I'm Furious With Cartier - 2020 Watch Collection Response
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- Here is Cartier's biggest problem...
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For 2020, Cartier released a handful of new pieces: the Asymetrique, the Pasha, and a couple of others. And while the modern Cartier collection does a wonderful job of paying respect to the watches that came before, it definitely fails in paying respect to the brand ethos that produced them. Cartier, whether it was their Tank Normal or Tank Cintree or Santos Dumont, has always been a brand that reacted to the world around them. Now, their failure to introduce new models that do the same thing shows, and it poses an impressive dilemma for the brand.
Their Santos de Cartier was incredible, a great, honest interpretation of their classic. Their Tank Skeleton, while a bit big, is still a beautiful and innovative watch. So what do we mean by "new models?" Simple - something from scratch, something that draws on what has always made Cartier Cartier: design.
Picture it -- Midnight on New Years Eve, the world is still ringing in the 2020s, and Cartier drops a brand new watch on the world while all the other brands are sleeping and drinking and reeling in the potential of a new decade. It's a bit late for this now, of course, but Cartier still has any number of chances to bring about this kind of massive, world bending release that could change things for the brand forever.
oh my god, man
im drowning in your cool ego
please somebody save me
I personally like the Cartier tradition of releasing reissues. It links the different models together so they look like a family. I like how if you have the slightest clue about watches you can immediately identify a Cartier watch without looking what is written on it, even if you’ve never seen the exact model before. My understanding of the concept of Cartier watches is that if you like the general „vibe“ you can just choose your favorite(s) out of the family and the new models are excellent additions.
You hated the Crash until you had one for sale!
Christian the used car salesman strikes again
Maybe he only hated it cause he couldn't have it. Like that Taylor swift song.
To be honest, the way this year/ decade is shaping up - I don’t think they have missed a trick.
I think Cartier is on the right track. Their 2020 collection is excellent.
But then again no one can please everyone.
Cartier is like "Theo and who?". You tubers do not influence brands of such epic proportion. You are just a fly on the wall.
Yup.
This guy thinks he is a mover and shaker. Maybe start your own brand.
The watch on his wrist looks like a petite womans watch. This doesnt make you sophisticated.
More like fly sh!t
Cartier Tank Sm, Med, Lg only available in Quartz... make it manual wind or Automatic without jumping to the XL size 😭
I love Cartier to death too but I think we cannot expect brands to always come up with things we want. Everyone's taste is different and it changes over time. There are some models made by Cartier that made me question their design abilities, however, they have their reasons and some people will buy while others don't. Even if the reissues were original to the past designs, there will be people talking shit about them too! The watch enthusiasts community is just way too small for any of these giant brands to take our opinions seriously. They have to consider the mass market instead of catering to just the watch enthusiasts. No matter what it is, we cannot deny the fact that Cartier is still the top 3 watch selling brands in the world. It proves that they don't need our opinions even if we think we are right. Its always good to talk about what we like and what we don't like about a certain brand but thinking that the brand should consult us for our insights is out of the question. We cannot guarantee we can do a better job to be honest. Sometimes i ask myself, if i were tasked by AP to introduce a new line that will become equal footing to their Royal Oak, what would i offer? I have ideas but it might not produce positive results.
guannan « ... The watch enthusiast community is just way too small for any of these giant brands to take our opinion seriously ... » I would disagree. The enthusiast group just needs to be visible enough. Look at Omega making the « Speedy Tuesday » edition following fratello watch. Or some brands like Zenith reissuing truer to life versions of their 38 mm 1969 el primero knowing that you tubers have been promoting smaller sizes. :)
Well said
The Comeback of Cartier would truly be a hell of a way to kick off the 2020 decade for WatchGeeks.
This channel should have 500k subscribers. Love the passion and content.
The Cartier Santos 2018 might just be the watch of the decade. From experienced watch collectors to the new playboy trying to get in to watches, the Santos 2018 is revolutionary. People are getting into watches because of the Santos 2018. Watch collectors are falling in love again with Cartier because of the Santos 2018.
That's literally what got me into Cartier, that's the only one I want. But the blacked-out 2020 Cartier Santos looks like heat fam.
Don’t you think the Santos L blue dial is a thing of beauty?
