Totally agree with the third act thing it always makes me rate a book lower!! Another trope I hate is the pregnancy in the epilogue especially when an author always pulls that, having a baby does not mean happy ever after and not everyone wants a baby let’s please stop that 😫
Yes! The third act breakup.... I started to become hesitant on Christina Lauren books because I found that all of their books had some sort of 3rd act breakup and it started to get really predictable. We also know that they aren't going to stay broken up... so its like like "okay... blah blah blah... get to the makeup already." Its why I have been liking Tessa Bailey's books lately... she has conflict, but its not that really frustrating overkill conflict.
The evil ex is my least favorite trope in any form of media. It's lazy and immature. I understand that sometimes relationships end because the other person was terrible. But some relationships do end amicably, and there's no need to paint the other person as a villain just to build up the focused couple.
I feel like all city girl in country portrayals always have her being a socialite or at least frivolous, which, as someone who lives in a city, I've never even encountered IRL.
Oh gosh everything you said about the 3rd act breakup is exactly how I feel!!! Why is it in every book? I say this all the time. I so badly want external conflict rather than internal conflict!! It’s why I like series romance more because you get to see the couple actual tackle problems together.
I agree with all of these. Yes, on the “omg s/he doesn’t like me” when it’s *so obvious* that the person does is a trope I can’t stand as well. Obtuseness to the point of ridiculousness is annoying. I’m currently reading The Love Hypothesis and there’s a lot of that. It’s so obvious they like each other, use your words! One that I’ve got tired of because it’s in practically all romance books is Babies Ever After. Does it have to be in every romance book? I’m so shocked when it doesn’t happen and there’s not some cutesy epilogue where a fmc finds out she’s pregnant or there’s a time jump and there are kids running around. I get it, most people want kids (I want kids in fact), but why does it have to be in practically all of them? At this point I’m shocked when a book doesn’t end with Babies Ever After. It’s a slap in the face to infertile readers or to readers who just don’t want kids. You can leave it up to the reader. A trope or style choice I’m not a big fan of is too much perfection. I get that romance is fantasy, and readers want to imagine they’ll end up with the most good looking, the richest and the most successful people but my God, my kingdom for a romance with normal people, who are just a bit average. Or where a character is not the hottest person to ever walk the earth, but they’re attractive to the main character specifically, or attraction grows after they get to know each other. He can’t just be fit, he has to have a six pack and be the tallest of the tall. He’s not just rich, he’s a billionaire. I don’t like the third act break-up/conflict either. It sort of has to be there or the book will be accused of being a bit boring, but when I know there’s going to be a HEA it feels like a waste of time. I still love romance though 😂
LOL 100% agree with you on the trope where the protagonist is *so shocked* their love interest likes them back. Ugh! Honestly a lot of this video in general reminded me why a lot of romance books fall flat for me hahahaha
Third act breakup, surprise pregnancy, epilogues where everyone is having babies (especially in companion series), and jealousy (especially if they have an ex they still talk to).
Omg yessss. Glamorous City girl/ Rugged Country boy is my dream, but authors always seem to mistake rugged/ for Rude asshole. What I really want is a Rough around the edges and loveable. 🥺
Sam, I think it's because you're reading a lot of traditionally published romances, cuz I read a lot of indies and most of them (the ones I read) don't have a third act break up. You should try Jamie Bennett and Cate C. Wells.
Not sure if it has been suggested before, I would recommend 'it happened one summer' for city girl moves to small town trope. I think you would like it!
Here's one I don't like: "secret relationship" Because it ALWAYS comes to a head when one of them wants to come clean but the 2nd one goes "nah." Like they're embarrassed to be with the first person.
I hate tiny girl/huge guy where the size difference is constantly harped on. This is one reason I wasn’t such a fan of The Hating Game. I also love that we’re getting a lot of diverse body sizes for women but I feel like the love interests in those are still always like supermodel hot so I would like to see male body inclusiveness as well!
I think the BET PLOT : would be better if the person that was challenged told the other person from the begging and they decide to split whatever they win of it so it could be kind of fake dating but also a subversion if the BET TROPE!
