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Just keeps getting better and better! Super excited to see what this year brings! On a side note, before you drop 30K on those Kef's would be awesome if you got your hands on the new SVS towers that have two sets of opposing subs/woofers each to see if they can come close to the Kef's for much less!!
John Curl covered the topic of distortion really well. He specifically cobered second, fifth, and seventh orders of distortion extensively. Not all distortions are unpleasant to the human ear, which is impart why a lot of people prefer the sound of tubes over ss. Very interesting stuff from a really interesting guy!
Keep it up Erin. I've always thought about getting a pair of Tektons. Your review made me want a set even more. Now, after hearing about what they are doing, I'll never even give them a listen. Dead to me. Shows the true colors of that company. We need to make sure this is never forgotten.
@@stevenneese2823 Hi Steven. I'm a 42 yr veteran speaker designer. Upon request, I took apart my friend's Double Impact speakers, because he wanted me to see the nightmare of tangled wiring. That led to me also seeing rather crappy cabinets. Poorly designed (over damped) bass cabinet section that is considerably too small of an airspace for the two 10" drivers. This can be easily heard, instantly when I walked into his room with them playing. And looking at all of the parts, and knowing the costs of everything, they are scary overpriced imo. He has a VERY nice system in a well treated, dedicated listening room. And they sounded terrible with different preamps, dacs, amps, etc. We placed them everywhere, to no avail. He sold them. And since that day, he's had probably 5 different speakers in the same room/system. All sounded great. I'm a speaker designer, and they just didn't sound good. They were just .... off. And with ALL respect to anyone this may offend, come listen to some of my speakers in NorCal. You'll understand.
The GOAT of audio reviews does it yet again. Erin, I hope you are able to get yourself a pair of those Blade 2s soon my friend, if anyone on earth deserves them it is you, the work you are doing for the community is appreciated by so many. Cheers & keep up the great work!
I completely agree that any product with a sub-out should have high-pass/low-pass built-in with an identified slope at this point. The higher the cost, the more flexibility you should get w/ crossover frequency, slope, phase etc. This would help solve the biggest problem with subwoofer integration; running the mains full-range and cancellation throughout the crossover region.
Adding my vote. Yes, if it has a subwoofer output but does NOT include a high pass filter for the mains, at the same frequency and at least a 12 dB per octave slope, or steeper, then I am disappointed and probably would not buy that equipment. That’s what I would do/not do. What others would choose is their business and that’s fine.
The whole point was that he was criticizing that one cheap amp for not having it. When the majority of amps in every price range lack this feature also. It's only very recently that we've begun to see amps add this feature. And honestly some of them really suck too. I saw a review the other day where it was locked at 150hz. My subs don't even go that high. Not that I would want them playing that high even if they did. I would much prefer that it's either fully adjustable. Or not at all. So I can get it exactly where I want it myself via my MiniDSP. But again that wasn't what people were complaining about. It was about him criticizing one little company for doing what's been done by every company for years now. ✌️
Actually I would be fine if it were set at one frequency too. But only if it were able to be turned off via a switch. Otherwise full signal is better IMO. A simple, and cheap capacitor on your mains (AKA Bass Blockers in car audio) can get it to the exact frequency you desire also. If DSP is too pricey. ✌️
@@amb3cog If you have a miniDSP you don't need a "sub-out", you just need a variable gain pre-out. A "sub-out" should be designed to assist in integrating a sub, which requires a high-pass/low-pass filter and ideally the ability to manage a few other variables. You're right that most integrated amps don't have this, but that's not a reason to not wish that the ones that do provide a 'sub-out' implement it correctly.
@@calebkeen8967 I'm well aware of what I need, and don't need. That's irrelevant to this conversation though. Especially since I use an SHD Studio. And don't want to have to use it. At it is. I don't use it much at all anyway. It's just part of my large collection of HiFi stuff. But this means I need a DAC also if I want to use it that way. Instead I use the preouts from my Exposure 3010S2D full range to my REL subs. And run my Kef's full range also. Works great. Flat down to just under 30hz in my small room. I prefer preouts over sub outs for versatility anyway. My point is. I don't want too much of my signal chopped off, because I cast get it back. But I can always remove easily and cheaply enough. It's my unit. I want control over it. Or I'm not buying it. Your opinion is different. That's fine. I've made my point. And you've made yours. But you're not going to convince me to change my mind, because to me your argument makes zero sense. And I'm sure you feel the same way about me. So let's not beat a dead horse here huh. And agree to disagree. Enjoy the music. ✌️
I think this black box approach is going to next level your channel big time. Good job. Looking forward to future comparison videos. Your data driven approach gives you more street cred from an "opinion" point of view imo.
I have a hypothesis that those who enjoy a tube amp tend to listen at a lower level and the amp provides a built in "loudness" curve. Tube amps, for the cost, have less power so the listening level is further limited. Tubes just look rad! I would like to add one to my system at some point.
It's about time someone reviewed this, I got mine for $270 open box and I really think it sounds good for the sound. I swapped out the front tubes and it made it sound much better, more bass, and louder.
@@lukewhile I switched just the tubes in the very front so far. I used GE -5654w . I just had to look them up. They are inexpensive but my friend used Russian tubes and he said they are even better. But I noticed a huge difference in just how loud it goes. Before I would turn it half way up to get a decent level. Now I get the same Db from.25 of the volume and also the bass is better. I want to change them all eventually. Good luck!
If I bought an integrated amplifier with a tube stage and it had a neutral response I would be disappointed If the tube implementation was to my liking then good As I recall this do have a tone control so turn turning the bass knob left may suffice This may be bad implementation for my tastes, or not There is a review of the HTA 100 on a popular subjective channel that was positive but that is a tube appreciation channel and I am in that class Your reviews are nice in bridging the gulf that exists between team ASR and the subjective reviewers who both make sense to me Great work on this review Thank You 🙏
The HTA200 has turned out to be a perfect match for my older MatinLogan Aerius 4ohm electrostatics that graduated to my master bedroom. I’m impressed with it. I’ll probably change out the fan with a quieter Noctua fan at some point since that can become audible at times, but great little amp for the money!
I agree, I too prefer amplifiers that have some type of high pass filter available when implementing a subwoofer. A low pass filter on the sub out is nice as well but not necessary since many subs have that option built in.
Great new direction with the blind comparisons! My buddy and I did blind test comparison of three different headphone amplifiers with Sennheiser HD650 headphones, and we could not tell a difference (p>0.05).
I bought the HTA 200 for my brother for his birthday he's using it with a pair of svs ultra bookshelf and it sounded amazing clear and strong.... There was absolutely no feedback or hum.... Don't forget to connect a ground (we connected his turntables ground!) which eliminated all noise... I was impressed!
Brilliant! Love the introduction of ABX Erin! I'm going to mention my own blind test of tube stuff. But first: I'm pro blind testing for the obvious scientific reasons. I don't think any audiophile HAS to bother blind testing, and often enough I can't be bothered. But when I really become curious if I'm hearing real differences or not I will do blind testing (level matched, randomized etc). So for instance I've blind tested CDPs and DACs (positive for differences), some well known audiophile AC cables (negative), high end video cables (negative), compared music servers (negative) and other items. I'm a tube amp kinda guy and have used Conrad Johnson monoblock tube amps for decades. I've also had a number of solid state amps in my system through the years to compare and every time I've preferred what to my ears was the richness and slight upper midrange/lower treble "sparkle" of the tube amps. I always thought it would be great to blind test the tube amps against the solid state but there was just no easy way to manage that. But I also have a CJ tube preamp and a while back bought a Benchmark LA4 ss preamp to dip my toes back in to more neutral waters. The Benchmark preamp has such a low noise floor I was able to route my CJ premp through it at unity gain, and with the Benchmark remote I could easily flip between the signal only through the Benchmark vs running through the CJ preamp. In sighted listening there seemed to be a very obvious sonic difference - similar to what I hear in my tube monoblocks. Fortunately this set up allowed me to easily do a blind test between them as I could use the Benchmark preamps volume to level match (also at speaker terminals) and with a helper we randomized switching (using an online random number generator) while I was blinded to the switching (my preamps are in a separate room from my listening room). Results from two trials was 14/15 and 15/15 correct for identifying the tube preamp. And I identified the tube amp via exactly the sonic characteristics I had heard in my sighted listening. I don't therefore assume all tube equipment is similarly identifiable and there's so much room for bias effects "those glowing tubes will make the sound 'warm.'" But it was interesting in at least this case that the "warmth/upper mid glow" characteristics that I'd always loved seemed to translate in the blind tests as well.
