Yep. One of the major problems is that the sharpness and set on the saw blade are not even. That is why the kerf curves sharply. Either that, or the saw blade is not parallel to the track. Probably a combination of both problems.
The possibility’s, for disaster, are almost endless. But my money is on someone wrapped around the PTO shaft. Although random flying objects is a close contender. It sounded like the Titanic scraping the iceberg.
Looks a lot like a belsaw M14. I have one I have been sewing with for 40 years and still use it all the time. Mine is an inserted tooth blade. I run mine with a tractor. I have cut untold thousands of board feet with this all-male you just have to know what your doing. There is information on the web on how to set Mill up, sharpen the teeth, and check to see if the blade is hammered properly.
My dad ordered a Belsaw in the late 70s and built it using an old logging truck trailer to make it mobile. A Ford 240 inline 6 powered it. I pulled quite a few boards off of it as a young man until he sold it in the mid 80s and bought a mobile dimension mill. The Belsaw is still making boards in N CA for its owner.
A couple of tips: When your making your first cut, advance the log with the dogs loose, so it won’t roll the log and bind up. Then tighten them down before entering the cut. Belsaw always recommended not turning larger logs on the carriage. The recommended turning the log on the indeed and sliding it back onto the carriage. You’ll get it dialed in.
Not sure if the tractor is yours or not, but out of the interest of preservation of that little machine.... please try the following. The tractor has a two stage clutch, pushing the pedal down all the way should disengage the PTO. If the PTO does not disengage even with clutch fully depressed means that the clutch has gone out of adjustment. There's an inspection plate on the side of the bell-housing that can be removed that should permit access to three adjusting screws on the clutch cover plate. Set these to the correct setting and with any luck your PTO clutch should work again. I had the same issue on a David Brown 950 tractor. The adjuster (one of three equally spaced around the clutch), it's the 1/2 spanner size nut with the allen screw adjuster down the centre. Slacken the nut and screw the adjuster until it contacts something (pressure plate) then back off 1.5 turns. Don't forget to do all three.
The Thunderbird is a '58 or '59. Was the squeaking the carriage wheels ? Mine had a couple that had been stuck so long the previous owner drug them completely flat. I had to make new ones. If you have a couple red cedar close by that seems to be a good wood to set up the saw by. Even though cedar is brasch, it cuts easily and will give you time to assess the condition of the saw. For example, is it dull? Does it need a swaging? Is the carriage running true? Is the bed bending or bowing? Is the blade hammered for a right hand mill or left hand mill? Is the blade hammered for 540 rpm? Of course, its now two months past the date of this first run, so I am sure by now you've got it running pretty smooth. I totally enjoyed this video !!
Yessir, everything you said was correct. The saw has new bits, the "wheels" (really piddly rollers) had flat spots so new ones were milled, the carriage was way out of square, etc. Everything has mostly been addressed but it's still vastly underpowered but it has cut quite a few boards since this video. The comments to this video have been tremendously helpful.....lots of people really know their stuff! We had never messed with a mill prior to this but as my grandpa said, just dive in and figure it out!
One gentleman mentioned swadge and a couple other thing re saw velocity and such.....one more thing that needs to be added to that is saw tension which is also extremely important in a circular saw.....this saw may need to be hammered to get tension back into it.....if not it won’t ever cut straight or true.....no matter what you do.....
Tennessee Sawmill Guy hey thanks man. Fortunately the guy in the matco sweatshirt can make anything and has quite a few stand alone diesel powerplants. We're going back out tomorrow and I'll try to get detailed video on everything. If anything stands out to you please comment
As a experienced Sawyer a few problems I see. First off saw is very dull and teeth needed swedged. Secondly rpm's are not high enough to make the blade stand up flat under load. Third there is alot of rust on the blade that needs cleaned up that robs you of horsepower. The tractor if running properly should have ample horsepower for the saw.
@@gattonpc none of those should matter I have seen plenty of mills run off similar tractors. The wood being dry does make it denser but if the saw is working properly seasoned wood should not matter.
@@gattonpc well what you say is only an issue because of all the other issues. If the mill was in good operational condition those things you mentioned would not be a problem. What you said is true but they are symptoms not the cause. You don't treat symptoms you fix the causes of the trouble.
