si lo hace. ¿No sabes que se usa un dessoldador o una pistola térmica?
Hello i have almost sure that the power connector of my Amiga 500 is broken because i tested the psu with another Amiga 500 and it´s working but when i use that same psu in my Amiga 500 most of the times it keeps off. Can you give your opinion ?
Yes, the A1200 works flawlessly still (even if I would have used electrolytic caps and different methods if I was to do it again today - cf my more recent work on the A600). In the meantime, I added a 68030 accelerator card. I use this Amiga a lot for my retrogaming streams on Twitch, too.
@@JanBeta This is good to hear. I had both my A1200 and A4000 redone with ceramics. No issues with mine either, but I don't use mine near as much as you probably do.
Yikes! I feel like The Highlander, cautiously leaving a comment... Jan Beta, you have definitely spawned a great debate. I have my original A1200 that requires a recap and I have been putting it off -- the procedure makes me nervous, as well. Using ceramic SMD caps is an interesting thought, and you did a great job, as nerve-wracking as it must have been for you. I did find an interesting article on the TDK website, "Guide to Replacing Electrolytic Capacitors with an MLCC" (goo.gl/YPK47U) if anyone is interested. Twisting off SMD electrolytics from an A1200 always makes me cringe, concerned that the twisting force will tear off a trace. If I recall, the Mr. Carlson's Lab video, where he twisted off these caps, was a repair to on an analogue oscilloscope board. The main PCB board looked to have a very robust conformal coating, so perhaps the chances of lifting traces were slight. I agree with GadgetUK164, hot air is supposed to make the SMD electrolytic cap removal a lot easier. HOWEVER... if you haven't already done so, check out Sabretooth Barnacle's video "How to replace the capacitors on an Amiga 1200 (and not lose your eye)" (th-cam.com/video/Tnl9KTQB_ik/w-d-xo.html). The other option is hot tweezers, as shown in "tbtorro recap" on The Tbtorro channel (th-cam.com/video/MIpnzUwSzNw/w-d-xo.html). But why spend money on decent hot tweezers if you are not recapping Amigas on a regular basis. In my research preparing for recapping my A1200 I am planning on using Organic Polymer SMD caps -- same SMD package as the electrolytic SMD caps but use a solid electrolyte rather than a liquid electrolyte. Organic Polymer SMD caps will NOT leak and therefore operate for a very long time, but they do cost more. Once again, great work on your efforts and for keeping your A1200 alive -- that's what really counts in the end.
Thanks for sharing your research! I must admit that I have reached a point where I think that the only way to do this right is to use good electrolytics of the same type (with slightly higher voltage ratings) which I will do sooner or later. The Amiga runs fine with other caps but they'll never have the exact same characteristics as the ones the whole circuit was designed for in the first place. I'm not too worried about leakage. The original cheapo caps lasted for 20+ years. I saw old audio stuff with electrolytic caps that were 40+ years old with nearly no sign of wear. The life-span also increases considerably if you use higher voltage and higher temperature rated caps, so I guess you wouldn't have to worry for some decades. And I would have used hot air to remove those caps if I had the equipment. I hope to get a lower end hot air station some time to be able to do it right. I would still recommend the twisting method as a viable alternative. If done correctly, the pads are really not in danger too much. You rather move the legs of the cap until the metal weakens and just breaks off. The close-up footage in the video is the first try (which looked really brutal in retrospect...), I got the knack of it later and used far less force and a bit more patience. ;) Oh, and I'm gonna read your links later. Still researching the matter as well (of course). The video on how to not lose an eye was part of my preparation for my recap. :)
Ja, die Abschirmung kann weg, die ist für den Wärmeaustausch eher hinderlich. Du verlierst allerdings die Funkabschirmung. Ist heutzutage aber nicht mehr so relevant.
Phew, I'm almost afraid to comment now. I have no clue when or where to use this type of capacitor. However, I did see bwack (Hans, check out his channel if you haven't already) use a heat gun to perfectly align small surface mounted devices. It means you don't have to fiddle with a soldering iron in tiny spaces.
+The Highlander Haha, don't be afraid. I'm taking all of this with a smile and learning from it. And yes, I'll probably get a heat gun some time soon. It's always a workaround to use an iron on SMD stuff. Oh, and I'm subscribed to Hans' channel. :)
HELLO JAN NICE WORK YOU HAVE TO PRACTISE ON SMD A LITTLE BIT MORE ITS VERY FIGITY I HATE SOLDERING SMD PARTS BUT CAPS ROUND TYPE LIKE AMIGAS ARE OK NOT HARD THEY LEAK LOTS IF THEY USE CHEAP BRANDS BUT COMMODORE USED GOOD QUALITY ONES LASTED 30 YEARS SO THATS GOOD .. ANY WAY BYE.. KERNALS..
