On top of that, mixers will generally also have to do a bit of production, arrangement and editing if they work with less professional clients. This takes a lot of time and often goes unnoticed
Thank you, that was a very helpful video. That was a clear and sensible break down of the rates for different tasks. I wanted to check they were in-line with what I expected. And they were, and that's reassuring.
Thanks man, currently getting my diploma in audio engineering, and this is super helpful for knowing what i can expect, what is realistic and what not.
I appreciate the way you chose to do this excellent video. You made a very persuasive case for those who work long term. From experience, I know that time is flexible but satisfaction is not. Our system of billing has been a far too well-kept secret. Covering the lower end of the spectrum was an excellent call as well, pointing out the enormous span of value involved in making a record. This is never a fun question for me to answer. I imagine no one enjoys telling an aspiring artist they will be paying 15x the previous time. You’ve done a great job explaining it.
Thank you, that’s very well said. It’s worth talking about rates because at the end of the day, it’s a marketplace with tangible values and expectations and negotiations of price.
Easy to calculate. If you want 20€/h as a worker, that's around 40€/h for the employer, then studio space rent is around 2000€/month so that's around 70€/day, plus all the gear that needs to be bought and kept up is at least a hundred/day depending on how much equipment studio has, then on top of that electricity is around 10€/day and on top of that all the misc stuff at least another 10€/day That comes up, for 8h day as around 520€/8 hour day AT THE MINIMUM! And that's not taking into account any PROFIT MARGINS so we can easily talk about 1000€/day for time of one tech + the studio space. And that's heavily dependent on how big the studio is and where it's located etc... And don't forget the PREP WORK! That takes time as well... so I'll say if someone's renting a studio for less than 1000€/8h day, they're very VERY small one man company without dedicated space that has rent and doesn't have much equipment. and don't even alk about taxes! So there. Now I'll see how close I got by watching the video....
Great Info! I'm a studio owner and would like to know if you can do a video on how to get new clients on a daily basis and what do you do for advertising besides word of mouth?
cool, can make a video on this - Alex Hormozi says there are only 4 ways to get new business: reach out to people you know, reach out to people you don't know, post on social media, run paid ads. So doing these things backed by a music centric strategy.
Very excellent video! Can you discuss the next phase, after getting paid? If I'm either an engineer, mastering engineer, or producer, what can I do to make myself official after getting paid? Would the revenue I receive remain "under the table"? Lol if you can make or guide me to a video of this process so i don't have to deal with the IRS and such that would be great! This is the one thing I can never land on to learn lol.
Good question - the best long term thing to do if you're going to be making a living from it is to set up a business LLC and pay some sort of taxes through it. Some of the gigs you'll do will pay cash so I'll leave that up to you how to handle it haha. But if music is your sole income, set up a proper business and do it right. It's also motivating to do this and it helps you think more clearly with a business mindset
@@lovesciencemusic YES!!! Lol I think I just need a video or some kind of source that walks me through the process step by step 😂😂. I would love to try and eventually do this full time. That’s the dream! Lol
Well, you don't need so much credits, awards etc. to have a higher rate as a mixer, producer; you just show clients your "out of this world" mixes and masters, and they'll pay you in a second if the sound of the mix, mastering work etc. is top notch. Or you show them your video on youtube that has 100M views and the problem with credits, awards is solved forever. That's the beauty of internet and modern technology - if you're good you'll shine through and nobody can stop you; not the location, nationality, who do you know in the buisiness, what awards did you get etc. 😄 p.s. Since 90% of the music business today is video and porn content that artist can deliver , all the above is not that important as it used to be when music was the most important thing of the whole package. If you listen to the top 40 songs in the last 10 years you ask yourself WTF happened with the top notch sound and arrangements (producing skills) of the 60', 70', 80' (especially 80's), 90', and early 2000's.
You’re right, the internet is the playing field and the quality of work speaks above all. And true, the producers used to always be top notch musicians and arrangers. Now that’s not so, but there’s still many musical powerhouse producers who are multi instrumentalists and can create music in DAWs. But obviously music is not a ‘merit based’ industry like sports so people have cracked the code to success via other means aside from talent and musicianship
Hey, This is really helpful video for me. I'm a songwriter from South Korea who now I live in UK. I worked only for company and now I am freelancer. I have clients that who want mastering recording 100% but also song credits 50%. they pay good money for me. but I'm wonder what is mastering recording? because as a songwriter I only got paid songwriting credit and work fee(not much).
