6'7" here. Thank you Jeff - been interrupted squatting so many times by people saying I've been doing it wrong. Near impossible for your knees not to go out over toes at this height
Sorry to complicate things, but don't rest that case TOO quickly The method picture in the study jeff is citing explains the massive increase in hip torque and therefore his conclusion. If you look at it you will see that the guy doing it has clearly trained in the unrestricted style and has no experience restricted. As in... a proper restricted squat should ALSO keep the face behind the toes. The example is trying to reach the same head height... He is narrowing his stance to fit the restriction board width, increasing profile length of his femurs and messing up all the angles. Losing core stability thus flexing from the mid back. All of this pitches his face past his toes and increases the relative lever action of the high load resulting in exponential torque at the hip. A wider stance and restriction board. More flexible hamstrings. And better coaching for the athlete in the test would have yielded very different results. Jeff is great. And yes a healthy knee can handle knees just past the toes (as long as it happens late and not early in the decent). However the risk and strain in the knee for shearing force, esply the ACL increases again exponentially at the mid point of the movement. BUT it will also allow for greater quad work relative to glutes. Take your pick. If yo are feelings restriction or pinching in the hips it is likely that something else needs adjusting. Hope that helps.
@@stevenrapa4014 restrictive squats arent how your suppose to squat though, unless your aiming for hypertrophy. Widening your stance is also a cheat for lack of flexibility and mobility.
@@ONE-pg7wd Hi bud. Says who? Thats actually not accurate. 1) "Restricted squats are not how you are supposed to squat". Execution of any exercise is determined by the goal while maintaining health. 2) Hypertrophy is actually better achieved with the unrestricted squat providing proper coaching and adequate mobility. 3) Cheat may be the wrong word. Its more a tool, for instance a wider squat stance is often away to balance out form for someone with longer femurs.
@@stevenrapa4014 1)"While maintaining health" To maintain proper bodily health you would want to maintain proper range of motion which means you would want to do unrestricted which bring you through the proper range of motion. 2) I am under the understanding partial reps would bring your greater hypertrophy as the time under tension of the muscle is constant in a partial range of motion(which restrictive squats are) 3)I agree with that to an extent but for those who have Ionger femurs a slightly wider stance wouldnt look or be "wide" because their femurs are long so that's a normal stance for them. However if you lack mobility and stand in a "wide" stance realtive to your structure your cheating to get more depth in your squat.
@@ONE-pg7wd perhaps I should have said 'while avoiding cons' or something similar. Quick reply on the phone using talk to text and words failed me. Also I cant view your comment as I reply... But for example, a restricted squat can be used for someone with compromised knee stabilty (for instance I have a client who is straight up missing her ACL, and she can squat strict restricted with zero discomfort ). Or say for some new to weights or exercise, will often be lacking the required motor control and proprioceptive awareness to safely execute consistent reps of unrestricted. So for them restricted would be all pros while avoiding the cons and maximising longevity. But... um no maximum hypertrophy is definitely achieved by using the majority of the ROM within the strength curve. Although 'locking out' does as you mention release time under tension, greater range means more activation of more moto units and at varying angles, which is a plus neurologically , while also meaning the muscle fibres 'slide' further along the whole length each rep resulting in more micro tears equalling greater hypotrophy. For a demonstration of the importance of this , take the aspect of time under tension to the extreme and imagine how much growth could be achieved with static isometric contractions only. Time under tension increases overload but it is the movement of the contracting fibres that actually stimulates growth. Hope that makes sense. Again tap to talkng 😁
@@dickpiano1802 weightlifters have nothing to do with healthy people Its just weightlifting Beeing strong(weight lift wise) does bot make you more healthy It just makes you more capable of lifting, congratulations So in a discussion about "what is healthier on the body" a weightlift book is the last thing you need to read More anatomy, sportscience, or sports physical therapist for longjevety. Dorian yates, a former bodybuilder cant even do push ups anymore cuz his joints arr so messed up And his "weight lift technique" was on point. Stop spreading broscience
It makes perfect sense !!! I've actually noticed that the movement comes more naturally when the knees are slightly in front of the toes, and there's no pain!! Thank you!
I'm so very glad you cited the mechanical reasons for why it's actually important for the knees to go past the toes (to a natural degree for the movement). When you approach it in this way, it's much less of a debate and much more of an easy to understand concept for those wondering what the reasoning is. Good stuff as always Jeff.
I love the educated breakdown. Very straight to the point. Can you please start a series where you talk about exercises for different sports. For example. Workouts for sprinters. Workouts for rugby players. Workouts to increase vertical jump. Workouts to increase cardiovascular strength. Workouts to increase speed. Or running speed. Stretching exercises.
Thank goodness I found this video! It may literally save my lifting life! I have spent the past 3 years trying to squat with my knees staying back (as I was taught) and have had to stop squatting on 4 different occasions due to lower back pain. Luckily no tears or anything that required surgery, but it certainly kept me out of the gym for weeks and kept me from every truly making progress on the squat. I have since started trying to ignore that and squat while allowing some natural movement of the knees forward, and not only have I seen progress and found the squat unbelievably easier, I also have had zero pain! Thanks Jeff for finding this info and making it public!
as a beginner at the gym and terrified about making mistakes and had no range of motion during squats. i was scared to hurt my knees and therefore didn't want to squat past my feet. i was so confused because i could press way over my body weight with the leg press but had no proper squat only with the bar. thank you!
