In the morality of Pinochetian Minarchism violence is not wrong per se and neither is spending public money on it. However, wasting public money on it is. Public money can be spent but it must be spent wisely.
We used to use these as School Cadets in Australia, some of the high schools up until the mid 1980's used to have their own armoury with Brens, Lee Enfield. 303 rifles, occasionally Owen machine carbines, SLRs and Vickers medium machine guns. Some of them still have .22 rifles these days.
Back in Blighty we had school CCF (combined cadet force) units with roughly similar kit (except Sterlings instead of Owens). My school had Brens, No.4's and No.8's, plus some deactivated drill purpose No.1's. I never got to shoot a Bren though, because "security concerns" took away our functioning Brens and left us only with nonfireable sectioned training versions.
The other night I watched "Siege of Jadotville". This was an instance of Irish UN peacekeepers in the Congo in the early 60s. They stood off a force of around 3000 mercenaries and Congolese Katangan rebels or 5 days while equipped with mostly British small arms. Everything from Lee Engield MkIVs to L1A1s including Bren guns. The Irish unit was 125 men all of who survived.
My father was an Irish UN peacekeeper but served with the 34th Battalion. The Jadotville soldiers were the 35th Battalion. Dad was a Bren Gunner. They had their battles out there as well.
@@72mossy Well at least the whole mission in the Congo was pretty clear cut case of greed on the part of the mining companies. Glad he got home safe. I firmly believe we need an organization such as the UN. But not necessarily this UN.
"V'ait... I s'ink ze British are z'ere in z'at forest... hang on... z'ose are nacht trees!" Still funny, but I thought you could go a little further with it. Cheers, Danny!
I believe this same forest was instrumental in the defeat of the Roman occupiers. Brenadicea was the first to realize the potential of said forest. History-grafting is amazing fun.
The first Carry On film (with William Hartnell, aka the first Doctor) has a great scene where a National Serviceman, after not listening to his DI is tasked to diss/reassemble a Bren. When asked how he managed to do that, he reveals that as a civvie, he works in a factory that makes them...
I remember - it was Bob Monkhouse in a relatively straight role as the romantic lead. The first Police Academy was almost a remake, with Steve Guttenburg as the same character.
I've watched 'Lock, Stock and two smoking barrels' yesterday. "What the fuck's that?" "It's me Bren gun!" Edit: I just checked, it has a drum sight. So it's either a MkI or a MkI Modified.
@@ajaxribaldo bless the nerdology! And AFAIK, none of the post war upfettlements went back to the drum sight, so (if Ian agrees) it's pretty likely that drum sighted BRENs will be the first generation of the thing?
@@Simon_Nonymous I think the version we used in Australian Army Cadets in the late ‘60s was a hybrid of the mark 2, but retained the drum rear sight. Probably a variation done by locally based manufacturer Lithgow Arms.
Ian, since you're talking about Inglis Bren Guns, you might enjoy taking a side trip and look into Veronica Foster. Nicknamed "Ronnie, the Bren Gun Girl", she was Canada's answer to "Rosie the Riveter". She assembled Brens at John Inglis during the war and was featured in tasteful photo stories (we're talking 1940s Canada here) depicting her life as a glamorous munitions worker, jitterbug dancer and homemaker.
I own a deactivated mk2 inglis and its a beatiful gun. Suprisingly heavy so all credit to the chaps who used them and carried them around like they were nothing.
My great uncle was a Bren gunner and he was in the Dieppe landings, so I've always had an interest in this gun. His story gets crazy because he was shot in the head during the war, and it was a German doctor who saved his life and he lived a full long life with a metal plate in his head until he passed in the 90s. As much as I'd like to think I am equally invulnerable to gunfire, I doubt it's genetic.
I got to fire a MK1 modified in the late 1980s. What fun! I found the weapon to be really accurate, and you could put 2 or 3 round bursts down range with almost as effective accuracy as the Lee Enfield rifle it self (on standard leaf sight) With those short bursts you could hit near centre on the targets with 1 or 2 rounds every time. It was so consistent in accuracy, that when the butts staff made the mistake of pointing to where I had been hitting the target before I had actually finished one of the final burst of rounds hit the the triangle end of the pointer. The most entertaining thing that day was when one of the instructors decided he would demonstrate firing the Bren from the hip. The gun was fitted with a sling to hang from the shoulder and he folded out the carrying handle to the straight position. Standing at the 100m range point he loaded a full mag and let rip, Rambo style!! Unlike the movies he seemed to hit everything down range except the targets, the earth banks in front and behind the butts erupted with earth and dust flying everywhere. When the chaos stopped his face was a picture, and another officer on the range point was heard to comment "that's one way to dig the garden". Shortly after that the range radio crackled to life with much colourful language from the butts officer asking what was going on. A day I will never forget.
In 1959 was made Brens mk. II for Italian police in .30-06 Springfield and it is slightly modified. It has longer piston, front grip is not soldered and metal plate on butstock has "wave" to better fit. Charging handle is not foldable, so it's more based on mk II than mk II/1
Brilliant video, my grandfather was at Dunkirk as a lorry driver, once his shiny clean lorry was set on fire he was given a Bren to carry as well as his Enfield, he wasnt happy about this as in his words "the dam thing weighed a ton" in all the confusion grandfathers Bren was "lost" in a ditch to which grandad was put on a charge for losing it. Grandads long gone but i'm sure he would have given a wry smile at the fact so many were lost in the chaos of the Brit withdrawal from France
I did appreciate the researched numbers of Mk 1 s after Dunkirk. I too have seen a lot of part mixes but that's what wars can do. Take Care and Be Safe, John
It’s not often one has the need for the collective noun for a Bren gun. I’m not sure about ’forest’. ‘Nest’ is used for machine guns generally. How about a ‘Chatter’ ?
