Tastefully reviewed as always. Yes it's a good game, but it still gets trumped by Lords of Waterdeep. The Valhalla expansion adds enough to the game to make it almost essential. Thanks for your time and expertise, game on!
@@JustACuteFox what is the core of your dislike of LoW? Is it the theme, lack of variety or it's over simplistic mechanisms? I find that it is a very polarizing game, players either love it or hate it. I would also be interested in hearing what your choices are for "good" worker placement games. Thank you for your thoughts, Garry.
@@garryknox1614 LoW is worker placement in name only. Contracts can be indefinitely claimed by players, and resources can be indefinitely hoarded in unlimited amounts, which in combination creates a game where nothing matters. Someone took the spot you wanted? Take it next turn. Doesn't matter. It is a huge amount of just going through very clear motions where every piece has an easy and direct conversion to points, where players are ultimately hoping to luck out on grabbing the contracts that score slightly more efficiently than the others. And then they slapped some random take-that quests in the deck to make it even worse. Compare this with LoW's closest cousin -- Stone Age -- and there is no contest. Both games feature collecting basic resources in order to fulfill contracts. However, in Stone Age, all these contracts (huts) are only ever publicly available. You can't reserve them for your leisure. Thus, it is always a race to get the ones you need. On top of that, the resource collection is backed with a really fun risk/reward system where one allocates more or less workers onto resource locations depending on how much of it they need. Additionally, there are multiple core worker placement locations that are critical and fought over from turn to turn because the game is inherently tighter and the opportunity costs matter. There is, in my opinion, no reason to play LoW when Stone Age exists. And that isn't even getting into the true marvels of worker placement. Bus, Caylus, Agricola, Kanban, Keyflower. There are so many mediocre worker placement games that it is easy to miss all the greats.
After playing with Valhalla I’ll never play any other way! Makes the game much more strategic and dying on purpose for certain rewards! I’ll never play without it! Plus having the leader die and another power, etc. definitely wanna know what you think when you try that.
@@BoardGameBollocks Indeed, I get that - I think my group(s) tend to spread out the 'troll love', so to speak, so I can often get in there on the boats.
I love Champions of Midgard. It's especially good with both expansions. After playing the newest expansion for Lost Ruins of Arnak, the 2-player co-op campaign one, I find myself wishing GreyFox games would return to Champions and create something similar.
From what I gather it’s a best bits type thing. The modular board is the element that intrigues me the most and the cartoony artwork is the thing that I admire the least.
@@BoardGameBollocks Agree on the art, also not sure about the new bidding which seems to have been 'streamlined' when that's the best bit of the game, it's so beautifully petty.
Just to throw another spanner in the works, have you played Reavers of Midgard? It is a euro approach to the Midgard viking games. Might be more satisfying if you are looking for a deeper more mechanical experience.
Couldn’t agree more with this. Valhalla addresses the punishing aspect of losing all your warriors through luck in dice rolls. Made it rise greatly in my view
Valhalla is essential. It makes Midgard a much better game (and I like it vanilla) - it's like the Scoundrels of Skull port expansion for Water deep in that way. I also like Dark Mountains. I like playing with both expansions tbh
Good video, as always. I'm willing to give CoM a pass with regards to the theme as it's not really about raiding and pillaging, but rather about defending your hometown - so you could say, not your typical Viking fare.
Yeah Champions of Midgard is still great. As everyone says this game is best with the Valhalla expansion. This one also works well for getting your friends sucked in to board gaming .
I still do not understand why many of the same people who try to cancel some historical themed games or demand that they be replaced with cartoon animals, have a double standard when it comes to Viking games. Personally, I love Viking games and many other historical themed games. However there is a double standard in board game social media with themes like Vikings or say Qin Shi Huangdi in China where those games are acceptable but others are not.
