Northern Irish Unionists visit Maynooth, Co. Kildare, Ireland 1973
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มี.ค. 2021
- Part 1 - • Northern Irish Unionis...
First screened on 12 July 1973 ‘Down There’ examines the reactions of twelve visitors from Northern Ireland to life in the Republic.
Filmed in May 1973 six Protestant couples from Belfast spend five days visiting the south. For some of them, it was their first time south of the border and this was an opportunity to meet ordinary people in the Republic and discuss how their preconceptions of people in the south differ to the reality.
This excerpt from the programme shows the couples arriving at St. Patrick’s College, Maynooth, the home of Catholic teaching in the Republic, where they discuss their opinions of Catholicism and Protestantism.
The six couples featured are: Bill and Betty Brown; Jim and Anne Smith; Fred and Molly Otley; Alfie and Elsie Large; Alec and Ella Hill; and Sam and Ann Egerton.
‘Down There’ was a television documentary, presented by Tom McGurk, studying the reactions of 12 Protestants from Northern Ireland to life in the Republic of Ireland. - บันเทิง
Northern Irish Unionists visit The Republic of Ireland, 1973
Part 1 - th-cam.com/video/vWpDtOXhDn4/w-d-xo.html
Its quite interesting to see how the Republic has moved on and unionist politicians still seem to be stuck in the past.
And yesterday Boris Johnson was celebrating bringing back imperial measures - pounds and ounces, half-crowns and furlongs.
@annagilda I agree
Nothing wrong with having values. And sticking by them
@@123321wertyu yes, absutely. I agree with you, but not if those values are bigoted, discriminatory and sectarian. (I'm not saying they all are, but there are some still floating around.)
@@123321wertyu if those values are bigotry and division , well then they have and will never work
As a Monaghan(Republic Of Ireland) and Ulsterman, the use of Ulster by Unionists as a term encompassing Northern Ireland has always slightly erked me. You hear it here and I've heard it from contemperary Unionists too. There are 9 counties in Ulster, the Province of the island of Ireland and only two thirds of which is part of Northern Ireland. Small hill and all but sure.....
I feel the same way, but playing devils advocate I think the same could be said about the use of the term Ireland only being used only to refer to the Republic. Although most of those in the Republic didn't try to distance themselves from the North in the same way that many Unionists distanced themselves from the Republic.
@@samnicholson5051 Yeah that's probably fair.
@@samnicholson5051 Jesus, how dare the Irish call their country Ireland or themselves Irish.
@@bluechip297 That wasn't really my point.
@@samnicholson5051, North and South still is the island of Ireland, as you people would, President of the Republic, its actually the President of Ireland!
At 2:52 - here we have two priests from the Diocese of Derry, both men have died within the last year of 2021-2022. Father Aidan Mullan on the left of the screen and Father Patrick O'Kane on the right I believe.
3 Young Irish priests not a sight that you would see today.
As doomsday gets close there will be an upsurge in religious vocations, though probably to a new Church
And I dont think they would still be priests today, given their apostasy in the interview.
Very interesting to watch, however it's very telling how they cannot separate the concept of "Southern" Irish from Catholicism. They also seem to only ask questions which they pretty much know the answers to - a priest's views on contraception are already known, and they could have got that answer without leaving Belfast. Asking that question is just getting a pretext for expressing your own views on the matter. None of the men seemed to be there to find out what "Southern" Irish people were like, only to tell them what they thought of them. The women seemed more open minded.
I don't know if there was more to this documentary but it would have been interesting to see what their interactions would have been if they were brought to speak to ordinary people, in Dublin for example, rather than the seminary in Maynooth which they could hardly have seen as neutral ground.
Also the fact that they kept interrupting the answers to their questions was wrecking my head LOL.
The women weren't more open minded, just afraid of embarrassing their husbands on their big day out on TV I'd say. This was 1973 after all. Did you hear a woman ask a question? Worth noting the general peasant like demeanour of almost everyone in the video, but the Nordies of that flavour seem to have gone even more backward if anything.
@@apjpisared I rather meant on the bus on their way to the south that the women seemed more open minded during thos interviews but yes, the men did all the talking in Maynooth, which is telling.
Yes , they definitely see Ireland only in terms of the Catholic Church and its influence . I know very proud irishmen here in England who are protestants - that includes some of my ancestors.
As you say , if they just got to sit down with ordinary folk in the Republic they'd realise that they aren't very different after all .
Get them drunk at the Cobblestones and they'd end up speaking with Irish people on real terms.
@@andynixon2820 very true. Christianity encompasses many of the same values, no matter which branch.
This is SO interesting. Would love to see more. Pat on the back to the Unionists that took the trip down South to ask questions and actually find out what's what. I'm sure it took a lot of guts for them to come down South at that point in time. The thing is, if a Catholic from down South had gone up North at that time poking around and asking questions I don't think they would have been nearly so pleasantly received and allowed to debate ideas back and forward like we see in this short clip.
Fred Otley was a U.V.F bomber who got what was coming to him. The I.N.L.A went in and whacked him.
Yes
In 1979 I arranged a business visit to a company in Antrim. Just as I was leaving work the evening before, I got a phone call from the company MD. He suggested sending a car to pick me up in Dundalk so I wouldn't have the worry of driving a southern registered car in the North.
