I am a coach driver in europe ( belgium). I also think that the tail swing of european coaches is a lot more because we need that smaller wheelbase for driving on the smaller roads in europe. The VDL dubbeldecker has a more similar wheelbase as an american coach, which makes it sometimes a weird experience to drive it because your not used to it being les able to take tight turns. If you ever have the change you should take a ride in an Irizar I8, that coach has a tail swing so large, you need to order 10 rear bumpers in advance because it is just a matter of time.....
Hey James its great to see you again. I have been driving 40 ft school buses for 50 years. One of the most common mistakes Ive seen bus drivers make is not leaving enough room from the vehicle next to them when making a turn. You have to have what I call proper "set up" for your turn. Allow proper distance from the vehicle next to you and dont begin turning too sharp too quickly. (Sorry, I was an instructor for many years) Anyway.......Happy New Year James!
I start training for Mears Transportation in Orlando, FL this weekend, these videos are super helpful and lowers my stress on learning how to operate a motorcoach. 😄
We in the trucking industry have the same problem. Trailer axles can be moved back and forth for weight distribution. Just like busses, the more we slide the axles up, the bigger tail swing we have to think about. I’ve learned the best way to combat this is to make turns much more gradually, and when it doubt, safely take up another lane to complete the turn. That’s why trip planning or as James likes to call it “Homework” is key. Know where all your turns are along the route and plan your lane position before getting to them.
Even long after I’ve stopped driving buses, I will enjoy watching your videos! Great to see you presenting at UMA in a topic YOU have inadvertently created that has helped the industry 😁
As a semi retired UK driver, your tips I think are spot-on, very helpful for a new recruit. My vehicle of comfort is 40 ft two axle. The coaches pictured look quite scary to me, but as you say the roads are more suited in the US. When I started out, one of the older drivers gave me a tip I will never forget. He said; "Never make it hard for yourself" meaning for instance, if going round the block saves you reversing, then go round the block!! Great video thank you.
A European coach driver here. Our 14.1m Astromegas have a skibox in the back making it full 15m or 49.2ft. With a steered tag axle that gives an effective rear overhang of 5.5m or 18ft. The tail swings out five and half feet! Most of our other coaches are 15m without skibox, rear overhang being that 80cm shorter. Both types require the same amount of space in street corners, but you have to place the vehicle differently when approaching the turn. If you remember what kind of vehicle you are driving, it's not a problem at all. I have smashed a rear corner only once in my 20 years of driving coaches. For making those tight turns, we recommend our drivers to start the turn from the middle of two lanes, blocking both lanes from passing cars.
As a driver of 15 meter Scania Irizar coach I find the biggest issue is not tail swing as such but the fact that most of the car drivers have no clue how a 15 meter coach is turning, so if possible I block two lanes in order to making a tight turn. For me it is important to know your vehicle - we used to have some 15 meter VDL Futura 2 coaches that had 40 cm longer wheelbase and a tag axle that turned in less angle compared to Scania, so whenever I had to switch from VDL to Scania or vice versa, I had to bear that in mind when maneuvering in tight corners. All of our coaches have outline marker lines on rubber necks so locating the rear end of the coach from the mirror is very easy. Newer coaches have cameras instead of mirrors and it is a lot harder to get the idea of depth perception from the camera feed.
I’m a transit bus operator and we do have some MCI’s D45 CRT LE. We run them on our express routes . We really don’t have too much of an issue with tail swing because most Transit buses stay oncity streets. We don’t usually have to navigate parking lots or anything. Basically we just have to deal with tight city streets in downtown.
I drive a conventional school bus with the long overhang. If you have a 2nd lane going the same direction, and you need to make a sharp right turn, take up both lanes to stop cars from moving alongside you. Take the road space you need to be safe.
Unfortunately due to medical reasons, I'm no longer a licensed motor coach or bus operator. This will never stop me from being a fan of buses, motor coaches, and the industry as a whole. In my 22-plus career behind the wheel, I have driven everything from the MC-9 and full-size school buses to articulated transit and TD925 Vanhools. I have never driven the new D4520 or the Mercedes Tourrider but I did drive the Tourrider's cousin the Setra TC 417 and it was a great coach. It operated a lot like what was demonstrated in the video like the way the Tourrider turns and there weren't any top-down 360 cameras to assist which would have greatly helped. What wasn't mentioned in the video is the Temsa TS45 or the Volvo 9700 the latter of the two I've driven and liked a lot when I drove one a few times. Honestly, now that I realize that I haven't answered the question lol I prefer the shorter tail swing on any bus or motor coach as there's less chance of worrying what that back end that you can't see always is going to cross paths with an object that suddenly decided to jump out at you. This is one reason why I dislike conventional school buses their tail seems to be longer than my Kia Soul. When I drove I always liked to feel that I was in control of the bus or coach and this meant all sides of the bus or coach. If a wider turn was necessary to keep control then give me the bus or coach with that short rear approach angle. To me, the best that gave me the most control early on in my career was the RTS and the MCI 102-DL3 at the end it was the Gillig Low Floor and either a Vanhool C model or MCI J4500.
Great information. I enjoy your videos. I've been driving school buses for over 10 years in the US and now I also drive part time for a motorcoach company. I love it will probably be making the transition fully over to the motorcoach world this spring. I haven't experienced it personally, thankfully, but I have seen a few tail swing accidents over the years. Once another bus driver in our fleet knocked off my driver's side side mirrors with his tail swing while making a hard left turn while passing too close to me in a parking lot. Stay safe out there, folks!
I remember before I could drive, I asked a coach operator about the tag axle, because I had seen it turn while he was parking. He had ZERO idea what I was talking about, and I was embarrassed for him. I went on to drive 40 and 45 footers, but ended up really preferring the really 'sporty' nature of the 40 footer since it was more maneuverable and still had the same engine as the 45 footer so it provided a better power to weight ratio.
European buses also have a much longer front overhang. That way they can shorten the wheelbase even further without making the rear overhang completely crazy.
Agreed, some service buses have long front overhangs. 👍 Also some countries have minimum turning radius requirements. I haven't seen it mentioned for a few years but UK buses and coaches used to have to be able to turn around completely in a circle of no more than 24m and that included the tail swing, so axle placement front and rear was critical. It might be that this has been overtaken by EU rules as buses are now longer than they once were.
8:13 Coming from the trucking and German driving background, I have been taught to take space by driving in both lanes "if necessary". I normally drive a truck in the 12 meter range ( length over bumper), but on rare occasions I'll need to drive a semi = less routine= a more careful driving style, like taking more space for turning
I m a sho manager but I also still drive and I agree 100 % with your video and I drive a Mercedes just like you do and I love it (San Diego, Highline Charter)
When we got the D series MCI’s years ago, always remembered to lock the tags when parked along the curbs. Saw two light poles get wiped out by other company drivers in Toronto in one day…. Oops…!
