To be fair, if you watch the final version of the pilot episode, Sheldon is far more sexual than in even the second episode (more akin to this version). He seems mildly interested in Penny and even competes a little with Leonard for her attention - it's subtle, but it's there. Even in the opening at the clinic it's implied that he does a LOT of self pleasuring at home - something the later, nearly non sexual Sheldon doesn't seem to have any interest in at all. Also, after seeing how a bad pilot of what was quickly a great show almost had it destroyed, how is it that Mayim Bialik's show "Call Me Kat" ever saw the light of day? It is one of the WORST sitcoms I've ever had the misfortune of watching - and Amy was possibly my favorite character from Big Bang (after her first couple of seasons once they found her full character).
"Katie was manipulative, angry and not fun to watch" thank god the producers realize that and replace that character with Penny, a manipulative, angry, not fun to watch bimbo
I feel bad for the actress lol She was probably doing what was asked of her. Imagine being the only one fired from the cast and then watching the show blow up in popularity.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Denise Crosby the wise? She played chief of security Lt. Tasha Yar in Star Trek TNG, but she *quit* halfway through season 1 because she felt her character wasn't getting enough of the spotlight. TNG went on to become a massive success, sweeping the Emmy awards in 1992 and 1993, and every main character got many episodes dedicated entirely to themselves over the course of the series.
When people talk about the relationship between Penny and Sheldon (which I agree IS the heart of the show), they don't point out WHY the relationship works so well. It's because of ALL the guys on the show, Sheldon is the ONE guy who she doesn't have to worry about hitting on her. So she can let down her guard with him and that's what makes the relationship (and the show) work.
Sheldon can be very charming in his own ways, when Penny was financially in red, Sheldon offered to lend her a hefty sum. She was very flabbergasted by this, and wanted to confirm with him, he casually resplies how it would be a greater inconvenience if he had to be asked for change by her everyday from her box on his way to work. This immediately pursuades Penny to take the money and allows her to be reassured that he is doing it out of his friendship, and not for ulterior reasons. Sheldon's worst straight is being too socially straightforward. But that is also is best trait
It goes both ways. Sheldon knows she isn't sexually attracted to him and he is good with that. They each get some benefit from the friendship that early on neither would claim existed.
they are similar in the final show too, both are childish and too atached to their mothers, both are mean and egoist, the only major difference is howard is horny and he is totally aware of the stupid things he does while sheldon is oblivous but understands when people take their time to explain how childish he is being
@@devforfun5618 Nahhh, Howard is attached to his mother and Sheldon loves his mother, Sheldon IS childish but Howard's had a kid like attitude but it went away in s10 - 13 and Howard is humorous on purpose.
I for sure felt like the writers were initially going to make Leonard the star of the show, a sort of Ted HIMYM and with Penny as Ross and Rachel. I think they never expected audiences reaction to Sheldon's quirky personality. Sheldon went from being the sidekick to a lovable [although often annoying] character of the whole series.
I’ve honestly felt the same. You also may notice that at the beginning of the show, the story is more around Leonard and where he goes and what he does. It’s only a little later that the show starts to focus on everyone else as well
To me the dynamic between Penny and Sheldon is the most essential driver of the show. In fact, I think Penny may be the catalyst for what goes on with the other characters.
In Spanish we call it the "el quinto en discordia" which is a character that doesn't seem essential but necessary in order to get the story moving. No one would care to watch four guys who lack social skills without a character who is the opposite. It would be boring.
@@Barb5001 I think is more simple; Penny is the mother he never had the same than Leonard is a protector/dad . He has a mind of a child who never fit in his family due to being Asperger.
@@Lyrielonwind I believe the issue with Sheldon is he just much more intelligent than most around him. He can not understand that others do no see the the wold as he does.... This really frustrates him and he feels compelled to set others straight as he see it This is fairly common with high intelligent people Most eventually realize that people do not like frequently letting others know that you are smarter than they are and they stop doing it but, Sheldon never did
Gilda is NOT AMY. Gilda is Lesley Winkle, who was in the first season. Amy wasn't even imagined until after season 2 and the writers have said that themselves. If you look at Lesley and Gilda you will see nothing but similarities. They are the same character.
Yeah they couldn’t have continued with Sheldon being kinda pervy and sexual but disliking physical relationships at the same time. I think they especially put it into Howard, who before he met Bernadette was just a pervert engineer who was not really anybody’s favourite character.
The replacement Penny was their best decision! She couldn't have been more perfect for the role! It was very believable and I quite enjoyed the chemistry between all the characters of the show. I still haven't completed the entire series, but I have been catching up.
agreed. I was never a kayley cuoco fan before, I found her annoying ad hell on 8 simple rules and the pilot of this, but then I started to really like her as penny :)
Not only I’m so grateful for Penny, but for Raj and Howard too! Can’t imagine the show without them! They are just as essential as Sheldon and Leonard.
It seems like adding Raj and Howard turns it more into a Nerdy version of Friends which s a formula that works. I think the problem with OG Penny is she lacks charisma. She's not likeable. All the other characters are likeable including the new Penny.
@@GizmoMaltese I'm going to bet its the writers fault not the actress. They had to rewrite how the character is and "katie" is just being played to how it was poorly written.
@@Dan55888 pretty much. Aired Penny is the type that realizes those nerds make a good wallet and gets them hooked until they’re married at which point they became married Penny.
I think it might be more accurate to say they tried to turn Gilda into Leslie, and when that character didn't really work out (She's not in nearly as many episodes as Amy after all) they tried to recycle the concept yet again and created Amy.
Gilda appears to have qualities of both Amy and Leslie (Amy's awkwardness and Leslie's aggressiveness), so I would venture to say that she was the model for both characters.
I wonder if they created the Gilda character with Sara Gilbert's Darlene Conner character in mind, in hoping that the character would have the same chemistry as Gilbert did with Galecki on Roseanne.
Fun Fact: The actor who plays Leonard was originally slated to play Sheldon. But the guy who plays Sheldon did such a mesmerizing job portraying his own unique version that the directors went with him, instead.
Really? From what i heard, Leonard should be the main star because he’s a friend of Chuck. But Sheldon. So originally Leonard should be the main star with Sheldon as side kick. But later on become main star as well because of the reception. And Howard and Raj follows.
Not quite. Johnny Galecki refused the role of Sheldon because he wanted to play Leonard. Then, and only then, did they go looking for a new actor to play Sheldon. Jim Parsons won the job.
I think you’re wrong on one point: I think Gilda was the template for Leslie Winkle. They’re both (from what you’ve shown) dominant intellectuals and wanting sex but not love from Leonard. Amy was extremely awkward and initially almost robotic. Then they changed her into a more “normal” but still socially awkward person.
Even weirder, the show was originally going to be called "Lenny, Penny and Kenny". Lenny would become known by his real name, Leonard, Penny kept the same name, and Kenny became Sheldon.
@@GoneFishingAmalgam Speaking of which, the four main male characters can be compared to the four main boys in South Park: Leonard = Stan (the "normal" one and intended main protagonist) Sheldon = Cartman (the jerk, the most popular of the four characters, and has a rivalry with the Jewish character) Howard = Kyle (the Jewish character, and has a rivalry with the jerk) Raj = Kenny (the shy one) And by extension, Penny can be compared to Wendy (the love interest of the "normal" one), and Stuart can be compared to Butters (the "honorary" member of the group).
@@Mr.Heller Well, I was really referring to how Kenny doesn't speak nearly as much as the others most of the time. Raj is the same way, at least in the earlier seasons. He had to be drunk to even speak to the girls at first.
Penny is the heart of the show, and it's her enduring and abundant *love* for everyone in her life but especially the guys that makes the show successful. That change was crucial
I think it's cruel to say she was fired. She was hired for a pilot. Then they recast when it didn't work along with script changes, changes to characters etc. It's not unusual at all. Fired would be if they kicked her out half way through shooting the pilot.
Also... i saw that pilot years ago and find it strange that people try to compare a finished 12 season show with a pilot that has a different story (as he pointed out). Sheldon and Leonard are more open but still... nerdy and they also have a female friend who is planning to hit on leonard and sees the "hot girl" as a threat to her plan, while she doesnt even see Leonard as a potential partner. The episode ends in a way that you can see that the nerds want to become more "cool" and that the "hot girl that gets everything she wants because of her looks" starts to notice that the nerds might be the better choise over the people she normally interacts with. I would go as far to even argue that Chuck Lore (who made this AND two and a half men) just used the same plot in Charly, because before Sheen got fired the story was also heading for "maybe the correct way is the middle way between Aleen and Charly" just like in the original bigbang the story was "maybe the instagram start should be a bit smarter and the nerds a bit cooler"..... and yes, that's just not was "our" big bang theory was about, but it was about how the people in our lives shape us.
Sometimes an actor would do several pilots in a year, or every year do a pilot or two. They're one shot jobs that pay the bills and might, if they're very lucky, turn into an ongoing show.
The unaired Buffy pilot is an even bigger trip, because it’s basically the first episode, with all the same shots, sets, and actors, except there is a different Willow, and it’s shot with cheaper cameras, lighting, and no audio or visual effects.
In many ways Penny is the antithesis of Sheldon and hence that pair is what the show revolves around. Yes Penny is romantically involved with Leonard but Penny & Sheldon’s interaction causes both of them to grow as is the catalyst for the growth in the other character..
@@thatoneguychad420 Both Penny and Sheldon come to realize that Biden/Harris are the worst pres/vp in history and that they are turning American into a commie country. Happy?
@@nothanks6549 penny was unwatchable in the end. specially through season 10,11,12. and raj's character didnt get a proper ending. even after 12 years.
@@nothanks6549 I absolutely agree with you, however, i'd like to add that I really liked the episode when Penny realized that her dreams of becoming an actress are unrealistic and she needs to be devoted to her "boring" job as a pharm sales rep, and after that she put more energy into her job and therefore gained more success (to the point that another pharm company tried to steal her). At that point she was a good role model for young people (incl me). :)
@@nothanks6549 Agreed, plus I do not think it is a good lesson for viewers that the person who literally wasted her life is now making more money than the characters who literally spent their entire life on their passion and won countless science awards.
@@TrueUnderDawgGaming and Bernadette, who worked hard to get her degree in microbiology and helped get Penny the job, makes even more money than that... all this is really doing is highlighting the higher earning capacity of working in the private sector over academia
To be fair, even in the final version, it still took a few episodes for the showrunners to know exactly what to do with Sheldon. Case in point, the very first scene, which is the two boys visiting a sperm bank! We know from later episodes that Sheldon, while not rich, is comfortable enough financially that he has thousands of dollars that he can loan Penny on a whim. And imagine a world in which Sheldon would touch himself for money! There is absolutely no possibility that the final version of Sheldon as we know him, would ever visit a sperm bank.
It is even worse. I dont recall exact words but when Sheldon contemplates whether he can do it (before explaining that the object of his fear is that offspring would end up dumb as his sister), Leonard tells him that he is "an expert" implying that Sheldon masturbates a lot ....
But the final version of Sheldon is the same guy as the guy in the first episode so how do you explain that wise guy. Leonard also says in the first episode that Sheldon was the king of masturbation or words to that effect which means he used to jack off a lot.
I'm so glad that it all got changed, it just wouldn't be the same big bang without quirky Sheldon, Raj, Amy, and the whole story line. Thank you for informing me about this original pilot. One more random fact I can add to my noggin. 😁❤️
Male penguins compete with female penguins by bringing home massive rocks. Whoever has the biggest rock is desired by the female. Just thought I'd give you one mor random fact for your noggin.
@@fabulousk9014 How is it mysoginystic? If she was mean, she was mean. You can criticize a female character, a real woman, or even a type of woman without being mysogynistic.
