Is This How Coin Dealers Rip People Off? Coin Dealer Gray Area
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ธ.ค. 2022
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When I started buying my coin collection I would buy from banks and credit unions and search for the silver coins. The managers would see me coming and tell me the silver coins are all gone so I would not be dumping the coins I didn’t want back on them because they were paying overtime to have the girls count them. I collected cases of silver coins and only paid face price that was equal to $1.50 per ounce of silver . Then after I collected for many years the silver coins dried up in my area so I visited coin shops and pawn shops and bought the silver coins at scrap price and when COVID hit the coin shop owners told me they were not selling silver coins for scrap prices anymore because the demand was to great for them. Then one day the owner of a coin shop ask me when I was going to sell my silver coin collection and I said I was not collecting silver coins to sell. I’m only collecting silver coins for my grand kids and if he was going to buy coins back it would never be from me because I have money assets that pay me royalties and dividends and interests compounded and my wealth was accumulated over 40 years of back breaking hard labor making iron in a foundry not sitting in a coin shop waiting to take advantage of ignorant people who don’t know the true value of real money made out of silver. After that I retired from working and now I’m a hobbyist who learns how people sell and buy silver coins and it’s criminal!
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How can I get in touch with you 😢
This man is doing his very best to kerp his name clean, educate de rest of us about this subject and in doing so he represents all honest people in these type of business.
You earned my subscription, Sir.
Daniel, our hobby would be much better if we had more people like you. Thank you!
First video of his I've seen and I can tell he has a heart of gold. This is a "grey area" in the mind of 1:1000+ (because it's not grey). The seller assumed zero risk and was happy or he/she wouldn't have sold it. The hobby & the world need more people like him.
@@FrankBoston its not grey its quite clear its a business seller beware
I really appreciate Daniel's straightforwardness.
DEAL IS A DEAL, YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO CALL SOMEONE AND SAY HEY SURPRISE I OWE YOU BLA BLA BLA. THEY CAN DO THE WORK IF THEY WANT FULL VALUE!
I've met honest dealers, and I've met thieves that were posing as coin dealers. Most dealers, and myself included, would tell people up front what I would suggest to them, and I would let them decide. I dealt with all types of customers and most understood when explained to properly. I always explained we are a business and have to make money. Thanks.
You take all the risk and carry all the expenses of a coin shop with employees. You get the rewards if there are any. And, there’s no guarantee you’ll ever sell the coin. The guy who sold it to you, at least he sold it.
Hi Daniel, A great lesson on managing expectations for those new to the hobby. As a accumulator for 50 years, the lesson is equally let the buyer beware as well as the seller in your example. Once a deal is struck, it's final. If a seller sold too cheaply, the money lost should be the cost of the life's lesson. If a dealer gets the reputation of paying the minimum, downgrading every raw coin to base his offer, he would have a poor reputation and a short list of clients. The hobby, "at it's best" is based on fair, equitable deals and the real value is those relationships between dealers and clients built on trust over time.
The most discouraging thing being a new collector is the dealer running to the back and grabbing a stack of problem coins that technically got a grade. I wish there were more dealers that you can trust like Daniel.
Daniel, I am rather new to numismatics and just from watching you and situations you openly talk about, you are one of the very few whose opinion I absolutely value. Thank you man, keep up the good fight!
Thank you am trying to find in your place for your help continue to did good job thank you again
That's all well and good. I'm presuming you're a growing up so learn to talk like one. Stop the cussing. Get a life!
Thanks for your honesty. I think having a clear understanding with the consumer and/dealer should be key in the transaction. Being honest and fair in buying and selling. Both or there to make money and both are there at the risk of not gaining what they thought they should get.
Thanks again for these videos. I’ve been a collector since 86’ and still learn so much from you guys. Take care.
Thank you Daniel, for educating us veterans and new collectors to our wonderful world of coins and currency collecting....
You basically summed up the same things we tell people every day at our shop as well here in NC. We will often tell people when they have nice raw coins either "you should send these off and have them graded and we will pay you accordingly" or "we will buy these and have them graded and settle up with you accordingly." But you're also right, when you're buying very common coins that could be gem unc but one grade means everything, you really can't be nitpicking every coin like that when you're buying and a couple hundred dollars is basically par for the course because at the end of the day it is a business, and we have to make enough profit to keep our doors open.
