Roscoe is spot on about getting a good pre-purchase inspection done. When I delivered my Tiger to Fletchair in sept 17 for a performance problem and a couple of tiny fuel leaks they discovered my horizontal stabilizer bracket was cracked in three places. A good grumman shop would have found this on the pre-purchase inspection.
We are seriously considering the purchase of a 1973 AA-5 that is currently owned by a friend of ours. We also have a friend that's an A&P. A blessing really! Really happy to see such a channel, as I'm sure it will come in handy in the very near future. Of course...SUBSCRIBED and will now binge watch all of your videos referencing the AA-5.
OMG! Thank God you guys caught all this. Shady workmanship to say the least. Annual? Like 20 yrs ago. It’s a miracle that the owners of this plane didn’t die.
You would be amazed. I'm trying to buy a Citabria right now, and I'm such a fool, I'm asking the seller for the logbooks while somebody else is writing a check. I've missed out on 5 or 6 by now.
Join the club, I bought my Traveler in 1991 from a mechanic and it came with a fresh annual! First annual the inspection covers still had paint on the screws unbroken from being painted 2 years ago. Some annual.
Are most corrosion issues mostly with the older 70s built Tigers? I thought I read that 90s run and 2000s run of Tigers had improved corrosion protection.
I’m in the process of buying a 76’ cheetah. We’ll fly it to FletchAir for prebuy. They want it for 2 days to do a proper inspection which isn’t practical for us. Can a good prebuy be done in 1 day?
Except for time. Two to Three years for a Zenith. But if you have the time go for it. But What do you want Slow or Fast? To each there own path. Experimental is growing very very Fast but you will spend a lot on Building your own. And time. But it will be new. And you will learn a lot.
I’m a Canadian AME (aircraft mechanic) but I don’t have any experience on Grumman aircraft. I’m looking for an expert to do a pre-purchase or at least guide me through the process.
Depends, WAY more important is to make sure the Pre-Purchase is done by someone with NO Ties to the seller, Broker, or anyone who had regularly worked on the aircraft in the past. the Savvy Aviation channel on YT Addresses Pre-Buys, and what to look for, as well as what to run away from
This is exactly why something like a Kitfox is becoming more attractive to new pilots. Much closer scrutiny means it is harder for shit like this to fly.
You took the words right out of my mouth. That's the way I'm leaning. Kitfox or a Rans S-7 or S20. Built it yourself, and you have a brand new airplane that you know every inch of, and every nut and bolt. There are a lot of older airplanes out there flying, that are a accident waiting to happen. Sad, but True!!!!!
Why are 30+ year old airplanes even available for sale. They should be in the junkyards. Airframes do not have unlimited life expectancies. Why isn't the FAA cracking down on the junk for sale? Because they are paper pushers. Why isn't the logbook accurate? Because there is no oversight worth a squat. Might as well call it a fake book. Did you think an outstanding airplane was going to be for sale for 35k? Cheap for a reason. Because there are always chumps looking for cheap. FAA could care less. Lip service and paper pushing.
If they are getting real inspections every year of flight, then they are safe. However you are correct that a lot have many holes in their paperwork and the FAA the last few years is addressing that,
Roscoe is spot on about getting a good pre-purchase inspection done. When I delivered my Tiger to Fletchair in sept 17 for a performance problem and a couple of tiny fuel leaks they discovered my horizontal stabilizer bracket was cracked in three places. A good grumman shop would have found this on the pre-purchase inspection.
Right on
WOOOOWWWW ! I don't know if I want a Grumman now. Thanks for sharing this informative video
Grumman are great planes. This one just hadn't been properly maintained
Many other types suffer from this as well
Glad you liked it
We are seriously considering the purchase of a 1973 AA-5 that is currently owned by a friend of ours. We also have a friend that's an A&P. A blessing really!
Really happy to see such a channel, as I'm sure it will come in handy in the very near future.