I guess raping and pillaging in England and enacting Danelaw by force isn’t as extreme as the Conquistador atrocities. Maybe the English are seen to deserve it? After all most movie villains have an English accent…
@@BoardGameBollocks or forcing hundreds of thousands of Chinese peasants to build the Great Wall of China, I think the estimates are over 400,000 died.
While no one should feel outraged about depictions of historical events, the vikings likely get a pass because they raped, looted and killed white people.
From what I’ve seen… Pros - Modular board, decent minis, auction streamlined. Cons - Too expensive, lacks content from expansions, no kemet crossover. I’ve not backed it yet. Still on the fence.
Well the bits and bobs look quite nice if a bit busy. Beyond that I have no interest in a worker placement game with minimal player interaction, crowdfunded expansions and a guaranteed tight finish on victory points. The EAPs love it, good luck to them.
@@BoardGameBollocksI have in the past been unkind by referring to Eurogamers as SLEUG-lovers, or sheep-rearers. I am having a try to be more inclusive and non-judgemental by substituting the term EAP (= Eurogame Attracted Person).
Champions of Midgard vs. Lords of Waterdeep I noticed in your "top 100 of 2023" you ranked Champions of Midgard # 14 and Lords of Waterdeep # 31, but here you say CoM isn't better than LoW. I'am curious why they switched places. Has the expansions for CoM made the difference or has the game just grown on you in the time between those videos?
Play with the expansions, especially Valhalla. It makes the game infinitely better. Please do another video after playing with the expansions. It would be a shame for anyone curious about this game being persuaded not to play it based on a video that hasn't experienced how great this game is with the expansions. Expansion, expansions, how many times can I type expansions!
To me, there is no real difference between fantasy and mythology....except for fantasy is completely artificial while mythology are things people believed in up to thousands of years ago. (...while basic fantasy almost uses all kind of mythological stuff....well why reinvent the wheel ;-) ) I mean, rename vikings and valhalla and you have a fantasy instead of a viking theme, WHILE in this game it's not about vikings in history (like feast for Odin) but an otherworldly setting. Take the movie "the 13th warrior". That is hardly any historical viking stuff but a mythological almost fantasy setting....except for only by mid of the movie you realize that there is no fantasy/mythology elements at all but those "creatures" are just a kind of cult. You can find all kind of elements especialy from greek and viking mythology in all kind of fantasy settings. No matter if the game takes place in a different world or in an alternative earth setting....it's still no historical setting. Just my two cents why to me Lords of Waterdeep and Champions of Midgard dont have very different themes/settings. As German I also wonder why the old tribes of Germans all almost always presented as barbarians....still that doenst make me dislike those movies/games.... ;-)
Watching this even though I know I like this game, and own everything for it. You're content is very entertaining.
Cheers mate 👍🏻
love your camera shots of the game. always make any game look cooler than they really are.
Tastefully reviewed as always. Yes it's a good game, but it still gets trumped by Lords of Waterdeep. The Valhalla expansion adds enough to the game to make it almost essential. Thanks for your time and expertise, game on!
Considering I find LoW to be one of the worst worker placement games available, that doesn't bode well for this game.
If that’s true I’d be interested to know what the best ones are in your opinion.
@@JustACuteFox what is the core of your dislike of LoW? Is it the theme, lack of variety or it's over simplistic mechanisms? I find that it is a very polarizing game, players either love it or hate it. I would also be interested in hearing what your choices are for "good" worker placement games. Thank you for your thoughts, Garry.
@@garryknox1614 LoW is worker placement in name only. Contracts can be indefinitely claimed by players, and resources can be indefinitely hoarded in unlimited amounts, which in combination creates a game where nothing matters. Someone took the spot you wanted? Take it next turn. Doesn't matter. It is a huge amount of just going through very clear motions where every piece has an easy and direct conversion to points, where players are ultimately hoping to luck out on grabbing the contracts that score slightly more efficiently than the others. And then they slapped some random take-that quests in the deck to make it even worse.