I have watched well over a hundred of Ian's videos and I need to say that I am not a major fan of guns in general, BUUUUT, the engineering nerd in me is just going biserk over these engineering feats and changes! Just incredible to the brains behind these modifications!!!
I trained on Brens 7.62 Nato conversions in 1975, 3 very vivid memories remain: very early in the training I held my supporting hand under the ejection port and collected quite a few cuts on the palm of my hand. The second one was of a worn gun that had a "runaway" mishap, firing most of the 20 round magazine that remained after a practice live roung attack around my platoon when we assembled after the attack, the gunner fortunately controlled the gun and held the muzzle skyward and nobody got hurt, and thirdly that gun got extremely heavy after a full day of carrying it around. The extra barrel and about 1000 rounds of first line ammunition did not help either, we were 3 members in a machine gun group sharing the load, a gunner number 1, a number 2 and a machine gun group leader, normally a lance corporal who also acted as section second in command. Happy memories from not- so- happy days.
The 303 Bren I used (1950s built) had both the extending bipod legs and the machined holes in the barrel grip/carrying handle. Cocking handle was folding. No rear sling swivel, instead the butt plate had a sling loop.
@@zoiders Ours even still had their packing boxes. I think they remained in service (with reserve infantry only - everyone else used the FN MAG) until around 2001. We used the No4 also up to the mid 1990s.
Mk3 Brens were made until 1961, the Irish Mk3s were mostly dated 1954, 55 and 56. The X10E1 program started in the late 50s with the first conversions being produced in 1958.
Thanks for this an ALL your documentaries! I am not a gun collector, but your analysis gives me insight on the thinking of the the people and military of countries at the time. I did know about the BREN history, but seeing your piece I now have MUCH more appreciation for the BREN!
From 30,000 Berns to 2,300 after Dunkirk makes you realise how badly Britain’s back was against the wall in late 1940. Churchill pulled off a miracle by continuing to resist the Nazis for the betterment of all humanity.
@@kenbrown2808 looking at supposedly middle trim "woods" modern rifle stock and souless plastic of modern military equipments , damn every enlightment on industrial things are taken every warmth in this world.
Thanks Ian, thanks to you, I just discovered that the Bren MK1 that I bought yesterday has an MK2 barrel, retype to the regimental case number... Slightly a shame, because the rest of the gun is an MK1 from 1938, number A2418, one of the very first produced in Enfield... I remain very proud of my purchase despite everything.
I loved my Bren... and LE Mk4, I was more than adequate with LE despite been Left handed and did train myself for the mad minute, it helped being right-eyed. With the Bren... such a comfortable into my shoulder, ...... Happy days in the Irish FCA (Forsaí Cosainta Aituil) equivalent to the British TA in the 1980's.
My late father in law was trained on the Bren between coming back from Italy and going to Normandy. He said the men on his course were at the end of the training required to strip and reassemble the weapon blindfold in a certain time. He carried the Bren until they got to the Dutch border.
Fab. I shot a Bren one time when we went to Bisley (a famous shooting range in southern England) when I was a CCF cadet at school - I don't remember any detail except having shot with Lea Enfields quite a lot prior to the visit to Bisley, I'd got used to the recoil and its effect on my 15 year old wiry frame... the Bren, on the other hand, was just a delight to shoot. I *do* remember that it had the readily recognisable drum rear sight and so conclude that it must have been an early gun.
During my military service (compulsory for everyone at the time), I fired with these two weapons. They were good weapons at 300 meters (+/- 1000 feet) we obtained very good results even in automatic, all the ammunition fired in a square of 20 cm on the side (all in a square of two thirds of a foot). The weapon's remote sighting system was a bit awkward at first.
To clear up the comment on the bi-pod. Inglis used the Bipod Mk3 which Ian shows, they were used on all Inglis Mk2 guns. The bipod, Mk2 was only used on Monotype Mk2 manufactured guns. The Barrel on the Bren Mk3 was the barrel MkIV.
Thanks to Ian for showing me all the shiny things I would otherwise never get to see! I'd love to spend a day at a range with a Bren but that is never gonna happen. This is the next best thing.
We used Mk3 Brens in the 80s (FCA. Ireland). We were told the gas regulator could be adjusted to the larger port to enable the use of .303 from the Lee Enfield No.4 which was our standard issue . The ammunition for the Bren had a different colour ring on the primer. I think the Bren was Red and the Enfield was Green. We were told that the Bren ammunition which was more powerful, would damage a Lee Enfield if fired from it. When firing the Bren it was possible to get groupings similar to the Enfield when firing single shots.
I got a deactivated BREN Enfield MK3 last week and interestingly it's dated 1957, seems weird they were making the MK3 as late as that instead of the L4 (7.62x51mm BREN)
Not weird, not all countries switched to 7.62 NATO. Many foreign contracts wanted .303 guns. Yes we had .303 guns to sell but we wanted to keep the industry going so offered new guns for foreign sales.
yer i never remembered the sight wheel when i commented on the previous vid so it must have been a mk2 its so good you have all 3 variations to show us , thank you Sir ..
in AIF & NZ service the Mk1 Bren updated was stated as being a Mk1/1, these were still being used in .303 with NZ TA regts uptill about 1991, we in Australia used the Mk1 & 2 .303 Brens until the late 1960s when we purchased L4A4 Brens from the UK in the NATO 7.62mm.
