5 Ways to Know if Your Parent is a Narcissist w/ Dr. Matthew Breuninger
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Full Episode: • Ask a Catholic Therapi...
I ask Dr. Breuninger for his take on Narcissism being used as a buzz-word online, prompting him to run off camera for his copy of the DSM-5. (a Psychology diagnosis tool) From there we talk about parenting, and the right and wrong reactions we have to imperfect human love.
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I would LOVE another show just about Catholics handling NPD relatives, esp. in close family bonds. It is difficult to navigate recovery from NPD abuse/abuser when it's a close family member, especially if you're Catholic. Lots of people think they have to take the abuse.
Your comment is my life !
I second this topic request!
I third this. I’ve been researching this because I suspect I have a mom and older sister who may be in many ways.. and I married a polite narc... struggling with best ways to have healthy boundaries. Or offer it all up when they suck my energy.. 😬🤔😁🙏
@@j2muw667 Dr Ramani has a great channel on TH-cam...so does Dr. Kim Sage. Both are helpful and validating. These are not Catholic specifically but they will help a ton. Best wishes to you. Oh yeah, and the rules of discernment from St. Ignatius can be helpful in your healing process to reset your brain a bit. Fr Timothy Gallagher has them online in podcasts. Or you can get his books. I preferred the podcast
@@MW-he4cp Thanks for the info
I grew up with a parent who meets and exceeds all of the criteria for a "vulnerable narcissist". I did not know that until mid-life. I didn't know there was a word for what was wrong with him. My family just thought, "That's Dad." I've never felt like a victim, and I still don't. And I understand that people can exhibit narcissistic behaviors without having Narcissistic Personality Disorder so I am not saying he qualifies as an official, diagnosable/clinical case of NPD, although it would not surprise me if he did. All I know is that he exhibited that behavior *ALL OF THE TIME*.
I started a journal for noting every instance of "Dad" behavior (as we called it) that came to mind or happened in the present. Over the course of a few years, I ended up with a literal 400-page book. And that was no narrative other than describing the behavior.
Since that's how I grew up, I didn't know it was *that* different from everyone else. It wasn't until college when I was talking to my academic advisor that I even got a clue. We were close so I would vent about things going on. She's the first person outside of the family I had discussed it with, and she's the first person to let me know that's not normal. I didn't learn his behaviors were considered psychological/emotional abuse until years later.
I did eventually learn that "Dad" behavior had a name (vulnerable narcissism), and I learned from a Christian counselor why he most likely ended up that way. His mother had issues with prescription drugs and she spent equal amounts of time emotionally/psychologically abusing him and spoiling him. He watched her chase his father with a butcher knife, and he saw her taken to a mental ward more than once. The counselor said that children of addicts often have no sense of security. So, they create their own security. For my Dad, that meant he was *always* right, anything that went wrong was always your fault, everything to the smallest detail must be done his way, and he required near-continuous praise and approval.
The counselor showed me something that stunned me. There was actually a description of my Dad's cycle of behavior that explained all of the "Dad" events I witnessed in my life. He walks around feeling threatened (a lack of security). The slightest infraction sets him off and he begins his psychological/emotional abuse of others. Then he turns himself into the victim and requires the other person to admit they are the problem. Then he feels empowered and secure for a short time before the cycle begins again. I watched that cyle play out with him *all* the time.
If he went to the grocery store and got the wrong item, my Mom would say, "Just so you know for next time, be sure you get brand [x]." That was all it took. That resulted in literal 24-hour arguments many, many times. They would not eat or sleep for 24-hours. They just argued because he would not stop until he wore her down and he felt empowered again. She dared suggest that he did not do something 100% perfectly so she was punished. At his worst, they would have at least one major (> 4 hour) argument at least once a week. In her older age, she just stopped talking as much. And when he went off, she simply would not respond.
If he called anyone on the phone and they weren't in, he took it as a personal attack. He would say, "They're just trying to get to me!" I asked why that would be the case. "I don't know, but I know they're just sticking it to me." If you suggested they may simply not be around, then you were part of the problem as well. He would do this with friends, family, whoever.
