quite a few "normal" american v8s can get away with that also a lot of them have little "dishes" in the pistons that prevent bending the valve if the timing chain/belt snaps or skips a few teeth
personally i'd go with pushrods maybe a hemi style head setup for better flow? differently NOT a reverse flow head tho would HAVE to be a kind of cross flow head of some kind, mayby borrow architechture from a 454 big block for the valve set up?
I can tell from experience the Packard 8 is a beauty of a motor. The 356 is effortlessly torquey. My dad owns a 1949 custom 8 so ive had first hand experience!
The lack of a modern V8 until 1955 is often cited as the reason for Packard's failure but those straight 8s through 1953 or so were quite competitive with more horsepower and smoother running than such as Oldsmobile's new V8 although the new tech Olds engine was probably not much more than half as heavy (and cheaper to build) than the Packard engine I think the cause for Packard's failure must be looked for elsewhere such as having a GM man inside the Eisenhower administration in a position to cancel Packard's military contracts ,also Packard's terrible automatic transmission problems. (If I were a wealthy car collector/restorer I would want a Packard with the manual transmission and overdrive)
My brother had a 48 Packard Convertible , it was a lovely car , had surprising pick up , at least up to 50 mph , and with overdrive it was a smooth , fast cruiser .
its all in the torque curve. flatheads come on nice and smooth. i'll go out on a limb and say electric is all that could be smoother. might be a bit of and exaggeration, but the feel is similar. I like my patrician.
Fun fact! The design of the flat twin engine in the citroën 2CV was actually based on BMW's flat twin engine design. They even sound similar. So much so that swapping the asthmatic 2CV engine for an actual (and more powerful) BMW engine is supposedly quite easy.
A Moto Guzzi V twin would be good swap material for a micro car. The trans. plugs into the back of the engine and is the most automotive like engineering applied to any motorcycle I can think of.
here is what wiki has to say about the 90 series Series 90[edit] The second generation of V16 used an unusually wide vee-angle of 135°, giving a wide but much lower engine to suit the styling tastes of the late 1930s. The two carburetors, one on each bank, and air cleaners were mounted on top of the engine block in this design. These engines had 'square' proportions; bore and stroke were both 3 1⁄4 in (82.6 mm), giving an overall displacement of 431 cubic inches (7.1 L). Cadillac rated these engines at the same 185 bhp (138 kW) as the previous series. These engines were known as the Series 90, as were the cars that used them. The Series 90 V16 was produced from 1938 through 1940. This engine was used in the 1938-1940 Series 90. The 431-cubic-inch displacement 1938-40 Cadillac V16 was one of the last new American auto engine designs prior to World War Two. As such, it incorporated some of the latest thinking. Nine main bearings provided a crankshaft main bearing support between each 135 degree opposing pair of cylinders. The square bore and stroke lowered piston speed and promoted crankshaft rigidity, no small matter for an engine with eight cylinders in line per cylinder bank. The side valve engine design was no handicap for the time because the era's typical top engine speed of 3400-3700 rpm provided little opportunity to exploit the high speed breathing efficiency of overhead valves. Luxury car drivers presumably valued smoothness and silence more than high speed power. Hydraulic valve lifters promoted silent running and an absence of periodic adjustment. Unlike most cars of the era, an external oil filter safeguarded the precision valve lifters. Despite the use of side valves, the engine produced as much power as the prior 45 degree V16, and with much less complexity. The earliest engines produced featured an innovative friction wheel drive to the generator. This was soon replaced by a conventional V belt drive. Cadillac claimed that the 1938, 1939, and 1940 Series 90 Sixteen had the best performance of any production car in the world at the time and would accelerate 10-60 in high gear only in 16 seconds. The definitive engineering report on the 135 degree Cadillac V16 engine is "The Evolution of the Cadillac Sixteen engine," by E.W. Seaholm, in charge of Cadillac engine design. It was published by the industry journal "Automotive Industries," November 27, 1937.
1: Wikipedia requires info in articles to be sourced, which you can check on the bottom of an article 2: Wikipedia articles are in the free domain and creative commons applies to everything there. If you want to not read a wall of text, dont read it.
Oh and you both completely missed the point of my reply. Don't copy wiki articles here, we can read ourselves. I don't have anything against wiki. I have a problem in which he used the site. P.S. and don't half ass try and tell me "have a good day" as if you are something better than you truly are. If you want to tell me to fuck myself, do it coward.
Torque of a NA engine is largely dependent on engine displacement, but also om compression ratio. The higher the compression ratio, the more fuel you can burn in a given cylinder displacement, the bigger the bang, giving a higher peak combustion pressure. And this higher pressure on the piston surface in effect gives more torque. Power the other hand is determined by the amount of torque in relation to engine speed (rpm's), imagine having an engine with constant torque (which doesn't actually exist), running at 2000 rpm giving 100 hp, in this case doubling the rpm to 4000 with the same amount of torque would double the power to 200 hp. As most of the shown engines are from the pre WW2 era these were developed in a time when octane levels in fuel were pretty low, limiting compression ratio to around 8:1 at best (some engines in the video do 5:1) The lack of torque could be overcome a bit with a long stroke, so most of these old engines were undersquare engines, having a stroke larger than the bore. The flaws of the flathead design, being a poor combustion pattern, combined with lower standard materials and the long stroke limited engine RPM. This all explains why these engines are quite low in performance figures, as modern NA engines are in the 11:1-12:1 region.
today with better fuels etc. we get torque by doing the reverse, piston area has been increased and stroke shortened. most cars only run at around 7.5 or 8.5 to 1 ratio's here in the us, thats why toyota's 3 liter v-6 is affectionatly called the 3 point slow and gets worse mileage than a 350ci v-8! when I look at what is available in other countries it makes me want to pout! light zippy little cars getting 50+ mpg! I would kill for one of those here!!
