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I have written my first few lines so many times until I am embarrassed to say how many. The hook should draw them in but it must also deliver on a promise AND connect to the resolution….. My brain hurts.
just a small correction, Tolkien did in fact write about his world before the Hobbit, but the Hobbit being a more contained tale with only references to his older lore is probably one reason why he was able to publish it
Also, the Hobbit wasn't supposed to be in his main fantasy world, but the popularity of it made him reconsider and merge the two worlds. So he was open to change his world for good reasons.
Yes and no. Sandra's point still remains, though he may not have articulated it the best. Tolkien did spend lots of time building an entire language and writing the creation of his world before ever starting the Hobbit, but lots of that is because he never even planned to publish the Hobbit or for it to be a part of his world. It is true, however, that while writing the Hobbit he invented things as he went. Before writing the Hobbit there was no such thing as the lonely mountain, Dwarves were always evil, and Hobbits weren't even a figment in his imagination. He created these things as he went along. Once again, with the LotR he did the same. Mithril, the dynamics of the One Ring, Ents, and the identity of Gandalf and the other wizards were all discovered as he wrote the story. In fact, it wasn't until he had nearly finished writing the books that he finally decided to give Gandalf one of the three Elven rings. Once he finished the LotR and the Hobbit he then went back and rewrote much of the Silmarillion so that it was consistent with his previous works. That's why there are some plot holes in the Silmarillion and creation of the world, notably, where did Trolls, Orcs, and Hobbits come from, and why are they (as well as Ents and Dwarves) not considered "children of Illuvitar"?
This might be your best video yet. Absolutely spot-on with the constant re-writes of the first chapter and comparing one's own first drafts to already published books. I can totally relate.
I ve only writen anything once so far. The world inside my head has been brewing for more then 5 years and your videos made me bring a story within come to paper.
Loving the videos. They're opening my mind to many things in the process of writing and what are the mistakes I'm making that are stopping me from finishing my novel, especially the videos like this I'm definitely the one that's been planning for too long, it's time to write
Glad to hear the video was helpful for you. Best of luck with your writing, and don't worry - MANY writers have been stuck in the planning process before - me too, way too much 🙂
I just learned how to get past the overly worldbuilding stage. Once I got as much as I needed right now, I started writing, and now I'm eight chapters in. If I need something, I'll come up with something quick and move on.
The first chapter is actually the one I’m most confident about (perhaps a little overly so); the first draft of it was already pretty close to what I wanted, and the rest was just a series of minor modifications, never a complete rewrite. That doesn’t mean a complete rewrite won’t be due later down the line. For the moment, it feels like it accomplishes most things it needs to. My current obstacle is the usual “mushy middle syndrome”, combined with a word count that is already so high that my inner critic says I have to cut a bunch of stuff before I’m allowed to continue. I should probably just turn off the word count in Scrivener, if that’s possible. 😂 Most people seem to need it as a motivator for what they have accomplished per day. But if you’re a massive overwriter like me, it’s counter-productive. It’s easy for me to pump out 1,000 or 2,000 words on a day that end up leading the story nowhere. Excessive planning of a story is probably just the natural response to a past experience of having tried pantsing and derailing the story completely. And in 2024, the best argument against pantsing being a viable technique for complex fantasy stories is G.R.R. Martin himself. 😇
I fall into the Planning Paradox every time I start a story. I set out to plan out every detail of the story, then end up losing interest in it once I finish the outline. I'm going to try the Scene Map method, because I really need to change something before I drive myself insane. Great video!
Thank you for the feedback, glad it seemed helpful to you. I know the feeling about planning too much and losing interest by the way. The scene map approach did help for me because it left room for discovery while providing enough substantial guidance. I'm not a pantser/discovery writer so I do like to have some structure in advance. Just gotta find the right balance 🙂
I started with the planning (paradox) as my interest was just to make a world with its history, races, cultures, languages, cities, alphabets, gods, goddesses, etc. Then I made an outline for a story inside the world and I have written a bit* of the first draft. * other things dictated my time and energy for a while, but now I'm back at it.