The message of this video is profound: Listen to criticism. It might not always be valid, but you have to swallow your pride and listen to it. I love that, because people today are all about “not listening to haters” and ignoring criticism when in reality, some criticism and introspection is good for you.
the irony pf course is that the show stopped listening to its detractors, once they found a ratings hit. But the actual comedy writing was still terrible 85% of the time.
I've worked as a creative professional all my adult life (non-fiction writing, not entertainment). Knowing when to listen to critics and when to stick to your artistic vision is one of the key factors in developing a successful career.
The thing is, is Penny is one of the nicest and most forgiving characters on the show. Most of the time though, all the characters are being mean to each other. The show certainly wouldn't work if everyone were nice.
Well, not exactly. ALL characters are both nice and mean sometimes, and that's one of show's strong points, because it makes for realistic, believable characters. As an example, look at Bernadette: she's is often incredibly sweet, and yet sometimes she's cruel, mean and vindictive. I.e., realistically human. Sheldon and Amy are somewhat meanier without intention, because of their autistic traits.
Chuck Lorre does a LOT of depressing sitcoms (Mom, B-Positive, later episodes of 2.5 Men) but THIS incarnation of BBT would not have lasted half-a-season. WAY too dark...!
Most pilot episodes have bad lighting cuz they don't have as good of a film crew, pilots are just a low budget first episode to try to get networks to fund the show
I know the original actress, we went to school together. My heart broke for her when I found out she’d been replaced. It wasn’t her fault, the writing and character wasn’t because of her
@@adamhawn2523 I mean it’s hard to feel that chemistry when the character is written as mean and condescending. The writing itself can cause chemistry issues on screen if there’s no charm to the character
its one thing to write a pilot and for it to fail, its another thing to write a failed pilot, and COMPLETELY flip it to be one of the most successful shows. Such amazing writers
What a difference, the peny we got was more human and wasn't above making herself look silly while original penny looked down on others and had a unbalanced femdom persona. As a girl I prefer, the imperfect penny we got than the cookie-cutter one on the unaired pilot. I dislike those "I'm perfect" girls like that. Sheldon and Penny we got were more wholesome.
Eh, that's not necessarily true. we see the "mean girl" archetype get humanized in a lot of shows. And along the way they become fan favorite for character development. Just bc you don't like a character, doesn't mean they aren't a good character. Some of the worst characters have the best development
@@LuxTheMArble not pick me, I'm not into men. I'm a lesbian. I met "I'm perfect" girls and tired of them. I rather date girls like penny who don't take themselves too seriously.
despite all the hate this show gets, i’m so glad that it pushed Jim Parsons closer to the spotlight. He is quickly becoming one of my favorite actors from his works since this show. With the boys in the band, hollywood, extremely wicked, the man is a joy to watch.
@@vidhatrimysoor9385 it's misogynistic yeah, but surprisingly, as a woman it didn't bother me that much. i think starting with seasons 6 and 7 it got better and the show started to bring into discussion more problems that women face in society
In some ways, the pilot was a more accurate representation of what the show would become by around season 6 rather than how it would start out. It's like they did make the changes, but once it was successful they reverted back to a lot of the original plans.
Its funny how they were successful in the beginning because they listened to feedback, but then later on when receiving the same feedback they doubled down and it became garbage.
@@rhinehard206 It's something I like to call the "George Lucas effect", when you unsuccessful if you are given feedback, you must listen to it or your project will not see the light of day. When you are successful either people are too scared to criticises because you did that successful thing that made alot of money, or you don't have to listen to the criticism because you make alot of money.
@@matthewloughran73 the usual problem when creators are listening to the feedback of the people is them thinking that it's not their story anymore and fans are controlling the show. It's like the fans wants to take the credit on making a show great and it hurts the creator's ego and also in a way that fans are disregarding the creator's ideas because they have criticisms about a show that they started watching. It's like people is dictating how to live your life basically like a parent
The pilot looked like it would have better pay off tbh. I think the jokes didn't land well and it was poorly executed but the chance for good character development was there. Sheldon and Penny would have had great turn around and people would be happy for them. The show we got well you kind of somewhat disliked some of the cast but them winning you over wasn't a giant leap or anything.
The resulting BBT was so different on every level, the dynamic of Penny in the group and in the one-on-ones of the group gave a rich circle of friends story, the geeky guys also living more of a life you might expect, not a lot of love life and plenty of games and sci-fi movies, the comic book thing was really a touch. What they hit right was the second dynamic, Penny was not the all confident, clearly smarter and wiser type, she had plenty of vulnerabilities besides not being as well educated as the boys. Penny and Sheldon were almost like bothers and sisters, purely platonic and feisty.
I can't help but feel that pilot was truer to Chuck Lorre's writing. There's always this mean spiritedness boiling under the surface in his shows, that exploded in some moments in Two And A Half Men, and this pilot has that laid bare. In most sitcoms you have the sense that we as an audience are laughing with the characters, but in his shows we are supposed to be laughing AT them. There's not this sense of comradery between the cast and audience like you'd find in a show like Friends or 30 Rock, just mercilessly mocking these characters and revealing in their pain.
I’m not sure if you were including the show proper in this description but if you were .... yeah . That’s what eventually started irking me about the show. It always seemed like despite penny never being all that mean to anyone , she was pretty much there as the audience surrogate to point at the other charecters and go “neeeeeeeeerrrrrd!”
I don't think that is the exact problem as if that is the approach chuck Lorre is trying to give is ok just not for an American audience if you see the office uk the show is kind of mean to the characters and do like to make fun of their pain and awkwardness but even if it wanted to be an American sitcom it could also be plausible but again it could not be a Multicam sitcom it should look more like Malcolm in the middle a show that also mock their characters but just approached comedy from a complete different point than the Multicam sitcom and I think is the laughs in the background kind of make it feel bad
@@rainquarm to be fair tey aren't just nerds but pretty bad people. There is some really nasty casual misogyny from the guys with spying on women. Later on we see them be insecure, petty and outright cheat. Of course sitcom characters often need flaws, but its usually balanced by the feeling most of the characters are fundamentally good and so we root for them. The type of show where the characters are bad people and we enjoy watching them screw up can totally work, but always felt BBT was written as if we were supposed to like the characters but didn't actually present most of them as likeable.
@@101Mant yeah , that was kinda my point , theres always some degree of sympathy that the audience naturally has towards characters that are the protagonist. but at the end of the day , the show was always an outsiders show where you were supposed to laugh at them, they might be kinda sympathetic but theyre still "insecure , unsocialized , neeeererrrds!
Which seem more of a stereotype. Having been to graduate school in the sciences, that are normal, smart, and attractive women there like Alex. Ramona is debatable since she did seem more like the stalker type. Of course, there are also women like Leslie Winkle there. More career oriented as well as men hating women who blamed men for the lack of progressive. Yes, they see men only as a mean to achieve a biological urge.
Weird. Growing up I almost always preferred the nerds over the popular guys. Still do. I just find the nerdy men more relatable and easier to talk to since I like video games, anime, manga, and such. Also fyi. I find the stereotypical nerd look adorable.
Why's the lighting so.. horror-vibe? When you showed the quick cut of the actual set @ 4:37 with the warm, bright, inviting lights, the contrast was unbelievable.
It was probably really cheap and lazy lighting because actual pilots don't typically get air time. Even if they didn't rework the show that much, they would have still had to re-film it.
This actress would make Sheldon look like a serial killer. Nothing funny about him either with her. Penny really softened his character. Balanced him out.
because its all low quality standard dev, its a black mark for the studio and was tried to be erased. It is literally stated in the first minute and a half of the video.
@@andreicecold4379 “Black mark for the studio” is BS. A lot of studios have to rework/recast a potential show all the time. As a matter of fact, taking a shitty pilot and turning it into one of the most successful tv shows is considered a success, not a black mark...And No studio (movie, tv, or music) erase anything. Everything is stored.
Even in the final version there was a lot of changes in characters personalities. For example, Penny started off as a stereotype of a really dumb blonde with the only quality of the beauty. But this changed, she become more smart and the "pratical mind" of the group, more like a raw country girl. At first she wasn't able to build Ikea forniture, after a while she were teaching the guys how to go fishing
True for all of them, I think. That’s the writers/showrunners figuring it out too. For example (out of the ones I’ve noticed): -Bernie-she started off normal voiced; only gradually/later did her voice get very high pitched, especially later to offset the gimmick with Howard’s mom -Amy initially also wasn’t into physical; she just wanted a fake date/boyfriend to get her overbearing mother off her back -Stewart. His personality did a compete 360. He was actually very confident and well-to-do
I never saw Penny as the dumb blonde. More like, she was the regular person who was socially smart, showing what regular people see when having to be neighbors with intelligent, but socially inept guys.
Not only is it worth mentioning that Katie movies in while Penny just moves next door, it is also worth mentioning WHY their stories are different. Katie moves in because her mother kicked her out after finding out Katie was having an affair with Katie's mother's boyfriend. No one feels bad for that; Katie deserves what she got. Penny moves door because she's a country girl with big dreams of becoming an actress. When Penny is down on her luck (e.g. working for Cheesecake factory), you do feel bad for her. Therefore, like you said, you root for Penny to get together with Leonard, but you root for Katie to stay away with Leonard. In fact, you would rather wish for Gilda to get together with Leonard instead of Katie, which throws off the premise of the show.
I mean it depends on the tone. Her character could work for dark humor, or if she was an idiot asshole who constantly got her due for it like Michael Scott.
Nothing against the pilot episode actress. She's awesome in her own way. But Kelly Cuoco defines Penny, such an iconic and memorable role! Her comedic timing was phenomenal. Really love her.
you shouldnt they are just not good enough, it's like feeling sorry for a millionaire because one of his businesses failed because another company could do it better or cheaper.
It happens a lot man. And it's not like they got fired, but they didn't exceed the trial period before getting hired. Only thing that is sad is that sometimes they didn't get hired because of the character they played. It had nothing to do with their acting skills. Like a pizza restaurant who hires a pizza guy to make pizzas. But that guy didn't exceed his trial period because by the end of his trial, the company wanted burgers, and not pizzas.
While I agree with most of what you said, I feel like this mindset is the reason why we have so few women main characters in ensemble casts. The problem wasn't that there were two women, it's that the writers decided that if there were two women, then they must be in competition with one another.
In a show about romance, competition is one of the best and easiest ways to get conflict, which drives stories. The problem wasn't competition but the competition didn't make sense and conflicted with the story. By removing a character, they could have the guys compete, though focusing mainly on Leonard.
@@Kenfren It's a show about nerds and the interactions between nerds and non-nerds. Not romance. Most of the episodes (and this pilot) do not pivot around romance, that is a sub-plot. It's barely How I Met Your Mother. Let's say you're right though, isn't it a little suspicious that they removed one of the women characters instead of one of the men characters? Isn't it weird that it contributed to the Big Bang Theory being yet another sitcom with a male dominated cast? It's incredibly naive to ignore how gender plays into these decisions, and to ignore how these decisions effect how genders are treated differently in the industry.
The whole idea that „woman“ is a type of character is insane to me. That’s why so many female characters in media are flat as hell. It’s because their only characteristic is „woman“
Yet, when all of the girls got together the only thing that they talked about half of the time was boys. With the male characters, they were allowed to have discussions about science, movies, computers, electronics, and so forth. When it came to the girls, they dumbed down Bernadette and Amy into man-seeking harpies so that Penny could feel included.
The Sheldon and penny dynamic was amazing because they both had what the other person wanted, Sheldon was the kind caring person who was a best friend and someone who she could always rely on, and penny was the person who got Sheldon out of the his shell even without him knowing
I've seen the original pilot, and the character of Katie is fundamentally unlikeable. It is also ridiculous that two people would invite a homeless woman they just met to move in with them, and even more ridiculous that she would accept their offer. It is much more plausible that a new neighbour would befriend a couple of nerds in spite of the differences in their education.
Yeah that was weird, he even said "they share the same hair-style" while showing different hairstyles... It felt like he was going to make a point about Gilda being the first Leslie Winkle and then suddenly couldn't get the rights to Leslie and just lied and pretended he meant Amy!