In the context of their times ( and prevailing gasoline quality ) , you couldn't really say they were low on power , when viewed against the accepted and prevailing power levels of their respective eras .
It'd be a cool brand to see someone revive. Maybe build cars the old fashioned way? Still on an assembly line but with less electronics happening :D. All the money can be spent on other things.
You were correct about the Hudson Hornet destroying any and all competition in races that it was entered. My Grandfather had Ford trucks for work, a 1944 Ford flat-fender Jeep just like the one he had after his being a part of the advancement on Utah Beach Head during the D-Day landing, a Hudson Hornet as his "go fast rig", and a top of the line Packard that he drove whenever he and my Grandmother went anywhere, he loved those cars....
My father was an Engineer , and a gearhead . He was of the " drive a car forever " school, so he had comparitively short list of cars over a long time span , but most of them were impressive for their respective era . 1941 Dual Carb Straight 8 Buick 1951 Rocket Oldsmobile Two different 1957 Chrysler 392 Hemi - a Dual Quad 300C, and a single quad Imperial The anomaly was 1968 Buick 350 , but at least the high compression 4bbl version . And finally , a 1974 440 .
Best flathead engine I ever heard was what started life as a 80 inch Harley Davidon Flathead v-twin that had been bored out, stroked, with higher compression piston. It sounded like a beast when it ran.
There was a company that made commercial air compressors that used only one bank for running the other to compress air. My good friends dad was a collector and had one in his collection.
I've got the original flathead V8 in my 1950 Ford daily driver. It's running repop Red's Headers and Smithy glass packs with dual pencil tips. Sound so good! At idle or thru the gears, I love it!
Mmmm. Flatheads. My next car's gonna have one, probably a Ford flattie. Interestingly, direct injection might offer some mitigation to the economy and emissions issues these engines tend to have. It's piss easy to rig one for direct fuel injection, after all, any shadetree with a tap-and-die set and some harbor freight drill bits could do it.
Studebaker's Champion inline 6 flathead was produced from 1929 to 1960. The main advantage being weight savings compared with L-head or overhead valve engines of similar power output.
I've had two Dodge pickups with the inline 6: a '49 Heavy Duty and a '51. I hauled a 32-foot house trailer from Portland, Oregon to Victoria BC with the '49. Also, a high school buddy of mine had a '48 Dodge coupe with a '51 Chrysler 6. It was bored out, had dual carbs, a split exhaust manifold and a 3/4 race cam. That engine had a real nice ring when he wound it up. Sad to say, the Chrysler 6 was eventually replaced with a small-block Chevy V8.
What amazes me is that a old flathead BMW sounds similar too it's roundheaded brother which have a completely different valve setup. Although this sounds gnarlier 😎 nice find 👍🏻
My family is really into straight 6 mopar flat heads. Put one in a dragster rail car with homemade pipes, sounds pretty wicked and doesn't go too bad either
No, it was because the flathead was simpler and cheaper to build. Production technology had to develop before OHVs, and then OHCs, became economical enough to build.
The main reason for Flatheads generally was simplicity , and resulting price points . So far was the Ford Flatty specifically , add light weight, and compact . With the low octanes requiring 5:1, 6;1, etc compression ratios , the flathead's inherent trade offs of flow vs compression were mostly masked .
You can fine those old Chrysler and Continental flat heads in a lot of old welders and industrial equipment. We had a few growing up. One in a Case tracked loaded, a Hobart welder, and one that was out of a Jeep that dad retrofitted with the transmission to a one yard concrete mixer. I know a couple of them are still running not sure about the one on the mixer though.
heee heeee... I have an old signal corps generator. tiny little 4 cylinder itty bitty little pistons. has about 3.5:1 ratio. it can run on anything that will burn. coleman camp stove fuel, jack daniels whiskey . yes, I did try, yes it did work! baby jesus loves everything about internal combustion.( sorry, had to be a little foolish with that just because)
Do one on turbo flatheads. I don't think any were mass produced, but it seems to me that flatheads should turbocharge well and it has been done custom a few times.
Thanks for that video !!! nice you mention the BELGIAN D-Motor engine builder with the engine named LF-39 6 cylinder 3993 cc flathead 125 HP. ! all very very nice mechanical work !!! if I was very rich I would construct a trike (like the BOOM trikes) with such engine, just for machanical fun !!! ( I would ask the belgian builder of ultra light helicopters DYNALI for the trike frame construction hahaha !!! ) ..... namaste ! One may dream !!! ;-)
I had a Willys Jeep engine that had pushrod operated overhead intake valves and block mounted exhaust valves. It came in a flat fendered Jeep with a hood twice as high as the old Jeeps used. I think the engine was called an ''F'' head Hurricane. The Go Devil was the ''L'' head.
