SCAR 20S vs SCAR 17S Accuracy Test - I didn't expect this!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
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The SCAR 20S is a "precision rifle" but just how precise is it? We find out by comparing its accuracy to the SCAR 17S. The SCAR 20 SST is used by the US military in .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor. We shoot the civilian version, the SCAR 20S against the SCAR 17S and see if you get $1,000 worth of accuracy improvement or not with the SCAR 20S.
0:00 Opening of video
1:56 Brief discussion about the SCAR 17S
5:43 Accuracy testing of the SCAR 17S
7:09 Discussion about the SCAR 20S and breakdown of features
11:28 Accuracy testing of the SCAR 20S
13:03 Review of the SCAR 17S accuracy performance
14:19 Review of the SCAR 20S accuracy performance and comparison to SCAR 17S
16:56 Comparison of SCAR accuracy vs. a Daniel Defense DD5V3 AR10
17:42 Discussion of accuracy and differences and the use of different rests with the SCAR 20S
19:44 How a silencer made a difference in the SCAR 20S's performance
#SCAR17 #SCAR20 #Accuracy - บันเทิง
FN: "Don't suppress our guns or we will void your warranty."
Also FN...Builds rifles that shoot better suppressed.
Thanks for the info as always.
Yep. “Using .308 Win rounds WILL VOID your warranty” as well..STRAIGHT FROM FN Rep. Granted it’s written in the manual..calls for “7.62 X 51” specifically
@@m118lr Yeah, they seem to be looking for any reason at all to void your warranty. Not very confidence inspiring. Thanks for watching.
@Military Arms Channel FNH must be the acronym in Flemish or French for “Hates Kustomers”.
@@m118lr That is absolutely ridiculous...he wasn't talking about reloaded or remanufactured .308 or anything? I understand the idea of covering your ass from liability, but man it sounds like they are getting really, really asinine over there at FN.
@@bravo0105 It's looking more and more that way, sadly.
A video on how suppressors can make guns more or less accurate would be a video I would be very interested in watching.
Garand thumb
I had a similar accuracy problem with my SCAR 20s and found the torque on barrel mount bolts on the right side to be “off” spec. Tightening to the correct specs helped. Adding my AAC suppressor makes it shoot 1/2 min consistently. Love the rifle btw. Great videos
You know, I find very few people who actually know about this issue AND do regular maintenance to ensure the screws don't come out of torque specs. I really think this is the source of most "accuracy issues" encountered by SCAR owners and users.
Great work here Tim. Thanks again for being an honest reviewer.
Thank you sir for an Awesome video! I’ve been waiting for this one. I also like the Mountain Dew and Baby Yoda in the background! Semper Fi!
Water > soda
Great review MAC! I was looking at a 20S on the shelf of my local gun shop after renting a 17s. I fell in love with the 17 and it lived up to my expectations. I'd rather get a 17 and get the ACR adjustable stock with that super SCAR trigger.
Excellent work! You provided some info that could not have been uncovered without testing. This is work with real value. Thank you!
Thank you, I'm glad you found it useful. It was an interesting learning experience for us too. Thanks for watching.
This is why he traded in the 20S for the 17S.
I don't think he shot the 20S. It had no signs of being fired. Thanks for watching.
@@Militaryarmschannel hey Tim, do you plan to post a video on the new atf rules on reclassifying frames and receivers. I noticed the atf has still not opened it up for comments. Seems like they aim to make everyone serialize uppers, 80% frames and receivers including those already in circulation
@@Militaryarmschannel Probably cleaned really well. Factory test fire should show some brass residue on the bolt face.
Why didn't President Trump disband or defund the A.T.F. ???
Good Lawd those are some gorgeous rifles! Good shooting M.A.C.!
Great to see the Irish DPM. Spent plenty of years in it. All the best from an irish subscriber...
As usual, thanks for the great video and all of your hard work.
Thank you and thanks for watching!
Always love these “high end” gun tests😎✌️. I get 1MOA out of my Savage Axis II using PMC bronze 168gr with the cheap optic that came on the gun. All day.
Yeh u don't gotta spend much now for a moa or less bolt gun
Very interesting. Thanks for putting a can on the 20S and providing that data!