@@ThoughtsOnTomes i can already imagine the story : A first years student in college is challenged to try and date the most handsome senior in the whole program. Instead of hiding this fact from the other person the student makes them an offer to date them for some mouths so they can divide the 20 grand prize, it’s purely business… Or is it ?
Indie romances are the place to go for less formulaic, not always the third act, predictable, conflict and breakup. You still have to hunt for authors, but they’re there. And I love it. And I completely agree, you can easily have conflict without a breakup.
the hunt for good authors is what makes me hesitant! it's really hard for me to find reviewers who feel similar to me about romance writing etc so the ones I've tried haven't been a good fit for me even though they are raved about
I always tell people if they start feeling this way, they gotta check out indie romance! It's really traditionally published romances that follow this third act breakup formula to a T (I'm looking at you, Christina Lauren).
The one that drives me crazy is when one part of the pairing is pretty much a doormat for the other to walk all over. Usually they have been head over heels in love with the other person for years, but never gotten the courage to say out loud their feelings. They're best friends or have been in each others lives for a long time when the story starts. And they do anything for the other person, while the other treats them badly, mainly because the other just takes the behavior. And all I keep thinking is why are we rooting for a pairing, where one half is a selfish, self centered, and thoughtless brat who tends to use and mistreat the other because they never stand up for themselves. Not in a cruel way, but they think that behavior is ok because no one calls them out before. Plus your thinking with the doormat, where is your self respect and that the relationship is so unhealthy unbalanced.
I agree I hate the I’m gonna be mean first trope. Also I think this is why I’m not keen on enemies to lovers. I’m ok with competitors to lovers or dislike to lovers but I hate the hate. Lol. I also don’t like triangles. They give me too much anxiety. Have you tried Penny Reid? I liked her two novellas Kissing Tolstoy is one I really liked and it was nice and short a sampler. Also Neanderthal seeks Human. I remember enjoying
Re: third act breakup. I also just feel like it sets a kind of toxic expectation (yes I am aware romance books aren't necessarily supposed to be realistic but STILL) that for a relationship to work it has to be 100% harmonious all the time because conflict = breakup. Like, imagine just like, resolving conflict without breaking up???? Like I have an anxious attachment style and I used to genuinely believe that whenever someone would get mad at me for something I did it would mean the end of that relationship forever (whether platonic and romantic) and it would make me not set boundaries in order to avoid conflict. I feel like a lot of people end up in toxic relationships that way and I'm not saying that's romance fiction's fault, it definitely isn't, BUT it would also be nice to have books NOT reinfoce that anxiety, you know?
2:11 “A relationship built through phone or text” Oh hey, it’s Sleepless in Seattle (1993 film)! One trope I discovered that I don’t like is when the male love interest talks down to his female partner and treats them like a child. I think there’s a difference between having a childish personality, and being capable of looking after yourself and taking responsibility. If you want to dote on your love-interest, male or female, because they’re small, cute, and/or innocent, that’s fine, but I don’t think that means becoming essentially their parent and doing EVERYTHING for them and taking over most aspects in their lives. From there, the relationship becomes very controlling at that point, and very one-sided since only one partner is putting in all the effort.
yep, i find the third act break up trope super tedious and was actually what stopped me from reading romance back in 2014/2016 ish and i just got back into romance and now there are books!! without that breakup!!!! i get why its there but i much prefer them arguing in the third act rather than them breaking up bc it always feels like its going from 1 to 100 strangely i tend not to enjoy time skips in romances (especially in friends to lovers) where it jumps back from present day to them in the past. i always find myself caring way more about them in present day and wanting to read that storyline more. maybe i just havent read a really good one yet!
Yes I hate the 3rd act breakup sooooooo much! I recently found an author who doesn’t do them and I am currently going through her backlist. Onley James!
The third-act breakup seems to be an offshoot of the dragged out "Will They Won't They" stuff plus the romantic version of the third act falling out between friends that shows up a lot particularly in American animated films for kids.