@@kenjett2434 " If the mill was in good operational condition" Neither things you mentioned would not be a problem. Aparently you missed your own point in this discution. Well.. cheers.
Green you are, those old David browns have a hand clutch for the power take off. It is on the left and you pull it up. Dead tree meets dull old blade, when you pull the lever to slide the log the back dog is supposed to be connected with a rod to the front one abd both move. Same if you have a three dog table.
Your saw needs serviced ,do you no what speed the mantle is running you need to no that and tell the man hammering your saw ,you don't have enough power not even close, check yours leed you need 1/4 inch make sure nothing is moving on you everything needs to be bolted down good. I hope you get everything working good . Not enough of the mills running. Thanks for putting this up. Good luck!
Leed is important but 1/4 inch is just a bit much and can cause the saw to drift and bind. 1/8th is common but I have seen 1/16th be ample leed. If you need more than 1/8th to run, you have bigger problems.
Y'all know just enough to be dangerous but it makes for enjoyable viewing. Noticed you cleaned up the arbor w/ a file and somehow neglected the teeth, good on you. Blade looks like a huge rusty mess, adds a lot of drag. Saw may need hammered but being you don't even know what rpm to run at, guess that doesn't matter much. Personally, those old Belsaw m14's scare the shit out me.
Not a m-14 but much older, got one like it from 1940s. This saw was converted from hand crank carriage feed. It will have the old 1 1/2 mandrel.And the carriage ever part is replaceable.
Hey Colonialfiend - about that blade - check out "How to Hammer a Circular Saw Blade" on Casey Creamer's youtube channel called Northern Logger. Don't get scared off with the technical stuff - good watching! Great set of videos guys! - Joe -
mater man saw it a few times while on the property. It was covered with typical old stuff. We turned the blade and realized the carriage moved. We also saw a box of new teeth and figured there might be potential. We approached the owner, who is a super nice guy, and he said have at it
Yells at the TV "the log is pushing the blade over binding it"! Something's not right with the carriage or the log setup. Oh , and crank that DB up! ;-)
Gigmaster thanks Steve. Yeah, we probably need more hp to keep it running at the required rpms. We'll figure it out....or rather my buddy Thomas will :)
Plenty of grease put into all fittings and every moveable piece of steel as well as the tracks were lubed. I'll do an updated video to show the progress. There's also a rigged lubing system. It's been fun
To run a mill like that with tractor , you need atleast 70 HP. Especially sawing hardwoods like oak or hickory . And not hydraulic p.t.o. need clutch style P.t.o. the hydraulic drive , will slow down and after while , pump gets hot and break down . Or get a diesel power unit . If use pto , need bigger tractor .
Yessir. This video is old but yes, we were vastly underpowered, especially under load and the saw wasn't staying true.....just wobbling. We've since replaced the bits, cleaned the rust, trued' up the carriage and did some gearing changes to keep up the rpms but of course running slower. My buddy has a couple of Cummins' that would power this thing appropriately but is it worth it to go through the effort for a rudimentary, homeowner mill? Regardless, we can cut lumber as it now sits without putting any money towards it.
That's good . I hate to see something like that sit and ruin . You all had a great find there . Not just the mill . Good luck to ya and hope everything goes well . HAPPY NEW YEAR .
Be warned that mill can only handle about 40 hp. That 1 1/2 mandrel can snap off at about 500 ft pounds of torque, the mill was designed for very slow feed. I have bought several of these mills after bad accidents. The one i am running now a guy got killed on it. I got several in different shapes. A couple will broke mandrels. At very least use belts on mandrel to limit hp. I frist run one of these mills at 14 year old with old 8n ford tractor sawing cross ties. So i got over 50 years total running them. Also got big frick mill. be it takes a crew to run it. And the bell saw runs much cheaper.
Did the blade keep flexing over? Man you guys can't be faulted for lack of trying. When we're y'all working on this? Were you able to get it to work for you yet? Happy New Year guys 🎉☺
Kaye's Diggin It yeah, it would bow when it hit a knot. You can hear the tractor bog down quite a bit when cutting so we could not have enough horsepower, the blade could be dull or both. We're determined to cut up a whole log so we'll figure it out
As stated blade needs a deep cleaning and detailed sharpening. bet anything that solves the bogging problem. Your tractor is definitely not underpowered. And the t bird is either 58 or 59.
