What did you mean? You watched and was sold on the pilot, and then found out something that contradicted it later on in the video? Cause I also got sold on the pilot and bought it... Do you like the pilot, if you ended up buying it?
I love my Mammut Smart 2.0! My climbing partner is over 100 lbs heavier than I am, and I love having the assisted braking aspect for lead climbing. My partner uses a GriGro 2, but because I'm left handed, I always struggled giving slack with a gri gri. Really smooth giving slack with the Smart, though.
I bought the smart 2.0 and love it!! I came off belaying just with a tube, and may have abseiled my partner somewhat too swiftly on the first one but learned to use the smart well as soon as the second belayed route. You really have a great feel for the speed you let the climber down. And it gives slack really intuitively and well. And feels 100% safe when the climber falls! No complaints and can 100% recommend. Especially when comparing the price to the clickups and other autotubers available!
Jinda Phommavongsa do you find that it jams up? I’ve got a edelrid Juul 2, and I don’t lead belay with it, because I find that it locks up a lot when I give slack... do you find the same? Looking for a solution that’s not the gri gri but I don’t think the juul is it
@@MrDevgames im using the pilot as well and i love the easy way its feeding slack. my climbing partner used the smart 1.0 before but now wants me to bring the pilot every time. maybe u will see someone in a climbing centre where u can try it :)
I personally prefer the grabby ness of the Mammut Smart 2.0. It auto locks a lot better and to me its safer for accidents. It does take 1 day to get used to but in my opinion its better
I have a black diamond atc pilot. It's so nice. I don't have a Grigri but unless I ever start lead climbing a ton I'll be happy with my pilot for years to come.
I think that key to giving slack with Smart is not to rise it up but to pull it forward. Just catch your thumb at the end of the plastic/rubber thing and pull. This way you can give slack with no problem and since you are only holding the device with like half of your thumb in case of fall the device should (just a theory, I didn't tryed this yet) slip, leave the rope in your hand and lock itself.
I hope you will review the new edelrid giga jul. It is such an awesome device, really feels like the last belay device you will ever need. I can highly recommend it. Tuber and assisted braking in one device and even suitable for multipitch, cant't be beaten.
Very good description and explanation between several other belays. I’ve been using different tubers and mechanical belay devices. I’ll give the BD Pilot a go then update this post. One main reason of trying different belay devices is using it to self belay as well as ascend, and most importantly have hands freedom of movement without giving up slack. I do have a backup device (rope hitch) to use as piece of mind.
I got the mammut 2.0 second hand (almost new) for 10 euros. Just after a couople of sessions it you get used to it and become more fluid in both giving rope and lowering. Love it
I have a feeling you do not like Edelrid's Mega Jul. Which basically is the same type of device like Pilot, Smart and Clickup. Mega Jul supports two ropes, belaying from the top, etc. But I like your attitude ;-)
you shouldn't really compare these two devices to the megajul, they're different. Now you should compare these to the Jul 2, if you're not familiar with it look up the Jul 2, i prefer it over anything
Mammut Smart Alpine 2.0 is $5 more than the normal Smart 2.0 ($50 MSRP USD) and supports two ropes, independent belay of 1-2 climbers, etc. It seems many people don't know about the "Alpine" variant, but it's awesome!
I bought my Grigri 2 for 42 euros a while ago. I can't understand this system at 40 euros, it's too much for something as simple as this. 20~30 would be ok but I feel like it's a bit overpriced right now.
The mammut smart is a lot easier on lowering when you use your thumb instead of lowering holding it like the black diamond. Lower by putting your whole hand behind the carabiner, your thumb underneath the handle and just push out!
I own a GigaJul and I'm sad to report it does everything moderately or poorly. I can't recommend it. I love my Mega Jul Sport and the standard Mega Jul is okay too once you get lowering/rappelling dialed in.
Have been using the smart since i started 3 years ago. Now going more and more lead climbing, i recognize the "problem" you mentioned; it is still very usable but now i probably will get the pilot as a second device.. also because loweing is very fun with it.
For any given tubular assisted braking device, the thumb of my brake hand is always beneath the catch/hook/whatever. All slack is given out with the guide hand, and my brake hand disengages the braking mechanism when feeding rope or engages the braking mechanism when catching a fall. Whenever I take in slack, my thumb always finds the same spot, ready to let slack back out or able to engage the device when on take. Also used to disengage most of the brake to lower my climber with my guide hand acting as a back up. I have never understood why anyone is taught to let out slack without hands on the device. As well, said many times but the smart is superior because of two main concerns for a tubular assisted braking device: length of the handle and range of braking force. Preferred the longer handle of the original smart to the current one, but the current one is still longer and therefore easier to get back to and easier to manipulate for lowering. Too, the device does not have a severe and sudden bite to the rope as with a jul and to a lesser extent the pilot. Side note is the pilot having the plastic shell makes a confidence sapping clacking sound, even if I know all the wear points are metal this is just one of those extra strikes.
Unlock the Clickup is so easy, I use it all the time and at the end of my first day of use it was already an automated movement as soon as the climber got back on the wall. Your complain is only valid if you have to climb with someone that has never used it, but I think it's such a specific situation... I often find myself climbing with new people and we'll use our own preferred device. And boy, the effectiveness of the Clickup it's incredible, I've done some experiments and the only weigh of 1 meter of rope it's enough to make it click if you take you hand off the brake line. (It's highly dependent on rope diameter, weight, stiffness, belay position, etc and obviously not recommended, I never do it myself also because I've sport climbed 2 years with an atc before switching to an assisted breaking device, it doesn't feel ok to let go even when it's locked ahah)
So with belay devices a lot of the differences are super subtle. Any device on the market has probably been tested so much and designed in a way that once you're comfortable with it, it feels good. The difference is difficulty of use is going to be between easy and super easy. Basically it doesn't really matter. It all comes down to what feels nice for you to use
I am using the ATC-Pilot for almost a year now. Love it. I was super into plain tubes but my gym made use of autotubes mandatory. So I opted for an autotube that came pretty close to my beloved Edelrid Jul (without the prefix mega, micro or the ^2). The only downside is the plastic becoming super noisy when hitting the carabiner ...