The tail swing is one of the things I pay very close attention to driving buses here in NYC. Since some of our bus stops are very near to things like sign posts and elevated train structures we have to be very mindful of our tailswings. The NovaBus LFS is one of the buses we have with a pretty short wheelbase, but only because the front wheels are pushed further back than the usual bus. I've seen front engine cabover school buses with very long tailswings due to not being able to have a longer driveshaft and wondered how some of them even get around the city!
Happy new year, James. I'm with you. I prefer longer wheel base, and shorter tail swing. I drove downtown NY, and streets there are as tight as European cities. Driving a 45er down there is tight. The issue with tail swing is always having to swivel your head between two mirrors, versus just one mirror with the longer wheelbase. And you HAVE to check the inside mirror, because pedestrians will walk right up to the body of the bus, right behind the front axle. Back when I was driving, it was common to nudge people. As in, making contact with people, and pushing them. Nowadays, with cell phones, and the randomness of what goes viral, I wouldn't recommend that. Defintely training helps. One thing that I had to get used to, was the wheelbase changing between steer tags and no steer. The wheelbase will be somewhere in the middle of the drives and tag axle for non steer tags, but not quite the middle (Unless you're driving a Mack coach LOL...not sure how many will get that one. That coach had it right in the middle of its drive and "tag" axle lol) The articulated ones are also tricky with big overhang, that you cannot see once in the turn. It is out of sight from mirrors, and if the bus has steering in the trailer (puller, not pushers like the Van Hools and some Volvos) you will have the same turn radius as a solo bus, even in the double artic, but the overhang will swing out, and now its really out of sight. Few operators deal with that though. What I would recommend for training, and what made me a good driver (literally shocked my trainer when I first drove, with him asking, "how long I had been driving coaches, me being 21 lol) was playing with toy buses. I even built my own lego bus (you saw it lol), and I played with it, and with working steering, it really teaches on the paths of tires. I know MC9s didnt have steer tags, but still. It really makes it noticeable. So maybe a line of models/toys that a driver can mess around with, maybe some printable roads to scale with that bus. The irony is, that once a drive hits something, they will learn forever, but then get fired. But seeing it, might help if they are visual learners, or learn by doing. Maybe. Sorry for the giant post. Hope you're doing well!
I loved this video about tail swing . I think it would be a lot of help for especially new drivers. Although if a company has several different brands then the driver needs plenty of extra training which sometimes is hard to get accomplished.
Regarding curbs: Sometimes bus drivers need to be really aware of how high the curb is and how low their vehicle sits. When I was last in Switzerland, I watched an ADL double decker Postbus depart from the bus station in St. Gallen and because the bus station has fairly high boarding curbs/platforms, and because the driver turned quite aggressively, he painfully scraped his overhang over the platform when departing. That didn‘t look healthy for the bus‘ underside.
Good info a procedure that's over looked too often , be aware of when parking and what's around when turning when in doubt check it out ! It also shows your awareness and professionalism..
Very interesting video. I always wondered about tail swing on busses, and you explained it so clearly. Cheers. Another video dedicated to pressure from traffic could be compelling. Lots to dive into with this phenomena: psychology of peer pressure, its effects, tips on how to manage it, where are the hotspots, and its universality.
3:40 I recognize the bus drawing used. It’s one of the templates I use for designing bus liveries. (No, my designs aren’t commissioned, I just do it for fun.)
As a regular driver of a British Mercedes Tourismo I take up both lanes when I’m turning Right or left so I don’t take any risk with the rear end swing
I really enjoyed this presentation. In NYC the thing that I look for are traffic signs that stuck out into the parking lane. So as you're turning into the traffic lanes, if not careful you can put a long gash through your windows or the side of the bus.
J4500 driver here .. when I take a turn I walk the rear wheel around the curb but I've also learned that if aim to put the left lane line of the lane i'm turning into under my steering wheel then cut over to the right I can make right turns and clear the curb every time. The J4500 requires about 1/2 intrusion into the next lane on the right turn to clear a curb. Of course if there is traffic - i stop and wait to clear. For tail swing, I watch that side view and convex like a hawk.
Hi James Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. I've had some Motor Coach operators who used to work for Greyhound Canada tell me that Rear Axle Steering (Tag Steering) is a great feature, Unfortunately, as that steering system gets older, it can become more problematic and even cause the Tag Axle to suddenly steer at high speeds. In the end they had to remove the steering system and then put in a fixed structure to hold the Tag Axle permanently.
Yes totally accurate! We ended up doing that with all of our older d models from MCI. We no longer have any d models from MCI as we phase them all out. But that was a big problem with older MCID models.
So we just gonna act like Temsa doesn’t exist??? Damn James, that’s cold. 🤣 Well, you know I’m Team MCI and stand on that in the MCO group. Sticking to the topic, I think it’s a good balance of turn radius/tail swing and the passive tag helps. But I had that Temsa demo for months when I was at Academy. It’s wheelbase and overhang are similar to the Tourrider if I’m not mistaken, and also has an active tag, I believe their turn radius is a difference of .2”. While you do have to mind tail swing in tight situations I find overall you don’t have to work the bus so much in your typical overall drive/turn. Smaller wheel base plus active tag means less work on the steering wheel to make the turn. Bit of a trade off really. Tighter situation can be more tricky, but average scenarios are less work.
lol, no il intentions towards Temsa. I don't know much about them. Never driven the 45 footer before. I would love to get in one and test drive it so that I have some kind of impression.
Interestingly, also with trucks in the USA the federal limit is 80k lbs (around 36 tonnes). The standard European limit is 40 tonnes. And we have off the shelf engine options up to 770 hp
Been Busdriver/ coach driver in Finland, sometimes I love our buses. There's so many places were we couldn't go with hard axle coach. We were in north in one arena and I had good really well turning bus and collega had hard rear axle and he couldn't drive out of the arena cause there was no room. Basically even worse moment I did have problems but with my turning rear axle I did made it.
Another option is Volvo's motorcoach. The front wheels are set back further than MCI, etc. Drivers have to go deeper into the turn before cranking the wheel. In tight spot left turn, I've had the front bumper hanging over the curb. My preference is MCI J4500 with trailing link tag axle. On long hauls (Seattle to Los Angeles) the ride is super smooth while it handles the tight spaces of downtown Seattle. Backing in to parallel parking with active tag sterring can be very challenging.
If you have to only use mirrors then a good trick I learned to combat the lack of depth perception is to look for a gap of light between the bus and the obstacle. As long as you can see a clear gap between you and the object then you’re definitely not going to hit it. Once you’re pulled far enough forward that you know you’re clear of it then you can turn tighter and swing past it where it’s clear.
I prefer a short wheelbase coach because of the turning radius, I always try to backup if possible, first, before pulling out of a parking space (Parallel Parking) Great video James
The best motor coach to this day I like to drive is the Prevost H3-45, unfortunately the company I drive for only has 3 (2010 model year) of the 3 only 1 that runs. The next best thing I drive is the 2019 MCI J 4500, when I do a curb pick up, I try and angle the bus so the front tires will be on the curbside for easy entry, but the back wheels will be about 2 feet away from the curb. That way when you pull back into the main road you won't have to watch the tail so much, I know it is not possible to do that at all stops, but it does help keep my eyes looking forward.