C’mon Man! Didn’t your parents send you to art school. You have to remember, Christian, if you’re not failing; you’re not moving forward. I personally like some of these new watches. If you look at their full catalogue over 100 years, they have some crazy designs you conveniently skipped past. Your looking at the Cartier through you young mans lens as what you deem relevant based on your perceived trends as to what is hot today.
Open your mind young man. In fact, go west young man; you have much to learn about the world your father can’t teach you ⌚️🙏🏼
Ps - that squished watched they just released in fact sums up this year of 2020. It maybe the perfect 2020 watch that demonstrates everything about the year that wasn’t. Sigh....
It is tempting to believe that passionate opinions can fix a watch company's woes as simply as telling them to "be more creative... like you were 50 years ago". Sometimes companies never recapture the magic. Their greatest hits remain while other creations are forgotten. Also, trends change and so do tastes. As consumers, we buy what is offered or we don't. That is the only vote we get. It is up to the designers to design... not us.
I truly feel bad that your favorite brand is not what it used to be... but that tells me that you should just collect vintage Cartier or focus elsewhere. Plenty of watch companies go out of style... So did my Member's Only Jacket, but I got over it. haha. So, what is your second favorite brand?
The issue I have here is that so many interent watch enthusiasts cry out for new designs but then blast a brand for doing something new (i.e., Code 1159, Tudor P01, etc.). Sometimes I think brands are damned if they do and damned if they don't. And what's with the Cutty? That stuff is undrinkable straight up so good thing you poured it over a pile of ice. The PBR of Scotch whiskey.
I absolutely agree with you! People love to rush to judgement, and its hard not to. And actually, I don't blame the people (as long as they're remaining civil, which isn't always the case). Its not the communities job to love a product, its the manufacturers job to facilitate that love. That said, I think that we do reject so much that we're not familiar with. While not perfect, the 11.59 is a fantastic watch and, in my opinion, going to be a legend once they fix some of the bugs.
I’m like you in that Cartier is my favorite brand. However, I disagree on your reissue point. If I take, say, 5 examples of 3 Cartier icons; Tank, Panthere, and Santos. Then I take five examples each of a sub, a date-just, and a Cellini, I’m going to have a much tough time distinguishing the rolexes’ individuality. As a non-expert, that is. I still want it to look like a Cartier.
Agree, there’s a reason why subs and DJs basically haven’t changed for half a century, it is a signature of the brand. In the same way the tank and santos is undeniably Cartier, there’s no mistaking what you’re wearing when you have a Santos on your wrist.
I love and respect Cartier and would love to own one. However when my wallet opens up I’m going Reverso first in this category of horology.
Finally cartier is going the right way. They were getting too big and trying too hard to be modern. They arent. Thats identity crysis. They are getting back to the classic design.
Stop the mimimi...
The worst possible thing Cartier could do is take this advice...
How? Would love to hear your reasoning!
What about the Roadster? Admittedly that was a few years ago but it was strikingly new.
Cartier: flamboyant yet classy.
Undeniably. But I prefer the stoic elegance of a perfectly executed Marine Deck Watch with silver dial and a big, beautifully crafted tractor of a movement.
This is the only channel where I learn a great deal about Cartier and I love it!
I mean they obviously can't please everyone. I personally thought the collection this year was stunning. Brands aren't always going to cater to the niche aspects of the watch world, although I wish that was different.
No, brands can't please everyone. But shouldn't they want to be looked upon favorably by their most dedicated audience?
@@TheoandHarris I definitely agree with you. I was just saying that sometimes that isn't going to be the case, as money sometimes is more important for them instead of pleasing us watch enthusiasts. Thanks for replying. I thought this video was cool and I am loving the influx of Cartier-based content. This channel really boosted my passion for the brand.
I have little or no interest in Cartier as a watch brand but I love your passion for them. BTW, where's Anna? I look forward to her Monday videos. Keep up the good work.
A channel here on TH-cam made a great video on why Enthusiast Brands in the smartphone industry ultimately fail their core-user / fanbase, and I think there are a lot of takeaways from his video to explain the overall development of Cartier in this case.
Nice video mate. Weird question, but what brand is your polo?
thank you!! And actually Uniqlo!
