At this point, I could probably recite all of these acronyms and industry terms from memory while half asleep, but I still appreciate that you take the time to explain every single episode.
One of the things I like about watching your channel the most is your process/method of tracking the markets, how you keep yourself informed, it's teaching me to teach my myself and that seriously powerful man, so thank you for that!
The longer this goes on, the more evident it is becoming that this cycle is following the same path as all other historical cycles, just based on larger price numbers. 1% of 1.5mil is a bigger drop than 1% of 500k. At the end of it it will be based on the percentages which will add up to a larger price drop before the plateau. Outside of certian parts of Vancouver and Toronto where the worldwide rich choose to reside, the rest of the country's real rstate will correct over several years to 4x local income. Everyone just rode the wave up, made some money, and exited. As we pass into 2025 all speculators that have not exited will be bag holders. As i said, its the same historically every time, just based on bigger numbers because of great marketing by the real estate association.
Another good one. Who's able to exert this kind of editorial influence? I wonder what CREA is spending in advertising on these platforms. Thanks for the hard work.
Why the sept numbers are low ? Answer is apart from .25 point decrease , bank also declared that MORE and BIGGER rate cuts are coming ( in oct and dec ) . Plus rates will go down under 3 eventually in 2025 . So knowing this , why a sane buyer not wait for more rate cuts to secure a mortgage ? Same for seller , some of them ‘ terminated ‘ their listing to revive in dec . Clearly 2 things will happen in coming months : 1. Sept Oct Nov sale numbers will stay low 2. The sales and house prices are going up in Jan feb period owing to rate cuts ( almost as low as 3-4 % ). RE markets works on Fenzy and Fomo.
I'm not timing the market. I would simply never take my savings and put it in real estate at these prices. Renting is not a loss, it's an expense. Buying a house would result in a loss
Please explain to me how buying a house is a loss? I can’t even bother. I have no patience. Overall housing goes up. When you rent you don’t get that money back. I have been a home owner for 20 years and I have probably paid 400K down over the years… I can tell you I’m up 1.5 million or more. So even if the market went down 50% or went down to nothing - I would still have my 400K that I have paid into the market (since there are absolutely zero detached homes for 400K) if I was renting for the past 20 years my pockets would be empty. I also have been renting my basement for 10 years and steadily increasing the rent for 10 years and pocketing that money. If I was smart I would have paid that extra 200K towards my mortgage or even invested it. But that’s my money and my choice. Please make this make sense. Show me how renting is better. I want to listen and LEARN how people think.
@@RichKlasslisten, I’m not the one complaining like everyone else about rent being high. What I do know is I pay less than $2000 a month for an 8 year old DETACHED home. And I’ll be mortgage free in 10 years or even less if I use my basement income towards my mortgage and not towards the vehicle I drive. I’m 42 years old. So people telling others that renting is the way to go is the dumbest argument!! 😂 let’s see how that works out for ya!
@@Lifeisapartydresslikeit so people should be jumping head first into 750,000 dollar plus mortgages? You’re part of the problem. Way to cheerlead for our fucked up economy, lol
@@Lifeisapartydresslikeityou were fortunate to get in when you did 20 years ago…This person clearly wasn’t able to and is smart to stay out, keep savings in other investments, and wait till the prices are more reasonable or not buy at all and refuse to be a debt slave.
The bank of canada says they are going to cut more and expects people to buy now. If you hear you could be paying 2% less if you buy in a year you will buy in a year. They are telling sellers that rates are cutting so demand will be there. It feels like a coin pusher machine where a giant number of sales are on the edge and people are waiting till it gets to the best possible time.
I feel like people are trying to follow everyone else, hoping to time the market and get homes for rock bottom prices. However, as soon as sales pick up, they'll all come out at once.
Hey torontohomestead, I think that's very possible - FOMO appears to have been broke, but to the extent to which would-be buyers can continue to afford these prices, I don't think it would take much to get them to flood in.
Mark why the influx of listings? Could it be due to not being able to renew with the current rates, especially with all the fixed payment variable mortgages coming due?
Hey chuck, I'm really not sure why - that could be part of it - It really doesn't make sense for sellers to list, unless they absolutely have to, as conventional wisdom says 25 is going to pick up with lower rates. Maybe they don't believe conventional wisdom? I don't really but that sellers jumped the gun and for some reason buyers opted not to.