Right after watching this video I realized I was falling the research trap as I was researching tons of stuff on herbalism, alchemy, medieval warfare, armor, weapons, armies, logistics, siege warfare, okay you get the idea. In addition to coming up with new ideas and even the world building maze. This helps me a lot too!
Yeah I was trying to find out what sort of herbs were used for medieval battlefield medicines and what sort of crystals were said to have healing properties by medieval alchemists. Alchemy and herbalism are big in my setting (I have you to thank for the herbalism from your how to do a female character video!). I also wanted to be realistic as one can be in a magical world with medieval military logistics and warfare. I was jumping back and forth between my research, my world building notes, and my story. So your tips and advice have helped a lot! Hopefully, one day, you’ll do a Discord channel!
I'm not a writer, but I've always liked The lord of the rings, zelda, fable, and I started a story in my head that I've been trying to write at some point but I haven't started and this just gave me the courage to just tell the story, without needing to worry about any barrier, that'll come with revisions.
Such a comment means a lot, really, so thank you. As I continue repeating in many instances, I just want to help people tell their stories, no matter what they want to do that for 🙂
Regarding TBD, it does sometimes matter to do (relatively) in-depth research ahead of time, because it will change the outcome you want for the story. Easier to explain with an example: I have a character who gets a punctured lung, but survives thanks to medical intervention, but it's a close call and builds tension. How said character gets injured, how far from proper medical treatment, who's on hand to render what assistance, all have an effect on whether the character makes it. And a major character living or dying obviously impacts the story a lot. But I did make the mistake of researching in too much depth. You just need to know enough about the scenario to ensure that the outcome you desire is plausible, and then you can fill in the gaps later.
I got stuck on my book and believed I’d never complete it. I was researching spacecraft, air pressure, and how the atmosphere of different planets would affect the ship. I wholly believed that because I couldn’t figure this stuff out, my readers would be disappointed in its believability. Eventually I decided to stop researching and just write and it was the best decision I made in my book and probably one of my flagship chapters.
@TheTaleTinkerer yeah, it’s one of the few traits I have (aside from creativity) that make me think I could pull it off as a writer. My new hang up is that a friend told me “Everyone has one good book in them.” It was meant to be encouraging but now I’m wondering if this is my one good book. Like always, the answer is to shut up and write. 😝
I make mine 30 books long and still ongoing and I'm trying to get to an end so I can foreshadow things, but I just keep getting ideas... And now it's so long I get frustrated...
You're planning a 30 books long series? Did I get that right? That would certainly be a huge task even for the most experienced writers in the world. Maybe the scope is just too much to tackle at once? 🙂
My house is full of half written stories, and notebook after notebook of random scenes. Sometimes when I reread them I like them. Other time's I think, "What was wrong with me that day?"😂
Oof, a lot of these feel painfully relevant. I have rewritten my first chapters numerous times, been distracted by new projects, and spent too much time world building and researching. Not to mention generally worrying that the basic idea is too derivative, oh and getting stuck on a sentence for days due to not being happy with the wording. Is that a clean sweep?
If you're already working on one of them and it actually sounds and feels interesting, try finishing that one after writing down whatever key details you already have for the other ideas. Then revisit them later 🙂
If you think about ending the series, yeah probably. But he did prove more than once though that he can actually finish things - and at high quality on top of it 🙂
✍ Level up your fantasy writing and worldbuilding skills for free! Join hundreds of writers getting weekly tips, tricks, and inspiration delivered straight to their inbox every Friday. Claim your spot in our growing fantasy community: thetaletinkerer.com/newsletter
I have written my first few lines so many times until I am embarrassed to say how many. The hook should draw them in but it must also deliver on a promise AND connect to the resolution….. My brain hurts.
@@Lorna-JWB I know the feeling. Personally, I would focus on getting the full first draft done first, then go back to see what opening line fits 🙂
@@TheTaleTinkerer Good idea.
just a small correction, Tolkien did in fact write about his world before the Hobbit, but the Hobbit being a more contained tale with only references to his older lore is probably one reason why he was able to publish it
That and the fact it took him 17-19 years.
Also, the Hobbit wasn't supposed to be in his main fantasy world, but the popularity of it made him reconsider and merge the two worlds. So he was open to change his world for good reasons.
