I really appreciate how this man was able to cover a lot of material in a very short time. He is very skillful in his presentation and clearly very knowledgable as well. I hope he will return soon to speak more on the many different ideas that were mentioned here.
Very well done. I am appalled at the lack of knowledge among us concerning history, and increasingly so among the fundamental minds and millennials. Carry on!
When we are as afraid of adding to God's Word as we are of taking away our path will become a lot straighter. At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Matthew 11:25
I am in a strong Mennonite area of Canada, growing up almost everyone came from some kind of Mennonite back round. Even the only Penticostal Church in our area (the church we went too), was filled with mostly people with Mennonite heritage. Now there are few churches that have even kept Mennonite in their name, and its actually very sad. I have recently become very interested in the history of Anabaptist and realize how far we have drifted from our roots. BUT I also realize I am actually VERY Anabaptist on the inside, and as I study more and more my outside is starting to match LOL! Thank you so much for all the content you put out.
I'm personally quite frustrated with the older generation that is so focused on fundamentalism , but there is little talk on accountability. I'v come to the conclusion that many Christians will end up going going to hell because thay looked good in church and never understood what relationship with Jesus and what true discipleship looks like. Also I find it very interesting how some want submission until they need to submit and do not support change because it hurts. Lack of submission is one reason for church splits and most times it's both sides that are at fault. God help us all.
@@contraextirpation6406 I did grammatically mess up. I should have said "quote Christian". Really by what I mean is many people look good but the real life behind the scenes is what I'm talking about. They look Christan and are told they are Christain, pray every day, read the Bible, go to church, and so on, but they have no idea what true intimacy with Jesus is. The question needs to be asked are we doing what Jesus did when he was here?
After watching this, I find I am a historic Anabaptist. Excellent video. How can one find a group that teaches these things? I am Baptist in name and history, but the Holy Spirit has been teaching me these things over the years and I am nearly desperate to fellowship with likeminded believers. I haven't fit in anywhere and now I understand why.
God bless you Joanne. We encourage you to work hard at relationships within your current church and finding those there that are serious about their faith. But there also comes a time when looking around can be good. If you contact us through our website (anabaptistperspectives.org/contact) and let us know your location, we may be able to connect you with a church in your area.
Harold S Bender was mentioned as promoting the original ante-nicean and early anabaptist teachings. He published a booklet titled "The Anabaptist Vision". The text of the Anabaptist Vision is available online: www.goshen.edu/mhl/Refocusing/d-av.htm
I have a sincere question: last Sunday in our fellowship a brother gave a message on the wisdom of fellowship (brotherhood/sisterhood), defenselessness/nonresistance, Biblical guidance, quiet/peaceful understanding, importance of both belief and works, centrality of love - does this mean we are Anabaptist??
As a Christian in Australia I found this so interesting. I wish we had Anabaptists here. I am grateful I have a relationship with Christ. Can you recommend any books I should read? God bless
Unfortunately, Australia doesn’t have very many Anabaptists, but there are a few. Are you familiar with this group? www.netministries.org/ministries/CM08328 What type of books would you be interested in reading? Currently, I’m reading “The Secret of the Strength” by Peter Hoover, and am finding it to be a helpful introduction to several different issues that the early Anabaptists cared about.
@@AnabaptistPerspectives Greetings, I am not familiar with that group, I myself live in another state, Victoria. The closest Christian group to the Anabaptists here would be Baptists. We lack the variety of Christian traditions that you have in the US. I am interested in reading an overview of Anabaptist theology. Which books can you recommend? Thank you for getting back to me. God bless
Do you have any videos on reconciling Christianity with modern science? I've been having issues with Darwinism and how old the earth is compared to the Book of Genesis. I'd love to hear the Anabaptist perspective.
We recorded two episodes with John Mark Kuhns. They might be helpful for your question. Part 1: th-cam.com/video/02nCEK9ClWQ/w-d-xo.html Part 2: th-cam.com/video/pWyqwDkvGfY/w-d-xo.html
It was a affirming of the basic fundamentals of the Christian faith in the face of liberal movements of the late 19th century early 20th century (which has brought us to our current atheist attitudes) The most important conclusion of the fundamentals of the faith being salvation by grace. Which seems to be point of contention MR Weaver.
