Nice info. If I may: A reed out of the box has to be humidified... not by your saliva which contains enzymes that will digest the cane, but with lukewarm water. And also adjust the plane that sits on your mouthpiece nicely. Meaning the ReedKeek or rub the reed on a piece of paper, which is fine abrasive in a rounded motion about 100 times on a plane surface like a glass table...you can do it often on the the same reed that you played on, clean it up after playing, alcohool will help, because your saliva enzymes are still digesting the fiber of the cane, put it back on the mouthpiece and tight it softly with your ligature so the reed ''understands'' your mouthpiece. Tomorrow you have a nice perfect sitting reed ready to play all those exercises and the show coming. (just a 40 years of experience playing the saxophone!) Hope this helps
I tried all brands... Hemke, Vandoren, Rico, Alexander... they all come from the same place (arundo donax), some of them have better cuts. I never play a reed I did not worked on a bit. Look at them reeds with a bright light behind, you will see parts that are darker... equalize with ReedKeek or a sharp knife.
This is an excellent and understandable talk on reeds. In my opinion every musician should learn to work on reeds. Tom Ridenour has the ATG system which really explaines how to get a reed to work. In a box of 10 we must remember that each portion of the cane gets a different amount of sun, rain, and other elements. This can be overcome by being an expert reed maker. If the cane is good quality we should be getting 8 out of 10 reeds to play pretty well.
Thanks for the video. It's good to mention how to approach those red marked reeds. If it is a left to right asymmetry issue, reed geek or play test and sand the side that is stuffy, etc. can help to move those from red to amber or even green, and if it is too much thickness overall then sanding in areas of 2,3, 5, etc as mentioned in Larry Teal handbook can make a stiff reed more playable on a particular mouthpiece. I always find it useful to have a couple of other good mouthpieces one with a bit more closed tip and one a bit more open tip. If a reed is good (enough heart, symmetrical, etc.) but slightly in the thin side then playing it on the more open tip could be just fine, and the same for a stiffer reed that is symmetrical, could be fine in the slightly more closed tip mouthpiece. Learning to evaluate and tweak reeds is a good knowledge and it becomes a path of saving money and reducing the frustration for the players. I suggest any sax player look into how much oboe players have to deal with reeds constantly and they just accept it as part of the oboe playing practice. It's definitely much less for a single reed player so get on it, and try to build up the knowledge and logic around it. Read Larry Teal's handbook part about reed and try to use analogy to judge why a reed is not playing perfectly for that mouthpiece. There are general rules on how the contour of a reed is supposed to match the facing curve of a mouthpiece and the tip opening. Use a feeler gauge and glass gauge to investigate your mouthpiece and the reed on the mouthpiece. If a reed cut is longer (heart farther from tip and slightly thicker in the tip like Java green, it plays differently on a shorter facing curve mouthpiece and perhaps it may result in feeling stuffy, thin, and not efficient, but in a longer facing curve mouthpiece feels efficient and vibrates better and produces fuller sound, and the same with shorter cut reed (heart closer to the tip like Vandoren traditional) feels more efficient with shorter facing curve or smaller tip opening for a medium facing curve, etc. etc. I might have not given accurate information here but my whole point is to know the tendencies so if X reed is not working for your Y mouthpiece, you can use analogy to know what to try next based on the tendencies.
This is very informative. Thanks! Just today I played I played a Vandoren traditional #2, a Select Jazz 2 hard, a Vandoren Java green 2 1/2 and a Vandoren Jazz ZZ 2 1/2 and they all played very well out of the box (soaking them in water), all played very similarly. I was using a Meyer 6M mouthpiece on Alto
I've used the ATG System for years and can turn most duff reeds into good players. The key principle of this technique is you're sanding the reed against the grain and play testing/evaluating at each stage. As for soaking reeds, I just use a straight sided glass of water and 'stick' the flat side of the reed to the side of the glass until the tip straightens out. A dry reed will have a straight tip. Partially soaked it will develop a wavy tip. Full soaked it will be straight again.
Your explanation of the reed strength numbering method is an eye opener. I believe I have been going about it the wrong way - wrong thought process. Are you saying that if one has the ability to blow with a lot of pressure and for an extended time, one should start with a higher number?? I would like to be able to play softly, and would like to be able to produce the low tones easier than I do now. I just discovered yesterday that it seems my best playing is on a Rico Orange box, 1.5. I have Vandoren Blue box number 2 and they seem to be difficult. I am using a Rico Granfonite A3 mouthpiece for all reeds. Thanks again for the videos.