The rails need ATF on them, like the newer ones have and some on the chain also!!!!!!!! The tractor can not be in idle needs to be going faster than this....say 3000 RPM to 4500 RPM!!!!!!
Blades dull not enough rpms and oil yhe track wheels or put new bearing ones in,i saw the the whole carriage and frame move not good ,sawing with a dull blade will cause many problems
Definitely the track needs to be greased its dry or gear oil and the saw is working to harder because it rusty if you take sand paper and sand most of the rust off you will see a big difference and the teeth may need sharpen
That was totally miss aligned, as in the carrage was not in line with the blade , or maybe the blade is blunt and ground "not square", it totally cut towards the operator, your damm lucky the teeth on the blade didnt catch the machine and have a dangerous situation on your hands. The blade needs to be dropped off at your local Saw Doctor and check if it needs a hammer then properly sharpened, actually the teeth looked to me as replaceable tips.
He died a few years back. From what we learned over the past couple of years, he was good man. He was super resourceful and like men from years ago, made do with what he had.
I'm sure you guys know this about horsepower... It's like sex. Way too much is just about enough!! Actually, I think that rusty blade needs to be cleaned up and sharpened, and then it will work as expected.
Lol. We cleaned the blade and replaced bits. We also squared the tracks. We can't do much about the HP right now but we did slow down the carriage so it's cutting good but slow. If we can ever make it back there I'll make an updated video. Thanks for watching!
Another episode of dumb and dumber. Lol
Yep. One of the major problems is that the sharpness and set on the saw blade are not even. That is why the kerf curves sharply. Either that, or the saw blade is not parallel to the track. Probably a combination of both problems.
The possibility’s, for disaster, are almost endless. But my money is on someone wrapped around the PTO shaft. Although random flying objects is a close contender. It sounded like the Titanic scraping the iceberg.
Looks a lot like a belsaw M14. I have one I have been sewing with for 40 years and still use it all the time. Mine is an inserted tooth blade. I run mine with a tractor. I have cut untold thousands of board feet with this all-male you just have to know what your doing. There is information on the web on how to set Mill up, sharpen the teeth, and check to see if the blade is hammered properly.
You should never run a pto with those sharp double angles....
Amazing post! I really appreciated the way you recorded , simple and real! Thanks
I love these videos of old abandoned machines brought back to life!!
My dad ordered a Belsaw in the late 70s and built it using an old logging truck trailer to make it mobile. A Ford 240 inline 6 powered it. I pulled quite a few boards off of it as a young man until he sold it in the mid 80s and bought a mobile dimension mill. The Belsaw is still making boards in N CA for its owner.
Do you have any videos of it? I'd love to see it
The blade is dull but the video is not! Thanks for all the detailed shots
Good grief! AT LEAST you could've got rid of most of the rust and oiled/greased everything.
A couple of tips: When your making your first cut, advance the log with the dogs loose, so it won’t roll the log and bind up. Then tighten them down before entering the cut.
Belsaw always recommended not turning larger logs on the carriage. The recommended turning the log on the indeed and sliding it back onto the carriage.
You’ll get it dialed in.
good guy right there, passing on the advice without being a dick.
I suspect that big wheel on the shaft you connected the tractor drive to was for a line shaft steam power setup. Man that thing is old lol
Not sure if the tractor is yours or not, but out of the interest of preservation of that little machine.... please try the following. The tractor has a two stage clutch, pushing the pedal down all the way should disengage the PTO. If the PTO does not disengage even with clutch fully depressed means that the clutch has gone out of adjustment. There's an inspection plate on the side of the bell-housing that can be removed that should permit access to three adjusting screws on the clutch cover plate. Set these to the correct setting and with any luck your PTO clutch should work again. I had the same issue on a David Brown 950 tractor. The adjuster (one of three equally spaced around the clutch), it's the 1/2 spanner size nut with the allen screw adjuster down the centre. Slacken the nut and screw the adjuster until it contacts something (pressure plate) then back off 1.5 turns. Don't forget to do all three.
