The new Mind Control has really grown on me. I like characters that have the option to mind control other friendly characters. I've had a lot of success with Mantis and the GotG Iron Man.
Have you seen Black Talon from the 1st Deadpool set... He can Mind Control up to 3 friendly characters with the Monster keyword (as long as no other character has been KOd). Undead, anyone?
The Tabletop Teacher He's one of the five figures I'm missing from the original Deadpool set. I should really look into getting him to use with my Zombie teams!
I miss the versatility of the old Mind Control. But on the otherhand it was sometimes a nightmare to rule on. Creating all sorts of wierd and unintended interactions. And the move and/or attack i still pretty useful. In some cases even better.
True... Getting a free Pulse Wave or some other crazy power was fun. Yet, the new move & attack or attack & move thing for any character is also fantastic. I think I prefer the new Mind Control. In any case, it renews the possibilities!
As always, thank you so much for this video, Tabletop Teacher. Out of all the abilities, I have trouble with mind control the most. You definitely earned the title as Tabletop Teacher.
I truly do love Rat King as a Mind Control piece, but one other comes to mind (groan): Dragon Piper. 2-targets, 10 attack, and whoever he targets gets -3 defense for the turn! With ES/D & Perplex, it's actually really loaded for this role. The only catch is that it needs some kind of support to work right, preferably Telekinesis, or it will probably get rushed hard.
Great video as always. Love using mind control. Ive used the new purple man combo from that video and he holds his own. Up next i think I'll use gx036 Professor X in my next xmen theme.
Thank you very much! Purple Man has been somewhat nerfed since that video... His Mastermind variant now requires the opposing characters be adjacent, but he's still a lot of fun! Thanks for watching and commenting and have fun with Professor X!
Excited to use the new mind control :p I tend to play stupid annoying stuff against my friend to show them the value of powers they tend to dismiss (210 pt WXM prime Magneto and a load of other character who can use Barrier, for example, and just lock myself in a corner the whole game) and I can't wait to try to beat them without dealing a single click of damage from my own team's attacks
Very well-done. I always appreciate my Rat King getting some representation. I just had a team using him and Dark Magician Girl yesterday that was truly nuts! I think tt210 Grymm would've been a fine honorable mention for his specific ability to work around Battle Fury, but that's a really obscure reference. Mind Control definitely isn't the super-powerful thing it used to be, which is why you no longer hurt yourself using it. Which reminds me, I wonder what your take is on Rat King using the feat Ambidextrous for his Mind Control? I posed it on HCRealms and people are kind of up in the air over it. My local judge is fine with it, and if it really can work, I'm very likely going to use this with Rat King constantly!
Well, From what I can see they should work together under the new rules. The "as if he had a range value of 6" has to be considered a replacement value or the power will not work at all due to te "Rule of Zeroes". And since it sets his range value to 6 it would mean that he meets the prerequisites for the feat and take advantage of it's effect.
My take is a little different, but I could be wrong. When you build your Force, Rat King does not meet the prerequisite for the Ambidextrous Feat; he does not have 6 range... He only has that when using his "Pawns in My Game" special power. So, at Force construction, the Feat cannot be added, assigned and paid for if Rat King is to be the one using it. I could draw a parallel with Legendary Wielders from TMT. The reason those special objects don't count towards your force and can circumvent the "Uniqueness" rule is because they're not in the game yet; they will be added from outside the game when the game starts. Here, Rat King does not have 6 range. He will eventually have 6 range and only if he uses his special power in the game, not at force construction. In an unlikely scenario, you could even imagine Rat King's special power to be outwitted on every turn and he never would have met the Feat's prerequisite. Hope that helps.
A Feat's prerequisite only decides when the character can use it's effect. Character's didn't need to meet those prerequisites anywhere on it's dial to be assigned a Feat. However it would just be a waste of points if you didn't have any external effects that makes the character meet those prerequisites.