@MortgageBrokerLondonOntario I'm getting the impression from realtors I know that a lot has to do with the payment shock with the new rates. I believe it is the belief as you mentioned. It will be interesting seeing how long buyers hold off. I still see a herd mentality coming when things start moving it will gather steam rather quickly.
Hey linda, I think it gets lifted some time in 2025 - unless its extended (it very well could be an election year, so its not out of the ream of possibility).
Buyers need to do their own price discovery. Don't rely on a real estate agent to tell you what a house is "worth" because they will always inflate the value.
Like to see what Windsor area is doing. As for a housing bubble, I believed that since 2005 but that bubble has never burst so pretty sceptical at this point even though I can't see how housing can ever go higher since no one will be able to afford buying.
I think your right, the prices are unlikely to go much higher, however I doubt they will get cheaper. wages are going up , they are lagging behind and the gov made the debt easier to swallow with 30+ years to pay it off. It's too big to fail.
Much of the previous sales demand was from investors and this market has dried up and won't be back until prices drop to a level where property can be cash flow positive again.
Most of the country hasn't been cashflow positive since 2014. It was the population explosion that made them think the shortage of housing would make it work out of sheer rental demand. Unfortunately the stagnant wage growth that accompanied the influx of cheap labor is the flaw in this strategy. Your income is your income regardless of real estate prices.
Hey al, Thanks as always for the comment :) Agreed - it doesn't look like investors are flooding back in any time soon - and definitely not the speculators.
what do you think about the fact that money itself has gotten weaker in value and what the hypothetical floor of the house asset prices are relative to the purchasing power of the dollar? In other words does the inflation rate set a constraint on the value of homes ?
Hey akramsystems, I think that's a great point - prices are still up about 30% from January 2020, as is inflation - so the prices could be very in line with everything else (though, incomes still have yet to catch up - which is a real problem). Also, its still not clear than even pre-2020 prices were where they should be given the normalization of interest rates.
Debt still remains far too high constraining consumer spending reliant gdp, with short term Debt instruments ie: CC's and Helocs still rising into Auto/TV etc loan stresses evident. In my view regardless of recent demand side stimulus and the lower rate trajectory into what I believe is an inevitable recession as still 4+ Million Mortgages renew(~600K Negams).... there still remains a significant "GAP" between available gdi(gross domestic Income) as derivable from gdp into overall Financial conditions conducive to adequate price discovery for rising numbers of Listings.... which again... and in my view only.... suggests an ongoing deflationary trend for Canadian Real Estate ~24 Months with troublesome 'mark to market' Big Bank Mortgage Portfolio valuations. We shall see.... but imo 2025 could be ugly.
Hey dirtlump, Thanks as always for the great comment :) Definitely very possible - that is an awful lot of mortgages (especially the negative ams) that will be pulling money out of the economy. We'll see what happens!
@@Stormshfter My thoughts exactly.... and it is a 'bubble' vis-a-vi servicing income(gdi) as derivable from gdp heading into recession..... the wild card being Big Bank Mortgage Portfolio "chattel" valuations underpinning Financialized entitlement structures that will FAIL under actual 'mark to market' renewals problematic to the wider Banking/Financial system as attenuation of the losses progress. Buckle up !
Those relying on population growth to support the market should know that economic demand has two necessary components: 1. The desire for a product; 2. The ability to pay for it.
We just bought a house, originally priced four months ago at just shy of $800k, and was price reduced $100k, and then again $50k over 4 months. We paid at little over $630k. You need to know the sold prices on comparables, yet it was very difficult to obtain this info. REAs use the listing price+ to price comparable, regardless of what they sold for.
Buyers need to do their own price discovery. Don't rely on a real estate agent to tell you what a house is "worth" because they will always inflate the value.
@@rossmcd3703This whole comparables bs from realtors... I only care what I'm willing to pay for an already overpriced home. Comparables only come down when buyers give what they think a home is worth and a seller accepts
Great breakdown Mark. As always extremely helpful. Home building costs, land acquisition, regulatory compliance would seem to underlie prices. So it seems that If you get through the process to have a building approved. The motivation is then to build the most expensive units you can in order to earn a return. 😊
The federal gov't is massively dialing back the new permanent residents by 20%. This story is going to keep unfolding for the real estate industry in the coming yrs. In fact, I won't be surprised if this gets dialled back even more going forward. They've cheered on the leveraging to homes for over 20 years and they created a big fat pig. If developers don't start building we will see mass layoffs in Toronto across the industry. People need to understand that the waves are just starting to roll through.