Compare this with LoW's closest cousin -- Stone Age -- and there is no contest. Both games feature collecting basic resources in order to fulfill contracts. However, in Stone Age, all these contracts (huts) are only ever publicly available. You can't reserve them for your leisure. Thus, it is always a race to get the ones you need. On top of that, the resource collection is backed with a really fun risk/reward system where one allocates more or less workers onto resource locations depending on how much of it they need. Additionally, there are multiple core worker placement locations that are critical and fought over from turn to turn because the game is inherently tighter and the opportunity costs matter. There is, in my opinion, no reason to play LoW when Stone Age exists.
And that isn't even getting into the true marvels of worker placement. Bus, Caylus, Agricola, Kanban, Keyflower. There are so many mediocre worker placement games that it is easy to miss all the greats.
@@BoardGameBollocks See my response to Garry, above.
Thanks! Champions is one of my favorites.
After playing with Valhalla I’ll never play any other way! Makes the game much more strategic and dying on purpose for certain rewards! I’ll never play without it! Plus having the leader die and another power, etc. definitely wanna know what you think when you try that.
Brilliant upload mate
👍🏻
I actually choose Gylfir if I can, I like not having to pay for those ship actions, means I can save that gold for the additional worker etc.
You have to make sure your first which is a pain when everyone is going for the troll
@@BoardGameBollocks Indeed, I get that - I think my group(s) tend to spread out the 'troll love', so to speak, so I can often get in there on the boats.
I had quite a bit of troll love in the 90s…dodged a few bullets back then
love this game, with all the expansions and extra cards its rly rly nice
I love Champions of Midgard. It's especially good with both expansions.
After playing the newest expansion for Lost Ruins of Arnak, the 2-player co-op campaign one, I find myself wishing GreyFox games would return to Champions and create something similar.
One of my favorite worker placement games. Using Viking minis to replace the meeeples upgrades it.
As a huge fan of Cyclades are you going to get the new version ? Im tempted but don't want to KS, I'm assuming it'll cone to retail...hope so anyway.
Yes mate. No brainer
It seems to have folded in Titans which I've never tried
From what I gather it’s a best bits type thing.
The modular board is the element that intrigues me the most and the cartoony artwork is the thing that I admire the least.
@@BoardGameBollocks Agree on the art, also not sure about the new bidding which seems to have been 'streamlined' when that's the best bit of the game, it's so beautifully petty.
Bidding is now incremental. Not sure I can afford the asking price. The 2 lower tiered games look crap.
Very worth it. In my unbiased Viking opinion. Excellent worker placement. Battle is best.✊
Just to throw another spanner in the works, have you played Reavers of Midgard? It is a euro approach to the Midgard viking games. Might be more satisfying if you are looking for a deeper more mechanical experience.
I’ve not played it mate.
The Valhalla expansion makes the game significantly better by offsetting the luck of the dice with rewards for losing warriors in battle.
We have Dark Mountains and Valhalla is on it’s way from the US.
I would never play without Valhalla. What a great game with it.
Couldn’t agree more with this. Valhalla addresses the punishing aspect of losing all your warriors through luck in dice rolls. Made it rise greatly in my view
Valhalla is essential. It makes Midgard a much better game (and I like it vanilla) - it's like the Scoundrels of Skull port expansion for Water deep in that way. I also like Dark Mountains. I like playing with both expansions tbh
Good video, as always. I'm willing to give CoM a pass with regards to the theme as it's not really about raiding and pillaging, but rather about defending your hometown - so you could say, not your typical Viking fare.
Yeah Champions of Midgard is still great. As everyone says this game is best with the Valhalla expansion. This one also works well for getting your friends sucked in to board gaming .
I still do not understand why many of the same people who try to cancel some historical themed games or demand that they be replaced with cartoon animals, have a double standard when it comes to Viking games. Personally, I love Viking games and many other historical themed games. However there is a double standard in board game social media with themes like Vikings or say Qin Shi Huangdi in China where those games are acceptable but others are not.
