B&W 802 D4 vs. KEF REF5 M
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2022
- #hifi #audiophile #loudspeaker
Well heres a little comparison between some mainstream brands from a local HiFi seller in Buckhead ATL. GA named HiFi Buys.
I would say this is a store that sells the highly marketed brands of HiFi. This means they sell the manufacturers that do the MOST marketing, meaning they buy a LOT of advertising from the magazines and online and therefore are reviewed favorably nearly 100% of the time. This of course means they are not usually the REAL, TRUE AUDIOPHILE equipment, but rather the most well known with best resale value making them the most bought and then resold flotsam and jetsam in the marketplace.
This is a perfect example of what people are taught is good sound.. this analytical, dry, perfectly imaging, hardly engaging presentation of music. To many of us its BORING.
These types of audio are many times considered for the aesthetic LOOK over the sonic. As long as it sounds halfway decent and the Wife will approve the look then it gets purchased. This defines the MAINSTREAM.
So this is a good point of reference and learning piece for some of you.
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REAL TALK! I'm impressed and intrigued by your approach. Love your analysis at 14:26. I couldn't agree more! You sound experienced and straight forward. Thank you for taking the time. I'm on board brother!
Thanks Man, I appreciate your Subbing if you would be so kind. ;-)
@@OCDHIFiGuy Absolutely. I had done that.
I love how you go look at the "popular" equipment and give your real opinion on them. I think this video is great and love to see you do some more of these in the future too. I have the classé delta stereo amp with a pair of magico s3's and I really enjoy the combination of them together. Keep up the great work and can't wait to watch some more.
Thanks Andy, please support by subscribing ! More coming up !
@@OCDHIFiGuy I've been subscribed for a while and part of the tribe. 😁 I love your way of just telling the truth. I actually talked to you on the phone last spring and just a great guy to talk to. Hopefully I'll buy some gear from you in the near future too. Thanks and keep up the great work.
To each his own. That's the great thing about this hobby. I prefer the KEF sound. Open, wide soundstage, neutral. Same for electronics - I like Anthem. Don't care about what the boxes look like, only what I hear.
I like jazz and classical. When it comes to rock, I prefer progressive. The "Tales From Yesterday" Yes tribute, and Bela Fleck's "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo" make great demo music for me.
Well I'm happy for you that you like them. You should perhaps try an Audio show and see what really well designed speakers sound like 👍
A pity an "expert" doesn't seem to know anything about the history of B&W or Kef, in fact based his comment he doesn't seem to know anything about hi-fi at all.
Kef are boring and soundstage is miles away compared to Martin Logan. (I compared Kef Bldes $22k vs Martin Logan $6k)
@@schawinskyMartin Logan will indeed have a wider, more holographic soundstage. You can go even further in that direction with Omnis like Ohm Walsh, MBL, and German Physics. What you give up is precise, headphone-like imaging. I prefer soundstage over imaging, it's more like a live performance to my ears.
Hey, I really want to know your opinion since I’m looking for a solid 2 channel setup. At the job I work at the speakers are almost half of off and I’m currently deciding on if I should go for the 802 d4 paired with ma352 or kef r5 with mark levison 5805 or vice versa. I wish we sold focals or Sonus Faber but we do not anymore. What would be your suggestion. It would greatly help.
Thank you
What did you end up with? I listened to a showroom system with 802 D4s twice, for hours at presentations and I could barely enjoy it.
@@kristofvadnai7468 I bought McIntosh 611 with mark levinson 5206 and the kef blades
Hey man, love your videos :) Have you ever heard Revel? Like the Be series? I really wanted to get the 328be or 228, but the kef reference series were similar price, was wondering your thoughts if there is anything ''better'' in and around that price range of 15-20k. I dont like the forward sound of BW, I like a smooth, flat ''warmish'' kind of sound, any thoughts? Thanks :D
I think Revel may be a bit forward too.. no personal experience with them however.
Great vid, the classe is D class amp?