My biggest criticism of the show is that Sheldon STILL isn't a consistent character. He swings wildly back and forth on his principles from one episode to the next.
@@jensenkansas567 Or like he's poorly written by writers who don't personally understand scientists, nerd subculture, or people with social disabilities.
@@jensenkansas567 I love TBBT, it's one of my favorite shows of all time! But a person can't really be allergic and non-allergic to cats at the same time, not the way Sheldon is. There are A LOT of contradictions to his character. I still like the show even if it's flawed.
@@atinity6749 I agree. I do like the show. I think the writers try to be funny and relatable with genuine enthusiasm. I also have a lot of respect that you are willing to critique the issues with one of your favorite shows. I would go so far as to say one of my oldest friendships (a platonic friendship with a girl I've known since middle school) almost feels symbolically represented by the friendship/relationship between Leonard and Penny. She is a fun-loving, strong woman with interests considered traditionally feminine, who has, with time, learned to deeply appreciate me and my eccentricities. She really loves the show and we would often watch it together; In the past she has implied that she understands my interests and that of my friends through the lens of Penny's character. It's wholesome stuff. Do I think the show is all that well written? No. Do I think Jim Parsons, Kaley Cuoco, and Johnny Galecki hold the it all together? Absolutely. Leonard and Penny have real chemistry. TBBT will always have a deep and personal place in my heart. A bit of a guilty pleasure, you might say.
@@goopapa4758 Agreed! The writers squandered a real opportunity to teach households throughout America about the difficulties that people on the autism spectrum manage in their daily lives, and even make his more asshole-ish idiosyncrasies more human and forgivable. There are a lot of moments where he just comes off like a jerk, and we're supposed to just chalk that up to "he's such a nerd, haha!" when instead they could have written in some real vulnerability for his character by acknowledging his difficulties understanding other people's intentions and that he sometimes accidentally hurts other peoples feelings or makes them uncomfortable. It doesn't have to be super heavy, it just has to be real and wholesome and delicately written. Had they capitalized on the opportunity, Sheldon could have actually stood as a role model for kids with Asperger's everywhere, as a character who learns to communicate with his friends more explicitly so as to overcome his social blind spots. That's not to say Sheldon doesn't grow at all, he certainly does. But they had room to be way more open about his neurodivergence.
I agree with half of it. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gilda looked a lot like Sarah Gilbert. I think the plan was, for making only one of the roommates into liking women and the the other asexual. I think Sheldon coupling up was a natural progression as Leonard and Penny became a steady couple and treating Sheldon as their adult foster child could only last so long.
All the females I think changed over the course of the show, Penny was more natural and actually kinda made sense, Bernadette started as kind of oblivious and innocent and turned into "lol small lady bossy", and Amy started as prude-ish and also oblivious like... kind of a female Sheldon and then she turned more into "I want sex with Sheldon" in a way.. like she became less reserved while still dressing like she was
Indeed, beat her up for being mean because only she is allowed to be mean. But she is allowed to be mean and manipulative because they're "her" boys and she pretends to be nice to them to get what she wants The actual penny is just as bad and awful
I watched this pilot years ago and it's really strange. I barely finished it. Sheldon authistic personality is more suitable for the character and the dynamic with an insecure Leonard and a naheeve kind hearted Penny works more cohesive for the trio, also the decision to replace the other girl for Howard and Raj and their bromance added more dynamism for the plot, imo. Guilda character wasn't scrapped completely, she was in the beginning portrayed as Shenlon's archinemesis Leslie Winkle and after as his romantic interest (later his wife) Amy.
I'm not really a BBT fan, though nonetheless I found THIS video to be exceedingly insightful and dare a say... useful. I feel more comfortable with being receptive to critique without losing face. good stuff, thank you Nerdstalgic
Based on the 2:00 minute mark "the original penny was a mean lady who was manipulative and angry" .... so basically an ACCURATE depiction of a woman rather than the "sugar and spice" mythos amero-european culture has made them out to be.
I have seen the full original pilot and I had to watch it twice😳 simply because I could not believe how first incredibly bad it was and second how even more grateful I am for what we actually did receive. Oh thank you for stopping this first rendition before it was out there. I have as many millions of others spent many hours enjoying the only version of the Big Bang we will ever need.
This reminds me of a later episode. Where a new neighbour moved in upstairs and manipulated the guys and didn’t care about them. Penny initially felt abandoned by the guys but after talking to Sheldon went back and defended them
These guys' attractiveness were the least of their problems. All of the BBT actors were good looking to me, but it seemed so unbelievable the characters ended up in relationships.
I read about Sheldon initially being written as a pervert before but I hadn't heard the rest before. Very interesting. It was my late husband's favorite show. Don't know if I'll ever be able to watch it again without getting emotional but I did make it through this video so that's a start. Other than all the more obvious things I'm more grateful for, I'm glad I got exposed to the show because of him. I probably wouldn't have watched it otherwise
Penny has taken advantage of the guys, but she was subtle and sensitive to how they were so naive, which allowed the manipulation look and feel innocent enough.
@@FirstnameLastname-gr5kb Howard is fun. Pathetic, but fun to watch. Raj is boring, I'll give you that. However, Penny just annoys me in the setting the show is written. Sure, a non scientist is essential to add, but you talk about stereotypes, I see Penny.
@@lostfigure3703 Not a great fan of the actor (while it being the only one I actually knew before the show came out lol). The character is like fry from futurama for me; not great, but still a key character to tie it together.
I dont know how you can stay objective and *not* shit on it. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to think its a good show. I like a lot of bad shows but I don't pretend they are objectively good.
Thank you, it's kind of sad to see everyone hating on the show when I know I'm not the only one who has a soft spot for it. My brother is autistic and he actually has benefitted from seeing Sheldon's social problems because he can more easily understand how it comes off to other people and be more cognizant of that moving forward. And this video nails it on the chemistry. Say what you want about the show, but the actors play off each other really well.
@Nerdstalgic Hey, what's the music @6:59 ? It sounds extremely similar to Ik Kudi by Arpit Bala, however that was only released in the year 2023. The intro has astounding resemblance.
@@yeebler Over and over the show makes jokes about the fact that the characters know science or nerd culture. That is not actually a joke. Just lazy writing.
@@justameeple6012 I watch it with my girl, and I have to admit, I agree with what you said. Part of me likes it because it’s a “turn off your brain and watch while you eat” kind of show. Something you can watch without being engaged whatsoever. But man, the whole “Batman would never date Harley Quinn because Harley Quinn is The Jokers girlfriend” “in issue 345 of Auquaman” “I watch Star Trek” “haha Darth Vader” shtick gets old immediately. It’s like we the viewers are treated as if we’re Penny, and these guys are super nerds for knowing the most basic of stuff about comic books and such. It’s also not just not funny, but actively unfunny. The “jokes” are almost always not even jokes, and if it weren’t for the laugh track or crowd cued to laugh, well, the show wouldn’t exist. Definitely a lazy, slapped together, modern (for when it was coming out) sitcom that tries way too hard to go “haha get it, because we’re nerds”. Ultimately I’m the sucker though. Because I watch it anyways
As an American show, yes that pilot didn't work. But as an English show i feel it could of. One thing i see in a lot of our English comedies are characters like the original Penny. With good writing, story and ultimately change and growth in her character, i feel would of been good appeal over here. Who knows.
@@Broccoli_Highkicks”Of” is wrong. People use it because they don’t think about what they are saying and that it’s actually the contraction “‘ve” that derives from “could/would/should/must have”. The ‘ve is a removal of “ha” from have, but some people just hear the “ve” and think it is “of”. It’s not.
Good video, but I think Gilda’s character may have been transformed into the “Leslie Winkle” character played by Sara Gilbert in the show (and she shows up in the first season). Of course, this is just based on how you describe the character in this video.
mean penny was directed to be that way, but no chemistry for sure. However, the nerd girl was fantastic, and should have stayed. She was excellent in her role and fit the group of nerds like a glove.
Yeah, something like Bojack Horseman: all the main characters starting like horrible and/or broken people and going from that point to trying to become better and healthier than before.
Wait, the cast of Big Bang Theory were meant to be likeable? With the perving on women, cheating and pettiness? I found most of them to be pretty unpleasant. Maybe they git better after I stopped watching.
@@101Mant Oh no, they still are, without a doubt, big assholes. The thing is that the show never treats them like they are horrible people, so they never really change in meaningful ways. My argument here was that if the show was about them being assholes and suffering the consequences of that in a funny and /or grown up way, it could have been a better show. Probably a dark comedy like Bojack Horseman or something close.
@@101MantIf you objectively look at them, basically all sitcom casts are horrible people. Horrible stuff can make for a good joke. BBT cast isn't particularly bad in this department.
@@frosthammer917 I could never watch the Big Bang theory because of the way it’s frames and the way the cast is so misogynistic and awful, I just get sad
I really wish the show continued another season or 2 and would wrap up Rajs story and Howard finally coming face to face with his dad, etc. But oh well.
I'll say this: This, to me, explains some of the directions the Penny character took. In later seasons, I've felt like she became more harsh and such, while the opening version is more softer and kindly. I wonder if they may have been working out the version they wanted, in Katie, into the character of Penny, later on in the show.
But that feels organic. You are kinder to people you're just meeting for the first time and as you grow closer to them, you become harsher, since you know what makes them tick. If you're harsh from the beginning, you're just an asshole.
What makes me wonder is how the makers replaced katie with Penny but still wrote such a horrible character like 'Anu' for Raj? And the actress selection is even far worse.
when i was in highschool i unwittingly bought a t-shirt with a reference to the show, without ever seeing the show. people would say weird shit to me when i wore that shirt and i was very confused abt it for a while 💀
Thats funny. I bought a Mystic Warlords of Ka'a t-shirt from a thrift store for a dollar. Just needed an extra shirt that I didn't mind accidentally ruining on a camping trip. I had it on part way through the road trip home and some guy pumping gas near me shouted "enchanted bunny!" I looked behind me and nobody was there so he was definitely talking to me. Looked at him like he was insane, then just kept pumping my gas. He said "Mystic Warlords" and pointed at my shirt. I looked down at my shirt not knowing what he was talking about and said "oh I think this is some old card game or something. Did you used to play?". He says "yeah, it's from the show Big Bang Theory". We chatted about it for a few minutes. He even offered to pay for my gas if he could have it. I told him "I'm up to about sixty bucks right now. I don't think you want to do that." He offered anyway. haha I had no idea what it was even though I had seen all the episodes with the game in them. Glad I didn't destroy it out there.
@@heatshield Had you been a fan, the "Enchanted Bunny!" comment would have been a hilarious bonding moment. 😉 It seemed to be a good experience anyway, so I'm happy for you.
Pilots are pretty rough, and often they are pitched as a vehicle for some well known actor. So, the other actors know that this is something they can put on their resume, but no guarantees they’ll be part of the main cast if it gets picked up.
@@phabiorules As nice as that would be there's zero evidence of that ever happening. It's a reality of the acting world where pilots don't always keep the same actors when the show gets picked up. Amanda Walsh went on to have her own career to support herself.
@@kutter_ttl6786 I heard it from a friend I have in the entertainment industry (production, not talent), and if you've made $72 million dollars off of a show, it isn't too far fetched to feel bad for someone who was cast in your role before you.
Great advice. Every artist, whether it be writing, painting, music etc, needs to remain open to constructive criticism. The hardest lesson I had to learn as a writer is that every word I put on a page is not gold. Great scenes, no matter how well written, sometimes just don’t work and will need to be scrapped.
I feel like especially in the last few seasons, Penny did kind of start to seem unlikeable, because she acted in much the same way as this alternate Penny. It got to the point where almost every interaction she had with Leonard was some sort of put-down, and same goes for Bernadette and Howard. I started not only disliking them, but also finding Leonard and Howard kind of pathetic for just tolerating this abuse.