I am posting this link to TH-cam not knowing if you already know about. His videos are well worth a watch." Bloke on the range". Keep these videos coming.
Hi, some very good information, unfortunately it stops short as the development went on to the 7.62 mm L4A1 Bren light machine gun, 1957 (c) which saw service well into the end of the 1990’s. By the way, if you ask anyone who carried the Bren for a few years they will all tell you of the damage it caused their neck and shoulders. The gun had no comfortable way it could be carried slung along the shoulder neck area and balanced by holding it steady with one hand. In a sustained fire role in the sixties, I had my No. 2 go deaf when we had fired ten magazines and it was his turn to change barrels! Cheers mate and thanks for taking me down memory lane. Harera
Thanks Ian. I've as always been fascinated by the Bren. And, to a lesser degree the Japanese machine gun of similar look. As I set here the name escapes me. God bless all here.
The Japanese Type 96 and Type 99 Light Machine Gun. A lot of its design was based off the ZB-26/ZB-30 as well, since they captured examples from the Chinese in the 30’s, but it internally functions a lot more similarly to a French Hotchkiss machine gun.
Australia still had Bren's operational in the 80's. By 'operational', they were held in unit armouries for the Rapid Deployment Force, as an alternative to the GPMG's (L7, M60 etc). Interestingly, the RDF also had sufficient Vickers HMG in stores to equip each of the brigade's battalion sustained fire MG platoons, as alternatives to the .50 cals/M60s.
I have a semiauto-converted Mk.I* Bren and both the extending and non-extending bipod I carry in WW2 re-enactments. The extending legs sound great but are actually a pain in the ass when crawling or in situations where you need to push/ pull the weapon into postion when laying on something like a log or sandbags. They catch and extend at the most inopportune times!
What about the 7.62 NATO conversion? There would have been changes to the magazine and barrel obviously. Perhaps other changes such as gas system? Sights?
Yup, Changes to barrel, magazine, guide ribs internally to position the rounds to breach, sights yes but only the calibrated markings, extractor, and ejector. As i recall, perhaps recoil springs. Cross out the old markings and add new designation. Duh, nearly forgot............new sling and a paint job.......bobs your uncle.
Trying to recollect the Brens we had at school in the Cadets. From this video I think they were Mk 1 modified, I can’t remember the dove tail on the side. But I think they had Mk 2 stocks and Mk 1 bipods, I’m sure the legs were adjustable. As they were DP rifles the working parts were an alloy and missing bits like the firing pin and a few other details.
@@m3bobbyball They didn't have the leaf rear sights, they had the drum style you see on the Mk 1. I remember it distinctly from doing the proficiency test.
I wonder if they were L54A1s? They were mainly worn out Mk1 guns. They were the Official DP version with copper washed working parts, half the breech face machines away and a big hole in the side of the barrel, I would post a photo of mine but don’t know if that’s possible on you tube.
@@m3bobbyball Found a video on the L54A1 and that will be the Brens issued to our CCF th-cam.com/video/wlnaNpAP-oA/w-d-xo.html The presenter describes their example as a hodgepodge of parts. The stock looks like the Mk2. The receiver is stamped as a Mk1M, but does have the fluting (5:20) at the front of the receiver. Their receiver does seem to be a bit of a hybrid. Either different armouries were doing slightly different things, or the transition from Mk1 to the final Mk2 went through a number of iterations. Don't remember the guns being sectioned, that could have been done when the weapons went into private hands.
Used to Love shooting the bren, Very nice on the shoulder compared to Simerly chambered rifles. just a shame that some git from HQ found out we still had a live fireing Bren at my cadet branch and he swiped it.
The production of Bren guns nearly got badly disrupted . A V1 came down on the junction of Ordnance Rd and Chesterfield rd. Only a few hundred yards from the Royal Small Arms factory. Miraculously there were only 3 fatalities. One a school teacher in the Junior School a Miss Parnell. Only her hand was found.
Brens still hold a special place in us British's hearts! I finally bought a Bren after wanting one ever since I started to collect militaria. MKI 1941 Lithgow. She's my baby and if I ever have children they will know that they will alway be second place to BRENda!
"Hand fitting operations" The same thing happened with the Rolls Royce Merlin engines; No two were alike until the U.S. came on the scene and applied some good old Henry Ford standardization of all the parts. Needed to get the process down to less than 10 hand fitting steps.
That's why American industry overtook British industry, a British invention, the turret lathe, Which could make.the same thing repeatedly . Where as a craftsman took time to train and each craftsman worked differently.
We need attention to detail, and you Sir gives us all that. Keep up the good work, and we will maintain the huge respect that we have for you. Peace be unto you.
0:33 In Britain, the evacuation from Dunkirk from Dunkirk is always cited as something of a triumph. I guess at that time, we had to make the most of what was a pretty disastrous time for the British Expeditionary Force.
Really pleasant to shoot, the recoil spring absorbed so much of the shock. Only thing was that it 'walked forward' on rapid fire IF you didn't hold on to it securely! 😂
@@webtoedman that is such a non statement. What are you implying that the gun was so flawed it needed replacement? Functionally the mg34 and 42 work the same the 42 was just cheaper and faster to produce. the same way the bren mk2 was faster and cheaper to make than the mk 1 certainly has nothing to do with functionality.