It took me a year to find this video - but I think Cartier is undergoing a transition from outsourced movements to in-house movements and that is why they won’t release anything too innovative doe the moment. Let’s hope a daring designer will give us something exciting! Meanwhile, I still think their existing lineup very classic and beautiful.
love your polo shirt. where is that from?
Loving my all carbon Santos adlc . I like that Cartier flexed a little bit recently and hope this type of experimentation continues
Hey, while I do think you reasoning insightful, you seem to have forgotten about the Rotonde, Ronde, the Calibre and, juste last month, the Maillon all recent original designs. But then maybe that is exactly the point, these models seem to go under the radar and people focus on well known classic designs. Brands can’t do much more than follow where the market leads.
Hey man! Thanks for watching! I definitely wish I spent some more time talking about some of Cartier's other new and interesting releases - their Ecrou, Clash and all of the haute horology watches they've released, for example. Their jewelry line is impressive, for sure. And maybe their Haute horology is exploding? Maybe! And if so, thats amazing for them. Definitely shows their not resting on their laurels. But the collector community needs something traditional once every, lets say, 5 years! Not hard!
The skeleton Tank is pure class!
2 weeks ago we haven't seen Ana, what's going on?
The current strategy of most of the brands like Cartier right now is to entice people not because of the "art" behind it, but rather the status symbol it can provide. The growing population of people who has a purchasing power has little knowledge behind the history and artistry of the brand. What they are aware of is the status symbol behind it.
There's only a handful of people like you and me that appriciate them beyond thier brand name.
Considering you are very familiar with the Cartier brand, what do you think of the Tortue CPCP XL models? Will they fit well on a 7” wrist? Appreciate your inputs! Thank you!
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to express it. At the same time, criticism is for those unwilling and/or unable to create. There is nothing easier to do as it relates to the watch industry, or any other, than to wait for a brand to release something, then suggest what could have or should have been done.
Thanks for watching, man! But I absolutely disagree with you. While every community is filled with miserable people that love to crap on anything and everything (maybe to help them feel better?), the idea that criticism is for noncreators is ludicrous. Thats like saying coaching is for cripples.
@@TheoandHarris thanks for your reply! Love the channel. Had you taken the time you spent criticizing Cartier and used that to create something, Cartier would be the same and we would have something that you created. Multiply that by a billion. Which is better? We do not agree on this. Looking at someone else's creation and finding fault is easy. Creating is hard. As you know very well.
Thank for introducing me to that skeleton piece. Cartier continues to grow on my want list. Sad the base model Santos Dumont is in quartz now.
Why is it sad that it is a quartz watch?
This is really good insight...T&H love your content. Maybe someone mentioned already in the comments below but this thought came to mind. Cartier at its core is a jewelry brand. This doesn't discredit the fact that over time the Maison has created amazing timepieces and movements. With that said, with any major brand that has been around for decades (and centuries in some cases), face the inevitable question, "who is our customer?" Dollars and a certain level of risk play a role into how much a brand is willing to invest on what will yield a ROI. What Cartier does really well, is focus on what is making them money. In my opinion, watches isn't what is bringing value to brand recognition...hence reissues on the "classics" they're known for (that their clients tend to wear as 'jewelry' not haute horology). But then again, what watch brand has anything "new"?
That Scotch looks so suspect 😂😂😂😂
What do you think about the cintree skeleton?
Great video. I am looking at the Cartier Tank Must XL as my first Cartier. I would guess you might think it is a slightly bigger dial than you prefer but I want the automatic movement and the nicer dial. What are your thoughts on this? Thank you.
I bought this last year. It’s a beautiful watch. That XL size is not too big
Hey Christian, a litte dated question, but do you feel the current Tank Louis WGTA0011 is a solid buy? It probably doesn't give as much 'value' as say, a Reverso Tribute or Classic Duoface (both of which are at a lower price point vs the Tank), but its the one that I keep thinking of. Cheers mate, next drink's on me.
Let's get a movement going to have Cartier issue a MEDIUM-SIZE Tank, BUT with a MECHANICAL MOVEMENT.
Cartier Louis tank?
@@glenbuyer8738 I meant the Tank SOLO models, but apparently there are no medium-size models for the Tank LOUIS as well.
