Will This Chimney Collapse?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
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Roger helps Jeff figure out the best approach to making his chimney safe.
Jeff's message:
What, if anything, do I need to do about this?
Doing up what was the in-law's house to sell it. The chimney breast was removed from the ground-floor kitchen and 1st-floor bedroom around 50+ yrs ago. My wife and older sister lived there from birth, and neither can remember the original airing cupboard being there.
So, I need to do ‘something’ cos the pointing is shot, and light is getting in halfway up the exposed stack above the roofline, not to mention rain when it’s windy. Hence the damage to the plasterboard.
Do I point the brickwork, cap the pot and re-board the ceiling?
Can I lay a 3m 2”x6” across the larger joists and frame fixings into the breast brickwork, then remove the lower course or two so nothing is just ‘hanging there’?
Or are the options 1) metalwork to support or 2) take it all down and make good the roof?
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Back in early 2000s, my dad was doing a refurbishment and decided to take the chimney Brest out of his bedroom.
As he was sledge hammering away at the bricks, we heard and almighty crash. We looked out and the chimney had fallen on the drive.
Thank god it did fall the other way on top of us and thank god god even more that it did not damage or hurt the neighbours.
I tell everybody now because people don’t realise the dangers.
It’s great! My shed has been completed and it turned out nice looking and sturdy and it is way better than the sheds that many of my neighbors had put up. Of course, I'm pleased with the outcome and this Ryan’s th-cam.com/users/postUgkxGZedDTcDfgD7fG_uU4esfx_EgxzlY2_1 Plans was extremely useful to me as a guide.
I had this exact same problem Roger. I however supported mine properly but when I came to sell it turned into a nightmare as I didn’t have building control see it. In order to get the sale through and to keep my buyer happy I got a scaffold and took it down myself. Cost me about £600 but saved me so much grief.
Excellent vid mate I’m sure that will help loads of people.
The Great Sheffield Gale of 1962. My old man was a builder and he knew our chimney stack was a bit dodgy so he and my mother got up and moved the bed in the middle of the night. Half an hour later it came through the roof where the bed had been. I slept through it all, lol.
When taking it down, might it be useful to consider salvaging as many of the bricks that are still good, so you’ve a perfect match for your walls if you ever need to patch somewhere? You might get the builder to ‘dry fix’ your ridge whilst up there to save future problems with lost tiles. I had a small but tall boiler chimney taken down recently. It was redundant as the old boiler had been replaced and it made way for extra PV panels. A straight forward job for the roofer and I’ve a nice stack of cleaned off bricks. We patched the roof with matching tiles from a small roof over our old utility that was coming down to make way for an extension. I kept the rest of those tiles as spares for breakages in the future as well. A corner of the garden will look like a builder’s yard once we’re finished.😂
There an LBC and still available, common on ex council estates. Not worth cluttering up the garden, 👍
The bricks are poisonous and thermal stressed - suitable rubble but never re use
I’ve been to a number of jobs where chimney breasts have been taken out leaving stacks unsupported. The most recent an apparently seasoned developer who had taken three of them out. In all cases I’ve been to make site visits regarding unrelated structural alterations and have noticed these issues whilst on site. They’re all crazy.
Good video with sound advice. Only comment is that this is not a chimney breast but is a chimney stack - in the old days it would exhaust smoke directly to the outside often with no lining on the inside. Later they would parge the interior with plaster, nowadays a separate pipe called a flue liner is used all inside a brick chimney flue or stack. A chimney breast is what you would see at room level and is usually much bigger (decorative) than the stack above.
Done a few jobs in Liverpool where some cowboys just remove the inside stack and lucky me had to go to the neighbours house and make the roof and attick good where the chimney had fallen into their roof. Gotta love coboy builders
Very very lucky there's not been a collapse there looks like it's just a good strong mortor mix that's holding it together totally agree get it down through the roof felt Battons tiles sorted.
Often you can't remove the chimney above the roof because it is a component of the 'streetscene'. Make sure you are not in a sensitive area or you could get an Enforcement Officer knocking on the door!