12:15 The first time that I hear that a dark sound is also a focused one. The general consensus here is that a horn can sound dark OR focused but not dark and focused. The "darkness" comes from the lesser amount of high freq. content of the sound. And the "focus" comes from (you guessed it) a higher amount of high freq. content.
I really LOVE that Jim comes from an oboe playing background. As an oboist myself, I often encounter sax players who double oboe, but almost never the other way 'round. I can so easily understand his take on sax reeds since we share that original frame of reference. I have to admit, though, that my oboe-reed-making background has been more of a hindrance then a help when it comes to adjusting sax reeds. When I consider what would be an obvious fix on an oboe reed and try to apply it to a sax reed the result is almost always a disaster. Hence i have adopted a different sorting approach. Rather than Jim's "traffic light" system, I use "pass-fail". If the reed doesn't play for me right away, I throw it into a box, and every couple of weeks I bring the box to work and let the "real" sax players decide if they want to try and work on them or not. Granted, I only get 3 or 4 out of a box of 10, but then I no longer have the urge to climb a tower with an M-16 and start shooting, either.
Josh, yes a background on OBOE. Clt & Sax reeds are easy. 1.Underside flat on M/piece, no leaks there. 2. Adjustments smooth & longer, no gouging. 3. Sax reeds are easier to Balance. My Oboe teacher taught interpretation as well. She was the best. She has passed on now but I think of her when I pick up a reed. My Tnr set up = Meyer 5M with 2-3 Rio Royal or Vandoren. If the gig wants it louder provide mic. In the 1970s we did the hard reed/open m/piece to compete with Guitars. No longer necessary. Josh, keep going like this old bloke. All the best to you.
@@derycktrahair8108 Really appreciate that you took the time to answer. Your comments were very helpful, especially the bit about smooth and LONGER. That made an immediate difference. Still not having unqualified success, but I least I can now begin to understand where I screwed up. Will probably not devote huge amounts of time, and most of the reed section would soon be homeless if they had to buy their own reeds instead of using my castoffs, but understanding a little bit more about what's going on is very satisfying. Thanks again for taking the trouble. For the record...my setup is very similar to yours; old (1970's...bought new if you can believe that, I seem to be really OLD) Link 6 and strength 3 V16s.
You have a lovely, pleasant vibe about you. You have an amazing quality in your voice, knowledge, giving great information. ' Impatient me' watched the whole video. I subscribed your TH-cam channel and LIKED your FB page. Thank you.
I believe you and your description is amazing - but with so many setups, I would like this so much more if you had a player playing that combination that you mention. I feel like if you did this, you could go from 90K subscribers to 500K subscribers because you could make it not only accurate with more players, but also funny, which is why people subscribe.
Andre Larl Spoons there isn’t anything wrong with vandoren traditional reeds. I know many many musicians who use vandoren traditional on sax. Personally I use a legere synthetic but I always keep a spare box of vandoren traditional just in case
Chris Malkus nah man vandoren acts like they have all of there reeds from France but they are really just expensive recos. I used traditional myself when I was in school but after trying a bunch of reeds I pretty much only use legre synthetic and vandoren zzs now. If you like them that is fine but in those packs there is always shit consistency
Joshua Redman was asked in an interview, "what are the best reeds" ? He replied "there aren't any" perhaps not completely true, but we are cursed as reed players 😏
I'm wondering how they categorize what is 1.5 vs. 2 if it is the same cut and only stiffness is different. Seem a lot of loose quality judging thing so how could they make such fine categorization? Do they use a device to measure stiffness prior to categorizing or even cutting? Do they use different part of the cane to target this issue?
They do measure the pliability of the reed. They are all the same cut. There is video about the process here on TH-cam. Think it was D'Addario who produced the video.
The "stiffness" is exactly what makes it a different grade. The quality is different because cane is organic, you would have to go down to the very microscopic level and reject more than half of the reeds to be absolutely consistent. Machines cut the reeds and so one strength will be cut all day on one machine.
After a break for several years due to illness of blowing my sax what reed strength of reed do I need to start from again. I always used Selmer reeds. V??
