The Real Reason We Don't Have Single Payer Healthcare (Thom Hartmann Interview)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- --Thom Hartmann, host of The Thom Hartmann Program and author of his latest book, "The Hidden History of American Healthcare: Why Sickness Bankrupts You and Makes Others Insanely Rich," joins David to discuss healthcare in the United States. Get the book: amz.run/4sBl
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Broadcast on September 7, 2021
#davidpakmanshow #healthcare #medicareforall
As a nurse working for oncologists I hated that people who couldn't afford health insurance and wanted to pay cash for their chemo and radiation treatments were refused. The reason doctors refused to take those patients is because when they run out of cash and have sold everything they own and still need treatments the doctors risk being sued if they stop treating them. I cried every time an uninsured patient was turned away. The American healthcare system is barbaric.
When I go to the doctor in the USA they can't even tell me how much I will owe until they submit their billing codes to my employer provided insurance company. 2 months later I get a bill for what they decided not to cover.
A month later I get more bills for other things.
Even with insurance Im afraid of going to the doctor.
America SUCKS in so many ways.
I don't know my cost either. But None of us does around here but that's because we don't pay for it up front. We know our amount of taxes but that's it. I hope you will be able to love like that in the future.
Pay cash & pay triple!
@@kendallsmith1458 Many Health Insurance companies are billed a higher amount in many cases compared to those who pay out of pocket in cash!
That is why you should never pay your medical bills right away. Let the doc office and the insurance company jostle back and forth for several months. A final figure eventually gets sifted out. If you pay too much initially, just try getting the excess back. It's never worked, to my knowledge.
I’ve seen my folks fighting insurance companies for years and it’s just not right! Insurance companies really do suck! Single payer must be better! Here they make it easier for the greedy to take advantage of our aging loved ones by making the process sooo confusing they either are too afraid to go to the hospital because of the bills or god forbid just give up! These companies should be regulated and governed at the very least and pay huge fines over their greedy policies!!! Make them pay til it hurts because they have bullied our love ones for too long. My cardiologist told me my insurance company told him I was only a common laborer so I didn’t deserve some of the best treatments others receive!!! My battle is just beginning!!! God bless America but send the greedy to hell where they belong!
David please bring back Thom Hartman for more interviews. He's just a treasure trove of knowledge in terms of world history and geopolitical history.
Thom's been on David's show many times and vice versa. Here's an oldie but goodie.
th-cam.com/video/ichZzh0H-Jc/w-d-xo.html
His biggest weakness IMO is economics.
Fight racism by going vegan.
@@affinity1 How so? I've learned a lot about economics from Thom.
It's interesting. I love Thom Hartmann's own show, but I think he is kind of a terrible guest on other people's shows. He rarely exhibits the same passion as on his own show, particularly when he has gone on Bill Maher. I get excited each time and each time he is underwhelming and too deferential to the other guests and to Maher.
As a Canadian, I'm totally confused about why the 'richest country in the world' can't take care of it's own citizens! Just baffling!
HERE is a hint ; the US is NOT the richest country in the world, it continues to FAIL and is BANKRUPT, SOON the US dollar will be DEVALUED
IT'S ALL A LIE about the US
@@gocanada9749 That's just patently untrue. The US absolutely is the "richest country". The problem is how they define "richest". In particular, they define it in such a way that a single Jeff Bezos fortune averages out again millions of low-wage workers such as those his own company employs that have to piss in bottles just to keep their crap job because they'd be destitute and homeless if they lost it.
GDP (even GDP per capita) has turned out to be a poor measure of overall status of a nation. Certainly its an indication of how wealthy the nation is overall - and that's not entirely meaningless or useless, but without knowledge of where that wealth resides its usefulness is limited to basically just predicting the scope of national expenditures (such as the military budget). That's why modern rhetoric tends to focus on measures like wealth disparity or purchase power parity rather than simple totals like GDP when we want to consider the plight of actual individual people.
You clearly do not know what the word bankrupt means.
If an individual isn't allowed to stand or fall on the strength of his own, personal grit and initiative he cannot build character. The USA builds that character in her citizens. It is the process that produces "American Exceptionalism"! Do you want your nation to be exceptional or do you want to beat cancer without going bankrupt?? Try to think selflessly.
@@termsofusepolice Right, the US is the ONLY country with good people with character who work hard and have initiative. Fact is, every other advanced country in the world, and many not so advanced, has some form of public healthcare (practically all of them that have lower healthcare costs and better outcome), but they are all wrong and WE are right. Cuz of American Exceptionalism.
I have French healthcare. I’m a dual citizen US French. In the US healthcare represents about 18% of GDP while very few are covered, for those who are covered, there are many additional astronomical expenses, not to mention, the us private healthcare system is greedy, it’s primary reason to exist is to pay out ever-growing dividends to stockholders. In France on the other hand, everybody is covered 100% including dental which represents, in cost, about 9% of GDP. the US system is unjust, unfair, unethical, immoral and completely corrupt to its core. This country when it comes to healthcare is a despicable and a disgrace.
God , I agree and have been screaming this for 40 years.
My mother and my sisters went to Paris a few years ago. My mother got sick. One of my sisters went to the front desk and asked about an getting ambulance. The concierge made a phone call. A doctor showed up at the hotel a short time later checked out mother, gave her some pills, and packed up his bag. My sister asked him about the bill. He smiled and said,
'Tu es en France!", shook her hand and left.
Yeah, the French dealt with the “let them eat cake” crew effectively….
"As soon as we put profit into the health care system, there is no chance that we will help anybody but the stockholders."
--Dennis Kocinich
I think you mean - Dennis Kucinich, and thank you for posting that spot on quote!
@@vickijacobs8989 He did mean Kucinich and Kucinich's statement is simplistic and incorrect.
@@edarcuri182 simplistic, yes. But NOT incorrect.
@@tracyleighbasham Simplistic means oversimplified. Profit is what allocates capital in a market. So, profit in medicine means that additional resources will be expended on areas in which there is the greatest likelihood for return.