I have been collecting coins for over a decade now, and learned the hard way (about grading, numismatics, etc.)
Thanx for sharing this online, I'm going to be a more discriminating collector now!
The fact you even have the thought is a credit. Many don’t worry about it.
Hey Daniel there is no gray area.
that's the risk that both dealers and sellers take when dealing with coins and collectibles in other stuff.
That's the name of the game.
One should never feel bad if it's an honest deal.
I've had that happen to me on both ends. I found some good stuff and I've had I've sold some good stuff but that's it that's the name of the game and people need to understand what it is and I thank you for the video because you have explained it very clearly.
thank you
Finding guys like you is a benefit. Last summer I took 20 Ms 64 graded Morgan to a dealer and all he offered was raw avg circ prices. I said I would wait and thanked him for his time.
A deal is a deal! If the coin comes back at a lower grade you’re not going to try and claw money back from the seller! So why should the reverse be different?
That's great information for us collectors. Grading is such a fine line and it gets nerve racking to deal with some people and I agree to send your coins in yourself and you'll know for sure what you have. Thanks
This is my first video of yours I'm seeing and by the end of the video it was a no brainer to go ahead and subscribe.
You bring up some great points and I sincerely admire your honesty. Antique US coins has been an on-going hobby turned [small] side business for me over the last 19 years. I've reached back out a few times over the years where I've bought small collections and they turned out to have a hidden gem in them. It only felt right to give them some more, but I split the markup with them versus handing it all over. Every time they were ecstatic that I came back with more money and I can't recall a single one complained that I should have given them more.
Thanks again for the great vid.
Thank you
Thank you Daniel for another very informative video. I love how you analyze your coins and articulate the atributes and faults, while also maintaining the impact of the holder!! I look forward to your videos! Thank you again!!
A person should never expect to get more money if it comes back graded higher. Would they come back and pay you if it graded lower than expected?? But, I like the way you explained everything! You are being very helpful and giving the person your professional opinion and letting them know their options. I would love to have a coin dealer I could go to like that! Nice video! Thanks
I believe it's incumbent upon the individual to educate one's self and research everything. It's a Hobby, meaning You enjoy it, therefore people tend to understand most aspects if they are just in it for Fun.
Ignorance is ok, but, still not an excuse to stay ignorant.
I took a 22.5 year hiatus from collecting seriously to join the Army. I have however caught up to most new aspects of Numismatics since retirement and feel very confident in my knowledge.
It's thanks to people like You Daniel, Shaun Davidson, and the Q& A folks that my education has allowed me to avoid such pratfalls.
Thank You Sir.
If Y'all don't know, then start watching videos and learning.
EXCELLENT Video, and exactly the truth about everything! Thank you! I am a newbie, and this is exactly the kind of honesty and directness I like to hear!
It's up to the seller to do the due diligence.
There's no reason to call anyone back in those scenarios. Once a deal is sealed it's sealed. I don't give Raw coins a Graded Coin Value in transactions. BU is all you can give it until it's Certified by a Respected Grading Co. If a Customer felt solid about their opinion, I would tell them to bring it back Slabbed as such.
I was going through my coins the other day, I just normally bought silver for stacking. I bought a small gold coin in a PCGS holder marked PF70DCAM, I didn't even know what that meant at the time. I just wanted a piece of gold. Thanks to your videos I have learned so much, thanks Daniel! The coin is a Bicentenial for the U.S. Constitution $5 coin. I paid $325.00 for it.
This dude would likely offer you about $100 for it...maybe.
Steve. So now you’re going to start lying and slamming me in my channel? I am honest and pay melt or more for gold and silver. I pay fair. I don’t down grade coins either. Do not lump me with the few crooks.
@@CoinHELPu Let it go. Steve L sounds like a cynical fellow. Good discussion Daniel!
NGC just gave their graders a raise to I think 15 dollars an hour. So, if you think that a grade is off think about who is grading our coins...
My interest in coin collecting has been reignited after a 50-year hiatus. Yes, I collected when I was a youngster. I recently attended a couple of coin shows and was amazed at how much coin collecting has changed, especially with the new grading system. Coin collection seems to be much more of a business than it was a hobby as I remembered it. Fortunately, I would say the majority of coin dealers have integrity, like yourself. They're in it mostly for the enjoyment, not so much to make large profits.