Basically, I think what he is saying is: The fear of the dissolution of structure / liberalism / the flood, was combated by the focus on structure / tower of Babel / fundamentalism when the focus should have been placed on the way / the mediator between the two. The identification with structure leads to a continual disagreement over the meaning of things and a feeling of threat from those who are different and so this calls for purification by disassociation and division. The disagreement over the meaning of things is the curse of Babel, it's the confusion of language which causes dispersion. The solution is to identify with "the way" or in other words "the mediator" between the extreme. The mediator is also the "logos" or "word" which brings meaning and the narrow path between extremes. It is "word" that created and sustains the world.
Rule-making predates the Anabaptists by over 1300 years. The church has been making rules since the Jerusalem council, in the apostles' time. Rules that were upheld by Jesus in His messages to the seven churches in the book of Revelation.
True. One of the foundational principles in those rules, though, is that they were the minimum necessary to address an issue (Acts 15:28) and not contrary to wider principles of the Faith. In the post-Nicene world there is a strong tendency to "pick and choose" rules and theology to suit one's preferences, society, and age in the world. Medieval Christianity tended to be astoundingly medieval in its understandings and practice. Christianity in Germany and Austria during the rise of Hitler tended to be... well, enough said. Even in this video, fundamentalism is only rejected with respect to its less popular or unnecessary aspects presently. In its aspects that have long been traditional with conservative Mennonites as well as conservative Protestants, like teetotaling, those are still advocated for--are still seen as beneficial to hold onto. This is how we get to wedding rings being jewelry rather than substantively functional (covenant being of little account?) while a watch, even a very nice one, is okay because it has a function. To use the first example, the fact that teetotaling is historically a Muslim position, not Christian teaching (outside of novel departures like the fundamentalist movement and Prohibition in the US), isn't what is ultimately informing the ideals, though this video is a good start in correcting that. Essentially, fundamentalism has a way of skirting even more fundamental realities. In the case of alcohol, what both Jewish and Christian teaching did from the beginning was warn strongly not only against drunkenness as a sin but against any form of excess, lingering over the cup, devotion to exquisite sources, etc. Even under the influence of fundamentalism, the Christian response was originally referred to as a _temperance_ movement, since that was known to be scriptural, not an unscriptural prohibition movement as it later became. It seems very important to draw the line where the Church and the Scriptures originally drew the line, and disciple and discipline to that, however popular or unpopular that line is among any group of Christians at a given place and time. I grew up in a prohibitionist church that had fantastic arguments against Jesus Himself on the subject--hardly an approach of honor and faithfulness.
hypocrisy of the Mennonite churches, Is obviously why they swayed to and fro. Your sleeves can only be so long, so many people Church hop find perfect one.
I agree with lots of what he said. I hesitated slightly when he was a bit dismissive about Higher Criticism. I don't think it's necessarily bad. But when he said creationism was a thing to abide by, I'm like, oh no, this may put me out. Hard to hold a position against science, unless he has a nuanced version of creationism. Would be interested in his understanding/dialogue on that.
Thanks for the feedback. I also wish for more nuance on Chester's perspective on the relationship of Young Earth Creationism and fundamentalism. I forget the extent to which Young Earth Creationism comes up (perhaps not adequately), but you may be interested a follow-up conversation we had with Chester about Fundamentalism: Part A: th-cam.com/video/4XMWCBVpg60/w-d-xo.html Part B: th-cam.com/video/VDcIqmZCV1s/w-d-xo.html
"This idea of having rules now to deal with our issues, is opposite, is not a part of the anabaptist story." If this is true, how did the early anabaptists do church discipline and maintain a pure faith? They obviously had a strong emphasis on purity in the church. How could they maintain a church without a standard of conduct, whether written or not?
Thanks for engaging with this episode and for the comment, Marcus. I’m not personally able to answer your question. I will, however, record it, and we might be able to respond in a future episode. Otherwise, if you contact me through info@anabaptistperspectives.org, I can put you into contact with Chester, so you can ask him.