I drove a Prevost Mirage….it was the last one they had with a 5-speed manual….it was my favorite….no one else wanted to drive it, so it was pretty much my assigned bus whenever I worked….it also may have been the fastest bus I ever drove.
@@rogerlewis1361 I rode one of those Le Mirage when I was in High school, we went on a long field trip and the school hired All West Tours out of Napa, California, I was too young to drive but I knew at that time I wanted to drive bus. I watched that guy the whole-time shifting gears and raising and lowering the tag axle. When I was in my late 20's I started working for a bus company on Maui and they only had Prevost. No stick shift models but I cut my teeth on a 1978 Prestige, then graduated to an 1982 Le Mirage, then 94 Le Mirage XL, then 1997 H3-41's then 1998 H3-45's. Love Prevost.
I do not have the bus endorsements, but your advice of walking around and understanding the behavior of one's vehicle is applicable to driving a tractor trailer also. For the ride issues, I am looking into extending my wheelbase.
Part of my mental process when driving is whether I'm coming up to a turn or pulling into a place to park, I'm already scouting out various objects my tail could strike and positioning my bus in such a way to give my tail room before I commit to making a turn. If there is a lot going on and the turn looks like it will be tight, I take those few extra seconds to make sure I see where everything is at. Sadly, I don't think all new drivers are taught this.
We recently got brand new Yutong U15's here in (and around) the city of Leiden, The Netherlands. These giants are 15 meters long and do in fact have a huge tail swing. If you're not used to it, you are going to get damage easily. If you check those buses, you will find a lot of them with damage already. Although damage can always happen, these buses are being put on lines where they aren't supposed to go. I'm used to driving these 15 meters, so to me it's not a big of a deal. And if necessary, I wil position my bus on more than one lane to turn, in order to avoid other cars getting in my way for their and my safety.
As a Norwegian Coach driver I prefer shorter wheelbase’s for better turning radius. What I do to handle tight corners or turns where my tail can hit another vehicle is just to block both lanes. That is what I was trained to do during my drivers license for class D ( Bus ). And also I try to avoid turning the wheel to much when driving out of bus stops or parking spots to avoid hitting people standing on the bus stop or a fence or any other object like what you explained.
One the best examples of tail swing that i have ever seen came from a slide bed tow truck I watched him take the top off a car doing a u turn most slide bed have a wicked tail swing and what's hanging out there is mostly steel
Another way to shorten the wheelbase without increasing tail swing is by moving the front wheel back, increasing front overhang. One thing I always notice when comparing american buses to european ones is how short the front overhang is. Personally I love the look of front swing as well, so I really like long front overhangs.
Here I go again James, Another story... We had a driver that never did get the hang of steering tags liking to whack things at the right rear corner (think poles, parking meters and trash cans). You would think he would be in a great deal of trouble, but nope. His secret was that he was from a famous family known for BBQ! He was an expert (we all know Kansas City has the best BBQ), and he used to bring in the best BBQ Brisket with homemade sauce. He used to treat the entire bus shop (C&J Bus Repair in Bloomington, MN) to homemade BBQ along with the senior drivers, the owner and his family! That man could not do any wrong! 🤣🤣 Yes, I know you work for large companies, but this was a small one (only 10 busses). True story!
@James, I always thought the VanHool T800-45 has the worst overhang/tail swing, pretty crazy, took off some mirrors with the rear end of that model in my heyday, not proud of it though, i wouldn't want to be the victim of missing mirrors on my personal vehicle. Btw, Happy New Year from Hawai'i 🙂
James, thank you for sharing this important information. Based on my practice driving many type of buses, coaches, lorries, artics, heavy haulage vehicles and training drivers on them as well... There are 2 more important factors, and these are the front overhang and more important is the turning degree of the steering wheels. These differ on the European buses comparing to the North American units, contributing to the better manoeuvrability, and stronger swing. The same applies to lorries. A good trainer will always remind you of the swing and the fact that the rear axle is your "boss" while driving until this will be part of your blood flow.
Well, I drive a Navistar International CE 72 passenger, so I have more than a yard of tail swing. One thing I recommend when in busy traffic is to send your tail into a gap. Look at traffic coming in the lane next to you and time your turn, so your tail goes into the space between cars. That short clip with the school bus nearly hitting the girl is from one of the school bus training videos, and it is an excellent example and worth watching if you can find it.
Hey James. I am sure there are a couple of reasons why you do not include them, but I wish Volvo 9700 and Temsa TS45 were considered in your comparisons. Otherwise, great Videos and I will look for you at UMA 2025. Thanks!
@@DrewAnderwald I did not include them because those are coaches I have never driven before and really do not know much about. And I don't like to talk about things I don't know anything about lol. It was not out of any kind of disrespect to Volvo or temsa.
@@MotorcoachWorld Hey James, I figured as much since I have never noticed those brands in the background of any of the videos you post. But anyways, thanks for sharing your videos. I have started sharing them with our drivers for training and perspective.
In working for Canada Greyhound, we still had quite a few 40’ back in 2001. I believe most of the buses were 45’ 102 series buses with some of The D series was just coming into play at that time. I found those were quite manageable for tail swing. We were certainly taught about and were very conspicuous of it. I was always consciously of taking it easier pulling out leave plenty of room in front for smooth pull outs and I never had a problem…the amount of tail swing can be impressive and on those could easily swing a foot over the curve. I would prefer less tail swing over the smaller turning radius to prevent ping people, parking meters or fire hydrants. It only takes one time forgetting. You might as well reduce the risk.. driving something that big you are prepared for finding the appropriate roads and cornering appropriately. Driving with GCX trailers didn’t affect things too much.
Hello James as a motor coach operator in the Northeast I absolutely agree with the statement it's definitely not easy but after my first year of being a motor coach operator I wouldn't want any other job at this point nothing in the world glides like a motor coach
I drive the rear of the bus as much as I drive the front of the bus. I also watch the corner of my bus each time i turn and know where my corners are at and are going.
For whatever reason, this is even more pronounced in school buses, at least here in central Canada. There are a few longer-wheelbase units, but most still have the rear axle directly under the center of gravity. Also, you don't need a bus for this - long pickup trucks or vans also suffer from tail swing. (And so did my dad's coupe, back in the '70s although obviously not as extreme as a bus.)
A lot of good common sence ,l have retired from coach driving( and repairing) after 52 years driving in the uk and Europe . Mainly Bova coaches, l have driven 15 mtr coaches but not enough benefit for me to by them. Im a London boy and after passing my psv l used to do London tours with one of my dad's coaches ,a Bedford VAL, those were the days!