I just want to express my appreciation for your channel. You cover a lot of great topics that need to be addressed and understood as far as I am concerned. I applaud your efforts to alert us small time collectors of the issues out there. You definitely represent and uphold the motto, caveat emptor. I hope to visit your shop and meet you in the near future.
Thank you.
Thought you wish you had all the coins that you had in your first collection as a kid? I was 10 years old and 70 and I wish somebody had told me about coin roll hunting and the silver coins. If I had kept half the change I had in my pocket I would probably have a ton of silver coins right now! The 1970 the last 90% silver coin was made 6 years ago and they were making the last of the 40% Kennedy halves.
You could say the same about all the major collectible pursuits. Stamps, sports cards, etc. What used to be hobbies mostly done for fun have now become "investment opportunities".
Go try and sell your coins and see how honest dealers are. The ones with integrity are working at Home Depot now.
Thanks for your thoughtful video drop! I'm a part-time "vest pocket" and swap meet dealer, and regularly have people bring me coins they want to sell. If I am not confident in the coin value, I will make what I believe to be a fair offer and suggest that the seller should get several competing offers. Typically they will just accept the offer. The only time I felt a little bit guilty is after having turned in a nice Trime for grading, that I had bought for just under $100. The seller was thrilled with the transaction - but the graded coin came back with a value closer to $1000 than to $100. If I should meet that customer again, I will definitely give him deferential treatment - but I certainly won't just write him a check.
Common or rare, I simply don't see why people are so gullible to pay multiples of premiums on coins that vary slightly in grade. The 1963 quarter Daniel showed prices for in MS66, 66+. 67 and 67+ shows the insanity of price spreads despite the population reports of 737 for a MS66 and 4 for a 67+. And that's just PSCG. NCG probably has additional examples that they graded.
If someone is extremely rich and wants to have the finest known specimen of a particular coin and is willing to pay huge prices, that's his/her choice. Unfortunately, there's way too much greed in this 'game' people play with the grading services and each other. To the 'little guy' who can't afford expensive material and/or who is happy to have decent material of whatever he/she is trying to collect but is not interested in paying huge prices, it has to be frustrating for them to see this taking place as it still at the least indirectly affects the prices/availability of the material he/she collects. I truly believe the grading services have done a disservice to the average collector in regards to the examples of coins Daniel showed on this video clip. My only need for a top rated service such as PCGS or NCG would be for authenticity purposes only. I could care less what they grade it, I would just want to make sure it's genuine. Many people have simply given up on numismatics due to all the gray areas, ambiguities, arguments, etc. Numismatics should be an enjoyable, relaxing, educational and somewhat exciting hobby (thrill of the hunt). It should not be something that causes anxiety and anger because a few people are able to make huge sums of money, such as the first ones able to buy limited products from the US Mint while everyone else is shut out, etc. I am NOT saying that it's wrong to make a profit in this hobby. I'm saying it's wrong when people take advantage of others and that people do not educate themselves to keep from getting taken by others.
In closing, I remember an old episode from the TV show Dennis The Menace. It was titled S01E15 Dennis And The Old Coin. It can be seen on TH-cam at th-cam.com/video/9nunu16JsSw/w-d-xo.html It was the story of Mr. Wilson buying a 1907 $10 Indian gold coin with rolled edges and periods (a rare variety) for $250. This was in 1959. It was kind of hilarious and at the same time showed a proud man brought to shame. I won't say any more. Watch the episode and enjoy it.
To me, I don't see any grey area. Once you have purchased a coin from a customer and you BOTH have agreed on the amount. Thats it. The seller got what they wanted and now you have their coin. What you do with that coin is all your business. If you decide to GAMBLE and resend the coin in that's on you, the buyer. It may come back higher or it may even come back lower. You have no obligation, even moral, in my opinion, to then tell the person who sold it that it came back higher or lower. If you want to be completely fair you could offer to send the coin for resubmission and charge the customer for that. If it comes back higher you then can decide to purchase it for more money. However, from my experience, most people want the money right away and don't want to take that chance.
I agree that the seller should send the coin off himself and have it graded prior to selling it. It takes much of the ambiguity out of the situation. Thanks for a very informative video!
