So happy to see this conversation. I enjoyed the points about curriculum and how to decide what to learn. I would love to hear thoughts on the Great Books curriculum, and the movement to get back to reading those fundamental books of Western Thought.
"We stand on the shoulders of giants." My main takeaway from Scott's book was that explicitly teaching something works better than expecting a student to figure it out for themselves. It might seem obvious but it was a huge discovery for me.
I did not expect this collab.... yea... ive been leaving bits of message and comments, on other channels, that What Scott has compiled , on some least expect places [ Philosphy, life motivations etc] yes, fear and pain works, up to a certain point, but having. to understand and deliberately do targeted incentives for the brain is much easier on the long run sustenance the Rule of thumb, in life is know who you are , where you are and what you want and the flaws that comes. Once stock take is done, its easier to just [ Copy and paste ], trial and error without stress , and there you can accelerate further and faster .... yes the initial learning curve or mountain to climb and over come is sheer danger, however... the law of nature and physics dont lie, the more practise , the tougher it is, the less stressful when real situation comes u [ learning data on the fly , getting problem solving skills down and fast ]
After watching Scott Young, Benjamin Keep and Justin Sung their content for hundreds of hours I think Justin Sung is not up there with these two. Justin is intentionally making things vague to make people buy his course. You can extract everything you need by watching a lot of hours of his content for free which is cool though. However if you read about his course, people share anonymously that the course is set up to financially abuse the people that take it and then threaten people to sue them if they complain about it. Don't get me wrong I learned a lot from Justin Sung but then moved on to these two giants which have much better content.
@@Entheos84 I will not comment on his course although I have read some of these anonymous reviews. However, I do still think Sung is a great place to start when you want to learn about learning beyond just the usual advice of do active recall and past papers, ignoring the role of encoding in the learning process. But yes he can be vague at times which was super frustrating when you try to watch his earlier videos.
@@herdumptrucks Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that it is a great place to start. The test that you can do to see where your strengths and weaknesses are, when it comes to learning strategies, were unique to me and very helpful. The other test to analyse your current learning strategy has also helped me tweak my learning strategy so he is very helpful in that regard. I was just a little disappointed by the course part. I understand that he has to make a living but I personally would take a different approach to sell what I have to offer. Maybe I am judging too harshly but I just wanted to get it out there. Anyway, completing the trilogy would indeed be cool :)
@@Entheos84 Thanks for your reply as well. 🙂 Yeah I completely agree with you. His recent videos are accessible, have really useful tips and techniques and they communicate his ideas and practices decently but his previous videos used to be super vague and theory heavy to be useful which did sour my opinion of him a bit. Plus, I think all the useful ideas that can be learned from the course can be learned with his free videos and maybe some other free sources too if you want to learn more. There are some really great books, videos and websites out there that are just as helpful, like Benjamin Keep's channel. But I still want to see all three of them interact. It would be interesting.
the big thing in the first 45 minutes was 'you don't know waht you will use' the problem which you are close to but not hitting is the role of abstraction changes in people's minds. lets say some thing is worth learnign because it opens up some opportunity. it the opportunity is not considered relvant before the lecturing occurs then the apathy will supress learning. to motivate students you need to make it seem relevant. for a direct example using trig to find how tall a tree is, might be useful in the future, but to find how high a kite is is not useful. so if the student can't abduce how it is relevant the student wont care.
I love Scott's work but ultimately I found his book disappointing, not because he's a bad writer or he presents bad ideas, far from it, but I think in general the underlying message that can be inferred form the whole body of learning sciences and neuroscience or any adjacent topic is "well, we're not sure how any of this works, and there seems to be outliers that trump everyone else but maybe these techniques might maybe work for you idk" and as a student who disparately wants to improve to expand his capacity for learning and effectiveness this message feels underwhelming. (and of course it's not Scott's fault he's just consolidating the findings) will I ever be able to compete with my objectively high iq peers or will they forever leave me in the dust behind as they beat me across all dimensions. "For those who have everything, more will be given , for those who have nothing, everything will be taken away" until we find the great equalizer of IQ I will continue to indulge in learning science. Thank you Benjamin, great video!