And that Bond Market - who knew Bull Steepeners are bad folks. Then add in a Bond Market that smells inflation and it gets worse. CRB index up 10% in 30 days. That commmodities folks. The stuff you eat, purchase, and use. The seesaw battle between deflation, disinflation, inflation and soon hyperinflation will rage for years. Few will come out the other end intact.
Advice from an investor.... keep renting low.... invest GROWTH US mutual funds.... and you will see your money grow 10-12% every year. You will find yourself with much more money in 10 years and be able to buy a better house. After tax, your rate of return will be 8%-10%. This is better than paying thousands of dollars in interest or paying 200K because of FOMO
They would have to stop drinking the Koolaid to understand that. They cancel logical investment advice by saying you are a bitter poor person who can't get in. Sad country of sheep we live amongst.
@@LifeisapartydresslikeitThat is the problem with many Canadians. They don't know taxes and investments. When you pull them out from your mutual fund, you pay tax on 50% of your capital gains at your tax bracket. This ends up being maximum 1%-3% (depending on your tax bracket). So if your return ends up being 12% year over year. After paying tax, it ends up being 10%. Canadians needs to look at U.S. Mutual funds. Stay away from any Canadian mutual funds. Example if you invest $1000, it grows to 1120 in one year, you pay tax on $60 (50% of gains), say you pay $24 (40% taxes), that means you pocket 1096. That is a return on your investment of 1096/1000= 9.6%. U.S growth mutual funds have return of over 11%-13%, Canadians mutual funds have return of 7%-8%. Never invest in Canadian mutual funds. Trust me on this, and do your research. I can buy a detached home in Toronto with cash. My investments are growing at 12%-13% per year more than the average price of homes in Toronto.
Housing will crash because of this fundamental reason. If i made 200k combined income with a partner, i still cannot qualify for a mortgage. Prices need to drop to where ppl can qualify on a 100k-120k combined income.
There are four types of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics and Real Estate Board data.
Exactly
just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's a lie
Lol - I think that about sums it up!
At this point, I could probably recite all of these acronyms and industry terms from memory while half asleep, but I still appreciate that you take the time to explain every single episode.
Hey Jan,
Lol I'm not surprised :) Hope you have a great weekend!
One of the things I like about watching your channel the most is your process/method of tracking the markets, how you keep yourself informed, it's teaching me to teach my myself and that seriously powerful man, so thank you for that!
Thanks RAM!! That's very much appreciated!!
Another 30-40 % price reduction is inevitable.
Just got my windows replaced, cost me 35k, will reno costs be reduced as well?
@@sukhjitsingh8269everything is up !
@@sukhjitsingh8269 yes
The longer this goes on, the more evident it is becoming that this cycle is following the same path as all other historical cycles, just based on larger price numbers. 1% of 1.5mil is a bigger drop than 1% of 500k. At the end of it it will be based on the percentages which will add up to a larger price drop before the plateau.
Outside of certian parts of Vancouver and Toronto where the worldwide rich choose to reside, the rest of the country's real rstate will correct over several years to 4x local income.
Everyone just rode the wave up, made some money, and exited.
As we pass into 2025 all speculators that have not exited will be bag holders.
As i said, its the same historically every time, just based on bigger numbers because of great marketing by the real estate association.
Another good one. Who's able to exert this kind of editorial influence? I wonder what CREA is spending in advertising on these platforms.
Thanks for the hard work.
Thanks Lifer!! Very welcome :)
My guess is its the ad money, and a hot market is good for ratings.
Lots of ad spend from individual agents too
Love it "buyers are back! market is taking off!" meanwhile the market is still 55% below its peak.
Not buyers, investors are coming back & they already have the money, mortgage rates are so high poor people are stuck again 🥹
Why the sept numbers are low ? Answer is apart from .25 point decrease , bank also declared that MORE and BIGGER rate cuts are coming ( in oct and dec ) . Plus rates will go down under 3 eventually in 2025 . So knowing this , why a sane buyer not wait for more rate cuts to secure a mortgage ? Same for seller , some of them ‘ terminated ‘ their listing to revive in dec . Clearly 2 things will happen in coming months :
1. Sept Oct Nov sale numbers will stay low
2. The sales and house prices are going up in Jan feb period owing to rate cuts ( almost as low as 3-4 % ). RE markets works on Fenzy and Fomo.