@Christopher Wiggins That's the problem, many males do just that. Continuing the constant sexualisation and open sexual harassment of characters, such like Howard did to Penny in the first seasons or when Howard and Raj tracked the supermodel house down, in TV shows and series without showing that the perpetrators were given any consequences keeps telling men to think it's okay and it's normal. Sadly, it's normalised. But it's inhuman and disrespectful.
@Christopher Wiggins what the hell are you talking about anyone who makes unsolicited sexual advances towards someone who does not want it is a creep weather is its a guy or a girl
Yes! I am a women and I like scifi and comics, and in TBBT I would be a nerd then.. because, smart women don't like this stuff, the only thing I didn't like in the show..
My main take away was the creators’ response to the feedback - they took negative feedback and made positive improvements. Seems like everything today has bad story, characters, jokes, etc. But the creators/company don’t care, push out a bad show/movie/comic, and then blame the fans for being toxic and why no one likes their product.
Not caring about a girl's grief and wanting her solely sexually is much worse than not caring because he doesn't understand her socially and thus doesn't want anything to do with her (sexually or socially). I would argue what we got is better than what Sheldon was originally which could have been a nerdy, quieter/creepier version of The Office Season 1 Michael Scott.
@@MatecaCorp I always loved Sheldon, in many cases for the very same reasons that made him obnoxious to the other characters. I probably wouldn't get along with him in real life, but he expressed a very genuine frustration with "typical" people that I can really relate to--and he got his own spin-off, which is more than can be said for the other characters--which I think means I'm not the only one who resonated with him the way he was written.
i love the penny we got instead. she was sweet and even though she is plain and stereotypical (who in that show isn't) she has a personality and it deepens as the seasons go by. i loved sheldon and penny's relationship, it was genuine.
I'd prefer BBT if it fully embraced the culture it's trying to represent. When you watch Dead Pixels or The Guild, the characters speak in a lot of slang and code and only explain it if a 'normie' needs them to. BBT's dialogue about nerd stuff is so explanatory and unnatural, and it's so that it can be universally understood ie so that the audience can be as wide as possible and give them higher ratings/more money. Takes me right out of the show.
Also most of their jokes are making fun of the group over half the cast is apart of, either with demeaning their interests all together, or playing to old stereotypes; like all of them being incompetent and perverted with women. It's obvious they don't actually care about geek culture, it's just a cheap gag
The show never did try to represent nerd culture, it caricaturized it. That in itself isn't a problem, but it still pretends to represent it. Now you have issues like sheldon cooper claiming that carbon nanotubes are twice as strong as steel but only half as heavy, that string theory is M-theory but for laymen, and not knowing whether he wants to get the new xbox or playstation console instead of both. Even if they didn't try to make the show understandable for "normies" or whoever, it still wouldn't work.
Silicon Valley is a good example of a show about nerds where the humor isn't in mocking them or bringing up random pop culture references with a laugh track as support.
@@TheAssirra Yes! How could I forget IT Crowd? I know it's a dying format but I highly recommend people to get the series on DVD. The bonus extras are amazing.
:-? I don't think he was talking about Penny by that point. He said: "... and how one of television's most iconic characters was originally kind of a mess." He was talking about Sheldon there.
Penny is definitely iconic. Literally all 5 main characters Penny, Sheldon, Raj, Howard and Leonard are iconic. Just look at shows viewership numbers and overall reach. Like it or not...TBBT was a massive success.
Funny enough, I'm just now almost done watching season 12 of my first run through of TBBT. So happy they decided to rework the pilot and include Raj and Howard in the friend group.
Some of these Big Bang Theories Are Dark... th-cam.com/video/DncR7H2OVIk/w-d-xo.html
To be fair, if you watch the final version of the pilot episode, Sheldon is far more sexual than in even the second episode (more akin to this version). He seems mildly interested in Penny and even competes a little with Leonard for her attention - it's subtle, but it's there. Even in the opening at the clinic it's implied that he does a LOT of self pleasuring at home - something the later, nearly non sexual Sheldon doesn't seem to have any interest in at all.
Also, after seeing how a bad pilot of what was quickly a great show almost had it destroyed, how is it that Mayim Bialik's show "Call Me Kat" ever saw the light of day? It is one of the WORST sitcoms I've ever had the misfortune of watching - and Amy was possibly my favorite character from Big Bang (after her first couple of seasons once they found her full character).
"Katie was manipulative, angry and not fun to watch" thank god the producers realize that and replace that character with Penny, a manipulative, angry, not fun to watch bimbo
What was the music you used for your outro, the second last bit of music. When you were closing up your discussion rather
This really show really helped an ex girlfriend of mine
Amy is a robot is my theory
I feel bad for the actress lol She was probably doing what was asked of her. Imagine being the only one fired from the cast and then watching the show blow up in popularity.
Happens a lot more than people think. But those long running sitcoms are pretty much a dead thing.
Gilda got fired aswell and then replaced by Leslie Winkle and then possible even Amy later on
No one will know which sitcoms blow up. Almost 100% luck. Big bang theory isn't funnier than any other sitcom that didn't make it
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Denise Crosby the wise? She played chief of security Lt. Tasha Yar in Star Trek TNG, but she *quit* halfway through season 1 because she felt her character wasn't getting enough of the spotlight. TNG went on to become a massive success, sweeping the Emmy awards in 1992 and 1993, and every main character got many episodes dedicated entirely to themselves over the course of the series.
She didn't fit in it happens sometimes
When people talk about the relationship between Penny and Sheldon (which I agree IS the heart of the show), they don't point out WHY the relationship works so well. It's because of ALL the guys on the show, Sheldon is the ONE guy who she doesn't have to worry about hitting on her. So she can let down her guard with him and that's what makes the relationship (and the show) work.
Yes !
I would say they also have a brother sister relationship
this is what drew me to the show tbh
Sheldon can be very charming in his own ways, when Penny was financially in red, Sheldon offered to lend her a hefty sum. She was very flabbergasted by this, and wanted to confirm with him, he casually resplies how it would be a greater inconvenience if he had to be asked for change by her everyday from her box on his way to work. This immediately pursuades Penny to take the money and allows her to be reassured that he is doing it out of his friendship, and not for ulterior reasons. Sheldon's worst straight is being too socially straightforward. But that is also is best trait
It goes both ways. Sheldon knows she isn't sexually attracted to him and he is good with that. They each get some benefit from the friendship that early on neither would claim existed.
It’s almost like the original version of Sheldon was a messy combination of Sheldon and howard
true
they are similar in the final show too, both are childish and too atached to their mothers, both are mean and egoist, the only major difference is howard is horny and he is totally aware of the stupid things he does while sheldon is oblivous but understands when people take their time to explain how childish he is being
@@devforfun5618 Nahhh, Howard is attached to his mother and Sheldon loves his mother, Sheldon IS childish but Howard's had a kid like attitude but it went away in s10 - 13 and Howard is humorous on purpose.
Yeah, Howard was a bit of a creep.
Exactly
I for sure felt like the writers were initially going to make Leonard the star of the show, a sort of Ted HIMYM and with Penny as Ross and Rachel. I think they never expected audiences reaction to Sheldon's quirky personality. Sheldon went from being the sidekick to a lovable [although often annoying] character of the whole series.
mostly annoying
Annoying lol. I mean, at the beginning he was cool but they really just made quirky his whole personality to the point that it became annoying
I’ve honestly felt the same. You also may notice that at the beginning of the show, the story is more around Leonard and where he goes and what he does. It’s only a little later that the show starts to focus on everyone else as well
I think many shows have that 1 character....star treks spock.......
Kinda like what happened with family matters.
To me the dynamic between Penny and Sheldon is the most essential driver of the show. In fact, I think Penny may be the catalyst for what goes on with the other characters.
That's how sweater comedies work.
To me, the developing friendship between Penny and Sheldon is the most interesting as it seems that they are basically each other's alter ego
In Spanish we call it the "el quinto en discordia" which is a character that doesn't seem essential but necessary in order to get the story moving. No one would care to watch four guys who lack social skills without a character who is the opposite. It would be boring.
@@Barb5001
I think is more simple; Penny is the mother he never had the same than Leonard is a protector/dad . He has a mind of a child who never fit in his family due to being Asperger.
@@Lyrielonwind
I believe the issue with Sheldon is he just much more intelligent than most around him.
He can not understand that others do no see the the wold as he does.... This really frustrates him and he feels compelled to set others straight as he see it
This is fairly common with high intelligent people
Most eventually realize that people do not like frequently letting others know that you are smarter than they are and they stop doing it but, Sheldon never did
Gilda is NOT AMY.
Gilda is Lesley Winkle, who was in the first season. Amy wasn't even imagined until after season 2 and the writers have said that themselves. If you look at Lesley and Gilda you will see nothing but similarities. They are the same character.
That was my impression as well.
I agree
Exactly!!!
And when Leslie failed for the same reason Gilda did, they tried again with amy
There's a reason she changed so much so quickly
You're an crazy.. He's an insider he got alot of this info from the writers
I feel like Howard and Raj's characters were created to put Sheldon's pervy aspects somewhere else
Yeah they couldn’t have continued with Sheldon being kinda pervy and sexual but disliking physical relationships at the same time. I think they especially put it into Howard, who before he met Bernadette was just a pervert engineer who was not really anybody’s favourite character.
Sheldon really did make spawns of himself.
your likely right.
A character flaw makes someone endearing and human but all the character flaws at once makes them worrying and uncomfortable to watch
Making Sheldon asexual makes him less threatening.
The replacement Penny was their best decision! She couldn't have been more perfect for the role! It was very believable and I quite enjoyed the chemistry between all the characters of the show. I still haven't completed the entire series, but I have been catching up.
It gets worse after season 8 for me. Worth watching, but I wouldn't say its a disaster to miss the last few series.
I’ve got all series on DVDs and watching it on Netflix over again,the first and the last series are my favourite😁
@@alviilmie1869I'M FROM THE PHILIPPINES WHERE DO I BUY THE DVD'S I WANT IT
@@trixiemendoza3126 HMV
agreed. I was never a kayley cuoco fan before, I found her annoying ad hell on 8 simple rules and the pilot of this, but then I started to really like her as penny :)
Not only I’m so grateful for Penny, but for Raj and Howard too! Can’t imagine the show without them! They are just as essential as Sheldon and Leonard.
It seems like adding Raj and Howard turns it more into a Nerdy version of Friends which s a formula that works. I think the problem with OG Penny is she lacks charisma. She's not likeable. All the other characters are likeable including the new Penny.
@@GizmoMaltese I'm going to bet its the writers fault not the actress. They had to rewrite how the character is and "katie" is just being played to how it was poorly written.
Totally agree. I love raj and howard the show is incomplet and boring without them.
I don't like Raj nor Amy.
Yeah it would be a very boring and badly written show instead of just a boring badly written show. 🤣
When I first watched the unaired pilot, it was very strange. The original Penny felt super cold and unfriendly.
Where can you watch it?
@@funnyfurryfriends186 I think it's on TH-cam
Tbbt unaired episode
Lol no wonder even the audience was like, "we dont like the mean lady"
So how women actually act towards nerds/geeks
@@Dan55888 pretty much. Aired Penny is the type that realizes those nerds make a good wallet and gets them hooked until they’re married at which point they became married Penny.
Gilda is definitely the prototype for Leslie Winkle not Amy
That's what I always thought too lol
exactly
I think it might be more accurate to say they tried to turn Gilda into Leslie, and when that character didn't really work out (She's not in nearly as many episodes as Amy after all) they tried to recycle the concept yet again and created Amy.
Gilda appears to have qualities of both Amy and Leslie (Amy's awkwardness and Leslie's aggressiveness), so I would venture to say that she was the model for both characters.
I wonder if they created the Gilda character with Sara Gilbert's Darlene Conner character in mind, in hoping that the character would have the same chemistry as Gilbert did with Galecki on Roseanne.