I agree that Cartier has made many classics through its history, but it also has a long history. So even in the past, Cartier also didn't create classics every year. Not only Cartier can't do, nor any other brand in my memory can. I just purchased my first and second Cartier watches this year for my wife and myself - a pair of Santos Dumont. They are just a reissue, but in my opinion they are among the best pair watches you can find in the current market (excluding the vintage watches).
I agree with you! I think a good strategy would be to release something truly new and interesting once every 5ish years. And again, I love reissues! But a brand as supposedly genius as Cartier has to innovate now and again!
Great video. Cartier is my favourite brand too! I agree with u on the fact that they limit the risk by innovating and enjoying - maybe too much- their cash cow..
which brands do you think could take cartier’s place?
Platinum cintree with a platinum brickwork bracelet
Hey Christian, do you know anything about vintage Bucherer watches? I have this beautiful Art Deco gold plated, tank style watch with what I assume original black dial and an obscure in house caliber, that I know very little about. Would love to send you some pics.
Christian, another great episode. I too share your passion for Cartier. I think you may be a little rough on Cartier. Not only was the Drive a new watch but so was the Roadster from 2001. I do not want Cartier pandering to the community with something brand new every year. I want then to take their time find inspiration and present a thoughtful exciting watch that will look even better as time goes on. I loved the show keep up the great work.
Agreed! I think one truly impressive and decidedly Cartier innovation every 5 years would even be a great start.
The decade ain't over yet. 😉
You look like you are wearing your grandma’s watch. 😂
not just cartier, most brands are stuck with boring reissues - the equivalent of terminator 5, mission impossible 4 - they do not want to take a risk or innovate, just want to guarantee sales. Problem is new watch prices are so high now, they cannot take a risk on a new design because customers are also not willing to take that risk on such high price pieces - ultimate perpetrators of this is omega and the million speedmaster limited editions they release
The asymetrique is 100/100 would love to own one
Cartier has many iconic designs, and an iconic design is one needs to maintained throughout the decades with regular tweaks to keep it fresh and interesting, and there are only so many designs a brand can support like that. So its not sustainable for Cartier to come up with entirely new designs every year.
I love the Cartier Drive and potentially will purchase one in the future.
The new ticking intro almost had me like...
"This speech is my recital, I think it's very vital
To rock (A rhyme), that's right (On time)
It's Tricky is the title, here we go"
Noice bike
Awesome video Christian.. What are your thoughts on the new Omega Constellation gents 39mm Manhattan watch.. With the integrated bracelet. I know that watch has a rich history.. I would like to know.. Now that their is so much hype on integrated bracelet style Genta Design watches out there.. I would appreciate it.. Keep up the great work..⌚😊👍
I don't think you'd get an answer here.
These are not reissue, these are evolutions... Hopefully, with a bit more experience, you'll be able to have another look at Cartier
I think you are too focus on watches as being targeted to male consumers.
I recommend everyone to look at the stunning pieces such as the Panthere revelation watch. 5 years in the making and patented by the Maison.
Could you please do a video on examples of true/worthy innovative designs or movements in the haute horology world in the last 5 years please. I feel like most watch brands are going in and out of the same revolving door...in circles...rather than launching out of orbit into the vast expanse to capture a true moment of awe and inspiration.
Maybe the H Moser QP comes to mind…but it’s initially a 2006 design. A Lange 1815 Tourbillon Zéro Reset, FP Journe…but again, very few examples
The way you talk about Cartier, is how I feel about so many brands today. Companies need to hire people such as yourself, people with unrelenting passion, to take the helm of their strategic branding visions.
would love a cartier solo large size with automatic movement. currently only the XL is automatic
Scotch and Soda? Nice one my guy.
Mad that you own a crash, actual chaos!
You should work for Cartier.
If you see this Cartier, give him a call.
Your love for watches is overwhelming, I just realise how your love for these pieces of art is deep rooted in your soul. You’re a watch lover if ever I saw one.
thank you, Steve!! Have an amazing day!
Your enthusiasm is inspiring.
What is that thing that you find at the end of a bell called????
Rolex Daytona and Panerai Luminor used to be ignored and unpopular too!! Some even considered them hideous at that time...