I have a scar 17 and a 16. Both upgraded the trigger and added extra rails to the 17. Love the weight of both. Have considered adding a 20 to my collection but feels like from what i have read changing my optic from a leupold mk6 1-6 to a 3-18 they both can do the same thing
thank you for the video tim!! keep the video's coming!!
Thank you for watching!
Great video! I've been watching for years and will keep the bell ringing! Thanks!
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing, great testing and comparison.
Thank you for watching.
Usually me after watching a MAC video: "shut up and take my money!"
Me after this video:
"meh, I'll invest my money."
Thats the truth, when I am looking to buy a gun, I always check MAC and then weigh his input on the item.
In crypto? 😀 Thanks for watching!
@@Militaryarmschannel 😂😂
It would appear Mac found the reason they changed the twist rate on the 20, so I wouldn't buy with the 1:12 twist barrels but would consider ones with the 1:10... That said the only thing keeping these out of my hands is that cost... Damn right I'm investing, grow what I got now so I can afford what I want later.
@@stefanmolnapor910 Thank you.
Awesome! Just what i wanted and there is content online
I was so close to buying one but hesitated. Kinda glad I did even though I still would like one.
Excellent video as always.
Thank you and thanks for watching.
I just absolutely love the bombshell addition to the video at the end! And the fact that tim couldn't let his hunch rest and had to test the scar20s with a can on it, very important consumer advice! is it really worth the extra $1k spend ? i don't think so.. especially not with what Ar15's are capable of nowadays especially the daniel defence DD5V3. Thanks for the amazing content as always M.A.C much love from myself my family and to you guys.
Thank you, brother. We greatly appreciate your support!
Tim's collection is so extensive. he just pulls out gems all the time
It would be interesting to see how the SCAR17S with the 20" barrel that FNH sells for it performs against the SCAR20S.
Awesome info, great video
Thank you and thanks for watching!
Very interesting! Thank you MAC!
Thank you and thanks for watching!
I was dead set on getting a 20S until this video. I will get a DD AR-10 now. Thanks, Tim! Honest reviews as always!
Or a POF Revolution. More compact than a normal AR-10.
I think you'll really enjoy the DD5V3. I've also had good luck with the Sig 716i Tread which is like $1500. I would say the DD is more versatile with regards to ammo types and how well it shoots a variety of loads than the Sig. Thanks for watching.
I love the shout out to GA Precision. Had a GAP-10 built a couple of years ago and the accuracy out of that gas gun is ridiculous.
I’ve wanted a GAP10 in 6.5CM forever.
@@Militaryarmschannel I had mine built specifically for m118lr because I had plenty of ammo already, and now with the state of ammo I am extremely happy I made that decision. I would like another in 6.5 but I'm not a very patient person when it comes to waiting on builds
I’d love Tim to get his hands on a GAP10 and hear his thoughts. I’ve got a GAP bolt gun that’s just stupid accurate. Much more accurate than I’m able to shoot.
@@loganyoung2408 he would manage to get the only lemon that GA Precision ever produced
Hope to see the Barrett REC10 someday. Very intresting vid again!
Greets, T.
Thank you and thanks for watching!
Had one and gave it back to the factory. Super over gassed and charging handle was reciprocating. Factory couldn't even figure out what was wrong with it. Their customer service was good, but the rifle wasn't even close to par for what I thought were Barrett standards. It was a huge disappointment. Found others online who had similar issues with it cycling properly.
@@forgeyourpotential7202 : sorry to hear that. Had high hopes for that rifle. Thanks for your reply, appreciate it. Greets, T.
It makes sense that adding the suppressor to the SCAR helped the accuracy because SCARs are know to have very bad harmonics. Adding a suppressor theoretically helps the harmonics and therefore helps the accuracy. I have experienced this with a SCAR 17.
why not just add shock absorbing material. It would make sense to remove any kind of vibration to allow the bullet to have a smoother flight.
Cool to see you wearing the Irish DPM camo! Love from Ireland!!
Too bad he has the Irish flag patch upside down
@@callme_eeeth That kinda makes sense considering the state of Ireland nowdays...