Fun Fact:
The actor who plays Leonard was originally slated to play Sheldon. But the guy who plays Sheldon did such a mesmerizing job portraying his own unique version that the directors went with him, instead.
Really? From what i heard, Leonard should be the main star because he’s a friend of Chuck. But Sheldon. So originally Leonard should be the main star with Sheldon as side kick. But later on become main star as well because of the reception. And Howard and Raj follows.
@@ernestyunardi7454
Even though the rest of the main cast was all well cast and excellent....Sheldon was so good that he was the best by far
Not quite. Johnny Galecki refused the role of Sheldon because he wanted to play Leonard. Then, and only then, did they go looking for a new actor to play Sheldon. Jim Parsons won the job.
We know.
I think you’re wrong on one point: I think Gilda was the template for Leslie Winkle. They’re both (from what you’ve shown) dominant intellectuals and wanting sex but not love from Leonard. Amy was extremely awkward and initially almost robotic. Then they changed her into a more “normal” but still socially awkward person.
Even weirder, the show was originally going to be called "Lenny, Penny and Kenny". Lenny would become known by his real name, Leonard, Penny kept the same name, and Kenny became Sheldon.
So... what I'm hearing is... "Oh my god! They killed Kenny!"
@@GoneFishingAmalgam Speaking of which, the four main male characters can be compared to the four main boys in South Park:
Leonard = Stan (the "normal" one and intended main protagonist)
Sheldon = Cartman (the jerk, the most popular of the four characters, and has a rivalry with the Jewish character)
Howard = Kyle (the Jewish character, and has a rivalry with the jerk)
Raj = Kenny (the shy one)
And by extension, Penny can be compared to Wendy (the love interest of the "normal" one), and Stuart can be compared to Butters (the "honorary" member of the group).
@@NeoKokoro20 Lol, Kenny, the bigger horndog than Chef, the most aggressive in the super team, the Princess Kenny ffs, is a shy one?
god thats an awful name
@@Mr.Heller Well, I was really referring to how Kenny doesn't speak nearly as much as the others most of the time. Raj is the same way, at least in the earlier seasons. He had to be drunk to even speak to the girls at first.
Penny is the heart of the show, and it's her enduring and abundant *love* for everyone in her life but especially the guys that makes the show successful. That change was crucial
Um no lol Sheldon is. Penny is the pain in the ass of the show.
"Love for everyone" yeah nope...
@@colepeltier8472 penny,sheldon,howard were most funny…idk what ur on about
@@colepeltier8472 Leonard is the whiny pain the ass of the show.
She was the integral part, but had no last name.
I think it's cruel to say she was fired. She was hired for a pilot. Then they recast when it didn't work along with script changes, changes to characters etc. It's not unusual at all. Fired would be if they kicked her out half way through shooting the pilot.
Also... i saw that pilot years ago and find it strange that people try to compare a finished 12 season show with a pilot that has a different story (as he pointed out).
Sheldon and Leonard are more open but still... nerdy and they also have a female friend who is planning to hit on leonard and sees the "hot girl" as a threat to her plan, while she doesnt even see Leonard as a potential partner. The episode ends in a way that you can see that the nerds want to become more "cool" and that the "hot girl that gets everything she wants because of her looks" starts to notice that the nerds might be the better choise over the people she normally interacts with. I would go as far to even argue that Chuck Lore (who made this AND two and a half men) just used the same plot in Charly, because before Sheen got fired the story was also heading for "maybe the correct way is the middle way between Aleen and Charly" just like in the original bigbang the story was "maybe the instagram start should be a bit smarter and the nerds a bit cooler"..... and yes, that's just not was "our" big bang theory was about, but it was about how the people in our lives shape us.
exactly and it ain't even her fault it just didn't work as a fit it happens
No she was just asked not to come back to work because she was a good fit. I wish there was a word for that
Aside from the script, she seems doesn’t have chemistry with them.
Sometimes an actor would do several pilots in a year, or every year do a pilot or two. They're one shot jobs that pay the bills and might, if they're very lucky, turn into an ongoing show.
The old Penny seems more like an Always Sunny character than a BBT one
She even looks a lot like Mary Elizabeth Ellis, who plays the Waitress (and is Charlie Day's wife IRL)
Would’ve made Big Bang Theory a thousand times better
Can we please have that sitcom???
@@DaimyoD0 she does look like her
There was initially a different actress for Dee than Kaitlyn olsen in Always Sunny's pilot too
Why is all the pilot footage so dark? Makes everything feel even more like a fever dream.
well if you put in your own money and don't have fancy sets with 20k arri sky panels everywhere, thats pretty much how it is :D
Possibly due to copyright issues as well
True. They borrowed a set from another show and couldn't use all the lights on set. You can search for the unaired pilot.
The unaired Buffy pilot is an even bigger trip, because it’s basically the first episode, with all the same shots, sets, and actors, except there is a different Willow, and it’s shot with cheaper cameras, lighting, and no audio or visual effects.
Zack Synder filmed it.
In many ways Penny is the antithesis of Sheldon and hence that pair is what the show revolves around. Yes Penny is romantically involved with Leonard but Penny & Sheldon’s interaction causes both of them to grow as is the catalyst for the growth in the other character..
Buck Fiden
'Let's go Brandon'
Yes Fuck Biden lol but in response to the actual comment.
How do Sheldon and Penny grow? They are the same at the end of S12 as they were in S1.
@@thatoneguychad420 Both Penny and Sheldon come to realize that Biden/Harris are the worst pres/vp in history and that they are turning American into a commie country. Happy?
@@JetFire9 red pills for everyone!
I watched that pilot. There was NO chemistry or tension between the characters. It wouldve been a flop if they stuck with her.
It’s crazy how close this show was to a one season flop
yep maybe half season flop, they could terminate the show.
Not even that, they just straight up rejected the original pilot.
We were this close to greatness.
@@jaimeduncan6167 should have been the case
We should have been so lucky
At first, I thought this was gonna be about how Penny went from a high school burnout who wasted her youth partying, to magically rich and successful.
Oh heck comment crossover
@@nothanks6549 penny was unwatchable in the end. specially through season 10,11,12. and raj's character didnt get a proper ending. even after 12 years.
@@nothanks6549 I absolutely agree with you, however, i'd like to add that I really liked the episode when Penny realized that her dreams of becoming an actress are unrealistic and she needs to be devoted to her "boring" job as a pharm sales rep, and after that she put more energy into her job and therefore gained more success (to the point that another pharm company tried to steal her). At that point she was a good role model for young people (incl me). :)
@@nothanks6549 Agreed, plus I do not think it is a good lesson for viewers that the person who literally wasted her life is now making more money than the characters who literally spent their entire life on their passion and won countless science awards.
@@TrueUnderDawgGaming and Bernadette, who worked hard to get her degree in microbiology and helped get Penny the job, makes even more money than that... all this is really doing is highlighting the higher earning capacity of working in the private sector over academia
To be fair, even in the final version, it still took a few episodes for the showrunners to know exactly what to do with Sheldon. Case in point, the very first scene, which is the two boys visiting a sperm bank! We know from later episodes that Sheldon, while not rich, is comfortable enough financially that he has thousands of dollars that he can loan Penny on a whim. And imagine a world in which Sheldon would touch himself for money! There is absolutely no possibility that the final version of Sheldon as we know him, would ever visit a sperm bank.
Interesting, i didn’t think about that!
It is even worse. I dont recall exact words but when Sheldon contemplates whether he can do it (before explaining that the object of his fear is that offspring would end up dumb as his sister), Leonard tells him that he is "an expert" implying that Sheldon masturbates a lot ....
But the final version of Sheldon is the same guy as the guy in the first episode so how do you explain that wise guy.
Leonard also says in the first episode that Sheldon was the king of masturbation or words to that effect which means he used to jack off a lot.
lol they didnt visit the sperm bank for money so stop pointing that out 😂
From what I remember of the episode, it wasn't about the money it was about Sheldon wanting to spread his intelligence through procreation
I'm so glad that it all got changed, it just wouldn't be the same big bang without quirky Sheldon, Raj, Amy, and the whole story line. Thank you for informing me about this original pilot. One more random fact I can add to my noggin. 😁❤️
Male penguins compete with female penguins by bringing home massive rocks. Whoever has the biggest rock is desired by the female. Just thought I'd give you one mor random fact for your noggin.
@@SigmundIII Damn. Between us and the moon we can fit all of the planets of the solar system, including pluto.
"The mean lady should stay away from the sweet boys" 💀
Most fragile and mysogynic sentence ever!
@ᴡɪɴᴛᴇʀᴍᴜᴛᴇ _ still not as bad as "reality tv" fans
@@fabulousk9014 Can you explain how? I dont see it
@@ePai9e It's not. Their comment makes no sense.
@@fabulousk9014 How is it mysoginystic? If she was mean, she was mean. You can criticize a female character, a real woman, or even a type of woman without being mysogynistic.
I feel like the girl who moves in upstairs with the sound system in an early episode is almost an homage to the original character of Katie.
Thought I was the only one
True! 😂
Which episode was that?
@@jeffbenton6183Looked it up, season 2 episode 19.
@@born2hula325 Thanks!
The message of this video is profound: Listen to criticism. It might not always be valid, but you have to swallow your pride and listen to it.
I love that, because people today are all about “not listening to haters” and ignoring criticism when in reality, some criticism and introspection is good for you.
Pay attention to this, Marvel/Disney.
the irony pf course is that the show stopped listening to its detractors, once they found a ratings hit. But the actual comedy writing was still terrible 85% of the time.
@@Dennzer1 It became a routine regular sitcom.
And it turns out the critism isn't even from the guy it's from the people
I've worked as a creative professional all my adult life (non-fiction writing, not entertainment). Knowing when to listen to critics and when to stick to your artistic vision is one of the key factors in developing a successful career.
The thing is, is Penny is one of the nicest and most forgiving characters on the show. Most of the time though, all the characters are being mean to each other.
The show certainly wouldn't work if everyone were nice.
Well, not exactly. ALL characters are both nice and mean sometimes, and that's one of show's strong points, because it makes for realistic, believable characters. As an example, look at Bernadette: she's is often incredibly sweet, and yet sometimes she's cruel, mean and vindictive. I.e., realistically human.
Sheldon and Amy are somewhat meanier without intention, because of their autistic traits.
I think we're missing the one thing that changed and made the show successful.
The lighting. Holy hell was it bad in that pilot.
Chuck Lorre does a LOT of depressing sitcoms (Mom, B-Positive, later episodes of 2.5 Men) but THIS incarnation of BBT would not have lasted half-a-season. WAY too dark...!
Most pilot episodes have bad lighting cuz they don't have as good of a film crew, pilots are just a low budget first episode to try to get networks to fund the show
Has nothing to do with it but okay
I was in a pilot of a show, the set isn’t finalized, they haven’t even added lighting
@@iHazRayGunz Yeah, the street where they find not-Penny looks like it's made of painted cardboard in the background
I know the original actress, we went to school together. My heart broke for her when I found out she’d been replaced. It wasn’t her fault, the writing and character wasn’t because of her
Amanda Walsh! She was also a host on muchmusic in Canada in the early 00’s
It was at least partially her fault. She had zero chemistry with Leonard and Sheldon. That will get an actor replaced every time.
@@adamhawn2523 I mean it’s hard to feel that chemistry when the character is written as mean and condescending. The writing itself can cause chemistry issues on screen if there’s no charm to the character
From what little I saw, she seems a decent actress who was given a nasty character to play. I hope she's been able to find decent work,
You really know Amanda Walsh
its one thing to write a pilot and for it to fail, its another thing to write a failed pilot, and COMPLETELY flip it to be one of the most successful shows. Such amazing writers
They saw, they failed, they changed, they conquered.