Impressive, only you results with a tube amplifier are 100% expected as your test did not include _matching_ of the frequency responses of the amplifiers (note Richard Clarc allows to choose which amp will be matched to which, so the "looser" cheap amp gets the ugly DSP processor or any form of EQ attached to it). If you can measure that both frequency responses match to within
@@SDX9000 I'm somewhat confused by your comment. Why would one want to match the frequency response between amplifiers? If there is a frequency response difference through a speaker between two amplification devices, that's just the type of thing we'd want to know, and in principle could be identified in a blind test. In other words: using one amp would sound different from the other. What am I missing?
@@QuintEssential-sz2wn The reason to match frequency responses is grounded on the expectation that: If a "cool", expensive, special AMP1 is truly special, then it should be more than just a slight frequency response difference. Therefore Richard Clarc's test matches volume not just at one frequency, but at all frequencies (that's the effect of EQ). Notably it gives an ADVANTAGE to the "cool_AMP1" by adding a cheap, simplistic DSP or EQ into the signal chain of the "undesirble_AMP2". So, after equalization ABX test would surely reveal that: "cool_AMP1" still sounds clearly different (likely better) than "undesirble_AMP2" that is extra-impaired by "not_broken_EQ" to match frequency response to the pristine "cool_AMP1". See more details here: web.archive.org/web/20130716171611/tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall
I use to own a PrimaLuna amplifier and they were fun to watch at night, and the sound would get better with a brandy! 😂😅 Love your channel! Tube amplifier are definitely more for the look than quality of the sound adding speakers than also measure all over the place might benefit!
Love how you are constantly keeping yourself honest with this new blind A/B testing in your subjective testing, as when it comes to audio it is so easy for any of us to catch ourselves validating what we think we hear. I actually have one of these units on the way already (sucker for the vu meter and the tubes) and so found your analysis really interesting. I guess since you didn't notice the bump in the higher frequencies as much this might be due to the speaker profile already having a strong enough high frequency output. I am currently considering getting a pair of lintons and I wonder if that uptick in the higher frequency would be more noticeable in a speaker like that where there is a strong rolloff of the higher frequencies. I get the impression that they could pair well together assuming the bass bump isn't too much.
Say you use EQ to approximate the same frequency response changes that tube amps make. Do you think you would be able to tell the difference between a tube amp and EQ in a blind test?
In a world where it's easier than ever to add powerful digital filters to your sound chain I just find it hard to understand how much people are willing to pay for products that's only trick is to add their own brand of coloration to the sound. Tube amps maybe a bit of a special case because of the distortion characteristics that might be a bit more difficult to add, but frequency not so much.
I bought one over a year ago and rolled the tubes and it's sounds so much better with better tubes, it's has tone controls so you can just adjust it easily. For $350 it's a great little amp.
Come on Erin this is the best amplifier, the funky response adds tube character, the horrendous noise floor adds more character, and the THD is the cherry on top 😂.
Sorry that happened, good they took care of you. They have excellent service, never an issue but they reached out to me when I left a review and mentioned I had a store. Very professional and courteous. Glad you found something that works for you, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the Dayton. I’d like to see an updated model, maybe a more detailed screen, a/b outputs, maybe a couple more RCA inputs, nothing major, but for the price I’m still constantly impressed with the quality. Going on over a year now with 10 hours use every day with no issues.
Really glad your HTA200 is all that. Read another comment another guy had the same volume issue I did. He also sent it back. Stuff happens. Bad batches with said possible substituted components can cause this during factory amp builds. The AV 525 has no chrome so a lot easier to keep clean. Do like the looks of the HTA200 better though.
Erin, you are not the only one-I have said on ASR for years that the “warm” sound ascribed to tube amps is not due to any kind of “euphonic” distortion but rather is due to their frequency response deviations, and possibly damping factor. Not sure if you read those posts on ASR, though.
Thanks Erin. Did you also listen for other sonic differences between the three amplifiers in the blind testing…soundstage width and depth, image specificity, overall resolution, etc?
Honestly, the bass stood out so much that it eclipsed my attention for listening to any other differences. Maybe if I had EQ’d them to not have the bass profile I might have heard other differences but I can’t be certain.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Amen! please run it throuhg a Richard Clark amplifier challenge routine (using the cheapest miniDSP or other EQ box to quickly match the response curves of a reference amp to the response of the warm device under test)
Awesome review! I love it when a reviewer explains WHY a component sounds the way it does rather than just telling us how it sounds and therefore if its a good or not so good product. Subjective reviewers that dont include the techincal aspects of the components influence on the sound just dont do it for me.
I've had the HTA200 for about eight months now, and I think it's a fantastic amp! It's super versatile, you can bypass the internal DAC, you can also bypass the tube preamp stage by using the RCA in. I'm using it with some 6ohm Sony bookshelf speakers and it sounds great. For critical listening I have a more serious setup, but for everyday listening, the HTA gets a lot of use here, and it has lots of power (class AB amp)! I agree that it looks cool too, I always get compliments on it. I just picked up the WiiM Ultra, what a great preamp/DAC/streamer!
I think a good idea for maybe a future video is to test the Dayton HTA200 vs a neutral amp but with EQ applied to match the frequency response of the HTA200. Basically, I would love to know if 2 amps that have the same FR (EQed to match the same FR) will sound the same in an ABX test.
We did a test like this when I was at university, and when matched tor level and frequency response, and not driven into clipping, nobody could hear the difference under ABX testing. @ErinsAudioCorner
@@markpocock183 Thank you for feedback. I always wondered what about the hiss? Supposedly up to 2% THD is not a problem, but the hiss during quiet moments should be noticeable on some amplifiers and in-audible on others? What would be a threshold for noise floor then?
The fact that you could easily hear that bump in the bottom end, but not hear the bump in response at the top end, is why I always tell people not to worry about response characteristics of speakers above ~4Khz. Bulk of musical energy and ear sensitivity is from ~40hz - 4Khz. Everything above that is just the "air" of other sounds with lower fundamentals. Big response variation in the top 2 octaves can generally be ignored. medium response variations above 2khz are also pretty inconsequential, small response variations from ~100-1000hz will be apparent and change the "signature" of the sound, as this is where almost all vocal energy lives, and lots of instruments. Many of the best sounding speakers out there sound great because they are flat and clean ~100-1,000hz while having less than ideal looking response outside of this range.
Hmm, Sean Olive has commented on several occasions that in Harman listening training people often confuse bass-boost with treble-cut and the like. It is natural that people react to the overall slope and do not care about all subtleties if the difference is already obvious. Your conclusion would be supported only in case Erin would EQ-out the bass-boost-part and then still fail to detect the difference in treble.
I have the Klipsch RP8000s and RP5000s. I have been into audio all my life and Home Theater for almost 30 years. I have no idea if they are designed to go against the wall or not because I can't find that information. So I just put them where they need to go and move them if I am not happy with the performance. Manufacturers should definitely put out more information on their products.
I really wish he did more of a review on how he likes the way it sounds, I get it about the bass boost but why just focus on the boost especially when it has tone control, which I like because not all recordings are equal and I'm not one of those people that thinks " the artist attended it to sound" because most of them were coked out of their minds 😂. I like to be able to change the tone and maybe they did that to give a sense that it is the tube sound. But we get it it's colored but what about the rest of the review?