Du kannst den oberen Teil des Steckverbinders an beiden Seiten anfassen (da sind so leichte "Vorsprünge") und hochziehen, dadurch entriegelst du die Verbindung. Danach kannst du das Flatflex einfach herausziehen. Wenn es noch Widerstand gibt, ist's noch nicht vollständig entriegelt.
IF EVERYONE DIDNT EXPERIMENT ON THEIR COMPUTERS THERE WOULD BE NO DEVELOPMENT...SO GOOD ON YOU JAN BETA MAN FOR HAVING A CRACK AT IT. I LIKE TO WATCH VIDS THAT TELL YOU THE CORRECT WAY TO DO THINGS NOTTT GUESSING AND THEN EVERYONE GETS UPSET ...IF IT DOESNT WORK.... SO THERE YOU GO....BYE
Oh, sorry to hear that. The Amiga still works fine, btw and I confirmed with electronics engineers that the caps are absolutely okay to use in this context.
Those low value ceramics play an entirely different role to electrolytics on any board. If it were ok to replace the electrolytics Commodore would have done so. Those ceramics are much cheaper.
+Brek Martin Ceramic caps of these higher capacitances weren't around when the A1200 was made actually. And they are a lot pricier than electrolytic caps even today (if you don't believe me look the values I listed in the description up on your favorite electronics supplier's site). Pretty new technology.
Because the MLCC capacitors that were available didn’t have the capacitance needed. The ones we have readily available today were almost science fiction in the 90s and more or less experimental. Also, of course, cost reduction.
A NE SURTOUT PAS FAIRE AINSI !!!! Pas de pince pour retirer les condensateurs (utiliser un fer à souder/dessouder) et PAS de condensateurs en céramique, malheureux !!!
I am using a completely different technique now, watch my recent A600 recapping video if you are interested. This was a first try. The A1200 still works fine though.
+ChuckyGang Right. Sorry if it came across like that. I was just happy that it worked at all. Tested it for 10+ hours after this. Works a treat. No signs of any malfunctions.
you will notice the problems after much longer time using the wrong type of caps. actually they are doing NO good atall so in time. (maybe long time) it will damage your machine.. so remove them and put in correct caps instead if you want to actually protect your machine.
+Amiga Warez The capacitance of ceramic caps changes quite a bit if you apply voltage. It works quite well if you carefully choose the caps (higher voltage ratings than the electrolytics) but it will never be as accurate as the original values. So there MAY be issues.
they simply behaves different. and one important thing with the caps is to get rid of rippel etc. the ceramics will simply just don't do it. so it is close to run the machine without caps atall. the protection is gone. it will "work" yes. but so did the machine with the bad caps aswell. and if your PSU (that also should be recapped) is bad.. well.. it goes into your machine. caps cannot handle it. and after a while maybe failures. all by saving some pennies using the wrong caps. worth it? nah! use same type just better quality. when designing the board they have caluclated for more stuff then just capacitance.. and also. ceramcs have different capacitance depending on voltage applied etc. just. behaves different..
Wow, didn't mean to spawn such controversy about this... I thought I'd write up a little statement in this pinned comment. Hope this helps clarify some things. :)
First of all, for the most part I do stuff like this to learn and gain experience. I might as well have practiced on another board before doing this to my Amiga but, hey, it worked out very well. (If you watch carefully, you will see that I lifted 1 pad. And that was one that was badly corroded by the leaking cap that sat on it before. So I really don't blame it on the SMD cap removal method.) Sorry if I hurt any Amiga enthusiasts' feelings (rest assured I am one myself).
Speaking of the removal of SMDs, I carefully researched my options there and I found that many people who I trust being professionals or at least very well educated electronics wise suggested the "twist and remove" method as the one that puts the least stress on the board in the end. (One of the sources I trust here is Mr Carlson's Lab who clearly recommends this method: th-cam.com/video/X8N9O3a9jiM/w-d-xo.html .) Plus, I don't have any hot air or reflow oven stuff (yet), so this method seemed reasonable.
As for replacing electrolytics with ceramics: I am well aware of the fact that ceramics behave VERY differently in circuits and change their capacitance with voltage applied to them and temperature. That's why I researched this matter very carefully and found that there's a lot of people for whom this worked (and has so for years). I talked to some of them personally (okay, via the interwebs). There's even a bunch of people who do exactly these mods commercially (at least here in Germany). I chose caps that have a higher voltage rating than the originals so that the capacitance would only change ever so slightly (as it also does in electrolytics with age). I understand that most of the caps in the A1200 only ever see
When mr.carlson showed that video I lost ALL respect for him. twisting caps like that. actually that video went "viral" at some Amigacommunitys of: even people who should be pros does it just WRONG.
To be fair I think its interesting and I have mixed feelings and thoughts here. Some people learn quicker faster ways of doing things, and those methods might be unorthodox and have risk associated - this is a classic example of that.