-WeeklyBULLION
Excellent topic, and I can see the gray area. It's kind of interesting, because dealers are supposed to be the experts, but they can't know EVERYTHING, and certainly not necessarily what a coin will grade unless it's just absolutely exceptional. The most obvious examples would be sliders. I've seen some people in a room come to what is considered "consistent" grading by coming in at just a point between them, but that point can mean a lot of money (at least to the seller). But you can't sit there and look at 100 coins from a seller while you're busy dealing with other customers etc. Especially in the coin business, time is money. I think it should be on the seller to do some research and if they don't like what one dealer says, go to the next. I can tell when a dealer is WAY off:
I have had several dealers not realize I know what I'm doing (at least somewhat! lol). They have tried to grade a MS-66 Ike I have from anywhere between MS-62 and MS-64. I think I had ONE dealer say MS-65, but I had several graders look at it at some big shows and call it MS-66 consistently. The price jump isn't hundreds for the coin, but at least $100 I think, which is a big deal to me! Maybe they just don't know any better. Not sure.
I think if I had ANY doubt personally, I'd ask the dealer if he'd either consign it or MAYBE try to broker a deal where I would see if he'd pay me X amount for Y grade and then follow-up and see if he'd pay me slightly more IF it came back higher. But I think that would have to be a VERY special situation.
This also brings up an interesting question: We sellers expect the dealers to pay fair prices, but some of us, myself included, are more than happy to cherrypick their inventory. Now, I've never found anything worth more than $50 or so, but on a $10 coin that's quite a jump, and I expect a dealer to PAY ME fairly. Is it hypocrisy? I'm not sure. I think my conscience wouldn't allow me to find a several hundreds or thousands dollar coin and pay only a fraction of what it's worth. But I don't know.
NO coin dealer is ever going to grade a coin at the "higher" level when the difference is hundreds of dollars unless he is selling. That MS66 coin he is selling is the EXACT same coin he would grade MS64 if buying...And 99% of dealers are the same way.
That is the nature of the business in the buying or selling of ungraded coins. It is subjective. If one thinks the ungaded coin they want to sell is worth more than someone is willing to pay get it professionally graded. The knowledge and advice you provide is priceless. Thank you Daniel.
My thoughts are if you sent it off to be re-graded and it comes back a lower grade are they going to come back and give you some money back? Doubt it, it works both ways. If the dealer puts the time, money and risk into cracking it open and sending it off any potential increase belongs to who took the risk.
It's the same with diamonds -- when they walk in the store (as a Dealer) I have to be open and honest (to keep my reputation) and acknowledge, "Hey, maybe it's 'X' and I could pay for it as though it is, but If it's even a little less than 'X' I would take a huge loss, so I have to offer as though it is only 'Y'."
Don't ever feel bad if you make a couple thousand rather than a couple hundred. It was your coin to gamble on. They didn't have to gamble. They were happy with what you gave them or they wouldn't have sold it to you. You're a rare, good-hearted, businessman. You're taking the risk and deserve every penny of profit you make. Cheers
I just want someone to be honest with me. I've delt with enough cons and liars in life. I just want honesty.
Sounds like fraud to me.
Frank, you sound like a fraud trying to justify ripping someone off tbh.
@@PAS2010D what? no. You agree to sell something that's your agreement. The guy who then re-sells it strikes a better deal bc he owns a store. That's business. You don't get in business to lose money
Kudos for the honesty in this video. I used to buy coins in the 80's, but frankly as the hobby evolved, it became about 200% clear to me that the grading thing makes them completely untenable in terms of their investment value because of the inevitable corruption involved in the grading process. These so-called "independent" grading services are a 100% joke, and anyone who thinks they are legit is just naive. As the hobby declined in the last 40 years, the coin "market" devolved badly for me as the one thing you could depend on 100% was that any changes would be to the detriment of the collector. I still own a few rare coins that were graded by major auction houses (Bowers and Merena mainly), but over the years, the one thing that I knew for certain is that their stated grade would decline over time. All this nonsense about MS-65, 66, 66+ (probably the biggest joke of all) 67, etc. was UNQUESTIONABLY intended to fool less experienced collectors into thinking that the grading services were the objective way of handling coins. Even today, different grading services = different grades, so by definition there is no objectivity involved. The other thing that is so bothersome is that this high level grading crap tries to fleece people into thinking that coins minted in the last 50 years can be "rare" based on their grade. I would be surprised if the coin collecting market doesn't collapse in the next generation, but then again, P. T. Barnum's phrase ("there's a sucker born every minute")might keep it alive for some time.