Some illnesses and conditions will require an altruistic (by which some mean government) approach such as those which will require orphan drugs for remedial or curative properties.
People always hate profit except, of course, on pay day.
I loved Dennis. He was the only man in Congress to speak against the Vietnam War. A nearby church marched to acknowledge the death of soldiers on foreign soil. We carried a Lilly for each one. My dead soldier was a well trained 21 yr old in electronics. What a wasted life. Vietnam was a lie just like Afghanistan; h7h&h
From Holland, Europe.
France's population is 67 million
Germany is 83 million.
The UK is 66 million
The total population of the EU is 447 million
Switzerland is not in the EU.
Social security and universal healthcare are human rights in the entire EU.
Great interview. I learned a lot.
Take care and stay safe!
While I generally agree with Hartmann, his recollection of data is often very selective.
I noticed that Thom was way off on his European population figures. Thanks for providing the actual numbers
Great Britain is no longer in the EU either.
I'd appreciate more of these mini topic discussions.
Thom is the master of political history
Two actual adults having an intelligent conversation about single payer, now that needs to spread to every politician in America.
I cant believe that no one in the comments even mentions that the government, corporations, wealthy whites reason for not adopting universal health care was because they didn't want black people to get it and it actually was their plan to kill off the race by denying them access to basic health care. Pakman doesn't question this bombshell nor does his white Liberal congregation in the comments . You have to wonder what are there real political convictions and morals I don't see them .
@@user-rq3gr8pj8t There is nothing to be said further. NO ONE is surprised, and it's something that I have suspected for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if right wingers are fighting against universal health care simply because the USA isn't homogenous which is only white.
The far left and progressives are fighting for m4a tho.
@UCdUliZKArhDkoSOw9tt1Ceg I thought pakman was supposed to be on the left. My take is he's not interested in the historical racist origins of government continued efforts to shoot down universal health care to prevent it benefitting black people. He looks genuinely unmoved even when tom Has to spell it out for him. It did not spark in his mind any need to discuss further with Tom because it didn't fit he's narrative of republican v Democrat .this pakman is lousy man I was shocked to my core to hear what Tom had revealed yet this robot was not interested in discussing this point at all. This then filters down to his followers in the comments .smfh.
@@user-rq3gr8pj8t He's unmoved because he's NOT surprised. I was NOT surprised either. It's not news to us.
BTW, it was discussed further. What do you want to hear? more about the dixiecrats? which no longer exist but their members now vote republicans?
Thom was supposed to discuss the many factors why m4a wasn't popular in the USA, not republican v democrat.
The problem is there are no intelligent politicians. The current brand of democrate is our closes bet. But, politicians only want one thing ... enhance their personal power. 4 years ago I said, and still believe today, if you called it Trumpcare instead of Obamacare, you'd see that program expand dramatically.
Love to Thom! 30 years ago I started watching The Thom Hartman Show…
Every Friday he would talk with Bernie Sanders and it was called Brunch with Bernie. I used to think, ‘why can’t we have a PRESIDENT like Bernie’…..30 years ago. Thom is such a great historian.
Lol you're joking about the 30 years right? Just in case others don't know, The Thom Hartmann show started in 2003. David started 2 years later.
Yea airamerica had thom loved the brunch with bernie segment also randi rhodes. Sadly that station here in LA went right wing. I catch thoms show on kpfk 90.7 fm now
I'm Spanish, with all our medical bills covered by the state. This is how I'm proud of paying taxes and I'm really sorry about the system you guys have in the state
👍
The state does not pay for Spanish healthcare. Spanish taxpayers pay for Spanish healthcare. Your income taxes are far higher than an Americans of similar income.
And even with higher taxes that cover healthcare and other public good, we still pay much more per person for healthcare in the US. Unfortunately the average ignorant American would rather pay $10,000 per year for health insurance than have a tax increase of $5,000 for the same services. Because, you know, taxes bad.
@@gheller2261 I think more and more Americans, myself included, are very much in favor of a single payer system.
@@gheller2261 I'll agree with you on that. But I don't think it's so much "taxes bad" as it is "That's SOCIALISM! Socialism BAD!" And maybe there's a good bit of "I don't trust the government to get it right, because they sure as hell don't have a good track record of managing our tax dollars in the past."
Thom HARTMANN has the most incredible memory. I love his show! David Pakman is an excellent interviewer who gives his guest the time to speak. Rare, most interviewers want to hear their voices. Well done. This is another great station.
Canadian here. Perfectly fine with my taxes going to health care.
Me too. Better my taxes go to healthcare than my life savings.
Australian here. Also. We almost achieved a single payer scheme in the 1970's under a Labor government but when the "Liberals" (ie not like the Canadian party but conservatives, neoliberals) returned to power they were caught up in Thatcherism and gutted it. So now we have an hybrid public/private system which works reasonably well and per capita is slightly more expensive than yours, both of which are about half the US.
@@RJM56 Always wanted to visit Australia. One of my best friends moved to New Zealand about 5 years ago. Loves it there. Would love to see both someday. Bucket list for me is to go into a great white shark cage from the Rodney Fox charters. Stay safe.
BOOOO... yer commies. It's wage theft. We must allow people to maximize their wages / profits! In fact I just heard Candunce Owens arguing this point.
@@ferox965 bit more sedate for me. Decades ago backpacking around the world I arrived in Canada for the first time on the ferry from Seattle WA to Victoria BC and on to Vancouver and the second time on foot from Niagara Falls NY to Niagara Falls ON across the International Bridge then up to Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal. Unfortunately didn't have time for anywhere else.
As a Canadian, I would hunt down any politician even suggesting we should back away from universal healthcare, and I would not be alone
Hopefully nobody like Americans Republican politicians take over. Because if that happened you’d lose your healthcare and then be forced to pay high costs to get insurance. Have to pay like 80.00 fee right when you enter the door, a high monthly health insurance fee and a down deductible. So there would be a riot in Canada.
More Canadians need to let their neighbors know how important single payer is. You need to out yell your vax-hating truckers.
I applaud your country and now hate mine
Read up on Trump's health care plan
You can find them all in the Alberta and Ontario Conservative parties.