Mikey could you recommend a good integrated amplifier
Appreciate the subjective perspectives, but the KEF most certainly does not have plastic woofers, midrange, or tweeter. Agree that the build quality is on a different level with the B&W, for sure. Also worth pointing out that in terms of frequency response, the KEF will be far more linear and “textbook” than the B&W. This is coming from a Ref 3 owner and someone who’s had the 805 D4 in my listening room for several months when they were first released. There’s a 7dB rise on the B&W tweeter relative to the midrange that absolutely correlates with your listening impressions and would definitely make the KEF sound dull up top by comparison. But I would suggest only by comparison, and not objectively as could be measured in an anechoic chamber. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the info ! I think I'll make an effort to never own either of these petered out, once great brands...
Hey Mike,do you Like Magico speakers?
Really enjoyed this one! Back to Mikey listening and telling it how it is, more like this please.
Thanks Jason ! Coming right up !
some of the best stuff I've had and heard in the past involved B&W 801s and 802 matrix. The nautilus are also very real sounding and spooky present with the right electronics
I actually thought the KEF sounded way better, and more real. B&W sounded thin and "tinny". I agree with you about the aesthetics, though. Those B&Ws are gorgeous.
Badass Mikey! Thanks for putting in the work. I would like to see the B&W’s with the NATS, Verastarr and Playbacks Designs.
You know I really would as well..
At that price point, and among the more traditional brands, I'd lean more toward the Monitor Audio Platinum 300 II. Those babies are nice!
I never got the Monitor Audio thing. They are pretty though... I always considered Monitor Audio Home Theater type stuff.. I think they may have gotten better. Bottom line is all three are BRITISH and I do not like the polite British sound generally speaking ..
@@OCDHIFiGuy Not all Britush Speakers are polite Mikey Proac should interest you they sure are not polite and can compete with most anything stateside. Also ATC are certainly not polite. Someone else suggested PMC they also know a thing or two
Monitor Audio is made in china. Not the old Platinums maybe. Audiophysik Virgo v plays rings arround them unless youre not a bass freak. Ap is made in germany.
The mid of b&w is very close (also louder), more detailed and sweater but kef's tone balance seems to be better. Do you think it is recording or do you feel the same with your ears?
Don't ask him!
Question: What Used or New Dac would you buy that sounds great and doesn't cost a lot < $500 now that you drug chord through the dirt
I really like my Node Blusound
Chord has something less than $500 ? if so then they are the king of below $500 I pay attention to nothing below $1K not because Im an ass, just because its not my wheelhouse nor my clients..
Great review! Spot on!
Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Great revelation and sharing. Thanks.
I have owned and auditioned B&W and Classe' products. On the B&W I think you heard what I like call their sound signature. Which is tilted upward with a detailed top end that gives them great resolution, but causes the mids to be more recessed. XP with earlier generation of Classe' products is they had a sunniness and warmth that I enjoyed. I found they mated well with my bass heavy speakers. The newer Delta series I find are geared more towards being fast, lean, and accurate, but still have a bit of that sunny disposition that the early models had. I really had an great Saturday afternoon listing to a pair of Delta M's and Pre. The source was Tidal through a Lumin. I have very diverse taste, so I was playing just about everything through them. Classical, Rock, Jazz, R&B, and a little EDM. The thing I would be curios know about is after you work the amps, can you hear the fans spin up? These run in Class A bias most of the time (The first 35 Watts) so they can start to heat up just like a regular class A amp. Even if it is feint, for me fan noise during a quiet passage would be a distraction .
Thanks for your feedback. I did NOT hear a fan...
I am using the classé delta stereo amp with my magico s3's and I can't hear the fan on mine either. I know that I read some reviews and I was nervous about it but I can't hear it at all in my room with my system.
Good video Mikey! I enjoyed the little road trip hopefully we can see some more of that. And never change brother we like you telling us how it is.😁🎧👍
Thanks Shane , will do !
