At 11:02 you mention the guybrush sim and the dps gain. What fight length are you using? My problem with Kiss is that in a 60s-90s fight I still believe DF is better just because of the uptime. In a 20-40s fight Kiss is obviously king, and once you hit 135s+ kiss gains its value back because of the double use. I do agree with you though about sims undervaluing the Execute + Kiss + DW synergy. Would like your thoughts on Kiss and fight length. Weapons are definitely king because of just the sheer overall upgrade, but I almost think getting the Mark of the Champion would be a safer pick just because of its consistency.
Great content. Here are my youtube suggestions: Title: Who should get the BEST trinket in the game?? Thumbnail: 5 character models w/ identifiable gear surrounding a giant Kiss of Spider icon One additional content scene: Intro closeup of the trinket and quick visual of the 5 class who want it
Lol pallys are actually good in naxx. Holy wrath and exorcism and consecration add ton of dps and if they saved their holy might stone that 10 mins of godliness
Those 60% dps via melee don't all get the trinket bonus, do they? Keep in mind that you have slice and dice and blade flurry up. So that influences those percentages. I mean, no idea what the numbers are and if it's more or less than for a fury warrior, just a caveat. Similar thing for dps ferals. Mcp is great bc a 50% atk speed increase is better than a stat stick. But if you factor that into what the world best logs show, they don't necessarily have a higher percentage of their damage by just auto attacking. Again, not arguing one class should get it over another, just saying there are caveats. I assume it'd probably be best used in the hands of whoever in your guild deals out the most damage. Edit: okay, the execute argument is actually fair, too. But if we went for highest personal dps gain, percentage wise, it'd be rets and enhancers, for sure ^^
From a pretty good hunter player hunters dont actually even care that much about KoTS since haste scaling is pretty shit for us. Good hunter will go for slayers crest over kots 95% of the time.
people dont really realise that scroll of binding light is better on quick fights by a huge margin compared to kiss of spider personally ill only grab kiss as a retri if it goes cheap as its better for shit like kt but then again is 150ap gonna give more as you will be using hoj
the haste effects from kiss with flurry and rend with a fast enough weapon, I think it's 2.4 weapon speed, will hit the windfury internal gcd, lowering the wf proc chance from 20% to 16.6%. also you state the dps increase for rogues and dual wield fury warriors is around 30-35? Even though enhancement shamans and 2h warriors may do less dps, the dps increase from kiss is right around 40, so if you are calculating who it should go to based on dps increase, it should go to two handers.
What if someone has Empyrean Demolisher then also using kiss of the spider while having the proc. And maybe also having rend buff. 55% melee haste + windfury. And if Lucky Flurry +30%
Sup Sarthe it's Wicked from Whitemane! Ended up getting this on a off-night joint raid with my team and my guild's evening team on a ROLL haha, so now we're Tanking with this! Gonna use a 9% hit Dreadnaught 24% unbuffed crit build with Hand of Rag and or Corrupted Ashbringer to tank as a Fury/Prot 2h Meme spec.. This trinket is beyond amazing, and it adds a great new layer on your playstyle, I can only imagine how good Rogues can utilize this.
Sarthe, do you have any logs for 2s Frost Aura Saph ? Do you think FrR is going to be necessary? Also, there is still a case for giving KoTS to your TOP off-tank. Imagine your guild MT leaving the game until TBC... I think first two to tanks, next down the pike for loyal committed high parsing DPS.
Sarthe, you forgot to mention how rogues benefit from increased attack speed since sword spec and instant poison aren't limited by ppm. This means kiss of the spider will not only statically increased our white damage, but it will scale off of those two sources of damage as well. Not saying its equal to what warriors get from it, but it shouldn't be ignored either
cat druid doesnt benefit more from attack speed compared with classes, the only reason why the farm the pummeler every single week is the fact that there is no real feral weapon in the game
Good video, you did miss two-handed fury wars. My fury war with Hand of Sulfuras+Rend+Flurry+Badge of the Swarm Guard deals great dps without very good gear (I have out dps'd some of our min/max wars with way better gear). i.e. the slower the weapon the more you get out of weapon speed increases. Still hoping to get Kiss of the Spider =D
If you can beat even a no-world buffed fury warrior, that doesn't speak good on you, it speaks horrible on them. 2H fury is more meme than feral dps is.
I think that all of this talk about Classic not being around for long is a bit over exaggerated. Shadowlands is not that interesting and many Classic players just enjoy the gameplay more. I think TBC is coming and Classic will be around for longer.