If they are paying for the whole song to be written and produced, it’s prob fair for them to keep the master recording rights. This is a copyright ownership of that recording, it can generate payments when the music gets streamed or licensed. The producer and vocal/lyric writers of the song are entitled to a different copyright called the Writer and Publishing shares. This copyright is for those who created the musical work
Would a mixing engineer necessarily care about the music nearly as much as the artist, or would they need to understand the point the artist is trying to get across in their music ? And how do you know a mastering engineer isn't just running your stuff through some preset ? Would definitely need to have a working relationship for this sort of thing.
The good mixing engineers put their heart into, and take the records they work on to the next level... they are musicians too. Artists generally find a mixer who 'gets' their sound and they work together repeatedly. For mastering too, the good engineers are not phoning it in, it is their chosen craft and they are making the best musical choices they can
I have not found this to be the case. Residuals do not make a producer more valuable. The art they can claim, on the other hand, is a very persuasive justification for making a solid living.
Thanks for your perspective .Can you tell me what you would believe the average time in hours would be to properly mix an 18 track song with guitars bass drums keys and vocals?? Thanks
No prob - I'd say it depends a bit on the person mixing. But for me maybe half a day. Perhaps a full day if it was tricky or needed loads of processing
This varies but the initial mix with around 15 tracks is approx 4 hours. What happens after depends a lot on the people involved. Some acts are just delighted to hear their music shine so 4-5 hours is plenty. Some, however, will grind and grind over the most pointless of things so at 20+ hours you just hope they get hit by a bus as the results will always sound brutally tortured and no one will win anything. I quote 8-10 hours for the average mix ready-to-go. I also only work for people who have an open conversation before we commit to anything (like quotes etc). I have learned that anyone unwilling to discuss is almost guaranteed to be a pig as they touch-park their (often already troubled) song into oblivion. People who converse openly and share their passion tend to be the ones who are realistic about helping what they have shine. :-)
@@BenedictRoffMarsh 😂 I charge a flat rate and then revision fees for more than 2 revisions. And yea, many people labor over details that don’t really matter in the macro. Better to finish songs swiftly and move on to the next
I don't believe all those knobs and switches in a recording studio can possible be necessary or regularly used. I think they're just trying to make it look complicated so they can charge a lot.
It's just a couple knobs for different inputs/outputs, if you have 2 mics you won't use a lot. If you have 10 mics, 4 amps, 2 midi keyboards, and more, then you may use all of them.
We do use the entire console all the time for both recording and mixing. We attract a lot of bands who want to record together live. I’ve been in studios where no one uses the console but our studio is not one of them
Yea I’ve done a few sessions there where the 32 console preamps actually weren’t enough and we had to use additional outboard pres, because of the number of mics and line inputs needed for the band
Skipped this video because of that annoying and unnecessary background music. Do you play background music during your studio sessions or when teaching at Berkeley?
Major studios have a place for certain artists and projects. The big studios are amazing places to make music in, i hope they stay open. I’m also glad there’s many more studios at all price tiers for everyone to be able to work and create
@@gilldavidmour4199 I have been in many, stay mad bruh my business is doing well now that the gate keepers are leaving, I can careless what you think or say tbh because at the end of the day lil bruh you don't know what moves I'm making out here, I'm still getting clients in my home studio making bread daily. Go Touch Grass. 👊👊👊
@@lovesciencemusic I don't care what a major studio is doing, tbh honest like I told the last nobody below me, my business in my home studio is doing just fine. People stay coming to me I stay making bread while you stay mad. Like I told him. GO TOUCH GRASS.
@@gilldavidmour4199 You just talking about a bunch of nothing, just because you think and believe that's what happen and is happening doesn't mean it's true, my business is doing just fine the process is still going and my pockets still swollen from my clients, Go Touch Grass.🤣🤣🤣 and by the looks of your page you haven't ever been in a studio at all I would even bet you don't have any acoustics in ya studio whatsoever, probably got a laptop fat, living with mom and dad with no girl, probably struggling to get a sale off.