I had this amp for a few weeks. It developed low volume output. I sent it back and bought the AV 525 and married it with the Douk audio T3 Plus phono pre amp and it is still awesome after only a month and a half roughly and daily usage minimum 5 hours a day. I rarely even have to use the amps tone controls. Bass is more controlled and the sound is amazing for a hybrid tube amp! PLUS the remote is a million times better than the HTA200. Sounds incredible with my vintage AR XA turntable and a vintage Shure V15 III cartridge. This AV 525 amp also has better specs. An 8 ohms load speaker pair ( = 70 watts per channel ). I hooked up (2) pairs of vintage awesome 8 ohm speakers in parallel to get me the 4 ohms load for the new amp. Now I have about 80 watts per channel peaks. The ( AV 525 ) is a smoking great amp for the price point. I love it! Then it got even better! I ran a Y cable out to (2) Yamaha 6.5 " powered matching sub-woofers via the single sub output RCA jack on the back of the amp. Super nice! I am done. My system sounds awesome! The built in DAC is quite good to Bluetooth wise. I rarely use it for I am a record maniac but still very respectable musically streaming TH-cam when I do. This is a super clean sounding amplifier period with balls and a great sound stage. 1950's jazz mono LP's are a real treat to!
A high fidelity amplifier which adds bass boost and treble boost is no longer high fidelity to me tbh. It's more an amp with equalisation which you cannot turn off. Seems alot of purists are adding equalisation by changing amps instead of just getting DSP from the start.
Nice honest review. The down side for me is the fan for cooling. I had the fan on a different Dayton amp fail on me once which caused overheating so now I’m skeptical of the fan build quality.
It has tone control so all the talk about the extra bass , if you can adjust it. I'm a big fan of tone control because some recordings might need a little more tremble or bass etc. And this amp really sounds good, i switched the tubes and it sounds 40% better.
@@Audiomainia2310 the 2 front little ones, I changed them out with GE tubes on Amazon and I can hear a huge difference. But I someone I know used them and then he switched to more expensive Russian tubes and he said they were even better, someone else on here said he swapped out all the tubes and I asked him and I am waiting for a response, when I find out I will lyk
@@ericembry3674 the two little ones in the front I rolled with GE tubes I found on Amazon and I can hear a big difference, it even got a lot louder, and my friend got Russian tubes I am not sure what he got but he likes them even better than the GE which was only $15 so I am sure if get golden lions or something they will sound even better, I want to roll the rest, I have just been to busy to think about it right now.
Hi Erin thanks for the great review. So good to hear that you are going to review a wider range of audio equipment and are able to do real AB testing, a first among reviewers I believe. You are quite rightly banging on about hi pass filters so is there any chance of you reviewing another Dayton Audio amplifier the DTA-100ST. Keep up the great work.
You are the only one of the "objectivist" reviewers I trust. Thank you for your thorough and fair-minded reviews. You always correlate your measurements with the subjective listening experience. This being said, I had considered buying this amp but the mid-bass hump is a deal breaker for me. As you said, 1.5 db would not seem to be a lot but your review suggests that it is audible. Nonetheless, this amp may work great in the right system and is an exceptional bargain at $350. I wonder if the HTA-100 would be more neutral. Another review did not observe any mid-bass coloration in this lower powered amp.
I became rather puzzuled about this review. So the Dayton amp was easily recognized because of a bass bump in the response curve. But what would happen if you turned the bass knob a few clicks to the left? Did the amp sound like a expensive tube amp? Did it distort at high volume? How does it compare to a similar priced class-d amp?
Erin, be careful with what you say. You don't wanna get sued. LOL! Erin, I had a chance to hear this amp power a pair of Dayton DIY kit tower speakers with custom crossovers and I was SHOCKED at the quality of sound from that system from the deep bass to the twinkling highs. This amp can do great things with the right speakers. I sure wish i had the money to copy the system I heard a couple weeks ago. Dang it was great!!
That slightly tilted smilely eq must be deliberately implemented. Wonder if analog or digital domain? Items like this are just fun, life is short, get a quirky chinesium tube integrated if it makes you happy. Hp on mains is like the best part of using a sub though
Great review as always Erin! Forgive me for my lack of technical knowledge here but I have a few questions. It seemed like the Daytons clipping point was a lot more linear and smooth. Is it fair to say that speakers that clip more easily would benefit from that characteristic? Also, would you consider trying another ABX test with the bass and treble adjusted to a more flat response? I’m really curious if the power/THD and dominant 2nd order distortion would be enough on their own to distinguish the amps sound. If not, thanks anyway for all the time and research you already put in. In the meantime I’ll check out the other review you referred to. Thanks again
Ok, so o read the review from soundstagenetwork. I think I found something interesting. I’m not an expert in audio, and I could be totally misinterpreting this measurement. So admittedly, I’m literally talking out of my A** here. But the writer, says this: “The HTA200 appears to invert polarity and yields an astonishing -60000 degrees of phase shift at 20kHz”. My interpretation is; that the tube stage can’t reconcile any information above 20kHz and reverses phase of any signal above 20kHz. This would explain why these tube preamps seem to work magic on the soundstage. They buffer out high frequency distortion, allowing you to really push a speaker to its limits without it sounding shrill or sibilant. Also, possibly providing a larger soundstage.
Excellent point. When frequency response is so obviously "creatively shaped", all other aspects will be near-impossible to assess unless the frequency response is EQ-ed out of the equation.
Man i love it that you have the ABX component. I kinda feel like tube equipment in general gets a bad rap or is misunderstood by the "measurements" crowd. Granted i like my low noise linear components but i love some tube gear as well. This Dayton amp wasn't too bad..nice wattage for the money if it pairs well with something you already own.
Absolutely love that you're blind testing. I find that i enjoy blind testing the subjective parts of the review more than the graphs and lines. If in future reviews you could time stamp this part of the review I'll go straight to it.
Dollars to doughnuts says they baked this in to sound “warm” and “tube like”. The analog inputs are digitized and I’d guess this curve is baked in with DSP. There’s no inherent reason why the tube stage would have this non flat curve.
Indeed, I believe you may be right. SoundStage’s review found they digitize the inputs. So maybe it is DSP doing the heavy lifting of the “warm sound” here. 🤔
Id be interested in seeing a test on a tube amp with tubes on the actual output. Then we can see how tubes interact with the load a speaker presents. I can’t help thinking tubes on the preamp seem kind of fake (?)
Subscribed due to your HONEST reviews. Get ready for your subscribers to explode due to Tektons bullying. Really appreciate the A/B testing equipment, maybe in the future you can test some DACs too. Been very curious of tube amps for years.
The integral of the low frequency energy under that curve is massive and would be audible on any decent speaker. I would really prefer to see a good AB test (ABX actually) with two amps of similar performance.
Thanks Erin, great review. You described the AB comparison...did you use the X? I assume it has it, where you know A and B but don't know what X is, and try to match it to either A or B. Perhaps, in this case the difference was so obvious it was not necessary, but for subtle differences this is a great way of proving you dud (or did not) hear a difference.
Amplifiers unquestionably sound different. There will be similarities, but the differences will be noticeable. Will be the reason you choose amp-A over amp-B! For over 20 years, the beating heart of my Hi-fi system was my trusty old British integrated. That amp is still in current production, though now sports a remote control, mine doesn’t. I recently took that British integrated amp to the local dealer to be returned to the manufacturer to be refurbished. When it came back into the dealer, they persuaded me to audition the 2 amplifiers higher up in the manufacturer’s integrated range. I agreed to the audition providing it was totally blind. Within seconds of the first track, being played through the first amp, I knew, unquestionably that, that amp was my trusty 20 year old. I was right. I was also able to identify the other 2 amps with a 100% success rate. I have more recently seriously upgraded my amplification. I’m using 1 premium preamp to control 2 pairs of monoblocks. I can run them concurrently, or separately. The difference in sonic signature from each pair of monoblocks is unmistakable!
