Copper Wire Recycling
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2024
- Running a sample of copper wire chop waste through our hammer mill and shaker table to see if we can recover any more valuable copper. These samples came from the waste stream of a high production copper wire chopping plant in Europe and this customer wants to determine how much copper they are loosing in their waste streams. I was very surprised how much additional copper the shaker table was able to recover! They are throwing away a lot of money that an MBMM hammer mill and shaker table can recover and make them more money.
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“improvement in real time.” That’s why these videos are so darned helpful.
The reason you are retrieving more that target is because you are weighing it wet. I believe if you would dry the samples it would be more accurate.
Came here for this exact statement.
18:31 I think he already addressed that issue by pointing it out.
I suspect there is a LOT more water weight than he thinks.
Copper is nine times denser than water.
If the bucket was half water by volume it would be a 10% error.
I'd estimate his error at under 3%.
This comment here is why you watch the video in it's entirety before commenting
Wow, Jason, you are definitely on to something there with the plastic on top of the shaker. It's like putting a static layer of fluid on the top of a tilted volume. That will be something that can be developed in several ways. GREAT WORK!
Great way to start my Saturday, coffee,cigar, and a MBMM video
There's nobody in TH-cam like you one of a kind.. God bless you always..how to take your time to educate..you Just made me a happy person 😮😮❤❤ thank you
14:22 you could drain the #3 and #4 port into big bags inside your resservoir to keep the water cleaner and have less maintenance on cleaning the reservoir out
If you watch some other videos he has a screw setup that collects debris, but that's usually stone. For this instance he'll probably filter everything in one go at the end. There's not enough to warrant using the screw. Usually he's running tons of material as well.
I find your videos so interesting. Keep up the great work!
Something that I wondered about: Did you see all the devastation from the Hurricane Ian down in Florida? Would it be possible to build something on a bigger scale to shred/hammer all those materials and recycle everything? And I am talking about EVERYTHING, cars, houses, downed power lines? To be able to separate organic and metals to clean everything up? Also could use that same system to clean up ALL the landfills? I was thinking about building it on Semi truck trailers to be easily transported to where it could be used. Just feed it all with front end loaders in the front and out the back comes everything nice and clean.
I'm just a dreamer. I love the mechanics of you tables and the science of separation process.
I never really understood how a shaker table works. Learned a lot from the video Jason! Thank you!
its specific gravity and density. if everything on the table is the same size and you vibrate it the heavier pieces fall faster the table is tilted so the heaviest things are at the steepest tilt the lightest on the most shallow tilt #1 con is the outlet under the steepest tilt #4 the shallowest , the grooves in the table stall the material movement forward which causes heavier to slide sideways down the tilt,,,, all the pieces need to be the same size for things to sort by density,,, there will be an art to this the science part is easy though
I did enjoy this video. Nice results. The customer should be very happy. That 47% is some kind of customers error. TYVM
If you don't mind losing the aluminum all-together, put your product in a bucket of water and add some sodium hydroxide. The aluminum will react and should leave the copper.
Boom slam dunk. 👍
And make a lot of hydrogen gas and heat so be careful 🙏
You can recover the aluminum oxide by treated the filtered (to remove the copper) solution with methanol or formaldehyde to precipitate the Al2O3, then calcinate the washed and dried precipitate to recover pure liquid aluminum
Hey Jason, I really appreciate seeing you use appropriate protective gear in all of your videos. I'm always worried for people who handle this stuff (for example, your recent video in Sudan with the mercury) without protection as a lot of materials will absolutely impact your health at some point in your life. Keep up the good work and the very interesting videos!
Such a simple fix to a major problem . I love it?
That's a really effective and efficient set up you have there. Great video cheers ❤️💛💚👍
love the method to the madness , saving the plant one test at a time , one lesson at a time
You should totally melt the results down and make an ingot then hit it with the XRF to see your actual percentage of copper recovered. Also, if there is enough aluminum and tin you’ll end up with a VERY gold colored alloy commonly called Nordic Gold with is actually a marine grade bronze. Nordic Gold is 89% copper, 10% aluminum and 1% tin by weight.