Since you are using it for a year can you give some feedback? is there any worn out of the plastic inside where the carabiner holds the rope? does it get hot in rappels? (20-30meters), does the carabiner worns out when in lowering mode? Thanks in advance.
The pilot and the megajul are both things I recommend to people that want a nice assisted braking device, but can't or don't want to spend grigri money. The less fiddly a device is, the better I say.
I actually find the lowering with the Mammut Smart 2.0 to be more clunky as ropes get wider. The Pilot has no issues with smooth lowering, even on a fuzzy 10.2 gym TR...for me, the Pilot is the clear winner between the two. I prefer a camming device for outside for the additional peace-of-mind, and while I think the GriGri is "better", I prefer the Vergo for reasons that are my own and not relevant to this discussion.
Having used one of the earliest types of these guided channel one-piece autolocking devices, the Wild Country Single Rope Controller, all offer mostly positive catches, especially in a surprise scenario. My complaints arise only after real-world use, and my preferences vary. First, both the Smart and the Pilot as shown here are not as safe in lowering, if you are not holding the brake hand correctly. The two devices do NOT feed slack quickly, despite his assertion for the Pilot, unless you constantly pull up on the thumb catch to orient the device; a friend trying to move to a Pilot from an ATC keeps "feeding" the rope with the brake hand, but it catches and the leader gets short roped. The Smart's longer arm gives more leverage, and I expect with use less fatigue in having to keep the thumb fully up, as both the Pilot and MegaJul require. This issue is exacerbated the moment any loop or drag adds friction on the braking side, as letting rope hang down at a belay stance generates. Grigris are similar, and to properly feed, the brake hand's thumb usually ends up pushing down on the locking cam. In brief, real world use finds the upper, feeding hand pulling all the slack out on demand, and any friction on the brake side must be overcome or else the devices will seize - obviously not an issue for world class climbers, but for smaller, weaker types, this process will be cumulative and fatiguing.
My local climbing shop lent me different devices before I bought one to help me make the right decision. I really liked the pilot however when someone belayed me with this device we had problems getting me down in toprope, as I was too lightweight with me 51 kgs and the had to feed the rope into the pilot to lower me down. I ended up buying the Smart 2.0 with the smarter-addon which I liked best from all of the devices...
I bought one of the ATC Pilots because you say (show) it holds with no pull on the deadrope (3:00), but that's not the case in my experience. I've tested mine with my 9.8mm rope and it barely adds any friction at all. I can't pull hard enough on the deadrope to stop the device from slipping either. I'm probably going to return it since it's much easier to hold the deadrope without slippage on my BD ATC-XP, and I'll just have to get used to paying out slack with my Click-up Plus.
I don’t understand why this would happen with yours but not mine. I’ve never had this problem. It engages and stops my partner dead regardless of what rope we’re using.
@@BlackHowl1 I think it might have something to do with carabineer compatibility. Supposedly the Pilot is independent of the Carabiner but the Salewa Ergo is a device that's very similar to the Pilot and they recommend using it only with their own biner. I wouldn't be surprised if the pilot behaves similarly.
@@SmallestBrownie well yeah, the pilot comes with a black diamond biner. I’m sure it would work with others too, but I’ve never used it with anything but the one supplied.
I would say it's pretty much the same as the SALEWA Ergo Belay. It has the same belay technique like the BD Pilot. But i use the GriGri + for the gym and the good old BD Guide in the mountains anyhow
I've bought a Mammut Smart 2.0 instead of the Pilot for one specific reason: you don't use your full hand around the device to lower the climber. I'm climbing with a beginner and I wanted to avoid the situation where a beginner end up gripping the device and pulling it backwards (see the lever on the Grigri+ that disengages when you pull too hard). As the Mammut should only be actionned by your thumb (typically left thumbs under its hook and right hand on the rope) I like the fact that the hook is generally longer than the one on the Pilot (as the Pilot could also be used as I described earlier). That way you keep your eyes on the climber and not on your belay device. I've been using it for a couple of months now and I love it.
@@ericdieterich4058 I've only done indoor climbing with it (so about 15-20m of rope) and haven't noticed too much heat from friction. It's obviously warm but it's not going to burn you for example.
@@kaitsu1984 Yeah. I do like the Megajul for lead belaying. I'm using a Jul2 for lead belaying in the gym, and would probably take the Megajul if I were to only carry a single device for multipitch.
I use an ATC when I belay someone on top rope and use the Mammut Smart belay 2.0. I love this device. Don’t know to much about the black diamond pilot though.
I own and use both a Pilot and Grigri. I hate lead belaying with a Grigri, it's an absolute pain. Belaying with the Pilot is easy and amazing and the assisted brake is really nice when the climber is going to fall or hang a lot. However it sometimes slowly lets some rope slide through when "locked". It doesn't lock the same way a Grigri does. I would trust my life to a Grigri locking, but definitely not a Pilot (don't let go of the brake strand while belaying and don't let go if rapelling with it!)
I have smart1, smart2, mega jul, jul 2, giga jul, pilot, for single pitch, jul2 blow all of them out , no rope slip, braking power is the best. give out slack is so easy with the rope channel, thumb loop let you feel secure than pilot and smart.no more friction of both side touch between the rope loop and device, smooth like butter. try pilot lowering methed with jul2, better than lift up nose with your thumb.avoid fast lowering build up hot spot burn your thumb.
Still I'm wondering why you compare the Pilot and the Smart and keep ignoring the Salewa Ergo Belay System, as this is somehow the Pilot's father in mind and functions I'd say exactly the same way?