But what about this rule? "If a feat requires you to choose one or more characters on your force when assigning the feat, you must make the choice when building your force" (p.21, 2014 Core Rulebook) Since the cost of the Ambidextrous Feat is determined using the assigned character's range, I would have thought the character could not have a range of zero. It's not quite like most other feats... But, like I said, I could be wrong.
The Tabletop Teacher yeah. However it had recieved an errata that it has a minimum cost of 12. As stated in this post: www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8937511&postcount=6
hey TT -- great video...always helps...i thought you could use the passive powers like percision strike with Mind Control because it was worded in the same way as Hypersonic Speed...never the less, if you have some of the older stuff like gaurdians of the galaxy playing the black order theme team is a lot of fun because they have super giant who gets a +1 to attack and then can use mind control as a free action to target a character she hit with MC last turn...as always keep up the great work!
Thanks! And yes, the passive powers still work (as I mentioned in the video... maybe that didn't come out as clearly as I intended). Things like Precision Strike, the Knock Back part of Force Blast and Super Strength, the bonus to break away you get from certain powers and so on. Thanks for watching and commenting!
With the new Mind Control rules, Shadow King's power should pretty much be what Mind Control is for every other character now (unless there's something I'm reading wrong). Before the 2017 rules, you could give the mind-controlled character ACTIONs, but not anymore. Must have been a lot of fun, though! Thanks for sharing.
TTT, would you mind going over the ROC world championship team, 2017. I've been playing since the beginning, but cost and availability limit me from playing a team like that. So meta gaming at that level is a bit over my head. Thnaks
Wish I could help you... I'm nowhere near being a meta player, myself. I'm a passionate player who, I hope, can help other people enjoy the game ;o). And I have the same problem you do regarding meta pieces... I don't have several of the game elements from the World Champion's team. Have you seen Happy Little Heroclix's take on the team? th-cam.com/video/a_N2nbCXSKk/w-d-xo.html A fantastic Heroclix channel!
Hey TT nice video, like the way you present everything great work. We got into a discussion with a friend about using blades claws fang during mind control, correct me if im wrong, but i understand that is a passive power that gets triggered when you make a close attack, Cold be the same with precision strike, penetrating, pe psy and the new rule for exploit weakness? Thanks
jeovives, actually, the attack a mind-controlled character makes is « unpowered ». B/C/F can only be activated when a character is given a CLOSE action, which does not apply to the mind-controlled attack. In the ones you mention, only Precision Strike would apply because it doesn’t reference a RANGE or CLOSE action.
Am I mistaken or was the older rules that you could use a character's dial powers when mind controlled? That kinda made more sense since you're controlling a character that has certain powers, so you should be able to use them... but then again, maybe if you actually control someone's mind, but you don't have the same powers, you wouldn't know how to use them.
What if you mind control someone with mystics? Does the character with mind control get damage? Also, what if you mind control a character who then attacks someone with mystics, does the mind controller get damage or the mind controlled character who attacked?
Oh lord, I need to check but I don't think I have any characters yet with Mind Control. If I do, I haven't used them. I'm still very new to this but watching your videos has been such a great resource. Here's the nasty thing I instantly thought of and am super curious if it's possible. Mind Control an opposing character with multiple range bolts and have them attack their own Mystic(s). (Assuming that was your opposing team). How cruel and fun would that be? Would the Mystic team ability still apply or would they become friendly in the space between attacking and the TA kicking in? Very curious, as I said I'm still learning but that seems fun. Now imagine if you could control a power in that scenario too, say Pulse Wave..
Are you certain about the dual target mind control. I thought that you resolve each part of the action separately, and that if you mind control two targets, each one is friendly during their portion of the action, but not he other figure's portion.
Yup, I'm certain. Since the characters are all hit simultaneously by the Mind Control, they all become friendly at the same time (there's no rule that allows you to decide which would be friendly or not and at which moment). Then, one of those characters completes the move and/or attack instructions and reverts forces. You cannot move both or attack with both and then do the other instruction (or perhaps I misread your comment). 1. All hit characters become friendly and halve speed. 2. Choose a character to move/attack first; it reverts forces. 3. The next character can then do its move/attack thing. Hope that helps!