Jason i would of liked see these samples smelted that way the rest the junks burned out & even though not a lot it does make a difference on a large scale basis ! I don't coment on a lot videos but i watch & give thumbs up on most every video i watch !
This is important work. We need to recover as close to 100% as possible. Waste nothing.
Hard to believe how interesting I found this. I ended up watching four of your videos in a row - and I'm not in the mining industry at all. Cool stuff, or hot in the case of the smelting videos.
Another great one, Jason, thanks! I hope you can get your products out there even MORE. I just watched a 'dirty gold' doc on TH-cam about Peru. Lots of mercury still being used around the world.
Nice lab setup
Very impressive recovery - well done Jason!
In the early days of gold mining in Australia the diggings were sifted dry on a gravity-table (shaker table). The heavy metal gravitates to the down hill side; lighter rubbish a bit higher up and dust was blown away by the wind.
Have you thought about a low-suction draught to suck away the very light rubbish first and then submit the material to the wet shaker-table? I think it might be a quicker way to to separate.
Excellent test! I learned a lot of watching your expertise! Go Jason! 😊
So, I've noticed you've been having problems w/ sample one and sample two for collecting. Instead of buckets, have you tried using cheese cloth w/ possibly a sifter basket under it? That way you can collect the metal, keep the water flowing, and you don't have to worry about nothing floating off from the water. Or put cheese cloth in a sifter basket and hang it under the 1 and 2 holes. And of course, the bigger the load the bigger sifter basket you're gonna need w/ more cheese cloth. Although now that I'm thinking about it, you could also use a pot noodle strainer w/ a handle on it and put cheese cloth in that and hang it under 1 and 2. One for each. You could also use metal buckets w/ a handle, put a lot of holes in it using a drill and drill bit, and put cheese cloth in that too. And just hang them from 1 and 2. You could also try that method w/ thee other sample areas too. And w/ cheese cloth you can add more layers if you want to said buckets. That way you can collect metal and keep the water flowing w/out losing anything in the water or because of the water.
Keep up w/ the videos! I love them! If ya guys could make LONGER videos, that'd be great. Like 3 hours of mining or 3-5 hours of just doing work, running around, running stuff through your machines, etc. Love watching y'all work! Fascinating work! 💙💙💙🤙🤙🤙👊👊👊😁😁😁
Have you ever thought of replacing a mechanical shaker to pneumatic shaker you'll be able to adjust the the airspeed and create a higher harmonic or lower. And try adding something to the water to change the density alcohol vinegar ammonia anything to change the density of the water along with the surfactant.
Hi grade knowledge. Thank you.
I really love the stuff you do. A great variety of topics, all real interesting. With all my melting and scrapping, it's fun to watch.
All I can say is WOW.
Great video Jason. Your systems work great. Thanks for sharing all your experiences with us.
You must be just north of me somewhere. I'm 503 and you're 360..
I really enjoy watching the videos. Keep em comin
I think it's super cool you're in my state doing all these fun things. Living in Olympia lol, I miss getting out in the outdoors lol.
When I worked in the sawmill they had shaker screens for sorting chips. Or as Dan Hurd calls it. Classifying through metal seives. The only difference was that it was the size of a small cottage. I used to love going in there when it was on. It was like a bouncy castle for adults. And you got paid union wages to do it. :) The big difference being. Instead of bouncy on an air cushion that converted the kinetic energy you put in to move. It was powered by a 20 horse motor that shook the whole place violently and endlessly. The other difference was instead of taking your shoes off. You put your boots on, Gloves on, And at least glasses but goggles were handy. Oh yeah and instead of it being soft and clothlike. It was Hard and made of mild grade steel. :) good times were had by all.
love outside the box thinkin - great work; the plastic makes sense removes the air and forces the particulates to sink
That is amazing. You do make it look so easy. Very tempting to take this approach and check out the old abandoned gold mines in my hometown.
Thanks!
