Many happy returns to Matt; greatly appreciate the hours of no-nonsense, dryly-witted insight and opinion provided regarding all things Doctor Who! I remain cautiously optimistic about the colourised/abridged War Games. Like many, I never have a problem watching the entirety, the pacing to length ratio being so impressive, that never once has it felt like a slog, even when watched in one sitting; also, that wonderful Tardis crew dynamic was never more endearing than in this story and I would never wilfully want less of it; no need to, of course, the offering next month being supplementary, instead of supplanting, and this is the crux of the matter. There are also, generally, some memorable character interactions, major elements of which will be sacrificed due to such an extreme cut, but the important allegorical message, woven so effectively throughout, can be retained. Assuming this to happen, housed within a well-told version of the tale, my preference would be for an implied regeneration, much like the original. Nevertheless, on the back of a successful rendering, I would be prepared to give some latitude to a vertical 'handover', coupled with some anachronistic, new era 'yellowface', prior to welcoming Jon Pertwee. Any inclusion of Timeless Child-related distortion , however, will void enjoyment, and it's the saddest of indictments of Davies' trustworthiness that I'm giving serious thought to checking the nature of the regeneration before even watching the main story. Ian Marter is always worthy of mention, gone too soon and ever appreciated. The Doctor, Sarah and Harry was the best Tardis team during Baker's tenure, and possibly the best ever. Far more than being merely an agreeable addition to the expected two hander, Marter contributed significantly to the aforementioned success. Watching as a child, I felt that this threesome could accomplish anything, an opinion unchanged nearly half a century later. Also, I greatly enjoyed Marter's contribution to the Target novelisations, tending as they did, to be comparable to Terrance Dicks', albeit with a fair measure of added bad language and gratuitous violence! I didn't want the show to return so soon after Chibnall's near terminal era , much preferring a hiatus prior to a well-judged repair effort, preferably at the hands of an entirely new showrunner like Toby Withouse. Sadly, reparation remains a necessity, and Moffat's tendency to remain true to the core elements of the show, his understanding of the extent to which boundaries can safely be pushed, means that I would not be averse to him at least having an overseeing role. He can't save this era, but he can elevate it to a much more respectable level, improving greatly its relationship with fandom before its long overdue end. Not to put too fine a point on it, I intend to plunder the remainder of this singularly ungenerous current era for every bit of hard-earned enjoyment that I can get. Many thanks, Dan, Charlotte, Jon, Antony, and Matt, for another invaluable debate. All the best for now. Paul
Great show. Many thanks, Dan, Jon, Charlotte, Antony and Matt. The more I think about it, the less likely I am to watch The War Games in Colour. I love things in black & white, so the addition of colour acts as no lure for me. And this version will most probably skim through the story feeling like some sort of extended trailer. Why would I watch something that has bits missing? I didn't watch the re-edit of Pyramids of Mars for the same reason. On the one hand it's reassuring that Patrick Troughton will be seen regenerating into Jon Pertwee, rather than bi-regenerating into Jo Martin, but on the other hand, by closing that gap, doesn't that further enforce the belief that the Fugitive Doctor is pre-William Hartnell? She can't now be a product of some Season 6b scene because that window of opportunity has been comprehensively bricked in. Or are we to claim that this re-edit isn't canon? I would prefer NOT to see Patrick Troughton regenerate into Jon Pertwee, to maintain the possibility that SOMETHING occurred in that gap - if only the 2nd Doctor's participation in The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors.
About the Christmas special, Steven Moffat claims that, "This year the Doctor will tell you the answer to that question you've been asking since you were a small child. The solution to the longest-standing mystery in not just the Doctor Who universe, but the universe as a whole." Question: Why is the TARDIS bigger on the inside than on the outside? Answer: It needs to be that big to house all of Ncuti's new clothes. - The next time the TARDIS explodes, all of time and space will be smothered in toffee paper crop tops, feather-lined windcheaters, transparent plastic kilts, gold lamé boilersuits, luminous bobblehats, and every other manner of ridiculous attire that this Doctor has accrued in all his off-screen adventures. ... Oh no, sorry, wait a minute. I think I might be confusing the actor for the character. Easily done.
I take it this Tardis picture is from the new special? Amy’s Choice has some terrific lines, one of my favourite episodes. Also one of my fav scenes, when Rory gets snuffed for the first time. Not because he got snuffed lol (he didn’t really anyway) but because of the interactions between Amy and the Doctor.