I wonder what some of these engines would be like with modern parts in them like a big lift cam H-beam connecters head gasket and BOOST the crap out of it lol
L-heads were a good choice with the poor fuels of the early decades. It is easy to remove the cylinder head and decarbonize a flathead. The valve train is super efficient - very light and direct acting. The valves do not shroud the cylinders so the valves can be very large. But with the exhaust close to the upper cylinder wall l-heads can be tough on piston rings - motor oil cokes on that side and breaks the rings. The other side of the cylinder is cooler, this warps the head and causes the head gasket to fail. I'd like to see a flathead with the cylinder head cast in place - the pistons inserted from the bottom. That would prevent blown head gaskets and allow a flathead to work better with a supercharger. The valve casting would also have to bolt on from the side of the motor. A headless flathead.
@@timothykeith1367 I think some of the flatheads had lots and lots of cylinder head bolts that could be retorqued several times over the engine's life and most of these had fewer headgasket problems than most modern engines.
There is a new production side valve engine that uses a central small puck on top of the piston center that fits into a recess in the cylinder head. The intake valve is outboard of the exhaust valve so the incoming charge cools the exhaust valve. Look up HCCI at Autoline network for an interview discussing this engine.
Ahhhh that sound which today is disappear completely and imagine one day that could be reproduced again and what s your favourite engine on this List? but as always good video ;-)
Though less powerful and restricted engine breathing, they look like beautiful engines and neater with the valves nicely arranged to flush with the cylinder head cover instead of modern engines with the current huge alien T heads protruding above the combustion chamber due to Plumbing space occupied by Overhead camshaft and its connecting chain and Valve trains
am 88 so i am used to the old engs but we were not power crazy like to day we almost climb a tree with old army trks at about 85 hp and so easy to work on plus ----gasoline was 5 gal one $ that was good ole days my first car was a 36 buick
It leaked out through a what was essentially a sponge with bristles to lubricate the chain. The "leak" from that wasn't even enough to stain your driveway.
At lower RPM, in a longer-stroke engine, the flathead can, in some applications, be more efficient than OHV, and many owners liked them because they were quieter with fewer moving parts in the valvetrain. Suggestion: in your research have you run across any flathead diesels? Dig your channel; I'm subscribed
Great video, learned about a couple of Motors I didn't know about, thank you. However the Harley 45 was not a total loss oil system. If they were they be pouring oil all over the street. The Harley's that had total loss oil systems with the old board track racers from the 20s. The Flathead did have an Oiler for its drive chain which always left a puddle of oil every time you parked the bike. they also kept making that 45 motor past 1969 into the seventies. They use them in the servi-car trikes, that the police used. They also had kind of a neat Flathead sportbike called the Sportster back in the 50s. Fun fact it was Harley's first working rear suspension motorcycle. Thanks again for the great videos please keep them going.
The ford flathead may not have been the first, but it was the first mass affordable V8, and it’s the reason we have the LS today. Affordable V8s made the US have a V8 fettish
With the development of the 5 stroke principle, I think the flat head may make a comeback. The 5 stroke engine has 2 high pressure pistons that operate on the 4 stroke cycle, firing alternatingly. These pistons then exhaust into a 3rd low pressure that extracts more mechanical work off of the expanding gasses. For example, an engine with 7.5:1 compression, could have an overall 15:1 expansion ratio, which would achieve diesel level fuel economy, but run on gas, and be able to carm massive volumes or boost into the engine and still run on 87 octane fuel without knocking. Such low compression lends itself well to both turbocharging, and to the flat head design.
David Blalock - Livin' Life Am not an engineer or even an extreme gear head but the 5 stroke does sound promising. Hope the major manufacturers look into and research this design.
it looks promising on paper. in real life it might not work so well..... impatiently waiting for someone to do more testing, I want either a flying car or one that gets a hundred miles per gallon of fuel. promises were made by the engineering community that were not kept! I for one, protest!
Sugarbike: I split the exhaust manifold on 1948 Pontiac straight so I had a 4 x4 split and it sounded almost like a V8. I built a air collector for the engine fan and had a forced air for the engine intake. It cut my 0 to 60 MPH time by about 3 seconds. My 1953 Pontiac 6 cylinder had the head planned the about .100 and had lots more torque.
if you could count non-car engines... the kholer k series flat head engines are awesome too they range from 5hp to 21 there used in garden tractors mostly in J.I Case tractors like the ones on my channel ( p.s if you (visio racer) want to use some of my vids I give you full permission ) :)
The flatheads were good before electronic rev limiters. Later, you had to watch a tachometer guage to not over-rev and maybe damage the engine. The 1970s Yamaha parallel twin motorcycles with 650cc had a roller bearing crankshaft to minimize damages from over-revving, and also from the very low quality oil filter.
Side valve engines are notorious for heat issues. Since the valves are in the block, the intake and exhaust passages are entirely within the block. That means that hot exhaust gases pass through the water jacket = Difficult cooling. What's more, the side valve engine [just like most Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engines] creates huge exhaust emissions due to the slim area [this is called "squish area, and Wankel engine combustion chamber shape has this issue too] over the valves when the spark fires. The best combustion chamber design is a shallow hemisphere where the charge can congregate in the center. The flat head spreads that over a huge area, and the shape includes a large flat area over the valves. Charge in this area does not burn properly and as a result there is less power and bad exhaust emissions.
At least Cadillac did the FH V-8 right, with the exhaust ports not going all the way through the block to the other side, causing serious overheating problems with the Ford design.
