I like how Madoc's lecture has him say "you can't force a character to do something just because it's easier for you as a writer", then what does he proceed to do?
Less than a tale of hope, the Dream of a Thousand Cats shows how dangerous the Corinthian truly was, when he tried to get a few hundred serial killers to dream of a world where they ruled
If you want to know more about Dream and Calliope's child you can find out some of it without spoiling the series by reading up on Greek mythology. Gaiman dips into all sorts of sources for Sandman, not just older DC comics but also Christianity (Lucifer, Hell) as filtered through Dante's Inferno and others, Greek mythology (the Fates, the Muses, and more to come), and other mythologies I won't specify because they'd be spoilers for what's to come. So if you dip into the Greek myths, and specifically those of Calliope, you can find out who her son was and what happened to him.
In the comic, Madoc sexually forcing himself on Calliope was explicitly stated and not just hinted at. It was also immediate, not when he got desperate. It also wasn’t clear (at least to me) that this is what gave him the inspiration. It felt he got that just by possessing her and the sexual assault was his way of establishing in his mind that she wasn’t a person, because he would never do that to an actual person. Some of season 2 was filmed before the strike, and we will see some of their son, hopefully that full story. Season one also did t give us the tale of Dream and Nada, which was issue 9, but that is very important to a major storyline next season, and unlike Game of Thrones, if they didn’t intend on showing it, they’d have cut that scene all together. I expect it will be in the premier
One thing the series doesn't go as much into as the comic is that the Endless look differently to whoever sees them. Anyone sees them as their own species usually, or if the person belives in a god of that Endless' aspect (a god of dreams, a god of death, etc.) they tend to look like/be that god. When we saw Dream talk to Nada in hell we were shown how she sees him, as the god of dreams she belives in. Desire also tend to look like whatever gender the person has the most prefference for (if any) which is why Rose's great-grandmother saw them as "a man with golden eyes".
Whether the cat's dream was real or not is certainly a matter of opinion, but if you remember in episode 10 The Corinthian was trying to get the crowd of killers to all dream of a world where they roamed free and murdered with impunity. Could have been a rhetorical device to liven up his speech, or if you accept the cat's story as real maybe he was trying to actually change the world.
Yeah, in the comics I feel it was a bit clearer that that was his plan the whole time: from the time Dream was captured, he spent his time inspiring serial killers because they're the sort of people who would want the sort of nightmare world that he desired. He really only got involved with Rose's story because she's the vortex and all of dreaming got sucked into her story. The show gave him a larger role as a co-conspirer with Desire, which is pretty understandable since he's such a cool villain.
I love the way, mostly in body language, this episode captures what it can be like to see an ex-spouse who you haven't seen recently. Also, what kind of writer doesn't have paper and pen (or some more modern alternative) on hand at all times? A writer who gets his ideas delivered to him whenever he wants them.
Reading the comics would not have given you any deeper history than you are getting watching the show. Aside from minor changes you are being introduced to everything the comic book readers or 1st time audiobook listeners would have received. We (the comic book readers) find out in issue #18 about Calliope's relationship to Dream because that's the issue the whole of this episode was from. An example of a minor changes would be things like Richard wasn't as hesitant in the comics as he was in the show. Having read other non-Sandman comics I've familiar with some of the characters Neil is using but none of their history was written specially for the Sandman comics so you knowing them doesn't give you much deeper insight. I am familiar with Dream and Calliope's son because I know some Greek Mythology. I'm pretty sure I read the tale of him going to Hade's for his lady love, as the Fates put it, when I was a teen. Obviously in Greek Mythology Dream isn't involved he's just incorporated into the comic's story. The name Calliope calls Dream is the name based on the Greek god of Sleep. So don't feel like you've missed anything by not having read the comics, you really haven't, except for why Nada is in Hell but they skipped that issue (#9) in the show. It will probably be in season 2. Otherwise you know almost as much as anyone who has read the first 18 issues of the comics. Fingers crossed and we get 4 0r 5 seasons to tell all of the stories, but Netflix doesn't have a great history of continuing shows past season 2. although they would likely still skip a few. Like the issue in the comics that follows this one features a very obscure super-hero as the focus so to introduce them to a non-comic book audience may be more trouble than it's worth to tell the story, which is another good one. So reading the comics isn't mandatory but highly recommended if you are enjoying what you've seen so far. Season one covers the first two volumes of collected reprints (minus issue 9 the second story in Volume 2) and the first 2 stories of Volume 3 (Dream County)
Based on the current rate that they're going through the comic, 4 seasons would be pretty much the perfect length to include everything as, in terms of the collected issues of the comics, this season covered about 2.5 out of the 10. Assuming the quality and audience numbers keep up for season 2, I think season 3 has an extremely good chance of happening. It's season 4 that I would be worried about, because of the way Netflix does business: their contracts with writers and actors generally have fairly low wages for the first 3 seasons, then promise everyone massive raises for season 4 ("Look how much you can make if your show is successful and lasts that long!") Then they cancel just about everything after season 3 to avoid having to pay that extra money. To get a season 4, a show pretty much has to be one of the top defining shows that people subscribe to Netflix specifically for, like Stranger Things. Just have to hope, though...