The new temsa ts 45 has a wheelbase of 310.8 (25 feet) rear overhang 112 (9feet 4in) and turning radius is 40.2 feet.... I had to comment because I'm currently driving one every for academy
When I drove a mini bus with a long tail swing, when I parked on the streets, I wouldn't park it parallel to the curb but with the back end farther from the curb. There are parking meters close by that my back end would hit it when I pull out. This one dumba$$ hotel porter would always make fun of me and call me a bad driver to my face for 'not being able to park straight.' I always laughed it off never wasted time explaining to him why I did what I did.
The tail swing is indeed much harder to manage, however we need the turning radius here in the tight streets of the Netherlands even harder. Al bus drivers here have at least once experienced hitting their tail, sacrificing a tail marker light. But it will become a second nature and you will be able manoeuvre in the tightest spots.
I was recently driving for a mexican company operating in the USA and we drove 15 meter Volvos 9800. Longer but they turned so easily. But that design is very european design, the steer axle sits way back
Before the back up camera was integrated into the dash I used to like to turn on the camera when making a tight turn as an extra tool to see behind my coach. Obviously that would never replace using your mirrors and getting out and look but it was a valuable extra tool. I hate the newer dash cams as your no longer able to turn on the camera unless in reverse
driving a 53 foot trailer rookies loved riding the tandems super far forward not surprising catching the tail on something was a common low speed crash. ive always said if you want to look like a pro suck up your ego and if you need to pull the brakes and give the vehicle 360 look to see whats around nothing says rookie more than clobbering a fire hydrant or tree with the last 3 inches of the bus
I used to have more of a issue with Front swing on the buses. Tail swing really didn't bother me being that I drove School busses for many years before switching to coaches and school busses have unbelievable tail swing
We had a Lorry/Truck that had a big tailswing and the driver never realised it,had to explain it to him after he almost took a wall out i dont have the licence to drive it but its the same principle as a trailer tail swing on a tractor like
I’m intrigued. I drive a 144” wheelbase Sprinter, not as a bus- I have converted it to use as my personal transportable office- but Mercedes cites my 2500 SRW model as having a turning “radius” of 45 ft, which I consider impressive- it is a joy to drive as my daily driver personal car, even though with the rear step and impact bumper license plate frame it’s about 20.5 feet long and does not quite fit in a 20’ parking spot… but with all the crew cab pickups, hanging out a bit is less unacceptable then it once was. Thing is, there is no way a 45’ bus can turn in less than 45’ of space, manifestly. Thus, I must conclude that unlike for most cars where “radius” is really referencing “diameter” (which is about what my van takes for a wall-wall u-turn, I’ve measured) a bus is referencing something else. My question is what? I can imagine 39’ actually being a wall-wall “radius” so the wall-wall U would have a “diameter” of 78’, but that seems almost very difficult to manage, and in any case I know dually 144” Sprinters actually turn considerably tighter than SRWs, and that the imperative for maneuverability and the lack of mechanical bits within the wheel cut probably allows for a sharper cut. The other measurement I can come up with is that, given very sharp wheel cut, a short wheelbase relative to length, and relatively high ground clearance, it might actually be possible to cut a 39’ diameter of the wheels themselves, with the bus swinging far outside that circle but crossing over relatively low things like parking bumpers and curbs… but which is it? Or neither?
The maximum length for a inter city buss in Europe is 18.75 meter, but for that they have to be articulated. There is currently no intercity buss that is articulated in production (as far as i know). The 15 meter rule is only for non articulated busses. Its worth saying that for city busses, the city them self can make a length exception and they can be pretty much what ever length they want them to be.
Great vid 👍! I am with you....I'm in Manitoba so I have the luxury of not having a huge city...so I much rather prefer the Prevost X3..it rides the best. I'll take seeing turns in front of me rather than behind me! The ass end actually is a lot like my MCI D4005....just a stubby 😂
My 2000 Prevost H3-45 has a pretty wicked swing... But with a practice and a LOT of mindfulness and awareness of what's around you, it's not difficult to manage. I personally prefer the longer wheelbase of the H3 vs, say, a school bus. I've driven a few skoolies over the years (conversion buses for camping/tiny house/etc) and I'm a fan of the H3, hands down. My 2nd favorite bus I ever drove was a GMC PD-4905, an old Greyhound coach. That was a nice one, too... but not 45ft in length like my H3. It was also a single axle in the rear, not a dual like the H3. Its ride was decent, but the Prevost kindof put that old girl to shame on ride quality. Just a side note.... I'm not a professional driver. The buses I've driven were my own for various purposes from campers to RVs and even just as a moving vehicle to haul all my crap in back when I moved around a lot all over the country for work. Tail swing was the first thing I had to learn to manage and not once have I ever struck an object. Good to see ya again mate!
I wonder if steerable tag axle would make difference when driving on highways especially when changing lanes at high speed. i heard it makes lane changes a bit more "sudden" compared to those without steerable tag axle
Thats a great question! On most Coach buses, If they posses a steerable tag axle, the axle will lock the wheels forward if the coach exceeds 15 MPH or somewhere around there. That is to insure stability while the coach is traveling in high speeds.
What James said. Also I've driven with broken tag axle steering, the tag passively steering like a trailer. You don't even notice it unless it's very windy.
SETRA bus is easy to drive just be careful your tag ,I LIKE vanhool buses they need more room to make turn in general vanhool is between mci and prevost dosent need alot of room to make turn
I am a coach driver in europe ( belgium). I also think that the tail swing of european coaches is a lot more because we need that smaller wheelbase for driving on the smaller roads in europe. The VDL dubbeldecker has a more similar wheelbase as an american coach, which makes it sometimes a weird experience to drive it because your not used to it being les able to take tight turns. If you ever have the change you should take a ride in an Irizar I8, that coach has a tail swing so large, you need to order 10 rear bumpers in advance because it is just a matter of time.....
I drive a taxi in Wisconsin, I have a lot of respect for bus and semi drivers, stay safe out there and thanks for all you do.
Hey James its great to see you again. I have been driving 40 ft school buses for 50 years. One of the most common mistakes
Ive seen bus drivers make is not leaving enough room from the vehicle next to them when making a turn. You have to have what I call proper "set up" for your turn. Allow proper distance from the vehicle next to you and dont begin turning too sharp too quickly. (Sorry, I was an instructor for many years) Anyway.......Happy New Year James!
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I start training for Mears Transportation in Orlando, FL this weekend, these videos are super helpful and lowers my stress on learning how to operate a motorcoach. 😄
Logged thousands of miles in the X-3. Really great coach to navigate in tight city turns and navigation. The air tag was an added bonus.
We in the trucking industry have the same problem. Trailer axles can be moved back and forth for weight distribution. Just like busses, the more we slide the axles up, the bigger tail swing we have to think about. I’ve learned the best way to combat this is to make turns much more gradually, and when it doubt, safely take up another lane to complete the turn. That’s why trip planning or as James likes to call it “Homework” is key. Know where all your turns are along the route and plan your lane position before getting to them.