When you get to the point where you are skilled enough to do a professional job, but it takes a certain amount of time, and you then find a much quicker (but risky way of doing it), often people will learn to cut corners. The technique with things like this is key - but there is always a risk of damage. What I have learnt is that I don't WANT to take the risk - I personally prefer to use hot air and guarantee that I won't lift a pad.
I think it generally comes down to two groups of people 1) People that want to do a professional job without any risk to the board 2) People that are hobbyist and just want a quick way to get from A to B, and if they have to patch the odd trace they aren't bothered. So I can see why you are frustrated, it's definitely not the best way to do it, but people have been doing things the wrong way ever since there was a right way lol (me included).
All that said, I am glad there are people like you (and RetroGameModz) that point out these things and try to educate people on why not to do something a certain way.
+GadgetUK164 Always good to learn from people who have more experience. I Should probably have asked before, I guess. ;)
Twisting off SMD electrolytic caps doesn't really hurt the board. They have small flat legs that tear easily. Honestly it's the oldest trick in the book for removing those type of caps. For many years I have seen techs do that.
Replacing the electrolytic with ceramic caps isn't that bad of an idea. However making sure what part of the circuit it is going to be used for. With digital electronics you'll see caps used for filtering the power supply to the IC to help stop oscillation. However for analog electronics it's typically used to filter out DC. So say for an example the audio path of a amplifier I would stick with the electrolytic since ceramic has a piezoelectric effect. Not to mention since electrolytic is polarized it can help stop feedback into the circuit.
I think you had a nice suscess for that project.
You can always go with a higher voltage dip electrolytic cap, typically typically stuff like this uses up to 100uF unless it's the filtering of the power supply. I would go with 50V rated caps they are much smaller then say 16V rated counterparts. as long as you use the correct farad rating it will be fine. Also make sure to use 105*C temp rated caps, they will last longer.
You should NEVER twist ANY component off a board because you're placing unnecessary stress on the pads and for something as old as the Amiga and many other items of similar age or even older, you have the risk of pulling pads off completely or partially. That is when a simple job of removing caps becomes a much longer repair AND recap job. With a hot air gun set to 280C it takes minutes to get them off, there really is NO excuse. If the caps have been leaking then the possibility of pads being ripped off increases.
There never was any "it might hurt the board", that never came into it.
First of all, big thumbs up for attempting this work (it takes effort to have a go when you've never done this before), and for making it public. YT can sometimes feel like a painful place where everyone seems to want to bash your ears! ;)
The best way to remove these is either with hot air, or by cutting them off (very carefully) - cut the middle of the can very carefull with sharp cutters, then the can comes off really easily and leaves the pins on the board to desolder. This technique (of twisting) can sometimes be done in some other systems (where the caps are much smaller with much thinner legs) but it really is not recommended. For example, I've done the twist technique on very very small 10uF SMD caps on Sega CD systems, and no damage for the few times I have done it, but I did risk damage each time I did it that way.
But if you try this on an Amiga, or PC Engine it nearly always results at some point in a pad being lifted. As you said, it was a learning excercise - so kudos for having a go! If we don't make mistakes we never learn!!!! Trust me, I've made a lot and continue to do so!
Personally I don't like the idea of swapping wet type electrolytics for ceramic capacitors - I accept what you are saying though, and what other have said, that it does work with ceramic caps! What they are missing is the fact that the capacitors don't behave the same way exactly! Ceramic capacitors have very low ESR and are better at filtering higher frequencies (experts correct me if I am wrong here, I am a novice too), electrolytics are better a smoothing power supply ripple (slightly lower frequencies etc), ceramic caps can exhibit piezo effects (so you can get wierd oscillation type things going on if you're unlucky), and even ambient temperature affects them differently. So even an exact same size capacitor doesn't behave quite the same - this is the very reason there are so many different types of capacitors, they all have different characteristics. Since many of the capacitors are probably smoothing supply and acting as bypass caps etc they aren't going to work exactly the same way as electrolytics.
That said, maybe in a few places ceramic caps might actually be better suited than electrolytics - no idea! But that's just my opinion - I am more than happy to be re-educated if it turns out there's nothing wrong with this approach!
So in the long run, I would also consider swapping them again for electrolytics - even perhaps just consider working out which ones smooth supply rails (just continuity test between the cap + and the supply + connections) and perhaps make sure at the very least that those are changed for electrolytics. But hats off for doing this and opening up discussion on it, and don't let the comments get you down. In general it looks like you did a good job - things could have certainly gone much worse!!! It's a success in that you managed to achieve it without damage to the board and it is working. But it might not last as long without some of those key electrolytics on supply lines.