I'm not timing the market. I would simply never take my savings and put it in real estate at these prices. Renting is not a loss, it's an expense. Buying a house would result in a loss
Please explain to me how buying a house is a loss? I can’t even bother. I have no patience. Overall housing goes up. When you rent you don’t get that money back. I have been a home owner for 20 years and I have probably paid 400K down over the years… I can tell you I’m up 1.5 million or more. So even if the market went down 50% or went down to nothing - I would still have my 400K that I have paid into the market (since there are absolutely zero detached homes for 400K) if I was renting for the past 20 years my pockets would be empty. I also have been renting my basement for 10 years and steadily increasing the rent for 10 years and pocketing that money. If I was smart I would have paid that extra 200K towards my mortgage or even invested it. But that’s my money and my choice. Please make this make sense. Show me how renting is better. I want to listen and LEARN how people think.
@@Lifeisapartydresslikeityou win dumbest response. Derrrrpppp
@@RichKlasslisten, I’m not the one complaining like everyone else about rent being high. What I do know is I pay less than $2000 a month for an 8 year old DETACHED home. And I’ll be mortgage free in 10 years or even less if I use my basement income towards my mortgage and not towards the vehicle I drive. I’m 42 years old. So people telling others that renting is the way to go is the dumbest argument!! 😂 let’s see how that works out for ya!
@@Lifeisapartydresslikeit so people should be jumping head first into 750,000 dollar plus mortgages? You’re part of the problem. Way to cheerlead for our fucked up economy, lol
@@Lifeisapartydresslikeityou were fortunate to get in when you did 20 years ago…This person clearly wasn’t able to and is smart to stay out, keep savings in other investments, and wait till the prices are more reasonable or not buy at all and refuse to be a debt slave.
What is the condo / not condo breakdown?
The bank of canada says they are going to cut more and expects people to buy now.
If you hear you could be paying 2% less if you buy in a year you will buy in a year.
They are telling sellers that rates are cutting so demand will be there.
It feels like a coin pusher machine where a giant number of sales are on the edge and people are waiting till it gets to the best possible time.
I think there is some truth in this.
Once the tap opens...
Can they cut much after the recent US jobs data?
@@dgreen1411 What do you mean?
@dgreen1411 Because of the job number, the United States is talking about doing cuts.
Did you get different information?
No they will cut. Which is also good for us
I feel like people are trying to follow everyone else, hoping to time the market and get homes for rock bottom prices. However, as soon as sales pick up, they'll all come out at once.
Hey torontohomestead,
I think that's very possible - FOMO appears to have been broke, but to the extent to which would-be buyers can continue to afford these prices, I don't think it would take much to get them to flood in.
Thanks for clicking !!
Thanks Ygg!!
Curious if there is an identifiable link between the bubble burst in China and burst risk in Canada.
Mark why the influx of listings?
Could it be due to not being able to renew with the current rates, especially with all the fixed payment variable mortgages coming due?
Hey chuck,
I'm really not sure why - that could be part of it - It really doesn't make sense for sellers to list, unless they absolutely have to, as conventional wisdom says 25 is going to pick up with lower rates. Maybe they don't believe conventional wisdom? I don't really but that sellers jumped the gun and for some reason buyers opted not to.
@MortgageBrokerLondonOntario I'm getting the impression from realtors I know that a lot has to do with the payment shock with the new rates.
I believe it is the belief as you mentioned. It will be interesting seeing how long buyers hold off.
I still see a herd mentality coming when things start moving it will gather steam rather quickly.
How long until they lift the foreign buyer ban?
2025
@@Gameless and when that doesn’t work ? 😳
@@dinagallis2664 the ban? It's hardly worked when they backtracked it and made a bunch of loopholes from day 1.
Hey linda,
I think it gets lifted some time in 2025 - unless its extended (it very well could be an election year, so its not out of the ream of possibility).
@@MortgageBrokerLondonOntario lifting it is definitely not the populist move!
If you remove the condo market, things are very, very different!
Please elaborate
Thanks Mark, always great!
