I mix 3 gal in a bucket on brew day to sterilize the fermenter , hoses, oxygenation stone, etc. I pour some into a spray bottle and keep that throughout fermentation to spray any connections I make to the fermenter. I keep the rest of the star-san solution in the bucket (very loosely covered) for the whole fermentation time (up to 2-3 months, depending on style). I then use the same months-old solution from the bucket on bottling day to sterilize the bottles or keg. Have never had an infection in 35+ years of home brewing. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I'm not planning on changing.
I was planning on writing out a whole story but then found this one!!!! THIS I do exactly THIS! And I'm yet to have any problems! I use iodophor though not starsan!
I'm on the boat that starsans lasts at least weeks in a bottle but I don't feel too great about this experiment. All this proves is that it stays acidic but starsans doesn't work by just making a surface too acidic for bacteria to live on. It's positively charged so it destroys negatively charged bacteria on contact. If you were relying on it's acidic features for cleaning, it wouldn't work as a contact cleaner because it's not about concentration. The only real way to test this would be to have 3 cultures - a control, one treated with fresh starsans and the other with an old bottle and seeing if bacteria still grows on one treated with old cleaner.
1.5 ml for 32 oz spray bottle. Also recently listened to a podcast with Charlie Talley (was on basic brewing from April or so of 2007) I believe his name was from starsan who said you can make your own equivelant in a pinch. 5 gallons water 1 ounce white vinegar and 1 ounce bleach. Also same as you stated is good as long as ph is below 3
I found version of starsan that contains the same ingredients plus it contains peroxides. It's for food service cleaning. I use it diluted for cleaning everything except copper (pits metal). Stuff is lethal to most microbes in under a min. The issue is that it requires rinsing because the peroxide will ruin finished beer instantly. The peroxides break down quickly once diluted so I need to mix a new batch every time. Thus I use it for cleaning only, then use the star San for vessel & equipment sanitizing before use.
The 1-hour time limit might be a legal requirement because the acid could potentially dissolve part of the container it’s stored in, making it untested for human consumption.
I have used Starsan for years and stored the made up soloution for several months at a time and never had a problem. The manufacturer wants to sell as much of the product as possible they will tell the customer to use it up after a short period of time it's the name of their game.
As a professional brewer I appreciate you pointing out that StarSan doesn't last for as long as some people believe it does. I should also note that if you don't mix it to the right dillution rate (1 oz./5 gallons water) it may either be too weak to really work, or if too heavy, leave a residue on your equipment that could lead to problems down the line if not removed. As for the Weihenstephaner hefeweissbier dunkel that you tasted I highly doubt that there was anything wrong with it, particularly a fermentation flaw. Weihenstephan is one of the largest breweries in the world, and part of the Weihenstephan science center of the Technical University of Munich; they don't release bad beer. If there is a problem with that particular bottle it must be based on how it was handled before it got to you
Thank you for the video. I worked in a restaurant and when we used this it was in a bucket and many utensils were introduced to the solution, and it is also open to the air. I think this is where their one hour window originates for safety. The pH is not going to change drastically in a sealed container over the course of a few weeks. I did like and subscribe as I am new to brewing and fermenting foods, and I am very excited about the possibilities. Cheers!
I'd be curious to know how using tap water vs distilled water might impact its life. I've heard tap can reduce its effectiveness in the long term but by how much? Sometime I get lazy and just use tap but never had any issues/infections.
Tap water is "bad" for starsan, because insoluble calcium phosphate forms with tap water and that will neutralise some of the acid. This reaction is responsible for the cloudiness of starsan made with tap water. In reality, the effect is small to negligible, because the calcium concentration in tap water is low and because adding additional starsan will compensate for the small loss.
I work in a brewery and at least in Europe the spray bottle hanging around in the brewery are all filled with ethanol. But when I do a batch of home brewed beer I use some starsan too, I think that if you want to be safe you need to use distilled water in your starsan solution and test the ph before use like you did. Careful these yellow ph meters don’t last very long ;)
I have not been checking the pH for my star san - I guess I should. I give it a shake and see if the foam formation is instantaneous and correct appearance. If not - I dump it and make some fresh. So, if it's no good after an hour in solution, how about in the package, on a shelf for months before it is sold and used? I have had a bottle of Star San that I had for -YEARS- with no problems and I never tested it.