Even long after I’ve stopped driving buses, I will enjoy watching your videos! Great to see you presenting at UMA in a topic YOU have inadvertently created that has helped the industry 😁
Thanks for the kind words! Much appreciated 👍
I take up both lanes when I’m turning Right 😂 We miss you James.
As a semi retired UK driver, your tips I think are spot-on, very helpful for a new recruit. My vehicle of comfort is 40 ft two axle. The coaches pictured look quite scary to me, but as you say the roads are more suited in the US. When I started out, one of the older drivers gave me a tip I will never forget. He said; "Never make it hard for yourself" meaning for instance, if going round the block saves you reversing, then go round the block!! Great video thank you.
A European coach driver here. Our 14.1m Astromegas have a skibox in the back making it full 15m or 49.2ft. With a steered tag axle that gives an effective rear overhang of 5.5m or 18ft. The tail swings out five and half feet! Most of our other coaches are 15m without skibox, rear overhang being that 80cm shorter. Both types require the same amount of space in street corners, but you have to place the vehicle differently when approaching the turn. If you remember what kind of vehicle you are driving, it's not a problem at all. I have smashed a rear corner only once in my 20 years of driving coaches.
For making those tight turns, we recommend our drivers to start the turn from the middle of two lanes, blocking both lanes from passing cars.
Explain the smash part
@@RohanSanjith That was a classic mistake, forgot that there was a light pole on the sidewalk and steered full to the left.
As a driver of 15 meter Scania Irizar coach I find the biggest issue is not tail swing as such but the fact that most of the car drivers have no clue how a 15 meter coach is turning, so if possible I block two lanes in order to making a tight turn. For me it is important to know your vehicle - we used to have some 15 meter VDL Futura 2 coaches that had 40 cm longer wheelbase and a tag axle that turned in less angle compared to Scania, so whenever I had to switch from VDL to Scania or vice versa, I had to bear that in mind when maneuvering in tight corners. All of our coaches have outline marker lines on rubber necks so locating the rear end of the coach from the mirror is very easy. Newer coaches have cameras instead of mirrors and it is a lot harder to get the idea of depth perception from the camera feed.
As a coach bus driver here in Canada I also watch my turns and swings and my mirrors are always my best friend
I’m a transit bus operator and we do have some MCI’s D45 CRT LE. We run them on our express routes . We really don’t have too much of an issue with tail swing because most Transit buses stay oncity streets. We don’t usually
have to navigate parking lots or anything. Basically we just have to deal with tight city streets in downtown.
I drive a conventional school bus with the long overhang. If you have a 2nd lane going the same direction, and you need to make a sharp right turn, take up both lanes to stop cars from moving alongside you. Take the road space you need to be safe.
Unfortunately due to medical reasons, I'm no longer a licensed motor coach or bus operator. This will never stop me from being a fan of buses, motor coaches, and the industry as a whole. In my 22-plus career behind the wheel, I have driven everything from the MC-9 and full-size school buses to articulated transit and TD925 Vanhools. I have never driven the new D4520 or the Mercedes Tourrider but I did drive the Tourrider's cousin the Setra TC 417 and it was a great coach. It operated a lot like what was demonstrated in the video like the way the Tourrider turns and there weren't any top-down 360 cameras to assist which would have greatly helped. What wasn't mentioned in the video is the Temsa TS45 or the Volvo 9700 the latter of the two I've driven and liked a lot when I drove one a few times. Honestly, now that I realize that I haven't answered the question lol I prefer the shorter tail swing on any bus or motor coach as there's less chance of worrying what that back end that you can't see always is going to cross paths with an object that suddenly decided to jump out at you. This is one reason why I dislike conventional school buses their tail seems to be longer than my Kia Soul. When I drove I always liked to feel that I was in control of the bus or coach and this meant all sides of the bus or coach. If a wider turn was necessary to keep control then give me the bus or coach with that short rear approach angle. To me, the best that gave me the most control early on in my career was the RTS and the MCI 102-DL3 at the end it was the Gillig Low Floor and either a Vanhool C model or MCI J4500.
Great information. I enjoy your videos. I've been driving school buses for over 10 years in the US and now I also drive part time for a motorcoach company. I love it will probably be making the transition fully over to the motorcoach world this spring. I haven't experienced it personally, thankfully, but I have seen a few tail swing accidents over the years. Once another bus driver in our fleet knocked off my driver's side side mirrors with his tail swing while making a hard left turn while passing too close to me in a parking lot. Stay safe out there, folks!
I remember before I could drive, I asked a coach operator about the tag axle, because I had seen it turn while he was parking. He had ZERO idea what I was talking about, and I was embarrassed for him.
I went on to drive 40 and 45 footers, but ended up really preferring the really 'sporty' nature of the 40 footer since it was more maneuverable and still had the same engine as the 45 footer so it provided a better power to weight ratio.
European buses also have a much longer front overhang. That way they can shorten the wheelbase even further without making the rear overhang completely crazy.
Agreed, some service buses have long front overhangs. 👍 Also some countries have minimum turning radius requirements. I haven't seen it mentioned for a few years but UK buses and coaches used to have to be able to turn around completely in a circle of no more than 24m and that included the tail swing, so axle placement front and rear was critical. It might be that this has been overtaken by EU rules as buses are now longer than they once were.
@@Pesmog EU does have strict rules for that.
8:13
Coming from the trucking and German driving background, I have been taught to take space by driving in both lanes "if necessary".
I normally drive a truck in the 12 meter range ( length over bumper), but on rare occasions I'll need to drive a semi = less routine= a more careful driving style, like taking more space for turning
I m a sho manager but I also still drive and I agree 100 % with your video and I drive a Mercedes just like you do and I love it (San Diego, Highline Charter)
Happy New Year! Another very interesting video. I’m not a coach driver but have always found buses interesting. 👍👍
When we got the D series MCI’s years ago, always remembered to lock the tags when parked along the curbs. Saw two light poles get wiped out by other company drivers in Toronto in one day…. Oops…!
The tail swing is one of the things I pay very close attention to driving buses here in NYC.
Since some of our bus stops are very near to things like sign posts and elevated train structures we have to be very mindful of our tailswings. The NovaBus LFS is one of the buses we have with a pretty short wheelbase, but only because the front wheels are pushed further back than the usual bus. I've seen front engine cabover school buses with very long tailswings due to not being able to have a longer driveshaft and wondered how some of them even get around the city!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you James!
Loving the videos!
Happy new year, James. I'm with you. I prefer longer wheel base, and shorter tail swing. I drove downtown NY, and streets there are as tight as European cities. Driving a 45er down there is tight. The issue with tail swing is always having to swivel your head between two mirrors, versus just one mirror with the longer wheelbase. And you HAVE to check the inside mirror, because pedestrians will walk right up to the body of the bus, right behind the front axle.
Back when I was driving, it was common to nudge people. As in, making contact with people, and pushing them. Nowadays, with cell phones, and the randomness of what goes viral, I wouldn't recommend that. Defintely training helps.