I think you might enjoy some of Nora Roberts urban fantasy/romance books. Yes they are formulaic but they actually have decent plots involving the fantasy/supernatural portion and the conflicts for the couple come from internal and external places. The Three Witches trilogy from her is great and there are witches
I really hate accidental pregnancy and surprise baby. I personally really love epistolary tropes but I feel it works best in historicals for me and I only want it to be a part of the beginning. I hate when we're 70% in and they still haven't met in person. As far as 3rd act conflicts, Sarina Bowen actually does a really good job of having them resolved quickly because the characters will actually comminicate with each other. Like one character will be upset for an hour, cool off, and then talk things through
I am very specific with what I like in my romances. But I really hate the big breakup too. A lot of people don't ever actually break up over some of the things the couples in these books do. They do have a big fight. I wish their was more of a big fight. If your go to is to break up with someone over any fight...yikes
I hate hidden identity plots in romance - particularly as the break-up then usually occurs after the couple have had sex for the first time because one person has found out the other person isn't who they said they were, and there are a whole bunch of consent issues there we just don't need.
The third act breakup is so obnoxious in the majority of books. Christina Lauren's books are typically 4 stars until that point then the rating tanks. One of the reasons Mariana Zapata works so well is her books don't have that.
I understand why the trope where “omg she/he/they doesn’t like me” when it’s so obvious that the person does" is annoying. I also understand it, because when people's love languages dont match very well or when some people are more action based than word based, people get confused.
Wonderful video, Sam! The third act breakup is SO ANNOYING. It just feels forced most of the time?? Also, I’ve noticed that I’m not a fan of romance novels where each person in the romance has a perspective. I feel like it takes away the tension from the story (most of the time), and I like feeling uncertain or flustered along with the main character. It was one of the reasons why I wasn’t a fan of The Kiss Quotient.
Totally agree with the third act thing it always makes me rate a book lower!! Another trope I hate is the pregnancy in the epilogue especially when an author always pulls that, having a baby does not mean happy ever after and not everyone wants a baby let’s please stop that 😫
Yes! The third act breakup.... I started to become hesitant on Christina Lauren books because I found that all of their books had some sort of 3rd act breakup and it started to get really predictable. We also know that they aren't going to stay broken up... so its like like "okay... blah blah blah... get to the makeup already." Its why I have been liking Tessa Bailey's books lately... she has conflict, but its not that really frustrating overkill conflict.
The evil ex is my least favorite trope in any form of media. It's lazy and immature. I understand that sometimes relationships end because the other person was terrible. But some relationships do end amicably, and there's no need to paint the other person as a villain just to build up the focused couple.
So many stories have the evil ex, definitely agree with you here. It’s lazy and it often feels that it’s a way to create conflict in the story!
I feel like all city girl in country portrayals always have her being a socialite or at least frivolous, which, as someone who lives in a city, I've never even encountered IRL.
yes exactly!
Oh gosh everything you said about the 3rd act breakup is exactly how I feel!!! Why is it in every book? I say this all the time. I so badly want external conflict rather than internal conflict!! It’s why I like series romance more because you get to see the couple actual tackle problems together.
I agree with all of these. Yes, on the “omg s/he doesn’t like me” when it’s *so obvious* that the person does is a trope I can’t stand as well. Obtuseness to the point of ridiculousness is annoying. I’m currently reading The Love Hypothesis and there’s a lot of that. It’s so obvious they like each other, use your words!
One that I’ve got tired of because it’s in practically all romance books is Babies Ever After. Does it have to be in every romance book? I’m so shocked when it doesn’t happen and there’s not some cutesy epilogue where a fmc finds out she’s pregnant or there’s a time jump and there are kids running around. I get it, most people want kids (I want kids in fact), but why does it have to be in practically all of them? At this point I’m shocked when a book doesn’t end with Babies Ever After. It’s a slap in the face to infertile readers or to readers who just don’t want kids. You can leave it up to the reader.
A trope or style choice I’m not a big fan of is too much perfection. I get that romance is fantasy, and readers want to imagine they’ll end up with the most good looking, the richest and the most successful people but my God, my kingdom for a romance with normal people, who are just a bit average. Or where a character is not the hottest person to ever walk the earth, but they’re attractive to the main character specifically, or attraction grows after they get to know each other. He can’t just be fit, he has to have a six pack and be the tallest of the tall. He’s not just rich, he’s a billionaire.