Okay, I’m listening and commenting so they’re could be several. Lol, I’ve been listening to both the Frozen and Wicked Soundtracks. I’m a sucker for Let it Go, and I love Idina Menzel
I never saw the Doctor as a hero I always see him as an alien scientist who travels around trying to help he does a heroic things but I never thought he was a dashing hero I feel with NuWho they make him too much of a whimsical Indiana Jones or too worshipped as a god I prefer the alien scientist the Doctor use to be.
I think RTD colourises these black and white episodes to annoy the fans to be honest but also for cash because his current stuff is failing so he thought "Here will bring back the fans by messing up some Classic Who" out of spite. The scene where the Second Doctor chooses his face even though I like Jodie's Doctor I don't want her face in the pictures in the re-edit version either. In all seriousness I don't know why it even needs it it's fine as it is they should leave it alone if the so called new generation fans don't have the patience to sit down and watch a 25 minute black and white episode then i'm sorry but tough luck don't watch it go and go watch NuWho. It's just vandalising and unnecessary to me I'm surprised the Terry Nation estate haven't made a copyright sue against RTD for the Davros issue.
i bought 2 x steelbook, 1 x bluray, 1 x dvd of 'the daleks' and have never rewatched it. not sure i will buy anything other than the standard bluray of this latest one and only when i can grab a copy cheap. i don't like the potential horror show of this current lot adding to troughton's regeneration given their track record. in my mind it's not going to be great. i could be wrong and i hope i am but...
hold up: do you mean you purchased several different editions of last years Daleks in Colour? Across formats, but have never actually watched them? Only the original broadcast?
Matt and Jon are exactly on point on how I'm feeling on this current interaction of the show before RTD was announced as the next showrunner I was hoping for JMS because he would had brought back serial formats and would get the Doctor off to alien planets which I think is what "Dr. Who" needs to get back to or a woman for a change which we havent had a woman producer since Verity Lambert I also think we need another Hinchliffe to be quite honest because it needs to get back to the darker tones and complete science I think the whole being fun and whimsical is becoming a tired trope but most of all I'm just ready for new people in general who respect the history doesn't break the rule book and who aren't fans of the show "Dr. Who" was always progressing that's why the Classic series was such a success I know I keep mentioning the Jodie/Chibnall era but one of the reasons I like that era I suppose was because it was different and more serious and realistic only it was different too far which retconning the origin wasn't the difference I wanted.
I don't have an issue with your general point. In the same way i don't with Matt or Jon's. What mystifies me if your consideration that any form of real renewal must come with the employing of a woman again, in the lead role. On principle. After such a staggering failure. Which in many respects, the series is still counting the costs of.
It was "different" in the way it was incompetent shit. With next to no redeeming features, yes. The series absolutely does need to expand it's imagination on the week to week. The code to crack in doing that, does not involve identity politics in any way whatsoever. It doesn't even require anything especially radical. Just a clear head, stocked with a good couple of dozen notions for ideas for stories. And a distinctive voice.
I look at the colorised version as a lovely extra. It doesn’t replace the original. What a bunch of negative Nancys But tbf, I think we’re all sick of remakes
brain's faggots are a uk legend. years ago (decades) i used to live near a chippie that did faggots in gravy, mushy peas and chips for £1, a good meal very cheap. funnily they remind of a time when i had fallen out of love with the show. i will always thank rtd for 2005 and re-igniting my love for the show. i will never forgive him for some of what he's done since.
I do not have a TV licence. But even if I did. I would not watch this. Troughton is my favourite Doctor. RTD is killing the Original Who. I am happy now just to watch the first seven Doctors. Doctor Who is Dead. RIP DOCTOR WHO.
Hi Graham, I don't have a licence either. I gave mine up in 2020 after the Timeless Children debacle. I'm not sure RTD really "gets" the broader fandom anymore. I like that he's still into the things he's into! And can still recognise talent and give it a chance and showcase. However, I do feel he's out of touch as regards what the general public want of the ongoing series. Which for all intents have left it a series that may as well not be in production, the amount of prestige it now has.
Thanks for another enjoyable episode of 'The Poppy Show' Dan and panel. Happy Birthday Matt. P.S. It's good to have Antony as a regular.
Yes, we're delighted to have added Antony to the team! Expect more from him in 2025!!!
Many happy returns to Matt; greatly appreciate the hours of no-nonsense, dryly-witted insight and opinion provided regarding all things Doctor Who!
I remain cautiously optimistic about the colourised/abridged War Games. Like many, I never have a problem watching the entirety, the pacing to length ratio being so impressive, that never once has it felt like a slog, even when watched in one sitting; also, that wonderful Tardis crew dynamic was never more endearing than in this story and I would never wilfully want less of it; no need to, of course, the offering next month being supplementary, instead of supplanting, and this is the crux of the matter.