@@comradecosmonaut7746 I can assure you, the MG34 and the 42 "functionality" is indeed different. And yes, the HEER considered the 34 very good but as an interim design.
When I did basic training in 1964 we still had the bren allbeit converted to 7.62. I distinctly remember that the gun was marked BREN Mk IV. This marking was struck through and the new designation stamped on (can't remember the exact lettering). Was it the fact that Mk IVs were never issued as such but were manufactured, converted, and then issued?
Even though all the external parts on the mk2 look different to the mk1 they are still all interchangeable with the mk1,s parts, you see some very mongrel guns knocking about mixing all of the versions. 🙂
It's stated in the official 'list of changes' notifications for the introduction of the Mk.2 that guns could and probably would be assembled from Mk.1 and Mk.2 sub-assemblies as production was coming on line, so the Army shouldn't worry if they start receiving guns with mixed mark components.
I have a little booklet my grandfather kept from his service in the pacific, in the Australian army, in which is recorded items issued to him. There was a period when he was issued 3 bren guns within a month, towards the end of the war. Not sure what he was doing to go through so many bren guns..
"So we might not have got all the brens back." "No worries bound to mislay the odd gun. How many are missing." "All of them." "Well at least you got the tanks back" "Oh that"
“Forest of Bren guns” is a famous location in Elbonia, a real tourist trap though.
Especially the centrally located and over priced Elbonian Cuisine Cafe at the top of Mount Barrel Shroud.
You mean The Doublefeed? It's a nice place. I'm a little surprised that you are being like this about it.
@@philips.5563 Yeah, I stopped off there once, when I was off to hunt bison past Bayonet Mount...
Armalite has one that's similar, but they call it "Stoner Henge."
Is that in the county of Moardakka?
-
OK, I'll fetch my coat!
There's something about guns (and machines in general) going through simplification processes that is just so damn pleasing.
I know what you mean, mechanical evolution through necessity.
"Efficiency is beautiful, efficiency is art."
"A design is finished, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away"
Like Ian stated before "The British did make last ditch rifles, they just made them all in 1941 not 1945"
In the morality of Pinochetian Minarchism violence is not wrong per se and neither is spending public money on it. However, wasting public money on it is. Public money can be spent but it must be spent wisely.
"Forest of Bren guns." That's a good problem to have.
And the smile on his face.👍
Not a good problem if you’re a German in the early 40’s
Well not if you're a German Panzergrenadier making a stroll
@@seppesneyers3592 the only good panzergrenadier is a dead one
Brother I don't think I'd call that so much of a poblem.
We used to use these as School Cadets in Australia, some of the high schools up until the mid 1980's used to have their own armoury with Brens, Lee Enfield. 303 rifles, occasionally Owen machine carbines, SLRs and Vickers medium machine guns.
Some of them still have .22 rifles these days.
How times have changed.😥🇦🇺
Back in Blighty we had school CCF (combined cadet force) units with roughly similar kit (except Sterlings instead of Owens). My school had Brens, No.4's and No.8's, plus some deactivated drill purpose No.1's. I never got to shoot a Bren though, because "security concerns" took away our functioning Brens and left us only with nonfireable sectioned training versions.
Don’t Australian schools need those to defend against the local wildlife though?
@@PitFriend1 remember the Emu wars were fought with Lewes guns and lost.
You must precede me by a lot bloke, i'm an 84 model from a rural town, thus a 303 LE was the coolest thing i wasn't allowed near.
Lets all take a second to appreciate the looks of the BREN..I mean it just looks right.
I agree! :) It looks very solid and dependable, but not too chunky
Looks heavy as fuuu.
Irrelevant question, but you aren't from Finnrand are you
@@LazyLifeIFreak 21 lbs loaded,,, Ihad to carry one a few times lol the L4A4 version that is
Not a fan of top mounted mags, but I have to agree
3:29 “You really don’t need that so [POP] that goes away”
Extremely satisfying pop.
The other night I watched "Siege of Jadotville". This was an instance of Irish UN peacekeepers in the Congo in the early 60s. They stood off a force of around 3000 mercenaries and Congolese Katangan rebels or 5 days while equipped with mostly British small arms. Everything from Lee Engield MkIVs to L1A1s including Bren guns. The Irish unit was 125 men all of who survived.
My father was an Irish UN peacekeeper but served with the 34th Battalion. The Jadotville soldiers were the 35th Battalion. Dad was a Bren Gunner. They had their battles out there as well.
@@72mossy
Well at least the whole mission in the Congo was pretty clear cut case of greed on the part of the mining companies. Glad he got home safe. I firmly believe we need an organization such as the UN. But not necessarily this UN.
Yep he got home safe. Left the army but no jobs. Went working in England during the 60s. He's 81 now.
@@72mossy Cheers to your dad, people like him keep us save, I wish him many more years!
''I think Ze British are in that forest...Wait hang on, those aren't trees.''
"V'ait... I s'ink ze British are z'ere in z'at forest... hang on... z'ose are nacht trees!"
Still funny, but I thought you could go a little further with it. Cheers, Danny!
I believe this same forest was instrumental in the defeat of the Roman occupiers. Brenadicea was the first to realize the potential of said forest. History-grafting is amazing fun.