I think the Ford flathead that transmitted a lot of heat to the coolant at least provided very abundant heat for driving in Arctic climates. Probably faster warmup too. But needed a large radiator.
@@davidpowell3347 Late engines employ this. I own a 2001 Subaru Outback and the H6 engine has one exhaust outlet per cylinder head. This is done to heat up the catalytic converter quickly.
Speaking of flat head engines I one a 1971 International Harvester Cub Lo-Boy 154 compact tractor and its a got a little 4 cylinder flat head engine making 15 HP. The most powerful version of that engine made 18 HP. My 15 HP in my tractor makes nice 4 cylinder burble. If I get a chance I want to get a video of it running then you can add it to your video. I would love to be a part of your content you post.
At least there's no worry about the pistons slapping the valves if the timing suddenly desync.
quite a few "normal" american v8s can get away with that also
a lot of them have little "dishes" in the pistons that prevent bending the valve if the timing chain/belt snaps or skips a few teeth
kain hall maybe stock ones. High-compression, performance engines have minimal clearance between piston and valve.
@@LgSutterby Thats just a stupid and false claim
Lane Sutterby even high comp pistons have valve reliefs. Though if you shave the head too much, even valve reliefs won’t save you.
Volvo redblocks are non interference too' lots of engines are
Vodka is made from potatoes.
Potatoes are a vegetable.
Vodka is a salad.
TheDennys21 MIND B L O W N
Pedro Rocha *:D*
GET YOUR OWN FAKING JOKES!
Vodka is a Juice. A fermented, Distilled juice.
ITS ALCOHOL.
Your head is full of salad. Or vodka.....
Old engines have so much character..and sounds that keeps flow of blood trough your veins..don't mention about torque,that's a diff pleasure
The Packard inline 8 sounds awesome! Would be cool to see a modern inline 8 with dohc and a high compression ratio.
Armed Reptile Hell yeah it would be cool
Armed Reptile Mercedes racing Inline-8 sounds savage too
personally i'd go with pushrods
maybe a hemi style head setup for better flow? differently NOT a reverse flow head tho would HAVE to be a kind of cross flow head of some kind, mayby borrow architechture from a 454 big block for the valve set up?
In the '90s Chrysler did the Atlantic concept car with a modern straight 8.
Armed Reptile normally buses will have
Flatheads are beautiful
Sound, design and simplicity all in a glorious V8
stick 8 lawnmowers together with some JB weld, and voila, you have a flathead v8
Gloriously undependable oil burning nightmares in stock form.
the hudson h145 was the 2jz of its time
That's not even turbocharged.
So, about the Willys MB thing
The 4400 rpm for 100 hours would be more impressive if you had mentioned that the Willy´s only goes up to 4500 rpm.
its remarkable even for a modern engine.
if you do that to a modern engine, itll probably just blow up.
Nazimelonhamster lol idk i did 130 all the way to work not quite an hour but like 30 minutes
Tre'von Cowen 100 hours. Not minutes. That is more than 4 days running past design redline.
And they did it in 1941.
I long for the days of old, cars had so much character and engines looked like engines
Nothing sounds better than a flathead!
I have a Willys MB myself, and everytime you start the engine you fall in love with it again. Just such a glorious sound.
All flatheads sound good. Even the I4 does
Im designing an i2 360 ""paralel with high compression and popup cylinders and other modern improovements
0:58 the sound of 65 horses roaring!
I can tell from experience the Packard 8 is a beauty of a motor. The 356 is effortlessly torquey. My dad owns a 1949 custom 8 so ive had first hand experience!
The lack of a modern V8 until 1955 is often cited as the reason for Packard's failure but those straight 8s through 1953 or so were quite competitive with more horsepower and smoother running than such as Oldsmobile's new V8 although the new tech Olds engine was probably not much more than half as heavy (and cheaper to build) than the Packard engine
I think the cause for Packard's failure must be looked for elsewhere such as having a GM man inside the Eisenhower administration in a position to cancel Packard's military contracts ,also Packard's terrible automatic transmission problems. (If I were a wealthy car collector/restorer I would want a Packard with the manual transmission and overdrive)
The Hudson sounds great!
Ever rode in a flathead powered car? Feels really good doesn't it? Also glad you mentioned motorcycles because they're sweet old bikes.
grumpy chuck thegrumpychuckchannel how does it feel different?
You may not ever notice but even in different years, flathead engines run better by being a smooth running engine.
My brother had a 48 Packard Convertible , it was a lovely car , had surprising pick up , at least up to 50 mph , and with overdrive it was a smooth , fast cruiser .
its all in the torque curve. flatheads come on nice and smooth. i'll go out on a limb and say electric is all that could be smoother. might be a bit of and exaggeration, but the feel is similar. I like my patrician.
Fun fact! The design of the flat twin engine in the citroën 2CV was actually based on BMW's flat twin engine design. They even sound similar. So much so that swapping the asthmatic 2CV engine for an actual (and more powerful) BMW engine is supposedly quite easy.
But the 2CV was OHV.
bhudh You mean the BMW motor cycle engine I suppose?
A Moto Guzzi V twin would be good swap material for a micro car. The trans. plugs into the back of the engine and is the most automotive like engineering applied to any motorcycle I can think of.
@@gregorytimmons4777 Used in Triking Morgan replicas and some Classic Minis built in Italy by Innocenti.