The reason they have that on their site is because the most common use is to dillute with tap water. Tap water as you know will be on the basic side of 7 (mine is typically 7.8) and will contain minerals in solution, both work against the acid and the surfactants in starsan. If you want your starsan to be bulletproof mix it with distilled or deionized water and discard it after you have used it. i.e. if you make a bucket of the stuff then dip things in the bucket throw out the starsan when you are done. If your mixing it into a clean sprayer using distilled the shelf life is very long (it will degrade over time as the components degrade and form salts.)
We have the same approach. I'm more than comfortable having sanitizer in a spray bottle for a month and I also use a pipette to make 1 gallon batches of sani. Cheers Stephen!
That's how I roll with Starsan. So long as there are no contaminants and the pH is below 3 I'll keep using it, for months! I usually use RO water for the solution, not sure if that actually improves its shelf life. Starsan and it's copies (I actually use one called StellarSan) are mostly Phosphoric acid. Good video, cheers from Australia.
I mix my starsan with bottled water ( about to do a experiment with tap water with a Camden tablet ) in my experience I’ve still got low ph after 4 months of heavy brewing and have never changed it because of the ph changed it just because of the time scale of how long I’ve had it. Great informative video cheers from over the pond 👍🍻
Thanks for that. I feel much better about the longevity of my mix. I do use distilled water to dilute with. I too use a syringe for mixing ... 1 ml for 21.64 ounces of water in the spray bottle. But the math started with one significant digit - so close is good.
Funny, you didn't mention names but I knew instantly which channel you were talking about. I thought the same exact thing watching their video, misinformation being passed off as absolute truth. I did however stop making bigger batches before that, mostly because I have hard water and wanted to use distilled. I make a gallon at a time on brewing day and refill all of my spray bottles use them until they are gone, more than a month most of the time. Checking the PH it has always been in range, unless I make it with my tap water which is high in calcium which is alkaline and brings up the ph making it inert. Thanks for the video.
@@NWsmallbatchBrewing You don't calibrate it by having it sit in a solution of distilled water. I have what looks to be the same pen. You need to use those 3 packets that came with it and follow the directions. Mix those packets with distilled water in mason jars and keep reusing them for a while. Those pens need to be calibrated basically every time you use them. They drift very quickly. That said, I agree with the conclusion that StarSan lasts for long time and keep mine around for either an entire brew (a few weeks) or replace it after a month.
And there's me re-using the same 20L for about a year and only replacing it when it changes colour, or it runs out. 😂 If you knew it lasted basically forever, how would they get you to buy more, so they can make more profit?
I mix 3 gal in a bucket on brew day to sterilize the fermenter , hoses, oxygenation stone, etc. I pour some into a spray bottle and keep that throughout fermentation to spray any connections I make to the fermenter. I keep the rest of the star-san solution in the bucket (very loosely covered) for the whole fermentation time (up to 2-3 months, depending on style). I then use the same months-old solution from the bucket on bottling day to sterilize the bottles or keg. Have never had an infection in 35+ years of home brewing. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I'm not planning on changing.
💯
I was planning on writing out a whole story but then found this one!!!! THIS I do exactly THIS! And I'm yet to have any problems! I use iodophor though not starsan!
I'm on the boat that starsans lasts at least weeks in a bottle but I don't feel too great about this experiment. All this proves is that it stays acidic but starsans doesn't work by just making a surface too acidic for bacteria to live on. It's positively charged so it destroys negatively charged bacteria on contact. If you were relying on it's acidic features for cleaning, it wouldn't work as a contact cleaner because it's not about concentration. The only real way to test this would be to have 3 cultures - a control, one treated with fresh starsans and the other with an old bottle and seeing if bacteria still grows on one treated with old cleaner.
Kudos and bravo!!! I was going to say the same thing.
BOP
1.5 ml for 32 oz spray bottle. Also recently listened to a podcast with Charlie Talley (was on basic brewing from April or so of 2007) I believe his name was from starsan who said you can make your own equivelant in a pinch. 5 gallons water 1 ounce white vinegar and 1 ounce bleach. Also same as you stated is good as long as ph is below 3
@@garylynn2857 👍 nice
A 5 gallon batch is necessary if you want to purge a keg of O2. However, you can just continue to use that 5 gallon batch over and over for purging.