Sarthe: Give you’re rouges slayers crest if you’re not giving them kiss of the spider so you don’t unfairly distribute gear to one class Also Sarthe: Fuck your hunters give them nothing
Feral should be lowest prio on this trinket. If your guild is playing on horde prioritise this to your main tank. Afterwards give it to the best players that will put it to best use. (look at logs and check whether people actually use their ''on use'' items)
1.21sec maul instead 2.5 is fokin HUGE (haste chants all over place, active pummeler and kiss)
At 11:02 you mention the guybrush sim and the dps gain. What fight length are you using?
My problem with Kiss is that in a 60s-90s fight I still believe DF is better just because of the uptime. In a 20-40s fight Kiss is obviously king, and once you hit 135s+ kiss gains its value back because of the double use. I do agree with you though about sims undervaluing the Execute + Kiss + DW synergy.
Would like your thoughts on Kiss and fight length. Weapons are definitely king because of just the sheer overall upgrade, but I almost think getting the Mark of the Champion would be a safer pick just because of its consistency.
the answer is enhancement shaman
I just got one on my meme machine
hi sarthe. do u use a macro for Blade Flurry and kiss?
Great content. Here are my youtube suggestions:
Title: Who should get the BEST trinket in the game??
Thumbnail: 5 character models w/ identifiable gear surrounding a giant Kiss of Spider icon
One additional content scene: Intro closeup of the trinket and quick visual of the 5 class who want it
So dedicated ret pallys get first. Gotcha thanks sarthe
@@nicholasrai5791 Idiots in comments? well i guess it's common...
Lol pallys are actually good in naxx. Holy wrath and exorcism and consecration add ton of dps and if they saved their holy might stone that 10 mins of godliness
@@nicholasrai5791 I've even seen prot pallies tank Patchwerk.
Now I feel bad I got KoTS before our druid tank...
How about thunderfury? Is that better on a rogue or warrior xD
Dude you know the Law :All loot is Hunter loot we don't have a Bis list..
Those 60% dps via melee don't all get the trinket bonus, do they? Keep in mind that you have slice and dice and blade flurry up. So that influences those percentages. I mean, no idea what the numbers are and if it's more or less than for a fury warrior, just a caveat.
Similar thing for dps ferals. Mcp is great bc a 50% atk speed increase is better than a stat stick. But if you factor that into what the world best logs show, they don't necessarily have a higher percentage of their damage by just auto attacking.
Again, not arguing one class should get it over another, just saying there are caveats. I assume it'd probably be best used in the hands of whoever in your guild deals out the most damage.
Edit: okay, the execute argument is actually fair, too.
But if we went for highest personal dps gain, percentage wise, it'd be rets and enhancers, for sure ^^
From a pretty good hunter player hunters dont actually even care that much about KoTS since haste scaling is pretty shit for us. Good hunter will go for slayers crest over kots 95% of the time.
slayers crest/earthstrike/badge of the swarmguard/ trinket from kt phylactery
jom gabbar too
So we just have to find the elusive good hunter then.
@@mrillis9259 On my server, we have a hunter names Vashna and he’s got all the r14 gear and shit. Man puts up good parses
@@Cynsham I had a few good ones on my friends list back in original.
Good players.
They are great when you find them.
so prio feral druids and warrs...got it
people dont really realise that scroll of binding light is better on quick fights by a huge margin compared to kiss of spider
personally ill only grab kiss as a retri if it goes cheap as its better for shit like kt but then again is 150ap gonna give more as you will be using hoj
I just got week 1 kiss of the spider in our first naxx on alliance herod pvp, Redpill Human Rogue, and i LOVE IT !! IT FUCKING PUMPS!!
the haste effects from kiss with flurry and rend with a fast enough weapon, I think it's 2.4 weapon speed, will hit the windfury internal gcd, lowering the wf proc chance from 20% to 16.6%. also you state the dps increase for rogues and dual wield fury warriors is around 30-35? Even though enhancement shamans and 2h warriors may do less dps, the dps increase from kiss is right around 40, so if you are calculating who it should go to based on dps increase, it should go to two handers.
Ah yes enhancement prio then, very good
@@davidscott4581 I concur!
This definately for Enh Tank Shaman.
This is the way brother
I think at this stage of the game for anyone in a non hard-core guild then it should just be dkp bids haha
What if someone has Empyrean Demolisher then also using kiss of the spider while having the proc. And maybe also having rend buff.