The coin collector market is struggling because there are so many other things people can collect, or do with their funds. You can collect diecast models of any type, figurines, running shoes, watches, video games, comic books, movie memorabilia, and on and on. And people are using physical money less and less. Lastly, ever since silver was dropped from coinage, much of what has been minted is bland.
If I going to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a piece of metal, I’m buying a gun, and not a coin. At least the gun has some utility.
Thank you for your honesty. Your really helped me out as I’m about ready to head off to a coin dealer myself.
I asked a similar question in 1 of my videos: "If I find or buy a better, semi key or key date coin from the junk bin, am I obligated to tell the seller?" Example: I bought these Morgan's in a $38 junk bin; 1890, 1892 and a 1903. I didn't pay attention to the mint marks until I got home, as I was just having fun filling a Dansco year only set of Morgan's. When I got home, the 1890 & 1892 were both CC's and the 1903 was the O. Should I have contacted that LCS and payed more? They even said, "No key dates are in the bins", while I was looking thru them.
I can give you a more comprehensive answer after you send those Morgans to me for evaluation. 🙃
I wish you were in my area, Daniel, because you'd be getting all my business!
The coin dealers in my area would offer you "X" for whatever you're selling. You might get a bit more if you haggle. If you don't like the price, they say "Oh well"
As for them sending off coins to get graded and they get lucky with a good coin, they would never get ahold of you to give you money back. They would consider it more profits for themselves. So, for you to be this honest is very rare and you deserve some 👍👍👍
Thanks for sharing. 😀
Once I pay for a coin it’s my win or loss not the seller.
As long as both seller and buyer have the knowledge and agreed
Honesty is the best policy 🌼
Most people don't understand the costs of running any small business.
If you go to a dealer of anything, you have to expect they will only pay an amount for your item that ensures they make a profit. No, I would never expect a call back if they did well with my item. That's ridiculous. The only exception would be if we made an arrangement stipulating compensation for an unexpected higher profit margin.
enjoyed the video. most people don't understand what's involved in running a coin or jewelry store, the overhead, the inventory, the risks and costs can be huge. Personally, I like it when customers demand above retail for their coins because they saw it listed for some crazy price in some chat room...
I get the where do morals end and business start, but I feel like you have an honest conversation with a customer and if they agree to sell an item for a certain price thats it, IF that coin turns out to be worth 10X or 100X what they thought thats the dealers good luck and the customer isnt owed anything...You dont ask to buy stuff people go to YOU to sell you stuff...thats just business as you know more than I you win some you lose some...but thats not on the customer its on you so likewise if a coin is worth less than you paid do you think the customer will come back to give you more money? lol so there's your answer...YOU as the dealer do NOT have a moral obligation to inform every customer about every item they want to sell, if someone goes to a car dealership and wants to sell their $20,000 used sports car for $10k do you think the salesman is going to try to talk them out of it? hell no lol...You can be nice and you can be generous but you cant go out of business doing so, I worked for a guy who ran a hot dog cart, he went out of business becasue he was TOO generous and gave half the food away so he never mad a profit...
Absolutely on all points. If you are dealing with a shop, you are at their mercy, their capital, their rent, their light bill, their expertise and time--take these things into account in your dealings and you should be ok if you deal with reputable well-regarding shops. If you want to wring top dollar out of any collectible or commodity, get rid of the middleman and merchant it yourself.
I have never seen a coin dealer offer even close to a fair price, even on key dates. They try to low ball you every single time. I appreciate you being honest.
Then you have dealt with enough coin dealers, I know many who do
For me it's fairly simple. The moral position of the expert buyer is to provide enough information for the seller to come to an informed decision on whether or not to sell.
As you mentioned. I firmly believe that if a person expects to get paid according to what they think a Coin could grade at a high MS. Then they should send it off for grading. I'm they want to sell it as a raw Coin to a dealer then they should expect to receive a fair amount, less. Because of the time, expense and uncertainty involved in grading. Then if the Coin eventually grades much higher than expected, then I feel like the dealer should consider contacting the original seller about the grading results, according to his/her moral values and come to terms with the original seller as a fair amount to divide, once the Coin has sold. As it will allow the dealer to negotiate a better price for the final buyer.