According to Wizkids: "A question that quickly arose was “Does it work the same with multiple targets?” The new rulebook will make it clear that you resolve each “hit character” effect sequentially, and that each character only joins your force for the time that you are moving and attacking with them, so they can still “bash each other”, just like now." What I thought that mean was, you hit two opponent figures (say Sabretooth and Mystique) and mins control both. Sebretooth can still attach Mistique and Mistique can still attack Sabretooth. Each may have been mind controlled at the same time, but they resolve their actions separately.
Hmm... That's a good point from that article that was published in March. I have these videos checked by an extremely reliable source before publishing them so they can pick up on that type of thing. I will check again and come back to you on that. Thanks for quoting that text... If the video needs correcting, I will publish an updated version as soon as I can. Thanks again!
OK... So I got confirmation from my sources at WizKids that what was said in the video is correct. But that was an excellent point and question, thanks! Glad we cleared that up.
I’m a new player, and I’m a bit confused by this power, since it’s classified under “Speed”. Do I use the character’s Speed value to attack, or their Attack value?
I guess somebody already has answered this to you... Anyway, the rule says that you have to make a close or range attack, so you will have to use your attack value. Yes, it is a speed value, and yes, it doesn't make any sense at all but well, it's not the 1st that happens XD
Everything that does not require an action or triggers of the character being given an action. So a character with Leap/Climb can make close combat attacks against characters on other elevations, Plasticity will grant +2 to a break away roll, Force Blast will make the attack have KNOCKBACK and so on. Oh, and effects from things like, equipment, relics, resources and such cannot be used while under the effect of mind control.
The green lantern would be friendly to the mind controller's force and could therefore carry other characters, including the mind controller, on that force. However it could not carry characters from it's original force as it would be considered opposing to them while affected by mind control.
I love Purple Man... He got seriously nerfed, though. His Mastermind variant now requires the opposing characters to be adjacent. It makes sense, but it's nowhere near as strong as before. He'll always have a special place in my heart, though. As villains go, he's one of the best.
Sorry for the late reply... The answer is super short. No ;o). A character is friendly to itself. A mind-controlled character can't attack itself no more than any of your characters could attack themselves. When there's a single opposing character left on the battlefield, Mind Control is rarely a good option (unless you want to move that character in a specific position).
Not with the standard power, because it's an attack and you cannot attack friendly characters. Some characters have special powers that allow you to use Mind Control on friendly characters, though. Black Talon, from the first Deadpool set, is very interesting in that respect considering all the new Undead figures that are now available. He could use Mind Control on up to 3 friendly lower-point characters with the Monster keyword.
The new Mind Control has really grown on me. I like characters that have the option to mind control other friendly characters. I've had a lot of success with Mantis and the GotG Iron Man.
Agreed on Mantis. Excellent filler in Avengers team, no one expects the 7 range Mind Control.
Have you seen Black Talon from the 1st Deadpool set... He can Mind Control up to 3 friendly characters with the Monster keyword (as long as no other character has been KOd). Undead, anyone?
The Tabletop Teacher He's one of the five figures I'm missing from the original Deadpool set. I should really look into getting him to use with my Zombie teams!
The rat king for sure. His mobility makes him a force to be reckoned with.
I miss the versatility of the old Mind Control. But on the otherhand it was sometimes a nightmare to rule on. Creating all sorts of wierd and unintended interactions. And the move and/or attack i still pretty useful. In some cases even better.
True... Getting a free Pulse Wave or some other crazy power was fun. Yet, the new move & attack or attack & move thing for any character is also fantastic. I think I prefer the new Mind Control. In any case, it renews the possibilities!
As always, thank you so much for this video, Tabletop Teacher. Out of all the abilities, I have trouble with mind control the most. You definitely earned the title as Tabletop Teacher.
Thank you very much; that's what I like to read!