55% melee haste + windfury. And if Lucky Flurry +30%
Now imagine a rogue with slice dice and blade flurry too
Haste stacks multiplicatively, not additive.
Oh I know but your attack speed would still be bonkers.
@@paulswabek173 Yeah, but it would be more than 55%, that's my point. Absolutely bonkers
Sup Sarthe it's Wicked from Whitemane! Ended up getting this on a off-night joint raid with my team and my guild's evening team on a ROLL haha, so now we're Tanking with this! Gonna use a 9% hit Dreadnaught 24% unbuffed crit build with Hand of Rag and or Corrupted Ashbringer to tank as a Fury/Prot 2h Meme spec.. This trinket is beyond amazing, and it adds a great new layer on your playstyle, I can only imagine how good Rogues can utilize this.
Main Tank, First OT should always have prio on KoTS - end of discussion. Especially on Horde side.
Give to whoever has the highest attendance and puts in the most work for guild. If everyone puts in same effort, prio main tank.
Can the haste stack with flurry as well?
all attack speed increases stack
Sarthe, do you have any logs for 2s Frost Aura Saph ? Do you think FrR is going to be necessary? Also, there is still a case for giving KoTS to your TOP off-tank. Imagine your guild MT leaving the game until TBC... I think first two to tanks, next down the pike for loyal committed high parsing DPS.
Priest prio 1, on everything. Even plate and 2handers
hunters for tbc progression right
Sarthe, you forgot to mention how rogues benefit from increased attack speed since sword spec and instant poison aren't limited by ppm. This means kiss of the spider will not only statically increased our white damage, but it will scale off of those two sources of damage as well. Not saying its equal to what warriors get from it, but it shouldn't be ignored either
Poor feral tanks :(
Atiesh hunter weapon or ragequit
Slayers Crest is slightly better than Kiss of the Spider for Fury warriors
Hunter goes yoink
if you are giving crest to rogues because warriors get kiss, just to not "screw a class" then you are doing exactly that, screwing hunters :)
LULW greens
did your hunters get jom prio
cat druid doesnt benefit more from attack speed compared with classes, the only reason why the farm the pummeler every single week is the fact that there is no real feral weapon in the game
Bear benefits though.
How false.
Good video, you did miss two-handed fury wars. My fury war with Hand of Sulfuras+Rend+Flurry+Badge of the Swarm Guard deals great dps without very good gear (I have out dps'd some of our min/max wars with way better gear). i.e. the slower the weapon the more you get out of weapon speed increases. Still hoping to get Kiss of the Spider =D
If you can beat even a no-world buffed fury warrior, that doesn't speak good on you, it speaks horrible on them. 2H fury is more meme than feral dps is.
@@demonwares rofl
You forgot about hunter lol
Definitely holy paladin only class to consider
I think that all of this talk about Classic not being around for long is a bit over exaggerated. Shadowlands is not that interesting and many Classic players just enjoy the gameplay more. I think TBC is coming and Classic will be around for longer.
Remember Shadowlands? Lmao. Me neither
THE Feral druid argument is almost the same as the ret paladin arguement for the trinket, except they have some bs tank prio stuff >
Off tanks and feral have been screwed over 100x by this point which is why they should be able to get them...
Calm down.
If they screwed you before....
@@mrillis9259 it's why I'm in a dkp guild, feral tank gear and healing offspeed gear is free without competition... but I feel others pain
I can't believe that you used a clip where you have to drag kick out of your spelbook during the KT fight hahaha :D @10:52 nice vid none the less !
Says a bit about the one you're listening to, I guess. For me it was a sign on the wall.
Depends how long the avg Naxx boss fight will be...
'brown boys'
butttt.... in T3 rogues get ALOT more energy, soo your energy generation does go up in that phase
Sarthe: Give you’re rouges slayers crest if you’re not giving them kiss of the spider so you don’t unfairly distribute gear to one class
Also Sarthe: Fuck your hunters give them nothing
Slayers crest too bruv
Obvious that its for a hunter
Hunter weapon !
F loot council
ez: rogues/hunters get their fancy 8/9 T3 + noone cares for ferals/enhancers/retris = all kt swords + kots should automatically go to furies :)
#FERALLIVESMATTER
Feral should be lowest prio on this trinket. If your guild is playing on horde prioritise this to your main tank.
Afterwards give it to the best players that will put it to best use. (look at logs and check whether people actually use their ''on use'' items)
it's p6, holy fuck who cares lol