Not sure how to give out slack with the pilot similar to how he shows in the video (without the thumb hooked). The only way I can get a lead belay to work and give out any slack is with a thumb hook. Without hooking my thumb it just instantly locks up. Is he using it wrong?
Seems like the friction between rope, especially when dusty, and the carabiner can dig into the carabiner's metal..Kind of similar effect that happens with overused fixed loweroffs and those are usually made of SS not even aliminium alloy
I love the range of assisted breaking tubulars around now. I really don't see why you would go for a traditional tubular without the added safety except for just learning how to use one for if you have to loan one at the gym. But the range of twin rope models is still lagging behind. The alpine smart is heavy and chunky. The jul's are really jerky when lowering. The Alpine up has a really bad habit of clicking up when your trying to pay out, even with some practice. I've used the original smart belay as my go-to for single ropes for years. There's nothing for twins that I've found that comes anywhere near as close.
Gotta crash the Mega Jul love fest. Don't get me wrong, I've used the Mega Jul for years, and also the Mega Jul Sport for the last year, and they work well. But they ARE grabby and they DO kinda suck to lower and rap off of. Can you overcome those with experience? Sure. But it's become tedious trying to share my belay devices with other people, because NOBODY I share it with is comfortable using the Mega Jul, they all hate trying to lower with it, and generally hate it. My gym switched to the BD pilot a year ago, and it's incredibly intuitive by comparison. It'd be nice if they came out with a 2 rope version so I could rap with it at the sport crag and get one to replace my MegaJul sport.
Just use the Edelrid Jul^2. This Black Diamond thingy is JUST a clone. With added black plastic. Wow, innovative! ...not I also used my MegaJul and then i sold it. Too grabby and belaying with it the whole day long at the crag, you are getting sore shoulders from the force you need to keep the device open. Probably it works better with skinny ropes, but the Mammut Infinity Classic 9.5mm is no thick rope. Therefore i sold it. Nice idea, multi-functional, but too grabby.
The way you give slack depends too much of the rope. With some ropes you just do like you do with an ATC and it's perfect. With other ropes you need to pull up the device with your thumb and I hate that because at the same time you release the rope in your hand and don't know what will happend if the climber fall at that time with a lot of slack in his hand. That's why I've always got a normal ATC with me when I go climbing with the ATC-Pilot, it depends too much of the rope.
so slide the brake hand down a few feet, grip the rope, slap the thumb hook and feed it through? Also, if it's so grippy that you have to grab a lot of slack to feed through faster, what makes you worried about some sort of fall on it? you were going to feed that slack anyway, it's assisted braking, and the rope being extra grippy will just make it catch even easier. If someone has trouble with this device, they're not thinking beyond comparing it to other devices.
@EpicTV Matt: Just use the Edelrid Jul^2. This Black Diamond thingy is JUST a clone. With added black plastic. Wow, innovative! ...not Seriously, you compare it to all sorts of devices, but NOT the Jul^2??? Other than that, I'm with you on your review. I haven't used the Smart 2.0, just the first Smart, and what made me dislike it were 2 things: The rope always jumps out of the handle thing, 2.) when trying to lower: device locks, device locks, and then suddenly the rope runs through (which makes you stop, which makes the climber stop). Very annoying, very tiny sweet spot! The MegaJul I also sold, because it was too grabby, also with a normal and pretty new Mammut Infinity Classic 9.5mm rope. Probably it is better with skinny ropes, but 9.5mm is not thick. A full day belaying at the crag, i had sore shoulders, from the constant force needed to keep the device open. Because it is so grabby. It locks down so fast and hard --> so, a very safe device ;)
Go for the Mega Jul Durable steel Light Weight Like a perfect ATC with extra safety All products are very good but in my eyes the mega jul is underrated in the community.
I had a pilot, failed catastrophically on the first day of use when the rope came out the side and jammed around the biner. All while my climber was trying to clip. Standard ATC from here for me.
Christopher Walsh No sarcasm or disrespect but...how? I’ve had the Pilot for years and I can’t even imagine how that could happen. It’s always worked flawlessly for me, just doesn’t brake as hard as the Smart or a Grigri
@@jacobgaylord9277 10mm rope came out the side instead of the back because the opening is too wide. If you compare it to the others they all have skinnier openings, just big enough for the biner. I was super unlucky and when it did pop out it wrapped around the biner and jammed up. Took a bit too get it unjammed :(
There are four holes. One where you place the rope in, one at the back for any excess in the system to go out of and two on the sides where the carabiner goes through
@@akvtei you sound like you are using it completely wrong. there is literally only one proper way to load it, and the tolerances even on a 9.6mm rope are too tight for anything like what you are describing to happen. Were you not using a locking carabiner? Did you shove it in one of the side holes? were you pulling the brake off to the side as if it was a grigri? This device is RETARDED simple.
Single rope=jul 2 beats all of them, stream line rope channel and closed trumb loop makes pay out slack much easier than those two. Lowering leader with pilot way is better than push up trumb loop. One more thing, giga jul is a big step up on mega jul if you belay second by guide mode cause giga has longer and wider rope slot , it is the most versatile belay device so far. Im a belay device collector so I almost have all the devices you gays mentioned except revo, its heavy , complicated and expensive, bad idea.
not a fan of the slack-feeding technique shown -- should ALWAYS have a hand closed on the brake rope. In the demo, the other hand is on the feed end so when he's choking up on the brake rope, it's only with a loose hand.
Dux it is plenty acceptable (and standard practice by experienced climbers and pros!) to have a loose brake hand while you're paying out slack. You're not letting go of the rope, just allowing the rope to glide through. This is what you do with any device; atc, grigri etc. If you need to brake suddenly you just grip the gosh darned rope. I have a feeling your climbers are often shouting "Slaaack!".