Thanks for your uplifting comment. :)
Didn't mean to cause such controversy here. I think I'll write up a little pinned comment to show how I carefully researched before doing this. And I'm learning all the time of course and stand to be corrected. There's quite some people for whom this conversion seem to work just fine and I thought I'd try this. (Had to recap the thing anyway.) After some more research, I might go back to electrolytics. Although I would want to try to move away from SMDs at any rate.
By using ceramics,, you did not do enough research. sorry.. if you do it on your own boards FINE. but tell others to.. no! and twisting (OR Cutting!) off caps stresses the board, especially if the board have issues with leakage.
cf my pinned comment. You seem to have quite some experience. What exactly do you think is the danger in using ceramics here?
They simply doesn't do what it are designed for. filters totally different, behave extremly different. simply just does not do what it is designed for. I cannot find the article now that explains how the capacitance of ceramics behaves different depending on voltage applied etc. you can run the board without caps (ok you will need caps at audio and compositevideo parts to get FUNCTION. but machine runs "fine" without any of the electrolytes mounted... Anyway Ceramcs doesn't filter the noise as the designer planned for.
Why even change type? if it was designed for ceramics, why not put in ceramics from the beginning? and I also know that IF you have issues with a ACA accelerator or Indivision and complains to individual computers. and if he knows you used the wrong type of caps he will just say: well do it proper and THEN contact me again. he simply refuses to support machines that are recapped wrong.
so sure.. DO use other type of caps on your OWN machines. but DO warn others that you MIGHT have issues either directly or after a while. and do NOT belive the hype that ceramics never leak.. well. they never leaks. they instead shorts and makes REALLY ugly NONREPAIRABLE burnmarks when they fail..
I have recapped over 240 boards now always using panasonic caps. Do it proper or don't do it.
To be fair, it's not really his fault - if you look around there are quite a few people spreading this 'bad idea'. I've seen people on the Amiga forums suggesting that its a good thing to do (despite the fact I think it isn't). I've also seen people doing it to PC Engines (again, I don't think it's a good idea!).
This was a very inspiring and informative video! I appreciate the fact that you took a chance to do the work yourself and put your experience up on TH-cam! I came to TH-cam looking for videos on recapping Amigas, specifically, and this was a great inside look at how its done. I recognize that you were new at this and that some of your techniques were 'unpolished' and 'controversial', but the reading the replies below, and your replies to the replies, has been invaluably educational. Reading through them taught me a lot about the ins and outs of recapping, the techniques used, and the fact that different people have different methods (and agree and disagree on some things).
A week ago I pulled my A500 and A2500 (with Video Toaster) out of two decades of storage (my father kindly put them there years before he passed away and I have only recently been able to get to them). The boards, thankfully, look like they're in good shape but I have been mulling doing a recapping myself (as opposed to having them done by someone else). I have done some electronics work before, but it was ALWAYS under the watchful eyes of my father, who was a mechanic and engineer and the real expert. I wanted to do a recap myself, but to be honest I've been too frightened to do so on my own, without my father. Watching your video, however, has inspired me.
The most important thing I took away was your comment that 'it was frightening, but easier than you thought.' I appreciate you putting this out there. I'm going to do some more research on the process and in another month or so give this a shot.
Thank you for this video, and all of your others! (And thank you to the commenters below, too... the reading was extremely informative.)
I highly recommend watching some of my more recent videos about the recapping process. I learned a lot since I did this video. :) Here's an A600 recapping where I go into a lot of detail about the process (very similar for the A1200): th-cam.com/video/8MSfCLTHIIw/w-d-xo.html (I would not recommend using ceramic capacitors anymore!)
@@JanBeta, yes, thank you! I have been watching your videos and many others to get a 'rounded' view of the process. I actually hope to make a video of my process, as well! Thank you for inspiring me!
Regarding ceramic caps in place of electrolytics. First things first - Commodore did not use ceramics because at the time, MLCC capacitors with large capacitance values did not exist. MLCC ceramics is relatively new, and its main place is in high density, high speed situations... they are also being used to replace tantalums.
Are they harmful/wrong ? Not when used for decoupling purposes. The ESR simply isnt a factor in circuits like the Amiga, the speed of which is nowhere near requiring low ESR. However, using low ESR capacitors will also not *harm* anything. Where low ESR is *required* is where you are dealing with very fast switching speeds at high currents e.g. the outputs of modern switch mode regulators, or very high speed logic.
There is ONE place that MLCC ceramics should not be used, and that is for signal coupling. In the A1200 that would be C235-237, C324 and C334. MLCC's capacitance value is somewhat voltage dependent, and they really don't like to see a changing voltage as you would get in a signal coupling application. Stick to electrolytics for that.
However, used purely as supply voltage decoupling they are absolutely fine, as are tantalum capacitors. Why did C= use electrolytics then ? Simple - they were the cheapest option at the time of manufacture. Tants were relatively expensive, and MLCC didnt exist.