I have had this question for awhile without finding a good answer for it! I have noticed that it feels better to squat with my knees over my toes slightly as long as the weight is not on my toes and I'm lifting from my heels. Thank you so much for your knowledge and sharing this with us! I greatly appreciate it!! 😀
I really don’t like when you tubers make a video about a certain subject and then blend in a vlog but videos like this where I know what to expect about having to look for it is what I appreciate, I don’t want to have to watch 5 to 10 minutes of content unrelated to the video just to reach what I’m here for
Watched another one of your videos. Went to google to search for the answer to this question. Clicked a random link, it took me straight to this video. I ain’t complaining
This is one of the most complete accounts of whether or not the knees should go past the toes that I have seen out there. Thanks for helping to dispel another myth!
I have patella tendonitis from squatting my knees over my toes. My physical therapist advised me.to keep my knees behind my toes. Its harder on the back and on the hip, yes, BUT much less hard on the knees. Thats just a fact I have no see any bodybuilder who really can run efficiently withoutany problems so probably saying "those powerlifters dont habe knee problems( while lifting or just regular couch sitting)" is not the best argument. Almost every bodybuilder powerlifter has bad knees.. And they all squat with knees over toes.. Honestly its probably a very unnatural thing anyway putting a loaded barbell on your spine and repping. But ppl wanna be big 🤷♂️
@@backbone93 you could have fucked your knees doing many things other than squating. I squat a lot, only hurt my knees doing pistol squats (probably shit technique), and now I find my slipt squat technique lacking... Probably because I'm not going full knees-over-toes, not the other way around, but I'll have to play with the technique. One thing I can tell you is barbell squatting never hurt my knees, and I never paid attention to knee position.
*THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!* I've had issues with my squat for so long now, always being told that I couldn't pass my toes with the knees. If I did though, I couldn't help but not keep my back as straight and lean forward a bit. Now I realise it's mostly because of my proportions and having above normal long legs which makes me have to balance with leaning forward. I even got a PT-lesson which didn't help at all, so thank you :D
Totally needed this. I feel like I’m not good at squat and was researching how to do it better and then I came across the “knees over toes” debate. I like how you simplify the squat to three must haves, and allow the rest to be subjective to your body. Personally, I think (most of the time; not all the time) that when there’s two sides of a debate, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. And I think your balanced approach in nailing down the basic fundamentals of the squat achieves that. Thanks!
Thanks Jeff. Been using that "restricted squat" as a primary guideline for my squat technique. Kind of explains why when I go heavier it starts to strain my lower back and hips.
Was wondering why I had so much lower back strain. Started When a Trainer told me to never put my knees past my toes. Jeff Cavalier adds to this by saying that it helps if you have good ankle mobility and hence should aim to increase it.
Spot on with the different body proportions and having to adjust technique accordingly. I don't find that enough people acknowledge that there isn't one universal way to perform exercises. One of my athletes has a fused vertebrae so can't, and unfortunately never will be able to do proper squats without risking back injury so we've had to use alternative exercises. You just need a coach/trainer that knows what they're doing!
This was so helpful! My femurs are long compared to the rest of my body so my lean forward is slightly more than others and it annoys me if some random guy in the gym tries to tell me to change this 😂 like I know what I’m doing 💯
Thank you, Jeff! Your tips and information are always invaluable. You are a true inspiration to me and to everyone who loves training and wants to do it right. Keep motivating us to reach our highest potential!
Very nice and easy to listen to. The information was compact and well researched, so it did not became boring to listen to and it was very informative. Keep up the good work Jeff!
Thanks Jeff, this is perfect and very timely! I'm trying to help my partner do squats for the first time, and this was one point I really wasn't 100% confident about.
Lexes O'Hara a lot of pros will disagree on this. He makes it seem so uncontroversial in his video by reading a few studies. He has a BSc in biochem. No kinesiology, exercise science, or masters degree. You should ask a biomechanics prof or sports physical therapist. I also can't see any evidence of actually working in the field of training people, where you will get individuals who come in with musculoskeletal problems so are you gonna advise them with something so controversial as squat with knees in front of the toes on your liability insurance? No. He says he is natural, but he is a bit too lean considering his stats. 5'5 and 160-180 is not Natty. Guys that height are Natty and lean around 136-150 Max if super strong.