Hi OCD what your take on the classic B&W Nautilus 805's (Great Video)
I think the speakers are built well and I know they are respected but Ive never owned any to have a good grip on how to get the most out of them. Part of my reasons for not buying also has to do with inside info on how the company is run, who owns it and how they treat/protect the dealers. If the company is no good to the dealers and they are a cocky Psychopathic Corporation, Ill never buy the brand no matter how good they sound. I know B&W changed ownership within the last year I believe...Someone I respect worked for them and took off running.. so my feelings are mixed and not formed into a solid opinion. Id still like to play with a pair to form a solid opinion however. The Classic Nautilus are a total collectible. I would own them just to keep them somewhere because of how Iconic they are ..
So What are good audiophile brands for speakers OCD?
Great Question. I like Planar Magnetic panels like Magnepan for instance. I am hard pressed to like Box speakers but Im on the hunt... stay tuned..
Thanks for the analysis. I find that overall KEF seem to excel a bit more with their bookshelf speakers. The floorstanding models, even the top end just don't quite have the synergy to really get me enthusiastic about them. Interesting points about the build, i'd never really thought about the stark difference between the build and design quality of the diamond vs kef box. It's a really good point, I never thought of that - and I used to own the Kef Ref 1s. I haven't heard the D4 but I did audition the 800 D3 and I thought it was top forward. Cymbals and percussion and 's' sounds too pronounced for my hearing (and that was a Classe matching too from memory). That little comparison you play for that Freya Ridings song sounds very forward/fatiguing for me on the diamonds. It's definitely much more present though - almost sounds like the microphone is right infront of her lips vs 2 meters away on the KEF. The KEF sounds very dull here, like it's being played at a wake and everyone has left the room. Polar opposites between the two and probably just bad matching? One of those audition days where you get home and happy with your own system I bet! Anyway I love these comparisons so thanks again for the insights. Subbed
Also like the Revel 328 Be’s and Totem Elements floor standing speakers
Never heard them ..
So I have B & W 803s little old, but still a good value @ 3k used also thru in rotel RB 1048 and a rotel preamp
Did this set up definitely had a forward presentation
But when I change the amplifier to a carver 275 It’s moved out that top end and it was a great sound now running it off to Carver 350 monoblocks definitely sweet
There you go...
I have listened to the B&W 802 D4 speakers extensively and I agree with your assessment of them. As with their previous models, B&W's top end always seem to be on the bright and forward side, although I still do think that the B&Ws are phenomenal speakers. I think you might like the Kef's top-of-the-line Blade speakers a lot more than the lesser model that you heard.
I totally agree with you on the KEF brand, I shudder with dread if someone even mentions them. Given the price point in the video, which speakers would you recommend and why?
Hi Ken, Id like to hear the Muon .. lets see what these guys got... !
@@Hillster7 Im about to release that info give me 30 days... Box speakers that are GREAT are few and far between..
@@OCDHIFiGuy Stenheim Alumine 3?
Obviously not had them then. Can assure you they sound more natural than the artificial looking b&w, designer pieces.
Kef, research what's gone into the reference meta, this ocd guy is fos guy
First time I will agree with you. I had B&W CM8 S2 before and I happened to be at Bestbuy. Saw Martin Logan Motion 40i, B&W 702 S2 and two Kef Speakers, The Kef was floor standing and also a bookshelf with 2 woofers. I demoed them. Just like you describesd these ones. Even though not the same models but that’s extacly how they sounded. The Kef was lifeless to me. No top end at all. B&W was lean and forward. Martin Logan had the body, tight bass and laid back. I ended up selling selling my CM8s and bought Martin Logans Motion 35xti. I will still buy B&W but the 804 D2 is the one I’m after. Still loving my Martin Logans
Good for you man !
You need to hear the B&W 802Ds wit Chord Electronics - like the SPM 1200E Stereo Amp. Chord was used at Abbey Road thill they switched to Classe Audio.
Sounds like a business arrangement.
New KMD Orchestalls 600R speakers at $15K from South Korea !
Game-Changer
Mikey,since i value your opinion alot. Can you recommend 2 DACs from 2000-5000 $.What do you think of Rockna Wavelight DAC?Thx
Never heard it but Rockna is a strange company with strange practice. And the guy who sells them is a new dealer to audio.. So Id go with a different brand. Ive got my fave which is COS Engineering D-10 which has volume control and Streamer for $4500.. Contact me if interested, i have one for sale .