Of course...SUBSCRIBED and will now binge watch all of your videos referencing the AA-5.
Thanks for the kind words. Enjoy them all!
The only Grumman Shop that I know of is Fletchair. Please enlighten us if there is more.
There are more, Us at Yankee Aviation, Jimmy at Mid Atlantic Yankee Aviation, and Cascade aviation in 7S5, Oregon.
Plus one for everyother year or so getting the annual performed by a Grumman specalist!
Yep
Surprising that the owner got 18 years of service out of this Cheetah.
Planes are over engineered for their work. Lots of safety built in, but you have to inspect them to make sure.
OMG! Thank God you guys caught all this. Shady workmanship to say the least. Annual? Like 20 yrs ago. It’s a miracle that the owners of this plane didn’t die.
Glad you liked it
There are still a unbelievable amount of pilots out there who buy airplanes without a Pre-buy Inspection.
I know
You would be amazed. I'm trying to buy a Citabria right now, and I'm such a fool, I'm asking the seller for the logbooks while somebody else is writing a check. I've missed out on 5 or 6 by now.
@@jjohnston94 Oh I believe it, they are a hot item right now. Best of luck finding one
When I bought my first plane, I though buying it from a mechanic was a good idea and did not get a prepurchase. First annual was fun.
Join the club, I bought my Traveler in 1991 from a mechanic and it came with a fresh annual! First annual the inspection covers still had paint on the screws unbroken from being painted 2 years ago. Some annual.
Pardon me, my jaw is on the floor here somewhere and I need to go look for it.
It does happen occasionally, FYI, this was an extreme case with multiple wrongs, that is why it is out as a warning video.
Can these spars be replaced? Will this airplane ever fly again? Can you find enough replacement parts?
My guess is it would been more costly to fix than it was worth, I dont see anything saying what happen as it was years ago.
Yes they can figure 4 - 5 man days of work to do.
It almost looks like this guy repaired it in his garage and then sold it
May have been the case, so get a good inspection prior to purchase.
@@GrummanPilots what's the best way to pick a flight school or is there any one thing that you really need to watch out for
I'm thinking of buying an AA1A in Virginia, do you know of anyone out there who can do a pre purchase? The plane looks cherry! But I want to make sure
Virginia is only 2 hours away by flight, bring the plane to us at KHAO.
@@GrummanPilots
Thank you ... however the seller just dropped off the radar and wouldn't respond... not sure why so I'm gonna keep looking
I'm pretty sure this plane was a couple flights away from mid air disassembly.
Maybe
Are most corrosion issues mostly with the older 70s built Tigers? I thought I read that 90s run and 2000s run of Tigers had improved corrosion protection.
They did from 1978 on. AGAC used the wrong salt solution to make the fabric fire resistant and that caused corrosion inside.
I’m in the process of buying a 76’ cheetah. We’ll fly it to FletchAir for prebuy. They want it for 2 days to do a proper inspection which isn’t practical for us. Can a good prebuy be done in 1 day?
Not if you want to look everywhere and see it all. We tell folks 17-23 hours depending on condition of their plane.
@@GrummanPilots Thank you for your reply. I’ll have to see if I can make a 2 day prebuy inspection work out.
Absolutely! Possibly the less maintenance prone aircraft in it's Time
Building a new experimental sounds better and better...
Except for time. Two to Three years for a Zenith. But if you have the time go for it. But What do you want Slow or Fast? To each there own path. Experimental is growing very very Fast but you will spend a lot on Building your own. And time. But it will be new. And you will learn a lot.
That is an option
How does the FAA see this and not go back to the shop that did the annual? Big fine, pull the license, whatever?
They may have a hard time finding the owner or mechanic responsible.
@@GrummanPilots Someone signed it, no?
@@mitchfountain6523 Yes someone did.
Can you put that airplane back together now that you took it apart? If so why? knowing so many problems
Yes
Do you offer services in Canada?