Didn't he also come up with the elven languages first?
Yes and no. Sandra's point still remains, though he may not have articulated it the best. Tolkien did spend lots of time building an entire language and writing the creation of his world before ever starting the Hobbit, but lots of that is because he never even planned to publish the Hobbit or for it to be a part of his world.
It is true, however, that while writing the Hobbit he invented things as he went. Before writing the Hobbit there was no such thing as the lonely mountain, Dwarves were always evil, and Hobbits weren't even a figment in his imagination. He created these things as he went along.
Once again, with the LotR he did the same. Mithril, the dynamics of the One Ring, Ents, and the identity of Gandalf and the other wizards were all discovered as he wrote the story. In fact, it wasn't until he had nearly finished writing the books that he finally decided to give Gandalf one of the three Elven rings.
Once he finished the LotR and the Hobbit he then went back and rewrote much of the Silmarillion so that it was consistent with his previous works. That's why there are some plot holes in the Silmarillion and creation of the world, notably, where did Trolls, Orcs, and Hobbits come from, and why are they (as well as Ents and Dwarves) not considered "children of Illuvitar"?
This might be your best video yet. Absolutely spot-on with the constant re-writes of the first chapter and comparing one's own first drafts to already published books. I can totally relate.
Thank you for the kind feedback - glad to hear the video resonated with you 🙂
This was a great video! You caught me at a time where I’ve been slipping and this was exactly what I needed to hear. Very inspiring!
I ve only writen anything once so far. The world inside my head has been brewing for more then 5 years and your videos made me bring a story within come to paper.
This video is just fantastic. One of the most useful videos I've seen about writing, and one that I really need.
Thank you for taking the time to leave that feedback - I'm glad to hear the video was helpful to you 🙂
Loving the videos. They're opening my mind to many things in the process of writing and what are the mistakes I'm making that are stopping me from finishing my novel, especially the videos like this I'm definitely the one that's been planning for too long, it's time to write
Glad to hear the video was helpful for you. Best of luck with your writing, and don't worry - MANY writers have been stuck in the planning process before - me too, way too much 🙂
I just learned how to get past the overly worldbuilding stage. Once I got as much as I needed right now, I started writing, and now I'm eight chapters in. If I need something, I'll come up with something quick and move on.
Needed to hear this. Thank you.
Glad to hear this helped you, best of luck with your story 🙂
The first chapter is actually the one I’m most confident about (perhaps a little overly so); the first draft of it was already pretty close to what I wanted, and the rest was just a series of minor modifications, never a complete rewrite. That doesn’t mean a complete rewrite won’t be due later down the line. For the moment, it feels like it accomplishes most things it needs to. My current obstacle is the usual “mushy middle syndrome”, combined with a word count that is already so high that my inner critic says I have to cut a bunch of stuff before I’m allowed to continue.
I should probably just turn off the word count in Scrivener, if that’s possible. 😂 Most people seem to need it as a motivator for what they have accomplished per day. But if you’re a massive overwriter like me, it’s counter-productive. It’s easy for me to pump out 1,000 or 2,000 words on a day that end up leading the story nowhere. Excessive planning of a story is probably just the natural response to a past experience of having tried pantsing and derailing the story completely.
And in 2024, the best argument against pantsing being a viable technique for complex fantasy stories is G.R.R. Martin himself. 😇
I fall into the Planning Paradox every time I start a story. I set out to plan out every detail of the story, then end up losing interest in it once I finish the outline. I'm going to try the Scene Map method, because I really need to change something before I drive myself insane. Great video!
Thank you for the feedback, glad it seemed helpful to you. I know the feeling about planning too much and losing interest by the way. The scene map approach did help for me because it left room for discovery while providing enough substantial guidance. I'm not a pantser/discovery writer so I do like to have some structure in advance. Just gotta find the right balance 🙂
I started with the planning (paradox) as my interest was just to make a world with its history, races, cultures, languages, cities, alphabets, gods, goddesses, etc. Then I made an outline for a story inside the world and I have written a bit* of the first draft.
* other things dictated my time and energy for a while, but now I'm back at it.