The first Carry On film (with William Hartnell, aka the first Doctor) has a great scene where a National Serviceman, after not listening to his DI is tasked to diss/reassemble a Bren. When asked how he managed to do that, he reveals that as a civvie, he works in a factory that makes them...
I remember - it was Bob Monkhouse in a relatively straight role as the romantic lead. The first Police Academy was almost a remake, with Steve Guttenburg as the same character.
I've watched 'Lock, Stock and two smoking barrels' yesterday.
"What the fuck's that?"
"It's me Bren gun!"
Edit: I just checked, it has a drum sight. So it's either a MkI or a MkI Modified.
Now that's a brilliant movie.
it appears to have the complicated fluting below the barrel, so it looks like it's the MkI original
@@ajaxribaldo bless the nerdology! And AFAIK, none of the post war upfettlements went back to the drum sight, so (if Ian agrees) it's pretty likely that drum sighted BRENs will be the first generation of the thing?
@@Simon_Nonymous I think the version we used in Australian Army Cadets in the late ‘60s was a hybrid of the mark 2, but retained the drum rear sight. Probably a variation done by locally based manufacturer Lithgow Arms.
I used this as the British "LMG" (Light Machine Gun). Extremely accurate and easy to maintain and run. Loved the thing.
Ian, since you're talking about Inglis Bren Guns, you might enjoy taking a side trip and look into Veronica Foster. Nicknamed "Ronnie, the Bren Gun Girl", she was Canada's answer to "Rosie the Riveter". She assembled Brens at John Inglis during the war and was featured in tasteful photo stories (we're talking 1940s Canada here) depicting her life as a glamorous munitions worker, jitterbug dancer and homemaker.
I own a deactivated mk2 inglis and its a beatiful gun. Suprisingly heavy so all credit to the chaps who used them and carried them around like they were nothing.
so jealous....
@SpyderyAxis88 Yup, that was me, yup she was heavy, and nope we never carried them "like it was nothing"...
But she was an absolute joy to shoot...
I own a deactivated 1943 Mk.1m that still has a removable barrel. It's a lovely piece
My great uncle was a Bren gunner and he was in the Dieppe landings, so I've always had an interest in this gun.
His story gets crazy because he was shot in the head during the war, and it was a German doctor who saved his life and he lived a full long life with a metal plate in his head until he passed in the 90s.
As much as I'd like to think I am equally invulnerable to gunfire, I doubt it's genetic.
I got to fire a MK1 modified in the late 1980s. What fun!
I found the weapon to be really accurate, and you could put 2 or 3 round bursts down range with almost as effective accuracy as the Lee Enfield rifle it self (on standard leaf sight)
With those short bursts you could hit near centre on the targets with 1 or 2 rounds every time.
It was so consistent in accuracy, that when the butts staff made the mistake of pointing to where I had been hitting the target before I had actually finished one of the final burst of rounds hit the the triangle end of the pointer.
The most entertaining thing that day was when one of the instructors decided he would demonstrate firing the Bren from the hip.
The gun was fitted with a sling to hang from the shoulder and he folded out the carrying handle to the straight position.
Standing at the 100m range point he loaded a full mag and let rip, Rambo style!!
Unlike the movies he seemed to hit everything down range except the targets, the earth banks in front and behind the butts erupted with earth and dust flying everywhere. When the chaos stopped his face was a picture, and another officer on the range point was heard to comment "that's one way to dig the garden". Shortly after that the range radio crackled to life with much colourful language from the butts officer asking what was going on.
A day I will never forget.
In 1959 was made Brens mk. II for Italian police in .30-06 Springfield and it is slightly modified. It has longer piston, front grip is not soldered and metal plate on butstock has "wave" to better fit. Charging handle is not foldable, so it's more based on mk II than mk II/1
Brilliant video, my grandfather was at Dunkirk as a lorry driver, once his shiny clean lorry was set on fire he was given a Bren to carry as well as his Enfield, he wasnt happy about this as in his words "the dam thing weighed a ton" in all the confusion grandfathers Bren was "lost" in a ditch to which grandad was put on a charge for losing it. Grandads long gone but i'm sure he would have given a wry smile at the fact so many were lost in the chaos of the Brit withdrawal from France
I love it when Ian “walks me through” firearms.
I did appreciate the researched numbers of Mk 1 s after Dunkirk.
I too have seen a lot of part mixes but that's what wars can do.
Take Care and Be Safe, John
It’s not often one has the need for the collective noun for a Bren gun.
I’m not sure about ’forest’.
‘Nest’ is used for machine guns generally.
How about a ‘Chatter’ ?
Or if youre on the other end, a Hurt of Bren Guns.
I immediately thought of "A suppression of Brens" for a collective noun. I think I like Chatter better :)
A murder of bren guns? Like a murder of crows?
A battery of Brens?
More like a chunter than a chatter, perhaps.
I have watched well over a hundred of Ian's videos and I need to say that I am not a major fan of guns in general, BUUUUT, the engineering nerd in me is just going biserk over these engineering feats and changes! Just incredible to the brains behind these modifications!!!