I don't comment often, but I most say this was one of the best interviews I've seen in a long time. Incredibly informative, thank you! I'd love more like this!
Listen to Thom Hartmanns show. Thom is always opening eyes. He's the man.
Healthcare is a business in the States. There's a lot of money to be made and a lot of people have their snouts in the trough. Thank God we have free healthcare 👍
Amen...
Single payer can, ultimately generate as much or more money, just not directly in the pockets of the current healthcare companies. But overall many, many people will be better off, clients and providers and innovation will be higher, care will be directed to everyone instead of the happy few who can afford it.
Please stop calling single payer healthcare ‘free’. It’s not free, these systems are paid for. Paid for by tax money that is allocated for running the programs that provide healthcare to the citizens of the country. Unless we can get the American population to understand how the single payer system works, they don’t have a hope in hell of joining the rest of the world in this style of healthcare. ❤️🇨🇦
There is no such thing as "Free Healthcare".
@@ivarbrouwer197 So what you are saying is mediocre healthcare for all instead of some.
Tom's knowledge and intellect is a joy to listen to. Universal health care is imperative.He has explained so well the weakness in arguments against universal health care.
My two favorites, don't forget Glenn Kirshner also.
Started a new job as a contract employee last week health insurance through the staffing firm i now work for. Got the COBRA info from my old employer this week...$1500/month if I wanted to continue my old coverage...this is ludicrous.
When I lost my teaching job, my COBRA payment would have been over $1500, and the school district forgot! To turn in the paperwork so I would have had to pay the 4 months I was not covered before I could be current. I did say I was unemployed...
There are actually six simple reasons why the USA will never have universal healthcare:
1. Ridiculously overpaid pharmaceutical executives
2. Ridiculously overpaid malpractice lawyers
3. Ridiculously overpaid doctors
4. Ridiculously overpaid hospital management
5. Private insurance companies that don’t need to exist at all
6. Items 1. - 5. all have powerful government lobbies that keep politicians in their back pocket.
well there is only one way to address that. and it will be beyond the law.
As a 66 year old US physician, my experience has shown that this statement is true. Cost effective, high quality patient care as a priority is last in line among these profit-seeking components, whose main interest is preserving the status quo.
Spot on with your analysis
Well all those things may be true, lobbying should be made illegal. Many years ago we should have changed medical care to single payer. Truly I feel Americans deserve better than what’s in place . I don’t want to pay for everyone anymore and I have been my entire adult life.
I just saw this and had to comment. Primary care physicians do not make that much money. This is why most medical students chose to go into subspecialty areas of medicine. This lack of primary care physicians is why so many patients wait weeks to see a physician and why so patients tell friends their physician is quitting practice and they are waiting another 3-4 weeks to see a new physician.
Those physicians quitting practice? - I know 2 of them. They went into cosmetic and weight loss treatment. They charge cash only. People are willing to pay full price for that but will not pay $10 copays for clinic visits. I know a primary care doctor who left because she was being paid by medicare $20 a visit for clinic visit. That is why physicians are forced to see 30-40 patients a day. Then, they pay nurses, building rent and finally pay themselves.
Also, most medical students come out of training with 100k of student loans. I honestly have no idea how these young doctors make it. While other young people their age are making, say $50-60K a year, they are going into debt.
I'm of the opinion that major corporations also play a role in that they enjoy the hostage situation it affords them with employees. They may complain about covering health care, but they also use it for bargaining power, as well as retention. People are often stuck at jobs they hate because they desperately need the healthcare. That's another reason that pre-existing condition clause was so important.
That being said, we should be flying to the floor with the legislation he speaks of while we've got this slim majority. Allowing states to go single payer without forfeiture of federal funds would potentially create a domino effect, as we've seen with state marijuana laws.
I've been saying this for ages. Corporations don't want their staff to leave. Bernie can't talk about corporations destroying small business because people can't afford to run a small business and compete with corporations that offer healthcare plans. I live in Australia and pay my small staff $26/hr plus an additional 10% to retirement and all of us automatically have Medicare. We never talk about healthcare because its a non issue.
Agree
Oh absolutely! The current system gives a lot of power and control to the employer over their employees.
How many Americans feel tied to a job they hate because they cant afford to lose their benefits?
Republicans supposedly support small businesses. Well, there would be a hell of a lot more entrepreneurship if anyone with an idea could pursue it without fear of losing insurance coverage.
It takes 60 votes in the Senate to pass any healthcare bill, that's what the ACA got and it was all Democrats. Not one Republican voted for Obamacare not surprisingly. We are 10 votes short so universal healthcare is NOT going to happen. Give he Dems at least 60 Senate seats in 2022 and we just might get it.
Greed basically is what stops all progress.
Greed combined with control and government stops progress.
Greed is the cause of all progress. Or more simply, humans respond to incentives. Greed is a strong term
Greed and racism
More like lack of empathy and the fact that most people are heathy most of the time.
@@HenryPaulThe3rd Progress to destruction
I love listening to Thom Hartman; I learn so much. I just purchased this latest book in the series.
He is a vast wealth of information.
Thom is the best
Animal lives matter go vegan.
a walking american history textbook
He means well, but he's tone deaf at times, like here. Most Americans don't want single payer because unlike other countries, they simply don't trust our government to provide adequate care. I muh prefer Australia's system. They heavily regulate private while still having universal as the default.
Thom Hartmann talked about the Canadian "universal" health care system beginning at 6:35 of this video. He mentioned how Canada's system began with the Province of Saskatchewan's "Medicare" system, which worked so well and saved so much money that it became the model for the beloved "universal" system Canadians enjoy today.
What he did not mention was that the Premier of Saskatchewan at the time, the so-called "father of Medicare", was Tommy Douglas. "Tommy the commie" faced enormous political pressure by the entire North American medical industry to abandon Medicare, including a doctors' strike that lasted three weeks! But through strength of character and determination, he forced the medical establishment to back down. Medicare became the law in Saskatchewan and, to the surprise of many, it worked so well that even the doctors embraced it.