Great review, I'm learning a lot. I can't place my speakers against the wall because of furniture and a fireplace ( 2 different rooms), but I don't think I'd buy a specific amp to compensate for bass loss because it. I have always been concerned when I hear a component needs to be matched to another specific component for best sound.
Perhaps your perception of the high freq contour was impacted by filter Q. The LF boost is nearly four octaves wide. Whereas the HF boost is under two octaves wide. Our perception is more adept at low level broad EQ'ing, rather than higher level, narrow EQ'ing. What a cool piece, you've gotta love Dayton.
Thanks loads. +1 on the sub out with no satellite filter. It's why I moved away from the 2.1 chip amps. I have a Dayton 8" kit built DSP subwoofer in my PC nearfield system. That sub extracts the lows and sends the rest on to the satellite amp. You might consider testing that kit or one of their DSP sub amps. They can be adjusted on the fly with a Windows PC GUI. Very cool. Especially since the lack of a satellite filter bugs you as it does me.
you could try a nulltest. get a high to low level converter hooked to the amp output in parallel to the speakers and record whats going out. record another amp the same way at same level. overlap both in a audio program, invert one track and listen to whats actually different.
i am a total audiophile newcomer but i became intrigued with tube amplifiers so purchased the HTA200 which i just set up with a pair of Klipsch RB61 (8-ohm 95-dB sensitivity) and BT source … i noticed right away that the VU meters don’t move at all volume at the 9 oclock position and only become active (a little) way past the 12 oclock mark and then volume isn’t all that loud (volume max on my iphone) …. is this normal ⁉️ i think the sound quality is good but i have no real points of reference ALSO i’ve run acouple hours and the fan never kick on …. is that normal ⁉️
Great video! I purchased the HTA200 about 8 months ago and I really am enjoying it. I am using some Fluance speakers at the moment, but would like to try my Polk Audio SDA1c's which need a common ground amp. Do you know if the HTA200 is a common ground amp? I tried contacting Dayton audio on this question but never really got an answer. Thanks in advance.
Thanks, how audioble is the fan? Also maybe you can review a pro amp like Crest or Beringer. Audiophiles don't like them so much but in my experience they are great vfm.
Say you use EQ to approximate the same frequency response changes that tube amps make. Do you think you would be able to tell the difference between a tube amp and EQ in a blind test?
I don’t know for sure but I’d say probably not. The difference I heard here was in the bass/lower midrange. I didn’t hear any changes in soundstage. But I suppose it’s possible if the clearly different response profiles were made to be the same. Though, I doubt it.
@@ErinsAudioCornerinteresting, I thought the point of the tubes was to add euphonic 2nd order distortion to create this holographic sound (? Deeper wider soundstage)
Been owning the HTA 200 close to 2 years now and its a steal. I use it on a pair of Faital 3WC 10 by DIY builder Troels Gravesen. These are 3 way speakers with 10" woofer and a sensitivity at 91 dB. The cost is 2,5 - 3 K$. When l finished the kits, l first tried some 6 - 8 amplifiers among them a Musical Fidelity 225 and a Line Magnetic 216ia. But none of them could match the HTA 200. The midrange magic and the 3 dimetionality. Could it be that the designer of the speakers love tubeamps?
Great review, I was going to buy one. Im thinking that I'll pass on that now. I will save the money and apply it towards my next set of speakers. Thanks Erin.
I have one, it has tone controls and you just adjust it a little. I rolled the tubes and it sounds 40% better. It has maybe a 1 db bump . He didn't talk about anything negative except a tiny bump that no one would ever be able to hear and if you do turn the bass down, it's $350 and worth it
@@anthonymiriello5029 I have a crown drive core I use for my subwoofer but I sometimes use it for 2 channel stereo and it grips the bass and I know what you mean by clean. My speakers a little warm and have really good bass . I designed them myself. What kind of class d are you using because I was thinking about building a kit. Some people don't like it but I think maybe with a tube pre amp it would sound really good
Erin, I would love to hear about your experience buying from AVA. And would love to see you review some of their amps. The SET 120, and the new NP1/CA1 amps in particular. Both of which use unique circuit designs. ✌️
The thing about tube amps is distortion - it's a great distortion on the even low harmonics. Tubes create a distortion that's on the 2nd and 4th harmonics - those coincide with the one and two octaves above. George Gershwin wrote piano rolls early in his career. The player pianos had short strings because a lot of the space was occupied by the mechanics - and that made the sound kinda dull. A trick Gershwin used was adding 2nd and 3rd octave notes - and that made the sound better. Gershwin used tube distortion before tubes were ever around!
Why would the design have both triodes and high frequency(RF) pentode both in the preamp portion? The 6K4 tubes are mostly used in old Soviet era RF electronics. Weird.
some speakers i use i had to adjust height to get lower frequencies while others sound great just on the floor but almost never manufactures tell you how to properly use them I had to figure that out
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Just keeps getting better and better! Super excited to see what this year brings! On a side note, before you drop 30K on those Kef's would be awesome if you got your hands on the new SVS towers that have two sets of opposing subs/woofers each to see if they can come close to the Kef's for much less!!
John Curl covered the topic of distortion really well. He specifically cobered second, fifth, and seventh orders of distortion extensively.
Not all distortions are unpleasant to the human ear, which is impart why a lot of people prefer the sound of tubes over ss.
Very interesting stuff from a really interesting guy!
Keep it up Erin. I've always thought about getting a pair of Tektons. Your review made me want a set even more. Now, after hearing about what they are doing, I'll never even give them a listen. Dead to me. Shows the true colors of that company. We need to make sure this is never forgotten.
@@stevenneese2823 Hi Steven. I'm a 42 yr veteran speaker designer.
Upon request, I took apart my friend's Double Impact speakers, because he wanted me to see the nightmare of tangled wiring.
That led to me also seeing rather crappy cabinets. Poorly designed (over damped) bass cabinet section that is considerably too small of an airspace for the two 10" drivers. This can be easily heard, instantly when I walked into his room with them playing.
And looking at all of the parts, and knowing the costs of everything, they are scary overpriced imo.
He has a VERY nice system in a well treated, dedicated listening room. And they sounded terrible with different preamps, dacs, amps, etc. We placed them everywhere, to no avail.
He sold them. And since that day, he's had probably 5 different speakers in the same room/system. All sounded great.
I'm a speaker designer, and they just didn't sound good.
They were just .... off. And with ALL respect to anyone this may offend, come listen to some of my speakers in NorCal. You'll understand.
What’s happening with tekton ?
@@flash4973threatening reviewers with lawsuits, if I remember correctly
This was honestly the best amp review I've ever seen
Oh dang! Well, thank you!!
The GOAT of audio reviews does it yet again. Erin, I hope you are able to get yourself a pair of those Blade 2s soon my friend, if anyone on earth deserves them it is you, the work you are doing for the community is appreciated by so many.
Cheers & keep up the great work!
Wow. Thank you for the mighty high compliment!
I completely agree that any product with a sub-out should have high-pass/low-pass built-in with an identified slope at this point. The higher the cost, the more flexibility you should get w/ crossover frequency, slope, phase etc. This would help solve the biggest problem with subwoofer integration; running the mains full-range and cancellation throughout the crossover region.
Adding my vote. Yes, if it has a subwoofer output but does NOT include a high pass filter for the mains, at the same frequency and at least a 12 dB per octave slope, or steeper, then I am disappointed and probably would not buy that equipment. That’s what I would do/not do. What others would choose is their business and that’s fine.
The whole point was that he was criticizing that one cheap amp for not having it. When the majority of amps in every price range lack this feature also.