Actually most of Marx’s “Disciples” were Christian Socialists. It’s only in Russia and then from Stalin do we begin to see atheism get entrenched in Communism. Anabaptism shares a lot of common ground with early Marxism.
Only for those who have never studied Marx. There is a vast gulf between them, not only with respect to politics as the agent of good and change, but over voluntarism and violence.
8:15 "instead of looking to history, they looked to protestantism". Believers should never look either direction (Protestantism or history.). BUT TO SCRIPTURE as the ONLY AUTHORITY to solve any and EVERY problem.
Chester Weaver, a very careful teacher, who consistently quotes authoritative sources throughout is dissertations, oddly changes tactics from careful instructor to baseless accusor at 8min 54 sec to 9min 1 sec While describing fundamentalist in the most negative and stereo typical terms he never offers any kind of authoritative sources to support his claims about fundamentalist attitudes. Along with his seamless bate and switch at 8:15 there is only one conclusion I can arrive at. Impressive propagandist skills indeed.
You need to more study on fundamentalism Unfair attacks on fundamentalism such as fundamentalism teaches being critical of others is okay, teaches fear and your attack on premillennialism. Early church were premellennial
Some dictionaries like _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_ regard intolerance of others as so central to the character and history of fundamentalism that it is part of their definition for the term.
I really appreciate how this man was able to cover a lot of material in a very short time. He is very skillful in his presentation and clearly very knowledgable as well. I hope he will return soon to speak more on the many different ideas that were mentioned here.
We also appreciate Chester’s clarity and knowledge. He’s scheduled to return for an episode in May.
Very well done. I am appalled at the lack of knowledge among us concerning history, and increasingly so among the fundamental minds and millennials. Carry on!
Thanks, Loren!
That was just great! I enjoy all of your videos but this was by far my favorite. I can't wait for part two.
Yes. We also appreciated Chester’s message and are thankful that he could speak with us about this issue.
Powerful message!
Thanks, Micah.
When we are as afraid of adding to God's Word as we are of taking away our path will become a lot straighter. At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Matthew 11:25
I am in a strong Mennonite area of Canada, growing up almost everyone came from some kind of Mennonite back round. Even the only Penticostal Church in our area (the church we went too), was filled with mostly people with Mennonite heritage. Now there are few churches that have even kept Mennonite in their name, and its actually very sad. I have recently become very interested in the history of Anabaptist and realize how far we have drifted from our roots. BUT I also realize I am actually VERY Anabaptist on the inside, and as I study more and more my outside is starting to match LOL! Thank you so much for all the content you put out.
Cari, thank you for sharing your experience of life in a Mennonite community and rediscovering your Anabaptist inclinations. Keep Jesus central.
I'm personally quite frustrated with the older generation that is so focused on fundamentalism , but there is little talk on accountability. I'v come to the conclusion that many Christians will end up going going to hell because thay looked good in church and never understood what relationship with Jesus and what true discipleship looks like. Also I find it very interesting how some want submission until they need to submit and do not support change because it hurts. Lack of submission is one reason for church splits and most times it's both sides that are at fault. God help us all.
Yes. We need God’s help, and we need submission. Let’s pray that we submit ourselves to God and properly love each other.
@@contraextirpation6406 I did grammatically mess up. I should have said "quote Christian". Really by what I mean is many people look good but the real life behind the scenes is what I'm talking about. They look Christan and are told they are Christain, pray every day, read the Bible, go to church, and so on, but they have no idea what true intimacy with Jesus is. The question needs to be asked are we doing what Jesus did when he was here?
A very profound and true statement at 7:00 to 7:15
After watching this, I find I am a historic Anabaptist. Excellent video. How can one find a group that teaches these things? I am Baptist in name and history, but the Holy Spirit has been teaching me these things over the years and I am nearly desperate to fellowship with likeminded believers. I haven't fit in anywhere and now I understand why.
God bless you Joanne. We encourage you to work hard at relationships within your current church and finding those there that are serious about their faith. But there also comes a time when looking around can be good. If you contact us through our website (anabaptistperspectives.org/contact) and let us know your location, we may be able to connect you with a church in your area.