Brake hand typically assists (to a small degree) the first stage in giving slack, then loosely slides back down the rope as your upper hand tosses the rope out. That's atc style. Grigri paying out slack: Brake hand's pinky and ring fingers rest on underside of device, thumb wrapped on top of- and on the back of the lower handle (the handles knuckle-pivot point) to allow pay-out. The rope is curled over the side of the device and in your palm, ready to grab at any moment. Practice.
Matthieu Biferi no. you’re not ;) we learned a totally different lowering technique with the megajul that applies 1:1 to the smart 2.0. Your hand doesn’t even touch the metal. it looks like the reversed lead climbing grip for giving slack. but the brakehand is below the device on the rope, and the other hand is tunneling the rope with the thumb under the smarts nose.
"Safe of mind if you get hit by a rock" th-cam.com/video/d4TGVAoSjNI/w-d-xo.html and on the other hand it is not sure to catch the cliḿber, you should keep hand on ropw. Unfortunaly that sounds like a grigri thay may catch the climber or mayby not. :) Sure, tubulars or modified tubulars are cheaper. It is not abount lowering, it is about the people being lowered and catched.
From one video to another you change sentiments on a device, claim the other products are clunky, dificilt etc, and talk about how this new product is better and focus mainly on their selling points. rinse and repeat from one video to another.. There is no ultimate truth in your reviews, but an always shifting focus on the new products. It's basically watching a add disguised as a review, with barely enough feedback to make people feel you are genuine.
You're not giving slack the same way on the mammut as you do black diamond. I watched you feed with right hand while pulling slack with left hand on black diamond. Meanwhile, you only pulls slack with left hand with no feeding on right hand for mammut. You're also holding the mammut with your thumb whereas you're not holding the black diamond. That's why it doesn't feed as easily.
Colorado USA here, I learned climbing/ belay commands and the double figure eight knot in my middle school gym class. I also learned how to belay on a _grigri_. This video makes *new* climbing gear look like rocket science. This product might very well be usefull. However, why use a sledgehammer, when a rock will do?
As a mechanical engineer... i trust self locking devices far more than humans. I will never feel as comfortable as when my belayer has a grigri. And if thats too complicated for you, you shouldnt belay anyways.
Compared to a figure eight or tubular device yes. But I agree, it's not hard to figure out how to use a grigri and if you can't do that you probably shouldn't be belaying
Relative. All belay devices are designed to be mostly intuitive, and the difference between the easiest and most complex belay device is super subtle. The pilot is easier to use than a grigri, even if a grigri is still easy
![[FINALE] 💸ที่แท้พ่อเป็นผู้ถือหุ้นบริษัทพันล้าน เขากลับใจตอนนี้ก็สายไปแล้ว🙇🏻♂️#ละครคุณธรรม #short](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yFwgjTFISUI/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't even climb, why do I enjoy this channel so much?
Same here :)
Think about trying it, maybe you'd enjoy it
Weird, isn’t it. I’ve never climbed, but there’s something fascinating about rope and hardware. On a lighter scale, it relates to 4WD recovery gear.
Imagine how you would enjoy if you'd climb!!
I took my intro belay certif from Allez-Up in Montreal (Canada) but didn't end up climbing, but the lingo and enthusiasm here is catchy. 😯
7min in the video and instant went to my climbing shop and bought it and now im watching the rest of the video
What did you mean? You watched and was sold on the pilot, and then found out something that contradicted it later on in the video? Cause I also got sold on the pilot and bought it... Do you like the pilot, if you ended up buying it?
Yeah as other have pointed out, I feel like the Edelrid Jul 2 is missing from that comparison.
I love my Mammut Smart 2.0! My climbing partner is over 100 lbs heavier than I am, and I love having the assisted braking aspect for lead climbing. My partner uses a GriGro 2, but because I'm left handed, I always struggled giving slack with a gri gri. Really smooth giving slack with the Smart, though.
Helen Winston just fall
I bought the smart 2.0 and love it!! I came off belaying just with a tube, and may have abseiled my partner somewhat too swiftly on the first one but learned to use the smart well as soon as the second belayed route. You really have a great feel for the speed you let the climber down. And it gives slack really intuitively and well. And feels 100% safe when the climber falls! No complaints and can 100% recommend. Especially when comparing the price to the clickups and other autotubers available!
love my Pilot for all the same reasons. the device is so intuitive to use. and you can't beat that price.
Jinda Phommavongsa do you find that it jams up? I’ve got a edelrid Juul 2, and I don’t lead belay with it, because I find that it locks up a lot when I give slack... do you find the same? Looking for a solution that’s not the gri gri but I don’t think the juul is it
@@MrDevgames im using the pilot as well and i love the easy way its feeding slack. my climbing partner used the smart 1.0 before but now wants me to bring the pilot every time. maybe u will see someone in a climbing centre where u can try it :)
I personally prefer the grabby ness of the Mammut Smart 2.0. It auto locks a lot better and to me its safer for accidents. It does take 1 day to get used to but in my opinion its better
I have a black diamond atc pilot. It's so nice. I don't have a Grigri but unless I ever start lead climbing a ton I'll be happy with my pilot for years to come.
I'd like to see a comparison of guide-style devices, specifically the ATC-guide vs. the Mammut Bionic Alpine when lowering the follower.
I think that key to giving slack with Smart is not to rise it up but to pull it forward. Just catch your thumb at the end of the plastic/rubber thing and pull. This way you can give slack with no problem and since you are only holding the device with like half of your thumb in case of fall the device should (just a theory, I didn't tryed this yet) slip, leave the rope in your hand and lock itself.
Totally agree on this comment as a m smart user!
I hope you will review the new edelrid giga jul. It is such an awesome device, really feels like the last belay device you will ever need. I can highly recommend it. Tuber and assisted braking in one device and even suitable for multipitch, cant't be beaten.