The key point is that of the Coin dealers, morals and honesty and what makes them the type of business personality that they want to place on themselves.
When I started my own business in construction and remodeling, an elderly friend of mine of over 50 years experience in the same field. Gave me what I feel is the most important piece of advice that I still hold of high regard to this day.
"If you do good work at a fair price then the customer may tell a few people. But if you over price and do crappie work, then they'll tell everyone they see. Word of mouth is your best advertisement. It doesn't cost anything and will always be remembered and expanded on throughout the community. This is a known fact and possibly the most important factor in my business growth within the first year. I went from a possibility of consideration, to having to turn away numerous jobs that I just simply had no time for. And yet many were willing to wait for months, because they rather that I did the work.
Been there. Word of mouth is the best advertising of all.
I send coins to PCGS and I am surprised each time they come back…..details grade on some yet I did get a DMPL back……I learn each time I receive them back…..it’s a hobby for me and I enjoy it very much…..your videos have helped me so much….please keep up the good work and know you can’t please everyone.
If you are buying coins that you know will grade high, you make the fair offer up front. If they grade higher than expected, bonus, BUT if they grade lower, do you ask the customer for some money back?
On the flip side, if you are intentionally offering ridiculously low to inflate later, or to stack for personal reasons, you won’t be in business for long.
In the end, who ever has the silver, wins in the deal.
You take on risk the moment you buy any coin, and then you can put in the added risk and investment of getting them graded... then you sell them. All of that takes time, energy, and expertise. It's not ripping people off, it's a good and honest business. Thank you for your discussion on this topic, I think you highlight an area where the discerning buyer can aquire a coin worth transporting to the top one or two grading companies and instead of fumbling with bubble bees - sell to you a coin worth more than before.
You bought it as graded, that's fair. The seller always has the option to re-grade it before selling.
Oh wow I just found your channel because I've been getting into coin collecting and you said your from Portsmouth Ohio. That's so cool I live in Lucasville. 😁
Wow thank you very much for this video! 🙏 new subscriber, and I'm jumping on your website now to make a purchase because you're worth supporting. The world needs more honest dealers. I went to my first coin show this weekend and someone tried to sell me a fake. I said let's put it on a sigma and if it's real I'll buy it... it didn't even register 🙃
Thank you for a great informative video. You appear to be genuine and honest Thank you for that
You sound really like a very honest and God-fearing man I think I’m looking at going to look forward to doing business with you. Thank you for your kind consideration, your honesty is to be commended.
If you're happy with the deal and the seller is happy with what they got that should be the end of the transaction. I see nothing wrong with doing business that way. The seller should have an idea of what they want or need to get out of the transaction and have a general idea of what it might be worth. I watch all of your videos and have purchased a few things from your website and have been totally satisfied
Exactly
Same thing can be said about finding a deal at a yard sell for $5 and finding out later it’s worth 100 times that. It’s up to seller to do their research if they want reasonable value for their item.
Exactly
I went to a yard sale 2 or 3 years ago in Minnesota and there's this guy he had these old quarters. I looked them over and I went back to the car and did a quick rifling through the red book (I had in my car with me). He wanted way, way more than what they were worth
That was a great video! I have submitted 8 coins twice to PCGS. The first time 50% of them were graded 'damaged,' 'cleaned,' or some sort of 'ding,' so to speak. The second time, I only had one that came back 'cleaned.' On the second run, I had a few that I was really pleased with the grades. So, perhaps I am getting better. I pretty much stopped buying ungraded coins on Ebay to be submitted by me later. I have bought so many coins that in some cases I may be unsure as to which dealer I bought them from, but for the most part I can identify my purchase through my e-mail history. So, there are certain dealers with which I was pleased on Ebay, but I still felt that some of them sold me coins that came back 'cleaned.' And, there are certain caveats or statements the dealers make that basically absolve them from the responsibility of selling coins later found to be 'cleaned.' And, I have seen videos of reputable coin dealers in shops that disagree with 'cleaned' designations. And, there is substantial cost in submitting coins to be graded (short version there). So, in the future, if I sell some of my non-graded coins, I will try to let the buyers know that some may come back 'cleaned,' since I have already seen that to be the case from that which I bought and submitted. So, after all the cost, I feel no need to back-compensate others. It is a risky enterprise (buying ungraded to get graded) and people who hope to get a price for a coin based on their subjective assessment and prediction of the grade are already a bit naieve. So, anyway, those are my thoughts. I really enjoy your channel!