Today Tommy Douglas is a national hero.
It's mind boggling why this can't be easily fixed. Healthcare is not even an issue in my country unless there is a pandemic.
Thank God i live in the Netherlands (=Holland)
It can be easily fixed.
Corporate Republicans, Corporate Democrats.
Bought and paid for.
It will never change
It can be easily fixed. It just won't be.
Works so well in Australia. Get sick you will be looked after at no cost to you. Your system is terrible.
Damn commies their free healthcare :)
Our system is indeed terrible.
Universal healthcare is a *moral imperative*, end of discussion.
The USA is heading to civil war: patriot v patriot. Perhaps in the post civil war environmental disaster strewn semi flooded earth scorched water starved future America can be the socialist nation her founders espired for.
you cant claim moral superiority and end the discussion and expect skeptics to flock to your cause. You need to discuss and discuss until everyone knows all the facts and comes to the obvious conclusion.
@@jftt42 Skeptics about universal healthcare are welcome to *FOAD*.
@@rsteeb I thought the whole point was to leave no people behind.
@@jftt42 The whole point is that our "for-profit" medical insurance scam/system awards us with poorer outcomes for more expense than the rest of the "civilized" world enjoys with single-payer coverage. That is a FACT, and those immune to reality are beyond help.
Thom Hartmann; humble, smart, prolific writer. Always informative & pleasure to tune into
David and Thom together!!! Be still my beating heart!!!!! 💙💙💙
I knew before I clicked I was going to enjoy an intelligent conversation.
The real reason is - employer based health insurance prevents employees from easily changing jobs to improve wages, so employers like it because it helps for employee retention and to suppress wage growth. Medicare for all would be a huge improvement in bargaining power for employee's wages.
I see where you're going, but don't totally agree.
If you work in an industry where employer provided healthcare isn't the norm then yes, it might stop you from changing if you lose coverage.
What it *will* do is stop you from quitting without another job already in the bag, or retiring before age 65 when Medicare kicks in. That was my situation. I didn't have to work, I could retire at 62 BUT with my health I couldn't afford an individual policy so I stuck it out.
I have a friend who really hated her job. She retired 18 months before her 65th so she could just use COBRA until 65.
Not really. In addition to but in some ways more important than Hope's response is that companies have to pay _lots_ of money for your health coverage. Certainly they get some "bulk deals" (that is, they pay less than the total of all individual employees purchasing the same plan from the same provider on an individual basis) but overall if there was externally-provided healthcare they stand to save a _lot_ of money, which is something companies tend to like doing.
Of course the other side of that is taxes would need to go up to cover the cost of the new system and because not dying is apparently a "radical liberal" ideology in America today, its almost certain that the bulk of those taxes would be progressive and therefore hit big business the most.. but even then, because single payer systems are so much cheaper overall it likely would still amount to a smaller cost for most businesses (the industries that currently don't provide their employees health coverage anyway would be fucked though I guess..)
That's really why you won't see it without an enormous and loud demand. Even when you take money out of the equation there is still an addiction to power to be dealt with. These are people who believe they are entitled to other peoples' pain and suffering, and explode whenever they think they won't be able to watch others fall through the cracks. Sounds like serial killer thinking to me.
From the perspective of the employee this would extend the paycheck, and the employer would be without a huge part of labor cost.
The more I learn about US history the more I am shocked how EVERYTHING is connected to racism. We keep hearing about "systemic racism" but we don't fully understand it until we learn facts like these. It makes me mad, sad, outraged,
baffled....what can the human mind come up with when they hate the other.
And when blacks call out the racism, they get the gas lighting response, "Why is everything about race with you people? Why do you people always use the race card???" Anything to get us to shut up about it, and just take it..
I have two friends from London who are nurses who came to visit the US two years ago. One was extremely upset at our health care system because of the financial cost. She couldn’t believe Americans could go bankrupt in trying to get healthcare. Three years ago, a young Norwegian woman was hit by a car and suffered a broken shoulder. She went to four different hospitals who refused to give her care because she was not an American and did not have insurance. I spent a hour talking with her. She kept saying while crying “this would never happen to an American in my country” except for corporate visits for her company, she said many times that she will never live in America period. She got care when she got home.
A friend of mine was in Canada ten years ago on a motorcycle trip. She and her boyfriend were hit by a pickup. Her boyfriend died. Despite wearing a helmet,she suffered a TBI, was in a coma for six months, needed a year of physical and mental therapy to regain her physical and cognitive functioning. She is an American citizen. It cost her 0 in the Canadian system. Just think how much it would have cost her under our system. It’s Just the fact that other countries put people first instead of profits . As a retired health care provider, I agree we need to get a single payer system.
And, for those who are unvaccinated, you don’t believe in science or healthcare until you get Covid and then you want science to save you. Meanwhile, my colleagues are getting burned out trying to help and people who need care for other reasons can’t get it because you’re clogging the system. Next step, rationing of care in the ER and insurance companies not paying for Covid care if you’re unvaccinated.
Americans without medical insurance don't go bankrupt - only the ER and certain free clinics will accept the people without insurance - the hospitals won't accept cash unless you arrived through the ER - then they send you statements, turn it over to a collection agency . There may be a few physicians who will accept cash. If the condition isn't life threatening you live with it.
Went to emergency last month with eye injury and hospital is charging me $30k for one night stay. Bill was actually $50k but they gave me a 20% discount for paying cash. $5k room and board (not even 24 hours), $8k for CT scan, $22k for operating room service, $3k for meds. Outside eye surgeon came in to close up wound he only charged me $1,600!!!! These hospitals are profit machines that’s why we will never have free healthcare.
Make sure you ask for an itemized bill.
@@phiksit LOL, my stepfather saw the itemized bill for his 10 day stay in ICU and went ballistic when he saw $10 charge for a single bandaid.
Here in NZ your entire treatment is Zero and because it was an accident your wages /salary is
80% paid by the Govt.The rehab costs are covered too.
The argument "The US have so many more people" is the stupidest of them all. Any insurance is _better_ the more people participate, it's called spreading of risk.