Now I'm slightly confused. Reed numbers equal resistance not "strength" or thickness. So what properties of the reed - fiber density, length etc - determine the reed's resistance? Knowing that might help a player understand what's going on in the reed and possibly enable him to make adjustments.
Sorry Jim I disagree with you about reeds and air pressure. You are right that harder isn't better., but strength of reed makes NO difference to air flow. It needs a tighter embouchure.
tighter embouchure shouldn't ever be the answer, since in general a tighter embouchure on saxophone equals a pinched tone. air pressure and tongue position are the main things
Mark Tyler that's a super specific scenario that really isn't going to happen often. a new student shouldn't ever have to play on a five, because it isn't the reed for them. embouchure strengthens over time, so throwing them into the deep end wouldn't make sense
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Super important topic usually NOT taught to beginners, quashing their initial efforts! Bravo, thank you! Rocket 🚀
Nice info. If I may: A reed out of the box has to be humidified... not by your saliva which contains enzymes that will digest the cane, but with lukewarm water. And also adjust the plane that sits on your mouthpiece nicely. Meaning the ReedKeek or rub the reed on a piece of paper, which is fine abrasive in a rounded motion about 100 times on a plane surface like a glass table...you can do it often on the the same reed that you played on, clean it up after playing, alcohool will help, because your saliva enzymes are still digesting the fiber of the cane, put it back on the mouthpiece and tight it softly with your ligature so the reed ''understands'' your mouthpiece. Tomorrow you have a nice perfect sitting reed ready to play all those exercises and the show coming. (just a 40 years of experience playing the saxophone!) Hope this helps
I tried all brands... Hemke, Vandoren, Rico, Alexander... they all come from the same place (arundo donax), some of them have better cuts. I never play a reed I did not worked on a bit. Look at them reeds with a bright light behind, you will see parts that are darker... equalize with ReedKeek or a sharp knife.
@Real Royal Matrix exactly. All this stuff is useful, but the most important is you and your playing
0
K8
probably
This is an excellent and understandable talk on reeds.
In my opinion every musician should learn to work on reeds. Tom Ridenour has the ATG system which really explaines how to get a reed to work. In a box of 10 we must remember that each portion of the cane gets a different amount of sun, rain, and other elements. This can be overcome by being an expert reed maker. If the cane is good quality we should be getting 8 out of 10 reeds to play pretty well.
Thanks for the video. It's good to mention how to approach those red marked reeds. If it is a left to right asymmetry issue, reed geek or play test and sand the side that is stuffy, etc. can help to move those from red to amber or even green, and if it is too much thickness overall then sanding in areas of 2,3, 5, etc as mentioned in Larry Teal handbook can make a stiff reed more playable on a particular mouthpiece. I always find it useful to have a couple of other good mouthpieces one with a bit more closed tip and one a bit more open tip. If a reed is good (enough heart, symmetrical, etc.) but slightly in the thin side then playing it on the more open tip could be just fine, and the same for a stiffer reed that is symmetrical, could be fine in the slightly more closed tip mouthpiece. Learning to evaluate and tweak reeds is a good knowledge and it becomes a path of saving money and reducing the frustration for the players. I suggest any sax player look into how much oboe players have to deal with reeds constantly and they just accept it as part of the oboe playing practice. It's definitely much less for a single reed player so get on it, and try to build up the knowledge and logic around it. Read Larry Teal's handbook part about reed and try to use analogy to judge why a reed is not playing perfectly for that mouthpiece. There are general rules on how the contour of a reed is supposed to match the facing curve of a mouthpiece and the tip opening. Use a feeler gauge and glass gauge to investigate your mouthpiece and the reed on the mouthpiece. If a reed cut is longer (heart farther from tip and slightly thicker in the tip like Java green, it plays differently on a shorter facing curve mouthpiece and perhaps it may result in feeling stuffy, thin, and not efficient, but in a longer facing curve mouthpiece feels efficient and vibrates better and produces fuller sound, and the same with shorter cut reed (heart closer to the tip like Vandoren traditional) feels more efficient with shorter facing curve or smaller tip opening for a medium facing curve, etc. etc. I might have not given accurate information here but my whole point is to know the tendencies so if X reed is not working for your Y mouthpiece, you can use analogy to know what to try next based on the tendencies.