It's only very recently that we've begun to see amps add this feature. And honestly some of them really suck too.
I saw a review the other day where it was locked at 150hz. My subs don't even go that high. Not that I would want them playing that high even if they did.
I would much prefer that it's either fully adjustable. Or not at all. So I can get it exactly where I want it myself via my MiniDSP.
But again that wasn't what people were complaining about. It was about him criticizing one little company for doing what's been done by every company for years now. ✌️
Actually I would be fine if it were set at one frequency too. But only if it were able to be turned off via a switch. Otherwise full signal is better IMO.
A simple, and cheap capacitor on your mains (AKA Bass Blockers in car audio) can get it to the exact frequency you desire also. If DSP is too pricey. ✌️
@@amb3cog If you have a miniDSP you don't need a "sub-out", you just need a variable gain pre-out. A "sub-out" should be designed to assist in integrating a sub, which requires a high-pass/low-pass filter and ideally the ability to manage a few other variables. You're right that most integrated amps don't have this, but that's not a reason to not wish that the ones that do provide a 'sub-out' implement it correctly.
@@calebkeen8967 I'm well aware of what I need, and don't need. That's irrelevant to this conversation though. Especially since I use an SHD Studio. And don't want to have to use it. At it is. I don't use it much at all anyway. It's just part of my large collection of HiFi stuff.
But this means I need a DAC also if I want to use it that way. Instead I use the preouts from my Exposure 3010S2D full range to my REL subs. And run my Kef's full range also. Works great. Flat down to just under 30hz in my small room. I prefer preouts over sub outs for versatility anyway.
My point is. I don't want too much of my signal chopped off, because I cast get it back. But I can always remove easily and cheaply enough. It's my unit. I want control over it. Or I'm not buying it.
Your opinion is different. That's fine. I've made my point. And you've made yours. But you're not going to convince me to change my mind, because to me your argument makes zero sense. And I'm sure you feel the same way about me.
So let's not beat a dead horse here huh. And agree to disagree. Enjoy the music. ✌️
I think this black box approach is going to next level your channel big time. Good job. Looking forward to future comparison videos. Your data driven approach gives you more street cred from an "opinion" point of view imo.
Nice to see additional coverage of Dayton Audio components. Audio system technology developer here
I have a hypothesis that those who enjoy a tube amp tend to listen at a lower level and the amp provides a built in "loudness" curve. Tube amps, for the cost, have less power so the listening level is further limited. Tubes just look rad! I would like to add one to my system at some point.
Seems plausible.
That's a hybrid so it has a tube pre amp and a b power amp of 100 watts. But it has tone control so you just lower it a little . I think he has OCD
It's about time someone reviewed this, I got mine for $270 open box and I really think it sounds good for the sound. I swapped out the front tubes and it made it sound much better, more bass, and louder.
What tubes did you upgrade to? I’m thinking about getting one and would love to play around with different tubes
@@lukewhile I switched just the tubes in the very front so far. I used GE -5654w . I just had to look them up. They are inexpensive but my friend used Russian tubes and he said they are even better. But I noticed a huge difference in just how loud it goes. Before I would turn it half way up to get a decent level. Now I get the same Db from.25 of the volume and also the bass is better. I want to change them all eventually. Good luck!
@@BostonMike68can you link or share the names of the tubes used ?
@@MrWilander88GE-5654W
Brand new unopened for 279 with free shipping
Erin, you are the best. We all love you. Remember this ALWAYS
Thanks! I like the addition of the ABX comparator. Curious of the difference you'll hear with a real tube amp with an output transformer.
Thanks! I look forward to other opportunities like this as well!
I just read about the Tekton saga, I am so sorry. He is a bully. You are role model in the community, Erin!
Erin good to see a new review from you. Love how you do your blind testing. Keep soaring like an eagle above the turkeys and rock on!
Great channel mate. No one else is doing humble, scientific/subjective reviews like this. Keep it up
I was always curious about the HTA. It's a cool looking amp. Nice to see you review it
I own one, it sounds really good and it has tone control so you can adjust the bass.
Thanks!
Thank you!
If I bought an integrated amplifier with a tube stage and it had a neutral response I would be disappointed
If the tube implementation was to my liking then good
As I recall this do have a tone control so turn turning the bass knob left may suffice
This may be bad implementation for my tastes, or not
There is a review of the HTA 100 on a popular subjective channel that was positive but that is a tube appreciation channel and I am in that class
Your reviews are nice in bridging the gulf that exists between team ASR and the subjective reviewers who both make sense to me
Great work on this review
Thank You 🙏
Adding comment to help with the YT algorithm, because this channel has outstanding quality content.
Commenting your comment for the same reason.🙂
@@thomaslutro5560 I second this discussion 😸
Love the blind test process! Great reviews, thanks Erin!
I've always loved the look of tube amps. Like you said, they just look cool!
Great review Erin! Love that ABx addition. Really makes your reviews stand out vs. other reviewers. Great work!
Thanks so much!
The HTA200 has turned out to be a perfect match for my older MatinLogan Aerius 4ohm electrostatics that graduated to my master bedroom. I’m impressed with it. I’ll probably change out the fan with a quieter Noctua fan at some point since that can become audible at times, but great little amp for the money!
What size is the fan?
I agree, I too prefer amplifiers that have some type of high pass filter available when implementing a subwoofer. A low pass filter on the sub out is nice as well but not necessary since many subs have that option built in.
Great new direction with the blind comparisons! My buddy and I did blind test comparison of three different headphone amplifiers with Sennheiser HD650 headphones, and we could not tell a difference (p>0.05).
Can't wait for the fosi mono test
Thank you so much for this data. It helped me make my purchasing decision.
I bought the HTA 200 for my brother for his birthday he's using it with a pair of svs ultra bookshelf and it sounded amazing clear and strong.... There was absolutely no feedback or hum.... Don't forget to connect a ground (we connected his turntables ground!) which eliminated all noise... I was impressed!
I hope there will be more blindtest content in the future - especially between solid state amplifiers 🔥
That's the plan!
@@ErinsAudioCorner The work of god! 👏👏
How about comparing cables? That is, if you really want hate mail!😂
Brilliant! Love the introduction of ABX Erin! I'm going to mention my own blind test of tube stuff. But first: I'm pro blind testing for the obvious scientific reasons. I don't think any audiophile HAS to bother blind testing, and often enough I can't be bothered. But when I really become curious if I'm hearing real differences or not I will do blind testing (level matched, randomized etc). So for instance I've blind tested CDPs and DACs (positive for differences), some well known audiophile AC cables (negative), high end video cables (negative), compared music servers (negative) and other items.
I'm a tube amp kinda guy and have used Conrad Johnson monoblock tube amps for decades. I've also had a number of solid state amps in my system through the years to compare and every time I've preferred what to my ears was the richness and slight upper midrange/lower treble "sparkle" of the tube amps. I always thought it would be great to blind test the tube amps against the solid state but there was just no easy way to manage that.
But I also have a CJ tube preamp and a while back bought a Benchmark LA4 ss preamp to dip my toes back in to more neutral waters. The Benchmark preamp has such a low noise floor I was able to route my CJ premp through it at unity gain, and with the Benchmark remote I could easily flip between the signal only through the Benchmark vs running through the CJ preamp. In sighted listening there seemed to be a very obvious sonic difference - similar to what I hear in my tube monoblocks. Fortunately this set up allowed me to easily do a blind test between them as I could use the Benchmark preamps volume to level match (also at speaker terminals) and with a helper we randomized switching (using an online random number generator) while I was blinded to the switching (my preamps are in a separate room from my listening room). Results from two trials was 14/15 and 15/15 correct for identifying the tube preamp. And I identified the tube amp via exactly the sonic characteristics I had heard in my sighted listening.