....naive...
It really comes down to the spirit behind the purchase and the sell, so there are several things at play here. First, if you, as the buyer, make the deal paying the lower price, because you think that is the grade it will most likely get, then no matter the final grade, you don't owe them anything more, because you dealt with them honestly. If you get the higher grade payout, figure it was good karma payback time for you. Don't forget all the coins that you paid the lower amount and it graded at that lower amount, or the coins that came back at a loss as cleaned, or a lower grade than you expected. Now, if you meet up with the person again, I think it is appropriate to throw them some bonus money or a wholesale price on something out of generousity. But it doesn't need to be a big share - remember, you took all the risk- you put trust in them to have sold you a gradeable coin, and put the money and time into getting it graded, when it could have come back cleaned or graded at a loss. The seller should not feel they are due any share of the extra profit, and appreciate any that you might choose to pass along. They should feel happy for you, and comforted in the fact that it got the grade they thought it could have - and maybe they learn a lesson from the sell.
Which leads to my second point - NO ONE should ever expect YOU to pay the price as if its graded when its not- that's living in fantasy land. They should be willing to sell based on the most likely lower grade - and feel lucky to have gotten that much - or they need to put their money where their mouth is and get it graded before they try and sell it to someone like it is. If they are so confident it will grade that, and give a buyer a hard time for not agreeing- but haven't taken the time to send it in themselves? There is something fundamentaly wrong with someone doing that- it's a shady salesman tactic that pressures the buyer by questioning their knowledge - and ability to appraise the item - when really it is the seller that is showing their lack of understanding of the uncertainty in grading, or their lack of confidence in the coin to grade at the level they want you to pay them for.
Then there are the buyers that low ball someone intentially by acting as if it doesn't have a chance to grade high when they think it will actually grade at the higher level - they are crooks in my mind. Especially when they pressure the seller to sell at the lower price by questioning thier knowledge, or taking advantage of the persons need to sell by making them worry that no one else will buy the coin at all besides them. Why would they buy a coin if its worthless to everyone else? Answer - they wouldn't - they are lying, and don't deserve a sellers business.
Conclusion: If you are trying to deal honestly with a seller, and they are trying to get a reasonable deal that takes the fact that the coin isn't yet graded into consideration, then you are living in the light, and can get a good nights sleep :)
As a collector, it is normally good advice to "know your craft" and value of what you have. That being said, it is sometimes necessary to defer to a "professional" to determine the points that make the item valuable or limit it's value. This is what we do when sending items off to be graded for example; the people grading them are human and imho using their discretion within parameters. Remembering that dealers are also in the business of investment and not losing money. If the seller agrees to the deal, it is not the seller's job to upgrade the sale after the fact.
An honest dealership is self - explanatory and never goes out of style
if I sell a item, and later find out they sold it for more money, Great for them, I knew what I accepted when I sold it, and so should not be complaining later, if the price is too low, Don"t sell It. Great Video
I understand your dilemma
No one was forced to make a deal. So good for you if you come out ahead.
great video Daniel thank you for the information 👍👍👍
Just to add, I learned quite a bit from watching your videos your doing a great job and I appreciate it! Thanks
Thanks Daniel. Honor and integrity is important with your LCS. eBay not so much.
Hello, I agree if it’s a high profile deal and you know what the probability is in a way. As a small business owner, customers aren’t aware of all the extra work you have to do. For them they walk in your store, talk to you for a few minutes and are out there for with a lot more cash than they had when they came in. I think your good and you deserve every bit of money you earn man!
Thank you, you are right, I have a coin I believe is quit valuable, I was not sure what to do. I think I will send my coin myself. This is a gray area. My tbing is who can you trust.
Great video. Interesting. Your right, it goes both ways. Keep the profit.
I would say if you buy a roll of coins and there is a "gem" in there, you are under no obligation to give more $$ to seller. On the other hand, if you talk someone down and then find out they were right, it would be nice to offer a little more. People are in desperate times and everything helps.