Very good description and explanation between several other belays. I’ve been using different tubers and mechanical belay devices. I’ll give the BD Pilot a go then update this post. One main reason of trying different belay devices is using it to self belay as well as ascend, and most importantly have hands freedom of movement without giving up slack. I do have a backup device (rope hitch) to use as piece of mind.
I got the mammut 2.0 second hand (almost new) for 10 euros. Just after a couople of sessions it you get used to it and become more fluid in both giving rope and lowering. Love it
You should review the maddock lifeguard assisted breaking device
I have one and a Gri Gri. it works close to the same and is lighter. I really enjoy mine.
I have a feeling you do not like Edelrid's Mega Jul. Which basically is the same type of device like Pilot, Smart and Clickup. Mega Jul supports two ropes, belaying from the top, etc.
But I like your attitude ;-)
Hell yes. I love my multitasking Mega Jul.
you shouldn't really compare these two devices to the megajul, they're different. Now you should compare these to the Jul 2, if you're not familiar with it look up the Jul 2, i prefer it over anything
Mammut Smart Alpine 2.0 is $5 more than the normal Smart 2.0 ($50 MSRP USD) and supports two ropes, independent belay of 1-2 climbers, etc. It seems many people don't know about the "Alpine" variant, but it's awesome!
I bought my Grigri 2 for 42 euros a while ago. I can't understand this system at 40 euros, it's too much for something as simple as this. 20~30 would be ok but I feel like it's a bit overpriced right now.
My climbing partner got one because he's left handed and can't use a grigri
Yours obviously was on sale🤦♂️
I agree 40 is a bit much. But they seem to always be on sale for around 30, which makes a bit more sense.
Evan Byrd it wasn’t. It was €45 at Decathlon and I bought it at Sportscheck for €42. Most prices were between €40-€55.
Great review, you covered all the questions I had and answered the comparisons I had with the Smart 2.0 and covered the Karabiner.
Edelrid's answer to the Smart or Pilot would be the the Jul2 - which comes at around 23€ in the epic tv shop and was somehow forgotten in this review.
I use the jul2 and find it great for lead once you're used to it.
@@johnmortimerjbmfitness7753 me too. Luv it!
I use this with beginner clients and I like it very much for that purpose.
The mammut smart is a lot easier on lowering when you use your thumb instead of lowering holding it like the black diamond. Lower by putting your whole hand behind the carabiner, your thumb underneath the handle and just push out!
Thanks for the review, much appreciated as I was debating between which of the two to purchase.
For anyone wondering what cracking tune is played in the background, it's Sonic Rebound by Phillip Jewson
You have make-up my mind, Thank you Very Much~~
dont you lower with the smart by lifting the nose with the thumb?
I lower the way you described. I find it very smooth once you discover that sweet spot.
Please make a review on the new Edelrid GigaJul please
I own a GigaJul and I'm sad to report it does everything moderately or poorly. I can't recommend it. I love my Mega Jul Sport and the standard Mega Jul is okay too once you get lowering/rappelling dialed in.
Have been using the smart since i started 3 years ago. Now going more and more lead climbing, i recognize the "problem" you mentioned; it is still very usable but now i probably will get the pilot as a second device.. also because loweing is very fun with it.
Great speaker, smooth music and oh wait, all the information I was looking for, perfect. Thanks!
For any given tubular assisted braking device, the thumb of my brake hand is always beneath the catch/hook/whatever. All slack is given out with the guide hand, and my brake hand disengages the braking mechanism when feeding rope or engages the braking mechanism when catching a fall. Whenever I take in slack, my thumb always finds the same spot, ready to let slack back out or able to engage the device when on take. Also used to disengage most of the brake to lower my climber with my guide hand acting as a back up.
I have never understood why anyone is taught to let out slack without hands on the device.
As well, said many times but the smart is superior because of two main concerns for a tubular assisted braking device: length of the handle and range of braking force. Preferred the longer handle of the original smart to the current one, but the current one is still longer and therefore easier to get back to and easier to manipulate for lowering. Too, the device does not have a severe and sudden bite to the rope as with a jul and to a lesser extent the pilot. Side note is the pilot having the plastic shell makes a confidence sapping clacking sound, even if I know all the wear points are metal this is just one of those extra strikes.
Unlock the Clickup is so easy, I use it all the time and at the end of my first day of use it was already an automated movement as soon as the climber got back on the wall. Your complain is only valid if you have to climb with someone that has never used it, but I think it's such a specific situation... I often find myself climbing with new people and we'll use our own preferred device.
And boy, the effectiveness of the Clickup it's incredible, I've done some experiments and the only weigh of 1 meter of rope it's enough to make it click if you take you hand off the brake line. (It's highly dependent on rope diameter, weight, stiffness, belay position, etc and obviously not recommended, I never do it myself also because I've sport climbed 2 years with an atc before switching to an assisted breaking device, it doesn't feel ok to let go even when it's locked ahah)
So with belay devices a lot of the differences are super subtle. Any device on the market has probably been tested so much and designed in a way that once you're comfortable with it, it feels good. The difference is difficulty of use is going to be between easy and super easy. Basically it doesn't really matter. It all comes down to what feels nice for you to use
I use megajul as it has a guide mode
Okay, now I regret buying the grigri! 😳 oh well, my so. Will love this one.
Why do you regret buying the Grigri? I can't decide between the Grigri and the Ergo, which one would you recommend?
I have both of the ones mentioned in the video and i have a grigri 2 for most climbs especialy when people are projecting i prefer the grigri.
I am using the ATC-Pilot for almost a year now. Love it. I was super into plain tubes but my gym made use of autotubes mandatory. So I opted for an autotube that came pretty close to my beloved Edelrid Jul (without the prefix mega, micro or the ^2). The only downside is the plastic becoming super noisy when hitting the carabiner ...