Soaking certain plastic duotight fittings in StellarSan can cause them to crack. I use alcohol spray on them instead.
I found version of starsan that contains the same ingredients plus it contains peroxides. It's for food service cleaning. I use it diluted for cleaning everything except copper (pits metal). Stuff is lethal to most microbes in under a min. The issue is that it requires rinsing because the peroxide will ruin finished beer instantly. The peroxides break down quickly once diluted so I need to mix a new batch every time. Thus I use it for cleaning only, then use the star San for vessel & equipment sanitizing before use.
Nice. Good to know. I use oxy clean for cleaning and starsan for sanitizing
The 1-hour time limit might be a legal requirement because the acid could potentially dissolve part of the container it’s stored in, making it untested for human consumption.
I have used Starsan for years and stored the made up soloution for several months at a time and never had a problem. The manufacturer wants to sell as much of the product as possible they will tell the customer to use it up after a short period of time it's the name of their game.
As a professional brewer I appreciate you pointing out that StarSan doesn't last for as long as some people believe it does. I should also note that if you don't mix it to the right dillution rate (1 oz./5 gallons water) it may either be too weak to really work, or if too heavy, leave a residue on your equipment that could lead to problems down the line if not removed. As for the Weihenstephaner hefeweissbier dunkel that you tasted I highly doubt that there was anything wrong with it, particularly a fermentation flaw. Weihenstephan is one of the largest breweries in the world, and part of the Weihenstephan science center of the Technical University of Munich; they don't release bad beer. If there is a problem with that particular bottle it must be based on how it was handled before it got to you
Could be. I'm very sensitive to Acetaldehyde for some reason. But its true some beers intend to have what we call an off flavor to certain degrees.
Thank you for the video. I worked in a restaurant and when we used this it was in a bucket and many utensils were introduced to the solution, and it is also open to the air. I think this is where their one hour window originates for safety. The pH is not going to change drastically in a sealed container over the course of a few weeks. I did like and subscribe as I am new to brewing and fermenting foods, and I am very excited about the possibilities. Cheers!
Thanks and welcome to the home brewing family !
Distilled water does not have a stable ionic equilibrium (it has none) So the measurement will always be different
I keep starsan in a spray bottle myself. I use it to sanitize the countertops and cutting boards.
Nice! Multi purpose
I'd be curious to know how using tap water vs distilled water might impact its life. I've heard tap can reduce its effectiveness in the long term but by how much? Sometime I get lazy and just use tap but never had any issues/infections.
I've heard that too but I also have just used tap water
Tap water is "bad" for starsan, because insoluble calcium phosphate forms with tap water and that will neutralise some of the acid. This reaction is responsible for the cloudiness of starsan made with tap water. In reality, the effect is small to negligible, because the calcium concentration in tap water is low and because adding additional starsan will compensate for the small loss.
i use ethanol for spray. starsan only for transfers, so i make 2 new liters every month, not a big deal.
I work in a brewery and at least in Europe the spray bottle hanging around in the brewery are all filled with ethanol.
But when I do a batch of home brewed beer I use some starsan too, I think that if you want to be safe you need to use distilled water in your starsan solution and test the ph before use like you did. Careful these yellow ph meters don’t last very long ;)
I have not been checking the pH for my star san - I guess I should. I give it a shake and see if the foam formation is instantaneous and correct appearance. If not - I dump it and make some fresh. So, if it's no good after an hour in solution, how about in the package, on a shelf for months before it is sold and used? I have had a bottle of Star San that I had for -YEARS- with no problems and I never tested it.
All valid points
The reason they have that on their site is because the most common use is to dillute with tap water. Tap water as you know will be on the basic side of 7 (mine is typically 7.8) and will contain minerals in solution, both work against the acid and the surfactants in starsan. If you want your starsan to be bulletproof mix it with distilled or deionized water and discard it after you have used it. i.e. if you make a bucket of the stuff then dip things in the bucket throw out the starsan when you are done. If your mixing it into a clean sprayer using distilled the shelf life is very long (it will degrade over time as the components degrade and form salts.)