Usually it’s a working day, 8-12 hours. Some studios charge a lockout fee if you want consecutive days bc they can’t book overnight sessions. Other studios don’t do lockout fees, just the flat day rates
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
thank god, ive been making electronic music for 20 years, and i have no idea about this stuff, very interesting
Cheers 👍🏽
Sounds like mixers and engineers have to work super hard to make a living until they manage to get a percentage on a hit record... if they get lucky
They do work super hard. It’s always been a hard industry
Or they wake up and realize the industry is over and do it on your own making your own prices and operating how you wish.
On top of that, mixers will generally also have to do a bit of production, arrangement and editing if they work with less professional clients. This takes a lot of time and often goes unnoticed
@@nine27 your own way is the only way
@@lafarga2330 yea, whatever needs to be done to bring the record to the next level. The lines can be blurred between mix, production, arrangement.
Thank you, that was a very helpful video. That was a clear and sensible break down of the rates for different tasks. I wanted to check they were in-line with what I expected. And they were, and that's reassuring.
You’re welcome! Happy to share this info that’s prob hard to find
I charge $1700/hr for my studio in my untreated spare bedroom. I’ve got some of the best plugins! Business is great!!! 😁
That’s lit
lol. like a workout commercial they always say the best.
Thief
Thanks man, currently getting my diploma in audio engineering, and this is super helpful for knowing what i can expect, what is realistic and what not.
Nice - glad it’ll be useful
Great video! I had to figure these out myself when I started. It’s nice to have videos like this!
Thanks! Yep that’s why i wanted to share
I appreciate the way you chose to do this excellent video. You made a very persuasive case for those who work long term. From experience, I know that time is flexible but satisfaction is not. Our system of billing has been a far too well-kept secret. Covering the lower end of the spectrum was an excellent call as well, pointing out the enormous span of value involved in making a record.
This is never a fun question for me to answer. I imagine no one enjoys telling an aspiring artist they will be paying 15x the previous time. You’ve done a great job explaining it.
Thank you, that’s very well said. It’s worth talking about rates because at the end of the day, it’s a marketplace with tangible values and expectations and negotiations of price.
You givin us the SAUCE! Thanks Josh!!!
Yes sir! Cheers Averil
Easy to calculate. If you want 20€/h as a worker, that's around 40€/h for the employer, then studio space rent is around 2000€/month so that's around 70€/day, plus all the gear that needs to be bought and kept up is at least a hundred/day depending on how much equipment studio has, then on top of that electricity is around 10€/day and on top of that all the misc stuff at least another 10€/day
That comes up, for 8h day as around 520€/8 hour day AT THE MINIMUM! And that's not taking into account any PROFIT MARGINS so we can easily talk about 1000€/day for time of one tech + the studio space.
And that's heavily dependent on how big the studio is and where it's located etc...
And don't forget the PREP WORK! That takes time as well... so I'll say if someone's renting a studio for less than 1000€/8h day, they're very VERY small one man company without dedicated space that has rent and doesn't have much equipment.
and don't even alk about taxes!
So there. Now I'll see how close I got by watching the video....
this is a fantastic channel. thanks for this
Thank you!
Great topic, and well done! Thank you!
Cheers 🍻
Good info! Thanks.
Cheers
Nice, thank you
Cheers
great video. thanks for all the insights!
You’re welcome 👍🏽
Great Info! I'm a studio owner and would like to know if you can do a video on how to get new clients on a daily basis and what do you do for advertising besides word of mouth?
I second this. I think this should be the next video topic 👆
cool, can make a video on this - Alex Hormozi says there are only 4 ways to get new business: reach out to people you know, reach out to people you don't know, post on social media, run paid ads. So doing these things backed by a music centric strategy.
Incredible video. But what defines whether the studio is low, medium or high? Analog Gear? A location easy to park? Free coffee? Thank you!!!
This was answered in the video.
Yep I talk about that at 0:40 in the ‘what are you paying for?’ section
record book in noho has 200 for 12 hours shhhh 🤫
Very excellent video! Can you discuss the next phase, after getting paid? If I'm either an engineer, mastering engineer, or producer, what can I do to make myself official after getting paid? Would the revenue I receive remain "under the table"? Lol if you can make or guide me to a video of this process so i don't have to deal with the IRS and such that would be great! This is the one thing I can never land on to learn lol.