The Thunderbird is a '58 or '59. Was the squeaking the carriage wheels ? Mine had a couple that had been stuck so long the previous owner drug them completely flat. I had to make new ones. If you have a couple red cedar close by that seems to be a good wood to set up the saw by. Even though cedar is brasch, it cuts easily and will give you time to assess the condition of the saw. For example, is it dull? Does it need a swaging? Is the carriage running true? Is the bed bending or bowing? Is the blade hammered for a right hand mill or left hand mill? Is the blade hammered for 540 rpm? Of course, its now two months past the date of this first run, so I am sure by now you've got it running pretty smooth. I totally enjoyed this video !!
Yessir, everything you said was correct. The saw has new bits, the "wheels" (really piddly rollers) had flat spots so new ones were milled, the carriage was way out of square, etc. Everything has mostly been addressed but it's still vastly underpowered but it has cut quite a few boards since this video. The comments to this video have been tremendously helpful.....lots of people really know their stuff! We had never messed with a mill prior to this but as my grandpa said, just dive in and figure it out!
One gentleman mentioned swadge and a couple other thing re saw velocity and such.....one more thing that needs to be added to that is saw tension which is also extremely important in a circular saw.....this saw may need to be hammered to get tension back into it.....if not it won’t ever cut straight or true.....no matter what you do.....
My great aunt and uncle had one of these on there farm in Frenchburg Kentucky
Good work. We did the same thing with an old Belsaw.
Lots of tinkering and a blade service and she will be sawing good again.
Tennessee Sawmill Guy hey thanks man. Fortunately the guy in the matco sweatshirt can make anything and has quite a few stand alone diesel powerplants. We're going back out tomorrow and I'll try to get detailed video on everything. If anything stands out to you please comment
As a experienced Sawyer a few problems I see. First off saw is very dull and teeth needed swedged. Secondly rpm's are not high enough to make the blade stand up flat under load. Third there is alot of rust on the blade that needs cleaned up that robs you of horsepower. The tractor if running properly should have ample horsepower for the saw.
And the wood is to dry , and the wood feeding is to fast for that tractor to handle. IT needs a powerfull tractor or to slow down the wood feeding.
@@gattonpc none of those should matter I have seen plenty of mills run off similar tractors. The wood being dry does make it denser but if the saw is working properly seasoned wood should not matter.
@@kenjett2434 You are right..but In this video case it matters.
@@gattonpc well what you say is only an issue because of all the other issues. If the mill was in good operational condition those things you mentioned would not be a problem. What you said is true but they are symptoms not the cause. You don't treat symptoms you fix the causes of the trouble.
@@kenjett2434 " If the mill was in good operational condition" Neither things you mentioned would not be a problem. Aparently you missed your own point in this discution. Well.. cheers.
I found a house in the forest, and I lived there happily ever after 😊
That chain under it seems to be early twentieth century style which lines up with line shaft power.
Try cutting some green logs. Old wood sometimes becomes very hard to cut.
How do you find a Sawmill in the woods, and can you take possession of it then
Definitely need to take care of the blade, and bring them RPMS up
I’ve got a bell saw or a sawmobile as the army called them needs a lot of work but will cut almost as much as a hurdle automatic mill
Makes me want to put mine back together to show how it ran
Green you are, those old David browns have a hand clutch for the power take off. It is on the left and you pull it up. Dead tree meets dull old blade, when you pull the lever to slide the log the back dog is supposed to be connected with a rod to the front one abd both move. Same if you have a three dog table.
Love it history in the woods
Well I liked it, what a find.
It needs basic maintenance like a sharp saw and a green log not old hard dry hardwood is not what you try to learn with when running a sawmill
Your saw needs serviced ,do you no what speed the mantle is running you need to no that and tell the man hammering your saw ,you don't have enough power not even close, check yours leed you need 1/4 inch make sure nothing is moving on you everything needs to be bolted down good. I hope you get everything working good . Not enough of the mills running. Thanks for putting this up. Good luck!
Leed is important but 1/4 inch is just a bit much and can cause the saw to drift and bind. 1/8th is common but I have seen 1/16th be ample leed. If you need more than 1/8th to run, you have bigger problems.
Damn boys I thought I was impressive resurrecting a hand crank meat grinder lmao. Good for you guys that blade is bonkers.
Saw mill is old but it hasn't been at that location very long. Couple years at most
Yes, the tractor needs to be higher. Lots of work to do!