There are also, generally, some memorable character interactions, major elements of which will be sacrificed due to such an extreme cut, but the important allegorical message, woven so effectively throughout, can be retained. Assuming this to happen, housed within a well-told version of the tale, my preference would be for an implied regeneration, much like the original. Nevertheless, on the back of a successful rendering, I would be prepared to give some latitude to a vertical 'handover', coupled with some anachronistic, new era 'yellowface', prior to welcoming Jon Pertwee.
Any inclusion of Timeless Child-related distortion , however, will void enjoyment, and it's the saddest of indictments of Davies' trustworthiness that I'm giving serious thought to checking the nature of the regeneration before even watching the main story.
Ian Marter is always worthy of mention, gone too soon and ever appreciated. The Doctor, Sarah and Harry was the best Tardis team during Baker's tenure, and possibly the best ever. Far more than being merely an agreeable addition to the expected two hander, Marter contributed significantly to the aforementioned success. Watching as a child, I felt that this threesome could accomplish anything, an opinion unchanged nearly half a century later. Also, I greatly enjoyed Marter's contribution to the Target novelisations, tending as they did, to be comparable to Terrance Dicks', albeit with a fair measure of added bad language and gratuitous violence!
I didn't want the show to return so soon after Chibnall's near terminal era , much preferring a hiatus prior to a well-judged repair effort, preferably at the hands of an entirely new showrunner like Toby Withouse. Sadly, reparation remains a necessity, and Moffat's tendency to remain true to the core elements of the show, his understanding of the extent to which boundaries can safely be pushed, means that I would not be averse to him at least having an overseeing role. He can't save this era, but he can elevate it to a much more respectable level, improving greatly its relationship with fandom before its long overdue end.
Not to put too fine a point on it, I intend to plunder the remainder of this singularly ungenerous current era for every bit of hard-earned enjoyment that I can get.
Many thanks, Dan, Charlotte, Jon, Antony, and Matt, for another invaluable debate.
All the best for now.
Paul
Great show. Many thanks, Dan, Jon, Charlotte, Antony and Matt.
The more I think about it, the less likely I am to watch The War Games in Colour. I love things in black & white, so the addition of colour acts as no lure for me. And this version will most probably skim through the story feeling like some sort of extended trailer. Why would I watch something that has bits missing? I didn't watch the re-edit of Pyramids of Mars for the same reason.
On the one hand it's reassuring that Patrick Troughton will be seen regenerating into Jon Pertwee, rather than bi-regenerating into Jo Martin, but on the other hand, by closing that gap, doesn't that further enforce the belief that the Fugitive Doctor is pre-William Hartnell? She can't now be a product of some Season 6b scene because that window of opportunity has been comprehensively bricked in. Or are we to claim that this re-edit isn't canon?
I would prefer NOT to see Patrick Troughton regenerate into Jon Pertwee, to maintain the possibility that SOMETHING occurred in that gap - if only the 2nd Doctor's participation in The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors.
Not ~bits~ missing, 70% of the story is missing! Utter insanity.
Happy Belated Birthday @Matt Pott
Cheers Vanessa!!
About the Christmas special, Steven Moffat claims that, "This year the Doctor will tell you the answer to that question you've been asking since you were a small child. The solution to the longest-standing mystery in not just the Doctor Who universe, but the universe as a whole."
Question: Why is the TARDIS bigger on the inside than on the outside?
Answer: It needs to be that big to house all of Ncuti's new clothes. - The next time the TARDIS explodes, all of time and space will be smothered in toffee paper crop tops, feather-lined windcheaters, transparent plastic kilts, gold lamé boilersuits, luminous bobblehats, and every other manner of ridiculous attire that this Doctor has accrued in all his off-screen adventures. ... Oh no, sorry, wait a minute. I think I might be confusing the actor for the character. Easily done.
This gave me a good and very much needed laugh. Cheers, Crimpleen! :)
I take it this Tardis picture is from the new special? Amy’s Choice has some terrific lines, one of my favourite episodes. Also one of my fav scenes, when Rory gets snuffed for the first time. Not because he got snuffed lol (he didn’t really anyway) but because of the interactions between Amy and the Doctor.
"The Unsnuffed Man"
Okay, I’m listening and commenting so they’re could be several.
Lol, I’ve been listening to both the Frozen and Wicked Soundtracks. I’m a sucker for Let it Go, and I love Idina Menzel
I think my getting the others to watch Wicked and cover it on the other channel? Could be a hard sell haha
I never saw the Doctor as a hero I always see him as an alien scientist who travels around trying to help he does a heroic things but I never thought he was a dashing hero I feel with NuWho they make him too much of a whimsical Indiana Jones or too worshipped as a god I prefer the alien scientist the Doctor use to be.