I don't therefore assume all tube equipment is similarly identifiable and there's so much room for bias effects "those glowing tubes will make the sound 'warm.'" But it was interesting in at least this case that the "warmth/upper mid glow" characteristics that I'd always loved seemed to translate in the blind tests as well.
Impressive, only you results with a tube amplifier are 100% expected as your test did not include _matching_ of the frequency responses of the amplifiers (note Richard Clarc allows to choose which amp will be matched to which, so the "looser" cheap amp gets the ugly DSP processor or any form of EQ attached to it). If you can measure that both frequency responses match to within
@@SDX9000 I'm somewhat confused by your comment. Why would one want to match the frequency response between amplifiers? If there is a frequency response difference through a speaker between two amplification devices, that's just the type of thing we'd want to know, and in principle could be identified in a blind test. In other words: using one amp would sound different from the other. What am I missing?
@@QuintEssential-sz2wn The reason to match frequency responses is grounded on the expectation that:
If a "cool", expensive, special AMP1 is truly special, then it should be more than just a slight frequency response difference. Therefore Richard Clarc's test matches volume not just at one frequency, but at all frequencies (that's the effect of EQ). Notably it gives an ADVANTAGE to the "cool_AMP1" by adding a cheap, simplistic DSP or EQ into the signal chain of the "undesirble_AMP2". So, after equalization ABX test would surely reveal that:
"cool_AMP1" still sounds clearly different (likely better) than "undesirble_AMP2" that is extra-impaired by "not_broken_EQ" to match frequency response to the pristine "cool_AMP1".
See more details here: web.archive.org/web/20130716171611/tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall
Keep up the good work. Do what is right. Don’t anybody intimidate you. Weak people threat strong people survive. Stay strong.
I use to own a PrimaLuna amplifier and they were fun to watch at night, and the sound would get better with a brandy! 😂😅 Love your channel!
Tube amplifier are definitely more for the look than quality of the sound adding speakers than also measure all over the place might benefit!
"I didn't forget me saying that..." 😎 You dropped this, king: 👑
Love how you are constantly keeping yourself honest with this new blind A/B testing in your subjective testing, as when it comes to audio it is so easy for any of us to catch ourselves validating what we think we hear. I actually have one of these units on the way already (sucker for the vu meter and the tubes) and so found your analysis really interesting. I guess since you didn't notice the bump in the higher frequencies as much this might be due to the speaker profile already having a strong enough high frequency output. I am currently considering getting a pair of lintons and I wonder if that uptick in the higher frequency would be more noticeable in a speaker like that where there is a strong rolloff of the higher frequencies. I get the impression that they could pair well together assuming the bass bump isn't too much.
I would want one of these just because it looks cool, but I would still use DSP.
Say you use EQ to approximate the same frequency response changes that tube amps make. Do you think you would be able to tell the difference between a tube amp and EQ in a blind test?
In a world where it's easier than ever to add powerful digital filters to your sound chain I just find it hard to understand how much people are willing to pay for products that's only trick is to add their own brand of coloration to the sound. Tube amps maybe a bit of a special case because of the distortion characteristics that might be a bit more difficult to add, but frequency not so much.
I think you should develop a TSP (Tube signal processor) to keep it legit
@@BriBCG I think they just look cool. DSP is to "fix" what it does to the sound. :-)
I bought one over a year ago and rolled the tubes and it's sounds so much better with better tubes, it's has tone controls so you can just adjust it easily. For $350 it's a great little amp.
Well now it’s back ordered till May. See what you did lol. 100% will always buy what you recommend now.
Oh, it was already sold out and not expected back in stock until 05/03.
@@ErinsAudioCorner lol and now on Amazon it shows $459.00. Of course
Come on Erin this is the best amplifier, the funky response adds tube character, the horrendous noise floor adds more character, and the THD is the cherry on top 😂.
It's actually a really good sounding amp
Sorry that happened, good they took care of you. They have excellent service, never an issue but they reached out to me when I left a review and mentioned I had a store. Very professional and courteous. Glad you found something that works for you, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the Dayton. I’d like to see an updated model, maybe a more detailed screen, a/b outputs, maybe a couple more RCA inputs, nothing major, but for the price I’m still constantly impressed with the quality. Going on over a year now with 10 hours use every day with no issues.
Really glad your HTA200 is all that. Read another comment another guy had the same volume issue I did. He also sent it back. Stuff happens. Bad batches with said possible substituted components can cause this during factory amp builds. The AV 525 has no chrome so a lot easier to keep clean. Do like the looks of the HTA200 better though.
Parts Express is one of the few companies left with real service.
Just the best talking with you. Thank you greatly.
Erin, you are not the only one-I have said on ASR for years that the “warm” sound ascribed to tube amps is not due to any kind of “euphonic” distortion but rather is due to their frequency response deviations, and possibly damping factor. Not sure if you read those posts on ASR, though.
Thanks Erin. Did you also listen for other sonic differences between the three amplifiers in the blind testing…soundstage width and depth, image specificity, overall resolution, etc?
Honestly, the bass stood out so much that it eclipsed my attention for listening to any other differences. Maybe if I had EQ’d them to not have the bass profile I might have heard other differences but I can’t be certain.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Amen! please run it throuhg a Richard Clark amplifier challenge routine (using the cheapest miniDSP or other EQ box to quickly match the response curves of a reference amp to the response of the warm device under test)
Awesome review! I love it when a reviewer explains WHY a component sounds the way it does rather than just telling us how it sounds and therefore if its a good or not so good product. Subjective reviewers that dont include the techincal aspects of the components influence on the sound just dont do it for me.
That's why they put tone controls on it. I don't think it's a good review of how good this thing actually sounds
I've had the HTA200 for about eight months now, and I think it's a fantastic amp! It's super versatile, you can bypass the internal DAC, you can also bypass the tube preamp stage by using the RCA in. I'm using it with some 6ohm Sony bookshelf speakers and it sounds great. For critical listening I have a more serious setup, but for everyday listening, the HTA gets a lot of use here, and it has lots of power (class AB amp)! I agree that it looks cool too, I always get compliments on it. I just picked up the WiiM Ultra, what a great preamp/DAC/streamer!
I think a good idea for maybe a future video is to test the Dayton HTA200 vs a neutral amp but with EQ applied to match the frequency response of the HTA200. Basically, I would love to know if 2 amps that have the same FR (EQed to match the same FR) will sound the same in an ABX test.
Good idea. If they happen to tell me to keep this amp then I’ll do that. But I boxed it up and planned to ship it back to Dayton.
We did a test like this when I was at university, and when matched tor level and frequency response, and not driven into clipping, nobody could hear the difference under ABX testing.
@ErinsAudioCorner
@@markpocock183 Thank you for feedback. I always wondered what about the hiss? Supposedly up to 2% THD is not a problem, but the hiss during quiet moments should be noticeable on some amplifiers and in-audible on others? What would be a threshold for noise floor then?
The fact that you could easily hear that bump in the bottom end, but not hear the bump in response at the top end, is why I always tell people not to worry about response characteristics of speakers above ~4Khz. Bulk of musical energy and ear sensitivity is from ~40hz - 4Khz. Everything above that is just the "air" of other sounds with lower fundamentals. Big response variation in the top 2 octaves can generally be ignored. medium response variations above 2khz are also pretty inconsequential, small response variations from ~100-1000hz will be apparent and change the "signature" of the sound, as this is where almost all vocal energy lives, and lots of instruments.
Many of the best sounding speakers out there sound great because they are flat and clean ~100-1,000hz while having less than ideal looking response outside of this range.
Hmm, Sean Olive has commented on several occasions that in Harman listening training people often confuse bass-boost with treble-cut and the like. It is natural that people react to the overall slope and do not care about all subtleties if the difference is already obvious. Your conclusion would be supported only in case Erin would EQ-out the bass-boost-part and then still fail to detect the difference in treble.