Citroen used a BMW twin in their prototype, but the 2CV engine was Citroen's own design and much nicer than contemporary BMW engines.
No better looking engine than a Flathead!
minimalist , very clean
I would love to see a world war 1 or 2 plane compilation
here is what wiki has to say about the 90 series
Series 90[edit]
The second generation of V16 used an unusually wide vee-angle of 135°, giving a wide but much lower engine to suit the styling tastes of the late 1930s. The two carburetors, one on each bank, and air cleaners were mounted on top of the engine block in this design. These engines had 'square' proportions; bore and stroke were both 3 1⁄4 in (82.6 mm), giving an overall displacement of 431 cubic inches (7.1 L). Cadillac rated these engines at the same 185 bhp (138 kW) as the previous series. These engines were known as the Series 90, as were the cars that used them. The Series 90 V16 was produced from 1938 through 1940.
This engine was used in the 1938-1940 Series 90.
The 431-cubic-inch displacement 1938-40 Cadillac V16 was one of the last new American auto engine designs prior to World War Two. As such, it incorporated some of the latest thinking. Nine main bearings provided a crankshaft main bearing support between each 135 degree opposing pair of cylinders. The square bore and stroke lowered piston speed and promoted crankshaft rigidity, no small matter for an engine with eight cylinders in line per cylinder bank. The side valve engine design was no handicap for the time because the era's typical top engine speed of 3400-3700 rpm provided little opportunity to exploit the high speed breathing efficiency of overhead valves. Luxury car drivers presumably valued smoothness and silence more than high speed power. Hydraulic valve lifters promoted silent running and an absence of periodic adjustment. Unlike most cars of the era, an external oil filter safeguarded the precision valve lifters. Despite the use of side valves, the engine produced as much power as the prior 45 degree V16, and with much less complexity. The earliest engines produced featured an innovative friction wheel drive to the generator. This was soon replaced by a conventional V belt drive. Cadillac claimed that the 1938, 1939, and 1940 Series 90 Sixteen had the best performance of any production car in the world at the time and would accelerate 10-60 in high gear only in 16 seconds. The definitive engineering report on the 135 degree Cadillac V16 engine is "The Evolution of the Cadillac Sixteen engine," by E.W. Seaholm, in charge of Cadillac engine design. It was published by the industry journal "Automotive Industries," November 27, 1937.
if you want to copy and paste a wiki article again, just don't.
Not only is the info not reliable, its plagiarizing.
1: Wikipedia requires info in articles to be sourced, which you can check on the bottom of an article
2: Wikipedia articles are in the free domain and creative commons applies to everything there.
If you want to not read a wall of text, dont read it.
Meusana Waa, waa, waa.
You Sir are a big crybaby.
Have a good day.
Oh and you both completely missed the point of my reply. Don't copy wiki articles here, we can read ourselves. I don't have anything against wiki. I have a problem in which he used the site.
P.S. and don't half ass try and tell me "have a good day" as if you are something better than you truly are. If you want to tell me to fuck myself, do it coward.
They all sound like Tractor engines! Love the history lesson thought!
You misses the Lincoln Zephy's V-12.
Anything in a V-12 config is going to run smooth and probably sound great.
that hudson engine sounds like the 1jz of the 50s
The Go Devil engine is so smooth... beautiful powerplant.
"With engine layout of straight-4, 6 and 8, Chrysler's flat-heads have a very LONG history." I see what you did there!
This is just a great video. Thanks. How could you not enjoy a video that starts with a cherry-bombed flathead?
3,600 cc making 65hp?! U cereal?!?
*20 seconds later*
Oh... I hear
Pedro Rocha american v8 what do u expect?
Andrej Kostovski American v8s can make tons of power, just not naturally aspirated flatheads...
6:21 sounds gurgly
Andrej Kostovski you right, NA murican' v8's are big in size, but not in powah
2bit MarketAnarchist yes they can but most of them dont.. they are jut big thirsty v8s
Polished up air-cooled flatheads have that *aesthetic* .
Torque of a NA engine is largely dependent on engine displacement, but also om compression ratio.
The higher the compression ratio, the more fuel you can burn in a given cylinder displacement, the bigger the bang, giving a higher peak combustion pressure.
And this higher pressure on the piston surface in effect gives more torque.
Power the other hand is determined by the amount of torque in relation to engine speed (rpm's), imagine having an engine with constant torque (which doesn't actually exist), running at 2000 rpm giving 100 hp, in this case doubling the rpm to 4000 with the same amount of torque would double the power to 200 hp.
As most of the shown engines are from the pre WW2 era these were developed in a time when octane levels in fuel were pretty low, limiting compression ratio to around 8:1 at best (some engines in the video do 5:1)
The lack of torque could be overcome a bit with a long stroke, so most of these old engines were undersquare engines, having a stroke larger than the bore.
The flaws of the flathead design, being a poor combustion pattern, combined with lower standard materials and the long stroke limited engine RPM.
This all explains why these engines are quite low in performance figures, as modern NA engines are in the 11:1-12:1 region.
Thank you
Well said!
today with better fuels etc. we get torque by doing the reverse, piston area has been increased and stroke shortened. most cars only run at around 7.5 or 8.5 to 1 ratio's here in the us, thats why toyota's 3 liter v-6 is affectionatly called the 3 point slow and gets worse mileage than a 350ci v-8!
when I look at what is available in other countries it makes me want to pout! light zippy little cars getting 50+ mpg! I would kill for one of those here!!