I truly do love Rat King as a Mind Control piece, but one other comes to mind (groan): Dragon Piper. 2-targets, 10 attack, and whoever he targets gets -3 defense for the turn! With ES/D & Perplex, it's actually really loaded for this role. The only catch is that it needs some kind of support to work right, preferably Telekinesis, or it will probably get rushed hard.
A very nice figure, indeed, that Dragon Piper... Gotta protect it fast from any character that could base i, though.
Great video as always.
Love using mind control. Ive used the new purple man combo from that video and he holds his own.
Up next i think I'll use gx036 Professor X in my next xmen theme.
Thank you very much! Purple Man has been somewhat nerfed since that video... His Mastermind variant now requires the opposing characters be adjacent, but he's still a lot of fun! Thanks for watching and commenting and have fun with Professor X!
Excited to use the new mind control :p I tend to play stupid annoying stuff against my friend to show them the value of powers they tend to dismiss (210 pt WXM prime Magneto and a load of other character who can use Barrier, for example, and just lock myself in a corner the whole game) and I can't wait to try to beat them without dealing a single click of damage from my own team's attacks
That's an interesting challenge... I like the idea. No dealing damage from your team until the last opposing figure is standing. Cool!
Excellent job of explaining Mind Control with very helpful graphics!!!
Thank you very much! Working on Force Blast and Knock Back Rules right now... Stay tuned!
Very well-done. I always appreciate my Rat King getting some representation. I just had a team using him and Dark Magician Girl yesterday that was truly nuts! I think tt210 Grymm would've been a fine honorable mention for his specific ability to work around Battle Fury, but that's a really obscure reference. Mind Control definitely isn't the super-powerful thing it used to be, which is why you no longer hurt yourself using it.
Which reminds me, I wonder what your take is on Rat King using the feat Ambidextrous for his Mind Control? I posed it on HCRealms and people are kind of up in the air over it. My local judge is fine with it, and if it really can work, I'm very likely going to use this with Rat King constantly!
Well, From what I can see they should work together under the new rules. The "as if he had a range value of 6" has to be considered a replacement value or the power will not work at all due to te "Rule of Zeroes". And since it sets his range value to 6 it would mean that he meets the prerequisites for the feat and take advantage of it's effect.
My take is a little different, but I could be wrong. When you build your Force, Rat King does not meet the prerequisite for the Ambidextrous Feat; he does not have 6 range... He only has that when using his "Pawns in My Game" special power. So, at Force construction, the Feat cannot be added, assigned and paid for if Rat King is to be the one using it. I could draw a parallel with Legendary Wielders from TMT. The reason those special objects don't count towards your force and can circumvent the "Uniqueness" rule is because they're not in the game yet; they will be added from outside the game when the game starts. Here, Rat King does not have 6 range. He will eventually have 6 range and only if he uses his special power in the game, not at force construction. In an unlikely scenario, you could even imagine Rat King's special power to be outwitted on every turn and he never would have met the Feat's prerequisite. Hope that helps.
A Feat's prerequisite only decides when the character can use it's effect. Character's didn't need to meet those prerequisites anywhere on it's dial to be assigned a Feat. However it would just be a waste of points if you didn't have any external effects that makes the character meet those prerequisites.
But what about this rule?
"If a feat requires you to choose one or more
characters on your force when assigning the feat,
you must make the choice when building your force" (p.21, 2014 Core Rulebook)
Since the cost of the Ambidextrous Feat is determined using the assigned character's range, I would have thought the character could not have a range of zero. It's not quite like most other feats... But, like I said, I could be wrong.
The Tabletop Teacher yeah. However it had recieved an errata that it has a minimum cost of 12. As stated in this post: www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8937511&postcount=6
hey TT -- great video...always helps...i thought you could use the passive powers like percision strike with Mind Control because it was worded in the same way as Hypersonic Speed...never the less, if you have some of the older stuff like gaurdians of the galaxy playing the black order theme team is a lot of fun because they have super giant who gets a +1 to attack and then can use mind control as a free action to target a character she hit with MC last turn...as always keep up the great work!