Thanks Lance!! Very welcome :)
Buyers need to do their own price discovery. Don't rely on a real estate agent to tell you what a house is "worth" because they will always inflate the value.
Exactly, they just care about commission only and commission is also very high, after the deal closed they even don't care
Like to see what Windsor area is doing. As for a housing bubble, I believed that since 2005 but that bubble has never burst so pretty sceptical at this point even though I can't see how housing can ever go higher since no one will be able to afford buying.
I think your right, the prices are unlikely to go much higher, however I doubt they will get cheaper. wages are going up , they are lagging behind and the gov made the debt easier to swallow with 30+ years to pay it off. It's too big to fail.
Hey hagbard,
Thanks as always for the comment :) Thus far it doesn't look like we're seeing any major reversals - How did Windsor do during the boom?
@@MortgageBrokerLondonOntario Prices went to the moon. When we moved here, could have bought just about anything here, now, we're looking at shacks.
Much of the previous sales demand was from investors and this market has dried up and won't be back until prices drop to a level where property can be cash flow positive again.
Most of the country hasn't been cashflow positive since 2014.
It was the population explosion that made them think the shortage of housing would make it work out of sheer rental demand.
Unfortunately the stagnant wage growth that accompanied the influx of cheap labor is the flaw in this strategy.
Your income is your income regardless of real estate prices.
Hey al,
Thanks as always for the comment :) Agreed - it doesn't look like investors are flooding back in any time soon - and definitely not the speculators.
what do you think about the fact that money itself has gotten weaker in value and what the hypothetical floor of the house asset prices are relative to the purchasing power of the dollar? In other words does the inflation rate set a constraint on the value of homes ?
Hey akramsystems,
I think that's a great point - prices are still up about 30% from January 2020, as is inflation - so the prices could be very in line with everything else (though, incomes still have yet to catch up - which is a real problem). Also, its still not clear than even pre-2020 prices were where they should be given the normalization of interest rates.
He hit the nail on the head, the dollar is collapsing from massive govt debt and deficit, the market is not up 30% since 2020 priced in gold
People expect rates and prices will come down THEREFORE, everyone is WAITING!!
Hey central,
I think that is probably a big part of it -though it doesn't explain why sellers are still flooding in.
@@MortgageBrokerLondonOntario they want to move or they need to unload it.
I guess I should've said most BUYERS are waiting
2025 looks like it’ll be a lot of fun. Can’t wait. 😅
lol it should be interesting to say the least!
What does it look like?
Atleast a couple years if slumo ahead. Buy only if you NEED a long term place
Thanks for clickiiiiiing!!!
Thanks Brandy!! Have a great weekend :)
Thank you
Hey mark,
Very welcome :) Thanks for watching!
Debt still remains far too high constraining consumer spending reliant gdp, with short term Debt instruments ie: CC's and Helocs still rising into Auto/TV etc loan stresses evident.
In my view regardless of recent demand side stimulus and the lower rate trajectory into what I believe is an inevitable recession as still 4+ Million Mortgages renew(~600K Negams).... there still remains a significant "GAP" between available gdi(gross domestic Income) as derivable from gdp into overall Financial conditions conducive to adequate price discovery for rising numbers of Listings....
which again... and in my view only.... suggests an ongoing deflationary trend for Canadian Real Estate ~24 Months with troublesome 'mark to market' Big Bank Mortgage Portfolio valuations.
We shall see....
but imo 2025 could be ugly.
Given the existing debt.
The potential for new debt to feed the bubble is low.
Hey dirtlump,
Thanks as always for the great comment :) Definitely very possible - that is an awful lot of mortgages (especially the negative ams) that will be pulling money out of the economy. We'll see what happens!
@@Stormshfter My thoughts exactly.... and it is a 'bubble' vis-a-vi servicing income(gdi) as derivable from gdp heading into recession..... the wild card being Big Bank Mortgage Portfolio "chattel" valuations underpinning Financialized entitlement structures that will FAIL under actual 'mark to market' renewals problematic to the wider Banking/Financial system as attenuation of the losses progress.
Buckle up !
Those relying on population growth to support the market should know that economic demand has two necessary components: 1. The desire for a product; 2. The ability to pay for it.
Hey citizeng,
Thanks for the comment :) Yep - too often people only remember the first one!
Listing prices are a joke😂. Trust me. You can sell a sheep for $100k or sell the same sheep for $750k. Which one will you take??