Expansion ratio then
In the context of their times ( and prevailing gasoline quality ) , you couldn't really say they were low on power , when viewed against the accepted and prevailing power levels of their respective eras .
1:36 'It’s-a Me, Mario!' :D
Instead of fixing water pipes, he fixes engines
I wish Packard still existed, they had some nice cars.
It'd be a cool brand to see someone revive. Maybe build cars the old fashioned way? Still on an assembly line but with less electronics happening :D. All the money can be spent on other things.
If they'd even got to produce the "Black Bess" I'd be happy.
and dont forget that flat-heads also sound amazing
Thank you for running this channel.
You were correct about the Hudson Hornet destroying any and all competition in races that it was entered. My Grandfather had Ford trucks for work, a 1944 Ford flat-fender Jeep just like the one he had after his being a part of the advancement on Utah Beach Head during the D-Day landing, a Hudson Hornet as his "go fast rig", and a top of the line Packard that he drove whenever he and my Grandmother went anywhere, he loved those cars....
What a cool ensemble to choose from.
My father was an Engineer , and a gearhead . He was of the " drive a car forever " school, so he had comparitively short list of cars over a long time span , but most of them were impressive for their respective era .
1941 Dual Carb Straight 8 Buick
1951 Rocket Oldsmobile
Two different 1957 Chrysler 392 Hemi - a Dual Quad 300C, and a single quad Imperial
The anomaly was 1968 Buick 350 , but at least the high compression 4bbl version .
And finally , a 1974 440 .
The 1949 and 1950 Oldsmobile guys say No! They were very close runners on street or track.
I pulled a 53 pontiac straight 8 flathead with hydromatic and took it to the metal yard. it weighed over 1100 lbs.
Best flathead engine I ever heard was what started life as a 80 inch Harley Davidon Flathead v-twin that had been bored out, stroked, with higher compression piston. It sounded like a beast when it ran.
There was a company that made commercial air compressors that used only one bank for running the other to compress air. My good friends dad was a collector and had one in his collection.
The Packard L8 actually was made upto 6.3L. That’s the engine that my dad’s 1930 Packard has.
Correct. And as you can well imagine, the engine was very popular as a portable air compressor to run pneumatic tools, etc.
I've got the original flathead V8 in my 1950 Ford daily driver. It's running repop Red's Headers and Smithy glass packs with dual pencil tips. Sound so good! At idle or thru the gears, I love it!
Mmmm. Flatheads. My next car's gonna have one, probably a Ford flattie.
Interestingly, direct injection might offer some mitigation to the economy and emissions issues these engines tend to have. It's piss easy to rig one for direct fuel injection, after all, any shadetree with a tap-and-die set and some harbor freight drill bits could do it.
a flathead with direct injection... kind of ironic!
0:57 this sound is on godly levels!
Studebaker's Champion inline 6 flathead was produced from 1929 to 1960. The main advantage being weight savings compared with L-head or overhead valve engines of similar power output.
I've had two Dodge pickups with the inline 6: a '49 Heavy Duty and a '51. I hauled a 32-foot house trailer from Portland, Oregon to Victoria BC with the '49. Also, a high school buddy of mine had a '48 Dodge coupe with a '51 Chrysler 6. It was bored out, had dual carbs, a split exhaust manifold and a 3/4 race cam. That engine had a real nice ring when he wound it up. Sad to say, the Chrysler 6 was eventually replaced with a small-block Chevy V8.
That inline 8 sounded incredible!
WOW, This was fascinating. I do not know how you do it, but your work, as usual, is always great. Thanks once again
What amazes me is that a old flathead BMW sounds similar too it's roundheaded brother which have a completely different valve setup.
Although this sounds gnarlier 😎 nice find 👍🏻
that packard straight 8 has gotta eb one of the best sounding engines of all mechanical time
Also up to about 160 horsepower which was about as much as anything in its day without a supercharger
I think at only 3600 RPM
My family is really into straight 6 mopar flat heads. Put one in a dragster rail car with homemade pipes, sounds pretty wicked and doesn't go too bad either
George Asche of Venus PA ?
I had a Go Devil back when i had a CJ2-a Jeep, I damn loved that car
Not much of a bike guy but that Harley is beatiful!
The main reason for flat head design is to avoid knoking due to the poor quality fuel back then.
No, it was because the flathead was simpler and cheaper to build. Production technology had to develop before OHVs, and then OHCs, became economical enough to build.
The main reason for Flatheads generally was simplicity , and resulting price points . So far was the Ford Flatty specifically , add light weight, and compact .
With the low octanes requiring 5:1, 6;1, etc compression ratios , the flathead's inherent trade offs of flow vs compression were mostly masked .
You can fine those old Chrysler and Continental flat heads in a lot of old welders and industrial equipment. We had a few growing up. One in a Case tracked loaded, a Hobart welder, and one that was out of a Jeep that dad retrofitted with the transmission to a one yard concrete mixer. I know a couple of them are still running not sure about the one on the mixer though.
Check out the Chrysler multi-bank engine that saw use in the Sherman tank. It’s 5 of the Chrysler flathead 6 engines in a circular configuration.
i dont really care if they are slow and weak engines i love Flathead engines more than any overhead valve
It's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast!