I really enjoyed your reactions and the Sandman. After thinking a while about the show and rewatching, Calliope I think is my favorite episode; they saved the best for last. It gives us sort of a culmination of themes of the human heart (and Dream’s) explored during the series, like hope, empathy, love and justice. This was really a special series. Now I am looking forward to the next season of Lupin. I think you would really enjoy that show; it’s another one that is not a huge commitment in length. If see the audience recommendation was stranger things, but if you go back to medieval historical dramatization, rather than Vikings I recommend The Last Kingdom, if you have not yet watched that. I would take any opportunity to rewatch that or another nice reaction anyway. It’s at least a couple of grades better than Vikings on several levels.
I cannot watch the part where the kittens are killed. Have to fast foward it every time. Still bothers me on a deep level. Edit: also, every time the second part starts I can't help but think "Look out, Rory! It's the Master!" (both actors were in Doctor Who).
@@andelain If you ever want to the reboot from 2005 is a good starting point. Going back to the original series (1963-1989) would be a lot and while there are some fantastic episodes the budget special effects are sometimes hard to take for modern viewers.
@@insomnaholic I think I attempted to start watching the reboot a couple of years ago, but it seemed soooo cheesy haha. Might just be one of those shows where it takes a few episodes to understand the tone or something? Or maybe I'd just finished watching something much more serious. Either way, I'm definitely thinking about giving it another go. :D
@@andelainYeah Doctor Who's tone is all over the place, it's often cheesy, the writing and lore are incredibly inconsistent, and most fans including huge ones like myself will gladly tell you that, it's part of the charm but definitely an acquired taste. What the show has is heart and enthusiasm, there are truly brilliant and emotional and meaningful episodes amongst the others and its often FUN, something a lot of shows these days forget about.
I like how Madoc's lecture has him say "you can't force a character to do something just because it's easier for you as a writer", then what does he proceed to do?
Less than a tale of hope, the Dream of a Thousand Cats shows how dangerous the Corinthian truly was, when he tried to get a few hundred serial killers to dream of a world where they ruled
I hadn't thought of that but that makes so much sense!
If you want to know more about Dream and Calliope's child you can find out some of it without spoiling the series by reading up on Greek mythology. Gaiman dips into all sorts of sources for Sandman, not just older DC comics but also Christianity (Lucifer, Hell) as filtered through Dante's Inferno and others, Greek mythology (the Fates, the Muses, and more to come), and other mythologies I won't specify because they'd be spoilers for what's to come. So if you dip into the Greek myths, and specifically those of Calliope, you can find out who her son was and what happened to him.
In the comic, Madoc sexually forcing himself on Calliope was explicitly stated and not just hinted at. It was also immediate, not when he got desperate. It also wasn’t clear (at least to me) that this is what gave him the inspiration. It felt he got that just by possessing her and the sexual assault was his way of establishing in his mind that she wasn’t a person, because he would never do that to an actual person.
Some of season 2 was filmed before the strike, and we will see some of their son, hopefully that full story.
Season one also did t give us the tale of Dream and Nada, which was issue 9, but that is very important to a major storyline next season, and unlike Game of Thrones, if they didn’t intend on showing it, they’d have cut that scene all together. I expect it will be in the premier
One thing the series doesn't go as much into as the comic is that the Endless look differently to whoever sees them. Anyone sees them as their own species usually, or if the person belives in a god of that Endless' aspect (a god of dreams, a god of death, etc.) they tend to look like/be that god. When we saw Dream talk to Nada in hell we were shown how she sees him, as the god of dreams she belives in. Desire also tend to look like whatever gender the person has the most prefference for (if any) which is why Rose's great-grandmother saw them as "a man with golden eyes".
So the endless are basically Vorlons? 😊
Whether the cat's dream was real or not is certainly a matter of opinion, but if you remember in episode 10 The Corinthian was trying to get the crowd of killers to all dream of a world where they roamed free and murdered with impunity. Could have been a rhetorical device to liven up his speech, or if you accept the cat's story as real maybe he was trying to actually change the world.
Yeah, in the comics I feel it was a bit clearer that that was his plan the whole time: from the time Dream was captured, he spent his time inspiring serial killers because they're the sort of people who would want the sort of nightmare world that he desired. He really only got involved with Rose's story because she's the vortex and all of dreaming got sucked into her story. The show gave him a larger role as a co-conspirer with Desire, which is pretty understandable since he's such a cool villain.
Calliope and Morpheus' relationship and their son become a very important part of the story going forward.
I love the way, mostly in body language, this episode captures what it can be like to see an ex-spouse who you haven't seen recently.