I trained on Brens 7.62 Nato conversions in 1975, 3 very vivid memories remain: very early in the training I held my supporting hand under the ejection port and collected quite a few cuts on the palm of my hand. The second one was of a worn gun that had a "runaway" mishap, firing most of the 20 round magazine that remained after a practice live roung attack around my platoon when we assembled after the attack, the gunner fortunately controlled the gun and held the muzzle skyward and nobody got hurt, and thirdly that gun got extremely heavy after a full day of carrying it around. The extra barrel and about 1000 rounds of first line ammunition did not help either, we were 3 members in a machine gun group sharing the load, a gunner number 1, a number 2 and a machine gun group leader, normally a lance corporal who also acted as section second in command. Happy memories from not- so- happy days.
Holy crap, i think this is the first forgotten weapons video I've seen with ads in it as well as the pre-play ones.
4 mid roll ads
*Behind forrest of Bren Guns*
"Don't Spandau me, bro" Lindybeige. probably
i hate that video so much haha
The 303 Bren I used (1950s built) had both the extending bipod legs and the machined holes in the barrel grip/carrying handle. Cocking handle was folding. No rear sling swivel, instead the butt plate had a sling loop.
@@zoiders the memory of the weapon I used up to 2001 says otherwise. Unless the date was a random one stamped on the body for shits and giggles.
@@zoiders
I think even the Indians got rid of .303
@@zoiders I didn't live in India or the UK. My manual says we used mk1,2, and 3. I saw the earlier ones in stores but I used a mk3.
@@zoiders Ours even still had their packing boxes. I think they remained in service (with reserve infantry only - everyone else used the FN MAG) until around 2001. We used the No4 also up to the mid 1990s.
Mk3 Brens were made until 1961, the Irish Mk3s were mostly dated 1954, 55 and 56. The X10E1 program started in the late 50s with the first conversions being produced in 1958.
Thanks for this an ALL your documentaries! I am not a gun collector, but your analysis gives me insight on the thinking of the the people and military of countries at the time.
I did know about the BREN history, but seeing your piece I now have MUCH more appreciation for the BREN!
From 30,000 Berns to 2,300 after Dunkirk makes you realise how badly Britain’s back was against the wall in late 1940. Churchill pulled off a miracle by continuing to resist the Nazis for the betterment of all humanity.
Its kind of amazing how many machining operations went into making MGs back in the day, and they didnt even have CNC machines.
@@kenbrown2808 looking at supposedly middle trim "woods" modern rifle stock and souless plastic of modern military equipments , damn every enlightment on industrial things are taken every warmth in this world.
Necessity is the mother of simplification, especially when it comes to firearms.
Thanks Ian,
thanks to you, I just discovered that the Bren MK1 that I bought yesterday has an MK2 barrel, retype to the regimental case number...
Slightly a shame, because the rest of the gun is an MK1 from 1938, number A2418, one of the very first produced in Enfield...
I remain very proud of my purchase despite everything.
I loved my Bren... and LE Mk4, I was more than adequate with LE despite been Left handed and did train myself for the mad minute, it helped being right-eyed. With the Bren... such a comfortable into my shoulder, ...... Happy days in the Irish FCA (Forsaí Cosainta Aituil) equivalent to the British TA in the 1980's.
Why keep the enemy's head down (GPMG/Minimi) when you can blow it right off (BrEn)? A wonderful machine.
My late father in law was trained on the Bren between coming back from Italy and going to Normandy. He said the men on his course were at the end of the training required to strip and reassemble the weapon blindfold in a certain time. He carried the Bren until they got to the Dutch border.
I had the pleasure of firing a Bren MkIII a few times, absolutely loved it, it was eventually replaced by the FN MAG, preferred the Bren to be honest!
The Bren gun is such a lovely thing. It's a treat to see three of them!
I just woke up. It’s going to be a good day.
Was it a good day?
A 'bevvy' of Bren Guns.
The forest of Bren guns is so long that we actually got Ian's family photos in the shot 😄
Fab. I shot a Bren one time when we went to Bisley (a famous shooting range in southern England) when I was a CCF cadet at school - I don't remember any detail except having shot with Lea Enfields quite a lot prior to the visit to Bisley, I'd got used to the recoil and its effect on my 15 year old wiry frame... the Bren, on the other hand, was just a delight to shoot. I *do* remember that it had the readily recognisable drum rear sight and so conclude that it must have been an early gun.
During my military service (compulsory for everyone at the time), I fired with these two weapons.
They were good weapons at 300 meters (+/- 1000 feet) we obtained very good results even in automatic, all the ammunition fired in a square of 20 cm on the side (all in a square of two thirds of a foot).
The weapon's remote sighting system was a bit awkward at first.
To clear up the comment on the bi-pod. Inglis used the Bipod Mk3 which Ian shows, they were used on all Inglis Mk2 guns. The bipod, Mk2 was only used on Monotype Mk2 manufactured guns.
The Barrel on the Bren Mk3 was the barrel MkIV.
The Australian made Bren was the MK1. It was made at Lithgow during WW2.
I never get tired of hearing about the BREN. Glorious piece of kit.
Can we just appreciate how perfect that *pop* was?
Thanks to Ian for showing me all the shiny things I would otherwise never get to see! I'd love to spend a day at a range with a Bren but that is never gonna happen. This is the next best thing.
We used Mk3 Brens in the 80s (FCA. Ireland). We were told the gas regulator could be adjusted to the larger port to enable the use of .303 from the Lee Enfield No.4 which was our standard issue . The ammunition for the Bren had a different colour ring on the primer. I think the Bren was Red and the Enfield was Green. We were told that the Bren ammunition which was more powerful, would damage a Lee Enfield if fired from it.