The method picture in the study jeff is citing explains the massive increase in hip torque and therefore his conclusion. If you look at it you will see that the guy doing it has clearly trained in the unrestricted style and has no experience restricted. As in... a proper restricted squat should ALSO keep the face behind the toes. He is trying to reach the same head height... He is narrowing his stance to fit the restriction board width, increasing profile length of his femurs and messing up all the angles and proportional leverage. Losing core stability thus flexing from the mid back. All of this pitches his face past his toes and increases the relative lever action of the high load resulting in exponential torque at the hip. A ... - wider stance and restriction board. - More flexible hamstrings. And better coaching for the athlete in the test would have yielded very different results. Jeff is great. And yes a healthy knee can handle knees just past the toes (as long as it happens late and not early in the decent). However the risk and strain in the knee for shearing force, esply the ACL increases exponentially at the mid point of the movement. BUT it will also allow for greater quad work relative to glutes. Take your pick. Hope that helps.
Brilliant vid, with sources from academic research. He's the real MVP. My knees are starting to really hurt from decades of doing restricted squats, and i have long legs so it's almost impossible for them not to go over. This makes me feel better!
Wow, this explains so much. I've never gotten past 285 on squat because I got injured at that weight twice. The first time, I tipped a lumbar vertebrae out of place. The second time, something happened to my hip. It made this weird grinding noise and then I felt like it couldn't support weight for a bit. I need to let my knees go forward more apparently!
When Jeff talks I feel like all my problems go away. He makes me feel so safe and secure, he's so calm and objective and patient (it seems). Is that a weird feeling to have? LOL
I went to an Orthopedic two days ago because I have knee pain. He asked me to move my knee in certain positions but I didn't feel any pain during that time. I only feel pain while squat/lunge. Since I am medically fine, I think the pain is from the squat position because I never let me knees pass my toes.
Glad to get some data on this. My knees are pretty mangled right now due largely to squatting heavy with a crappy form for too long. Trying to get it fixed, this was helpful.
Great information!!!. I was a competitive Olympic Weightlifter in the 80s. We did heaps of squats as a training exercise for our C&J and Snatching. Years later in the early 2000s after many years of no lifting I was confused by a personal trainer trying to correct my squats, "don't let your knees go over your toes!". I didn't have the heart to tell him at 13 years old I was able to squat 140kg for 3 reps. To be fair I was 30 at the time he told me this, not to mention fat and struggling with 100kg for 10 reps as I got back into it. You want to learn to squat for shear power and strength spend some time with Olympic and Power lifters. 😊
This is great and so inline with what the body naturally wants to do - toes and knees in the same line. Thanks Jeff! Really liked the study and the three main pints you mentioned, especially the direction of the barbell (going straight down). Looove it! Keep it up!
Anyone else would love a vid of him talking about the science behind working the one muscle group everyday and overloading the cells in the muscle forcing the muscle to grow giving crazy results in such a short amount of time. There's a lot of controversy on this topic but body buildings swear this works well and there's a lot of studies done on it proving it works well
It depends on many factors. If reasonably trained subject start working out daily, he will quickly get more muscle mass and myonuclei, because of the increase in training volume, but only if he manages to recover. However, if you overtrain, it will have an inverse effect. I don't think it has any benefits over general periodization. If one gets crazy gains from it, he is probably under trained anyway. I hope Jeff takes a look at this issue.
Thank you for this video. At 6’4” with longer legs than torso and the ability to go ass to grass with heels firmly on the ground, I’m constantly getting “corrected” lol.
This was amazing . I love your whole philosophy and so grateful you bring the science into strength! I taught this up until today to my young athletes and I’m so grateful I can start to train them Better. Thank you jeff💪🏽
in the gym PTs approached me several times as to not go beyond toes or don't go over 90 degrees...each time I tell them I'll try, cause I don't really want to fight them over it :)
There is nothing wrong with a parallel squat. Ilyin - parallel squat. Pyrros Dimas - parallel squat. Also nothing wrong with below parallel as long as your flexibility is good.
Jeff, first time I’ve watched one of your videos, but goddamn am I impressed. Your presentation style & research review is really insightful and easy to understand. Thanks for the fantastic overview - I can’t wait to watch more!
Props for the video, this is exactly the sort of information every fitness trainer should be shown/aware of, rather than the spoonfed information that is considered "common" knowledge among the fitness community that is outdated and has been proven wrong. People should question current methods of doing things rather than just accepting them, especially when there is insufficient scientific evidence for doing something, that is how you move forward and beat the rest of the pack.
Heyyy Jeff I love your channel, I have learned so much from the videos that you provide, quick question, Do you still give training for contest preps? Because I'm prepping for one, and I'd love you to help me out! Thank you😊
Might be an old study, but I know for a fact the ACE training manual from the past 2 years definitely states that in its training manual. But the smart trainer I was at the time definitely keep up to date on the greatest fitness advice, some of that from you.
The picture of the test with the restricted squat looked to have an exaggerated forward lean which does explain the greater strain on the spine. I guess what i learned here is that it was absolutely correct that the more the knee passes the toes, the more strain you put on them...so its a balance between good knee positioning and spine position. So i technically wouldnt really call this "myth" busted.