Until Paul Newman and Stallone set it straight
I think you may be upset because you may be breaking up with Cartier. I’m not trying to be smug or cute here, I think watch fans develop relationships with brands and when either one or both naturally goes a different way...it’s time to move on. Luckily no vows should have been exchanged before consummation.
As long as Cartier keeps the Tank Solo around, I'll be happy.
Im surprised in the era of the steel sports watch you didn't mention the roadster.....I own one as part of my collection as well as a few rolex…..I think that case is the most unique steel sports watch I have seen and it is about as well made as anything I have seen or worn. I always hear watch collectors saying they would love them to reboot that with an inhouse movement etc etc.....but it goes along with what you said....Anyway I know your love of cartier and never have I heard you talk about the roadster.....would like to know what you think.
I do love my Tank Americaine... just sayin’.
How was the Cutty? Feel the burn!
Your leaving the cabinet open really bugged me. You didn't offer me a drink, a bit rude. But, I agree with you on what you said concerning Cartier. I own numerous Cartier's, my favorite being the Basculante. I hope that they are not reissueing another basculante. It seems to diminish the original watch.
Angelus Avila It wasn’t open.
What do you think of the Clè de Cartier?
I really like Cartier but I'm certainly no expert. So take my comments with a grain of salt.
Cartier is a design powerhouse and will continue to be one. That said, they do need to sell their products...and that means making things that the public will buy. While we all want to be the most discerning and educated buyer, 99% of the people who buy Cartier don't care about the history of a design or how it originates. The fact that whatever they're looking to buy is from Cartier is a good enough justification of said piece. Cartier like most old succesdful brands aren't looking to take huge risks in reputation to grow substantially - they've done that. Their strategy is innovation through evolution. Introducing new elements to successful lines of products and grow conservatively that way.
I also think Cartier is focusing on their watch department a little bit more, with vintage reissues and special editions (something very popular in the watch industry). Also take a look at their new high horolgy stuff, I think they're exquisite. I wish the best to Cartier and very keen to see their development.
I feel like Cartier is in a particularly hard yet self-imposed position. While a traditional brand by virtue of its age, they’ve always been like works of art and liberal in their design vs Rolex’s conservative design. That’s not to say Rolex watches are devoid of artistic merit. As a result, I feel like Cartier is bound to a sort of perpetual struggle with remaining traditional but also appealing and advancing in what is modern art and design.
Anna and Christian agree?
I had a first-reference Calibre de Cartier and absolutely loved it. Ultimately sold it because the bracelet never fit correctly and did not have micro adjustments for my preferred tight fit. Since 2010, the value of the watch absolutely tanked by about 50% and my only guess is that it doesn’t appeal enough to people. Still, the Cartier watches that made their way through the T&H shops have all been absolutely stunning.
Love Pasha and the story behind it. Quartz movement for tank Louis 18k gold wtf not worth it. Disappointment
Why is it a disappointment that it is a quartz watch?
man, one has to be so deep into this hobby, to genuinly understand your point. What you said here, is something we, subconsciously knew, but were unable to articulate.
thank you so much, man! Means the world!!!
I need a tank, what's the ideal size? There are so many out there and the sizes are all over the map. I like small watches but not dainty. Help.
Try the "Large", it's still a small watch. The XL is oversized.
Weird and confusing video on one hand you are praising them for their re-issues, (which are necessary to maintain their rich history, DNA, pedigree, and identity) while at the same time criticising them for not coming up with something new every year. It’s not the 1900s any more; there is a lot more competition, a lot of other brands get exposure now and a lot of people air their opinions. Cartier can’t be top of the pile all the time, especially if they experiment with something new that doesn’t sell and is economically damaging.
If it ain’t broken don’t fix it...
Well, last three years have proven you wrong. On the other hand, it's hard to follow logically what your criticism is.
Nowhere near as bad as AP doing flop with code 11.59 or making 100th reiteration of Royal Oak
always on point!
I feel like there needs to be intentionality in something new, not simply producing a loss leader to placate the watch community. I feel some of their newer models were exactly that
Is that a le Creuset casserole.
In this episode your trying to hard Bro... I mean we value your opinion, otherwise we wouldn't be watching, but in this case perhaps a tad of objectivity would be nice.
Каква е тази логорея!