This is very informative. Thanks! Just today I played I played a Vandoren traditional #2, a Select Jazz 2 hard, a Vandoren Java green 2 1/2 and a Vandoren Jazz ZZ 2 1/2 and they all played very well out of the box (soaking them in water), all played very similarly. I was using a Meyer 6M mouthpiece on Alto
I wasn't aware there was material enough about reeds for a doctoral thesis. I'm serious, this is science.
What a fantastic video! Thank you so much! Loads of great information and a fantastic presentation!
I've used the ATG System for years and can turn most duff reeds into good players. The key principle of this technique is you're sanding the reed against the grain and play testing/evaluating at each stage.
As for soaking reeds, I just use a straight sided glass of water and 'stick' the flat side of the reed to the side of the glass until the tip straightens out. A dry reed will have a straight tip. Partially soaked it will develop a wavy tip. Full soaked it will be straight again.
i'm surprised i watched this to the end. I found this video very informative. Thanks for the upload!
Very nice and thorough introductory discussion!
Well done Jim, good video.
Excellent information. Many thanks
Your explanation of the reed strength numbering method is an eye opener. I believe I have been going about it the wrong way - wrong thought process. Are you saying that if one has the ability to blow with a lot of pressure and for an extended time, one should start with a higher number?? I would like to be able to play softly, and would like to be able to produce the low tones easier than I do now. I just discovered yesterday that it seems my best playing is on a Rico Orange box, 1.5. I have Vandoren Blue box number 2 and they seem to be difficult. I am using a Rico Granfonite A3 mouthpiece for all reeds. Thanks again for the videos.
This video is great and very informative, thank you!
Very informative and interesting!!
A lot to learn. Thanks!
Very useful and important video. Thanks for this series!!!!
12:15 The first time that I hear that a dark sound is also a focused one. The general consensus here is that a horn can sound dark OR focused but not dark and focused. The "darkness" comes from the lesser amount of high freq. content of the sound. And the "focus" comes from (you guessed it) a higher amount of high freq. content.
As a violist, this is the eternal trade-off. You can have dark and mellow and soft or bright and focused and piercing
I have read some place .That Brandford Manselis uses a Clarinet Reed on his Soprano.
I really LOVE that Jim comes from an oboe playing background. As an oboist myself, I often encounter sax players who double oboe, but almost never the other way 'round. I can so easily understand his take on sax reeds since we share that original frame of reference. I have to admit, though, that my oboe-reed-making background has been more of a hindrance then a help when it comes to adjusting sax reeds. When I consider what would be an obvious fix on an oboe reed and try to apply it to a sax reed the result is almost always a disaster. Hence i have adopted a different sorting approach. Rather than Jim's "traffic light" system, I use "pass-fail". If the reed doesn't play for me right away, I throw it into a box, and every couple of weeks I bring the box to work and let the "real" sax players decide if they want to try and work on them or not. Granted, I only get 3 or 4 out of a box of 10, but then I no longer have the urge to climb a tower with an M-16 and start shooting, either.
Josh, yes a background on OBOE. Clt & Sax reeds are easy. 1.Underside flat on M/piece, no leaks there. 2. Adjustments smooth & longer, no gouging. 3. Sax reeds are easier to Balance. My Oboe teacher taught interpretation as well. She was the best. She has passed on now but I think of her when I pick up a reed. My Tnr set up = Meyer 5M with 2-3 Rio Royal or Vandoren. If the gig wants it louder provide mic. In the 1970s we did the hard reed/open m/piece to compete with Guitars. No longer necessary. Josh, keep going like this old bloke. All the best to you.
@@derycktrahair8108 Really appreciate that you took the time to answer. Your comments were very helpful, especially the bit about smooth and LONGER. That made an immediate difference. Still not having unqualified success, but I least I can now begin to understand where I screwed up. Will probably not devote huge amounts of time, and most of the reed section would soon be homeless if they had to buy their own reeds instead of using my castoffs, but understanding a little bit more about what's going on is very satisfying. Thanks again for taking the trouble. For the record...my setup is very similar to yours; old (1970's...bought new if you can believe that, I seem to be really OLD) Link 6 and strength 3 V16s.
Many good advices, thank you for this video!
I always pre-soak mine in a glass of scotch (or whatever your weapon of choice) and it makes for more relaxed practice.
Thank me later.
I think he was referring to soaking the reeds rather than yourself :P
You have a lovely, pleasant vibe about you. You have an amazing quality in your voice, knowledge, giving great information. ' Impatient me' watched the whole video. I subscribed your TH-cam channel and LIKED your FB page. Thank you.