What a difference, the peny we got was more human and wasn't above making herself look silly while original penny looked down on others and had a unbalanced femdom persona. As a girl I prefer, the imperfect penny we got than the cookie-cutter one on the unaired pilot. I dislike those "I'm perfect" girls like that. Sheldon and Penny we got were more wholesome.
Femdom penny huh? 🤔
Eh, that's not necessarily true. we see the "mean girl" archetype get humanized in a lot of shows. And along the way they become fan favorite for character development. Just bc you don't like a character, doesn't mean they aren't a good character. Some of the worst characters have the best development
@@LuxTheMArble not pick me, I'm not into men. I'm a lesbian. I met "I'm perfect" girls and tired of them. I rather date girls like penny who don't take themselves too seriously.
despite all the hate this show gets, i’m so glad that it pushed Jim Parsons closer to the spotlight. He is quickly becoming one of my favorite actors from his works since this show. With the boys in the band, hollywood, extremely wicked, the man is a joy to watch.
Why does the show get hate? I do understand that it isn't everyone's coup of tea, that I know
@@Merdicano because its popular, with that much people watching it there's bound to be some who wont like it.
@@somethingsomeone9078 no, it's because it's pretty misogynistic
@@vidhatrimysoor9385 it's misogynistic yeah, but surprisingly, as a woman it didn't bother me that much. i think starting with seasons 6 and 7 it got better and the show started to bring into discussion more problems that women face in society
@@vidhatrimysoor9385 almost every movie or series is mysogonistic. If we can't watch anything mysogonistic we might as well throw out our tv's
It looks like sheldon got split into Sheldon and Howard, and Gilda got split into Leslie and Amy.
That's a very good observation.
And I understand why Leslie couldn't become an Amy, the character was too harsh to begin with
I didn't think about the Howard part, but I definitely thought that about Leslie and Amy
Ahh mitosis
My thoughts exactly! Gilda made me think Leslie personality with Amy style.
In some ways, the pilot was a more accurate representation of what the show would become by around season 6 rather than how it would start out. It's like they did make the changes, but once it was successful they reverted back to a lot of the original plans.
Its funny how they were successful in the beginning because they listened to feedback, but then later on when receiving the same feedback they doubled down and it became garbage.
@@rhinehard206 It's something I like to call the "George Lucas effect", when you unsuccessful if you are given feedback, you must listen to it or your project will not see the light of day.
When you are successful either people are too scared to criticises because you did that successful thing that made alot of money, or you don't have to listen to the criticism because you make alot of money.
@@matthewloughran73 the usual problem when creators are listening to the feedback of the people is them thinking that it's not their story anymore and fans are controlling the show. It's like the fans wants to take the credit on making a show great and it hurts the creator's ego and also in a way that fans are disregarding the creator's ideas because they have criticisms about a show that they started watching. It's like people is dictating how to live your life basically like a parent
The pilot looked like it would have better pay off tbh. I think the jokes didn't land well and it was poorly executed but the chance for good character development was there. Sheldon and Penny would have had great turn around and people would be happy for them. The show we got well you kind of somewhat disliked some of the cast but them winning you over wasn't a giant leap or anything.
The resulting BBT was so different on every level, the dynamic of Penny in the group and in the one-on-ones of the group gave a rich circle of friends story, the geeky guys also living more of a life you might expect, not a lot of love life and plenty of games and sci-fi movies, the comic book thing was really a touch. What they hit right was the second dynamic, Penny was not the all confident, clearly smarter and wiser type, she had plenty of vulnerabilities besides not being as well educated as the boys. Penny and Sheldon were almost like bothers and sisters, purely platonic and feisty.
I can't help but feel that pilot was truer to Chuck Lorre's writing. There's always this mean spiritedness boiling under the surface in his shows, that exploded in some moments in Two And A Half Men, and this pilot has that laid bare.
In most sitcoms you have the sense that we as an audience are laughing with the characters, but in his shows we are supposed to be laughing AT them. There's not this sense of comradery between the cast and audience like you'd find in a show like Friends or 30 Rock, just mercilessly mocking these characters and revealing in their pain.
100%
I’m not sure if you were including the show proper in this description but if you were .... yeah . That’s what eventually started irking me about the show. It always seemed like despite penny never being all that mean to anyone , she was pretty much there as the audience surrogate to point at the other charecters and go “neeeeeeeeerrrrrd!”
I don't think that is the exact problem as if that is the approach chuck Lorre is trying to give is ok just not for an American audience if you see the office uk the show is kind of mean to the characters and do like to make fun of their pain and awkwardness
but even if it wanted to be an American sitcom it could also be plausible but again it could not be a Multicam sitcom it should look more like Malcolm in the middle a show that also mock their characters but just approached comedy from a complete different point than the Multicam sitcom and I think is the laughs in the background kind of make it feel bad
@@rainquarm to be fair tey aren't just nerds but pretty bad people. There is some really nasty casual misogyny from the guys with spying on women. Later on we see them be insecure, petty and outright cheat. Of course sitcom characters often need flaws, but its usually balanced by the feeling most of the characters are fundamentally good and so we root for them. The type of show where the characters are bad people and we enjoy watching them screw up can totally work, but always felt BBT was written as if we were supposed to like the characters but didn't actually present most of them as likeable.
@@101Mant yeah , that was kinda my point , theres always some degree of sympathy that the audience naturally has towards characters that are the protagonist. but at the end of the day , the show was always an outsiders show where you were supposed to laugh at them, they might be kinda sympathetic but theyre still "insecure , unsocialized , neeeererrrds!
Ironically that first version of "Penny" is probably what most nerds experience in real life way more often.
Which seem more of a stereotype. Having been to graduate school in the sciences, that are normal, smart, and attractive women there like Alex. Ramona is debatable since she did seem more like the stalker type. Of course, there are also women like Leslie Winkle there. More career oriented as well as men hating women who blamed men for the lack of progressive. Yes, they see men only as a mean to achieve a biological urge.
@Shecky Shabazz girls aren't flocking to the guys in the computer lab the way they flock to the ball players, are they?
@@2livenoob "ball players" lol I can tell what click you belong to 😂
Exactly. It reminds people of their depressing reality. I find these unair episodes to be way more accurate.
Weird. Growing up I almost always preferred the nerds over the popular guys. Still do. I just find the nerdy men more relatable and easier to talk to since I like video games, anime, manga, and such. Also fyi. I find the stereotypical nerd look adorable.
Why's the lighting so.. horror-vibe? When you showed the quick cut of the actual set @ 4:37 with the warm, bright, inviting lights, the contrast was unbelievable.
It was probably really cheap and lazy lighting because actual pilots don't typically get air time. Even if they didn't rework the show that much, they would have still had to re-film it.
This actress would make Sheldon look like a serial killer. Nothing funny about him either with her. Penny really softened his character. Balanced him out.
Low budget vs big budget
because its all low quality standard dev, its a black mark for the studio and was tried to be erased. It is literally stated in the first minute and a half of the video.
@@andreicecold4379 “Black mark for the studio” is BS. A lot of studios have to rework/recast a potential show all the time. As a matter of fact, taking a shitty pilot and turning it into one of the most successful tv shows is considered a success, not a black mark...And No studio (movie, tv, or music) erase anything. Everything is stored.
I'm glad we got the version of TBBT we have today. It's one of my favorite shows, if not my favorite.
Even in the final version there was a lot of changes in characters personalities. For example, Penny started off as a stereotype of a really dumb blonde with the only quality of the beauty. But this changed, she become more smart and the "pratical mind" of the group, more like a raw country girl. At first she wasn't able to build Ikea forniture, after a while she were teaching the guys how to go fishing
Ya she’s not genius but she’s simple when often smart peoples biggest problems is overthinking and being self cumbersome thru obstacles they put there
You're not wrong, but fishing and IKEA are completely separate skills.
@@jennifersilves4195 it's about common sense and handywork. You don't need to be a carpenter to assemble an IKEA piece
True for all of them, I think. That’s the writers/showrunners figuring it out too. For example (out of the ones I’ve noticed):
-Bernie-she started off normal voiced; only gradually/later did her voice get very high pitched, especially later to offset the gimmick with Howard’s mom
-Amy initially also wasn’t into physical; she just wanted a fake date/boyfriend to get her overbearing mother off her back
-Stewart. His personality did a compete 360. He was actually very confident and well-to-do
I never saw Penny as the dumb blonde. More like, she was the regular person who was socially smart, showing what regular people see when having to be neighbors with intelligent, but socially inept guys.
Not only is it worth mentioning that Katie movies in while Penny just moves next door, it is also worth mentioning WHY their stories are different. Katie moves in because her mother kicked her out after finding out Katie was having an affair with Katie's mother's boyfriend. No one feels bad for that; Katie deserves what she got. Penny moves door because she's a country girl with big dreams of becoming an actress. When Penny is down on her luck (e.g. working for Cheesecake factory), you do feel bad for her. Therefore, like you said, you root for Penny to get together with Leonard, but you root for Katie to stay away with Leonard. In fact, you would rather wish for Gilda to get together with Leonard instead of Katie, which throws off the premise of the show.
Got to say this Katie sounds way more interesting.
@@DaDunge Right? I am getting some always sunny in Philadelphia vibes from this character and I think I would have liked the show way more this way
Having seen the original pilot, I am glad that both Katie and Gilda were not a part of the final show. I didn't like either of them
I mean it depends on the tone. Her character could work for dark humor, or if she was an idiot asshole who constantly got her due for it like Michael Scott.
@@byronsenior6499 Why would she need to get her due more than the guys who are serious jerks in the series as it became?
I’ve never actually watched Big Bang Theory but this video was *super* interesting. Great job!
you're not missing much tbh
Dude its Scott cramer!
Hey strugler
A WILD SCOTT HAS APPEARED!
Strange, cause I've been watching nothing but your videos lately, and this is the first Nerdstalgic video I've seen in forever lmao
Nothing against the pilot episode actress. She's awesome in her own way.
But Kelly Cuoco defines Penny, such an iconic and memorable role! Her comedic timing was phenomenal. Really love her.
I feel sorry for the pilot actors that got fired from these shows before they even aired only to see their substitute become millionaire stars
you shouldnt they are just not good enough, it's like feeling sorry for a millionaire because one of his businesses failed because another company could do it better or cheaper.
@@shroomiestshroom3655 the protoamy is a good actress and the other one has been just unfortunate with the script
It happens a lot man. And it's not like they got fired, but they didn't exceed the trial period before getting hired. Only thing that is sad is that sometimes they didn't get hired because of the character they played. It had nothing to do with their acting skills. Like a pizza restaurant who hires a pizza guy to make pizzas. But that guy didn't exceed his trial period because by the end of his trial, the company wanted burgers, and not pizzas.
Should’ve had better chemistry with the other actors.
@@adamhawn2523 If the dynamic is flawed, chemistry won't really save it tho
I could NOT imagine this show without Howard and Raj. It feels so incomplete.
While I agree with most of what you said, I feel like this mindset is the reason why we have so few women main characters in ensemble casts. The problem wasn't that there were two women, it's that the writers decided that if there were two women, then they must be in competition with one another.
THIS
In a show about romance, competition is one of the best and easiest ways to get conflict, which drives stories. The problem wasn't competition but the competition didn't make sense and conflicted with the story. By removing a character, they could have the guys compete, though focusing mainly on Leonard.
@@Kenfren It's a show about nerds and the interactions between nerds and non-nerds. Not romance. Most of the episodes (and this pilot) do not pivot around romance, that is a sub-plot. It's barely How I Met Your Mother. Let's say you're right though, isn't it a little suspicious that they removed one of the women characters instead of one of the men characters? Isn't it weird that it contributed to the Big Bang Theory being yet another sitcom with a male dominated cast? It's incredibly naive to ignore how gender plays into these decisions, and to ignore how these decisions effect how genders are treated differently in the industry.