It's an excuse, not a bona fide argument.
Even if it were completely at no cost, the rulers of the society would fight tooth and nail not to allow all those health care, housing, "high" education (it was high in the 19th century, today it's elementary), living wage as civil rights goodies.
Because it would have freed the plebeians from the burden of selling their time to the capitalist. And freedom is power. See 1984 chapter 17.
So all the Bernie et al. literature on how we can afford it is just a waste of time. It's critical to truly and deeply understand what allows the rulers of the society to retain their power, in order to take it away from them.
@@notabene7381 The US can afford anything it wants for sale in US dollars, it creates USD on a keyboard every single time it spends, so to say it can't afford healthcare is a straight up lie. The US doesn't want to pay for healthcare because that is what gives elites leverage over working people. If you want to control a population why would you give up one of your biggest tools? The other tool they use is unemployment, to keep you looking at the guy down below you so that YOU don't ask for raises, so that you don't go on strike, so that you will be so overwhelmed with problems that you will ignore voting, ignore all the other heinous things being done to us, so that you will lose all hope and not be able to think for yourselves.
150 million, or roughly double Germany's population, Americans are obese.
No, that's not true. More people who contribute significant financial resources will lower the medical costs - low income with no resources can't lower the costs. That's why the least costly medical care is in wealthy communities.
Thom is a hidden treasure! I wish young progressives would watch him.
I do
A lot of us do
I enjoy watching him
I do as well
I’m not young, but I watch Thom’s stream every weekday from 12:00pm to 3:00pm est. I learn something new everyday and his book recommendations are a gold mine!
As usual Thom knows his history as it relates to current issues
Thank you for having him on
Glad to see Thom with David again, educational! Thanks for airing.
Australia has medicare. the doctor has a bulk bill system here for general things or the patient might need to pay a small gap for some consultations. We also have an extra private health system that might speed up a visit to a specialist or hospital for regular health monitoring. Emegency medical care you just turn up at hospital or go in an ambulance to the best hospital that can take you. Thank you Australia for such a good and fair system.
As an Australian it’s far from perfect though, things like elective surgery waiting times and the whole public dental system aren’t great. Plus there are changes like less and less bulk billing everywhere and less Medicare coverage for MRI scans etc. having said that, I still get pretty good peace of mind with the overall system.
I'm a Canadian that just shakes my head when I hear stories, nightmares might be a be a better description, of how your for profit system works. Is our system perfect? No but what is in life? I was in a major car wreck decades ago, that almost killed me. I spent near 2 months in hospital, recovering from my injuries. All I needed was a Heath care card and I was good to go. I got the best of care and walked out of the hospital with no bill to pay. Is it free? No, nothing is free in this world, it's payed for out of our taxes. If you go to the hospital to have a cut stitched up or you have open heart surgery the price is the same. No huge insurance policies to pay, no pre-existing condition bullshit and no bankruptcies due to much needed Heath care. The biggest thing is it's stress free when you get sick or injured. Just needing to be hospitalized is stress enough and you shouldnt be worried about a huge bill. The U.S. drug and insurance companies and private hospital lobbies get the politicians to toe the line because they make billions in profits if things stay as they are. Both democrats and Republicans are swayed by big political donations. Obamacare is a start but it has a long way to go, before it's as good as our healthcare system. And no, we're not a communist country. In this case I'd rather have a single payer government run system, than private for profit companies running things. Healthcare is to important to leave in the hands of them. Good luck. Stay safe from covid!!! America is our closest friend, ally and biggest trading partner and we love Americans.
@robertwilson7301
Obamacare isn't a start it's a total failure, nightmare and disaster! Obamacare SUCKS!! Under Obamacare the insurance company decides whether or not you need the care and treatment that your doctor says you need. The last time I checked on it for just myself they wanted me to pay $2,200 a month. I don't make that kind of money so I have no healthcare insurance. All Obama did was price out the people like me who can't afford healthcare.
When I was a kid living with my parents, my Dad had insurance through his employer an office call was $10.00 and the Doctor would give samples of medication to try before calling in a prescription for you to the pharmacy.
I don't even have a doctor anymore because I don't have healthcare insurance, if I have a problem I go to a facility that they have here where they can diagnose me and write a prescription if there's a doctor there and pay at least $150. And that's not in my budget either.
That was a good response, but it is more complicated than that. for obamacare that was a massive socialism where the rich people pay taxes for the poor. It is called the NII tax. Look it up. and Obamacare ran the cost of medical care up four times. Most contractors in my area cannot buy health insurance because it is too expensive. Obamacare destroyed our health system. Since Obamacare is socialism this bill is for subsidies health insurance to the poor. the cost of this to the US treasury for Fiscal year 2025 from the OBM $1.0256 Trillion dollars. This, as you know, is all debt. total debt. The debt is bought by china. This is why we have a $34 trillion dollar deficit. I could go on for pages but this should give you an idea of how it works here. Another big point is wages, here in the US a surgeon makes $750K to $950K a year. you are going to tell that surgeon that now they are going to make $150K a year under universal care! Yeah right....
@@alanskinner7031
Good reply, even if it was totally bogus. The old 'socialism" bogeyman only works if you are trying to scare the uneducated. the healthcare that Congress gets is "socialist" on that level. What single pay healthcare is is that it is funded by taxpayers, sometimes by income tax, sometimes by another type of tax like a dedicated consumption tax. Canada is funded by taxes that senior levels of Government collect, and the cost per capita in Canada for healthcare is a lot smaller than the USA, and everyone is covered. and wages are not a big concern, Docs and other Med workers do very well in Canada too. The big difference in cost of healthcare between the USA and other countries is greed, but we can be polite and call it profit.
@@alanskinner7031 You seem to be hung up on the American attitude that "socialism is next to communism." In fact, the main cause of most problems in the U.S. can be traced back to rampant capitalism. Fairly taxing huge corporations and billionaires could easily pay for universal healthcare. But even that runs into the walls put up by not only the healthcare providers but by the pharmaceutical and insurance industries.