We’ve for your back Erin! Sorry you’re going through a PITA time
I have the Klipsch RP8000s and RP5000s. I have been into audio all my life and Home Theater for almost 30 years. I have no idea if they are designed to go against the wall or not because I can't find that information. So I just put them where they need to go and move them if I am not happy with the performance. Manufacturers should definitely put out more information on their products.
Among reviewers, Erin is on another level.
I really wish he did more of a review on how he likes the way it sounds, I get it about the bass boost but why just focus on the boost especially when it has tone control, which I like because not all recordings are equal and I'm not one of those people that thinks " the artist attended it to sound" because most of them were coked out of their minds 😂. I like to be able to change the tone and maybe they did that to give a sense that it is the tube sound. But we get it it's colored but what about the rest of the review?
Really nice to have amp data to see on the channel also. 👍
I had this amp for a few weeks. It developed low volume output. I sent it back and bought the AV 525 and married it with the Douk audio T3 Plus phono pre amp and it is still awesome after only a month and a half roughly and daily usage minimum 5 hours a day. I rarely even have to use the amps tone controls. Bass is more controlled and the sound is amazing for a hybrid tube amp! PLUS the remote is a million times better than the HTA200. Sounds incredible with my vintage AR XA turntable and a vintage Shure V15 III cartridge. This AV 525 amp also has better specs. An 8 ohms load speaker pair ( = 70 watts per channel ). I hooked up (2) pairs of vintage awesome 8 ohm speakers in parallel to get me the 4 ohms load for the new amp. Now I have about 80 watts per channel peaks. The ( AV 525 ) is a smoking great amp for the price point. I love it! Then it got even better! I ran a Y cable out to (2) Yamaha 6.5 " powered matching sub-woofers via the single sub output RCA jack on the back of the amp. Super nice! I am done. My system sounds awesome! The built in DAC is quite good to Bluetooth wise. I rarely use it for I am a record maniac but still very respectable musically streaming TH-cam when I do. This is a super clean sounding amplifier period with balls and a great sound stage. 1950's jazz mono LP's are a real treat to!
A high fidelity amplifier which adds bass boost and treble boost is no longer high fidelity to me tbh. It's more an amp with equalisation which you cannot turn off. Seems alot of purists are adding equalisation by changing amps instead of just getting DSP from the start.
Nice honest review.
The down side for me is the fan for cooling.
I had the fan on a different Dayton amp fail on me once which caused overheating so now I’m skeptical of the fan build quality.
Wow, and amp with a built in bass boost and plenty of tube distortion! Thanks for the review!
It has tone control so all the talk about the extra bass , if you can adjust it. I'm a big fan of tone control because some recordings might need a little more tremble or bass etc. And this amp really sounds good, i switched the tubes and it sounds 40% better.
Which tubes made this significant a difference if I may ask?
I would also like to know what tubes you got
@@Audiomainia2310 the 2 front little ones, I changed them out with GE tubes on Amazon and I can hear a huge difference. But I someone I know used them and then he switched to more expensive Russian tubes and he said they were even better, someone else on here said he swapped out all the tubes and I asked him and I am waiting for a response, when I find out I will lyk
@@ericembry3674 the two little ones in the front I rolled with GE tubes I found on Amazon and I can hear a big difference, it even got a lot louder, and my friend got Russian tubes I am not sure what he got but he likes them even better than the GE which was only $15 so I am sure if get golden lions or something they will sound even better, I want to roll the rest, I have just been to busy to think about it right now.
Hi Erin thanks for the great review. So good to hear that you are going to review a wider range of audio equipment and are able to do real AB testing, a first among reviewers I believe.
You are quite rightly banging on about hi pass filters so is there any chance of you reviewing another Dayton Audio amplifier the DTA-100ST. Keep up the great work.
Great review Erin, keep up the good work. I have great respect for what you do, and how you do it - as do thousands of us.
I appreciate that!
You are the only one of the "objectivist" reviewers I trust. Thank you for your thorough and fair-minded reviews. You always correlate your measurements with the subjective listening experience. This being said, I had considered buying this amp but the mid-bass hump is a deal breaker for me. As you said, 1.5 db would not seem to be a lot but your review suggests that it is audible. Nonetheless, this amp may work great in the right system and is an exceptional bargain at $350. I wonder if the HTA-100 would be more neutral. Another review did not observe any mid-bass coloration in this lower powered amp.
I became rather puzzuled about this review. So the Dayton amp was easily recognized because of a bass bump in the response curve. But what would happen if you turned the bass knob a few clicks to the left? Did the amp sound like a expensive tube amp? Did it distort at high volume? How does it compare to a similar priced class-d amp?
Erin, be careful with what you say. You don't wanna get sued. LOL!
Erin, I had a chance to hear this amp power a pair of Dayton DIY kit tower speakers with custom crossovers and I was SHOCKED at the quality of sound from that system from the deep bass to the twinkling highs. This amp can do great things with the right speakers. I sure wish i had the money to copy the system I heard a couple weeks ago. Dang it was great!!
That slightly tilted smilely eq must be deliberately implemented. Wonder if analog or digital domain? Items like this are just fun, life is short, get a quirky chinesium tube integrated if it makes you happy. Hp on mains is like the best part of using a sub though
Great review as always Erin! Forgive me for my lack of technical knowledge here but I have a few questions. It seemed like the Daytons clipping point was a lot more linear and smooth. Is it fair to say that speakers that clip more easily would benefit from that characteristic? Also, would you consider trying another ABX test with the bass and treble adjusted to a more flat response? I’m really curious if the power/THD and dominant 2nd order distortion would be enough on their own to distinguish the amps sound. If not, thanks anyway for all the time and research you already put in. In the meantime I’ll check out the other review you referred to. Thanks again
Ok, so o read the review from soundstagenetwork. I think I found something interesting. I’m not an expert in audio, and I could be totally misinterpreting this measurement. So admittedly, I’m literally talking out of my A** here. But the writer, says this: “The HTA200 appears to invert polarity and yields an astonishing -60000 degrees of phase shift at 20kHz”. My interpretation is; that the tube stage can’t reconcile any information above 20kHz and reverses phase of any signal above 20kHz. This would explain why these tube preamps seem to work magic on the soundstage. They buffer out high frequency distortion, allowing you to really push a speaker to its limits without it sounding shrill or sibilant. Also, possibly providing a larger soundstage.
Excellent point. When frequency response is so obviously "creatively shaped", all other aspects will be near-impossible to assess unless the frequency response is EQ-ed out of the equation.
GREAT review. I went tubes three years ago. Love it
Hey Erin - would you be interested in testing the Advance Paris A10 Classic?
Oh, heck yeah!
Man i love it that you have the ABX component. I kinda feel like tube equipment in general gets a bad rap or is misunderstood by the "measurements" crowd. Granted i like my low noise linear components but i love some tube gear as well. This Dayton amp wasn't too bad..nice wattage for the money if it pairs well with something you already own.
Absolutely love that you're blind testing. I find that i enjoy blind testing the subjective parts of the review more than the graphs and lines. If in future reviews you could time stamp this part of the review I'll go straight to it.
This super intelligent testing and discussion got me to subscribe.
Dollars to doughnuts says they baked this in to sound “warm” and “tube like”. The analog inputs are digitized and I’d guess this curve is baked in with DSP. There’s no inherent reason why the tube stage would have this non flat curve.
Indeed, I believe you may be right. SoundStage’s review found they digitize the inputs. So maybe it is DSP doing the heavy lifting of the “warm sound” here. 🤔
Id be interested in seeing a test on a tube amp with tubes on the actual output. Then we can see how tubes interact with the load a speaker presents. I can’t help thinking tubes on the preamp seem kind of fake (?)
I’d like to. So far I haven’t had any luck getting any.
Subscribed due to your HONEST reviews. Get ready for your subscribers to explode due to Tektons bullying. Really appreciate the A/B testing equipment, maybe in the future you can test some DACs too. Been very curious of tube amps for years.