When firing the Bren it was possible to get groupings similar to the Enfield when firing single shots.
I have a UK-59. Was happy to see it was related to Bren gun.
I got a deactivated BREN Enfield MK3 last week and interestingly it's dated 1957, seems weird they were making the MK3 as late as that instead of the L4 (7.62x51mm BREN)
Not weird, not all countries switched to 7.62 NATO. Many foreign contracts wanted .303 guns. Yes we had .303 guns to sell but we wanted to keep the industry going so offered new guns for foreign sales.
Ian will you be able to show your performance at Brutality?!
Both of those video post Saturday - my M39 run here on Forgotten Weapons, and my WWSD run on InRange.
@@ForgottenWeapons NICE
I was wondering the same thing. I'm glad someone else asked. Ian is great for responding to comments.
@@ForgottenWeapons thank you!
Hey, I just watched lock, stock and two smoking barrels last night.
"Its me bren gun?"
The bren/zb26 design is one of the most underrated LMGs
yer i never remembered the sight wheel when i commented on the previous vid so it must have been a mk2 its so good you have all 3 variations to show us , thank you Sir ..
in AIF & NZ service the Mk1 Bren updated was stated as being a Mk1/1, these were still being used in .303 with NZ TA regts uptill about 1991, we in Australia used the Mk1 & 2 .303 Brens until the late 1960s when we purchased L4A4 Brens from the UK in the NATO 7.62mm.
I am posting this link to TH-cam not knowing if you already know about. His videos are well worth a watch." Bloke on the range". Keep these videos coming.
Hi, some very good information, unfortunately it stops short as the development went on to the 7.62 mm L4A1 Bren light machine gun, 1957 (c) which saw service well into the end of the 1990’s. By the way, if you ask anyone who carried the Bren for a few years they will all tell you of the damage it caused their neck and shoulders. The gun had no comfortable way it could be carried slung along the shoulder neck area and balanced by holding it steady with one hand. In a sustained fire role in the sixties, I had my No. 2 go deaf when we had fired ten magazines and it was his turn to change barrels! Cheers mate and thanks for taking me down memory lane. Harera
He's covering post ww2 brens in a diffrent video.
Thank you Ian as always for this detailed history lesson!
Thanks Ian. I've as always been fascinated by the Bren. And, to a lesser degree the Japanese machine gun of similar look. As I set here the name escapes me.
God bless all here.
The Japanese Type 96 and Type 99 Light Machine Gun. A lot of its design was based off the ZB-26/ZB-30 as well, since they captured examples from the Chinese in the 30’s, but it internally functions a lot more similarly to a French Hotchkiss machine gun.
Australia still had Bren's operational in the 80's. By 'operational', they were held in unit armouries for the Rapid Deployment Force, as an alternative to the GPMG's (L7, M60 etc). Interestingly, the RDF also had sufficient Vickers HMG in stores to equip each of the brigade's battalion sustained fire MG platoons, as alternatives to the .50 cals/M60s.
I have a semiauto-converted Mk.I* Bren and both the extending and non-extending bipod I carry in WW2 re-enactments. The extending legs sound great but are actually a pain in the ass when crawling or in situations where you need to push/ pull the weapon into postion when laying on something like a log or sandbags. They catch and extend at the most inopportune times!
Fired one of these in the sixties in the cadets. Amazing. In single fire it is nicely accurate rather than chucking shots everywhere.
Long time since had my hands on one of those.
Whoever owns the house that Ian is at in this series seems to have enough Brens and SMLEs to equip an entire rfile platoon.
An American at heart, apparently
@@asdasd-ty9se An American in mindset, sure. But surely a Brit at heart to possess that much of king and country's finest.
@@Reddsoldier it’s funny because we stole the concept of men (humans in general nowadays) having the right to possess weapons from the English
My favorite light machine gun. Gotta love the love.
What about the 7.62 NATO conversion? There would have been changes to the magazine and barrel obviously. Perhaps other changes such as gas system? Sights?
Yup, Changes to barrel, magazine, guide ribs internally to position the rounds to breach, sights yes but only the calibrated markings, extractor, and ejector. As i recall, perhaps recoil springs. Cross out the old markings and add new designation. Duh, nearly forgot............new sling and a paint job.......bobs your uncle.
Trying to recollect the Brens we had at school in the Cadets. From this video I think they were Mk 1 modified, I can’t remember the dove tail on the side. But I think they had Mk 2 stocks and Mk 1 bipods, I’m sure the legs were adjustable. As they were DP rifles the working parts were an alloy and missing bits like the firing pin and a few other details.
They would be Mk3 guns.
@@m3bobbyball They didn't have the leaf rear sights, they had the drum style you see on the Mk 1. I remember it distinctly from doing the proficiency test.
I wonder if they were L54A1s? They were mainly worn out Mk1 guns. They were the Official DP version with copper washed working parts, half the breech face machines away and a big hole in the side of the barrel, I would post a photo of mine but don’t know if that’s possible on you tube.
@@m3bobbyball Found a video on the L54A1 and that will be the Brens issued to our CCF th-cam.com/video/wlnaNpAP-oA/w-d-xo.html
The presenter describes their example as a hodgepodge of parts. The stock looks like the Mk2. The receiver is stamped as a Mk1M, but does have the fluting (5:20) at the front of the receiver. Their receiver does seem to be a bit of a hybrid. Either different armouries were doing slightly different things, or the transition from Mk1 to the final Mk2 went through a number of iterations.