He continuously believed he had to fight for his rights and for everything to go his way. He believed that's how *everyone* operates. Everyone was fighting for their selfish ways so he had to fight harder. If he didn't, then he believed everyone (wife, kids, friends) would get something over on him. He had to be at the top with everyone beneath him. And my Mom was the sweetest, kindest, most caring person on the planet. Proof enough is that she stayed married to him for 47 years until her death.
Dad had *no* empathy. If my Mom got the flu, he acted like it was a nuisance and a burden. He would say, "It's not that bad, don't be a baby. How long are you going to be like this? When are you going to cook dinner?" When he got the exact same flu, it was the end of the world.
I could describe him for hours. I'll just say, if you grew up with someone who exhibited many of the symptoms of vulnerable narcissism, you eventually learn it's not normal even if you don't know what it's called. I did not know his behavior had a category and a name until midlife. It was like a eureka moment when I read the description and realized why he was the way he was.
And again, he was that way with me too, but I do not see myself as a victim. His problems and behaviors do not abdicate me of any personal responsibility.
Thanks for sharing this story. It describes well what living w a narcissist is like. It seems like God has given you the grace to rise above it and be sheltered from it your whole life - that's great - and a sign that someone had been praying hard for you! God bless you!
You're suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. You've got it BAD!!!
@@keepers... Thank you for your comment. Stockholm Syndrome is defined as "feelings of trust or affection felt in many cases of kidnapping or hostage-taking by a victim toward a captor." Did my comment mention anything about "trust or affection"? When dealing with a narcissistic parent, that's one of the issues that makes it so difficult.
They are your parent, and they do a lot of great things for you. But because of their behavior, you have a very difficult time feeling any trust or affection for them. It's like there's a block.
It took *decades* to learn what the problem was and how it affected me before I could feel any kind of affection for him. Even then, it was the kind of affection that comes with pity.
Even though it was the most difficult thing I have ever done, I did my best to practice, "Love your neighbor," and "Honor your father and mother." It was easy to honor my mother. She was honorable. Dad on the other hand…
But I never truly trusted him. A vulnerable narcissist has a hurricane of emotions *constantly* raging inside so you have no idea what you will encounter from moment to moment. It's a continuous walk on eggshells.
It was really not until after my mom died and he developed Alzheimer's that I even felt pity for him. According to the doctor at the facility, he has it particularly bad, and there was one visit when I realized I would not wish that fate on my worst enemy. And for much of my life, he was both my father and my worst enemy.
Hey, I found your story really compelling and I am so sorry for the troubles and hardships you went through due to your father. However, I am sure that this has made you an extraordinarily kind and attuned person who goes above and beyond for others, so I hope that you may always remember that every curse also comes with a gift. I will pray for better days for you and your loved ones, and I wish you all the best. From one stranger to another.
So grateful your working through this instead of being imprisoned for life. God is good!
You described my sister perfectly.. I always thought she was mean and self-centered but she fits those five criteria exactly. I never realized. Now I feel sad for her.
I think the Dr made a great point when he said that people with those disorders are slaves to everything outside of themselves, and that is indeed a very sad way to live. However, for those folk who have been "thrown under the bus" by these individuals, the fall out from that experience can be devastating. While the narcissist may be protecting themselves, they are simultaneously scanning other folks for signs of wounds or weaknesses that they can exploit. The narcissist may be wounded, but some of them are also very dangerous.
You nailed it!! These people in my life destroyed all the good love that was being given them and yes can be very physically dangerous. Absolutely!!
Narcissists never go to confession
What a great comment! So true - Lots could be said here!
I don’t use the psych terms to judge or blame my parents. I use them to distance myself from the effects of their behaviors. You can hold your parents accountable for their actions and still love them.
I praise God for having healed me of the harm and effects of narcissism. He did it in a bold way. Our God is so good! You can have peace after healing from narcissism.
I'm glad you had this conversation. For some reason, though, this talk hit a nerve. I mean no offense, but it sounded a little like you want to minimize the truth of and effects of narcissism as though you were almost siding with the abuser and maybe attacking the victim? Again, I mean no offense - I just want to validate the many victims of this abuse.
Sure there's a problem with "victimhood" today, no doubt, I cant stand it myself. But this doesn't mean there aren't any true victims.
And something just doesn't sound right with saying "we're all narcissists at one point." I couldn't disagree more strongly. In the same way we are all murderers and adulters and thieves, we are all narcissists. In other words, no, we are most definately not all narcissists.