Thanks for clarifying that again. :)
Sir, you are hereby awarded the TH-cam Constructive Comment award: You gain +1 internet, +1 humanity and the Informative badge.
Thank you for this fantastic comment, could you advise which A600 v1.5 caps should be electrolytes?
@@tomarkus8720 Simply keep the circuit as designed - don't use MLCC ceramics or tantalums unless thats what's there now.
@@jaycee1980 here is my case - I have bought an Amiga 600 fully recapped with tantalums, but I was wondering if it makes any sense to replace some of the tantalums with electrolyte as you have suggested keeping electrolytes in A1200 in C235-237, C324 and C334.
Great video. Just some piece of advise if you don't mind. Soldering SMD components is quite easy if you only apply solder to one pad, then solder the component to this very pad and as a third step you apply solder to the second pad. Makes things way easier. :-)
Thanks for the tip! Sounds reasonable to me. I will try that method when I solder SMD stuff the next time. :)
I recently recapped an A600 using the twist off method, which worked perfectly. The key is to not apply any levering motion; just twist with some grippy pliers.
In the past I've damaged boards trying to unsolder SMD capacitors. A heat gun heats the surrounding components too, sometimes dislodging small components, such as resistors. Twisting is much better.
I bought an A4000D motherboard that has had some very nice work done to it! the previous owner had repaired tracks at micro level, did some audio work, repaired the clock section and fitted metal clipped ram sockets. The big thing they did was the same as this A1200, a full recap with solid ceramics. The quality of the work is superb! I have never used the board so have no idea if all is ok. I am finally after 7 odd years going to use it. I will report back how this goes :)
I know this was over two years ago but I’ve recapped two A4000 boards. Surface mount I nothing to be afraid of if you have the right equipment though I would say working in this type of manufacturing for as long as I have a pair of pliers and brute force is not the right equipment. I used two soldering irons due to lack of heated tweezers giving direct heat to the joints the caps came of in seconds with no damage at all. Hot air works well but you need to be aware of surrounding components.
Still it’s good to see you keeping these wonderful machines going, keep up the good work. I’m slowly going through your back catalogue, some real interesting stuff.👍
Bel lavoro Jan,così non ci sono più quei dannati condensatori pericolosi che buttano fuori liquido elettrolitico mettendo in pericolo l'AMIGA.bravo
A bit late to this party but my only reservation about using MLCCapacitors instead of electrolytics is that they are prone to cracking with mechanical or thermal stress if not soldered correctly, and often fail shorted whereas electrolytics tend to go open circuit. That said, as long as you're not using your amiga to fly a plane or direct robot surgery then a failure is unlikely and the risk acceptable. A failing MLCC is les likely to damage your Amiga than a failing electrolytic because it won't squirt hot corrosive acid all over the pcb - the damage (if any) will be limited to the immediate vicinity of the component.
All this talk about ceramics changing their value with voltage etc completely misses the point that electrolytics rarely have a capacitive tolerance of less than 20% so are not used where the value is critical, and their nominal value can change with applied voltage too, along with temperature, time, frequency, phase of the moon etc.
I have replaced thousands of SMD elec caps for people. some are in such bad condition that not much of the pad was left (I'm looking at you Sega S1 pac for laseracive!). Here's the best technique I found that results in minimum stress and no heat on pcb.
- cut the cap just above the plastic holder
- break plastic holder to remove (now left just with legs)
- use soldering iron with fresh solder to remove legs
- clean pads with iso + qtips
- clean pads of all solder using desolder station / braid
- install new caps
I don't use ceramic caps. I only use what was originally there.
+Leon Kiriliuk Yes, I saw people using the method you are suggesting. Have yet to try it for myself (I will practice on sth less valuable this time). Thanks for the tip! :)
Thanks for the tipp!
I used the same method as you. Twisting the caps till they come of the board. I only used the original caps. I used solder paste and flux to solder them back on the board again. It was a bit of a nerve wrecking job! Got a second A1200 which I want to recap. Nice job and posting a video about this.
Thanks! Yeah, these are nerve wrecking adventures sometimes. Today I worked on a Macintosh SE/30 board and removed all the SMD caps. Literally all of them were leaking. I have one of those 858D hot air stations now and it works very well for the job. No more twisting caps (although I'd still recommend it if you don't have a hot air station). ;)
Another very interesting video - i like the way you are talking - your english is very clean and understandable for other not native english speakers.
Thank you so much! I try to be as understandable as possible. :)
Honestly I know many people do twist the caps off the boards but its not really the best way and with older boards you can damage the solder pads. Very happy to see you were able to recap your board. I have a couple Amiga's in my collection that need to be recapped and I might just consider using Ceramic Caps on my A1200.