Regardless of how we each think of him precisely? Or how he views himself, The Doctor absolutely is a hero.
The SIDERAT is also supposed to be green, as mentioned in the story, but I think they went for black? 🤷♂
It looks Green to me, in the trailer? When it's spinning and in the landing bay on Gallifrey.
I know, my excuses are getting old and tired. But it’s Thanksgiving. Still had to come and say hi if only in the comments
Happy Thanksgiving!!! And 've finally found out today, what Thanksgiving is and why America celebrates it.
I think RTD colourises these black and white episodes to annoy the fans to be honest but also for cash because his current stuff is failing so he thought "Here will bring back the fans by messing up some Classic Who" out of spite.
The scene where the Second Doctor chooses his face even though I like Jodie's Doctor I don't want her face in the pictures in the re-edit version either.
In all seriousness I don't know why it even needs it it's fine as it is they should leave it alone if the so called new generation fans don't have the patience to sit down and watch a 25 minute black and white episode then i'm sorry but tough luck don't watch it go and go watch NuWho.
It's just vandalising and unnecessary to me I'm surprised the Terry Nation estate haven't made a copyright sue against RTD for the Davros issue.
i bought 2 x steelbook, 1 x bluray, 1 x dvd of 'the daleks' and have never rewatched it. not sure i will buy anything other than the standard bluray of this latest one and only when i can grab a copy cheap. i don't like the potential horror show of this current lot adding to troughton's regeneration given their track record. in my mind it's not going to be great. i could be wrong and i hope i am but...
hold up: do you mean you purchased several different editions of last years Daleks in Colour? Across formats, but have never actually watched them? Only the original broadcast?
I love the red jacket but I am so sick of those lacklustre shirts. They’re so drab
they have to start bringing this all in now, I feel. Deciding on a look and, within reason sticking with it.
Matt and Jon are exactly on point on how I'm feeling on this current interaction of the show before RTD was announced as the next showrunner I was hoping for JMS because he would had brought back serial formats and would get the Doctor off to alien planets which I think is what "Dr. Who" needs to get back to or a woman for a change which we havent had a woman producer since Verity Lambert I also think we need another Hinchliffe to be quite honest because it needs to get back to the darker tones and complete science I think the whole being fun and whimsical is becoming a tired trope but most of all I'm just ready for new people in general who respect the history doesn't break the rule book and who aren't fans of the show "Dr. Who" was always progressing that's why the Classic series was such a success I know I keep mentioning the Jodie/Chibnall era but one of the reasons I like that era I suppose was because it was different and more serious and realistic only it was different too far which retconning the origin wasn't the difference I wanted.
I don't have an issue with your general point. In the same way i don't with Matt or Jon's. What mystifies me if your consideration that any form of real renewal must come with the employing of a woman again, in the lead role. On principle.
After such a staggering failure. Which in many respects, the series is still counting the costs of.
It was "different" in the way it was incompetent shit. With next to no redeeming features, yes.
The series absolutely does need to expand it's imagination on the week to week. The code to crack in doing that, does not involve identity politics in any way whatsoever. It doesn't even require anything especially radical.
Just a clear head, stocked with a good couple of dozen notions for ideas for stories. And a distinctive voice.
I look at the colorised version as a lovely extra. It doesn’t replace the original. What a bunch of negative Nancys
But tbf, I think we’re all sick of remakes
I do wish we could relax a touch and see how things play out. Though I do understand and respect the doubts folks have.
brain's faggots are a uk legend. years ago (decades) i used to live near a chippie that did faggots in gravy, mushy peas and chips for £1, a good meal very cheap. funnily they remind of a time when i had fallen out of love with the show. i will always thank rtd for 2005 and re-igniting my love for the show. i will never forgive him for some of what he's done since.
My God! Chips with gravy!!!! I don't think I've had that in 20 years. NOW I want some haha
I do not have a TV licence. But even if I did. I would not watch this. Troughton is my favourite Doctor. RTD is killing the Original Who. I am happy now just to watch the first seven Doctors. Doctor Who is Dead. RIP DOCTOR WHO.
Hi Graham,
I don't have a licence either. I gave mine up in 2020 after the Timeless Children debacle. I'm not sure RTD really "gets" the broader fandom anymore. I like that he's still into the things he's into! And can still recognise talent and give it a chance and showcase. However, I do feel he's out of touch as regards what the general public want of the ongoing series. Which for all intents have left it a series that may as well not be in production, the amount of prestige it now has.