Happy little tractors
Great list, but one that should be mentioned is the 1935-1936 Auburn Supercharged straight eight. Keep up the good work!
No love here for the Briggs & Stratton opposed twin?? Sounds amazing :D
Actually, the go devil engine in my 1946 Willys Jeep is extremely fuel efficient. Especially for it's time. It really makes a tank last long.
These compression ratios make baby Jesus cry
heee heeee... I have an old signal corps generator. tiny little 4 cylinder itty bitty little pistons. has about 3.5:1 ratio. it can run on anything that will burn. coleman camp stove fuel, jack daniels whiskey . yes, I did try, yes it did work!
baby jesus loves everything about internal combustion.( sorry, had to be a little foolish with that just because)
Kj16V Back then, 70 octane gas was not uncommon.
So no one is gonna ask how that Ford one is running with the head off??
Dad. The other set of cylinders had the head on still, it was running on 4 cylinders. They simply pulled the head off the opposite bank
Dad. Two banks of cylinders one head removed.
Because that design literally works like two four cylinders, water pump per each side.
literally thought of the same thing, then realized there was another bank a few seconds later.
This makes it look like a car enthusiast talking to his not so enthusiast father lol
Love how the youtube algorithm is aware I'm a total gearhead and keep showing me every car and bike ad. Little do they know I only go for vitages.
1953: 3.6L 65hp V8? cool collection of clips, never seen a running open piston and valves before.
You also neglected to mention that several US tanks during WWII used two Cadillac L-head V8s, such as the M24 Chaffee and the M5 Stuart.
Honda Civic: "I totally just smoked a V8 in a race"
The V8:
Do one on turbo flatheads. I don't think any were mass produced, but it seems to me that flatheads should turbocharge well and it has been done custom a few times.
What no flathead Lincoln v12?
Thanks for that video !!! nice you mention the BELGIAN D-Motor engine builder with the engine named LF-39 6 cylinder 3993 cc flathead 125 HP. ! all very very nice mechanical work !!! if I was very rich I would construct a trike (like the BOOM trikes) with such engine, just for machanical fun !!! ( I would ask the belgian builder of ultra light helicopters DYNALI for the trike frame construction hahaha !!! ) ..... namaste ! One may dream !!! ;-)
1:10 Huh 1:25. Ohh yeah a world where ECM didn't even exist!
I had a Willys Jeep engine that had pushrod operated overhead intake valves and block mounted exhaust valves. It came in a flat fendered Jeep with a hood twice as high as the old Jeeps used. I think the engine was called an ''F'' head Hurricane. The Go Devil was the ''L'' head.
I wonder what some of these engines would be like with modern parts in them like a big lift cam H-beam connecters head gasket and BOOST the crap out of it lol
L-heads were a good choice with the poor fuels of the early decades. It is easy to remove the cylinder head and decarbonize a flathead. The valve train is super efficient - very light and direct acting. The valves do not shroud the cylinders so the valves can be very large. But with the exhaust close to the upper cylinder wall l-heads can be tough on piston rings - motor oil cokes on that side and breaks the rings. The other side of the cylinder is cooler, this warps the head and causes the head gasket to fail. I'd like to see a flathead with the cylinder head cast in place - the pistons inserted from the bottom. That would prevent blown head gaskets and allow a flathead to work better with a supercharger. The valve casting would also have to bolt on from the side of the motor. A headless flathead.
They would still be turkeys.
Timothy Keith rad
Some actual flatheads did have turbo and super chargers
@@timothykeith1367 I think some of the flatheads had lots and lots of cylinder head bolts that could be retorqued several times over the engine's life and most of these had fewer headgasket problems than most modern engines.
There is a new production side valve engine that uses a central small puck on top of the piston center that fits into a recess in the cylinder head. The intake valve is outboard of the exhaust valve so the incoming charge cools the exhaust valve. Look up HCCI at Autoline network for an interview discussing this engine.
Ahhhh that sound which today is disappear completely and imagine one day that could be reproduced again and what s your favourite engine on this List? but as always good video ;-)
I have seen a oil burning flathead , that ran for years with used gear oil. 1952 Dodge.
That last one was a beauty
Hey, my suggestion! Wished the Indian that beat Harley in racing even after Harley went OHV was in there, but killer vid nonetheless as always.
Great and classics engines!!!
Though less powerful and restricted engine breathing, they look like beautiful engines and neater with the valves nicely arranged to flush with the cylinder head cover instead of modern engines with the current huge alien T heads protruding above the combustion chamber due to Plumbing space occupied by Overhead camshaft and its connecting chain and Valve trains
the muscle sounding straight 6 is amazing
Them Chrysler flathead 6s was smooth running engines for sure
great video my friend you do such a good job !! keep up the good work
Closing song is perfect for this videos topic lol.
Is it weird that I find the sound of engine's soothing i go to sleep to these videos every night my wife dosent find it as relaxing as me tho
Great channel. My favourite engine channel.
It's amazing to think that most modern 4 cylinders make more power than almost all of these... Those old flat heads sure sound nice though ☺
am 88 so i am used to the old engs but we were not power crazy like to day we almost climb a tree with old army trks at about 85 hp and so easy to work on plus ----gasoline was 5 gal one $ that was good ole days my first car was a 36 buick
Way more torque from the old engines
So Harley designed an engine which had massive oil leaks by design?
I want to be proud of my country, but that bike makes it difficult.