+Stephen Bruce It worked okay for me. I have a hot air station now which makes things a lot easier so that's my weapon of choice for these things. Ceramics work very well. I had a conversation about that with an electronics engineer recently who did the same with his Amigas and he assured me that for the usage in the Amigas it's perfectly fine to use ceramic caps.
Hot Air Rework Stations are a treat. I will definitely keep the ceramic capacitors in mind when I pull out the A1200 to work on it.
Nice work, Keeping the c64 and Amiga hardware in working condition is lost art.
FIBER0PTIC/FBR, The HUMBLE Guys, Napalm and Worship.
Thanks! :)
Yeah, the twisting method of removing SMD caps is controversial but seems to work pretty well. The trick is to hold the plastic base of the cap with tweezers while twisting the cap. The plastic base has two small holes in it for supporting the leads, and if you stabilize the base, the twist won't put a lot of strain on the PCB pads. I've done a lot of practice with some old video cards before I'll do it to my A1200 next week. If the pads are corroded, well... you have your work cut out for you anyway, and that's the time to contract a pro to do it for you!
Your twisting was pretty rough and it looks like you were pulling upward, too. That was painful to watch! But, these Amiga boards don't give you much pad surface area to heat, so the lifting/rocking method is near impossible without soldering tweezers. I wish I had some soldering tweezers, but they're friggin' expensive.
I can't comment on replacing electrolytic caps with ceramic, as I'm too new to this electronics stuff. They might work for decoupling (such as near the RF modulator), but not so much for filtering (near the audio ports, or the 47µf caps on the 12v lines). I know it's generally a bad idea to replace caps with much larger capacitance, since then they won't filter noise as well. I'll stick to replacing the 470µF and 1000µF can caps with stock values, but I'll replace them with some nice KEMET polymer caps.
I've never done SMD soldering before last week. My A1200 actually blew an SMD cap near the Alice chip, and made a nice crater in the PCB and burned a hole in the insulation under the mobo. What a mess. I did fix it with a new ceramic cap and 30 gauge wire. Once I did that successfully, I figured a full recapping was in order. I'll be doing that next week once the parts come in. 8)
Oh, that's a nice tip! Will definitely try that the next time I come across some leaky SMD caps. The close-up shot in the video really looks brutish. I got at least a bit better after that (I only filmed the very first time I did it up close).
You're definitely right about the capacitance. Always use the same values there or at least values very close. I tend to use higher voltage and temperature ratings as they significantly prolong the cap's life.
Still not sure about the ceramics/electrolytics thing. All I can say is that the A1200 from this video still works fine (even has an accelerator card in there now) and doesn't have any problems. I think I'll check some of the filtering with the scope some time but functionally, everything works as it should. :)
Oh yeah, caps can explode quite violently. Had one in my A500 power supply that let out black smoke (while the supply still worked!) recently. Switched it off before it burnt a crater, though.
Good luck with you recapping! And thanks for the productive comment. ;)
With regards to through hole caps on A1200, A600s and A500s. I found they require so much heat when using desoldering station that I find it safest to not try and remove the solder. Instead I add solder, heat up each pad as I gently pull the old radial caps out until they are free. Then I add some more solder and heat up each pad while I push the new cap gently through as a move the soldering iron between the pads. Then when it's pushed through as far as I want it I add more solder if needed. Maybe the only not so good thing about this is that I mix the new solder with the old solder. Not seen any issues yet from this mixture. It would be the same If one reflowed current solder joints anyway.
I wish that all electrolytic capacitors were socketed!!!! ;) Great video as always!
Thanks! That's not a bad idea actually. I mean, they ALWAYS fail after a couple of decades. I also find it strange that you very seldom encounter date codes on caps. Would be handy, too.
Hi Jan,
schönes Video :-)
Das selbe muss ich mit meinem Amiga 1200 jetzt auch machen, da er noch seine originalen SMD Caps hat. Ich hab da auch noch zwei Sony Video 8 Camcorder und andere Geräte aus den 90'er Jahren, wo ich die originalen SMD Caps austauschen muss, weil sie langsam auslaufen.
Da ich ebenfalls keine Erfahrung mit dem entfernen von SMD Caps habe, habe ich mir einige TH-cam Videos und Artikel im Internet zu dem Thema angeschaut und festgestellt das viele deine Methode der Entfernung benutzen. So wie du die SMD Caps entfernt hast, werde ich es auch machen.
Bei dem Projekt wird es mir wie dir gehen, da es auch für mich neuland ist. Ich hoffe das mein Amiga 1200 dann noch läuft ;-)
Excellent work!! I'm terrified of the thought of doing mine x
No se si los capacitores de cerámica dañan la placa madre, pero la manera brutal que tenes de retirar los viejos capacitores seguro que si lo hace. ¿No sabes que se usa un dessoldador o una pistola térmica?