Hi Jeff, I have about 1 year to follow your channel and see the biomechanical explanations of the exercises. In the squat whether or not the knee of the toe passes depends on it. There are many variables to consider, and one of them is the flexibility and stability of hips and ankles. In all the time I have to train I have listened and read about different studies, that all have good points and others do not. In my case I have increased the work of fleixibility of the hip flexor psoas and my ankles, to not have to do all the traction force with my lower back. Now that depends on the type of person doing the squat, somehow not everyone is ready. In my opinion I think the knee should not be carried further than 10-15 degrees to the front, and that is why mechanical strain affects the knee more than the same quadricep and gluteus that is why we do squats. For this you have to take many variables .. It's a pleasure to see your videos, always wanting to see new ones, I've never commented on any, but it's always good to discuss what makes us want to see them. I hope you are well, greetings..
Thankyou, This is super helpful!! My best friend has been telling me not to go past the toes for the last year. ohoho how little did she know! Im gonna stick with my natural squat with my knees slightly past the toes as IT helps keep the bar in a straight line and prevents my overall body from falling forward.
@Jeff Nippard, great video, very succinctly explained and seemingly well researched information! I'm an aspiring exercise scientist/pt myself and will take your tips on board! Keep putting out the great content 😊
Going parralel is deep enough, but you can always go lower if you can =) Partials aren't usefull(maybe for specialisation work --> powerlifting) work on your ROM then
Can you do a video about squatting narrow vs squatting wide - shoulder width apart vs past shoulder width apart? Benefits of each, forms explained, etc
Thanks for the video Jeff. Alan Thrall would agree with your conclusions : weight in the squat should line up with the middle of the foot and knee travel over the toes is not something to worry about unless really excessive. On a side note, you look a bit tired, maybe a bit sad. Hope you are feeling good, and if applicable, hope you feel better.
Excellent points! I've argued with some guys because i have long femurs. They'd have me off balance and falling backwards. You don't have to be unreasonably uncomfortable for lifting. Thanks dude!
![Squat Form For Your Anatomy [Perfect Depth Stance And Width]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7FF6VLej_bY/mqdefault.jpg)
![เปิดใจ “ต้นหอม ศกุนตลา” หลังโดนพาดพิงธุรกิจที่เคยทำ และผลกระทบทำถูกปลดฟ้าผ่า! | แฉ 24 ต.ค.67 [2/3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vCi5OIqlxaE/mqdefault.jpg)
6'7" here. Thank you Jeff - been interrupted squatting so many times by people saying I've been doing it wrong. Near impossible for your knees not to go out over toes at this height
Agreed. 6’6” guy here. Our old strength coach would yell at us if our knees DIDN’T go past our toes. Any kinesiology class would agree
@@howdyfarmer quarter squatters don't know what kinesiology is man...
@@CaneSugarCane facts.
Go play basketball ball. Weightlifting ain't your sports
Wrong league son
I knew it, I was always told to keep the knees behind the toe but I always felt that it was hurting my hips. Case rested.
Sorry to complicate things, but don't rest that case TOO quickly
The method picture in the study jeff is citing explains the massive increase in hip torque and therefore his conclusion.
If you look at it you will see that the guy doing it has clearly trained in the unrestricted style and has no experience restricted. As in... a proper restricted squat should ALSO keep the face behind the toes.
The example is trying to reach the same head height...
He is narrowing his stance to fit the restriction board width, increasing profile length of his femurs and messing up all the angles.
Losing core stability thus flexing from the mid back.
All of this pitches his face past his toes and increases the relative lever action of the high load resulting in exponential torque at the hip.
A wider stance and restriction board.
More flexible hamstrings.
And better coaching for the athlete in the test would have yielded very different results.
Jeff is great. And yes a healthy knee can handle knees just past the toes (as long as it happens late and not early in the decent).
However the risk and strain in the knee for shearing force, esply the ACL increases again exponentially at the mid point of the movement.
BUT it will also allow for greater quad work relative to glutes.
Take your pick.
If yo are feelings restriction or pinching in the hips it is likely that something else needs adjusting.
Hope that helps.
@@stevenrapa4014 restrictive squats arent how your suppose to squat though, unless your aiming for hypertrophy. Widening your stance is also a cheat for lack of flexibility and mobility.
@@ONE-pg7wd Hi bud. Says who?
Thats actually not accurate.
1) "Restricted squats are not how you are supposed to squat".
Execution of any exercise is determined by the goal while maintaining health.
2) Hypertrophy is actually better achieved with the unrestricted squat providing proper coaching and adequate mobility.
3) Cheat may be the wrong word. Its more a tool, for instance a wider squat stance is often away to balance out form for someone with longer femurs.
@@stevenrapa4014
1)"While maintaining health" To maintain proper bodily health you would want to maintain proper range of motion which means you would want to do unrestricted which bring you through the proper range of motion.
2) I am under the understanding partial reps would bring your greater hypertrophy as the time under tension of the muscle is constant in a partial range of motion(which restrictive squats are)
3)I agree with that to an extent but for those who have Ionger femurs a slightly wider stance wouldnt look or be "wide" because their femurs are long so that's a normal stance for them. However if you lack mobility and stand in a "wide" stance realtive to your structure your cheating to get more depth in your squat.
@@ONE-pg7wd perhaps I should have said 'while avoiding cons' or something similar. Quick reply on the phone using talk to text and words failed me.