Narcissism is not just "selfishness." Its a whole other animal. I believe selfishness may be everywhere, but narcissism is not.
Better to say we are all sinners. Narcissism is in a class all it's own. We may all lose our temper now and then but we are not all tyrannical dictators - not all of us wish to dominate and destroy other people, consistently, without stopping, and without remorse. But narcissists do just that - in their own world - to the people nearest to them.
It is truly a mental illness if there ever was one. These people do not have the normal range of human emotions, and we can and should pray for them. It is probably the precursor or gateway to sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies - esp. because of the lack of remorse and inability to feel compassion, or to understand another point of view. I don't mean they disagree with people, I mean they can't understand them. They seem incapable of stopping, and especially incapable of thinking they could ever be wrong. And the bodies start to pile up in their wake.
I think the DSM definition may be lacking. I know some narcissistic people who never act outwardly grandiose in any way. It's very internal. They wouldn't really brag about themselves, they don't feel the need to, their sense of superiority is so pervasive it doesnt ever need to be said. They show it in how they correct, control, criticize and dominate those around them faster than an AK 47. They don't hesitate.
If I haven't lost you this far, last point - I like how you said, "It's just a buzzword of today." It's about time it became a buzzword. It's about time someone started to address this and figure out why the counseling of these past 20 years has been somewhat lacking - with the attempts to get people to "communicate better" or "play nice" so to speak. Narcissists can not do this and it needs to be called out, accepted, forgiven and people need to allow themselves to move on, in some fashion or another. Not necessarily move out, but an accepted change in the relationships dynamics needs to occur.
Truth sets us free, accepting the truth allows us to think clearly and make better decisions.
No one has wanted to call a spade a spade - as far as counseling goes.
To sum this up, we are not all murderers, or adulterers, or thieves, and we are not all narcissists. Better to say we are all sinners.
Have watched a few clips from this interview now. Dr Breuninger is super likeable and I love his takes. Very helpful. Balanced.
Woah, this guy is wearing at least four shirts
I've been thinking about the Sabbath lately and how it effects mental health. Having one day set aside to cease working does make a big difference on stress in my life (when I observe it...which unfortunately is rare).
This could not have come out in a more timely manner for me. Dr. Breuniger's words pierced my heart.
Thank you Pints with Aquinas. Your work in the Holy Spirit has changed my life for the good. God Bless you and your loved ones!
Thank you. One of the hardest wounds is to see the narcissistic parent's personality show up in your poor children who had to live through it; even though you divorced him and took the children, the courts still forced them to do visitation (even tho the court appointed psychiatrist dx this parent as a "true narcissistic bi polar" 😪
Yes, but if they themselves don't have the disorder, there is hope for them that they may one day break the bad habits, once they become self aware. I've witnessed this personally. As my relative said, they had to get the "mom-gremilns" out of their head in order to change. Their mom had NPD.
If they know the parent had that problem, then they are almost at the finish line to overcome it. The way I heard it explained is, "If you are truly concerned that you may be a narcissist, then you're not a narcissist." Narcissists don't care how they behave or how it affects others. They have no concern that they're behaving in a way that hurts people.
The simple recognition of the problem in a parent and a desire to not be that way means there is already hope. The fact they don't want to be that way means they have the ability to both self-reflect and feel empathy. Those are very hard to come by for narcissists.
If a narcissist is ever able to self-reflect or feel some level of empathy, then there's hope for them. But from my experience and from everything I've read, that is extremely difficult for them.
I like the thought that we can be free rather than healed from our wounds so that we are not reactive to them. Something to ponder for a long while. Thank you.
Thanks for this clip of your interview. It is timely for it’s insight.
I remember reading the list of traits and the bottom of the page stated that if the person possesses at LEAST 5-7 of the 12 traits, then most likely, they were on the level of disorder. Less than 5 just says you have some character flaws you need to work on and pray about to overcome.
Thanks for the clip Matt!
This is such a great explanation! I really appreciate this insight.
Loving all the Dr. Breuninger clips!
Very knowledgeable, insightful and humble comments by Dr to teach us. Thank you.
So helpful especially the last minute. 🙏🏻
Please more about how to deal with wounds!!! Aka freedom.