One thing that I had to get used to, was the wheelbase changing between steer tags and no steer. The wheelbase will be somewhere in the middle of the drives and tag axle for non steer tags, but not quite the middle (Unless you're driving a Mack coach LOL...not sure how many will get that one. That coach had it right in the middle of its drive and "tag" axle lol)
The articulated ones are also tricky with big overhang, that you cannot see once in the turn. It is out of sight from mirrors, and if the bus has steering in the trailer (puller, not pushers like the Van Hools and some Volvos) you will have the same turn radius as a solo bus, even in the double artic, but the overhang will swing out, and now its really out of sight. Few operators deal with that though.
What I would recommend for training, and what made me a good driver (literally shocked my trainer when I first drove, with him asking, "how long I had been driving coaches, me being 21 lol) was playing with toy buses. I even built my own lego bus (you saw it lol), and I played with it, and with working steering, it really teaches on the paths of tires. I know MC9s didnt have steer tags, but still. It really makes it noticeable. So maybe a line of models/toys that a driver can mess around with, maybe some printable roads to scale with that bus.
The irony is, that once a drive hits something, they will learn forever, but then get fired. But seeing it, might help if they are visual learners, or learn by doing. Maybe.
Sorry for the giant post. Hope you're doing well!
Happy new year Alex! Good to hear from you!
Tail swing is major in a tandem axle dump truck as well. Yikes!
When I worked as a bus driver, I drove a 13-meter Setra with a steered tag axle. She drove wonderfully.
I loved this video about tail swing . I think it would be a lot of help for especially new drivers. Although if a company has several different brands then the driver needs plenty of extra training which sometimes is hard to get accomplished.
Your videos are very interesting and informative. I'm a bus enthusiast and bus driver from Queensland Australia.
The only time I had an incident was due to tail swing in a legacy 102DL3. Left bumperette caught a pole pulling into the shop. Great video
4 wheelers need to know this!
Thanks for the great and well done Video. I will use it for training my drivers.
Regarding curbs: Sometimes bus drivers need to be really aware of how high the curb is and how low their vehicle sits. When I was last in Switzerland, I watched an ADL double decker Postbus depart from the bus station in St. Gallen and because the bus station has fairly high boarding curbs/platforms, and because the driver turned quite aggressively, he painfully scraped his overhang over the platform when departing. That didn‘t look healthy for the bus‘ underside.
James
Excellent tail swing lesson for all CDL drivers.
Thank you
Hey James! Looking good. I'm sure you've been too busy to make videos and I can appreciate that. Wishing you much success!
My Favorite Intro! Purple Fire!
THANK YOU FOR THIS VALUABLE INFORMATION
Good info a procedure that's over looked too often , be aware of when parking and what's around when turning when in doubt check it out ! It also shows your awareness and professionalism..
Very interesting video. I always wondered about tail swing on busses, and you explained it so clearly. Cheers. Another video dedicated to pressure from traffic could be compelling. Lots to dive into with this phenomena: psychology of peer pressure, its effects, tips on how to manage it, where are the hotspots, and its universality.
3:40 I recognize the bus drawing used. It’s one of the templates I use for designing bus liveries. (No, my designs aren’t commissioned, I just do it for fun.)
As a regular driver of a British Mercedes Tourismo I take up both lanes when I’m turning Right or left so I don’t take any risk with the rear end swing
I really enjoyed this presentation. In NYC the thing that I look for are traffic signs that stuck out into the parking lane.
So as you're turning into the traffic lanes, if not careful you can put a long gash through your windows or the side of the bus.
J4500 driver here .. when I take a turn I walk the rear wheel around the curb but I've also learned that if aim to put the left lane line of the lane i'm turning into under my steering wheel then cut over to the right I can make right turns and clear the curb every time. The J4500 requires about 1/2 intrusion into the next lane on the right turn to clear a curb. Of course if there is traffic - i stop and wait to clear.
For tail swing, I watch that side view and convex like a hawk.
Love your videos. Congratulations on being a owner.
Hi James Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. I've had some Motor Coach operators who used to work for Greyhound Canada tell me that Rear Axle Steering (Tag Steering) is a great feature, Unfortunately, as that steering system gets older, it can become more problematic and even cause the Tag Axle to suddenly steer at high speeds.
In the end they had to remove the steering system and then put in a fixed structure to hold the Tag Axle permanently.
Yes totally accurate! We ended up doing that with all of our older d models from MCI. We no longer have any d models from MCI as we phase them all out. But that was a big problem with older MCID models.
@@MotorcoachWorld I hear because that reason. Prevost keep the TAG axle lift design and not switch to TAG axle steering like their competitor
So we just gonna act like Temsa doesn’t exist??? Damn James, that’s cold. 🤣
Well, you know I’m Team MCI and stand on that in the MCO group. Sticking to the topic, I think it’s a good balance of turn radius/tail swing and the passive tag helps. But I had that Temsa demo for months when I was at Academy. It’s wheelbase and overhang are similar to the Tourrider if I’m not mistaken, and also has an active tag, I believe their turn radius is a difference of .2”. While you do have to mind tail swing in tight situations I find overall you don’t have to work the bus so much in your typical overall drive/turn. Smaller wheel base plus active tag means less work on the steering wheel to make the turn. Bit of a trade off really. Tighter situation can be more tricky, but average scenarios are less work.
lol, no il intentions towards Temsa. I don't know much about them. Never driven the 45 footer before. I would love to get in one and test drive it so that I have some kind of impression.
Interestingly, also with trucks in the USA the federal limit is 80k lbs (around 36 tonnes). The standard European limit is 40 tonnes.
And we have off the shelf engine options up to 770 hp
Happy New Year
Been Busdriver/ coach driver in Finland, sometimes I love our buses. There's so many places were we couldn't go with hard axle coach. We were in north in one arena and I had good really well turning bus and collega had hard rear axle and he couldn't drive out of the arena cause there was no room. Basically even worse moment I did have problems but with my turning rear axle I did made it.
Another option is Volvo's motorcoach. The front wheels are set back further than MCI, etc. Drivers have to go deeper into the turn before cranking the wheel. In tight spot left turn, I've had the front bumper hanging over the curb. My preference is MCI J4500 with trailing link tag axle. On long hauls (Seattle to Los Angeles) the ride is super smooth while it handles the tight spaces of downtown Seattle. Backing in to parallel parking with active tag sterring can be very challenging.
If you have to only use mirrors then a good trick I learned to combat the lack of depth perception is to look for a gap of light between the bus and the obstacle. As long as you can see a clear gap between you and the object then you’re definitely not going to hit it. Once you’re pulled far enough forward that you know you’re clear of it then you can turn tighter and swing past it where it’s clear.
2:30 i started with the Benz O303 while leaving in Germany 86 to 93.