Don't remember the guns being sectioned, that could have been done when the weapons went into private hands.
Used to Love shooting the bren, Very nice on the shoulder compared to Simerly chambered rifles. just a shame that some git from HQ found out we still had a live fireing Bren at my cadet branch and he swiped it.
Memories flooding back - I can smell the hot oil even now! Thanks for the video.
The production of Bren guns nearly got badly disrupted . A V1 came down on the junction of Ordnance Rd and Chesterfield rd. Only a few hundred yards from the Royal Small Arms factory. Miraculously there were only 3 fatalities. One a school teacher in the Junior School a Miss Parnell. Only her hand was found.
Coffee with gunpowder and forgotten weapons videos= breakfast of champions and the gun Loving great people of our world! Thanks again ian
I like the way you did this comparison
Brens still hold a special place in us British's hearts! I finally bought a Bren after wanting one ever since I started to collect militaria. MKI 1941 Lithgow. She's my baby and if I ever have children they will know that they will alway be second place to BRENda!
The ammunition box that came with it I believe had 28 magazines hence the 2nd man required who would act as a spotter.
"Hand fitting operations" The same thing happened with the Rolls Royce Merlin engines; No two were alike until the U.S. came on the scene and applied some good old Henry Ford standardization of all the parts. Needed to get the process down to less than 10 hand fitting steps.
That's why American industry overtook British industry, a British invention, the turret lathe, Which could make.the same thing repeatedly . Where as a craftsman took time to train and each craftsman worked differently.
The Bren is a nice one 👌
We need attention to detail, and you Sir gives us all that. Keep up the good work, and we will maintain the huge respect that we have for you. Peace be unto you.
I love the Bren my 2. I have fired the Bren mk2 myself and it’s very easy to use and to handle. I’m from Canada
The mg42 has always been my favorite machine gun but there is just something about the bren that makes it a very close second
In Australia they were called the SLR ie Self Loadin Rifle.
Thank you , Ian .
I watch every video released. No matter the content, as along as it it history based. Another great watch. Keep the videos coming.
0:33 In Britain, the evacuation from Dunkirk from Dunkirk is always cited as something of a triumph. I guess at that time, we had to make the most of what was a pretty disastrous time for the British Expeditionary Force.
Wow Ian, way to alienate your navy viewers by not starting from tip to butt
Holy balls TH-cam. 5 adds in a 12min video? I'm so glad most content creators are leaving this dump
Adblock. 👍
Words cannot describe how much I want a bren gun
Next Generation Of Bren Gun!
Really pleasant to shoot, the recoil spring absorbed so much of the shock. Only thing was that it 'walked forward' on rapid fire IF you didn't hold on to it securely! 😂
Firing a Bren is on my bucket list…for obvious reasons.
You might be able to find Mk.3 at Rifle Factory, Ishapore.
i dont remember if you mentioned how many hours on each bren in the manufacturing they saved nor the cost of the mk1 to mk2
Great video with my morning coffee. Watching this video makes you appreciate the genius design of the German MG over all others..
The MG 34 was so genius that they tried to replace it with the MG42.
@@webtoedman that is such a non statement. What are you implying that the gun was so flawed it needed replacement? Functionally the mg34 and 42 work the same the 42 was just cheaper and faster to produce. the same way the bren mk2 was faster and cheaper to make than the mk 1 certainly has nothing to do with functionality.
@@comradecosmonaut7746 Exactly. There is no genius involved in designing complex and expensive firearms.
@@comradecosmonaut7746 I can assure you, the MG34 and the 42 "functionality" is indeed different. And yes, the HEER considered the 34 very good but as an interim design.
Thanks you again for yet another interesting video (;
I was curious about the new rear sight picture but I am sure to find it somewhere
A forest of Bren guns. Nice.
When I did basic training in 1964 we still had the bren allbeit converted to 7.62. I distinctly remember that the gun was marked BREN Mk IV. This marking was struck through and the new designation stamped on (can't remember the exact lettering).
Was it the fact that Mk IVs were never issued as such but were manufactured, converted, and then issued?
Even though all the external parts on the mk2 look different to the mk1 they are still all interchangeable with the mk1,s parts, you see some very mongrel guns knocking about mixing all of the versions. 🙂
It's stated in the official 'list of changes' notifications for the introduction of the Mk.2 that guns could and probably would be assembled from Mk.1 and Mk.2 sub-assemblies as production was coming on line, so the Army shouldn't worry if they start receiving guns with mixed mark components.
Here’s a shout-out for parts interchangeability!
Will Ian be entering the `Heavy Machine Gun on Tripod` Brutality match ;)
Watch out for the chick passed out on the couch. I know she tends to blend in, but she might be dangerous, if she gets her hands on one.
Any chance on covering the L4 variant in the near future?
You’re content is terrific btw!
I have a little booklet my grandfather kept from his service in the pacific, in the Australian army, in which is recorded items issued to him. There was a period when he was issued 3 bren guns within a month, towards the end of the war. Not sure what he was doing to go through so many bren guns..
"So we might not have got all the brens back."
"No worries bound to mislay the odd gun. How many are missing."
"All of them."
"Well at least you got the tanks back"
"Oh that"
the irish army reserve used the MK3 up until the late 80"s
...and beyond. It was still used it in the early 00's at least up to when the FCA became the RDF .
@@padmundo thanks. I lost track of the years. I’ve fond memories of the bren