The whole idea that „woman“ is a type of character is insane to me. That’s why so many female characters in media are flat as hell. It’s because their only characteristic is „woman“
Yet, when all of the girls got together the only thing that they talked about half of the time was boys. With the male characters, they were allowed to have discussions about science, movies, computers, electronics, and so forth. When it came to the girls, they dumbed down Bernadette and Amy into man-seeking harpies so that Penny could feel included.
The Sheldon and penny dynamic was amazing because they both had what the other person wanted, Sheldon was the kind caring person who was a best friend and someone who she could always rely on, and penny was the person who got Sheldon out of the his shell even without him knowing
Kind and caring? Sheldon? That's funny.
Sheldon kind and caring? 12 yrs, 279 episodes. Did we watch the same show?
young sheldon showed why sheldon and penny got on well penny is missy
@@SombraPiloto he have penny lots and lots of money and didn’t have her pay him back, he helped Leonard constantly
I've seen the original pilot, and the character of Katie is fundamentally unlikeable. It is also ridiculous that two people would invite a homeless woman they just met to move in with them, and even more ridiculous that she would accept their offer. It is much more plausible that a new neighbour would befriend a couple of nerds in spite of the differences in their education.
Exactly the first had talented actors but really poor plots storyline even if if is fictional it wasn't plausiable
Hahaha that's the plot for Two and a Half Men after Charlie Sheen Left
Yeah the original plot was so like... Porny. Let's just think of the most quick and easy scenario to have a hot girl depend on a guy at his house
Gilda actually reminded me more of Leslie Winkle than Amy
Yeah me too.
yeah same
Yeah that was weird, he even said "they share the same hair-style" while showing different hairstyles... It felt like he was going to make a point about Gilda being the first Leslie Winkle and then suddenly couldn't get the rights to Leslie and just lied and pretended he meant Amy!
I agree Gilda is more like Leslie winkle . Also at
First Amy was more of a female Sheldon. They changed her later.
My biggest criticism of the show is that Sheldon STILL isn't a consistent character. He swings wildly back and forth on his principles from one episode to the next.
Almost like he's human and srsly flawed
@@jensenkansas567 Or like he's poorly written by writers who don't personally understand scientists, nerd subculture, or people with social disabilities.
@@jensenkansas567 I love TBBT, it's one of my favorite shows of all time! But a person can't really be allergic and non-allergic to cats at the same time, not the way Sheldon is. There are A LOT of contradictions to his character.
I still like the show even if it's flawed.
@@atinity6749 I agree. I do like the show. I think the writers try to be funny and relatable with genuine enthusiasm. I also have a lot of respect that you are willing to critique the issues with one of your favorite shows.
I would go so far as to say one of my oldest friendships (a platonic friendship with a girl I've known since middle school) almost feels symbolically represented by the friendship/relationship between Leonard and Penny. She is a fun-loving, strong woman with interests considered traditionally feminine, who has, with time, learned to deeply appreciate me and my eccentricities. She really loves the show and we would often watch it together; In the past she has implied that she understands my interests and that of my friends through the lens of Penny's character. It's wholesome stuff.
Do I think the show is all that well written? No. Do I think Jim Parsons, Kaley Cuoco, and Johnny Galecki hold the it all together? Absolutely. Leonard and Penny have real chemistry.
TBBT will always have a deep and personal place in my heart. A bit of a guilty pleasure, you might say.
@@goopapa4758 Agreed! The writers squandered a real opportunity to teach households throughout America about the difficulties that people on the autism spectrum manage in their daily lives, and even make his more asshole-ish idiosyncrasies more human and forgivable.
There are a lot of moments where he just comes off like a jerk, and we're supposed to just chalk that up to "he's such a nerd, haha!" when instead they could have written in some real vulnerability for his character by acknowledging his difficulties understanding other people's intentions and that he sometimes accidentally hurts other peoples feelings or makes them uncomfortable.
It doesn't have to be super heavy, it just has to be real and wholesome and delicately written. Had they capitalized on the opportunity, Sheldon could have actually stood as a role model for kids with Asperger's everywhere, as a character who learns to communicate with his friends more explicitly so as to overcome his social blind spots.
That's not to say Sheldon doesn't grow at all, he certainly does. But they had room to be way more open about his neurodivergence.
The character dynamic is what made the show, Penny’s personality and Sheldon’s merge greatly for friendship
I thought Gilda was more retooled into a Leslie Winkle, before they decided Amy was a better long-term fit for the cast.
I agree with half of it. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gilda looked a lot like Sarah Gilbert. I think the plan was, for making only one of the roommates into liking women and the the other asexual. I think Sheldon coupling up was a natural progression as Leonard and Penny became a steady couple and treating Sheldon as their adult foster child could only last so long.
I agree, Gilda gives me much more of a Leslie Winkle vibe than Amy.
Yes! Leslie was my first association as well - though it's trough that they totally ripped-off that fashion "style" for Amy. ;)
Are you kidding me? Leslie was a much better character than Amy.
@@DaDunge I never said she wasn't. The producers, however, had a clear preference.
It’s funny that even when they brought Gilda back as Amy three seasons later they still decided to completely change her character later
All the females I think changed over the course of the show, Penny was more natural and actually kinda made sense, Bernadette started as kind of oblivious and innocent and turned into "lol small lady bossy", and Amy started as prude-ish and also oblivious like... kind of a female Sheldon and then she turned more into "I want sex with Sheldon" in a way.. like she became less reserved while still dressing like she was
I don't have any friends because they are ashamed of the videos I upload. Are they really that bad, dear jonas
@@AxxLAfriku cring vidos
@@AxxLAfriku the thumbnails make me not even want to click on them. Sorry dude!
@@BaconNuke Completely right. And after all this I lost interrest for this show kinda. And dont forget how they somehow turned Raje into metrosexual.
It sounds like Proper Penny would have beat up Original Penny for being mean to her boys.
Well in the first season there was an episode with a girl who moves upstairs and penny fight her because she was taking advantage of the boys
Indeed, beat her up for being mean because only she is allowed to be mean. But she is allowed to be mean and manipulative because they're "her" boys and she pretends to be nice to them to get what she wants
The actual penny is just as bad and awful
@@anubisgod23 yup n honestly I don't think kaley's penny could beat up Amanda's version
Penny sponge food on them all the time. Leonard pay her rent . She just was friendly about her mooching lol. Original penny just seem like a bitch
Why do I feel like Gilda is more like Leslie Winkle if she's "meant" to be the Amy character?
The thing is Penny has some similar lines to Katie but the delivery/vibe is different.
From the scenes you showed, Gilda strikes me much more as a Leslie prototype than an Amy
I thought the exact same thing
Never cared for this show but I do kinda respect the writers for being able to make the show better than the pilot
I watched this pilot years ago and it's really strange. I barely finished it. Sheldon authistic personality is more suitable for the character and the dynamic with an insecure Leonard and a naheeve kind hearted Penny works more cohesive for the trio, also the decision to replace the other girl for Howard and Raj and their bromance added more dynamism for the plot, imo. Guilda character wasn't scrapped completely, she was in the beginning portrayed as Shenlon's archinemesis Leslie Winkle and after as his romantic interest (later his wife) Amy.
I'm not really a BBT fan, though nonetheless I found THIS video to be exceedingly insightful and dare a say... useful. I feel more comfortable with being receptive to critique without losing face. good stuff, thank you Nerdstalgic
Based on the 2:00 minute mark "the original penny was a mean lady who was manipulative and angry" .... so basically an ACCURATE depiction of a woman rather than the "sugar and spice" mythos amero-european culture has made them out to be.
@@dowskivisionmagicaloracle8593 you never really recovered from high school, eh ?
I have seen the full original pilot and I had to watch it twice😳 simply because I could not believe how first incredibly bad it was and second how even more grateful I am for what we actually did receive. Oh thank you for stopping this first rendition before it was out there. I have as many millions of others spent many hours enjoying the only version of the Big Bang we will ever need.
This reminds me of a later episode. Where a new neighbour moved in upstairs and manipulated the guys and didn’t care about them. Penny initially felt abandoned by the guys but after talking to Sheldon went back and defended them
Yes, this "dark penny" is a lot like that girl!!
I was thinking the same thing!
Was it the same actress???
@@oldyellerschannel4676 No
@@RK-cj4oc yeah me too
Love your analysis of this great sit com.
Thanks for sharing.
I feel like Gilda was possibly partly the inspiration for Leslie Winkleman, as well as for Amy. And maybe even a little bit for Bernadette.
According to IMBD she was inspiration for both Lesley and Amy.
Why is Raj the only one who ends up without a girlfriend whenever he is by far the most attractive
Because Howard is taken 😂🙈
These guys' attractiveness were the least of their problems. All of the BBT actors were good looking to me, but it seemed so unbelievable the characters ended up in relationships.
I have a theory that he was secretly gay. I can't be the only one that picked up on that, right?
Also, it's a nerd fantasy where the more odd, obnoxious, weak and ugly you are the more hot women will want you. You know, the opposite of reality?!
You know the answer. Why, out of group of 4 unlikable losers, does only the brown guy - the one who wants a relationship the most - end up single?
Amanda Walsh later went on to write nearly 30 episodes of Schitt’s Creek!
WOW! Schitt's Creek is so much more joyful than Big Bang Theory too (though I hear it gets pleasant toward the last season).
Never hear of that show here in holland
Imagine getting cut off , and watching the remaining memembers of the cast getting to be millonairs, especially the girl who replaced you.
I read about Sheldon initially being written as a pervert before but I hadn't heard the rest before. Very interesting. It was my late husband's favorite show. Don't know if I'll ever be able to watch it again without getting emotional but I did make it through this video so that's a start. Other than all the more obvious things I'm more grateful for, I'm glad I got exposed to the show because of him. I probably wouldn't have watched it otherwise
I hope one day you can watch this show again and reminisce on the good memories :) I'm so sorry for your loss.
My sincer condolences to you . Extremely sorry for your loss
Penny has taken advantage of the guys, but she was subtle and sensitive to how they were so naive, which allowed the manipulation look and feel innocent enough.
Meh, she's the worst character of the 7 mains. Still a lot better than Pilot Penny tho 😋
@@benjimain6 Leonard is the worst character for me. Worst actor among all of them too imo.
@@benjimain6 how is she worse than "racial stereotype boy" and "lusty misogynist nerd"
@@FirstnameLastname-gr5kb Howard is fun. Pathetic, but fun to watch. Raj is boring, I'll give you that. However, Penny just annoys me in the setting the show is written. Sure, a non scientist is essential to add, but you talk about stereotypes, I see Penny.
@@lostfigure3703 Not a great fan of the actor (while it being the only one I actually knew before the show came out lol). The character is like fry from futurama for me; not great, but still a key character to tie it together.
as one of the few people on the internet who actually likes TBBT thank you for going 9 minutes without shitting on it and staying objective
I don't really understand why so many people don't like it, I mean, it's pretty great
i also like it! of course i have a problem with some jokes, but i like it a lot overall
I dont know how you can stay objective and *not* shit on it. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to think its a good show. I like a lot of bad shows but I don't pretend they are objectively good.
Thank you, it's kind of sad to see everyone hating on the show when I know I'm not the only one who has a soft spot for it. My brother is autistic and he actually has benefitted from seeing Sheldon's social problems because he can more easily understand how it comes off to other people and be more cognizant of that moving forward. And this video nails it on the chemistry. Say what you want about the show, but the actors play off each other really well.
I think its an internetfad thing, like hating on Nickelback.
@Nerdstalgic Hey, what's the music @6:59 ? It sounds extremely similar to Ik Kudi by Arpit Bala, however that was only released in the year 2023. The intro has astounding resemblance.
As a big fan of the big bang, I'm so glad it turned out the way it did. Can't imagine it being different.
bigbang is blackface for nerds
@@smammam3663 Fucking what? Lmao
@@smammam3663 shut up.
@@yeebler Over and over the show makes jokes about the fact that the characters know science or nerd culture. That is not actually a joke. Just lazy writing.