Hi OCD Hifi, all drivers on the kef are aluminium by the way, please do get your facts right before dissing a speaker publicly. There is a white paper that they have published for the kef. I respect your opinion, but on this video I feel you were just taking a speaker to take a piss on.
Would love to hear Mikey's thoughts on Klipsch heritage line like La Scala & Cornwall. They are not built super well but also cost a lot for the hardware on offer. Would like to know about a better speaker that offers that same lively sound but a better quality product.
They are s great value. ESPECIALLY on the second hand market.
What are your thoughts on Tekton speakers?
I dont like them. The look kills my OCD. Like a Flys eye and just too unnatural a configuration. Ive heard they sound great at first because they image well, but after time people sell them die to listening fatigue...
great video thanks. I felt the same with the BW
I've owned a b&w 802D2 for 2 years, humen vioce sound is exellent. however, when listening to strings music like violin etc, my older dynaudio definitely sound more balanced and the word musical! Because i mostly listen to pop songs, b&w is my way to go. D4's build quality is much better than D3, and i prefer the sound on my D2 than D3 after some comparison.
I got you ...
Classe pre has a built in peq with time alignment and some other dsp functions as well as a bypass
Yuck. Maybe that was off...
@@OCDHIFiGuy and an app to control it. Its pretty cool
@@InnovativeBuildersmd Im sure it is ... Im not an EQ it to fix it guy though.. Thats a pro audio thing and the results sound contrived. Not effortless.. to me anyways..
KEF Reference are very dependent on equipment matching, and definitely needs a pair of high quality subs (preferably Rel S series) to make magic happen. I’ve never heard a B&W with their diamond tweeters to ever sound good to my ears. Waaay too bright for my liking.
Ditto goes for me ..
Really curious about more thoughts on the B and W system and what you would match up with these speakers. I’m running 703 S2 and I get what you are saying. The Good and Bad! That said streaming thru a Chord Qutest with Rotel 200 watt power amp. Good Video!
I would not use Chord with B&W personally... Both lean forward... Potential for harshness, but if its working in your room, then great !
I have my B & W first running with rotel 1048 200 watts per channel
Then I changed to a car for 275 and finally a car for 350 mono block and that smoothed out the top end
I like very much the way you give your message through !
Thank you so much 🙂
My pleasure@@OCDHIFiGuy
Another great upload. Not sure were the KEF's are manufactured, however the 800 Series B&Ws are still hand made UK (only the 800 series).
Thanks !
@@3dfx243 The KEF Reference series (and the Blades) are built in Maidstone in southern England. All the cheaper KEFs are now made in China.
Heard these KEF spks yesterday with Accuphase electronics & the sound was somewhat muffled as though a thick blanket was covering the speakers….
I dont like KEF at all...
Would love to know your assessment on B&W 805/803D3/4 vs the Focal Utopia Diablo/scala
I heard 802d4s and Focal Utopia Scala Evos in the same store and the Focal was maybe more balanced, but neither of them was enjoyable. Absolutely soulless, unmusical sound. Get something thats made for music and not sales
EQ down the peak in the top end on the B&W and set them up correctly in the room I bet they’d be fantastic. The build quality of those things is awesome.
I dont EQ as a rule. Only passive EQ by using room treatment or other tweaks like amp stands or cables. I agree on build quality wholeheartedly..
@@OCDHIFiGuy too bad. Digital PEQ in Roon can be helpful in smoothing things out at the source. Of course if you can handle things with room positioning and treatments, cables, that’s cool, but those B&Ws are deliberately voiced like that with the treble peak.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Is EQ bad?
Same with Focal R&D Is crazy good
Hey, what’s that song at 5:17? Great video.
Freya Ridings - Without You
that's my second video and I already love you!