Top. Auch in der PC Engine Duo werden Kerkos alternativ genutzt für den Kondi-Austausch. Weißt du noch welche Größe die Kerkos hatten?
Hello
i have almost sure that the power connector of my Amiga 500
is broken
because i tested the psu with another Amiga 500 and it´s working but when i use that same psu in my Amiga 500 most of the times it keeps off. Can you give your opinion ?
So, it has been a few years since you did this recap. Has it worked out well so far? No exploding ceramic caps?
Yes, the A1200 works flawlessly still (even if I would have used electrolytic caps and different methods if I was to do it again today - cf my more recent work on the A600). In the meantime, I added a 68030 accelerator card. I use this Amiga a lot for my retrogaming streams on Twitch, too.
@@JanBeta This is good to hear. I had both my A1200 and A4000 redone with ceramics. No issues with mine either, but I don't use mine near as much as you probably do.
well done! i'm thinking of attempting this soon---ish... i'm scared.
Yikes! I feel like The Highlander, cautiously leaving a comment... Jan Beta, you have definitely spawned a great debate. I have my original A1200 that requires a recap and I have been putting it off -- the procedure makes me nervous, as well.
Using ceramic SMD caps is an interesting thought, and you did a great job, as nerve-wracking as it must have been for you. I did find an interesting article on the TDK website, "Guide to Replacing Electrolytic Capacitors with an MLCC" (goo.gl/YPK47U) if anyone is interested.
Twisting off SMD electrolytics from an A1200 always makes me cringe, concerned that the twisting force will tear off a trace. If I recall, the Mr. Carlson's Lab video, where he twisted off these caps, was a repair to on an analogue oscilloscope board. The main PCB board looked to have a very robust conformal coating, so perhaps the chances of lifting traces were slight.
I agree with GadgetUK164, hot air is supposed to make the SMD electrolytic cap removal a lot easier. HOWEVER... if you haven't already done so, check out Sabretooth Barnacle's video "How to replace the capacitors on an Amiga 1200 (and not lose your eye)" (th-cam.com/video/Tnl9KTQB_ik/w-d-xo.html). The other option is hot tweezers, as shown in "tbtorro recap" on The Tbtorro channel (th-cam.com/video/MIpnzUwSzNw/w-d-xo.html). But why spend money on decent hot tweezers if you are not recapping Amigas on a regular basis.
In my research preparing for recapping my A1200 I am planning on using Organic Polymer SMD caps -- same SMD package as the electrolytic SMD caps but use a solid electrolyte rather than a liquid electrolyte. Organic Polymer SMD caps will NOT leak and therefore operate for a very long time, but they do cost more.
Once again, great work on your efforts and for keeping your A1200 alive -- that's what really counts in the end.
Thanks for sharing your research! I must admit that I have reached a point where I think that the only way to do this right is to use good electrolytics of the same type (with slightly higher voltage ratings) which I will do sooner or later. The Amiga runs fine with other caps but they'll never have the exact same characteristics as the ones the whole circuit was designed for in the first place. I'm not too worried about leakage. The original cheapo caps lasted for 20+ years. I saw old audio stuff with electrolytic caps that were 40+ years old with nearly no sign of wear. The life-span also increases considerably if you use higher voltage and higher temperature rated caps, so I guess you wouldn't have to worry for some decades.
And I would have used hot air to remove those caps if I had the equipment. I hope to get a lower end hot air station some time to be able to do it right. I would still recommend the twisting method as a viable alternative. If done correctly, the pads are really not in danger too much. You rather move the legs of the cap until the metal weakens and just breaks off. The close-up footage in the video is the first try (which looked really brutal in retrospect...), I got the knack of it later and used far less force and a bit more patience. ;)
Oh, and I'm gonna read your links later. Still researching the matter as well (of course). The video on how to not lose an eye was part of my preparation for my recap. :)
Wer Disliked hier? Super Videos machst du Jan. Danke
Würdest Du sagen man kann die metallabschirmung (das obere blech) weglassen? Oder hat das evtl. Auswirkungen, z. B. Wärmeentwicklung? Danke.
Ja, die Abschirmung kann weg, die ist für den Wärmeaustausch eher hinderlich. Du verlierst allerdings die Funkabschirmung. Ist heutzutage aber nicht mehr so relevant.
Is it necessary/recommended to also replace the bigger (non-smd) elec caps?
all electrolytic caps will leak and they are all roughly the same age. So yeah if you're going to replace any you probably should replace all.
@Jan Beta 3 years later how is this working?
Phew, I'm almost afraid to comment now. I have no clue when or where to use this type of capacitor. However, I did see bwack (Hans, check out his channel if you haven't already) use a heat gun to perfectly align small surface mounted devices. It means you don't have to fiddle with a soldering iron in tiny spaces.