That insecurity part and how we sometimes deal with that was an eye opener, as well as the part that sometimes we’re just supposed to be hurt, to let ourselves go through that pain. It’s speaking a lot to me.
Great video. Very helpful explanations, and wonderful insights!
"People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil" - M. Scott Peck
I think sometimes certain behaviors are what happens when people are pushed into survival mode especially when they are in abusive situations.
Lack of empathy. A need for admiration. They believe they are special. Superiority. Entitlement. Need for validation. Need for perfection. Great need for control. Lack of responsibility. Lack of boundaries. Envious. Grandiose. Ignore the needs of others. Lack ability to read body language. Fear of rejection. Anxiety. Deeply repressed shame. Inability to be truly vulnerable.
It was a longtime ago in midlife, when a former Baptist pastor who became a Psychologist(for better hours he said) assess my then wife and I in our mire. He said it had nothing to do with money or religion in the marriage but our family upbringings. Know where your date lie between enmeshed versus autonomous. Why? Lord that divorce hurt and all that followed but freedom is not priceless.
Fr. Alejandro Ortega Trillo has a book called Vices and Virtues that probably helps more than the DSM. His talk on TH-cam is really good, but it's in Spanish.
I agree with the narcissist having insecurity, but for the narcissist to create the kind of pain they do, I think the "insecurity" has to be paired with an extreme sense of self centeredness. One of the oldest sins in the book - selfishness.
I agree that true healing of our inner wounds rarely exists for as we know it's most profitable to unite our wounds with the wounds of Jesus Christ. We can't expect to get through life without suffering but letting Jesus be our Divine Physician sure eases the pain. I often like to meditate on Jesus' follow up discourse He gave to us after His sermon on the Mount. He instructed us to be good salt of the earth. Why? Because good salt was put upon the wounds to stop infection. We may not be able to cure our wounds but joined in Jesus, we can stop the infection. The peace of Christ be with you.
Ahhh freedom from being reactive to my wounds. Love that.
So wait... how do you know if your parents are narcissists? He barely went over it.
Dr. Ramani has an excellent channel about this...you can find good info there on TH-cam. Dr. Kim Sage, as well. They cover a ton.
10:30 In Sweden it's the other way round.
You excel because you like a subject (and I did not excel at other subjects) - and you get bullied for it, by people who excel not at all or less at that thing.
OK, if you excel at PE, you won't get bullied for that, and probably not hard science either, but about nearly anything else ...
The explanation here towted is likely to acerbate bullying of pupils that excel.
How many don't feel they have a free pass on bullying a narcissist?
6:25 People who look for a pervasive pattern in this will find it.
I have a low opinion of mainstream academia? I think I can contribute to overthrow a paradigm?
Well, I must have a very _high_ opinion of myself, mustn't I?
It couldn't be I simply have a very _low_ opinion of certain academic paradigms?
It couldn't be that I took them on, partly as a hobby and partly because I knew where my enemies were in Sweden?
Well, if you pervasively look away from explanations like that, you will pervasively find patterns of narcissism in me.
With 1270 readers in France, per day, how many are doxxing me for possible signs of narcissism?
There are obviously other contexts where a pervasive dissatisfaction with someone will lead to pervasive attempts to document a pervasive pattern of grandiose self esteem and so on ...
This is not science, because this is the thing that enemies can find _if they want to._
What about covert narcissism?
❤️
11:07 How many would be trying to document that, if I, when I beg, busk, when I busk, I do that with showing my blog URL's?
I do not get _anxious_ at such a person not taking my story, I am _irritated_ at getting my time stolen by a jerk who wants to prove I am a narcissist.
If he simply isn't interested, I'm fine with that, as long as he doesn't feel an excessive need to chat in a very empty pretense, most of the time, to make my acquaintance about other things.
The blogs are what I offer for the money. Telling me that gesture is narcissistic is not therapy, it's robbery of my actual livelihood and of what I hope to get done to get off the street.
But in a psychologic and psychiatric setting _any_ irritation can be analysed as masked anxiety ...
1) Best indicator is parent-child incest. Not to say that all narcissists are incestuous, however... a narcissist is sexually aroused by his own image. Explicitly, he masturbates in front of a mirror or camera. In cases of extremely controlling narcissist parents, their own flesh and blood becomes an extension of themselves as objects of titillation.