That was very interesting on what they thought they was and what you found for weight keep up the great videos brother we're all brothers from another mother
Very interesting Jason, thank you. I'm learning a ton, or is that tonne, from you as I continue to grow my recycling biz.
Hi Jason, have you thought about just running water on the table first to purge all the bubbles from the table before adding sample? An accessory to the table could involve the production of the 0.5 mil sheet made to fit the upper contour of the table above the table top to eliminate any void spaces. This would allow the sheet to sit down on the table better. Just an idea. Love your videos.
Did the analysis for Sample #4 list just elemental copper, or copper-bearing compounds as well? That could account for the low yield of free copper particles.
There's so much water in those cups when measuring them during each section, So the weights were even more off.
Sometimes labs only test a very small sample which might not be perfectly representative. Perhaps that is why sample 4 was believed to be 47 percent Cu.
Just bought my stokkermill granulator 34000 and my pre shredder coming next with conveyer belt got a contract to process 100k of wire a month
Dry before, wet after has math way off. Love the videos but should have dried before 2nd scale. Badass machines Jason.
Great video Jason. Thank you. 🍻👍
i just love this unit
I believe this is the 1st time you've had a mix of aluminum and copper. My guess is this is a mix of phone wire and power supply wires. The way these 2 split just answered my main concern with the table on how it would work with this mix of wire. Very nice to see.
No. He has done a few vids now with copper / aluminium mixes on his shaker table.
Cheap extensions cords(rare) may have aluminum wire. Cheap electronics related products can have aluminum wire. I've seen HDMI cables with aluminum wire.
Of course large gauge aluminum wire is common. I've seen large scale solar installers use aluminum wherever they can, especially when copper prices are very high. It's not fun to pull through conduits, so extra effort is made to limit bends when the wire is aluminum.
@@aredditor4272 Here in Australia we use 240mm2 Aluminium cabling for underground power distribution on the Electricity suppliers side as its less likely to get stolen. Nothing wrong with it. But like you said just needs to be thicker guage.
@@staples4335 high voltage distribution and transmission is almost always aluminum. Above and below ground.
Don't know how that's processed when it has a steel cable in the middle, which is a thing. ACSR - aluminum cable steel reinforced.
@@aredditor4272 No. I'm talking low voltage. 415/240v distribution.
Really enjoyed this adventure, thank you so much! You ROCK!!!
Excellent recovery of those valuable minerals.
I can imagine so many dilemmas when processing wire through wire granulators.
Auto and appliance wire can be terribly greasy. Wire harnesses often use lots of sticky gooey tape.
Extention cord wire is often coated with some sort of powder, perhaps cornstarch or talc. They contain strings and paper.
A lot of wire is extremely small gauge. It would have to be chopped very fine to liberate the metals from the insulation.
get it frozen that takes care of most of the issues you discuss, and makes it brittle so the hammer mill is more efficient.... dry ice or liquid gas , yes its an expense but thats recycling and recovery .
@@mobiousenigma I've thought about that, but I can imagine that creates more dilemmas than it solves. Probably a treatment with a solvent would be cheaper or the same cost, safer, easer on the equipment.
I've noticed granulators are usually fidgety high current draw machines. Often starting them up is a several stage process so as not to cause overloads. Amp draw meters have to be watched as indicators that it's being overloaded.
@@aredditor4272 i dont see how treating the material cryogenicly before the hammermill could create issues . it should be easier on the equipment because the materials properties are far more brittle.... sticky stuff isnt sticky at -60c and it shatters to dust same for the rubbers . solvent versus dry ice cost ill go solvent would be far more expensive to use and dispose of than co2 or lox . i suspect it may change at scale but for these volumes a cooler and a slab of dryice would do it it might benefit from drying first or possibly be better with a %of moisture to create monolithic masses . i know nothing of the demands of granulation equipment or its intricacies so i will accept your input there ;] i have to say 30 min of shaker table operation had more value than 30 min of funny animal or stupid human videos have lol i suspect jason is also using it and us as a tool ;] which is a good use for youtube over the usual youtube using us all.