Also I cant view your comment as I reply...
But for example, a restricted squat can be used for someone with compromised knee stabilty (for instance I have a client who is straight up missing her ACL, and she can squat strict restricted with zero discomfort ).
Or say for some new to weights or exercise, will often be lacking the required motor control and proprioceptive awareness to safely execute consistent reps of unrestricted.
So for them restricted would be all pros while avoiding the cons and maximising longevity.
But... um no maximum hypertrophy is definitely achieved by using the majority of the ROM within the strength curve. Although 'locking out' does as you mention release time under tension, greater range means more activation of more moto units and at varying angles, which is a plus neurologically , while also meaning the muscle fibres 'slide' further along the whole length each rep resulting in more micro tears equalling greater hypotrophy.
For a demonstration of the importance of this , take the aspect of time under tension to the extreme and imagine how much growth could be achieved with static isometric contractions only.
Time under tension increases overload but it is the movement of the contracting fibres that actually stimulates growth.
Hope that makes sense.
Again tap to talkng 😁
You are a muscle-packed blessing to the fitness community
Samuel Lee lol true 😂
Jeff “the goat” nippard deliver us from improper form and broscience 🙏🏽
This is why you're a midget Tyrion
It's not bro science. It's ideal technique. Open a book on Weightlifting.
The fact that you have the name Tyrion Lannister as your TH-cam name impresses me
@@dickpiano1802 weightlifters have nothing to do with healthy people
Its just weightlifting
Beeing strong(weight lift wise) does bot make you more healthy
It just makes you more capable of lifting, congratulations
So in a discussion about "what is healthier on the body" a weightlift book is the last thing you need to read
More anatomy, sportscience, or sports physical therapist for longjevety.
Dorian yates, a former bodybuilder cant even do push ups anymore cuz his joints arr so messed up
And his "weight lift technique" was on point.
Stop spreading broscience
Why the fuck I was reading this in tyrion's tone
So happy you devoted a video to this!
It makes perfect sense !!! I've actually noticed that the movement comes more naturally when the knees are slightly in front of the toes, and there's no pain!!
Thank you!
Sit down. Then stand up. That tells you everything you need to know about where your knees should be.
Best way to start my Monday ❤😘
Lol this is cute
Figel the Great she's a....
Fucken GROSS
Ditch Jeff for me
What sort of vile comments do you people even come up with!
I'm so very glad you cited the mechanical reasons for why it's actually important for the knees to go past the toes (to a natural degree for the movement). When you approach it in this way, it's much less of a debate and much more of an easy to understand concept for those wondering what the reasoning is. Good stuff as always Jeff.
My gawd. Ive been lied to for years. Thank you mister nippard
I love the educated breakdown. Very straight to the point. Can you please start a series where you talk about exercises for different sports. For example. Workouts for sprinters. Workouts for rugby players. Workouts to increase vertical jump. Workouts to increase cardiovascular strength. Workouts to increase speed. Or running speed. Stretching exercises.
I’m like 5 11 and my knees hurt after squatting
Thank goodness I found this video! It may literally save my lifting life! I have spent the past 3 years trying to squat with my knees staying back (as I was taught) and have had to stop squatting on 4 different occasions due to lower back pain. Luckily no tears or anything that required surgery, but it certainly kept me out of the gym for weeks and kept me from every truly making progress on the squat. I have since started trying to ignore that and squat while allowing some natural movement of the knees forward, and not only have I seen progress and found the squat unbelievably easier, I also have had zero pain! Thanks Jeff for finding this info and making it public!
as a beginner at the gym and terrified about making mistakes and had no range of motion during squats. i was scared to hurt my knees and therefore didn't want to squat past my feet. i was so confused because i could press way over my body weight with the leg press but had no proper squat only with the bar. thank you!
I have had this question for awhile without finding a good answer for it! I have noticed that it feels better to squat with my knees over my toes slightly as long as the weight is not on my toes and I'm lifting from my heels. Thank you so much for your knowledge and sharing this with us! I greatly appreciate it!! 😀
I really don’t like when you tubers make a video about a certain subject and then blend in a vlog but videos like this where I know what to expect about having to look for it is what I appreciate, I don’t want to have to watch 5 to 10 minutes of content unrelated to the video just to reach what I’m here for
Watched another one of your videos. Went to google to search for the answer to this question. Clicked a random link, it took me straight to this video. I ain’t complaining
This is one of the most complete accounts of whether or not the knees should go past the toes that I have seen out there. Thanks for helping to dispel another myth!
I have patella tendonitis from squatting my knees over my toes.
My physical therapist advised me.to keep my knees behind my toes.
Its harder on the back and on the hip, yes, BUT much less hard on the knees.
Thats just a fact
I have no see any bodybuilder who really can run efficiently withoutany problems so probably saying "those powerlifters dont habe knee problems( while lifting or just regular couch sitting)" is not the best argument.
Almost every bodybuilder powerlifter has bad knees..
And they all squat with knees over toes..
Honestly its probably a very unnatural thing anyway putting a loaded barbell on your spine and repping.