Harold S Bender was mentioned as promoting the original ante-nicean and early anabaptist teachings. He published a booklet titled "The Anabaptist Vision". The text of the Anabaptist Vision is available online: www.goshen.edu/mhl/Refocusing/d-av.htm
I have a sincere question: last Sunday in our fellowship a brother gave a message on the wisdom of fellowship (brotherhood/sisterhood), defenselessness/nonresistance, Biblical guidance, quiet/peaceful understanding, importance of both belief and works, centrality of love - does this mean we are Anabaptist??
Possibly! What view is taken of Baptism, and how is it carried out?
Very, very interesting!!
We think so too.
As a Christian in Australia I found this so interesting. I wish we had Anabaptists here. I am grateful I have a relationship with Christ. Can you recommend any books I should read? God bless
Unfortunately, Australia doesn’t have very many Anabaptists, but there are a few. Are you familiar with this group? www.netministries.org/ministries/CM08328
What type of books would you be interested in reading? Currently, I’m reading “The Secret of the Strength” by Peter Hoover, and am finding it to be a helpful introduction to several different issues that the early Anabaptists cared about.
@@AnabaptistPerspectives Greetings, I am not familiar with that group, I myself live in another state, Victoria. The closest Christian group to the Anabaptists here would be Baptists. We lack the variety of Christian traditions that you have in the US. I am interested in reading an overview of Anabaptist theology. Which books can you recommend? Thank you for getting back to me.
God bless
Do you have any videos on reconciling Christianity with modern science? I've been having issues with Darwinism and how old the earth is compared to the Book of Genesis. I'd love to hear the Anabaptist perspective.
We recorded two episodes with John Mark Kuhns. They might be helpful for your question.
Part 1: th-cam.com/video/02nCEK9ClWQ/w-d-xo.html
Part 2: th-cam.com/video/pWyqwDkvGfY/w-d-xo.html
@@AnabaptistPerspectives thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Wow! I agree, although I don't have such a good handle on fundamentalism, basic discipleship is being lost as The intimate DNA of Christianity
Help...I'm still confused as to what fundamentalism is?
It was a affirming of the basic fundamentals of the Christian faith in the face of liberal movements of the late 19th century early 20th century (which has brought us to our current atheist attitudes) The most important conclusion of the fundamentals of the faith being salvation by grace. Which seems to be point of contention MR Weaver.
Basically, I think what he is saying is: The fear of the dissolution of structure / liberalism / the flood, was combated by the focus on structure / tower of Babel / fundamentalism when the focus should have been placed on the way / the mediator between the two. The identification with structure leads to a continual disagreement over the meaning of things and a feeling of threat from those who are different and so this calls for purification by disassociation and division. The disagreement over the meaning of things is the curse of Babel, it's the confusion of language which causes dispersion. The solution is to identify with "the way" or in other words "the mediator" between the extreme. The mediator is also the "logos" or "word" which brings meaning and the narrow path between extremes. It is "word" that created and sustains the world.
I love this! I have so many questions! But what are some good resources to learn more about mennonite history?
Hi Lena. I recommend Glimpses of Mennonite History and Doctrine by John C. Wenger and The Secret of the Strength by Peter Hoover.
Rule-making predates the Anabaptists by over 1300 years. The church has been making rules since the Jerusalem council, in the apostles' time. Rules that were upheld by Jesus in His messages to the seven churches in the book of Revelation.
This is an interesting observation.
True. One of the foundational principles in those rules, though, is that they were the minimum necessary to address an issue (Acts 15:28) and not contrary to wider principles of the Faith. In the post-Nicene world there is a strong tendency to "pick and choose" rules and theology to suit one's preferences, society, and age in the world. Medieval Christianity tended to be astoundingly medieval in its understandings and practice. Christianity in Germany and Austria during the rise of Hitler tended to be... well, enough said. Even in this video, fundamentalism is only rejected with respect to its less popular or unnecessary aspects presently. In its aspects that have long been traditional with conservative Mennonites as well as conservative Protestants, like teetotaling, those are still advocated for--are still seen as beneficial to hold onto. This is how we get to wedding rings being jewelry rather than substantively functional (covenant being of little account?) while a watch, even a very nice one, is okay because it has a function.