I prefer a short wheelbase coach because of the turning radius, I always try to backup if possible, first, before pulling out of a parking space (Parallel Parking) Great video James
The best motor coach to this day I like to drive is the Prevost H3-45, unfortunately the company I drive for only has 3 (2010 model year) of the 3 only 1 that runs. The next best thing I drive is the 2019 MCI J 4500, when I do a curb pick up, I try and angle the bus so the front tires will be on the curbside for easy entry, but the back wheels will be about 2 feet away from the curb. That way when you pull back into the main road you won't have to watch the tail so much, I know it is not possible to do that at all stops, but it does help keep my eyes looking forward.
I drove a Prevost Mirage….it was the last one they had with a 5-speed manual….it was my favorite….no one else wanted to drive it, so it was pretty much my assigned bus whenever I worked….it also may have been the fastest bus I ever drove.
@@rogerlewis1361 I rode one of those Le Mirage when I was in High school, we went on a long field trip and the school hired All West Tours out of Napa, California, I was too young to drive but I knew at that time I wanted to drive bus. I watched that guy the whole-time shifting gears and raising and lowering the tag axle. When I was in my late 20's I started working for a bus company on Maui and they only had Prevost. No stick shift models but I cut my teeth on a 1978 Prestige, then graduated to an 1982 Le Mirage, then 94 Le Mirage XL, then 1997 H3-41's then 1998 H3-45's. Love Prevost.
Always interesting to learn something different.
Blessed 2025 James and look forward to more videos.
Always informative James great job
I do not have the bus endorsements, but your advice of walking around and understanding the behavior of one's vehicle is applicable to driving a tractor trailer also. For the ride issues, I am looking into extending my wheelbase.
In Queensland Australia we have do not overtake turning vehicle signs on all vehicles with a length starting at 7.5 meters long.
Part of my mental process when driving is whether I'm coming up to a turn or pulling into a place to park, I'm already scouting out various objects my tail could strike and positioning my bus in such a way to give my tail room before I commit to making a turn. If there is a lot going on and the turn looks like it will be tight, I take those few extra seconds to make sure I see where everything is at.
Sadly, I don't think all new drivers are taught this.
We recently got brand new Yutong U15's here in (and around) the city of Leiden, The Netherlands. These giants are 15 meters long and do in fact have a huge tail swing. If you're not used to it, you are going to get damage easily. If you check those buses, you will find a lot of them with damage already. Although damage can always happen, these buses are being put on lines where they aren't supposed to go. I'm used to driving these 15 meters, so to me it's not a big of a deal. And if necessary, I wil position my bus on more than one lane to turn, in order to avoid other cars getting in my way for their and my safety.
Yellow school buses are the worst big overhang compared to the Prevost or MCI
because the school buses are using truck chassis
As a Norwegian Coach driver I prefer shorter wheelbase’s for better turning radius. What I do to handle tight corners or turns where my tail can hit another vehicle is just to block both lanes. That is what I was trained to do during my drivers license for class D ( Bus ). And also I try to avoid turning the wheel to much when driving out of bus stops or parking spots to avoid hitting people standing on the bus stop or a fence or any other object like what you explained.
School buses sometimes make me nervous because they could slap into our car when changing lanes.
One the best examples of tail swing that i have ever seen came from a slide bed tow truck I watched him take the top off a car doing a u turn most slide bed have a wicked tail swing and what's hanging out there is mostly steel
Another way to shorten the wheelbase without increasing tail swing is by moving the front wheel back, increasing front overhang.
One thing I always notice when comparing american buses to european ones is how short the front overhang is.
Personally I love the look of front swing as well, so I really like long front overhangs.
Here I go again James, Another story... We had a driver that never did get the hang of steering tags liking to whack things at the right rear corner (think poles, parking meters and trash cans). You would think he would be in a great deal of trouble, but nope. His secret was that he was from a famous family known for BBQ! He was an expert (we all know Kansas City has the best BBQ), and he used to bring in the best BBQ Brisket with homemade sauce. He used to treat the entire bus shop (C&J Bus Repair in Bloomington, MN) to homemade BBQ along with the senior drivers, the owner and his family! That man could not do any wrong! 🤣🤣 Yes, I know you work for large companies, but this was a small one (only 10 busses). True story!
Lol I love your stories! This one made me laugh. I would love to try some of that BBQ!
@James, I always thought the VanHool T800-45 has the worst overhang/tail swing, pretty crazy, took off some mirrors with the rear end of that model in my heyday, not proud of it though, i wouldn't want to be the victim of missing mirrors on my personal vehicle.
Btw, Happy New Year from Hawai'i 🙂
James, thank you for sharing this important information.
Based on my practice driving many type of buses, coaches, lorries, artics, heavy haulage vehicles and training drivers on them as well...
There are 2 more important factors, and these are the front overhang and more important is the turning degree of the steering wheels. These differ on the European buses comparing to the North American units, contributing to the better manoeuvrability, and stronger swing. The same applies to lorries.
A good trainer will always remind you of the swing and the fact that the rear axle is your "boss" while driving until this will be part of your blood flow.
Well, I drive a Navistar International CE 72 passenger, so I have more than a yard of tail swing. One thing I recommend when in busy traffic is to send your tail into a gap. Look at traffic coming in the lane next to you and time your turn, so your tail goes into the space between cars.
That short clip with the school bus nearly hitting the girl is from one of the school bus training videos, and it is an excellent example and worth watching if you can find it.
Hey James. I am sure there are a couple of reasons why you do not include them, but I wish Volvo 9700 and Temsa TS45 were considered in your comparisons. Otherwise, great Videos and I will look for you at UMA 2025. Thanks!
@@DrewAnderwald I did not include them because those are coaches I have never driven before and really do not know much about. And I don't like to talk about things I don't know anything about lol. It was not out of any kind of disrespect to Volvo or temsa.
@@MotorcoachWorld Hey James, I figured as much since I have never noticed those brands in the background of any of the videos you post. But anyways, thanks for sharing your videos. I have started sharing them with our drivers for training and perspective.
@@DrewAnderwald I appreciate the kind words and I am stoked that my videos can help drivers as far as training goes. Thank you
In working for Canada Greyhound, we still had quite a few 40’ back in 2001. I believe most of the buses were 45’ 102 series buses with some of The D series was just coming into play at that time. I found those were quite manageable for tail swing. We were certainly taught about and were very conspicuous of it. I was always consciously of taking it easier pulling out leave plenty of room in front for smooth pull outs and I never had a problem…the amount of tail swing can be impressive and on those could easily swing a foot over the curve. I would prefer less tail swing over the smaller turning radius to prevent ping people, parking meters or fire hydrants. It only takes one time forgetting. You might as well reduce the risk.. driving something that big you are prepared for finding the appropriate roads and cornering appropriately. Driving with GCX trailers didn’t affect things too much.
Hello James as a motor coach operator in the Northeast I absolutely agree with the statement it's definitely not easy but after my first year of being a motor coach operator I wouldn't want any other job at this point nothing in the world glides like a motor coach
well said perfect imfo
I drive the rear of the bus as much as I drive the front of the bus. I also watch the corner of my bus each time i turn and know where my corners are at and are going.