A few days ago, I watched SiCKO again. The main/ only reason we don't have single payer/ universal healthcare is GREED.
I wish Micheal Moore's stuff was more widely available.
It didn't start out as greed, read the darn book!
I'm sure it's difficult, if not impossible, for an American to wrap his or her head around the idea of walking out of a hospital after whatever treatment was provided without being presented with a bill. I live in a single payer country, and we have such a plan in place for everyone, not just older people.
Hell. The way it is now you have to pay up front for services or you don’t see the doctor!
We may have a less then optimal healthcare system, Tom, but we are not stupid. Of course we can "wrap our head around" the idea of walking out of hospital without being presented a bill. In spite of what you hear or read, there's a lot of us that have really good health insurance. I just wish everyone did.
@@TheBarkinFrog I didn't state or imply that Americans are stupid. I meant that they are ignorant of options available outside of the USA, which provide what you would call 'Zero deductable' insurance benefits. I will root for you to do what you can improve medical care for everyone in America. It's something we all deserve.
No, We are not ignorant of different systems. We do have the internet, books, magazines and TV. We know how other systems work. We are just subject to a ridiculously governmental system that makes basic corruption legal... as a wealthy company, you can influence politicians with money.
I was posted to America from the U.K. work related. Lovely country, warmhearted, generous natured people. In the U.K. the notion of getting a bill from a hospital or a physician never arrises. The only costs are medication $12.00 per prescription. Dental care and eyeglasses are partially covered. When I heard about 'pre-existing conditions' and 'co-pays' and ambulance costs I could not believe my ears. Also a little research revealed that America pays 18% GDP compared to 10% for the UK for health care. I do honestly believe that seeking to profit from illness and accidents is not ethically defendable. Of course costs need to be covered but my cancer should not be someones private jet.
Great/important info, interview, & conversation. Much appreciated 🙏
Wanted to see my doc today, got an appointment for tomorrow. My doc said he wanted to take time to talk to me about my issues and not to be in a rush today. I will get some new medics and paid sick leave for a few days to deal with it. Greetings from rural Germany!
I had depression problems in the Netherlands. The doctor send me to the welfaire agency and I got a year sick leave with benefits to see a psychiatrist every week. They wanted me to take the time I needed. After 2 years I was back at work and am still doing great. Hope you feel better soon too. Greetings from Holland!
As a German living in the US I can say that one thing I miss is the German healthcare system , it’s not a single payer system but it’s more effective and cheaper than the US system …. I have yet to find a German that wants to change with the US for profit system
As a German: the mentioning of Bismarck alone has convinced me to read this book, because he really knows what he is talking about!
At this point, mentioning Bismarck when talking about the history of universal healthcare is mentioning facts. In Spain the early UHC model in the 20th century was actually called "the Bismarckian Model".
The funny thing is that Bismarck introduced the social wellfare and insurance systems to fight back the rise of communism and socialism. The complete opposite of what happens in the US.
@@TheExi123 Exactly!!! There was no humanitarian aspect to this.
Tip ; Listen to Sabaton (a band) they have a song about Bismarck and they have a historychannel
The boat not the man !
Hardly. Talking about the German health system and underestimating the population by 30 million or 35% isn’t the hallmark of an expert.
Two of my favorite intellectuals. Racism has so profoundly shaped so much of America, that I think without it, there would be no America.
America built on racism and plans to die on that hill
My Canadian extended family members have had treatment for lung cancer,breast cancer,pacemaker,knee replacements,lens replacement surgery,etc......None of it cost them anything.
I love listening this guy he actually knows what he's talking about
He's wrong about this though, and I say this as a progressive. We should be aiming for a universal system, with private heavily regulated, like what Australia has. He was also wrong about Taiwan. Citizens are still free to choose between public and private providers, even though the insurance itself is covered by the government.
2 of my favorite podcasters together!!! I want more of this!!!
Once more, we learn that Racism formed the US of A to what it is today.
A country founded on racism, genocide, and exploitation.
Pretty much most of America’s problems stem from racism, even mundane things like public swimming pools…
@@mattk6101 Not everyone had those terrible traits. Unfortunately some people in power or people out of the limelight who had the ear of people in power, were. It's just like today. Thank God for oversight, and a system of checks and balances . The problem is, the Republicans have made it their job to eliminate those checks and balances, and basically rewrite the constitution.
Even better when you understand that middle class Afghans are being given direct checks to help them relocate. Meanwhile any talk of health care or reparations is a non-starter for Blacks.
This guy proved what I’ve 🇨🇦 always thought:
When Americans say “communism”, what they really mean is “Ain’t no way MY tax dollars will go to healthcare for POC and minorities!”
Making a profit from healthcare seems so very wrong to me.
Love Hartman he’s one of the first I found on TH-cam years ago. He’s awesome another great interview David you rock !!
"Profit over patient."
These new national hospital/nursing home companies are despicable. They should be dismantled. I hope you do speak with him about that side of this healthcare crisis in America. "The rich stay healthy, while the sick stay poor." ~Bono
Long story short, single payer in the US continually fails because of greed. Greed of healthcare corporations. Greed of healthcare investors. Greed of politicians of all ideological stripes.
Thom is absolutely the smartest man on talk radio. I learned so much listening to him.
LOVE IT when real educated adults discuss ideas that *matter*. It used to be a 'thing' back in the day....
I'm an American expat who's lived in Taiwan for years and have used the national health system multiple times. It's great. Most Americans are oblivious to what the rest of the developed world takes for granted.
@@jimbob9407 Every developed nation in the world has some sort of nationalized health care. The US is the outlier here. Why is that? On top of this health care costs are well above those of comparable nations.
Most bankruptcies in the US are caused by medical debt. Thousands die each year for lack of timely treatment due to the prohibitive expense of health care. Is this the price of innovation--for those who can afford it?
@@jimbob9407 I just looked up ‘ignorant f…wit’ in the dictionary and it just said, ‘Refer to Jim Bob’.
This is true.
@@jimbob9407 Jim Bob is troll.
@@jimbob9407 It's not the health care system that's the problem. It's the insurance. And in the rest of the developed world--not just Europe, the rest of the world--everyone is covered.