I'd like to build one like this
You can have the old sawmill , as long as I get the old Thunderbird lol
So just finding abandoned sawmills in the woods is a thing now?
That looks fun as hell.
Where do I sign up?
Y'all know just enough to be dangerous but it makes for enjoyable viewing. Noticed you cleaned up the arbor w/ a file and somehow neglected the teeth, good on you. Blade looks like a huge rusty mess, adds a lot of drag. Saw may need hammered but being you don't even know what rpm to run at, guess that doesn't matter much. Personally, those old Belsaw m14's scare the shit out me.
Not a m-14 but much older, got one like it from 1940s. This saw was converted from hand crank carriage feed. It will have the old 1 1/2 mandrel.And the carriage ever part is replaceable.
Wish video showed better view of the workings of mill.what makes carriage move
Pretty cool!
Hey Colonialfiend - about that blade - check out "How to Hammer a Circular Saw Blade" on Casey Creamer's youtube channel called Northern Logger. Don't get scared off with the technical stuff - good watching!
Great set of videos guys! - Joe -
Open tractor wide open and see if it helps.not enough power or speed,but also depends in how blade was set up for
great find, Legal?
Se dan multiples factores para un accidente , demasiada suerte
7:32 you don't file burrs on harden steel with a file, use a stone.
Wow how did yall wind up with that? Buy a place with it already on it? That's cool as hell.
mater man saw it a few times while on the property. It was covered with typical old stuff. We turned the blade and realized the carriage moved. We also saw a box of new teeth and figured there might be potential. We approached the owner, who is a super nice guy, and he said have at it
@@colonialfiend Are you sure he is the owner?
Table is moving. Blade is likely dull. Rust on it won't help. Shined up and shimmer.. Can't blame ya for trying. I would.
Yells at the TV "the log is pushing the blade over binding it"! Something's not right with the carriage or the log setup. Oh , and crank that DB up! ;-)
Cant believe you guys got it all running. Maybe more HP?
Gigmaster thanks Steve. Yeah, we probably need more hp to keep it running at the required rpms. We'll figure it out....or rather my buddy Thomas will :)
And it would help if yhe pto shaft is not so much in an angle build up the tractor some ,like a lot
All that old machinery and I never saw a grease gun or oil can.
Plenty of grease put into all fittings and every moveable piece of steel as well as the tracks were lubed. I'll do an updated video to show the progress. There's also a rigged lubing system. It's been fun
I am sure the teeth on the blade were not sharp but why would you try cutting a hard dried out dead log?
To run a mill like that with tractor , you need atleast 70 HP. Especially sawing hardwoods like oak or hickory . And not hydraulic p.t.o. need clutch style P.t.o. the hydraulic drive , will slow down and after while , pump gets hot and break down . Or get a diesel power unit . If use pto , need bigger tractor .
Yessir. This video is old but yes, we were vastly underpowered, especially under load and the saw wasn't staying true.....just wobbling. We've since replaced the bits, cleaned the rust, trued' up the carriage and did some gearing changes to keep up the rpms but of course running slower. My buddy has a couple of Cummins' that would power this thing appropriately but is it worth it to go through the effort for a rudimentary, homeowner mill? Regardless, we can cut lumber as it now sits without putting any money towards it.
That's good . I hate to see something like that sit and ruin . You all had a great find there . Not just the mill . Good luck to ya and hope everything goes well . HAPPY NEW YEAR .
Be warned that mill can only handle about 40 hp. That 1 1/2 mandrel can snap off at about 500 ft pounds of torque, the mill was designed for very slow feed. I have bought several of these mills after bad accidents. The one i am running now a guy got killed on it. I got several in different shapes. A couple will broke mandrels. At very least use belts on mandrel to limit hp. I frist run one of these mills at 14 year old with old 8n ford tractor sawing cross ties. So i got over 50 years total running them. Also got big frick mill. be it takes a crew to run it. And the bell saw runs much cheaper.
Doesn't look abandoned, in fact the roof looks new. Just some leaves on it
It was abandoned for 20+ years. The shed was used to store implements under.
Just happened to find a sawmill in the woods? damn! Really?