Thanks
No, thank YOU! 🇺🇸
@@Militaryarmschannel thank all of you, 6 ways till the first quarter of next of month.
I would love to see a Scar 17s vs B&T APC 308 video or even throw a Daniel Defense DD5 in there just to see how they stack up to each other. Always enjoy your videos!
I can't do the APC 308 but I can do the DD5V3. Thanks for watching.
Great review!
Agreed, suppressed makes a huge difference with the 17. And if anyone is worried about overpressure issues and increased wear, a quick gas jet change and a Hi desert dog recoil buffer helps save the rear trunion/hinge. Good piece of insurance especially if you are running a ACR style stock with an aluminum hinge.
MAC has dead eye,love the content keep it up👍👍👍👍
Thank you and thanks for watching!
I like watching your content because I'm an absolute gun nut and build a gun out of legos each week
I’m really glad you decided to throw the can on it, very interesting results.
Yeah, me too. It totally changed the gun for me and my opinion of it.
I have used both 16” and 20” scar 17 with the same Nightforce glass as DMRs. They both have the same accuracy but the 20” variants had a longer range capability. The 20” required less elevation rotations on the nighthforces to reach the same range as the 16”. The scopes on the 16” would run out of elevation before the 20”.
That's the 150fps difference giving you a bit more range especially with 175's.
@@Militaryarmschannel yea. We swapped out all the 16” barrels for the 20”s. I also found the 16s were too light in certain situations. More recoil on the bipod made follow up shots slower.
Same here.
Thank you for an excellent review.
You covered all key aspects of the rifles, easy to understand, and well thought out.
Great vid MAC !
Thank you!
Was in Copper the other day, wife thinks she saw you walk in (I was too busy looking at stuff I can’t afford). Bought my first .308 rifle the other day and this video has me thinking about future upgrades.
I'm sorry I missed you! If you're in the shop and see me, please, stop me and say hello. I hope to see you in the shop, thanks for shopping there.
Well done video thank you!
thanks for update in the end ; that was what i want to know about scar 20s
Thanks for sticking around until the end. :D
Great video thank you
Another priceless video...
I have a 17S with a Geissele trigger and my results were about the same. I shoot 5 shot groups and was getting 1 MOA or slightly larger groups with FGMM. 168 and 175 were about the same. I also have a built AR308 with a Kreiger 20” that shoots .3 MOA with my reloads but it’s 5 pounds heavier then the 17.
nice shots
Very interesting review. I see much better accuracy from my 20 than my 17 especially when pushing past 300 yds. And that’s after changing the trigger out in the 17.
Same here.
You are throwing numbers out there and I am glad you have done that. You confirmed my experience. The 7.62X51 Federal Gold Medal Match ammo I have chronographs at 2585 FPS out of the 20" barrel. That helps at long range. The 1.5 MOA groups are what I experience too and the 7.62X51 ammo does have a few wild shots once in a while. Thanks for confirming that I am not the only one doing that.
The M118 ammo shoots at 2535 FPS and the Federal .308 leaves the barrel at 2490 FPS. That was a surprise coming out of the 7..62X51 barrel. I do find that my groups tighten up if I shoot more quickly instead of taking a lot of time. That may be my cheek weld though. Thanks for the review.
Perhaps the outcomes reached with this accuracy test if the 1:12 twist are why FN decided to scrap it and move to the 1:10? Would like to see the same accuracy test performed with the new version.
Damn that 17 shoots good! I didn’t expect that.
Good information, thanks!
Thank you for this. I thought about purchasing the Scar 20S but now I see it’s just a brand.
I have a SCAR 20S with a 1:12 twist and my OSS Helix is about 2 months away from clearing the ATF paperwork. I’ve been reloading and heading toward 150gn to find the best load. 175gn bullets don’t group well for me but 168 went much better. I’ll check back later after I use the Helix and have time to test the lighter rounds.