Yes, let's leave government out of health care! We all know industry has a stellar record of regulating itself.
it's more money in treating than curing!
Exactly why they haven’t cured cancer. Treatment makes them billions more
There's more money in insuring than treating and curing combined.
@@cerberus01 it's necessary to not treat or cure too much.
As a Canadian, I'd like our healthcare to be even more centralized with the federal government, but that's a pipe dream in the current climate. It works too well for anyone to care to make any changes. Not that there aren't issues (dental and all prescription drugs should be covered), but even without centralizing it it works rather well.
Fellow Canadian here. It’s hard, especially during Covid but I had very recent cataract surgery, they r following me hard for glaucoma, I saw three docs for a recent weird virus causing diarrhea, and I m going thru a back thing where they r following me. And I m healthy! Despite all that bs. Anyways no cost to me for any of these problems
Why do you want your Medicare system to be centralized if it works well at the provincial level? I live in a small unitary country (Cyprus) that also has a universal healthcare system that’s centralized
If I lived in the states with all my health problems, I’d be sitting on the curb with a begging bowl instead of living in dignity until I die with money to spend. Love Canada’s socialized health care.
Obamacare is really Romney care which Romney thought up in Massachusetts good for insurance companies and drug companies
Now I understand why so many people don't want CRT taught in America. How about we teach the unvarnished truth the good and the bad in America
CRT? Critical Race Theory
Knowing things changes voting. It's not just CRT; Republicans have been trying to white wash history for a long time, coming up with textbooks that concentrate on fairy tales rather than actual events. The recent attempts to control higher education by threatening funding to control curriculums and scare lecturers into not teaching certain topics, is all about noticing that college educated voters lean Democrat. I loved DeSantis's lie when he excused his attacks on higher education as coming from complaints that parents saw their children as coming back trained communists. I'm betting zero parents complained to him. It's a true dystopian farce in the US.
Hey, the USA still has plenty to be proud of. Knowing about all the bad as well as the good is what makes you a better citizen and better to your fellow citizens.
@@aralbrec
Intelligent comment. Thank you.
People don't want CRT taught in the US because it's bullshit, and because it stigmatizes the majority, none of whom had anything to do with historic injustices. It's as nonsensical as proposing that we should teach "patriarchial theory" or "heterosexual theory" or "cisgender theory" or "beauty theory" or "smart person theory" or "athletic prowess theory". They all would trade in the same premise: that some group has historic advantages over other groups, and that therefore people who *today* happen to belong to the groups who have benefited, are bad.
Aussie here, we have a private and public system and I think that's the best system as it gives people choice. I've had no problems with the public system, It includes dental as well. I think the way the issue has been framed in the U.S is particularly bad, the term democratic socialism needs to be dropped, just say you want the same healthcare systems as Canada, Australia, U.K etc. No need for talk about socialism and communism.
Reich wingers will just start lying and calling those free healthcare countries commie socialists. And republiclowns will eat it up. There's no getting around the stupid in amerikkka.
The thing about universal health care is, once you get it, nobody, not even those who were against it, wants to give it back.
Exactly👍
From Canada:. Out health care is no perfect, but had I been in the US, I'd be living in a cardboard box for the rest of my life.
Yeah I hear that argument often. People say they can’t do it because there are 300 million people. Wtf. The USA runs the military just fine. The argument is ridiculous.
While Switzerland is in the single market, it's not in the EU
As swiss, i would like to mention that even though we have an expensive system, its mainly because of what is covered by the most simple and basic insurrance you get. Free choice of doctor or hospital you want to go, all on the most modern technological level. No matter what you have, lets say your needed operation would cost 1 million dollars, its covered. Germany f.e. puts this simply on taxes, our MVT is 10% lower, but we have to pay our insurrance every month. Of course, paying is never fun, but we think its the better way than letting the government do with this money what they want, we made sure it really goes into our health care system. And when you are struggling with paying, lets say after rent and food you simply cannot afford it, the government jumps in and pays your insurrance for you. I think the USA has just picked the bad things from both systems....
At least Switzerland has a universal healthcare system that’s free at the point of service even if it’s not single payer unlike America. America doesn’t even have a cohesive universal healthcare system be it Medicare for all or anything else
There’s no reason to go broke because you have one big incident or bad health issues…… love Canadian healthcare system
Yay Thom Hartmann!!!❤️
I'm CDN who winters in Florida and every year the same horror story plays out. An American couple who have raised kids, worked jobs and eventually retire. They enjoy a year of so then one of them gets sick and they have to sell their retirement dream to return north to live in their kids basement and spend the remainder of the hopes and dreams paying for tests, opinions and drugs. ... It's a horror show no one should have to live through.
The health care system killed my wife. We had insurance through our employer but the insurance flat refused to preauthorize her cancer treatment. I fought them and they continued to toss the hot potato between the 2 health insurance companies of Anthem Blue Cross and Advantek until she finally died of metastatic breast cancer.
Why is there no Single Payer Healthcare? Because if there were, there is a long string of predatory parasites that will be cut out of the interests loop.
Yes there are multiple universal healthcare models around the work all of which are better than what you have in the states. Look at what works and what would suit your unique culture and economy.
David finally has his dad on the show! Yay!!!
Thom's been on several times
Yup, I swear Thom Hartmann is basically an older, wizened David Pakman. It's uncanny, as if David from a couple decades from now traveled back through time to speak with his younger self. Or, I suppose, as you say, he's just David's pops; that is quite a bit simpler an explanation (Occham's Razor and all that).
Two of my favorites!
I the mid 1960s when I was a very young girl. Our local doctor would come to our house to check on me after getting vaccinated to make all was right. No one was frightened to go to the doctor. It was about your health and not and robbing you blind. Now, I do all I can to not go the doctor.
David, you’re a blessing. I learn so much from you and the guests you have on your show. Thank you so much for striving to educate and help us understand US history and current events. Keep up the amazing reporting. ✌🏻♥️😁
Britain had a single-payer health care system long before Maggie Thatcher came along. The National Healthcare service was inaugurated in July 1948. The lack of a similar system in this country is the drawback of living in the US.