We just bought a house, originally priced four months ago at just shy of $800k, and was price reduced $100k, and then again $50k over 4 months. We paid at little over $630k.
You need to know the sold prices on comparables, yet it was very difficult to obtain this info.
REAs use the listing price+ to price comparable, regardless of what they sold for.
Buyers need to do their own price discovery. Don't rely on a real estate agent to tell you what a house is "worth" because they will always inflate the value.
@@rossmcd3703This whole comparables bs from realtors... I only care what I'm willing to pay for an already overpriced home. Comparables only come down when buyers give what they think a home is worth and a seller accepts
@@althunder4269 yes
Great breakdown Mark. As always extremely helpful. Home building costs, land acquisition, regulatory compliance would seem to underlie prices. So it seems that If you get through the process to have a building approved. The motivation is then to build the most expensive units you can in order to earn a return. 😊
Hey Kevin,
Thanks so much! I agree - there is much more incentive to build at the top of the market than there is for the middle.
I mean essentially since 2020. Most buyers were ppl that owned more than 2 homes
I’m assuming those investors are just cashing out.
couldn't happen to a better city!
Mark, taking the media to task!
Lol :) Thanks datruth!!
The federal gov't is massively dialing back the new permanent residents by 20%. This story is going to keep unfolding for the real estate industry in the coming yrs. In fact, I won't be surprised if this gets dialled back even more going forward.
They've cheered on the leveraging to homes for over 20 years and they created a big fat pig. If developers don't start building we will see mass layoffs in Toronto across the industry. People need to understand that the waves are just starting to roll through.
And that Bond Market - who knew
Bull Steepeners are bad folks. Then add in a Bond Market that smells inflation and it gets worse. CRB index up 10% in 30 days. That commmodities folks. The stuff you eat, purchase, and use. The seesaw battle between deflation, disinflation, inflation and soon hyperinflation will rage for years. Few will come out the other end intact.
Hey mogul,
Thanks as always for the comment :) Incredible isn't it? Given current events you'd think yields would be plummeting.
the industry loves to frame pretty much any event as the reason why sales are going to increase hahah
Hey joe,
lol!! Yep pretty much!
Advice from an investor.... keep renting low.... invest GROWTH US mutual funds.... and you will see your money grow 10-12% every year. You will find yourself with much more money in 10 years and be able to buy a better house. After tax, your rate of return will be 8%-10%. This is better than paying thousands of dollars in interest or paying 200K because of FOMO
They would have to stop drinking the Koolaid to understand that.
They cancel logical investment advice by saying you are a bitter poor person who can't get in.
Sad country of sheep we live amongst.
But when I pull from my mutual funds I pay tax. Principal residence is tax free
@@Lifeisapartydresslikeit
You only have one principal residence though.
I have one also, but u should also have investment in stocks or commodities.
@@LifeisapartydresslikeitThat is the problem with many Canadians. They don't know taxes and investments. When you pull them out from your mutual fund, you pay tax on 50% of your capital gains at your tax bracket. This ends up being maximum 1%-3% (depending on your tax bracket). So if your return ends up being 12% year over year. After paying tax, it ends up being 10%. Canadians needs to look at U.S. Mutual funds. Stay away from any Canadian mutual funds. Example if you invest $1000, it grows to 1120 in one year, you pay tax on $60 (50% of gains), say you pay $24 (40% taxes), that means you pocket 1096. That is a return on your investment of 1096/1000= 9.6%. U.S growth mutual funds have return of over 11%-13%, Canadians mutual funds have return of 7%-8%. Never invest in Canadian mutual funds. Trust me on this, and do your research. I can buy a detached home in Toronto with cash. My investments are growing at 12%-13% per year more than the average price of homes in Toronto.
@@Stormshfter I have some stocks with work… yes we must have a diversified portfolio
lol You Realize what you've done!
LOL :)
Housing will crash because of this fundamental reason. If i made 200k combined income with a partner, i still cannot qualify for a mortgage. Prices need to drop to where ppl can qualify on a 100k-120k combined income.
3rd innings of collapse long way to go but Carney is at work so lets see lol POS 2x and needs to go much higher 15x ?
China has released the bazooka or QE .. will the money launderers currently AWOL come back lol ? Waiting for Carney's bazooka lol ...