Mesmerizing
Thank you for a very very important and helpful information !!!
I believe you and your description is amazing - but with so many setups, I would like this so much more if you had a player playing that combination that you mention. I feel like if you did this, you could go from 90K subscribers to 500K subscribers because you could make it not only accurate with more players, but also funny, which is why people subscribe.
Thank you so much for your information
I use a Medium soft reed that's a Fibrecell with a Rovner ligature and it always sounds great.
That's a lot of uploads. I use Vandoren traditional for my clarinets and saxophones
Andre Larl Spoons there isn’t anything wrong with vandoren traditional reeds. I know many many musicians who use vandoren traditional on sax. Personally I use a legere synthetic but I always keep a spare box of vandoren traditional just in case
Nick T vandoren traditional are shitty, inconsistent , and zzs are better
Iceland is Norway Hate the sound with them and they are inconsistent.
Nick T legre synthetic makes me hard. That's s seriously good Reed.
Chris Malkus nah man vandoren acts like they have all of there reeds from France but they are really just expensive recos. I used traditional myself when I was in school but after trying a bunch of reeds I pretty much only use legre synthetic and vandoren zzs now. If you like them that is fine but in those packs there is always shit consistency
nice job
Joshua Redman was asked in an interview, "what are the best reeds" ? He replied "there aren't any" perhaps not completely true, but we are cursed as reed players 😏
yes I have a magic reed. I just cannot get another reed to come up to scratch to it. It's started splitting on one side so I save it for best
What about legere signature?
Very informative. Thanks
I keep my reed on my mouthpiece all the time , it forms a nice tight seal....ready steady Go !!
After a while you’re gonna have mood on your mouthpiece🤮🤮🤮🤢🤢🤢
If you use the listerene make sure its natural not one with colouring as they have sugar in
It's annoying that when I buy a size 3 box four of them are too soft but when I get a 3.5 three of those are too hard.
Yea I have that to
I'm wondering how they categorize what is 1.5 vs. 2 if it is the same cut and only stiffness is different. Seem a lot of loose quality judging thing so how could they make such fine categorization? Do they use a device to measure stiffness prior to categorizing or even cutting? Do they use different part of the cane to target this issue?
They do measure the pliability of the reed. They are all the same cut. There is video about the process here on TH-cam. Think it was D'Addario who produced the video.
The "stiffness" is exactly what makes it a different grade. The quality is different because cane is organic, you would have to go down to the very microscopic level and reject more than half of the reeds to be absolutely consistent. Machines cut the reeds and so one strength will be cut all day on one machine.
Legere reeds are my favorite
Yeah man you got it
After a break for several years due to illness of blowing my sax what reed strength of reed do I need to start from again. I always used Selmer reeds. V??
Start from 2. That's the easiest imo. Kind of late lol
Does that mean you can produce a louder max volume on a strength 5 reed versus a Strength 1.5?
Yes
Also in the sizes on the mouthpiece too! 5c is louder than 4c
Now I'm slightly confused. Reed numbers equal resistance not "strength" or thickness. So what properties of the reed - fiber density, length etc - determine the reed's resistance? Knowing that might help a player understand what's going on in the reed and possibly enable him to make adjustments.
Read about Reed
There are too many variables. It would cost a fortune to try them all.
Sorry Jim I disagree with you about reeds and air pressure. You are right that harder isn't better., but strength of reed makes NO difference to air flow. It needs a tighter embouchure.
Apart from that - great advice.
tighter embouchure shouldn't ever be the answer, since in general a tighter embouchure on saxophone equals a pinched tone. air pressure and tongue position are the main things
That's what everyone says, but try putting a 5 on an alto and maintain the slack 1 1/2 beginner embouchure and see how much sound you get out.
Mark Tyler that's a super specific scenario that really isn't going to happen often. a new student shouldn't ever have to play on a five, because it isn't the reed for them. embouchure strengthens over time, so throwing them into the deep end wouldn't make sense
Of cousre not. But a harder need requires a tighter embouchure - that's my point.
Yah yeah, whatever you say long neck. I'm not gonna sit through 20+ minutes about reeeeds
The needless mean-spiritedness of this made me laugh I admit -- but come on dude, this guy is trying to help!
@sax.co.uk. thanks, this is a very informative video!.
It' would be great if you make video reviewing Legère reeds !! Cheers