I never heard either of those, but I speculate that a lot of research might had got into that concentric thingy. Something similar to TAD, Now, B&W follows the philosophy of placing woofers and tweeters all around the place. The philosophy of TAD and KEF is a point source. But to produce all of that, maybe 7-8000 max, realistically. It's a timeshare, basically, or Turkish bazaar. On Turkish bazaar, the baseline price is set so high that unsuspecting British housewives always, no matter what dealt they get, go home with at least 3 times the real price of the rug.
Hi Mikey. I am no fan of the B&W sound either but just to say the tweeter is an actual grown diamond dome. Not dust on a diaphragm. I thought the same. I actually met one of the guys who grows them. You cannot argue with that.
Yeah, thats some crazy tech! I just watched B$Ws shop tour video and they showed a little of how they are grown.
Sick level R&D, and the fit and finish is second to none... Too bad the sonic was top heavy
Am considering 805 D4’s because they look good enough to keep me out of the dog house, but amp choice appears important for the D series. Some dealer and personal videos up now on TH-cam pairing 802, 805 D4’s with T+A, Luxman MX10, D’Agostino, and Gryphon Diablo 300 which seem to do a better job of reigning in the top end while controlling the base on the B&W’s (in my armature opinion)..
May I suggest you try something different for amps, and that will save you a few bucks? Okay, chiming in - B&Ws in my experience needs an amp that pops. May I suggest something like a Mark Levinson 27.5. It's very smooth, and just a shade dark, but the precise-ness and sizzle from their tweeter will even out. A good refurbished one is about $4 large. A pair Mark Levinson 436 monoblocks is very dynamic and neutral. Its mids are richer than the 27.5. A refurb'd pair is ermmmm $7 to $7.5K. If you can live with less dynamic presentation with less transient pop, but with a Class A sound, a Pass Labs Aleph 2 (100 wpc monos) or Aleph 1.2s (200 wpc). If you do go Pass, you MUST listen to it with a Pass preamp.
Straight up ! Always the best policy . Keep it honest Brother Mikey
Thanks Branko !
Even with this audio just on headphones you can tell that the B&W is just a good sounding normal speaker, but the KEF is doing something very different with it's imaging. Is it worth losing that type of imaging to have a just another flavor of the same sound you've been listening to your whole life?
the KEF convey this impression through the sensation of extreme transparency, coherence, organicity and non-fatigue sound. Thanks to the UNI-Q driver
For this kind of money you're not supposed to make major compromises. Get something proper
I have tried a lot of equipment and speakers over the last 20 years, and finally, after I paired 802d4s with Ayre monoblocks/dac and preamp I have not had a desire to upgrade anything. That preamp gave it the mid boost needed.
Thank GOD !
The older B&Ws from the 80s and 90s were more linear. My vintage 1997 Matrix 805s measured +/- 1.75 dB from 55Hz - 18 KHz. To my ears, they are neutral and non-fatiguing, with good imaging and detail. For whatever reason, B&W decided to abandon neutrality for the showroom sound. Because of this, you have to be careful in choosing front end components for the newer models.
Yes, they were the bomb...
Perhaps B&W pair well with McIntosh which has a sound signature that rolls off the top end? Although then you will have a midrange with low resolution (due to McIntosh) and probably still sucked out (due to B&W).
Great content!😬
Thank you Sir !
I bet you can get something better from the B&Ws with better placement. I’m curious about what you can do about that in your room. Great video! 🇨🇦✌️😎
Ive heard they are top heavy and are good with soft mushy sounding amps like McIntosh..
@@OCDHIFiGuy … That is why they are advertised often with Macintosh amps, They compensate for each other’s deficiencies.
If you look at the frequency range of both the speakers listed the B&W smokes the kef, the B&W even does down to 17hrtz very good range. The Kef is not close. At 26 I would take the Magico A5
👍
Awesome to hear someone cut through the BS, Thank you for your very honest review! How close does the B&W come to open baffle sound?