"will I ever be able to compete with my objectively high iq peers" No? Aren't they progressing too? For what exact reason do you think that their abilities are fixed (or, provided that they have higher IQ than you in prior, why should their pace of progression be slower than yours)?
I think perhaps it's not that we don't know things work and which things generally work poorly but that there's a lot of variables that make different things appropriate in particular circumstances which are hard to fully scientifically study. When there are profit incentives involved as in TH-cam people will tend to overpromise and exaggerate the possible results you can get. If you spend a lot of time seeing and hearing those promises, you will be callibrated to be underwhelmed when sincere grounded advice is given. It's probably a slight fallacy to believe other people are just much smarter than you. There are many factors going into any individual's learning outcomes and it sounds like a barrier to yours might be anxiety over success and too much looking for better methods and not enough applying what you know works well. You may also be tired or distracted by other things. Through my life I have had varied outcomes to learning endeavors depending a lot of my circumstances and well being, from exceling to struggling to not trying to trying in spite of living through hell. In my experience the biggest factors are not really specific techniques, most people gravitate toward reasonably effective techniques unless they are really taking a study hack/guru for gospel.
the best explanation as to why it might seem the book is bad at giving concise examples : he himself and most others, are already at [ that level ] one of the chapters which he focuses why genius or highly capable people are the least good at teaching. think ive mentioned on Dr Justin Sung's video before : the insane amount of [ personalized mental short cuts ] are done, when dealing with a problem or a new knowledge. the higher tier tinkers ;/ thinkers are already dissembling the details and grouping or sorting out in their brain i recall one of the MRi scans from studies, found it interesting when patients viewed something they love and like, vs something that bores them the 2nd gen or 3 update of his book should allow, a novice reader, a young adult to read through and write their thoughts throughout the process and supplment it. If anyone finds it lost , mind map Scott's book, and churn it into a AI/ ChatGPT and have it ask those same questions, but base on their role as a learning coach. you will find that, for every new students new to this learning sphere, theres already dozen of genius who found their own solutions after mimicking the current and consolidated strats and answers. it is overwhelming simple and complex, the need for the readers to further expand and find out more for each chapters' take away makes it a bit of a chore for alot of readers is why , i would assume not many could get answers. to quote Bruce Lee : a punch is just a punch when i was a novice, a punch is no longer just a punch but a elaboration of martial skill and fists when i was at a high level. but once mastery of the punch, its just merely a simply punch [ denoting that, after complexities of trying and practising, the movement becomes so efficient and effective, its just another [ simple move ] Same goes for whatever is mentioned on this video, which i hope some of the comments can do a timeline AI breakdown and takeaway haha
To add another tip, whilst listening, do yourself a favor and take down your questions and. thoughts. if there isnt ask, how can this help me, at this time or my current relationship problem or money issues. allow your brain to have some roaming, as it requires both Default Mode Network [ sub concious ] and TPN Task positive Network [ your awareness of what is going on . Theres one youtuber, who is still teaching courses at harvard or cambridge, who made a point, that, any books or materials, written, to create a summary for the first section, of the top page, followed by the next paragraph. Combine those 2 and then add in the last 2nd and final portion of the given reading page. Effort IS required for anything , thats where confidence comes from, knowing what you dont know at a given [ area and space ].
My takeaway is that there is no one right way to learn something, there's only very useful advice. The reason being miscommunication between the researchers, and miscommunication between the researchers and people looking to apply the information.
The collab we’ve all been waiting for!
YESS!!!!!!!
TWO VIDS IN A FEW DAYS!
TWO OF MY FAVOURITE PRODUCTIVITY HACKERS!
So happy to see this conversation. I enjoyed the points about curriculum and how to decide what to learn. I would love to hear thoughts on the Great Books curriculum, and the movement to get back to reading those fundamental books of Western Thought.
Two of my favorite content creators together!
This is crazy good video, I enjoyed the part how you both think that problem solving and learning share the same processes
"We stand on the shoulders of giants."
My main takeaway from Scott's book was that explicitly teaching something works better than expecting a student to figure it out for themselves.