But ppl wanna be big 🤷♂️
@@backbone93 you could have fucked your knees doing many things other than squating. I squat a lot, only hurt my knees doing pistol squats (probably shit technique), and now I find my slipt squat technique lacking... Probably because I'm not going full knees-over-toes, not the other way around, but I'll have to play with the technique. One thing I can tell you is barbell squatting never hurt my knees, and I never paid attention to knee position.
*THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!*
I've had issues with my squat for so long now, always being told that I couldn't pass my toes with the knees. If I did though, I couldn't help but not keep my back as straight and lean forward a bit. Now I realise it's mostly because of my proportions and having above normal long legs which makes me have to balance with leaning forward. I even got a PT-lesson which didn't help at all, so thank you :D
Totally needed this. I feel like I’m not good at squat and was researching how to do it better and then I came across the “knees over toes” debate. I like how you simplify the squat to three must haves, and allow the rest to be subjective to your body. Personally, I think (most of the time; not all the time) that when there’s two sides of a debate, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. And I think your balanced approach in nailing down the basic fundamentals of the squat achieves that. Thanks!
Thanks Jeff. Been using that "restricted squat" as a primary guideline for my squat technique. Kind of explains why when I go heavier it starts to strain my lower back and hips.
One of the most educational videos on squats I’ve seen so far
Jeff nippard=high quality easy to watch and understand videos
Using facts and research to support your point is why I subscribed to you 👍🏼
Wow just a week ago I noticed my squats feel much better with the knees past my toes. Thanks for the info!
Was wondering why I had so much lower back strain. Started When a Trainer told me to never put my knees past my toes. Jeff Cavalier adds to this by saying that it helps if you have good ankle mobility and hence should aim to increase it.
ButtleanX been real quite since fake weights saga🤣
Spot on with the different body proportions and having to adjust technique accordingly. I don't find that enough people acknowledge that there isn't one universal way to perform exercises. One of my athletes has a fused vertebrae so can't, and unfortunately never will be able to do proper squats without risking back injury so we've had to use alternative exercises. You just need a coach/trainer that knows what they're doing!
This was so helpful! My femurs are long compared to the rest of my body so my lean forward is slightly more than others and it annoys me if some random guy in the gym tries to tell me to change this 😂 like I know what I’m doing 💯
Sorry to break it to you, but those random guys only use the "bad form" as an opener lol
@@br3ak_ lmao
Great video. I work at a gym, and had a patron approach me about this dilemma. I'll have an answer for him next time I'm at work.
He always comes with receipts, this dude.
👍🏾
Thank you, Jeff! Your tips and information are always invaluable. You are a true inspiration to me and to everyone who loves training and wants to do it right. Keep motivating us to reach our highest potential!
You put out so much amazing content all the time man. Thank you for your contribution and hard work J! Keep em comin’
I love living in a time when people cite actual studies to support their opinion. Thank for great video!
Thanks for providing logical information and spending your precious time for it
My man, you're fast becoming the go-to guy for this sort of information. Great videos, don't stop!
Very nice and easy to listen to. The information was compact and well researched, so it did not became boring to listen to and it was very informative. Keep up the good work Jeff!
Your channel is unbelievably helpful man! Keep doing the great work! Cheers!
Thanks Jeff, this is perfect and very timely! I'm trying to help my partner do squats for the first time, and this was one point I really wasn't 100% confident about.
Honestly perfect timing, was experiencing knee pain from squats due to improper form, going to implement those techniques that you mentioned!
MBM are becoming my favorite videos on YT.
I remember when I wouldn’t ever let my knees go past my toes because I thought that was the worst squat mistake you could make. Little did I know 😂
Lexes O'Hara a lot of pros will disagree on this. He makes it seem so uncontroversial in his video by reading a few studies. He has a BSc in biochem. No kinesiology, exercise science, or masters degree. You should ask a biomechanics prof or sports physical therapist. I also can't see any evidence of actually working in the field of training people, where you will get individuals who come in with musculoskeletal problems so are you gonna advise them with something so controversial as squat with knees in front of the toes on your liability insurance? No.
He says he is natural, but he is a bit too lean considering his stats. 5'5 and 160-180 is not Natty. Guys that height are Natty and lean around 136-150 Max if super strong.
The method picture in the study jeff is citing explains the massive increase in hip torque and therefore his conclusion.
If you look at it you will see that the guy doing it has clearly trained in the unrestricted style and has no experience restricted. As in... a proper restricted squat should ALSO keep the face behind the toes.
He is trying to reach the same head height...
He is narrowing his stance to fit the restriction board width, increasing profile length of his femurs and messing up all the angles and proportional leverage.
Losing core stability thus flexing from the mid back.
All of this pitches his face past his toes and increases the relative lever action of the high load resulting in exponential torque at the hip.
A ...
- wider stance and restriction board.
- More flexible hamstrings.
And better coaching for the athlete in the test would have yielded very different results.
Jeff is great. And yes a healthy knee can handle knees just past the toes (as long as it happens late and not early in the decent).
However the risk and strain in the knee for shearing force, esply the ACL increases exponentially at the mid point of the movement.