He's not really cutting through anything when he guesses at materials of the speaker
B&W look well built, but they measure badly. I like your honest opinion. Most reviews on TH-cam are adverts for manufacturers and never say anything bad about the products. Everything they reveiw is wonderful. I wish they other reviews were as honest as you. They fear the manufacturers won't send them products to review if they tell the truth and give an honest opinion. Many people rely on reviews, and it's not easy getting to demos. Most dealers near me are either Kef or B&W, and they are not really near me. The dealer with a larger range is a two hour drive away. That means people need to listen to reviews. I am in London UK.
yes, the voices in B&W may sound more “present” but definitely in my opinion it sounds more natural, organic, realistic, pleasant and airy in KEF. As many have mentioned in the comments, there is something about the KEF sound that is really captivating, it is so transparent, natural, realistic, organic, pleasant and coherent…
Have you heard kef rs11 I hear Andrew Robinson rave about them but theres a great local deal on a set of KEF Ref 5.
un-earned confidence+diarrhea of the mouth.....am reminded of my 3rd grade sandbox
Mikey, how are youvdoing. I have always heard the B&W stuff hooked up to McIntosh gear and have never been impressed.
This seems to be a regular pairing at shows and demo places, but I always wanted to hear them with better gear.
I would love to see you get a pair in for an honest review. Some of their lower end bookshelf speakers on the 800 and 700 series, like a 705s2 or s3 and 805 d2 and d3 are not bad and the diamond tweater does cut threw. What has been your experience with Simaudio Moon gear and your opinion of it?
At this price point they should invite you in for a nightcap and make you waffles in the morning! 👊🏼
Right ?
Here in the uk with that kind of money id be looking at ATC
Put an Audio Research Ref6 as pre on the D'agostino's then put the B&W's on that, then get floored.
Watch the dealer laugh if I ask for that ...LOL They have it all there including Ref 6 .. but I hear dealers these days dont want to mix their rigs around..
@@OCDHIFiGuy Hi Mikey, thanks for coming by our showroom! We actually move stuff around all the time for customers (maybe more than we should sometimes as not everything is a winning combo), next time if you're curious to try something, just ask!
i heard the KefR 1, not reallybad but my old 201/2 Ref sounds hetter at 1/2 the price; also thenew ref 1 is hard to drive you need at least a hegel 190
Kef looked like something the Harmon Kardon Group would put out as a profit maker to boost stock prices.
B$W
ka BAM !! Nailed it..
Personally, If you are buying a speaker for aesthetics and form, and design, by all means, ive sold speakers that way for people because thats what they wanted nothing wrong with that line of thought, imo neither look great, but id be buying for sound for 20k+
I hear you...
The currency exchange rate for the British Pound has significantly dropped. I would think the retail should now be around $16000 to $18000 for the B&W's.
The woofers are NOT poly on the Kef. Also, you are comparing the top of the line B&W VS NOT top of the line KEF's. A more fair comparison would be to compare those B&W to the KEF Blades.
The B&W are NOT top of the line , they are one down. Just like the KEF. One down from the top. KEF Blows... Just my opinion... Crap speakers...
@@OCDHIFiGuy this is why the audiophile environment will never really become mainstream, you guys are absolutely insufferable, nothing is ever good enough, it's bizarre.
The 802’s are not even top of the line for bowers 😂
That top heavy B&W tuning will make it a jakyll'n hide situation from song to song. The KEF will play it all and except eq much better. Dont be that noob who buys the speaker with the most forward midrange.
EQ ? No way brother... Im not tuning a night club or P.A.
💯%😉
YEAH !
Look fwd to your grand opening.
Thanks Vic !
Yeah, the 802's build is second to none. They have a video showing how they make them. But perhaps we should cut KEF a bit of slack.
Have you seen the Klipsch Cornwall and Lascala? 😀 I swear to god they use IKEA panels.
I know the Classe is expensive but it's listed as 250 watts per channel into 8 ohms. B&W is notorious for its power requirements especially the 700 and 800 series. Did you say midbass? Are you talking about 100hz-250hz? They drop into the 2 ohms in the 100-400hz.