Good question - the best long term thing to do if you're going to be making a living from it is to set up a business LLC and pay some sort of taxes through it. Some of the gigs you'll do will pay cash so I'll leave that up to you how to handle it haha. But if music is your sole income, set up a proper business and do it right. It's also motivating to do this and it helps you think more clearly with a business mindset
@@lovesciencemusic YES!!! Lol I think I just need a video or some kind of source that walks me through the process step by step 😂😂. I would love to try and eventually do this full time. That’s the dream! Lol
@@chemdrum This is what Accountants are for.
:-)
Well, you don't need so much credits, awards etc. to have a higher rate as a mixer, producer; you just show clients your "out of this world" mixes and masters, and they'll pay you in a second if the sound of the mix, mastering work etc. is top notch. Or you show them your video on youtube that has 100M views and the problem with credits, awards is solved forever. That's the beauty of internet and modern technology - if you're good you'll shine through and nobody can stop you; not the location, nationality, who do you know in the buisiness, what awards did you get etc. 😄 p.s. Since 90% of the music business today is video and porn content that artist can deliver , all the above is not that important as it used to be when music was the most important thing of the whole package. If you listen to the top 40 songs in the last 10 years you ask yourself WTF happened with the top notch sound and arrangements (producing skills) of the 60', 70', 80' (especially 80's), 90', and early 2000's.
You’re right, the internet is the playing field and the quality of work speaks above all.
And true, the producers used to always be top notch musicians and arrangers. Now that’s not so, but there’s still many musical powerhouse producers who are multi instrumentalists and can create music in DAWs. But obviously music is not a ‘merit based’ industry like sports so people have cracked the code to success via other means aside from talent and musicianship
Hey, This is really helpful video for me. I'm a songwriter from South Korea who now I live in UK. I worked only for company and now I am freelancer. I have clients that who want mastering recording 100% but also song credits 50%. they pay good money for me. but I'm wonder what is mastering recording? because as a songwriter I only got paid songwriting credit and work fee(not much).
If they are paying for the whole song to be written and produced, it’s prob fair for them to keep the master recording rights. This is a copyright ownership of that recording, it can generate payments when the music gets streamed or licensed. The producer and vocal/lyric writers of the song are entitled to a different copyright called the Writer and Publishing shares. This copyright is for those who created the musical work
@@lovesciencemusic thank you so much!!! I feel very lucky to know this channel. I wish I can meet you one day. Have a great day!
Cheers!
Would a mixing engineer necessarily care about the music nearly as much as the artist, or would they need to understand the point the artist is trying to get across in their music ? And how do you know a mastering engineer isn't just running your stuff through some preset ? Would definitely need to have a working relationship for this sort of thing.
The good mixing engineers put their heart into, and take the records they work on to the next level... they are musicians too. Artists generally find a mixer who 'gets' their sound and they work together repeatedly. For mastering too, the good engineers are not phoning it in, it is their chosen craft and they are making the best musical choices they can
@@lovesciencemusic Words I want to hear !
I have not found this to be the case. Residuals do not make a producer more valuable. The art they can claim, on the other hand, is a very persuasive justification for making a solid living.
Yea, you’re only as badass as the quality of your work and the work you’ve got to your name
@@lovesciencemusic I don’t know a single engineer or producer aspiring to “badassery”. It’s music, not wrestling.
How many songs make money in digital streaming age?
The minority of songs. It takes 100’s of thousands or millions of streams to make livable income.
@@lovesciencemusicyep... better to sell direct to fans if possible. Cut out the middle man!
Interesting but why the meaningless backgrund drumachine loop? Making the informatiom more entertaining/true?
my drums are never meaningless
No mention of per song rates or per project rates for recording. Interesting.
That's because any studio that has tried that realizes that it's not a good business model.
Yep 👍🏽
Thanks for your perspective .Can you tell me what you would believe the average time in hours would be to properly mix an 18 track song with guitars bass drums keys and vocals?? Thanks
No prob - I'd say it depends a bit on the person mixing. But for me maybe half a day. Perhaps a full day if it was tricky or needed loads of processing
thanks@@lovesciencemusic
This varies but the initial mix with around 15 tracks is approx 4 hours.