We had the same for 30 years (probably longer depending on when the previous owner had the lower part removed) and only when we got the loft done we realised that the chimney was unsupported. Anyhow now we have steels running under them.
To be honest in this instance it feels like most of it is lighter density blockwork its a small flue, and being at the end of perpendicular joists, it could be taken back up slightly and supported off joists, with a spreader under it, and maybe double up the trimming joists. Being at the end of the span won't add much to bending or deflection (but will add to shear). A structural engineer could come up with a solution that needn't cost too much and could retain the external character given by the chimney. It's not typically preferred to support masonry on timber, but it is better than supporting it on thin air and hope. But obviously it currently stands, so the corbel theory does hold true. (So a design could potentially allow for only a proportion of the load on the timber, but not sure that'd pass building control if they got involved)
I found one of these when doing a loft conversion. They specified a couple of gallows brackets. Had to get them made. Bolted to wall with studs and chemical anchor.
Prob is if a fire happens in the house, the chemical anchors aren’t good for too long.
Could always plasterboard around them / add fire protection for a bit more protection.
But likelihood of fire is low admittedly
@@messageobliquespe100 if your house is on fire i think the chemical anchors are the last of your worries
@@eddjordan2399can’t disagree but you have to provide a level of fire protection to items like this so it remains stable.
Surveyors / Engineers / builders have to go in to assess / repair the damage after - always tricky when you see fire damaged chimney stacks exposed with some thin blackened gallows brackets underneath.
Best to check with building inspector / building codes if they’re accepted or not.
Removing the strongest part of a house? MADNESS
wow. My neighbour's luxury home has a lovely stone clad chimney but when you look thru the big front window the chimney has just a big empty room below it. Not even supported by a legacy portion on one side. Must weight tons! Would take huge steel beams to support it. Funny, the owner is professor of mechanical engineering at the local university.
is it leaning? if not then its supported.
good video roger ! looks like it could colapse at any moment !
No body sneeze !!!
Reading through the comments someone said about their eighties house and I've just remembered working on some posh timber framed houses in ascot as I remember we assembled the fire back first about 4 peices stuck together with fire adhesive then the top slab went on the subbie used some stapps to hold it together until it dried but we carried on with the inner and outer flues up through the first floor and through the ceiling when a slab was bedded on allowing us to take it through the roof in bricks
Afterwards a brick fire place was built in front up to mantle peice height and the rest was studwork as the weight was on the outer flue and the fire place at the bottom I hope the flue liners last and are not getting damaged from say burning wet logs
If it's open like it looks, imagine the heat escaping up and out of it.
My 1980s build house has something I truly hate up in the loft which I'm pretty certain was original, just want to get rid of it but am assuming it passed regs and will cost.
Imagine the large stack out the roof being balanced on a small stack down to ground on one corner, the RSJ is the opposite two corners and one corner is just floating, it's all on a concrete slab supported on 3 corners.
Must have been done to save space and fortunately we don't get earthquakes here, but that thing could topple so easily. Have checked the RSJ for bending but it seems fine.
Put a few acrow props under it and box them in.... yeeeeeehaw
If it’s tied in to the wall like ours, best to Corbel bottom section and leave well alone. Otherwise you’re breaking headers all the way up. Top needs repointing though, ended up rebuilding ours as it was so live.
Bloody hell - that's terrifying.
Hi Roger, many years ago I was minded to explain such things as the conditions allowed by the force of habit, a natural force that keeps things where they are without any visible means of support!.
I am also e-reminded of something that I was told about thirty years ago where a surveyor was prosecuted for negligence because a chimney like the one you show that was hidden in the ceiling collapsed onto the bed below!, luckily the new owners was downstairs at the time!.
We have one in our bathroom above the kitchen, the upper stack was removed when the house was re-roofed some time before we got here but all the brickwork in the kitchen was removed, in fact a small window with a rather feeble small RSJ was let into the wall.