Since you are using it for a year can you give some feedback? is there any worn out of the plastic inside where the carabiner holds the rope? does it get hot in rappels? (20-30meters), does the carabiner worns out when in lowering mode? Thanks in advance.
The pilot and the megajul are both things I recommend to people that want a nice assisted braking device, but can't or don't want to spend grigri money. The less fiddly a device is, the better I say.
What comperable options are there when you get into 11mm to 1/2in rope territory?
I actually find the lowering with the Mammut Smart 2.0 to be more clunky as ropes get wider. The Pilot has no issues with smooth lowering, even on a fuzzy 10.2 gym TR...for me, the Pilot is the clear winner between the two. I prefer a camming device for outside for the additional peace-of-mind, and while I think the GriGri is "better", I prefer the Vergo for reasons that are my own and not relevant to this discussion.
Having used one of the earliest types of these guided channel one-piece autolocking devices, the Wild Country Single Rope Controller, all offer mostly positive catches, especially in a surprise scenario. My complaints arise only after real-world use, and my preferences vary. First, both the Smart and the Pilot as shown here are not as safe in lowering, if you are not holding the brake hand correctly. The two devices do NOT feed slack quickly, despite his assertion for the Pilot, unless you constantly pull up on the thumb catch to orient the device; a friend trying to move to a Pilot from an ATC keeps "feeding" the rope with the brake hand, but it catches and the leader gets short roped. The Smart's longer arm gives more leverage, and I expect with use less fatigue in having to keep the thumb fully up, as both the Pilot and MegaJul require. This issue is exacerbated the moment any loop or drag adds friction on the braking side, as letting rope hang down at a belay stance generates. Grigris are similar, and to properly feed, the brake hand's thumb usually ends up pushing down on the locking cam. In brief, real world use finds the upper, feeding hand pulling all the slack out on demand, and any friction on the brake side must be overcome or else the devices will seize - obviously not an issue for world class climbers, but for smaller, weaker types, this process will be cumulative and fatiguing.
My local climbing shop lent me different devices before I bought one to help me make the right decision. I really liked the pilot however when someone belayed me with this device we had problems getting me down in toprope, as I was too lightweight with me 51 kgs and the had to feed the rope into the pilot to lower me down. I ended up buying the Smart 2.0 with the smarter-addon which I liked best from all of the devices...
A bee-lay device? Still cracks me up.
got one of these about 6 months ago based of this review.. love it.
Still Good?
I bought one of the ATC Pilots because you say (show) it holds with no pull on the deadrope (3:00), but that's not the case in my experience. I've tested mine with my 9.8mm rope and it barely adds any friction at all. I can't pull hard enough on the deadrope to stop the device from slipping either.
I'm probably going to return it since it's much easier to hold the deadrope without slippage on my BD ATC-XP, and I'll just have to get used to paying out slack with my Click-up Plus.
I don’t understand why this would happen with yours but not mine. I’ve never had this problem. It engages and stops my partner dead regardless of what rope we’re using.
@@BlackHowl1 I think it might have something to do with carabineer compatibility. Supposedly the Pilot is independent of the Carabiner but the Salewa Ergo is a device that's very similar to the Pilot and they recommend using it only with their own biner. I wouldn't be surprised if the pilot behaves similarly.
@@SmallestBrownie well yeah, the pilot comes with a black diamond biner. I’m sure it would work with others too, but I’ve never used it with anything but the one supplied.
I would say it's pretty much the same as the SALEWA Ergo Belay. It has the same belay technique like the BD Pilot. But i use the GriGri + for the gym and the good old BD Guide in the mountains anyhow
I've bought a Mammut Smart 2.0 instead of the Pilot for one specific reason: you don't use your full hand around the device to lower the climber. I'm climbing with a beginner and I wanted to avoid the situation where a beginner end up gripping the device and pulling it backwards (see the lever on the Grigri+ that disengages when you pull too hard).
As the Mammut should only be actionned by your thumb (typically left thumbs under its hook and right hand on the rope) I like the fact that the hook is generally longer than the one on the Pilot (as the Pilot could also be used as I described earlier). That way you keep your eyes on the climber and not on your belay device.
I've been using it for a couple of months now and I love it.
My climbing partner just got the mammut not too long ago and has had issues with it getting too hot when lowering. Have you had any issues with that?
@@ericdieterich4058 I've only done indoor climbing with it (so about 15-20m of rope) and haven't noticed too much heat from friction. It's obviously warm but it's not going to burn you for example.
Megajul beats both these by verstility alone! Never had any problems or experienced any of the negatives I've heard or seen on the internet.
I've found rappelling to be annoying in either configuration. Even the non-locking mode is nowhere near as smooth as an ATC.
@@damnination333 I hear you, it does take a little getting used to. I carry a normal ATC if I need to rappel a lot.
@@kaitsu1984 Yeah. I do like the Megajul for lead belaying. I'm using a Jul2 for lead belaying in the gym, and would probably take the Megajul if I were to only carry a single device for multipitch.
I use an ATC when I belay someone on top rope and use the Mammut Smart belay 2.0. I love this device. Don’t know to much about the black diamond pilot though.
I used both and prefer the Mammut. It's lighter, slimmer and just feels better in my hand.
I own and use both a Pilot and Grigri. I hate lead belaying with a Grigri, it's an absolute pain. Belaying with the Pilot is easy and amazing and the assisted brake is really nice when the climber is going to fall or hang a lot. However it sometimes slowly lets some rope slide through when "locked". It doesn't lock the same way a Grigri does. I would trust my life to a Grigri locking, but definitely not a Pilot (don't let go of the brake strand while belaying and don't let go if rapelling with it!)