So you noticed better groups with the 168 grain? I seem to do that too at 100 yards but the ballistic coefficient and velocity out of the barrel cause issues after 600 yards. The bullet goes transonic at 900 yards or less depending on temperature and pressure and the groups spread out pretty good. The 175 grain Federal 7.62X51 round has a bigger group at 100 but seems to settle down after 600 yards and keeps that 1.5 MOA out to 1,000.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that FN CHF barrels require a bit of "burnishing" the chrome lining in the barrel before accuracy settles to consistent repeatable results. This is the case with all my FN CHF AR-15 barrels(over 10 before the boating accident), almost as if they settle in about 300-500 rounds and then I can set a watch by their performance. But at 5k, they need to do that before it hits the shelves.
@Romeo Boom I was thinking the same thing....if such "breaking in" is necessary in order for the barrel to produce repeatable, consistent accuracy, isn't there some way this could be done at the factory?
Of course, they'll come up with the excuse that if they did that, they'd have to raise their prices even more...lol
I’d like to see the scar 17 suppressed to see if it tightens up groups as well.
Watched again, thanks
I love the 3 way adjustable stock, that's ace.
Picked up a SCAR 20S in 6.5 Creedmoor. Had a major issue with being over gassed. Suppressed (sig and silencerco), even with the stock gas regulator in "suppresed" setting, it bucked hard. I had to work hard to get the 1/2 inch groups. Added an aftermarket gas regulator, and pow, soft recoil and easy all holes touching @100m. Plan on an after market gas regulator.
Pof rouge is a great choice it’s less than 6lbs with and empty mag. With a scope back up iron signs and a full mag 10 lbs
my scar is a touch over 10lbs with a freakn massive heavy vortex razor on it... sooooo and i have every stupid accessory. not sure what point your making here
I thinking of getting a scar 17s, then upon further research, I discovered the 20s. With this information, I'd probably be better off settling for an AR-10. This now taking the scar warranty and parts availability into consideration. Also, the AR-10 accepts the same triggers as the AR-15.
Nice shirt Tim!
Thank you and thanks for watching!
The issue w your scar 20 is the scope mounting or the scope itself. Mine was the same way until I got a Giselle mount and really tightened it down. I had a EoTech 5-25 and recently moved to Leupold Mark 6 and both worked fine. If your optic is not torqued down very tight or you have a crap optic (talking to you Vortex) you will have issues. Accuracy after tightening down the optic mount was just under 3/4moa with 168 grain ammo. Suppressing the 20 dropped it to 1-4-1/2 MOA. Suppressing makes the biggest difference cuz I was getting 1/2-3/4 MOA from bulk 147 grain ball ammo. It’s crazy. My old 17s was a 1-2 MOA gun depending on the ammo. I was running a QD Larue mount and my accuracy changed to 1moa when I moved to a Spuhr.
I suspect the 20s would start to come into it's own with the 1/10 barrel and 178s out at 500+, but as a 17s owner, I don't think I'll go for a 20s.
I would love to see how it does with just the muzzle device removed and no can. Also the 17 with can and without muzzle device. Great video!
Given our findings, there will be a follow-up along with comparisons to similar rifles. Thanks for watching.
Wow.... really interesting groups you got here!
Agreed, thanks for watching.
Love my 17. Geissele trigger in it. But took two white tail one season. First one around 175m or so. Second was a running shot away around 220 or so.
Cant speak for comparable accuracy for any DI ar's but I wanted something different than my countless ar's. Lefty friendly. Extremely light and I wouldn't get rid of it.
Exactly! ^v^
I put a geissele trigger on my 17s. Then added a Daniel Defense muzzle break for my DD wave suppressor. It’s my favorite rifle i currently own.
I have a SCAR 20S with the 1:10 twist. It was sub MOA with 150gr Federal Power shock surprisingly. It did not like 180s as much.
Interesting. The 1:10 should favor heavier bullets. Thanks for posting and watching.
Would love to see a video on the POF Revolution and compare it with the SCAR.
Agreed. POF makes outstanding rifles. My P308 is sub moa with hand loads. Probably 1.5 to 2 moa with cheap ammo I got off the shelf.
As always a great informative video. This is a lot of work for those who don't know about editing etc.
It is an interesting question now to me wondering if the newer rifle with the 1 in 10 rifling makes a difference unsuppressed. Not asking you to do a whole new video but just curious. They made that change (rifling) for a reason and after watching this video I think we know why. The performance of this rifle at 100 yard bone stock and unsuppressed is not very impressive unfortunately.