Can't wait to watch all of this
As I climb the economic ladder, I know relationships are what make the most money. But that's networking. Coin shops, many customers are one-and-done. So if it's a regular customer, yes, you want to solidly that relationship. If not, make that profit. Their loss for not doing their due diligence.
Well said appreciate your support
Exactly why I buy coins I want already graded. Glad to find you, I’m about an hour away from me. I need to come down and stop in!
Away from you l, sorry
Daniel, I'm perfectly OK when you are taking the risk, that you get the reward. Some of the grading price jumps are so severe that folks should seriously considering sending them off for grading, but if the coins are under $100 in value, it's kind of pricey to have everything graded. Keep up the good work and don't feel bad for making a profit.
been in the coin biz for years. I won't send a coin off unless it's worth at least $300.
Thanks for the common sense advice. I have several coins I am meaning to send out for grading. I have my own opinion on what I think they will grade at. I can't wait to see what the pro's grade them. Even if I don't agree with the grade a coin receives I get the experience of what the differences between my opinion and the actual grade the coin received. I've never sent a coin out for grading. I buy coins on how I personally like them. I've seen graded coins with high grades that I don't agree with, and just wouldn't buy. Crazy as it may sound I like collecting scratched coins that are otherwise beautiful. I can get a coin I otherwise could never afford.
The only reason some go into this line of work is is to sit back and relax. I’ll just sell privately but on occasion see what lcs shops have.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Never feel you should have to say something after the transaction.
I agree with everything you said. Thank you.
I think you are very on point here. There is such a fine line between the values. You're doing you due diligence when someone comes to you. That's the best you can do. If a hundred or two is gained after you grade the coin then so be it. If its a million dollar coin and you low ball the seller then that's unscrupulous.
You’re exactly right. I agree with everything you said.
The 2022 PF70 Silver Eagle (NGC) sells for about $200.00 I looked at the resell market (2016-2017) and it was selling for over $500.00. Good investment.
As you should be rewarded! It amazes me that when people profit off of anything, but if you have knowledge of coins and metals you are ripping people off...makes no sense.
If you take the risk you need to accept the gains or loses. Just be fair and you should not have doubts. I also think as an option - if in real doubt the coin is VERY NICE then split the cost of grading with the seller (subtracted from the currently agreed sale price) and if it comes in higher they could get a bonus based on grade. This could only be on very special occasions and limited to when both parties have doubts.
I wouldn't expect any dealer to give me any more money if I sold them rolls of Quarters for example & the dealer then cherry picked out the gems for grading....I should have done that
I agree that is a grey area and if someone makes a little extra than was paid for when after grading then power to them they made the extra effort in the first place. Personally i buy raw coins from dealers or collectors, also i buy coins already graded if that what im looking for. Thanks for covering this subject in this video.
I like the ads that call the coin: proof,gem,BU, all in the one title lol
Daniel as a super honest guy like you, I'm sure that the way you pay up for coins I'm sure you have lost a lot of money trying to do the right thing by people. Just those rare gold coins you bought you paid more than fair prices on and that was a big hit. I'm sure that some people do it of course
If it were to be a significant difference in value I’d like to think people would give a little back. But coin dealers are dealing with soo many people daily and I can see that getting complicated. That’s a good topic.
I agree with you people should grade their own coins it takes a good person to be a good coin dealer I feel you’re a good person 👍
I would like to thank you for all your hard work and knowledge I had a medical scan in Nashville I have a mint 64 accented hair kennedy half I stopped in Brentwood TN @ a coin dealer they offered me $10.00 I have many more mint coins. Since I have a medical condition I have pulled out some of of coins I have not looked @ in a long time.
I know nothing about coins but I have learned a lot from you and your channel. Keep posting these great videos! When I get ready to sell my collections I will make the trip to see you Thanks Jef Davis
I appreciate it and although I would offer around $40 for your accented hair, I don't buy ungraded mint errors. Thanks
As a coin dealer myself, I find it so refreshing to hear a sane person discussing the reality of what we deal with when purchasing coins from the public.
What you discuss is a difficult area. It’s buyer beware. This is why I don’t buy raw coins. Even so valuations can vary. Thanks for the vid!
I don't see anything underhanded in these case scenarios, as you have described them, Daniel. The key is in giving your honest assessment of a given coin being offered to you by a customer - which I'm sure you give 100% of the time.
Thank you for the information.
Thank you for your honesty