I have smart1, smart2, mega jul, jul 2, giga jul, pilot, for single pitch, jul2 blow all of them out , no rope slip, braking power is the best. give out slack is so easy with the rope channel, thumb loop let you feel secure than pilot and smart.no more friction of both side touch between the rope loop and device, smooth like butter. try pilot lowering methed with jul2, better than lift up nose with your thumb.avoid fast lowering build up hot spot burn your thumb.
Still I'm wondering why you compare the Pilot and the Smart and keep ignoring the Salewa Ergo Belay System, as this is somehow the Pilot's father in mind and functions I'd say exactly the same way?
I’ve been toying over which belay to buy. Just seen this video and love to pilot! Shut up and take my money! 💰
Not sure how to give out slack with the pilot similar to how he shows in the video (without the thumb hooked). The only way I can get a lead belay to work and give out any slack is with a thumb hook. Without hooking my thumb it just instantly locks up. Is he using it wrong?
Just subscribed. Thanks and Godspeed !
Seems like the friction between rope, especially when dusty, and the carabiner can dig into the carabiner's metal..Kind of similar effect that happens with overused fixed loweroffs and those are usually made of SS not even aliminium alloy
Great review! You definitely cover great detail on usability :) I'm going to get the Pilot :P
I wonder how the pilot does with the 10.3mm rope that my gym uses.... anybody have any input on that? thanks
5:14 - I never open lower hand like this. I allways have my index finger and thumb connected to prevent slipping rope.
I love the range of assisted breaking tubulars around now. I really don't see why you would go for a traditional tubular without the added safety except for just learning how to use one for if you have to loan one at the gym. But the range of twin rope models is still lagging behind. The alpine smart is heavy and chunky. The jul's are really jerky when lowering. The Alpine up has a really bad habit of clicking up when your trying to pay out, even with some practice. I've used the original smart belay as my go-to for single ropes for years. There's nothing for twins that I've found that comes anywhere near as close.
James Sandford look at a petzel shunt if they still make it. Can also be used for double rope solo climbing on routes that can be set for top rope
you convinced me after a series of videos!
The Mammut grabs and catches to easy and it´s a LOT harder to lower with it..
Beginner here, will these work well for arborists?
What is the lanyard you are using with the Ghost harness? Is it the Dynaloop?
About to do some big climbs in Arkansas. Def getting black diamond pilot.
mega jul has far more features for the same price
I just got my smart 2.0 and I am very happy
I'm a beginner and I have my first top rope course next week ... do you expect that we'll learn on an ATC device?
defenedly
@@henkka_95 that was said with a lot of confidence. None of my local gyms do top rope courses using an atc
I don't understand why they don't make it work with 11mm ropes when they are NFAA standard
Yes!!!!! The video I’ve been waiting for
Gotta crash the Mega Jul love fest. Don't get me wrong, I've used the Mega Jul for years, and also the Mega Jul Sport for the last year, and they work well. But they ARE grabby and they DO kinda suck to lower and rap off of. Can you overcome those with experience? Sure. But it's become tedious trying to share my belay devices with other people, because NOBODY I share it with is comfortable using the Mega Jul, they all hate trying to lower with it, and generally hate it. My gym switched to the BD pilot a year ago, and it's incredibly intuitive by comparison. It'd be nice if they came out with a 2 rope version so I could rap with it at the sport crag and get one to replace my MegaJul sport.
Just use the Edelrid Jul^2. This Black Diamond thingy is JUST a clone. With added black plastic. Wow, innovative! ...not
I also used my MegaJul and then i sold it. Too grabby and belaying with it the whole day long at the crag, you are getting sore shoulders from the force you need to keep the device open. Probably it works better with skinny ropes, but the Mammut Infinity Classic 9.5mm is no thick rope. Therefore i sold it. Nice idea, multi-functional, but too grabby.
The way you give slack depends too much of the rope. With some ropes you just do like you do with an ATC and it's perfect. With other ropes you need to pull up the device with your thumb and I hate that because at the same time you release the rope in your hand and don't know what will happend if the climber fall at that time with a lot of slack in his hand. That's why I've always got a normal ATC with me when I go climbing with the ATC-Pilot, it depends too much of the rope.
so slide the brake hand down a few feet, grip the rope, slap the thumb hook and feed it through? Also, if it's so grippy that you have to grab a lot of slack to feed through faster, what makes you worried about some sort of fall on it? you were going to feed that slack anyway, it's assisted braking, and the rope being extra grippy will just make it catch even easier. If someone has trouble with this device, they're not thinking beyond comparing it to other devices.
@EpicTV Matt: Just use the Edelrid Jul^2. This Black Diamond thingy is JUST a clone. With added black plastic. Wow, innovative! ...not
Seriously, you compare it to all sorts of devices, but NOT the Jul^2???
Other than that, I'm with you on your review.
I haven't used the Smart 2.0, just the first Smart, and what made me dislike it were 2 things: The rope always jumps out of the handle thing, 2.) when trying to lower: device locks, device locks, and then suddenly the rope runs through (which makes you stop, which makes the climber stop). Very annoying, very tiny sweet spot!
The MegaJul I also sold, because it was too grabby, also with a normal and pretty new Mammut Infinity Classic 9.5mm rope. Probably it is better with skinny ropes, but 9.5mm is not thick.
A full day belaying at the crag, i had sore shoulders, from the constant force needed to keep the device open. Because it is so grabby. It locks down so fast and hard --> so, a very safe device ;)
Smart is amazing device. Since I have it I never take Grigri in my hands again 😂
Atc pilot !!! I m in love !!!!!!
Go for the Mega Jul
Durable steel
Light Weight
Like a perfect ATC with extra safety
All products are very good but in my eyes the mega jul is underrated in the community.
Go the the Giga Jul - even better!
I had a pilot, failed catastrophically on the first day of use when the rope came out the side and jammed around the biner. All while my climber was trying to clip. Standard ATC from here for me.