I would probably go 500 watts min per channel, otherwise they are probably dying unless you're playing string quartets at low levels. I guess I'd try the Musical Fidelity 8xi (550 watts per channel) and then go up from there. They are rated for 1000 watts - that number is probably what B&W want you to use for best results or at least half of it.
Id rather stick with different speakers and electronics than the ones in the stores..
I use b&w 702 s2 lovely sound and details on the right recording, but sound bad with some rexordings, i do love them through, they can be a bit too bright at times, but its really incrediable with singer voices, i won’t buy b&w again however want to try something else, but not for maybe another 5 years, something in line with perlisten r7t much more intresting at its price than those 2 speakers in this review and it cost less than half of b&w 802 d4,
WOW
Right ?
Great analysis, Mikey! An aluminum front on any speaker likely rings like a bell. Call me jaded, but I’ll take any other design over such a KEF design. I like the ATC pro speaker gear-have you auditioned those speakers?
Not yet Drago... Ill listen at the next show..
Aluminium is easily damped when constrained against another material and with a damping layer.
You may have a legitimate point in terms of the The KEF's build issues, but from the sound demo that you shared, those KEFs sound WONDERFUL! I'm sure that sound can be had for less than 22k. However, they do sound pretty good!
Wow, well believe me when I tell you that is NOT good sound. Its clear clinical perfectly imaging soulless noise.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I believe my ears.
@@OCDHIFiGuy considering you don't even know what materials the drivers are, it'll be a while before I "believe" you.
A lot of what you're hearing is narrow vs wider dispersion, and controlled breakup of the B&W midrange.
This OCD guy hasn't got a clue about hifi!
i would go with KEF any day
If I had a 599 I wouldn't buy either.. they are both mid fi.
Classe and Audioquest cable yuk.... like to see you get the B&W in your place and experiment. I heard these with Naim Statement Amps and definitely not Audioquest in the UK about a year ago. They were phenomenal. I think the Statement amps thickened out the mid bass in this configuration I dont recall hearing that lean forward presentation but the diamond tweeter sure did have some sparkle. I fear these speakers need pairing with some serious power amps to even get close to what the can do. They have a sense of ease about them, like a classy car with a huge motor, puts power down with no effort and you know your going faster than you should but it feels effortless.
The B&W doesn't have 1% kevlar. The cones are made out of their own developed material. Agree, kefs lack bass at that price point. You only get deep bass with the blades. The Kef cone material is paper coated with aluminium.
Well wish I watched this video before actually buying my b&w's recently Mikey. The magnepans are the best but man then you have to have 5000 grand for an amp.
Abbey Road are in the process of Switching from B&W to ATC...
Have you ever given them a whirl?
Not yet... heard of them though ..
Well im a bit shocked by your review. Even i am a huge KEF fan i can understand you. I can follow you in your meaning of build quality. For 22 grant yea you can see the difference with the B&W. The sound… i dont know its hard to hear online with headphones. I am in the running to buy a new system. I have KEF reference one for more than 30 years and i still love them like crazy. But i was looking out maybe for B&W. But when i read or watch a lot of reviews its always the same… B&W is Cristal clear then the KEF’s are and thats what im worried about. I am a huge music listener of classical music. So i think that cristal clear sound gonna gets me tired with that fatigue sound. The KEF’s are more warm. I was thinking about the B&W 803 d4 with Macintosh… or the Blade 2 meta. Some thoughts about this to help me out? Thanks for your review, keep up the good work!
Did you decide?
@@xsamitt no not yet. But I think I’m going for B&W 803 or 801 with I think mcintosch. That’s what I have in mind. But sure first im going to a shop and let me advise and hear in real some examples. Going to listen what my ears gonna tell me 😊
@@keanu131buy the blades. Or the REF 5 Meta
dont buy the blades. you will be disappointed
Why?@@schawinsky
I literally listened to the d4 series paired with classe delta gear today for hours and switched out multiple things. The dac in the pre is meh. It will get you by but it’s imaging isn’t the most palpable and the bass is crap. But add an esoteric dac to it and the speaker becomes super high end. The classe stack is wonderful just needs a different dac. It is forward however and some people don’t like that but it’s smooth enough and images so well that it’s more like wearing headphones. However the b&w are extremely dry and need not only fast, but something with a rounded leading edge or they are way too dry and the timbre of the decay is sharp and once again trash.