It is in the woods and hasn't been used for years and years. We asked the property owners if we could mess with it and they said to have at it
Turn up the tractor till blade rpm reaches 600 rpm or whatever rpm the saw is hammered for
You can't run 600 rpm on the blade because most tractors run at 540 rpm on the power take off if the tractor is nearly wide open throttle.
@@johnseavey6622 then run it at 540 rpm lol
Clean up the saw blade less friction
Sides of the blade had better not come in contact with the can't or you don't have enough swage in the bits
Did the blade keep flexing over?
Man you guys can't be faulted for lack of trying. When we're y'all working on this? Were you able to get it to work for you yet? Happy New Year guys 🎉☺
Kaye's Diggin It yeah, it would bow when it hit a knot. You can hear the tractor bog down quite a bit when cutting so we could not have enough horsepower, the blade could be dull or both. We're determined to cut up a whole log so we'll figure it out
As stated blade needs a deep cleaning and detailed sharpening. bet anything that solves the bogging problem. Your tractor is definitely not underpowered. And the t bird is either 58 or 59.
@@joshschneider9766 The T-bird is a 1958 model. Most of those types of saws were designed to run at 540 power take off shaft rpm
Is that old mill in Hanover county.
Why do you ask?
I just looked at the video and see what you saw when I went into the barn.
@@colonialfiend Place looks familiar. I also know where that address is,could be somewhere else tho.
Always wanted to operate a circle mill . I have a band mill but that's not old skool enough.
That's exactly where it is. It's been fun to tinker with
At least grease and lube before using it.
The rails need ATF on them, like the newer ones have and some on the chain also!!!!!!!! The tractor can not be in idle needs to be going faster than this....say 3000 RPM to 4500 RPM!!!!!!
That blade turns 500 rpm, that tractor would be lucky to turn much over 2,000 rpm wide open.
Must be home made carriage
Let off on the tension
1200 rpms
Blades dull not enough rpms and oil yhe track wheels or put new bearing ones in,i saw the the whole carriage and frame move not good ,sawing with a dull blade will cause many problems
PTO take off for a tractor.
Put new blade in the rust is holding it back
Check around maybe an older dude in the area may be able to help you out.
Don't fool with it to much till you learn alot.
My vote is it`s dull
the blade is dull , just need to sharpen and should cut straight unless the blade wont run true
Definitely the track needs to be greased its dry or gear oil and the saw is working to harder because it rusty if you take sand paper and sand most of the rust off you will see a big difference and the teeth may need sharpen
Not spinning near fast enough!
its a dull rusty spoon. no amount of rpms will fix that.
The blade is turning way too slow. It should be singing, you'll know when you get there
It’s a death trap waiting to happen, best way to make money-logs with that is to scrap it and spend the money on a chainsaw mill 🤣🤣
Teeth need Sharpening Bad. Teeth are worn more on one side causing the blade to walk out the side. Hopefully you didn't just warp the blade.
That was totally miss aligned, as in the carrage was not in line with the blade , or maybe the blade is blunt and ground "not square", it totally cut towards the operator, your damm lucky the teeth on the blade didnt catch the machine and have a dangerous situation on your hands. The blade needs to be dropped off at your local Saw Doctor and check if it needs a hammer then properly sharpened, actually the teeth looked to me as replaceable tips.
And speed it up
This looks more like someone got too old and you guys are trespassing cause this stuff looks too good to be abandoned
He died a few years back. From what we learned over the past couple of years, he was good man. He was super resourceful and like men from years ago, made do with what he had.
Great place to lose an arm or have a nasty trip.
Да.... Пилить лес - не ваше, ребята. Не ваше.
That headsaw is in terrible shape. Not sharp and has no tension in it anymore
I'm sure you guys know this about horsepower... It's like sex. Way too much is just about enough!! Actually, I think that rusty blade needs to be cleaned up and sharpened, and then it will work as expected.
Lol. We cleaned the blade and replaced bits. We also squared the tracks. We can't do much about the HP right now but we did slow down the carriage so it's cutting good but slow. If we can ever make it back there I'll make an updated video. Thanks for watching!
Y'all in over your head
Oh thats junk!
The blade is blunt you fools 🤣
sharpen them teeth
Flop
Try editing your video to five minutes. More people will watch it. And turn off your microphone
Thanks