It might seem obvious but it was a huge discovery for me.
This is basically a dream pairing
🐐 Two 🐐 goats 🐐 having 🐐 a 🐐 discussion
🐐"Baaah "
🐐" "
Good interview.
I thought the audio was fine.
I did not expect this collab....
yea... ive been leaving bits of message and comments, on other channels, that What Scott has compiled , on some least expect places [ Philosphy, life motivations etc]
yes, fear and pain works, up to a certain point, but having. to understand and deliberately do targeted incentives for the brain is much easier on the long run sustenance
the Rule of thumb, in life is know who you are , where you are and what you want and the flaws that comes. Once stock take is done, its easier to just [ Copy and paste ], trial and error without stress , and there you can accelerate further and faster ....
yes the initial learning curve or mountain to climb and over come is sheer danger, however... the law of nature and physics dont lie, the more practise , the tougher it is, the less stressful when real situation comes u [ learning data on the fly , getting problem solving skills down and fast ]
After this you, Scott Young and Justin Sung should do another one of these vids all together to complete the trilogy.
yes!!
After watching Scott Young, Benjamin Keep and Justin Sung their content for hundreds of hours I think Justin Sung is not up there with these two.
Justin is intentionally making things vague to make people buy his course. You can extract everything you need by watching a lot of hours of his content for free which is cool though. However if you read about his course, people share anonymously that the course is set up to financially abuse the people that take it and then threaten people to sue them if they complain about it. Don't get me wrong I learned a lot from Justin Sung but then moved on to these two giants which have much better content.
@@Entheos84 I will not comment on his course although I have read some of these anonymous reviews. However, I do still think Sung is a great place to start when you want to learn about learning beyond just the usual advice of do active recall and past papers, ignoring the role of encoding in the learning process. But yes he can be vague at times which was super frustrating when you try to watch his earlier videos.
@@herdumptrucks Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that it is a great place to start. The test that you can do to see where your strengths and weaknesses are, when it comes to learning strategies, were unique to me and very helpful. The other test to analyse your current learning strategy has also helped me tweak my learning strategy so he is very helpful in that regard. I was just a little disappointed by the course part. I understand that he has to make a living but I personally would take a different approach to sell what I have to offer.
Maybe I am judging too harshly but I just wanted to get it out there. Anyway, completing the trilogy would indeed be cool :)
@@Entheos84 Thanks for your reply as well. 🙂 Yeah I completely agree with you. His recent videos are accessible, have really useful tips and techniques and they communicate his ideas and practices decently but his previous videos used to be super vague and theory heavy to be useful which did sour my opinion of him a bit. Plus, I think all the useful ideas that can be learned from the course can be learned with his free videos and maybe some other free sources too if you want to learn more. There are some really great books, videos and websites out there that are just as helpful, like Benjamin Keep's channel. But I still want to see all three of them interact. It would be interesting.
the big thing in the first 45 minutes was 'you don't know waht you will use'
the problem which you are close to but not hitting is the role of abstraction changes in people's minds.
lets say some thing is worth learnign because it opens up some opportunity. it the opportunity is not considered relvant before the lecturing occurs then the apathy will supress learning.
to motivate students you need to make it seem relevant.
for a direct example using trig to find how tall a tree is, might be useful in the future, but to find how high a kite is is not useful. so if the student can't abduce how it is relevant the student wont care.
Great video… Joined your community as well, let’s go on to make 2025 an even better year.
My two mentor... Young and keep.
And Sung
@sonicmaths8285 yes yes
damn bro came back after a long time and dropped a banger
I love Scott's work but ultimately I found his book disappointing, not because he's a bad writer or he presents bad ideas, far from it, but I think in general the underlying message that can be inferred form the whole body of learning sciences and neuroscience or any adjacent topic is
"well, we're not sure how any of this works, and there seems to be outliers that trump everyone else but maybe these techniques might maybe work for you idk"
and as a student who disparately wants to improve to expand his capacity for learning and effectiveness this message feels underwhelming. (and of course it's not Scott's fault he's just consolidating the findings)
will I ever be able to compete with my objectively high iq peers or will they forever leave me in the dust behind as they beat me across all dimensions.