I respect your opinion but Cartier doesn’t need to reinvent themselves, they’re doing just fine with their legacy.
I completely agree, Cartier does not need to reinvent themselves. They need to, like any team, continue to win. Not just talk about their glorious past...
His kitchen is very clean no look.I wonder if his microwave is hidden away.Kitchen very beautiful
This was your best advice by far! Offering free advice that's worth millions in future revenue to Cartier shows true love for the brand and for the this hobby. In the words of the great Samuel L. Jackson, "You Know Me. It's My Duty To Please That Booty." Thanks for saying what we couldn't or didn't.
Christian, I think I may be able to speak on some counterpoints to your take during our discussion. Not to debate, but perhaps to give a bit defense to their focus on compilations...
Let me know what you think.
This man embodies the Cartier Tank
Although dipping into a back catalogue is fine if done sympathetically I definitely agree with you . I think there has been a lot of laziness With the bigger brands . Rolex rest in there arses to. Change a bezel and bracelet here and there what happened to design ideas and innovation?
What about "new" Santos Dumont LE?
Hello Christian, thanks for the video and
stirring up conversation. With the internet now serving as a massive archive
for brands and also with the addition of the vintage and used market, we are at
full reach of a brands history. In your last video, I stated that Cartier has
lost the plot a little, here is why; Cartier is synonymous with a whitish base
dial and black numerals (Arabic or Roman) and all of a sudden they are
releasing a Silver sunburst Santos Dumont, Blue sunburst Santos, just recently,
a black dial, with white roman numeral Santos Dumont with gold hands?
Anyone who has properly followed Cartier will find it hard to accept some of their modern releases. So, here is why they are being accepted;
The very same reason you are going against the brand, reissuing their older lines!
They now have a clean slate with the modern generation to start creating newer variations on their past model lines.
Like I stated before, these colour variations give me the feeling that it is not a loss of creativity but simply Marketing strategies to push out more volume under a particular line. As mentioned, they have a clean slate with their new generation of consumers, however, if you
present these new watches to a collector such as John Goldberger, he will freak out!
Being a romantic watch lover such as yourself, these new variations on their historical pieces are a massive, massive shock to my system.Will I ever accept these newer variations?
Maybe, however, their older models had perfect colour schemes and did not need
revamping, in my opinion and I am sure in Mr. Goldberger’s opinion too, lol!
Now, I will finish by answering your question on if reissuing is a bad thing and if it signifies a loss of creativity by Cartier; No, because Cartier’s historical lines were lost and they have started relaunching them such as the recent Santos. It seems there has been a large time gap between model updates, hence the relaunch of their existing models.
Also, do not forget that Cartier has been highly criticized for just being all about aesthetics and the relaunch of their model lines seem to address this problem with the use of
inhouse calibers (Well, kind of inhouse).
Finally, my message to Cartier is to pay attention to details. For example, in my opinion the Tank Americane automatics are totally ruined by the clumsy second hand they have in there. Just compare your older Americane to the newer ones, some of us do not have the money to afford vintage and that is where Cartier has left a very sour taste in my mouth.
What always surprises ex’s me is the conservative approach to metallurgy classic watch companies like Cartier uses. Most often you can get stainless steel, platinum, white gold, yellow gold and their home brewed rose gold. And it always seems to be 18 carats. How boring, why can’t a design lead company like come up with something slightly more innovative and exciting. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if they came up with gold mixed with pulverized green copper oxide, or maybe layers of different metals to form a ‘plywood’ of metals? Just imagine a Tank Louis with sides of perfectly laid layers of sparkling differently colored metals. If I can dream it up so can they!
they tried, calibre de cartier, roadster, ballon bleu... but people keep shitting on them. which i disagree, i thought those watches are nice
isn't this kind of true for most watch brands? i haven't really seen Rolex do anything innovative in a long time & AP has been living off the ghost of the Royal Oak for a half century. When AP tried something new w/ the code 11:59 if flopped like a dead trout. So the path to innovation & staying relevant is probably always going to be laid w/ catering to the largest common denominator & by the time they're no longer able to draw on the history of the brand. by then.............. no one will really care about watches in general. which is something that's slowly happening already.
I’m praying they reissue Cartier basculante
I just ate an oyster on top of my tank solo large.