To use the first example, the fact that teetotaling is historically a Muslim position, not Christian teaching (outside of novel departures like the fundamentalist movement and Prohibition in the US), isn't what is ultimately informing the ideals, though this video is a good start in correcting that. Essentially, fundamentalism has a way of skirting even more fundamental realities. In the case of alcohol, what both Jewish and Christian teaching did from the beginning was warn strongly not only against drunkenness as a sin but against any form of excess, lingering over the cup, devotion to exquisite sources, etc. Even under the influence of fundamentalism, the Christian response was originally referred to as a _temperance_ movement, since that was known to be scriptural, not an unscriptural prohibition movement as it later became. It seems very important to draw the line where the Church and the Scriptures originally drew the line, and disciple and discipline to that, however popular or unpopular that line is among any group of Christians at a given place and time. I grew up in a prohibitionist church that had fantastic arguments against Jesus Himself on the subject--hardly an approach of honor and faithfulness.
You do know. your beards are one of your rules right.
hypocrisy of the Mennonite churches, Is obviously why they swayed to and fro. Your sleeves can only be so long, so many people Church hop find perfect one.
What I hope you're trying to say that we need to be Christian first
I agree with lots of what he said. I hesitated slightly when he was a bit dismissive about Higher Criticism. I don't think it's necessarily bad. But when he said creationism was a thing to abide by, I'm like, oh no, this may put me out. Hard to hold a position against science, unless he has a nuanced version of creationism. Would be interested in his understanding/dialogue on that.
Thanks for the feedback. I also wish for more nuance on Chester's perspective on the relationship of Young Earth Creationism and fundamentalism.
I forget the extent to which Young Earth Creationism comes up (perhaps not adequately), but you may be interested a follow-up conversation we had with Chester about Fundamentalism:
Part A: th-cam.com/video/4XMWCBVpg60/w-d-xo.html
Part B: th-cam.com/video/VDcIqmZCV1s/w-d-xo.html
"This idea of having rules now to deal with our issues, is opposite, is not a part of the anabaptist story." If this is true, how did the early anabaptists do church discipline and maintain a pure faith? They obviously had a strong emphasis on purity in the church. How could they maintain a church without a standard of conduct, whether written or not?
Thanks for engaging with this episode and for the comment, Marcus. I’m not personally able to answer your question. I will, however, record it, and we might be able to respond in a future episode. Otherwise, if you contact me through info@anabaptistperspectives.org, I can put you into contact with Chester, so you can ask him.
Actually most of Marx’s “Disciples” were Christian Socialists. It’s only in Russia and then from Stalin do we begin to see atheism get entrenched in Communism. Anabaptism shares a lot of common ground with early Marxism.
Only for those who have never studied Marx. There is a vast gulf between them, not only with respect to politics as the agent of good and change, but over voluntarism and violence.
8:15 "instead of looking to history, they looked to protestantism". Believers should never look either direction (Protestantism or history.). BUT TO SCRIPTURE as the ONLY AUTHORITY to solve any and EVERY problem.
Cult
Chester Weaver, a very careful teacher, who consistently quotes authoritative sources throughout is dissertations, oddly changes tactics from careful instructor to baseless accusor at 8min 54 sec to 9min 1 sec
While describing fundamentalist in the most negative and stereo typical terms he never offers any kind of authoritative sources to support his claims about fundamentalist attitudes. Along with his seamless bate and switch at 8:15 there is only one conclusion I can arrive at.
Impressive propagandist skills indeed.
You need to more study on fundamentalism Unfair attacks on fundamentalism such as fundamentalism teaches being critical of others is okay, teaches fear and your attack on premillennialism. Early church were premellennial
Thank you for the feedback, Kent. We at Anabaptist Perspectives are considering ways that we could revisit this topic with greater nuance.
Some dictionaries like _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_ regard intolerance of others as so central to the character and history of fundamentalism that it is part of their definition for the term.