Would have been helpful if you had stated how you mix a small amount... since you said you'd look it up.
This is an old video not sure what your asking but you can do the math and calculate enough for 1 gallon.
@@NWsmallbatchBrewing It seemed that you were saying that you mix less than a gallon at a time. I'll figure it out.
I do a gallon. about 6ML per gallon. I use a syringe you get them on amazon that measures Milliliters.
@@NWsmallbatchBrewing Thanks:)
I’m going to assume that airlocks and siphon hose should be sterilized in a container,right?
Not really. You can spray them down. Knock on wood I've never had an infection
We have the same approach. I'm more than comfortable having sanitizer in a spray bottle for a month and I also use a pipette to make 1 gallon batches of sani. Cheers Stephen!
I was kinda curious about the video, but everything got thrown out after I realized you weren’t joking about Weihenstephan.
That's how I roll with Starsan. So long as there are no contaminants and the pH is below 3 I'll keep using it, for months!
I usually use RO water for the solution, not sure if that actually improves its shelf life.
Starsan and it's copies (I actually use one called StellarSan) are mostly Phosphoric acid.
Good video, cheers from Australia.
Thanks for stopping by. I've heard that RO or distilled water can improve how long starsan can be effective.
Nice whiskey collection.
Thanks !
o
i have always used idophor as long as its got a brown its good to go so ive been told
@@markys.homebrewing.on.brewtank if it's brown wash it down?
distilled water has a ph of around 4 you should calibrate your ph pen hydro grower tip
I tried posting a comment recently, but keeps getting blocked. Can you have a look at it? Maybe you can see blocked comments and accept it somewhere
Nothing being held for review showing on my end
@@NWsmallbatchBrewing altight. Might be because of a link in there or that it's too long. Will try again.
I mix my starsan with bottled water ( about to do a experiment with tap water with a Camden tablet ) in my experience I’ve still got low ph after 4 months of heavy brewing and have never changed it because of the ph changed it just because of the time scale of how long I’ve had it. Great informative video cheers from over the pond 👍🍻
Thanks! I've heard distilled water can extend the effectiveness too
The synic in me says it’s a little like “rinse and Repeat” it’s how to make money 101.
That's a good point.
Good video, thanks for sharing this
Thanks!
hey I haven't finished the vid yet but noticed you said "Star STan" in the video title instead of San XD
Thanks
They just say an hour so they can sell you more of the stuff
I'm sure that's definitely true
At 7:49, You know the thing.
It's a thing ...
Thanks for that. I feel much better about the longevity of my mix. I do use distilled water to dilute with. I too use a syringe for mixing ... 1 ml for 21.64 ounces of water in the spray bottle. But the math started with one significant digit - so close is good.
Funny, you didn't mention names but I knew instantly which channel you were talking about. I thought the same exact thing watching their video, misinformation being passed off as absolute truth. I did however stop making bigger batches before that, mostly because I have hard water and wanted to use distilled. I make a gallon at a time on brewing day and refill all of my spray bottles use them until they are gone, more than a month most of the time. Checking the PH it has always been in range, unless I make it with my tap water which is high in calcium which is alkaline and brings up the ph making it inert. Thanks for the video.
I pretty much do the same thing.
I did as well. ;)
I would have thought you might actually calibrate the PH meter before using if you are expecting an accurate result. 😢
I did calibrate it during the video. Perhaps you missed it?
@@NWsmallbatchBrewing perhaps I did.
not sure water is a buffer soloution
@@NWsmallbatchBrewing You don't calibrate it by having it sit in a solution of distilled water. I have what looks to be the same pen. You need to use those 3 packets that came with it and follow the directions. Mix those packets with distilled water in mason jars and keep reusing them for a while. Those pens need to be calibrated basically every time you use them. They drift very quickly.
That said, I agree with the conclusion that StarSan lasts for long time and keep mine around for either an entire brew (a few weeks) or replace it after a month.
And there's me re-using the same 20L for about a year and only replacing it when it changes colour, or it runs out. 😂
If you knew it lasted basically forever, how would they get you to buy more, so they can make more profit?
yup