@@justameeple6012 I watch it with my girl, and I have to admit, I agree with what you said. Part of me likes it because it’s a “turn off your brain and watch while you eat” kind of show. Something you can watch without being engaged whatsoever. But man, the whole “Batman would never date Harley Quinn because Harley Quinn is The Jokers girlfriend” “in issue 345 of Auquaman” “I watch Star Trek” “haha Darth Vader” shtick gets old immediately. It’s like we the viewers are treated as if we’re Penny, and these guys are super nerds for knowing the most basic of stuff about comic books and such. It’s also not just not funny, but actively unfunny. The “jokes” are almost always not even jokes, and if it weren’t for the laugh track or crowd cued to laugh, well, the show wouldn’t exist. Definitely a lazy, slapped together, modern (for when it was coming out) sitcom that tries way too hard to go “haha get it, because we’re nerds”.
Ultimately I’m the sucker though. Because I watch it anyways
As an American show, yes that pilot didn't work. But as an English show i feel it could of. One thing i see in a lot of our English comedies are characters like the original Penny. With good writing, story and ultimately change and growth in her character, i feel would of been good appeal over here. Who knows.
Bro, stop writing 'could of', it's not a thing. Fuck.
*would have
I like Katie but penny works better
What is the advantage of typing of over 've, I've often wondered...
@@Broccoli_Highkicks”Of” is wrong. People use it because they don’t think about what they are saying and that it’s actually the contraction “‘ve” that derives from “could/would/should/must have”. The ‘ve is a removal of “ha” from have, but some people just hear the “ve” and think it is “of”. It’s not.
Good video, but I think Gilda’s character may have been transformed into the “Leslie Winkle” character played by Sara Gilbert in the show (and she shows up in the first season). Of course, this is just based on how you describe the character in this video.
Having seen the unaired pilot, I can confirm that she's much more similar to Leslie Winkle.
mean penny was directed to be that way, but no chemistry for sure. However, the nerd girl was fantastic, and should have stayed. She was excellent in her role and fit the group of nerds like a glove.
I actually think a show like this could have worked if all the main characters were intentionally unlikeable.
Yeah, something like Bojack Horseman: all the main characters starting like horrible and/or broken people and going from that point to trying to become better and healthier than before.
Wait, the cast of Big Bang Theory were meant to be likeable? With the perving on women, cheating and pettiness? I found most of them to be pretty unpleasant. Maybe they git better after I stopped watching.
@@101Mant Oh no, they still are, without a doubt, big assholes. The thing is that the show never treats them like they are horrible people, so they never really change in meaningful ways.
My argument here was that if the show was about them being assholes and suffering the consequences of that in a funny and /or grown up way, it could have been a better show. Probably a dark comedy like Bojack Horseman or something close.
@@101MantIf you objectively look at them, basically all sitcom casts are horrible people. Horrible stuff can make for a good joke. BBT cast isn't particularly bad in this department.
@@frosthammer917 I could never watch the Big Bang theory because of the way it’s frames and the way the cast is so misogynistic and awful, I just get sad
I really wish the show continued another season or 2 and would wrap up Rajs story and Howard finally coming face to face with his dad, etc.
But oh well.
I'll say this: This, to me, explains some of the directions the Penny character took. In later seasons, I've felt like she became more harsh and such, while the opening version is more softer and kindly. I wonder if they may have been working out the version they wanted, in Katie, into the character of Penny, later on in the show.
But that feels organic. You are kinder to people you're just meeting for the first time and as you grow closer to them, you become harsher, since you know what makes them tick. If you're harsh from the beginning, you're just an asshole.
What makes me wonder is how the makers replaced katie with Penny but still wrote such a horrible character like 'Anu' for Raj? And the actress selection is even far worse.
when i was in highschool i unwittingly bought a t-shirt with a reference to the show, without ever seeing the show. people would say weird shit to me when i wore that shirt and i was very confused abt it for a while 💀
Thats funny. I bought a Mystic Warlords of Ka'a t-shirt from a thrift store for a dollar. Just needed an extra shirt that I didn't mind accidentally ruining on a camping trip. I had it on part way through the road trip home and some guy pumping gas near me shouted "enchanted bunny!" I looked behind me and nobody was there so he was definitely talking to me. Looked at him like he was insane, then just kept pumping my gas. He said "Mystic Warlords" and pointed at my shirt.
I looked down at my shirt not knowing what he was talking about and said "oh I think this is some old card game or something. Did you used to play?". He says "yeah, it's from the show Big Bang Theory". We chatted about it for a few minutes. He even offered to pay for my gas if he could have it. I told him "I'm up to about sixty bucks right now. I don't think you want to do that." He offered anyway. haha
I had no idea what it was even though I had seen all the episodes with the game in them. Glad I didn't destroy it out there.
@@heatshield Had you been a fan, the "Enchanted Bunny!" comment would have been a hilarious bonding moment. 😉 It seemed to be a good experience anyway, so I'm happy for you.
I feel so bad for the original actress
Pilots are pretty rough, and often they are pitched as a vehicle for some well known actor. So, the other actors know that this is something they can put on their resume, but no guarantees they’ll be part of the main cast if it gets picked up.
If you saw the first episode of friends with the original Girl playing Ross’s ex wife. You would also be surprised
From what I hear, Kelly Cuoco felt bad for her, and gave her a portion of her check for every episode.
@@phabiorules As nice as that would be there's zero evidence of that ever happening. It's a reality of the acting world where pilots don't always keep the same actors when the show gets picked up. Amanda Walsh went on to have her own career to support herself.
@@kutter_ttl6786 I heard it from a friend I have in the entertainment industry (production, not talent), and if you've made $72 million dollars off of a show, it isn't too far fetched to feel bad for someone who was cast in your role before you.
Gilda and Kathy are literally that meme of the blond girl picking up a book and becoming a brunette
It really is a form of colorism huh?
@@crypticcorgi8280 no it's not.
@@crypticcorgi8280 it’s from a fetish called binbofication
Great advice. Every artist, whether it be writing, painting, music etc, needs to remain open to constructive criticism. The hardest lesson I had to learn as a writer is that every word I put on a page is not gold. Great scenes, no matter how well written, sometimes just don’t work and will need to be scrapped.
I feel like especially in the last few seasons, Penny did kind of start to seem unlikeable, because she acted in much the same way as this alternate Penny. It got to the point where almost every interaction she had with Leonard was some sort of put-down, and same goes for Bernadette and Howard.
I started not only disliking them, but also finding Leonard and Howard kind of pathetic for just tolerating this abuse.
couldn't agree more. It would have been great character development for the guys to stand up to their wives
And the guys were annoying by sexualizing women, like Raj and Howard expressing their unsolicited sexual interest in Penny (especially in season 1).
@Christopher Wiggins That's the problem, many males do just that. Continuing the constant sexualisation and open sexual harassment of characters, such like Howard did to Penny in the first seasons or when Howard and Raj tracked the supermodel house down, in TV shows and series without showing that the perpetrators were given any consequences keeps telling men to think it's okay and it's normal. Sadly, it's normalised. But it's inhuman and disrespectful.
@Christopher Wiggins what the hell are you talking about anyone who makes unsolicited sexual advances towards someone who does not want it is a creep weather is its a guy or a girl
Exaactly
0:10 LIES it’s on TH-cam
And Netflix
And HBO Max
@@michaelbell3612nope
He’s talking about the unreleased pilots you fool
And Netflix in Australia
Raj and Howard were much more critical to the success of the show than the actors were given credit. They deserved equal billing.
I think Gilda might have been a bit of a loss. One thing I feel the show lacked was an acknowledgement that women like comics, scifi and all that too.
Yes! I am a women and I like scifi and comics, and in TBBT I would be a nerd then.. because, smart women don't like this stuff, the only thing I didn't like in the show..
7:45 hey Willy's Wonderland is trending, that's great
My main take away was the creators’ response to the feedback - they took negative feedback and made positive improvements. Seems like everything today has bad story, characters, jokes, etc. But the creators/company don’t care, push out a bad show/movie/comic, and then blame the fans for being toxic and why no one likes their product.
Truth.
Couple corrections: The original theme song was "She Blinded Me With Science", and Chuck Lorre's name is pronounced "Chuck Lori".
Chuck Lorre is a genius. I'm glad that he's also humble and was willing to rework The Big Bang Theory because it's one of my favorite shows.
I had no idea there was an unaired pilot of Big Bang out in the universe! Another great video
Watching the pilot was such a trip. My god, imagine in an alternative universe that was the thing
Its interesting how what turned me down from TBBT was exactly the problem in the pilot. Penny became so mean especially towards Leonard.
hmmm
Honestly pilot Sheldon is unbelievably less obnoxious than the final version.
But he's so much better.
Not caring about a girl's grief and wanting her solely sexually is much worse than not caring because he doesn't understand her socially and thus doesn't want anything to do with her (sexually or socially). I would argue what we got is better than what Sheldon was originally which could have been a nerdy, quieter/creepier version of The Office Season 1 Michael Scott.
@@WaffleEBay12 I mean at least pilot Sheldon didn’t perpetuate and worsen many negative stereotypes and misconceptions about neuroatypical people.
@@MatecaCorp I always loved Sheldon, in many cases for the very same reasons that made him obnoxious to the other characters. I probably wouldn't get along with him in real life, but he expressed a very genuine frustration with "typical" people that I can really relate to--and he got his own spin-off, which is more than can be said for the other characters--which I think means I'm not the only one who resonated with him the way he was written.
@@WaffleEBay12 I agree. I saw the pilot and liked the revised version of Sheldon a lot better.
i love the penny we got instead. she was sweet and even though she is plain and stereotypical (who in that show isn't) she has a personality and it deepens as the seasons go by. i loved sheldon and penny's relationship, it was genuine.
I'd prefer BBT if it fully embraced the culture it's trying to represent. When you watch Dead Pixels or The Guild, the characters speak in a lot of slang and code and only explain it if a 'normie' needs them to. BBT's dialogue about nerd stuff is so explanatory and unnatural, and it's so that it can be universally understood ie so that the audience can be as wide as possible and give them higher ratings/more money. Takes me right out of the show.
Also most of their jokes are making fun of the group over half the cast is apart of, either with demeaning their interests all together, or playing to old stereotypes; like all of them being incompetent and perverted with women. It's obvious they don't actually care about geek culture, it's just a cheap gag
The show never did try to represent nerd culture, it caricaturized it. That in itself isn't a problem, but it still pretends to represent it. Now you have issues like sheldon cooper claiming that carbon nanotubes are twice as strong as steel but only half as heavy, that string theory is M-theory but for laymen, and not knowing whether he wants to get the new xbox or playstation console instead of both. Even if they didn't try to make the show understandable for "normies" or whoever, it still wouldn't work.
Silicon Valley is a good example of a show about nerds where the humor isn't in mocking them or bringing up random pop culture references with a laugh track as support.
the IT crowd is such a glorious example of how to do this right.
@@TheAssirra Yes! How could I forget IT Crowd? I know it's a dying format but I highly recommend people to get the series on DVD. The bonus extras are amazing.
I don’t know if I would’ve called Penny “one of the most iconic television characters” but good video lol
:-? I don't think he was talking about Penny by that point. He said: "... and how one of television's most iconic characters was originally kind of a mess." He was talking about Sheldon there.
When you're paid $1Million per episode, I doubt you care if someone in a youtube comment section thinks your character is "iconic" enough or not
Penny is definitely iconic. Literally all 5 main characters Penny, Sheldon, Raj, Howard and Leonard are iconic. Just look at shows viewership numbers and overall reach. Like it or not...TBBT was a massive success.
sheldon*
Penny is most definitely one of the most iconic television characters
Funny enough, I'm just now almost done watching season 12 of my first run through of TBBT. So happy they decided to rework the pilot and include Raj and Howard in the friend group.