"For those who have everything, more will be given , for those who have nothing, everything will be taken away"
until we find the great equalizer of IQ I will continue to indulge in learning science.
Thank you Benjamin, great video!
"will I ever be able to compete with my objectively high iq peers"
No? Aren't they progressing too? For what exact reason do you think that their abilities are fixed (or, provided that they have higher IQ than you in prior, why should their pace of progression be slower than yours)?
I think perhaps it's not that we don't know things work and which things generally work poorly but that there's a lot of variables that make different things appropriate in particular circumstances which are hard to fully scientifically study.
When there are profit incentives involved as in TH-cam people will tend to overpromise and exaggerate the possible results you can get. If you spend a lot of time seeing and hearing those promises, you will be callibrated to be underwhelmed when sincere grounded advice is given.
It's probably a slight fallacy to believe other people are just much smarter than you. There are many factors going into any individual's learning outcomes and it sounds like a barrier to yours might be anxiety over success and too much looking for better methods and not enough applying what you know works well. You may also be tired or distracted by other things. Through my life I have had varied outcomes to learning endeavors depending a lot of my circumstances and well being, from exceling to struggling to not trying to trying in spite of living through hell. In my experience the biggest factors are not really specific techniques, most people gravitate toward reasonably effective techniques unless they are really taking a study hack/guru for gospel.
the best explanation as to why it might seem the book is bad at giving concise examples : he himself and most others, are already at [ that level ]
one of the chapters which he focuses why genius or highly capable people are the least good at teaching.
think ive mentioned on Dr Justin Sung's video before : the insane amount of [ personalized mental short cuts ] are done, when dealing with a problem or a new knowledge. the higher tier tinkers ;/ thinkers are already dissembling the details and grouping or sorting out in their brain
i recall one of the MRi scans from studies, found it interesting when patients viewed something they love and like, vs something that bores them
the 2nd gen or 3 update of his book should allow, a novice reader, a young adult to read through and write their thoughts throughout the process
and supplment it.
If anyone finds it lost , mind map Scott's book, and churn it into a AI/ ChatGPT and have it ask those same questions, but base on their role as a learning coach.
you will find that, for every new students new to this learning sphere, theres already dozen of genius who found their own solutions after mimicking the current and consolidated strats and answers.
it is overwhelming simple and complex, the need for the readers to further expand and find out more for each chapters' take away makes it a bit of a chore for alot of readers is why , i would assume not many could get answers.
to quote Bruce Lee : a punch is just a punch when i was a novice, a punch is no longer just a punch but a elaboration of martial skill and fists when i was at a high level.
but once mastery of the punch, its just merely a simply punch [ denoting that, after complexities of trying and practising, the movement becomes so efficient and effective, its just another [ simple move ]
Same goes for whatever is mentioned on this video, which i hope some of the comments can do a timeline AI breakdown and takeaway haha
@@avimir8805what? i meant their progression and rate of learning is highly faster than mine idk how youd think i meant the opposite
To add another tip,
whilst listening, do yourself a favor and take down your questions and. thoughts.
if there isnt ask, how can this help me, at this time or my current relationship problem or money issues.
allow your brain to have some roaming, as it requires both Default Mode Network [ sub concious ] and TPN Task positive Network [ your awareness of what is going on .
Theres one youtuber, who is still teaching courses at harvard or cambridge, who made a point, that, any books or materials, written, to create a summary for the first section, of the top page, followed by the next paragraph. Combine those 2 and then add in the last 2nd and final portion of the given reading page.
Effort IS required for anything , thats where confidence comes from, knowing what you dont know at a given [ area and space ].
My takeaway is that there is no one right way to learn something, there's only very useful advice.
The reason being miscommunication between the researchers, and miscommunication between the researchers and people looking to apply the information.
Benjamin i think you need good treening in terms of sound ;-)
Goddamn...
Cliffs Notes, please.
just watch and re-watch the parts you have trouble understanding.
Write your own cliff notes to better understand it.