I guess raping and pillaging in England and enacting Danelaw by force isn’t as extreme as the Conquistador atrocities.
Maybe the English are seen to deserve it? After all most movie villains have an English accent…
@@BoardGameBollocks or forcing hundreds of thousands of Chinese peasants to build the Great Wall of China, I think the estimates are over 400,000 died.
Maybe if I cry on video things may change 🤷♂️
While no one should feel outraged about depictions of historical events, the vikings likely get a pass because they raped, looted and killed white people.
Even better when using Blood Rage minis with it.
Nice review. How do you think it compares to Raiders of the North Sea?
It’s a better game by far.
The viking theme overused and boring? I'm mortally offended but can't really argue against it.
As someone who has Cyclades as his top 1 game, can you give us your opinion on the new Cyclades legendary edition kickstarter?
From what I’ve seen…
Pros - Modular board, decent minis, auction streamlined.
Cons - Too expensive, lacks content from expansions, no kemet crossover.
I’ve not backed it yet. Still on the fence.
@@BoardGameBollocks I'm in so far. But that only means it's gonna be another two years at least until i will finally play Cyclades.
Well the bits and bobs look quite nice if a bit busy. Beyond that I have no interest in a worker placement game with minimal player interaction, crowdfunded expansions and a guaranteed tight finish on victory points. The EAPs love it, good luck to them.
What’s an EAP, pray tell…
@@BoardGameBollocksI have in the past been unkind by referring to Eurogamers as SLEUG-lovers, or sheep-rearers.
I am having a try to be more inclusive and non-judgemental by substituting the term EAP (= Eurogame Attracted Person).
Oh a bit like FGHG (Fortune And Glory Hate Group)
What do you think of it as a 2 player game? 😊
Not played it 2 player but it would appear the game is more open as it is in LOWD
Champions of Midgard vs. Lords of Waterdeep
I noticed in your "top 100 of 2023" you ranked Champions of Midgard # 14 and Lords of Waterdeep # 31, but here you say CoM isn't better than LoW.
I'am curious why they switched places.
Has the expansions for CoM made the difference or has the game just grown on you in the time between those videos?
Play with the expansions, especially Valhalla. It makes the game infinitely better. Please do another video after playing with the expansions. It would be a shame for anyone curious about this game being persuaded not to play it based on a video that hasn't experienced how great this game is with the expansions. Expansion, expansions, how many times can I type expansions!
We have them now. And you’re right.
Sold it. We play mostly two-player and the game feels very repetitive with two, the expansion does not change that.
Constantly being berated in the game rules bit is surprisingly therapeutic for me..
Firm but fair…
@@BoardGameBollocks more firm than fair.. but hey, I'll subscribe for genuinely enjoying this format. Keep the bollocks coming mate!
Always worth it
Unbutton that top button
No
To me, there is no real difference between fantasy and mythology....except for fantasy is completely artificial while mythology are things people believed in up to thousands of years ago.
(...while basic fantasy almost uses all kind of mythological stuff....well why reinvent the wheel ;-) )
I mean, rename vikings and valhalla and you have a fantasy instead of a viking theme, WHILE in this game it's not about vikings in history (like feast for Odin) but an otherworldly setting.
Take the movie "the 13th warrior". That is hardly any historical viking stuff but a mythological almost fantasy setting....except for only by mid of the movie you realize that there is no fantasy/mythology elements at all but those "creatures" are just a kind of cult.
You can find all kind of elements especialy from greek and viking mythology in all kind of fantasy settings.
No matter if the game takes place in a different world or in an alternative earth setting....it's still no historical setting.
Just my two cents why to me Lords of Waterdeep and Champions of Midgard dont have very different themes/settings.
As German I also wonder why the old tribes of Germans all almost always presented as barbarians....still that doenst make me dislike those movies/games.... ;-)