@@mobiousenigma try it, I bet it doesn't work how you think it might, especially the part where it all quickly defrosts and anything that was sticky or oily is once again greasy and sticky.
Unfortunately Jason doesn't build granulators. I don't think he even does eddy current separators
Yet
They're fairly complex things.
@@aredditor4272 why would it need to be defrosted? the aim is to turn it into a uniform powder as for the machines getting cold ,,,lot of mass in the hammers soak a lot of cold only brief contact with material and that contact generates heat....i dont see it getting as cold as the material its processing especially at this scale. as for instant defrost its getting dumped into water that should do it. but as i said what would it matter if its frozen ...as long as its powder more or less?
Set up to fail if sticking to the "analysis". I use laundry detergent when I'm looking to keep suds down. Pretty cheap too compared to dish soap.
Thanks for recycling! 👍👍👍
That was really interesting Thanks Jason!
super video Jason :) I just find these videos so calming to watch :)
Hey just a suggestion, you do what you want, but maybe try dishwasher detergent, it produces a lot less suds.
Very cool Jason!
Please cut a circular hole on the side of the hammer mill, bolt on a good quality piece of plexiglass type material, and mount a camera (slow mo maybe?) and a focussed light looking thru that hole. I'd love to see exactly what's going on in there.
I’m a window cleaner and a squeegee (36’ long if needed) may help the plastic used to have less bubbles.
I remember Dan Hurd adding soap to deal with hydrophobic material.
fantastic piece of science on this video, just been looking at some of your other videos, excellent work if it was me in your place I would look at the output of the jaw crusher as some of it is already dust and could go straight to the table, the other thing would be on some applications use the middling fraction water flow as part of the hammer mill water feed, use a Venturi to pull the fraction without running through the pump, then you are removing junk as opposed to extracting value and you can set the cut to remove more junk as the value will be caught on the next pass through the table,
Very cool Jason thanks for sharing that with us!
the soap issue can be easily solved by using a bath soap bar as that will kill the foam from the washing up liquid ( dish soap ) wouldn't need much to deal with the foam,
it's a lot to expect a standard shaker table to extract everything when it would really need to be slightly tweaked to get everything, overloading was also an issue if it was more evenly fed it wouldn't wash over as much
Using a base to soponify the oil would be awesome. Too bad the copper wouldn't like that.
It is likely that a commercial car wash detergent would be efficient to use with cost being considered. Large volumes would be pretty inexpensive. And it can be dosed in using a peristaltic pump.
You should add Jason with your logo so when we see the TH-cam we know it's you. just a thought. love your channel!
I been waiting for this video all week😂😂
Ps copper among other precious metals are recovered via electrolysis. And have to meet ISRI codes for the various pure forms, ie no alloys. A vary daunting task for recyclers.
Thanks for sharing
Nice bush-fix for the floating particles but I think a heavier plastic would eliminate the small ridges and make it easier to avoid or remove air pockets. When the difference is mere grams/m² the impact appears negligible to this couch critic.
Great video Dude!!! I'm down to give you some samples from my claim to run in your amazing Shaker table!!!!
Well you just bring it down down buddy!
@@chicagovasko well
I'm glued man I wish I could afford a machine I'd work that sucker 24,7.
Are those dry weights coming off the table?
Also, depending on the analytical method, the starting percentages might not be that accurate. Often trace metal analyses that show a wide range of elements are not tailored to deliver precision on really high percentages.
Yeah the copper looked wet to me
That was my first thought. It looks wet.
Number 5 sample looked like wrecking yard gravel
On a video I'm watching you are
recovering copper with insulation on it and you went to hardware store,
Try a car paint supply house they have a role of very thin plastic you unfold very lite seems to me it should work. Troy
Would there ever be a reason to filter water and or drain and clean out the settling pond?
Holy shit batman that's the first corded power tool I've seen on TH-cam
Fantastic Video!!!
You should invite Sreetips on and have him do a recovery from your settling pond with you, that would be awesome! He does a recovery every so often from his stock pots.