I don’t like the third act break-up/conflict either. It sort of has to be there or the book will be accused of being a bit boring, but when I know there’s going to be a HEA it feels like a waste of time.
I still love romance though 😂
LOL 100% agree with you on the trope where the protagonist is *so shocked* their love interest likes them back. Ugh! Honestly a lot of this video in general reminded me why a lot of romance books fall flat for me hahahaha
Yes the oblivious to obvious love is so annoying. 🙄
Third act breakup, surprise pregnancy, epilogues where everyone is having babies (especially in companion series), and jealousy (especially if they have an ex they still talk to).
Omg yessss. Glamorous City girl/ Rugged Country boy is my dream, but authors always seem to mistake rugged/ for Rude asshole. What I really want is a Rough around the edges and loveable. 🥺
Same
Sam, I think it's because you're reading a lot of traditionally published romances, cuz I read a lot of indies and most of them (the ones I read) don't have a third act break up.
You should try Jamie Bennett and Cate C. Wells.
really?! that's an interesting difference.
Not sure if it has been suggested before, I would recommend 'it happened one summer' for city girl moves to small town trope. I think you would like it!
I don’t even read romance, I’m just here to listen to your point-on opinions and give you those clicks.
Here's one I don't like: "secret relationship"
Because it ALWAYS comes to a head when one of them wants to come clean but the 2nd one goes "nah." Like they're embarrassed to be with the first person.
I hate tiny girl/huge guy where the size difference is constantly harped on. This is one reason I wasn’t such a fan of The Hating Game. I also love that we’re getting a lot of diverse body sizes for women but I feel like the love interests in those are still always like supermodel hot so I would like to see male body inclusiveness as well!
yesss that was one of the tropes in my first video on this topic and that's the book I used as an example LOL
I think the BET PLOT : would be better if the person that was challenged told the other person from the begging and they decide to split whatever they win of it so it could be kind of fake dating but also a subversion if the BET TROPE!
ooh love that!
@@ThoughtsOnTomes i can already imagine the story : A first years student in college is challenged to try and date the most handsome senior in the whole program. Instead of hiding this fact from the other person the student makes them an offer to date them for some mouths so they can divide the 20 grand prize, it’s purely business… Or is it ?
Indie romances are the place to go for less formulaic, not always the third act, predictable, conflict and breakup. You still have to hunt for authors, but they’re there. And I love it. And I completely agree, you can easily have conflict without a breakup.
the hunt for good authors is what makes me hesitant! it's really hard for me to find reviewers who feel similar to me about romance writing etc so the ones I've tried haven't been a good fit for me even though they are raved about
This happens in Lady Midnight it drives me mad but CC does it along
I always tell people if they start feeling this way, they gotta check out indie romance! It's really traditionally published romances that follow this third act breakup formula to a T (I'm looking at you, Christina Lauren).
The one that drives me crazy is when one part of the pairing is pretty much a doormat for the other to walk all over. Usually they have been head over heels in love with the other person for years, but never gotten the courage to say out loud their feelings. They're best friends or have been in each others lives for a long time when the story starts. And they do anything for the other person, while the other treats them badly, mainly because the other just takes the behavior. And all I keep thinking is why are we rooting for a pairing, where one half is a selfish, self centered, and thoughtless brat who tends to use and mistreat the other because they never stand up for themselves. Not in a cruel way, but they think that behavior is ok because no one calls them out before. Plus your thinking with the doormat, where is your self respect and that the relationship is so unhealthy unbalanced.
I agree I hate the I’m gonna be mean first trope. Also I think this is why I’m not keen on enemies to lovers. I’m ok with competitors to lovers or dislike to lovers but I hate the hate. Lol. I also don’t like triangles. They give me too much anxiety. Have you tried Penny Reid? I liked her two novellas Kissing Tolstoy is one I really liked and it was nice and short a sampler. Also Neanderthal seeks Human. I remember enjoying
Virgin river is a show that has the first trope done well imo
Re: third act breakup. I also just feel like it sets a kind of toxic expectation (yes I am aware romance books aren't necessarily supposed to be realistic but STILL) that for a relationship to work it has to be 100% harmonious all the time because conflict = breakup. Like, imagine just like, resolving conflict without breaking up???? Like I have an anxious attachment style and I used to genuinely believe that whenever someone would get mad at me for something I did it would mean the end of that relationship forever (whether platonic and romantic) and it would make me not set boundaries in order to avoid conflict. I feel like a lot of people end up in toxic relationships that way and I'm not saying that's romance fiction's fault, it definitely isn't, BUT it would also be nice to have books NOT reinfoce that anxiety, you know?