I did not lift the floor a=or open the ceiling when we refurbed the place thirty years ago but I have no reason to believe the old stack has any gallows brackets and still think I should deal with it!, one idea that I really like is to open up the ceiling below and install supports as well as install an effective ventilation system using that flue to take the kitchen fumes up into that old stack and out through air bricks on the outside wall!, the only problem is that this is not overnight job and we would not be able to use the kitchen the while!. The proverbial conflict of interest between builders and residents!, bad enough when dealing with clients but when I am the client what am I supposed to do!.
Cheers, Richard.
Good advice Roger.
Ive seen a vertical channel in a bathroom wall I said what is that? Turn out it was half a flue where rhe chimney had been removed
I have heard lately the new regulations have changed, gallow brakes are no longer expected it's that true, they are saying you now need full new matal bean through the house?
Couldn't agree more!
Gallows bracket definately not appropriate on a gable or a chimney flue that runs straight up.
1:39 This makes me think of cantilevered concrete balconies.
Bang on! Take it down. Job done.
Taking the exterior stack and the section in the loft space down, and making good in one day?!
If you get rid of the bit you can see outside the house, wont there be the rest inside the house still there?
You take it all down . The bit in the loft too, right to ceiling level.
Good advice yet again! Are there many rules to just taking it down? Do you need to get permission off building control?
It's a structural alteration, so yes, B. Control need to be notified.
Let’s do 90% of the job, and leave the easy yet dangerous bit hanging for 50 years 😂
Get up there with a bolster and get that down
I wonder if there's any asbestos lurking in the roof.
A big farma company knowingly sold a product containing 'that' product for thirty years in, wait for it....Baby powder!
I love chimneys
My too! I would build the chimney back in!
If you have one that’s blocked up and unusable then it’s just taking up space in a room and useless. Ours is pissing me off and I don’t know how to get rid of it
@@Alexander_l322 lol
@@Lili-xq9sn it’s not funny. The chimney breast mocks me
@@Alexander_l322 I'm so sorry....I wasn't laughing at you, but that it's a cursed chimney.
If you closely the camera was not perfectly horizontal when this picture was taken which is given the allusion the whole house is tilting.
Ive actually seen a whole stack took down starting from the bottom 😂😂the whole stack came crashing down and the poor people had to move out,i was working a few doors down when it happened
I'll have random guess. Soft slate, a bit of angle iron rotten trimmers and ....DAMP
🤔how about planning permit? or is that under permitted development?
No Planning required but a basic understanding of the laws of physics /gravity is !
Though if it’s a listed building …. Arrrghhh
@@ian_s7481 You don't need party wall agreement if its detached or if the stack/chimney is not connected into a neighbouring property....
Only a days work?…Judging by most builders ‘days work’ that’ll be two Grand then…oh and Scaffolding hire (sucks through teeth) say another 400 Quid then. Plus of course skip hire at 300 more. I think Three Grand should cover it Gov!
Funny, I was looking at chimney breast support details only today. As I'm doing a loft conversion I thought I might as well sort out the not properly supported redundant front half and as I'm gonna put steels in, and I want something g robust and in my case non disruptive to ceiling below, I'm gonna put a couple PFC steel channels under spanning from party wall onto a new beam, which should be easiest and more robust than gallows brackets. This kind of thing really does require structural engineering advice. It annoys me the shit people do structurally, like the guy who removed that chimney with no support. Utter moron. Shame it didn't kill him tbh, because he's probably put countless lives in danger before and after this example. Masonry is chuffing heavy!!
But what about very long part that is inside the roof.Surely cannot leave it hanging above your bed.And our day job transforms into dead certain two days
A rotohammer would make quick work of it.
Some tradies live by the ‘slip slop slap’ mentality! 😬 not ideal.
Agree with you Roger, take it down and if you want maintain the aesthetics of the house fit a fibreglass one instead.
One name springs to mind……. Fred Dibnah May he rest in peace.
Mould?
A house?!