We could if need be.
@@GrummanPilots Great. I’ll get in touch if I end up buying one.
I’m a Canadian AME (aircraft mechanic) but I don’t have any experience on Grumman aircraft. I’m looking for an expert to do a pre-purchase or at least guide me through the process.
Do any sellers refuse a pre-purchase inspection? I mean, what percentage of sellers refuse?
Lately in this market several do. Someone will offer money right there, get the keys and paperwork and go.
@@GrummanPilots Can a good inspection be accomplished via a borescope? I mean to identify potential issues without a complete teardown.
@@chrisrains2316 Not completely, some things need the tear down to be seen.
Looks like off the book "home maintenance" to me? scary.
Happens all the time. Cost of annuals play a big a big part just the way it is
Some folks are really happy with 25o dollar annuals.
That's crazy. Criminal endangerment.
No it is not
I agree
Wow that must have been parked on the beach
Nope
Scary!
Happens more than we know.
Could the next of kin take the person that did this hack work to court!
The owner is around but here in the USA anyone can sue, but you end up spending all your money with the lawyers.
They wanted a cheap annual and they got one
If there was an accident, the repair shop, if they could be tracked via receipts, would be liable.
@@Bonnell65 Not always true. As in all things Proof Proof
"Nothing was documented in the logbooks." Hmmm. Is this a surprise?
No really, but we see planes that someone should have called out the errors prior to us.
is buying a Grumman today worth it? How Much is a Pre Purchase?
Usually in the neighborhood of 600 to 800 ish
Depends, WAY more important is to make sure the Pre-Purchase is done by someone with NO Ties to the seller, Broker, or anyone who had regularly worked on the aircraft in the past. the Savvy Aviation channel on YT Addresses Pre-Buys, and what to look for, as well as what to run away from
Always
@@sirtraineewhat576 Not as terrifying as I imagined. Is that price holding?
Wow, that was a bad accident waiting to happen.
YES
This is exactly why something like a Kitfox is becoming more attractive to new pilots. Much closer scrutiny means it is harder for shit like this to fly.
If you build a new plane you can take care of it your self/ a lot of guys avoid annuals for years at a time.
You took the words right out of my mouth. That's the way I'm leaning. Kitfox or a Rans S-7 or S20. Built it yourself, and you have a brand new airplane that you know every inch of, and every nut and bolt. There are a lot of older airplanes out there flying, that are a accident waiting to happen. Sad, but True!!!!!
@@ctsteve1967 You still need to do an annual conditional inspection, essentially the same as an Annual for a certified Aircraft
One option
holy cow that planes a write off. probably 20k plus to fix :(
maybe
It happens
Lucky the plane didn't come apart in flight!!
Yes
Another requirement for buying an airplane: a head exam, preferably by a licensed psychiatrist.
Same can be said for boats!
Jeez. Hope this plane got put in the shredder or donated to a A&P school so students can practice breaking stuff.
The plane did get scrapped for parts.
People that sold it should be in jail
Why would you say that. Buyer Beware as always
FAA Tried to find them. See "A Brief History of Roscoe" video for an update. Right side of the living.
And yet the owner flew it for 18yrs. Fix it. Keep it flying.
I know
Why are 30+ year old airplanes even available for sale. They should be in the junkyards. Airframes do not have unlimited life expectancies. Why isn't the FAA cracking down on the junk for sale? Because they are paper pushers. Why isn't the logbook accurate? Because there is no oversight worth a squat. Might as well call it a fake book. Did you think an outstanding airplane was going to be for sale for 35k? Cheap for a reason. Because there are always chumps looking for cheap. FAA could care less. Lip service and paper pushing.
If they are getting real inspections every year of flight, then they are safe. However you are correct that a lot have many holes in their paperwork and the FAA the last few years is addressing that,
Junk yard.
I would take that Airplane
Yep, parts now