It leaked out through a what was essentially a sponge with bristles to lubricate the chain. The "leak" from that wasn't even enough to stain your driveway.
@@geargrinder6248 I suppose that makes it better, thanks.
Stick with chainsaws chuck..you obviously arent a biker
Very well done chap. I know that took time to put together.. i have a request can you do the first ten diesels?
At lower RPM, in a longer-stroke engine, the flathead can, in some applications, be more efficient than OHV, and many owners liked them because they were quieter with fewer moving parts in the valvetrain.
Suggestion: in your research have you run across any flathead diesels?
Dig your channel; I'm subscribed
Great video, learned about a couple of Motors I didn't know about, thank you. However the Harley 45 was not a total loss oil system. If they were they be pouring oil all over the street. The Harley's that had total loss oil systems with the old board track racers from the 20s. The Flathead did have an Oiler for its drive chain which always left a puddle of oil every time you parked the bike. they also kept making that 45 motor past 1969 into the seventies. They use them in the servi-car trikes, that the police used. They also had kind of a neat Flathead sportbike called the Sportster back in the 50s. Fun fact it was Harley's first working rear suspension motorcycle. Thanks again for the great videos please keep them going.
K model
5:40 oh those straight cut gears! #mesh
Packard inline 8 sounds nice
is there a company out there remaking this block ?
The ford flathead may not have been the first, but it was the first mass affordable V8, and it’s the reason we have the LS today. Affordable V8s made the US have a V8 fettish
With the development of the 5 stroke principle, I think the flat head may make a comeback. The 5 stroke engine has 2 high pressure pistons that operate on the 4 stroke cycle, firing alternatingly. These pistons then exhaust into a 3rd low pressure that extracts more mechanical work off of the expanding gasses.
For example, an engine with 7.5:1 compression, could have an overall 15:1 expansion ratio, which would achieve diesel level fuel economy, but run on gas, and be able to carm massive volumes or boost into the engine and still run on 87 octane fuel without knocking.
Such low compression lends itself well to both turbocharging, and to the flat head design.
David Blalock - Livin' Life
Am not an engineer or even an extreme gear head but the 5 stroke does sound promising. Hope the major manufacturers look into and research this design.
it looks promising on paper. in real life it might not work so well..... impatiently waiting for someone to do more testing, I want either a flying car or one that gets a hundred miles per gallon of fuel. promises were made by the engineering community that were not kept! I for one, protest!
Luke Warmwater - Me thinks thou protests too much.
oh, so you dont want a flying car?...... they told us they were working on it what happened?
Wow. That's interesting
Sugarbike:
I split the exhaust manifold on 1948 Pontiac straight so I had a 4 x4 split and it sounded almost like a V8. I built a air collector for the engine fan and had a forced air for the engine intake. It cut my 0 to 60 MPH time by about 3 seconds. My 1953 Pontiac 6 cylinder had the head planned the about .100 and had lots more torque.
if you could count non-car engines... the kholer k series flat head engines are awesome too they range from 5hp to 21 there used in garden tractors mostly in J.I Case tractors like the ones on my channel ( p.s if you (visio racer) want to use some of my vids I give you full permission )
:)
The flatheads were good before electronic rev limiters. Later, you had to watch a tachometer guage to not over-rev and maybe damage the engine. The 1970s Yamaha parallel twin motorcycles with 650cc had a roller bearing crankshaft to minimize damages from over-revving, and also from the very low quality oil filter.
Another great video! 👍👌👏
the pizza is aggressive
Aggressive Pizza i only know how to eat aggressive cheeseburgers
Aggressive Pizza old meme
damn it, you just made me hungry lol
The agressive pizza is on the roof
Aggressive Pizza thank you for gallantly informing us of this warning that could come as an advantage in the long run.
The Studebaker flathead six also sounds pretty good. It has a long stroke so it sounds similar to a diesel engine
Side valve engines are notorious for heat issues. Since the valves are in the block, the intake and exhaust passages are entirely within the block. That means that hot exhaust gases pass through the water jacket = Difficult cooling. What's more, the side valve engine [just like most Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engines] creates huge exhaust emissions due to the slim area [this is called "squish area, and Wankel engine combustion chamber shape has this issue too] over the valves when the spark fires. The best combustion chamber design is a shallow hemisphere where the charge can congregate in the center. The flat head spreads that over a huge area, and the shape includes a large flat area over the valves. Charge in this area does not burn properly and as a result there is less power and bad exhaust emissions.
At least Cadillac did the FH V-8 right, with the exhaust ports not going all the way through the block to the other side, causing serious overheating problems with the Ford design.
I think the Ford flathead that transmitted a lot of heat to the coolant at least provided very abundant heat for driving in Arctic climates. Probably faster warmup too. But needed a large radiator.
@@davidpowell3347 Late engines employ this. I own a 2001 Subaru Outback and the H6 engine has one exhaust outlet per cylinder head. This is done to heat up the catalytic converter quickly.
Great video dude! Subscribed for more
Speaking of flat head engines I one a 1971 International Harvester Cub Lo-Boy 154 compact tractor and its a got a little 4 cylinder flat head engine making 15 HP. The most powerful version of that engine made 18 HP. My 15 HP in my tractor makes nice 4 cylinder burble. If I get a chance I want to get a video of it running then you can add it to your video. I would love to be a part of your content you post.