I still have not heard anything in a regular retail HiFi store that cut the mustard for me. Esoteric DACS still dont have it ... They are OK. Classe... also has drifted from how great it once was...
@@OCDHIFiGuy classe is better than it’s ever been actually. The dac is just an add on with nice features. The capability of just the amp and pre if you add an external dac is very good. Esoterica’s main trick is how big they make the sound and give insight into the dynamics allowing you to hear the tiny nuances and textures in a different manner than most dacs do. But they do have their own particular sound that does annoy me after a while. I’ve sold more dacs than any other gear I’ve owned because I get bored of them fast. Maybe I just haven’t heard the right ones.
😢 nailed it though 👍
HEY now !
I own a pair of KEF R900, had them for 10 years. The materials they are made of are so cheap, both the wood and plastic. The feet have started to break off because the pressed wood they are anchored in is falling apart. straight up robbery, thanks for pointing that out.
yeah, its junk.
the build quality is horrible
Nice Dracula work! I have refused to listen to B&W speakers for a few reasons. Sold at BBuy. Tons of them on resold. Too forward. The real deal killer is I hate the look. Beyond those three things I am sure some people love them.
Yeah, its sad... The fit and finish is impeccable...
I thought it was pizza chef, not dracula. lol
And the Rowland gear
Sorry , missing your point..
@@OCDHIFiGuy Rowland amps with B&W.
AQ cables are RF antennas that we all missed in our rigs, as reported by ASR measurement authority.
compare like this is super unrelated. KEF use super duper hi-end monoblock system but b&w doesn't do justice. no no no
Kef sounds way better 🏡 home boy 💪🎬
😂😂😂 Enjoy your card board box aluminum can speakers.
Spending $20k+ that doesn’t have four wheels is insane! How many people can spend that kind of money and hear the difference between $20k+ and a $5k speakers?
Spending ANYTHING on gambling is utterly silly to me... HiFi is a solid bet. 100% return if you know how to buy. If you can't hear the difference you should not buy it... ;-)
Interesting. I have heard all of that equipment - but never those exact systems and obviously not that room. Nevertheless I'm quite surprised at the conclusions you come to. I'd be interested to know what the non-big-name brands are that you favour.
Fischer&Fischer Loudspeakers of Germany completely outperform both of these brands.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I've not come across those. I shall certainly keep my eyes (and ears!) peeled for them.
I expected you to trash both for being too analytical, but the B&W seems to be pretty good after all.
you buy the sound that you like , and than the material dosn't mather , its not because your neighbourg has a hifi that cost a 20.000$ more than yours ,that maybe is not "your" sound ,even whit this pricetag , my 1993 technics amp su-vx800 ,died and buy a new Marantz pm-12 and i have to say ,what an upgrade ,i have still have the technics speakers, but i never knew they could do that sound ,what i really want? the technics SB-R1 speakers and the Marantz pm10 to feed them ,this combination is what I like ,whatever my neighbourg thinks , i dont care , always buy what YOU like to hear
Yes, its true... The other story is is it worth the money or is it overpriced for cheap materials ??
Kefs take 3 months to break in.
They sound like a different set of speakers after that mark and I thought the B&Ws sounded hollow
These were at a dealer so I presume they WERE broken in ,,,, but you never know..
How does Goose sound on these two rigs lol. Umphreys McGee is also the Jam YO!!! Those kefs look like a 3-5k speaker at most. The Kefs don’t even look as nice as the Heco Aurora 700.
Totally true, its sad... umphreys are coming and Ive never been to a show... Im afraid Im just missing my Dead shows and will burn out on these "After Bands" (After Jerry)
Only like B&W Nautilus, other model are just slow and muddy in bass.
These were fast and sharp.
Nautilus are one of the fastest, transparent, realistic, detailed and refined speakers ever made in history, friend
You think the KEF has plastic woofers? What?