The integral of the low frequency energy under that curve is massive and would be audible on any decent speaker. I would really prefer to see a good AB test (ABX actually) with two amps of similar performance.
Very nice, I am looking forward to comparisons this device brings.
Great engineering journalism. I wholly agree that a good amp should be the same sounding(ish), so I called-it-a-day with a Bryston 4bsst power amp.
Thanks Erin, great review. You described the AB comparison...did you use the X? I assume it has it, where you know A and B but don't know what X is, and try to match it to either A or B. Perhaps, in this case the difference was so obvious it was not necessary, but for subtle differences this is a great way of proving you dud (or did not) hear a difference.
Did I miss something here? You never spoke about how it sounded outside the minor 1 db bass bump?
Would love a video on the ABX Comparator!
Yes, very curious about your abx comparator testing. Thx
Amplifiers unquestionably sound different. There will be similarities, but the differences will be noticeable. Will be the reason you choose amp-A over amp-B!
For over 20 years, the beating heart of my Hi-fi system was my trusty old British integrated. That amp is still in current production, though now sports a remote control, mine doesn’t. I recently took that British integrated amp to the local dealer to be returned to the manufacturer to be refurbished. When it came back into the dealer, they persuaded me to audition the 2 amplifiers higher up in the manufacturer’s integrated range. I agreed to the audition providing it was totally blind.
Within seconds of the first track, being played through the first amp, I knew, unquestionably that, that amp was my trusty 20 year old. I was right. I was also able to identify the other 2 amps with a 100% success rate.
I have more recently seriously upgraded my amplification. I’m using 1 premium preamp to control 2 pairs of monoblocks. I can run them concurrently, or separately. The difference in sonic signature from each pair of monoblocks is unmistakable!
I say stand your ground on the sub output!!! They can just label it line out if they aren't gonna offer a filter.
Line out or Mono out? 😋
Nice job on this review! Thank you
I have the Klipsch rp-8000f ii. I was thinking of trying this as my first tube amp.
Subbed. Tekton brought me here.
Great review, I'm learning a lot. I can't place my speakers against the wall because of furniture and a fireplace ( 2 different rooms), but I don't think I'd buy a specific amp to compensate for bass loss because it. I have always been concerned when I hear a component needs to be matched to another specific component for best sound.
Nothing to speak of on the tube sound? Holographic wide sound stage?
Perhaps your perception of the high freq contour was impacted by filter Q.
The LF boost is nearly four octaves wide.
Whereas the HF boost is under two octaves wide.
Our perception is more adept at low level broad EQ'ing, rather than higher level, narrow EQ'ing.
What a cool piece, you've gotta love Dayton.
Thanks, I've been very curious about this amp. Dig your reviews.
My pleasure!
Love my 2 amps, use USB-B for its highest quality
Thanks loads. +1 on the sub out with no satellite filter. It's why I moved away from the 2.1 chip amps. I have a Dayton 8" kit built DSP subwoofer in my PC nearfield system. That sub extracts the lows and sends the rest on to the satellite amp. You might consider testing that kit or one of their DSP sub amps. They can be adjusted on the fly with a Windows PC GUI. Very cool. Especially since the lack of a satellite filter bugs you as it does me.
Why not use an EQ or DSP to change the frequency response instead of switching amps?
you could try a nulltest. get a high to low level converter hooked to the amp output in parallel to the speakers and record whats going out. record another amp the same way at same level. overlap both in a audio program, invert one track and listen to whats actually different.
i am a total audiophile newcomer but i became intrigued with tube amplifiers so purchased the HTA200 which i just set up with a pair of Klipsch RB61 (8-ohm 95-dB sensitivity) and BT source … i noticed right away that the VU meters don’t move at all volume at the 9 oclock position and only become active (a little) way past the 12 oclock mark and then volume isn’t all that loud (volume max on my iphone) …. is this normal ⁉️ i think the sound quality is good but i have no real points of reference ALSO i’ve run acouple hours and the fan never kick on …. is that normal ⁉️
Great video! I purchased the HTA200 about 8 months ago and I really am enjoying it. I am using some Fluance speakers at the moment, but would like to try my Polk Audio SDA1c's which need a common ground amp. Do you know if the HTA200 is a common ground amp? I tried contacting Dayton audio on this question but never really got an answer. Thanks in advance.
Hi Erin, great review. What do you make of all this measured distortion? Is this tube related? seems higher then other amps you tested.
Honestly, I’m not sure what’s driving the high distortion. There’s a lot going on in this amp. And it could very well be intentional.
Thanks, how audioble is the fan? Also maybe you can review a pro amp like Crest or Beringer. Audiophiles don't like them so much but in my experience they are great vfm.
Say you use EQ to approximate the same frequency response changes that tube amps make. Do you think you would be able to tell the difference between a tube amp and EQ in a blind test?
I don’t know for sure but I’d say probably not. The difference I heard here was in the bass/lower midrange. I didn’t hear any changes in soundstage. But I suppose it’s possible if the clearly different response profiles were made to be the same. Though, I doubt it.
@@ErinsAudioCornerinteresting, I thought the point of the tubes was to add euphonic 2nd order distortion to create this holographic sound (? Deeper wider soundstage)
@@ErinsAudioCorner That makes sense. Thanks for your insight!
Been owning the HTA 200 close to 2 years now and its a steal. I use it on a pair of Faital 3WC 10 by DIY builder Troels Gravesen. These are 3 way speakers with 10" woofer and a sensitivity at 91 dB. The cost is 2,5 - 3 K$. When l finished the kits, l first tried some 6 - 8 amplifiers among them a Musical Fidelity 225 and a Line Magnetic 216ia. But none of them could match the HTA 200. The midrange magic and the 3 dimetionality. Could it be that the designer of the speakers love tubeamps?
Great review, I was going to buy one.
Im thinking that I'll pass on that now. I will save the money and apply it towards my next set of speakers.
Thanks Erin.
I have one, it has tone controls and you just adjust it a little. I rolled the tubes and it sounds 40% better. It has maybe a 1 db bump . He didn't talk about anything negative except a tiny bump that no one would ever be able to hear and if you do turn the bass down, it's $350 and worth it
I might have to give it a listen.
Using a class d amplifier now.
It's very clean, it adds nothing to the sound. But my speakers are warm sounding.
@@anthonymiriello5029 I have a crown drive core I use for my subwoofer but I sometimes use it for 2 channel stereo and it grips the bass and I know what you mean by clean. My speakers a little warm and have really good bass . I designed them myself. What kind of class d are you using because I was thinking about building a kit. Some people don't like it but I think maybe with a tube pre amp it would sound really good
@@anthonymiriello5029 you have to a least roll the front tubes on the Dayton it makes a huge difference. I want to roll them all eventually.
Erin, I would love to hear about your experience buying from AVA. And would love to see you review some of their amps. The SET 120, and the new NP1/CA1 amps in particular. Both of which use unique circuit designs. ✌️
The thing about tube amps is distortion - it's a great distortion on the even low harmonics. Tubes create a distortion that's on the 2nd and 4th harmonics - those coincide with the one and two octaves above. George Gershwin wrote piano rolls early in his career. The player pianos had short strings because a lot of the space was occupied by the mechanics - and that made the sound kinda dull. A trick Gershwin used was adding 2nd and 3rd octave notes - and that made the sound better. Gershwin used tube distortion before tubes were ever around!
Using my Schiit Loki, I've learned that +/- 1 dB frequency response changes can be quite audible.
Why would the design have both triodes and high frequency(RF) pentode both in the preamp portion? The 6K4 tubes are mostly used in old Soviet era RF electronics. Weird.
If I mention Txxton will they take me to court?
some speakers i use i had to adjust height to get lower frequencies while others sound great just on the floor but almost never manufactures tell you how to properly use them I had to figure that out