2) Another way to know is in how you adapted as a child. Did you learn to tune out your parent's exhausting gravitas? To become a bit cold and emotionally aloof? Did you then learn how easily a narcissist is manipulated? Congratulations: you've followed the usual recipe to becoming a psychopath.
3) It doesn't end at blame. Because victimization is in proportion to damage. All victims are damaged. And long term damage is in proportion to the lifetime dysfunction it causes. You can't claim victimization without acknowledging you have a problem. You break the cycle by stopping the generational problems you carry from continuing in any form.
The one guy from the Canadian March for life is so full of himself, closest thing to narcissist I’ve heard about.
This reminds me of how everyone says they have a.d.d/a.d.h.d but have never been to a psychiatrist to be diagnosed and never had an IEP in the school and/or never took medication for it. Just couldn’t concentrate one day and self diagnosed lol 😂
Those with NPD never self-diagnose. Those who self-diagnose don't have it.
It seems...typo
So many shrinks throw the “narcissist” word around because they understand it so well. Snarky, I know. And not applicable to many, many wonderful therapists, but still … the bad ones seem to be on the rise.
2nd comment I’m raging it’s not fair I blame TH-cam and others!
Did I miss the part about blaming the parents for everything?
You know, sociopathy/psychopathy/narcicissm are big terms today, but imagine for the past two thousand years there has always been cluster B personalities among the world's population.
He said he has a “popular book coming out this summer?” Can someone explain to me how f this statement means some other than “a book that is popular”? Liked by lots of people? Am I missing something?
Probably "as opposed to scholarly." That's what academics usually mean by "popular;" written for a non-specialist audience.
Here's the diagnostic criteria: everyone you know working in finance
Sounds like a bit of Karen Horney’s work.
If narcissism is a result of a lack of love and validation in childhood, did God just didn't loved Lucifer enough? I don't think so. It is a spiritual issue first. Every moment we have free will to turn to sin (me as my own "god") or to God, and that choice becomes especially relevant when we are wounded. Christ on the Cross is the essence of that. Since we have fallen in nature, we easily turn for the first. Some children don't even know there is an option. It is important to teach children that all humans, even their parents, are fallen human beings and that if they feel unloved by their parents, God loves them, God wants them, and their validation and worth are in God. That it is good (God) and evil in this world, and that every man has free will to choose.
A lot of narcissist in youth groups, especially the singers. It breeds narcissistic cults.
Christ showed us the way, we transcend our wounds by not reacting anymore. The wounds show the resurrection and God’s glory!
We have raised a generation of narcissists it. Seems by that DSM definition and have institionalized it in academia a politics. We need to enact term limits and end tenure to counter this in the culture. We must encourage meritocracy in our institutions.
Okay, I am very much not an expert, but I think narcissism tends to be so much more mundane than that power hungry, institutional climber presented by what you read.
An example: a prison guard was in a potentially life-threatening conflict where an inmate was raging. He tries to process what happened with his father. Instead of thinking about the event with him, is father immediately begins to go off on all the petty disagreements in his men’s club, without realizing how incomparable the situation is and that he is ignoring the issue his son was hoping to process.
There are many persons who are like that petty father, who don’t have dreams of ruling the world, but who certainly could not recognize their sons were in a dangerous work situation or who have the compulsion to cloud out whatever their son suffered with complaining about their own problems.
Is there another name for a personality regularly showing comparable traits?
I am not sure if you recognize how tone deaf these series of videos are, it does not talk about the concept of biblical reconciliation. This is nothing more than modernism with some Jesus speak sprinkled on it.
He'd be better off using Father Ripperger's Introduction to the Science of Mental Health than that garbage modernist piece of trash guide book. The DSM 5 belongs in the dumpster not on the desk.
Fr Ripperger doesn’t provide criteria for diagnoses in his book, how could a real psychologist not utilize the DSM? The doc has a Theology degree too, perhaps he knows how to eat the meat and spit out the bones?
@@abbigailpandl1052 what the hell kind of question is that? Since when has the psychological profession actually cured anyone? And any instruction manual that says genital mutilation is a solution to a mental disorder and changes on the whims of politics is a bullshit manual.