For whatever reason, this is even more pronounced in school buses, at least here in central Canada. There are a few longer-wheelbase units, but most still have the rear axle directly under the center of gravity.
Also, you don't need a bus for this - long pickup trucks or vans also suffer from tail swing. (And so did my dad's coupe, back in the '70s although obviously not as extreme as a bus.)
A lot of good common sence ,l have retired from coach driving( and repairing) after 52 years driving in the uk and Europe . Mainly Bova coaches, l have driven 15 mtr coaches but not enough benefit for me to by them. Im a London boy and after passing my psv l used to do London tours with one of my dad's coaches ,a Bedford VAL, those were the days!
The new temsa ts 45 has a wheelbase of 310.8 (25 feet) rear overhang 112 (9feet 4in) and turning radius is 40.2 feet.... I had to comment because I'm currently driving one every for academy
I prefer something in the middle, My two favorite buses to run is the MCI D model and the Temsa TS-45. They are a happy medium for me.
To put a 12.5' rear overhang in perspective, that's the overall length of a Toyota Yaris hatchback.
If I can block up all lanes enough to keep anyone from trying to go around me while I’m turning.
Wen is the company coming to the uk and Australia
When I drove a mini bus with a long tail swing, when I parked on the streets, I wouldn't park it parallel to the curb but with the back end farther from the curb. There are parking meters close by that my back end would hit it when I pull out. This one dumba$$ hotel porter would always make fun of me and call me a bad driver to my face for 'not being able to park straight.' I always laughed it off never wasted time explaining to him why I did what I did.
The tail swing is indeed much harder to manage, however we need the turning radius here in the tight streets of the Netherlands even harder. Al bus drivers here have at least once experienced hitting their tail, sacrificing a tail marker light. But it will become a second nature and you will be able manoeuvre in the tightest spots.
Vanhools can raise the tag axle for an even longer tail swing. :P
Happy New Yewr 🎉
Hey Happy new year!
I was recently driving for a mexican company operating in the USA and we drove 15 meter Volvos 9800. Longer but they turned so easily. But that design is very european design, the steer axle sits way back
Before the back up camera was integrated into the dash I used to like to turn on the camera when making a tight turn as an extra tool to see behind my coach. Obviously that would never replace using your mirrors and getting out and look but it was a valuable extra tool. I hate the newer dash cams as your no longer able to turn on the camera unless in reverse
driving a 53 foot trailer rookies loved riding the tandems super far forward not surprising catching the tail on something was a common low speed crash.
ive always said if you want to look like a pro suck up your ego and if you need to pull the brakes and give the vehicle 360 look to see whats around
nothing says rookie more than clobbering a fire hydrant or tree with the last 3 inches of the bus
You can really tell which mfrs are euro by their turning radius and wheelbase xD
I used to have more of a issue with Front swing on the buses. Tail swing really didn't bother me being that I drove School busses for many years before switching to coaches and school busses have unbelievable tail swing
You should look into the Alstom Aptis, it will throw of your idea of wheelbase, overhang and turningradius completely.
We had a Lorry/Truck that had a big tailswing and the driver never realised it,had to explain it to him after he almost took a wall out i dont have the licence to drive it but its the same principle as a trailer tail swing on a tractor like
I’m intrigued. I drive a 144” wheelbase Sprinter, not as a bus- I have converted it to use as my personal transportable office- but Mercedes cites my 2500 SRW model as having a turning “radius” of 45 ft, which I consider impressive- it is a joy to drive as my daily driver personal car, even though with the rear step and impact bumper license plate frame it’s about 20.5 feet long and does not quite fit in a 20’ parking spot… but with all the crew cab pickups, hanging out a bit is less unacceptable then it once was.
Thing is, there is no way a 45’ bus can turn in less than 45’ of space, manifestly. Thus, I must conclude that unlike for most cars where “radius” is really referencing “diameter” (which is about what my van takes for a wall-wall u-turn, I’ve measured) a bus is referencing something else. My question is what? I can imagine 39’ actually being a wall-wall “radius” so the wall-wall U would have a “diameter” of 78’, but that seems almost very difficult to manage, and in any case I know dually 144” Sprinters actually turn considerably tighter than SRWs, and that the imperative for maneuverability and the lack of mechanical bits within the wheel cut probably allows for a sharper cut.
The other measurement I can come up with is that, given very sharp wheel cut, a short wheelbase relative to length, and relatively high ground clearance, it might actually be possible to cut a 39’ diameter of the wheels themselves, with the bus swinging far outside that circle but crossing over relatively low things like parking bumpers and curbs… but which is it? Or neither?
The maximum length for a inter city buss in Europe is 18.75 meter, but for that they have to be articulated. There is currently no intercity buss that is articulated in production (as far as i know). The 15 meter rule is only for non articulated busses.
Its worth saying that for city busses, the city them self can make a length exception and they can be pretty much what ever length they want them to be.
Great vid 👍! I am with you....I'm in Manitoba so I have the luxury of not having a huge city...so I much rather prefer the Prevost X3..it rides the best. I'll take seeing turns in front of me rather than behind me! The ass end actually is a lot like my MCI D4005....just a stubby 😂
My 2000 Prevost H3-45 has a pretty wicked swing... But with a practice and a LOT of mindfulness and awareness of what's around you, it's not difficult to manage. I personally prefer the longer wheelbase of the H3 vs, say, a school bus. I've driven a few skoolies over the years (conversion buses for camping/tiny house/etc) and I'm a fan of the H3, hands down. My 2nd favorite bus I ever drove was a GMC PD-4905, an old Greyhound coach. That was a nice one, too... but not 45ft in length like my H3. It was also a single axle in the rear, not a dual like the H3. Its ride was decent, but the Prevost kindof put that old girl to shame on ride quality.
Just a side note.... I'm not a professional driver. The buses I've driven were my own for various purposes from campers to RVs and even just as a moving vehicle to haul all my crap in back when I moved around a lot all over the country for work. Tail swing was the first thing I had to learn to manage and not once have I ever struck an object.
Good to see ya again mate!
I wonder if steerable tag axle would make difference when driving on highways especially when changing lanes at high speed. i heard it makes lane changes a bit more "sudden" compared to those without steerable tag axle
Thats a great question! On most Coach buses, If they posses a steerable tag axle, the axle will lock the wheels forward if the coach exceeds 15 MPH or somewhere around there. That is to insure stability while the coach is traveling in high speeds.
What James said. Also I've driven with broken tag axle steering, the tag passively steering like a trailer. You don't even notice it unless it's very windy.
Are there rules for drivers that in a car pass the bus over 50 m.p.h while the bus is dropping off passengers?
SETRA bus is easy to drive just be careful your tag ,I LIKE vanhool buses they need more room to make turn in general vanhool is between mci and prevost dosent need alot of room to make turn
As a former school bus driver these have the worst tail swing.