Thanks! And yes, the passive powers still work (as I mentioned in the video... maybe that didn't come out as clearly as I intended). Things like Precision Strike, the Knock Back part of Force Blast and Super Strength, the bonus to break away you get from certain powers and so on. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Morgan Le Fay from the old set with a 12 range and 3 lightning bolts, shes really a powerful piece now.
Shadow King was the MVP of one of my last games. Had my friend really hating him after awhile.
With the new Mind Control rules, Shadow King's power should pretty much be what Mind Control is for every other character now (unless there's something I'm reading wrong). Before the 2017 rules, you could give the mind-controlled character ACTIONs, but not anymore. Must have been a lot of fun, though! Thanks for sharing.
Jervis tetch is great, I also love Pro-X in rare from Xavier School
So how does avx prof x "
I CAN'T LET YOU DO THIS: " work now? Do they still get the tokens?
TTT, would you mind going over the ROC world championship team, 2017. I've been playing since the beginning, but cost and availability limit me from playing a team like that. So meta gaming at that level is a bit over my head. Thnaks
Wish I could help you... I'm nowhere near being a meta player, myself. I'm a passionate player who, I hope, can help other people enjoy the game ;o). And I have the same problem you do regarding meta pieces... I don't have several of the game elements from the World Champion's team. Have you seen Happy Little Heroclix's take on the team? th-cam.com/video/a_N2nbCXSKk/w-d-xo.html A fantastic Heroclix channel!
Hey TT nice video, like the way you present everything great work. We got into a discussion with a friend about using blades claws fang during mind control, correct me if im wrong, but i understand that is a passive power that gets triggered when you make a close attack, Cold be the same with precision strike, penetrating, pe psy and the new rule for exploit weakness? Thanks
jeovives, actually, the attack a mind-controlled character makes is « unpowered ». B/C/F can only be activated when a character is given a CLOSE action, which does not apply to the mind-controlled attack. In the ones you mention, only Precision Strike would apply because it doesn’t reference a RANGE or CLOSE action.
Am I mistaken or was the older rules that you could use a character's dial powers when mind controlled? That kinda made more sense since you're controlling a character that has certain powers, so you should be able to use them... but then again, maybe if you actually control someone's mind, but you don't have the same powers, you wouldn't know how to use them.
That's correct. The advantage now is that every Mind Controlled character gets a chance to move and attack or even attack and move.
All about that Brother Voodoo, Still the best.
Oooh... So many possible nice free actions! Indeed, a very interesting figure. Thanks for sharing.
What if you mind control someone with mystics? Does the character with mind control get damage? Also, what if you mind control a character who then attacks someone with mystics, does the mind controller get damage or the mind controlled character who attacked?
Oh lord, I need to check but I don't think I have any characters yet with Mind Control. If I do, I haven't used them. I'm still very new to this but watching your videos has been such a great resource. Here's the nasty thing I instantly thought of and am super curious if it's possible.
Mind Control an opposing character with multiple range bolts and have them attack their own Mystic(s). (Assuming that was your opposing team). How cruel and fun would that be? Would the Mystic team ability still apply or would they become friendly in the space between attacking and the TA kicking in?
Very curious, as I said I'm still learning but that seems fun. Now imagine if you could control a power in that scenario too, say Pulse Wave..
Are you certain about the dual target mind control. I thought that you resolve each part of the action separately, and that if you mind control two targets, each one is friendly during their portion of the action, but not he other figure's portion.
Yup, I'm certain. Since the characters are all hit simultaneously by the Mind Control, they all become friendly at the same time (there's no rule that allows you to decide which would be friendly or not and at which moment). Then, one of those characters completes the move and/or attack instructions and reverts forces. You cannot move both or attack with both and then do the other instruction (or perhaps I misread your comment). 1. All hit characters become friendly and halve speed. 2. Choose a character to move/attack first; it reverts forces. 3. The next character can then do its move/attack thing. Hope that helps!