Great to hear you are back at it - best of luck with getting to the finish line 🙂
Right after watching this video I realized I was falling the research trap as I was researching tons of stuff on herbalism, alchemy, medieval warfare, armor, weapons, armies, logistics, siege warfare, okay you get the idea. In addition to coming up with new ideas and even the world building maze. This helps me a lot too!
Glad to hear the video helps - I call it a success if just one person is able to avoid some of these pitfalls sooner - or even at all :-)
Yeah I was trying to find out what sort of herbs were used for medieval battlefield medicines and what sort of crystals were said to have healing properties by medieval alchemists. Alchemy and herbalism are big in my setting (I have you to thank for the herbalism from your how to do a female character video!). I also wanted to be realistic as one can be in a magical world with medieval military logistics and warfare. I was jumping back and forth between my research, my world building notes, and my story. So your tips and advice have helped a lot! Hopefully, one day, you’ll do a Discord channel!
0:37 I feel personally attacked 😂😂😂
Don't worry, many of us have been there :-)
@TheTaleTinkerer ...and many times, perhaps 😂😂
I'm not a writer, but I've always liked The lord of the rings, zelda, fable, and I started a story in my head that I've been trying to write at some point but I haven't started and this just gave me the courage to just tell the story, without needing to worry about any barrier, that'll come with revisions.
Such a comment means a lot, really, so thank you. As I continue repeating in many instances, I just want to help people tell their stories, no matter what they want to do that for 🙂
Regarding TBD, it does sometimes matter to do (relatively) in-depth research ahead of time, because it will change the outcome you want for the story.
Easier to explain with an example: I have a character who gets a punctured lung, but survives thanks to medical intervention, but it's a close call and builds tension. How said character gets injured, how far from proper medical treatment, who's on hand to render what assistance, all have an effect on whether the character makes it. And a major character living or dying obviously impacts the story a lot.
But I did make the mistake of researching in too much depth. You just need to know enough about the scenario to ensure that the outcome you desire is plausible, and then you can fill in the gaps later.
Great video!
Glad to hear that, thank you 🙂
I got stuck on my book and believed I’d never complete it. I was researching spacecraft, air pressure, and how the atmosphere of different planets would affect the ship. I wholly believed that because I couldn’t figure this stuff out, my readers would be disappointed in its believability.
Eventually I decided to stop researching and just write and it was the best decision I made in my book and probably one of my flagship chapters.
Sounds great that you managed to pull yourself out of it and get something tangible on the page as a result 🙂
@TheTaleTinkerer yeah, it’s one of the few traits I have (aside from creativity) that make me think I could pull it off as a writer. My new hang up is that a friend told me “Everyone has one good book in them.” It was meant to be encouraging but now I’m wondering if this is my one good book.
Like always, the answer is to shut up and write. 😝
Relevant and Supportive Comment to feed the Algorangim
I make mine 30 books long and still ongoing and I'm trying to get to an end so I can foreshadow things, but I just keep getting ideas... And now it's so long I get frustrated...
You're planning a 30 books long series? Did I get that right? That would certainly be a huge task even for the most experienced writers in the world. Maybe the scope is just too much to tackle at once? 🙂
Ouch, why would you hurt me like this. 😭
My house is full of half written stories, and notebook after notebook of random scenes. Sometimes when I reread them I like them. Other time's I think, "What was wrong with me that day?"😂
Definitely pick something from the first batch to write then 🙂
Oof, a lot of these feel painfully relevant. I have rewritten my first chapters numerous times, been distracted by new projects, and spent too much time world building and researching. Not to mention generally worrying that the basic idea is too derivative, oh and getting stuck on a sentence for days due to not being happy with the wording. Is that a clean sweep?
Welcome to the club - I've been there. Being aware of it is a great first step to overcoming it though - at least it was for me 🙂
The new idea syndrome. I currently have five stories I am working on, ugh.
If you're already working on one of them and it actually sounds and feels interesting, try finishing that one after writing down whatever key details you already have for the other ideas. Then revisit them later 🙂
The story of my life 😅
A new day is always a chance to do things differently 🙂
George R.R Martin is THE MASTER of course😅😂🙃
If you think about ending the series, yeah probably. But he did prove more than once though that he can actually finish things - and at high quality on top of it 🙂