Thom's got a great show. Please check it out folks!
David and Thom on the same show. My two favorite. Very knowledgeable well researched. I lived in Germany on and off during my militarily career and was amazed to learn that all Germans had health care and for only 4 dollars a month. There's got to a better way for the USA.💙🌹
I thought they had to pay higher taxes. My German friends told me they paid 8 euros a month. I guess that's in addition. Thanks. 😁
Germany seems to have a more rational head when it comes to things.
Ah David, you have great taste. Mr. Hartman is one of my favorite commentators.
Great to hear about the unbridled sadism throughout the US.
I hate paying 40% tax (Denmark).....until I get medic care and all education etc. for FREE
that line from ' inthe heat of the night' is valid here. I WILL LEAVE YOU TO YOURSELVES . between gun control and health care the US is best left to itself, it is a hopeless case, beyond help.
Denying healthcare based upon race is far beyond shameful.
I watch him already, this is a crossover I didn't expect
Really? Thom is one of David's early mentors.
@@terised I was raised in a conservative family and only rather recently became a leftist. That's why I didn't know. I am doing my best to educate myself further, as I was super politically active when I was conservative too so I am shaking off a bunch of bad ideas I had. Looking back on it makes me cringe, but I am sure future me thinks the same about me.
@@Unshackled.Dreamer Welcome to the Pakman family! Glad you were able to leave the dark side and come into the light.
I have a male relative, age 50, hard worker but lost his job for medical reasons, now has no coverage so can't see a doctor and recover his health, can't go back to work where maybe he could get coverage. There are no state-federal programs that cover males. This is insane.
Medicaid expansion if your state accepted it.
83 million in Germany, 67 million in France, just under 67 million in the UK and 446 million in the EU. Just a side note 😅
@cervellone I could see how the EU and US could be compared, as we do have a high degree of cooperation and coordination (and sort of similar population) - but including all of Europe starts to get a little iffy I'd say.
That being said - quite right.
That argument is finally put to rest. The free market had its chance.
The whole point behind the 1999 creation of the EU, with a combined population of roughly 450M, was to have a market big enough to better compete with the North American market of roughly 350M people (Canada/US).
@@cassieo4337 the EU was established in 1993. The EMU in 1999. The two are not the same.
@@thomaswikstrand8397 I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification. It was indeed the introduction of the Euro that occurred in '99. I remember the date well since I was working in the financial sector at that point and much effort went into prepping all our processes and systems for that final conversion of currencies replaced by the Euro. It was a big deal for this Canadian, but not nearly as a big a deal as it was for the nationals involved, I'm sure. Still, it was a hopeful time.
Yoooo, it’s my granddad and uncle just kickin it!
That was very educating
As per usual everything in America, including past and recent history, boils down to racism. White Americans have never wanted to share the wealth or the beauty of the country. C Berry Toronto
I’m a neurologist. Patients with “great health care” often lose their employer based health insurance when they lose their job because of neurological impairment. We REALLY need a single payor system.
@John Bradey
Awkward verbiage. Don’t quit your day job.
Yale study (Lancet): “Although health care expenditure per capita is higher in the USA than in any other country, more than 37 million Americans do not have health insurance, and 41 million more have inadequate access to care. Efforts are ongoing to repeal the Affordable Care Act which would exacerbate health-care inequities. By contrast, a universal system, such as that proposed in the Medicare for All Act, has the potential to transform the availability and efficiency of American health-care services. Taking into account both the costs of coverage expansion and the savings that would be achieved through the Medicare for All Act, we calculate that a single-payer, universal health-care system is likely to lead to a 13% savings in national health-care expenditure, equivalent to more than US$450 billion annually (based on the value of the US$ in 2017). The entire system could be funded with less financial outlay than is incurred by employers and households paying for health-care premiums combined with existing government allocations. This shift to single-payer health care would provide the greatest relief to lower-income households. Furthermore, we estimate that ensuring health-care access for all Americans would save more than 68 000 lives and 1·73 million life-years every year compared with the status quo.”
Good that you are a doctor, you may have some medicare patients, and yes when people lose there employment so does there insurance. with universal care you new wages will go from base of $250K to $405K or more for Vascular to a new wage of $90k to $115K. i hope you are ready!!!!
@@alanskinner7031
If that’s what it takes. But how did you calculate? I won’t have to worry about heath care executives getting multi million dollar bonuses and private jets or yachts. And healthcare debt won’t be the #1 reason for personal bankruptcy. Yes, I’m ready.
@@alanskinner7031
th-cam.com/video/17j7_c3R9hs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=rlnDoBbYw_jd1XDZ
@@kennethmoore3783 Universal care would have to take out the massive greed that is the medical system today. When we cut the wages of medical personnel by 75 percent that would be a good start. When doctors make the same wages an engineers do (Mech. Civil, Chemical) were on the right track.
For nations that have universal care look at their wages. The doctors in the UK, Canada, NZ and Australia. The doctors in the UK with the NHS just went on strike about a month ago over wages. A doctor with the NHS make about $110K a year. Same for Canada.
We had a doctor here in town that was Gp and his base salary was $490K a year, with no specialty at all. The insurance companies are a rip off too, the CEO of Cetene. A large fortune 500 company makes $27 million a year.
The medical industry and the IRS are the same, nothing but thieves!
Also a good read: Hartman's "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight"
the country cannot heal together unless there is health care for all..this creates a system whereby people will be more equal
And not feel so fractured .. we also need it especially for the PTSD aid the country due to covid..ty Thom Hartmann listener here..
Just checked out US cost of a two Epipen pack
US $350
UK £49.99 from a pharmacy or £9 as an NHS patient prescription.
Go figure why those with universal healthcare like it.
Thank you both so much for peeling away the layers of craziness that is happening to America and presenting the truthful facts and history. Stay safe!
Medicare-For-All would still be hugely profitable for the corporate healthcare industry, probably moreso than the present absurdly complex state of affairs.