BUT it will also allow for greater quad work relative to glutes.
Take your pick.
Hope that helps.
@@jrg305 are you calling him a lair
Brilliant vid, with sources from academic research. He's the real MVP. My knees are starting to really hurt from decades of doing restricted squats, and i have long legs so it's almost impossible for them not to go over. This makes me feel better!
Love this, I always felt so uncomfortable in my hips trying to restrict my knees.
Wow, this explains so much. I've never gotten past 285 on squat because I got injured at that weight twice. The first time, I tipped a lumbar vertebrae out of place. The second time, something happened to my hip. It made this weird grinding noise and then I felt like it couldn't support weight for a bit. I need to let my knees go forward more apparently!
This finally put my mind at rest regarding this controversy, thank you!
Thanks Jeff! Another awesome video. Btw, I like the addition of the table lamp. It adds to the aesthetics of the video.
Awesome, my form needs some fixing and now i dont have to worry about my knees going past my toes. great video
When Jeff talks I feel like all my problems go away. He makes me feel so safe and secure, he's so calm and objective and patient (it seems). Is that a weird feeling to have? LOL
Just finished my LEG workout and I'm watching this now while cycling 😁
I went to an Orthopedic two days ago because I have knee pain. He asked me to move my knee in certain positions but I didn't feel any pain during that time. I only feel pain while squat/lunge. Since I am medically fine, I think the pain is from the squat position because I never let me knees pass my toes.
Nice seeing your take on this one, Jeff.
Concise, articulate and bias with research evidence supporting your statements.
Thankyou.
Glad to get some data on this. My knees are pretty mangled right now due largely to squatting heavy with a crappy form for too long. Trying to get it fixed, this was helpful.
Great information!!!. I was a competitive Olympic Weightlifter in the 80s. We did heaps of squats as a training exercise for our C&J and Snatching. Years later in the early 2000s after many years of no lifting I was confused by a personal trainer trying to correct my squats, "don't let your knees go over your toes!". I didn't have the heart to tell him at 13 years old I was able to squat 140kg for 3 reps. To be fair I was 30 at the time he told me this, not to mention fat and struggling with 100kg for 10 reps as I got back into it. You want to learn to squat for shear power and strength spend some time with Olympic and Power lifters. 😊
Never getting bored of any of your videos , you’re really awesome ♥️♥️♥️
Tysm! Loved your breakdown of the research, technique details, and the effects of skeletal differences on depth and forward lean.
Really enjoy this series a lot 😁 keep them coming Jeff💪🏼
This is great and so inline with what the body naturally wants to do - toes and knees in the same line. Thanks Jeff! Really liked the study and the three main pints you mentioned, especially the direction of the barbell (going straight down). Looove it! Keep it up!
Anyone else would love a vid of him talking about the science behind working the one muscle group everyday and overloading the cells in the muscle forcing the muscle to grow giving crazy results in such a short amount of time. There's a lot of controversy on this topic but body buildings swear this works well and there's a lot of studies done on it proving it works well
thomas .doherty yeah I really want him to do a vid on nucleus overload
HitlerNr 2 right, it'd be so informative, much better than any videos on the topic on TH-cam anyways
It depends on many factors. If reasonably trained subject start working out daily, he will quickly get more muscle mass and myonuclei, because of the increase in training volume, but only if he manages to recover. However, if you overtrain, it will have an inverse effect.
I don't think it has any benefits over general periodization. If one gets crazy gains from it, he is probably under trained anyway.
I hope Jeff takes a look at this issue.
He would do it but there’s little to no research
Thank you for this video. At 6’4” with longer legs than torso and the ability to go ass to grass with heels firmly on the ground, I’m constantly getting “corrected” lol.
No better way to start your Monday, other than a MBM ! Specially when it’s leg day
Can't spell Legendary without leg day
Yo I'm tryna finish the playlist and all I see is you saying the same thing in every video 😂😂😂😂well I mean you not wrong
Please release the program you’re running. Love myth busting Monday’s watching while on class. 💪🏼
This was amazing . I love your whole philosophy and so grateful you bring the science into strength! I taught this up until today to my young athletes and I’m so grateful I can start to train them
Better. Thank you jeff💪🏽
Nippard you are pure inspiration
My coaches taught me wrong about this my whole life lol
in the gym PTs approached me several times as to not go beyond toes or don't go over 90 degrees...each time I tell them I'll try, cause I don't really want to fight them over it :)
Constantin Dumitru now you can just let them watch this video while you keep doing your thing not messing up your back.
There is nothing wrong with a parallel squat. Ilyin - parallel squat. Pyrros Dimas - parallel squat. Also nothing wrong with below parallel as long as your flexibility is good.
Brutii how's it going
That’s why you gotta knowledge yourself by researching and not listening to stupid fucks
wow, this was my first time watching your video, and I have to say, it was very professional and enjoyable.
Great video as always Jeff! Keep up the good work!
*It’s nice to learn*
Jeff Nippard and Jeff Cavaliere should collaborate . Two of the best fitness channel on TH-cam
Awesome video, bro. Keep up the good work!