What happens after depends a lot on the people involved. Some acts are just delighted to hear their music shine so 4-5 hours is plenty. Some, however, will grind and grind over the most pointless of things so at 20+ hours you just hope they get hit by a bus as the results will always sound brutally tortured and no one will win anything.
I quote 8-10 hours for the average mix ready-to-go. I also only work for people who have an open conversation before we commit to anything (like quotes etc). I have learned that anyone unwilling to discuss is almost guaranteed to be a pig as they touch-park their (often already troubled) song into oblivion. People who converse openly and share their passion tend to be the ones who are realistic about helping what they have shine.
:-)
@@BenedictRoffMarsh 😂 I charge a flat rate and then revision fees for more than 2 revisions. And yea, many people labor over details that don’t really matter in the macro. Better to finish songs swiftly and move on to the next
Those rates aren't bad at all. We were getting those numbers in the mid 1990's. So adjusted for inflation, it's even cheaper.
Yea there’s was a lot more money flowing in the industry back then. But there was also less access to music making tools and studios
Great great vid 👏🏼 any chance that’s applicable to Germany/EU ?! 🤔
Cheers! hmm I haven't worked in the EU, but I would guess yes - the numbers are probably similar
@@lovesciencemusic ok cool, thank you very much for the fast reply 😊👍🏼
@@GregoryJuers no prob
Does this dude have a grammy? I missed the part about the grammy.
$200 ua volt. $300 mac, $200 logic pro. Boom. There is your cost. Teach yourself.
LOL!
Artists should def know how to record themselves
I don't believe all those knobs and switches in a recording studio can possible be necessary or regularly used. I think they're just trying to make it look complicated so they can charge a lot.
It's just a couple knobs for different inputs/outputs, if you have 2 mics you won't use a lot. If you have 10 mics, 4 amps, 2 midi keyboards, and more, then you may use all of them.
We do use the entire console all the time for both recording and mixing. We attract a lot of bands who want to record together live. I’ve been in studios where no one uses the console but our studio is not one of them
Yea I’ve done a few sessions there where the 32 console preamps actually weren’t enough and we had to use additional outboard pres, because of the number of mics and line inputs needed for the band
@@lovesciencemusic I stand corrected then. I guess it is possible to have a bunch of mics all over the place.
Background music annoyance.
Comment annoyance
Skipped this video because of that annoying and unnecessary background music. Do you play background music during your studio sessions or when teaching at Berkeley?
Haters gunna hate
And this is why i'm so happy to see major studios close their doors keep it up we need all them to close down.
Major studios have a place for certain artists and projects. The big studios are amazing places to make music in, i hope they stay open. I’m also glad there’s many more studios at all price tiers for everyone to be able to work and create
Happy that big studios are going out of biz? I guess you never worked or recorded in one.
@@gilldavidmour4199 I have been in many, stay mad bruh my business is doing well now that the gate keepers are leaving, I can careless what you think or say tbh because at the end of the day lil bruh you don't know what moves I'm making out here, I'm still getting clients in my home studio making bread daily. Go Touch Grass. 👊👊👊
@@lovesciencemusic I don't care what a major studio is doing, tbh honest like I told the last nobody below me, my business in my home studio is doing just fine. People stay coming to me I stay making bread while you stay mad. Like I told him. GO TOUCH GRASS.
@@gilldavidmour4199 You just talking about a bunch of nothing, just because you think and believe that's what happen and is happening doesn't mean it's true, my business is doing just fine the process is still going and my pockets still swollen from my clients, Go Touch Grass.🤣🤣🤣 and by the looks of your page you haven't ever been in a studio at all I would even bet you don't have any acoustics in ya studio whatsoever, probably got a laptop fat, living with mom and dad with no girl, probably struggling to get a sale off.
Hi how many hours make's up a Day Rate , is a working day 8 hrs or a full 24 hrs?
Usually it’s a working day, 8-12 hours. Some studios charge a lockout fee if you want consecutive days bc they can’t book overnight sessions. Other studios don’t do lockout fees, just the flat day rates