Many thanks for all of your efforts to bring us this content. Your presentation is excellent and much appreciated.
Thank you, Bill.
The 1:10 is better suited for 175gr bullets which FN was going for. It likely won't make that much of a difference by itself. They also changed the muzzle device which could have improved accuracy, I've seen muzzle devices degrade accuracy. I really want to shoot one in 6.5 Creedmoor since that's what the military is now using.
Thanks for watching.
Great video, very interesting and relevant to me. My 20S has the 1:12 twist barrel with the 3 prong flash hider. I wasn't even aware they had switched to a 1:10 twist and the pro-comp. I wonder how much louder they are with that brake compared to the 3 prong? I have the 5.56 pro-comp on my FN-15 DMR II and it's pretty loud, but I reckon the 7.62 version can't be any worse than the PWS brake that comes on the 17S. That damn thing straight up punishes people around you, and you can see it in the look on their faces. I was even told "You can't bring that thing in here" at one indoor range, lol.
Anyway, my experience with accuracy from the 17S and 20S has been exactly the opposite. I've owned the 17S for about 10 years now so I've shot it quite a bit with many different types of ammo. One of the 1st things I did was upgrade the trigger to the Super SCAR. My factory trigger was especially horrible, and I mean worse than any trigger I've ever experienced in any rifle. My group sizes shrank considerably after that.
I've only owned the 20S for a couple of years so I haven't been able to shoot it a whole lot yet. However, so far, it consistently shoots 1/2-3/4 MOA tighter groups than the 17S depending on the quality of ammo. They actually both shoot M80ish stuff pretty well, especially MEN 762A for some reason. I sure am glad I stockpiled several thousand rounds of that stuff at pre-covid prices now, looking back. I was able to get a solid, consistent 2 MOA at 200 yards out of it the last time I shot the 20S, which is slightly better than I was able to do before with the 17S. Sadly, that was in the fall of 2019.
I'm hoping to take a day off work and make the 2-hour drive from north of Atlanta to CMP Talladega again soon. It sucks living in an area where that's your best option to go to an outdoor rifle range that's worth a crap. I moved here from Texas, where they don't have such problems. Might have to move back there one day since Georgia seems to be turning into another toilet bowl full of blue water and turds judging by the most recent elections.
Looking forward to the next video!
The brake is going to be loud. It vectors gasses directly left and right of the shooter. If it increases accuracy it would be worth it, if it doesn't then I would say it's not worth it. Thanks for watching.
thank you Sir knowledge is power
Thank you for watching.
Cans = barrel weight = harmonics/barrel whip/node. My guns usually get better groups w/can. It's a trade off though, longer+weight. I have an older s.s. heavy can that always produces better groups vs. no can. Barrel attachment bolts/muzzle device torque also worth checking if shooting small groups. With your can attached that adds another thousand or so to an already fairly high end set up. I thought the 20s would print better with 1:10 twist along with the factory installed gieslle and no can.. Still enjoy my 1:12 twist 17s. I don't see a 20s in the future for me though$$$. Thanks Tim.
Love your videos!
Oh nooooo. Now I have to go watch the other video with it against the HK...🥰
I have a 17S. After first zeroing it with a 4.5-16x50mm Vortex Viper PST II mounted, I put 10 rounds of *REMANUFACTURED* 168 gr match from Freedom Munitions into .75”. It is consistently more accurate than my Ruger scout rifle-a bolt gun with a similar barrel length-using the same ammunition. Adding a suppressor diminished its accuracy, so I stopped doing that. Other than mounting the scope, the only modification I’ve made was to install a 3.5 lb single stage Timney trigger. At some point, I’m going to replace the optic with something more rugged, and smaller.
At the time this video was posted, I'm seeing the 17S up for sale at just over $3500, and the 20S for sale at $4000. Along with the longer and heavier profile barrel, when you consider the 20S comes with lots of upgrades like the Geissele SS, ergo buttstock, extended receiver rail, etc. that a lot of people add to the 17S anyway, it seems like there's no real reason to purchase the 17S unless you are concerned about weight and length. If the 17S was actually selling for $1k less than the 20S, I would agree that the 20S probably isn't worth the upcharge.