I’ve been waiting for this for my whole life
Jeff, first time I’ve watched one of your videos, but goddamn am I impressed. Your presentation style & research review is really insightful and easy to understand. Thanks for the fantastic overview - I can’t wait to watch more!
ditto
So greatful that you are providing so much information for free thank you So much. Good wishes for you..
Astonishing information for free feels good :) props Jeff!
Props for the video, this is exactly the sort of information every fitness trainer should be shown/aware of, rather than the spoonfed information that is considered "common" knowledge among the fitness community that is outdated and has been proven wrong. People should question current methods of doing things rather than just accepting them, especially when there is insufficient scientific evidence for doing something, that is how you move forward and beat the rest of the pack.
Heyyy Jeff I love your channel, I have learned so much from the videos that you provide, quick question, Do you still give training for contest preps? Because I'm prepping for one, and I'd love you to help me out! Thank you😊
Might be an old study, but I know for a fact the ACE training manual from the past 2 years definitely states that in its training manual. But the smart trainer I was at the time definitely keep up to date on the greatest fitness advice, some of that from you.
The picture of the test with the restricted squat looked to have an exaggerated forward lean which does explain the greater strain on the spine.
I guess what i learned here is that it was absolutely correct that the more the knee passes the toes, the more strain you put on them...so its a balance between good knee positioning and spine position. So i technically wouldnt really call this "myth" busted.
Great content as always Jeff! So glad I have a short video I can direct to people who argue with me on this, instead of a 30 minute debate 🤦♂️👍
Myth bust mondays are in my regular weekly routine now! Loved these! Thanks Jeff
Big thanks Jeff keep up the awesome work
Hi Jeff, I have about 1 year to follow your channel and see the biomechanical explanations of the exercises.
In the squat whether or not the knee of the toe passes depends on it.
There are many variables to consider, and one of them is the flexibility and stability of hips and ankles.
In all the time I have to train I have listened and read about different studies, that all have good points and others do not.
In my case I have increased the work of fleixibility of the hip flexor psoas and my ankles, to not have to do all the traction force with my lower back.
Now that depends on the type of person doing the squat, somehow not everyone is ready.
In my opinion I think the knee should not be carried further than 10-15 degrees to the front, and that is why mechanical strain affects the knee more than the same quadricep and gluteus that is why we do squats.
For this you have to take many variables ..
It's a pleasure to see your videos, always wanting to see new ones, I've never commented on any, but it's always good to discuss what makes us want to see them.
I hope you are well, greetings..
Love all these informational videos! Thanks for sharing!
Great content. Thanks for looking out for my lower back.
Thankyou, This is super helpful!! My best friend has been telling me not to go past the toes for the last year. ohoho how little did she know! Im gonna stick with my natural squat with my knees slightly past the toes as IT helps keep the bar in a straight line and prevents my overall body from falling forward.
You must make sure you have strength in your complete range of movement please check out kneeovertoesguy for his ability testing on his 7 movements
knowledge always evolves...
Really enjoyed this video 👍 Love the nerdy squat stuff thanks for making!!
actual science in a lifting video? Damn never seen that. Thanks bro
Leg day today! Wanna incorporate those tips, thank you Jeff!
@Jeff Nippard, great video, very succinctly explained and seemingly well researched information!
I'm an aspiring exercise scientist/pt myself and will take your tips on board!
Keep putting out the great content 😊
Maybe do a squat depth video next??
Going parralel is deep enough, but you can always go lower if you can =)
Partials aren't usefull(maybe for specialisation work --> powerlifting) work on your ROM then
Just below parallel.. there, easy.
Depends....if you're a weightlifter, you want a high bar squat, upright torso, neutral spine, and you want to go as deep as you can. Ass to grass.
This was honestly so helpful, my knees don’t hurt anymore
Love it Jeff, great content as always!
Jeff PLEASE MAKE A POWERLIFTING SPECIFIC PROGRAM.
I'm working on a few full body programs. Planning to release a few in May and June!
Jeff Nippard CAN'T WAIT!
what would he know about powerlifting? texas method, wendler 531, madcow, smolov, bulgarian method , stronglifts5x5, sheiko.
youre welcome
Check Barbell Medicine for excellent powerlifting programs.
Can you do a video about squatting narrow vs squatting wide - shoulder width apart vs past shoulder width apart? Benefits of each, forms explained, etc
Look up juggernaut squat pillars 5 short videos- that covers everything
Thanks for the video Jeff. Alan Thrall would agree with your conclusions : weight in the squat should line up with the middle of the foot and knee travel over the toes is not something to worry about unless really excessive. On a side note, you look a bit tired, maybe a bit sad. Hope you are feeling good, and if applicable, hope you feel better.
Another cracking video from the best fitness TH-camr
I found this video SO HELPFUL!
Excellent points! I've argued with some guys because i have long femurs. They'd have me off balance and falling backwards. You don't have to be unreasonably uncomfortable for lifting. Thanks dude!
Very helpful video! I've just gone through this in my sport and exercise science course
Great video. I always admire your use of literature when making a point. Good job!