I thought it was a heat pump under it
Had two chimney breasts removed on my semi could not take my chimney down next door nabour did not want his chimney taken down my side of the stack is supported by three gallow brackets the chimney is over 120 years old and is leaking into loft space don’t know what’s the best way to fix this
Get the lead flashing repaired or replaced around the stack.
Had new flashing still leaking not so bad I think it is the bricks that are failing I have put a coating of waterproofing over the chimney and covered the gallows brackets with insulation to stop condensation
Best advise Roger why the person who removed the chimney breast in the first place didn't go the whole hog defies belief obviously a cowboy builder.
Often a cowboy client as well though, some folks just don't seem to care...
I guess what was under it. I seid a house 🏠
👍👍👍..
What are those bricks called? My house is made from them and I need some more.
LBC rustic antique
Known colloquially as wire faced commons
Don't ask Roger, he can't tell stones from bricks 😂
Don’t you require planning permission to remove a chimney as it changes the street scene?
🤦♂
Take it down,
but the advice is good, if you've already had some fool in to remove the 'breast'
See this loads of times. It's about cost of what the customer wanted at the time. Apparently all chimney stacks lean south
Depends where you are James, they are supposed to lean towards the prevailing wind and weather as the joints erode more on that side. But to be honest I've seen them lean every which way, even on the same street, but most common is in towards the house (assuming it's on a gable).
Don't you just love DIY ers
Ha, probably a dodgy builder
Depends. I do my own work because I know it will be done properly. Just because someone does it for a living doesn't mean they know what they're doing.
@@BM-jy6cb your quite right, all the time at college and experience on hundreds of sites nation wide counts for nothing when you have you tube. I'm sure you're level of craftsman ship is well beyond anything a time served carpenter, brickie etc could achieve. I don't know why the government doesn't allow everyone to build their own house.🤣
@@jimcy1319 Skilled people who take pride in their work are few and far between and if you're one of those few, you have my respect . For plastering, I've found a "Robin Clevett", but people like that are like gold dust with long order books. I'm no cheapskate and willing to pay for the right person but I've had my fair share of cowboys over the years. And yes, I can do better than them. I don't care where they went to college or how long they were a plumber's mate.
Take it down its cheaper
1st
Weirdo.
Get some help. 🙃
@@pigswillbepigs why? u wanna lend me some moneyz?
Who takes there chimney out ! Use that to make fire and stay warm.
When we bought our house 24 years ago, we took out our chimney breasts. Going by the increasing cost of gas and electricity prices, and the weakness of heat pumps, I wish we had kept our old chimneys, to give the option of going back to the old wood fires! - If the Govt and Local Authority will allow us to burn wood?! I heard they want to stop wood burning fires in new builds! Aren't they taking the CO2 emissions a bit too far? The trees and plants need to breathe in CO2 and they breathe out O2 in return for us.
If the surveyor is anything like the one I had, he'll tell you about all the things he DIDN'T inspect and the things that he did look at were frankly "stating the bleedin' obvious!" Board over it. If it's been that way for 50 years it'll be that way for the next 50 years!
Exactly-I did a master's in building surveying and most of it was about passing risk onto others by stating 'couldn't be accessed; seek specialist advice' etc. Better off doing your own research and evidence-gathering.
Yesterdays luck isn't a Guarantee of tomorrow's luck. Adverse weather over decades will weaken that structure, and it'll eventually come down of its own accord.
@@tonyevans1354 that applies to the whole house!
@@alexp1054 Buying my first house I thought a full structural survey was a good idea but like you say, it was full of disclaimers to the extent where I'd question the point of at least half of what they put in. It also mentioned something about "evidence of historic movement" which is a) unsurprising in a 200yr old house and b) immediately excluded me from a whole load of buildings insurers 🙁
@@mrrobincm Right-sometimes think it's just a racket with all these 'specialists' all recommending work for one another, homeowner paying their princely sums and no work actually getting done. Meanwhile an experienced builder plus your own research is far less and more useful IMHO.
Couple of sky hooks will solve this one 👌🏼🤣.
Seriously that is reckless behaviour. Get rid ASAP ! 🧱👍🏽