+The Highlander Haha, don't be afraid. I'm taking all of this with a smile and learning from it. And yes, I'll probably get a heat gun some time soon. It's always a workaround to use an iron on SMD stuff. Oh, and I'm subscribed to Hans' channel. :)
Good. Opinions aren't always served chilled on social media..
+The Highlander I know. I'm lurking around social media since the MySpace days. ;)
Nice video x
Thank you! :)
Jan Beta lol just noticed my phone added a little kiss :D
HELLO JAN NICE WORK YOU HAVE TO PRACTISE ON SMD A LITTLE BIT MORE ITS VERY FIGITY I HATE SOLDERING SMD PARTS BUT CAPS ROUND TYPE LIKE AMIGAS ARE OK NOT HARD THEY LEAK LOTS IF THEY USE CHEAP BRANDS BUT COMMODORE USED GOOD QUALITY ONES LASTED 30 YEARS SO THATS GOOD .. ANY WAY BYE.. KERNALS..
Wie entfernt man bitte das tastaturkabel richtig? Danke im voraus.
Du kannst den oberen Teil des Steckverbinders an beiden Seiten anfassen (da sind so leichte "Vorsprünge") und hochziehen, dadurch entriegelst du die Verbindung. Danach kannst du das Flatflex einfach herausziehen. Wenn es noch Widerstand gibt, ist's noch nicht vollständig entriegelt.
@@JanBeta danke schön.
IF EVERYONE DIDNT EXPERIMENT ON THEIR COMPUTERS THERE WOULD BE NO DEVELOPMENT...SO GOOD ON YOU JAN BETA MAN FOR HAVING A CRACK AT IT. I LIKE TO WATCH VIDS THAT TELL YOU THE CORRECT WAY TO DO THINGS NOTTT GUESSING AND THEN EVERYONE GETS UPSET ...IF IT DOESNT WORK.... SO THERE YOU GO....BYE
Oh, sorry to hear that. The Amiga still works fine, btw and I confirmed with electronics engineers that the caps are absolutely okay to use in this context.
Can u come to my house and recap my A600, its not leaky yet but time time you know
Those low value ceramics play an entirely different role to electrolytics on any board. If it were ok to replace the electrolytics Commodore would have done so. Those ceramics are much cheaper.
+Brek Martin Ceramic caps of these higher capacitances weren't around when the A1200 was made actually. And they are a lot pricier than electrolytic caps even today (if you don't believe me look the values I listed in the description up on your favorite electronics supplier's site). Pretty new technology.
I take that back since I was talking about the values, and you probably already know there are other reasons more than one type of capacitor are used.
+Brek Martin Yes, most of the original electrolytic caps are in parallel with a small capacitance ceramic cap to account for high frequency filtering.
Ask to yourself : why the engineers decided to use the electrolitics instead of ceramics ?
Because the MLCC capacitors that were available didn’t have the capacitance needed. The ones we have readily available today were almost science fiction in the 90s and more or less experimental. Also, of course, cost reduction.
That's the wrong way to do it
A NE SURTOUT PAS FAIRE AINSI !!!! Pas de pince pour retirer les condensateurs (utiliser un fer à souder/dessouder) et PAS de condensateurs en céramique, malheureux !!!
Pourquoi?
Hiiiii
Watching your technique gives me anxiety.
I am using a completely different technique now, watch my recent A600 recapping video if you are interested. This was a first try. The A1200 still works fine though.
Shaking hand. Not good for this job.
Indeed. The A1200 still works fine though. ;)
@@JanBeta You finished good work. Good night.
OMG....awful way to do this job.
A booting machine is NO sign of woking caps!
+ChuckyGang Right. Sorry if it came across like that. I was just happy that it worked at all. Tested it for 10+ hours after this. Works a treat. No signs of any malfunctions.
you will notice the problems after much longer time using the wrong type of caps. actually they are doing NO good atall so in time. (maybe long time) it will damage your machine.. so remove them and put in correct caps instead if you want to actually protect your machine.
Please tell us how Ceramic of same value caps can do damage to the board? I want to know the reason why so if people ask me.
+Amiga Warez The capacitance of ceramic caps changes quite a bit if you apply voltage. It works quite well if you carefully choose the caps (higher voltage ratings than the electrolytics) but it will never be as accurate as the original values. So there MAY be issues.
they simply behaves different. and one important thing with the caps is to get rid of rippel etc. the ceramics will simply just don't do it. so it is close to run the machine without caps atall. the protection is gone.
it will "work" yes. but so did the machine with the bad caps aswell.
and if your PSU (that also should be recapped) is bad.. well.. it goes into your machine. caps cannot handle it. and after a while maybe failures. all by saving some pennies using the wrong caps. worth it? nah! use same type just better quality. when designing the board they have caluclated for more stuff then just capacitance.. and also. ceramcs have different capacitance depending on voltage applied etc. just. behaves different..