The heavy weight of 20s is actually a plus for me because I want to be able to "work out" while shooting (weird reason I know.)
Good reason*. If it’s not a cqb platform, I’d just attach everything to it.
Great info
Thank you and thanks for watching.
Love that you had yourself a little baby Grogu to protect 😁
Interesting as hell!
I thought so!
Hey POF X pistol is out. Would love a review from you. Love your channel.
I’m so dam happy I just stuck with what I know I built my rifle on a Aero receiver set. I went with Krieger for my barrel and bolt and I seriously am amazed. My gun will make 5 shot groups at 100 yards the size of a dime un suppressed
Impressive DD groups. Did it have better trigger and does a can make a difference. Looks like It. Great vid Tim.
The trigger in the DD5V3 is a fairly normal trigger, it's not a match trigger. Thank you and thanks for watching.
Im drooling over the seekins SP10
Most of the video's I have seen show little of accuracy on paper targets. They always are shooting steel. I bought the Scar 20s. The first two weeks I never shot it, but rather, I put my load out on it and take it out in the desert and ran and walked around with it, tried going prone with it, etc. I'm 65 years old and hauling that thing around was hard on me. 11.6 lbs to start, optic and full mag add 3.6 lbs =15.2 lbs. Same load out on the 17s runs 11.6lbs, to me that is big reduction. Fortunately, I didn't fire the weapon, and my shop was gracious enough to take it back and allow me the SCAR 17.
Not suggesting something you don’t already know Tim :-) , but longer barrel doesn’t always translate to more accuracy. It should render more velocity for sure, though if all the bits that are contacting the cartridge are effectively same... doubt we’d see anything all too different. Appreciate you guys pointing that out.
I didn't say a longer barrel improves accuracy. 😀It improves velocity. What FN did to "improve" accuracy was make the 20's barrel heavier and used 6 bolts to hold the barrel in vs. the 17's 4. The only way a longer barrel improves accuracy is when using iron sights and you increase the sight radius along with the barrel. Even that is subjective to the shooter though. Thanks for watching.
Wanna know how i got these SCARs!?
Random person at range minding their business: Stimulus Check?
Yeah......
I hope people are able to use their "stimulus" to buy firearms. If the government is going to bankrupt the US we might as well use the money to buy guns because we'll need them with the reset button gets hit when the US dollar becomes worthless. Thanks for watching.
Good good
Tim - would love to see you guys compare a current production SR-25 vs your HK or SCAR - just a little request!
I don't have a SR25 to test or I would!
These performance numbers are one of the reasons FN went to the better 1-10 Twist in newer Scar 20S rifles.
The group sizes don’t surprise me but the 20 definitely looked like it was hitting closer to point of aim. And maybe the better twist rate could even improve on the groups. But still the 17 is just lighter and better all around imo than the 20.
In other words, get you a gun that does both (The 17)
I think it would be interesting to see it fired with and without a suppressor with a high speed camera. Is it vibrations or just some variables with the muzzle and how the gas is behaving?
See, this is what I was thinking! Harmonics or something could definitely be coming into play here! I wish I had a camera that did better than 1/8 second slow motion or else I'd try to find out these answers on my own!
Hell yeah
He’s not lying! That GA Precision gap10-2 is a nail driver!
They're amazing rifles. Thanks for watching.
Would be interesting to see the 20S with a different flash hider and no suppressor.
Go LMT or Knights and move on. Love this sort of video MAC. Keep up the awesome content
I own 3 scars and I do like them, I bought them at a time when I didn't have a family and money was alot easier to come buy, after almost 10 years with multiple scars it's like you said, any decent ar will blow them out of the water for way less money.
What should you teste?
You should teste a fake suppressor with the same weight of your supressor to check if the tighten shots are because of the suppressor itself or because of the weight in the tipo of the barrel that just changes it oscilating characteristics.
Damn, that's impressive!
I agree, the end results were outstanding. Thanks for watching.
Do a new video on the best type of rifle to suppress, direct impingement, blow back, etc
I paid $4600 for my 17S with extra parts (Magpul mag compatible lower) and better trigger plus rail. It’s a Belgian gun too.