According to Wizkids: "A question that quickly arose was “Does it work the same with multiple targets?” The new rulebook will make it clear that you resolve each “hit character” effect sequentially, and that each character only joins your force for the time that you are moving and attacking with them, so they can still “bash each other”, just like now."
What I thought that mean was, you hit two opponent figures (say Sabretooth and Mystique) and mins control both. Sebretooth can still attach Mistique and Mistique can still attack Sabretooth. Each may have been mind controlled at the same time, but they resolve their actions separately.
Hmm... That's a good point from that article that was published in March. I have these videos checked by an extremely reliable source before publishing them so they can pick up on that type of thing. I will check again and come back to you on that. Thanks for quoting that text... If the video needs correcting, I will publish an updated version as soon as I can. Thanks again!
I maybe wrong. After all, the quote says it used to be like that as well, but most judges told me it wasn't. I'm still digesting the new rules.
OK... So I got confirmation from my sources at WizKids that what was said in the video is correct. But that was an excellent point and question, thanks! Glad we cleared that up.
I’m a new player, and I’m a bit confused by this power, since it’s classified under “Speed”. Do I use the character’s Speed value to attack, or their Attack value?
I guess somebody already has answered this to you... Anyway, the rule says that you have to make a close or range attack, so you will have to use your attack value. Yes, it is a speed value, and yes, it doesn't make any sense at all but well, it's not the 1st that happens XD
What are all the powers and ablilites that can be used by a mind controlled character other than presicion strike?
Everything that does not require an action or triggers of the character being given an action.
So a character with Leap/Climb can make close combat attacks against characters on other elevations, Plasticity will grant +2 to a break away roll, Force Blast will make the attack have KNOCKBACK and so on.
Oh, and effects from things like, equipment, relics, resources and such cannot be used while under the effect of mind control.
Thanks!
Johan is correct (and very helpful... his answers are quicker than mine ;o), Thanks all for watching and participating in the comments!
Question? can a Green Lantern with the lantern Team ability carry the opposing characters if he was mind controlled?
The green lantern would be friendly to the mind controller's force and could therefore carry other characters, including the mind controller, on that force. However it could not carry characters from it's original force as it would be considered opposing to them while affected by mind control.
Sweet thank you!
Johan is correct! Thank you both for your participation in the comments.
Holy smokes!!
Hela is good for mind control
Did they do away with "feedback" damage from Mind Controlling a character, or combination of characters totalling 150 points or more?
Yes, the feedback damage is gone.
Thanks! I did find the answer in one of the new rules 2017 videos after all.
Very nice, mind control got better dont forget purple man.....hehehahaha
I love Purple Man... He got seriously nerfed, though. His Mastermind variant now requires the opposing characters to be adjacent. It makes sense, but it's nowhere near as strong as before. He'll always have a special place in my heart, though. As villains go, he's one of the best.
Yeah it hurts my soul how much they nerfed purple man, I loved team building around him
Can a mind control piece use prob if it has prob?
Indeed, and it's quite useful.
In 1 vs 1 matches can a mind controlled opponent attack himself?
Sorry for the late reply... The answer is super short. No ;o). A character is friendly to itself. A mind-controlled character can't attack itself no more than any of your characters could attack themselves. When there's a single opposing character left on the battlefield, Mind Control is rarely a good option (unless you want to move that character in a specific position).
I'm new player, i use karma, she can hit 3 caracteres
Hey. Could you make a break away video
can you mind control your ally character?
Not with the standard power, because it's an attack and you cannot attack friendly characters. Some characters have special powers that allow you to use Mind Control on friendly characters, though. Black Talon, from the first Deadpool set, is very interesting in that respect considering all the new Undead figures that are now available. He could use Mind Control on up to 3 friendly lower-point characters with the Monster keyword.
thanks a lot
purple man or poison ivy
Great choices (although, Purple Man has been significantly nerfed).
Hi