I like collabs!
Assuming you dont do a gold recovery from your settling pond....
Awesome!
What a gorgeous firework fountain those metal powders would make, a little KNO3, sulphur, charcoal or powdered sugar and you're in a new business, thrill the family anyway.
Wow, nice recovery. Maybe a lightweight trashcan liner cut open around the edges? Would be lighter than that plastic, if that's what you're aiming for.
I would love to see you do a video with sreetips on you tube you always ask great questions I think we all could learn abit
I would say that the analysis results that you have been given have been mixed up by your client. If you plot all the numbers, using an expected recovery using your table (I would say around 80% on a shaker table), I would say the numbers make sense if you swap the analysis results around. I think they have made a simple transcription error somewhere. But your method of separation looks to work quite well, so I think your testing was a success
that was one of my suggestion the surfactant, your obv more clever than me.... :)
Nice information and interesting idea!
Your system is working nicely.. good job Jason
✌️PT
At Snitzer Steel they separate cars ground up quite a process to see. Going into the plant a whole vehicle, coming out conveyors with separate products on each. We deliver to there plant in Oakland California. My question is why copper a low value commodity? I love watching your smelting insights for precious metals. Fred
Jason I like how you got that all set up If i ever get to that point i need one to recover gold ore i will reach out to you I like the parodic and how it works would you smelt the copper down and make ingest out of it or bars to sell to scrap recycling places ???? thank you
Jason, you should look into thermo-roto-screeners for PCB's, man.
Does water weight have any affect in yield after separation
Question: what would the costs be to cast mixed metals into a sheet and electro-refine the metals? It SEEMS to be less wasteful, but I don’t actually know.
Oh I want to go look for gold, I’m from the Snoqualmie area, and pan for gold, only find a few small colors but I would like to find one big chunk one day, I use to go to all the old gold mines in the area
Good luck. 👍
What would happen if instead of using plastic you used net curtains or the like. Maybe then no air bubbles would form. You could experiment with hygroscopic materials such as cotton, semi-hygroscopic materials such as rayon/polyester, or hydrophobic materials such as polyamide. You could also experiment with different mesh sizes.
Another improvement could be, to make a framework that follows the circumference of the shaker table and span the fabric on that. As a matter of fact, this reminds me of the sieves used in the screen printing process, which also uses an aluminum frame stretched with a fine mesh material. Just some ideas.
maibe you can use slightly perforated plastic , the plastic will still float as its lighter than water but bubbles should bleed off , noy sure if the fine metals will workt though the pinprick holes and weigh the plastic down to the point it sinks but it might be worth a ry
Jason, Looks to me like they may have deliberately given you incorrect log sheets (from other sample tests) to test your analysis. Numbers are to disparate to be correct. Europeon technology is pretty damn good so their recovery rates should have been much higher me thinks. Be interesting to hear what they think about your analysis data and whether they have real interest in buying MBMM equipment. Keep us informed please.
Likely different weighing methods - Europeans assay dry, Jason's samples are wet...
Jason the additional weight might be water - most assays are done with dry material...
i believe if you get the right tech and processes you will seperate and isolate all kinds of materials...dry or wet sample on the statistical paper? how do you know they dry weighed it or not?
still this taught me a lot, thank you...😊
Run compressed air over the plastic sheet to push out the bubbles under the sheet
Nice job great video
you know how in oil spill kits they have square pads which will absorb oil but NOT water, what about shredding something like that and mixing it through to absorb the oil then go out the lighter side
You may look into getting a moisture analyzer, if you don’t already have one. They are a quick way to get wt% moisture/volatiles in solids. You can get dry wt coming in and for isolated products coming out… apples to apples you know. Moisture is an impurity that easily overlooked, because it is so ubiquitous. They aren’t cheap, $500 to $3k depending on brand and new/used, but will save you time oven drying samples. Just tare the pan add sample and it prints the results. Easy Peezy… For ref the one I use in my lab is a Mettler Toledo HE53 Moisture Analyzer, on the expensive end but really nice…