Christopher Walsh No sarcasm or disrespect but...how? I’ve had the Pilot for years and I can’t even imagine how that could happen. It’s always worked flawlessly for me, just doesn’t brake as hard as the Smart or a Grigri
@@jacobgaylord9277 10mm rope came out the side instead of the back because the opening is too wide. If you compare it to the others they all have skinnier openings, just big enough for the biner.
I was super unlucky and when it did pop out it wrapped around the biner and jammed up. Took a bit too get it unjammed :(
Wait what? What part is the side? I can't seem to picture any way that the rope could come out of the system
There are four holes. One where you place the rope in, one at the back for any excess in the system to go out of and two on the sides where the carabiner goes through
@@akvtei you sound like you are using it completely wrong. there is literally only one proper way to load it, and the tolerances even on a 9.6mm rope are too tight for anything like what you are describing to happen. Were you not using a locking carabiner? Did you shove it in one of the side holes? were you pulling the brake off to the side as if it was a grigri? This device is RETARDED simple.
Single rope=jul 2 beats all of them, stream line rope channel and closed trumb loop makes pay out slack much easier than those two. Lowering leader with pilot way is better than push up trumb loop. One more thing, giga jul is a big step up on mega jul if you belay second by guide mode cause giga has longer and wider rope slot , it is the most versatile belay device so far. Im a belay device collector so I almost have all the devices you gays mentioned except revo, its heavy , complicated and expensive, bad idea.
not a fan of the slack-feeding technique shown -- should ALWAYS have a hand closed on the brake rope. In the demo, the other hand is on the feed end so when he's choking up on the brake rope, it's only with a loose hand.
Dux it is plenty acceptable (and standard practice by experienced climbers and pros!) to have a loose brake hand while you're paying out slack. You're not letting go of the rope, just allowing the rope to glide through. This is what you do with any device; atc, grigri etc. If you need to brake suddenly you just grip the gosh darned rope. I have a feeling your climbers are often shouting "Slaaack!".
Brake hand typically assists (to a small degree) the first stage in giving slack, then loosely slides back down the rope as your upper hand tosses the rope out. That's atc style. Grigri paying out slack: Brake hand's pinky and ring fingers rest on underside of device, thumb wrapped on top of- and on the back of the lower handle (the handles knuckle-pivot point) to allow pay-out. The rope is curled over the side of the device and in your palm, ready to grab at any moment. Practice.
Use a Revo for beginners!!!
am i the only one lowering diffrently with the smart?😅
Matthieu Biferi no. you’re not ;) we learned a totally different lowering technique with the megajul that applies 1:1 to the smart 2.0. Your hand doesn’t even touch the metal. it looks like the reversed lead climbing grip for giving slack. but the brakehand is below the device on the rope, and the other hand is tunneling the rope with the thumb under the smarts nose.
"Safe of mind if you get hit by a rock" th-cam.com/video/d4TGVAoSjNI/w-d-xo.html and on the other hand it is not sure to catch the cliḿber, you should keep hand on ropw. Unfortunaly that sounds like a grigri thay may catch the climber or mayby not. :)
Sure, tubulars or modified tubulars are cheaper.
It is not abount lowering, it is about the people being lowered and catched.
From one video to another you change sentiments on a device, claim the other products are clunky, dificilt etc, and talk about how this new product is better and focus mainly on their selling points. rinse and repeat from one video to another.. There is no ultimate truth in your reviews, but an always shifting focus on the new products.
It's basically watching a add disguised as a review, with barely enough feedback to make people feel you are genuine.
Saw me coming. Hook line and sinker
I wish there was a left handed gri gri
Could you just 3d print those?
It’s half metal. Don’t screw around with safety equipment please. Is your life really worth 50 dollars?
gooz0mbie Personally i dont really care but i know what u mean tho
You're not giving slack the same way on the mammut as you do black diamond. I watched you feed with right hand while pulling slack with left hand on black diamond. Meanwhile, you only pulls slack with left hand with no feeding on right hand for mammut. You're also holding the mammut with your thumb whereas you're not holding the black diamond. That's why it doesn't feed as easily.
get a grigri. way more versatile
I would have loved this vid... i dont know... a couple months ago maybe???
@epictv BURN! Toby...sooo true....omg....
Frank Bush ya im a little salty cause i bought the smart mamath 2.0 but looking at this i wish i had gotton the other
A parada é só ficar no atc msm, só usa grigri quem é playboy
smart is my favorite for lead belaying
These devices look to be better than the GriGri for us lefties.
It's basically the same thing.. Buy the cheaper one and don't make you wallet cry for nothing.
Apparently, BD doesn't give a darn about an updated device for thumbless climbers.. Nice.
Colorado USA here, I learned climbing/ belay commands and the double figure eight knot in my middle school gym class. I also learned how to belay on a _grigri_. This video makes *new* climbing gear look like rocket science. This product might very well be usefull. However, why use a sledgehammer, when a rock will do?
As a mechanical engineer... i trust self locking devices far more than humans. I will never feel as comfortable as when my belayer has a grigri. And if thats too complicated for you, you shouldnt belay anyways.
Of course the American company made it look like a gun 😂
A lot like the Mammut Smart 2 from ...... Switzerland
it doesn't look like it would hold your fall
He's still using the tip of his thumb to give slack on the smart rather than the base of his thumb. Of course it feels weird.
I like the smart 2.0 a lot. I hate the short ergonomics of the bd.
Mega Jul master race
Grigris are complex? What?
Compared to a figure eight or tubular device yes. But I agree, it's not hard to figure out how to use a grigri and if you can't do that you probably shouldn't be belaying
Relative. All belay devices are designed to be mostly intuitive, and the difference between the easiest and most complex belay device is super subtle. The pilot is easier to use than a grigri, even if a grigri is still easy
Black Diamond Pilot vs Click up plus??
I would argue if the grigri is too complex for them; they should not be climbing.