2:11 “A relationship built through phone or text” Oh hey, it’s Sleepless in Seattle (1993 film)!
One trope I discovered that I don’t like is when the male love interest talks down to his female partner and treats them like a child. I think there’s a difference between having a childish personality, and being capable of looking after yourself and taking responsibility.
If you want to dote on your love-interest, male or female, because they’re small, cute, and/or innocent, that’s fine, but I don’t think that means becoming essentially their parent and doing EVERYTHING for them and taking over most aspects in their lives.
From there, the relationship becomes very controlling at that point, and very one-sided since only one partner is putting in all the effort.
yep, i find the third act break up trope super tedious and was actually what stopped me from reading romance back in 2014/2016 ish and i just got back into romance and now there are books!! without that breakup!!!! i get why its there but i much prefer them arguing in the third act rather than them breaking up bc it always feels like its going from 1 to 100
strangely i tend not to enjoy time skips in romances (especially in friends to lovers) where it jumps back from present day to them in the past. i always find myself caring way more about them in present day and wanting to read that storyline more. maybe i just havent read a really good one yet!
Have you read Bet Me by Jennifer Crusie? It's the bet trope, but flipped upside down and spun sideways.
Yes I hate the 3rd act breakup sooooooo much! I recently found an author who doesn’t do them and I am currently going through her backlist. Onley James!
Third act breakups are just so frustrating, admittedly I don't read much romance but it's tropes like this that put me off
I hate most romantic tropes and yet I keep coming back to romance books that are full of them, which is perhaps the biggest romantic trope of all
The third-act breakup seems to be an offshoot of the dragged out "Will They Won't They" stuff plus the romantic version of the third act falling out between friends that shows up a lot particularly in American animated films for kids.
I think you might enjoy some of Nora Roberts urban fantasy/romance books. Yes they are formulaic but they actually have decent plots involving the fantasy/supernatural portion and the conflicts for the couple come from internal and external places. The Three Witches trilogy from her is great and there are witches
I really hate accidental pregnancy and surprise baby.
I personally really love epistolary tropes but I feel it works best in historicals for me and I only want it to be a part of the beginning. I hate when we're 70% in and they still haven't met in person.
As far as 3rd act conflicts, Sarina Bowen actually does a really good job of having them resolved quickly because the characters will actually comminicate with each other. Like one character will be upset for an hour, cool off, and then talk things through
I am very specific with what I like in my romances. But I really hate the big breakup too. A lot of people don't ever actually break up over some of the things the couples in these books do. They do have a big fight. I wish their was more of a big fight. If your go to is to break up with someone over any fight...yikes
I hate hidden identity plots in romance - particularly as the break-up then usually occurs after the couple have had sex for the first time because one person has found out the other person isn't who they said they were, and there are a whole bunch of consent issues there we just don't need.
The third act breakup is so obnoxious in the majority of books. Christina Lauren's books are typically 4 stars until that point then the rating tanks. One of the reasons Mariana Zapata works so well is her books don't have that.
because they don't get together until the last 10% lol
@@ThoughtsOnTomes hahaha honestly true
i hate when they have a third act break after sex is so sleazy to me as well
I understand why the trope where “omg she/he/they doesn’t like me” when it’s so obvious that the person does" is annoying. I also understand it, because when people's love languages dont match very well or when some people are more action based than word based, people get confused.
Wonderful video, Sam! The third act breakup is SO ANNOYING. It just feels forced most of the time?? Also, I’ve noticed that I’m not a fan of romance novels where each person in the romance has a perspective. I feel like it takes away the tension from the story (most of the time), and I like feeling uncertain or flustered along with the main character. It was one of the reasons why I wasn’t a fan of The Kiss Quotient.