Also, what kind of writer doesn't have paper and pen (or some more modern alternative) on hand at all times? A writer who gets his ideas delivered to him whenever he wants them.
Huh. The whole first segment, in its entirety, being the dream of the kitten is something I hadn't considered.
Reading the comics would not have given you any deeper history than you are getting watching the show. Aside from minor changes you are being introduced to everything the comic book readers or 1st time audiobook listeners would have received. We (the comic book readers) find out in issue #18 about Calliope's relationship to Dream because that's the issue the whole of this episode was from. An example of a minor changes would be things like Richard wasn't as hesitant in the comics as he was in the show.
Having read other non-Sandman comics I've familiar with some of the characters Neil is using but none of their history was written specially for the Sandman comics so you knowing them doesn't give you much deeper insight.
I am familiar with Dream and Calliope's son because I know some Greek Mythology. I'm pretty sure I read the tale of him going to Hade's for his lady love, as the Fates put it, when I was a teen. Obviously in Greek Mythology Dream isn't involved he's just incorporated into the comic's story. The name Calliope calls Dream is the name based on the Greek god of Sleep.
So don't feel like you've missed anything by not having read the comics, you really haven't, except for why Nada is in Hell but they skipped that issue (#9) in the show. It will probably be in season 2. Otherwise you know almost as much as anyone who has read the first 18 issues of the comics.
Fingers crossed and we get 4 0r 5 seasons to tell all of the stories, but Netflix doesn't have a great history of continuing shows past season 2. although they would likely still skip a few. Like the issue in the comics that follows this one features a very obscure super-hero as the focus so to introduce them to a non-comic book audience may be more trouble than it's worth to tell the story, which is another good one.
So reading the comics isn't mandatory but highly recommended if you are enjoying what you've seen so far. Season one covers the first two volumes of collected reprints (minus issue 9 the second story in Volume 2) and the first 2 stories of Volume 3 (Dream County)
That's good to know! I'm definitely gonna read the comics at some point.
Based on the current rate that they're going through the comic, 4 seasons would be pretty much the perfect length to include everything as, in terms of the collected issues of the comics, this season covered about 2.5 out of the 10. Assuming the quality and audience numbers keep up for season 2, I think season 3 has an extremely good chance of happening. It's season 4 that I would be worried about, because of the way Netflix does business: their contracts with writers and actors generally have fairly low wages for the first 3 seasons, then promise everyone massive raises for season 4 ("Look how much you can make if your show is successful and lasts that long!") Then they cancel just about everything after season 3 to avoid having to pay that extra money. To get a season 4, a show pretty much has to be one of the top defining shows that people subscribe to Netflix specifically for, like Stranger Things. Just have to hope, though...
Throughout the season Dream is called by 6 different names. It is said that Dream collects names.
I really enjoyed your reactions and the Sandman. After thinking a while about the show and rewatching, Calliope I think is my favorite episode; they saved the best for last. It gives us sort of a culmination of themes of the human heart (and Dream’s) explored during the series, like hope, empathy, love and justice. This was really a special series. Now I am looking forward to the next season of Lupin. I think you would really enjoy that show; it’s another one that is not a huge commitment in length. If see the audience recommendation was stranger things, but if you go back to medieval historical dramatization, rather than Vikings I recommend The Last Kingdom, if you have not yet watched that. I would take any opportunity to rewatch that or another nice reaction anyway. It’s at least a couple of grades better than Vikings on several levels.
Thank you! The Last Kingdom is defintely on my list and I'll add Lupin too.
That kitten was definitely dreaming the dream of being able to play with humans and eat them at the end. 998 more to go.
Oh yeah, good point! I hadn't thought of that!
Grey Cat makes a compelling point, though. Try to get 1000 cats to do anything at the same time. Such individuality can have its pitfalls.
I cannot watch the part where the kittens are killed. Have to fast foward it every time. Still bothers me on a deep level.
Edit: also, every time the second part starts I can't help but think "Look out, Rory! It's the Master!" (both actors were in Doctor Who).
I have never actually watched Doctor Who! :O
@@andelain If you ever want to the reboot from 2005 is a good starting point. Going back to the original series (1963-1989) would be a lot and while there are some fantastic episodes the budget special effects are sometimes hard to take for modern viewers.
@@insomnaholic I think I attempted to start watching the reboot a couple of years ago, but it seemed soooo cheesy haha. Might just be one of those shows where it takes a few episodes to understand the tone or something? Or maybe I'd just finished watching something much more serious. Either way, I'm definitely thinking about giving it another go. :D
@@andelainYeah Doctor Who's tone is all over the place, it's often cheesy, the writing and lore are incredibly inconsistent, and most fans including huge ones like myself will gladly tell you that, it's part of the charm but definitely an acquired taste. What the show has is heart and enthusiasm, there are truly brilliant and emotional and meaningful episodes amongst the others and its often FUN, something a lot of shows these days forget about.