At the end of the day the car wasn't around to take me back so he took me for a drink while we waited for it to get back. I met and chatted with a number of people, all of whom were Unionists. They were as nice people as I have met even though the conversation was very much about the troubles and our differences.
In 1996 i played for St Kevin's youths U13 from whitehall dublin we wore orange jersey's we were going to a football camp in donegal and because we had to go through two border checkpoints to get there they changed our jerseys to grey for the trip. Didn't fully comprehend it at the time but now i understand the fear was we would be attacked by nationalists. Strange days.
@@newspaperface should have said you were the dutch team on a friendly
All very interesting. I'm a Northern Irish Protestant, born in 1973....It's fascinating to see these uploads and how views have (or haven't) changed....
In 1968 I met the nicest person in the world a lady from a loyalist working class area of Belfast...I was from a rural area of the west of Ireland. We went out together for over 6 months , until she invited me to her home one night. Her last words to me were "Michael ..I've got to be cruel to kind".....How right she was, a few months later Belfast was on fire...Ever since that time I have believed in no religion...In fact I'm not even sure there's a God...And yes the Catholic Church ruled the roost in the south way back then...you could say "brainwashed" but we didn't realize it at the time. Having said that what was happening up north was just as bad if not worse...Rigged voting system and discrimination against one side of the community. I'm convinced that this would never have happened if we had our own parliament for the whole of the island. Imagine the input the Protestant people would have made towards the building of this state.. We were very young and innocent..most probably wouldn't have lasted ...and all that mattered at the time was love & romance...
@@sentimentaloldme basically you’re really saying religion messed the whole country up…and I agree with you.
@@Diaspora1759 it was the British government who messed it all up.
@@ULYSSES-31 They are complicit but the British Government did not run the Magdalen Laundries
@@Diaspora1759 No, but long before Independence the Brits ran 'Foundling Hospitals' (baby farming institutions) in Dublin and Cork. For over a century thousands of kids were taken in to be raised in the Protestant faith - the vast majority died or were exported abroad. The Catholic Church merely took up the enterprise after Independence.
I've been to the university at Maynooth once for a conference, and I remember that exact tunnel! I stayed in those same dorms right across from it. Great slice of life and window in to the changing society of Ireland almost 50 years ago. It seems like Irish accents were thicker at the time.
Important little snapshot of history. Thanks for uploading
As soon as they can feel their recieved opinions start to fall they rush in with tired tropes as "gotcha" type questions.
They are not really there to learn, but to defend their prejudices.
Exactly!
Totally agree. This is the exact vibe I got from watching it. They were there to say, "We're right, you're wrong, and we're going to prove it." I loved how patient and open and friendly the Catholics were (and I'm protestant, though not from Ireland).
Because they are trapped in the 17th century.
@@the_real_littlepinkhousefly Ulster Protestants have ways been jealous of Irish Roman Catholics because thier province fell apart after World War II.
They were very rude, the Catholics by contrast were incredibly polite
of course the guy casually wearing a top hat studies history 2:32. Classy...
Jaysus grown up in Maynooth my whole life the college looks beautiful there much more greener and way less parking
I was there from 1992 to 2004, the changes on campus during that time were astounding and it's changed hugely since then too!
They ask a question and interrupt almost immediately.....
Good old Maynooth.. Certainly had its own gothic charms..and interesting thing to do..
Where do you find these? Really amazing vintage footage.
Interesting how two communities can stand and have a civilised chat with each other without the Toxic Press and Media Stirring.
Wow. This is interesting but stressful too. I know it's as a consequence of where I was born but I'm very glad this didn't factor into my life. I've lived with people in the past who would grew up in NI and I could really see the impact it had. All I saw was the news, living through it all is something I could barely imagine.
29… loyalism fairly ages you. Being aggrieved all the time taking effect.
Go to east Belfast today many 30 odd year old angry loyalist woman look in their 50s. Permanent hate lines on the face. Just saying what I see.
Yeah, my son is nearly 29 and looks much younger than the guy in the documentary, who was either lying or had aged, like you said, from hatred and hardness.
@@the_real_littlepinkhousefly Hatred, hardness and poisonous religious fascism bred into him no doubt ...but I'll also wager that a poor diet, twenty fags a day and dozens of cans of Kestrel Super every week added ten of the twenty extra years on that face and body.
@@AWhileHanlin never walked up the falls then ?
@@the_real_littlepinkhousefly hatred and hardness comes from burying thousands of innocent people as a result of republican genocide.
Crazy it hasn’t changed much at all. The garden down the square even looks exact same
Seeing this has acted as a warning to me as we move into these very divisive post-Brexit days. We never want to see army checkpoints on the island of Ireland again.
There will never be a wall in the island of Ireland. The Irish government won't build it, the Northern Irish government won't build it, the British government won't build it and the EU won't build it. It's just threat dangled over all sides to make them suspicious of the other.
I'm only catholic when there's protestants around.
This got me! hahaha
Ha , this made me laugh
So you are not Catholic. What's your point?
@@williamgoldsmith3796 Its a joke, jaysus christ
Fantastic upload. Beats all the usual NI stuff.
It cut off just when it was getting interesting: 'Too many things are accepted and not questioned on both sides'.
Please can you.post the rest of this documentary..pretty please
I studied in Maynooth myself, the student in the hat looks very like my Northern Irish Society lecturer who is also now a senior professor at the department of sociology. The student even said he was studying sociology. I do wonder if it's him, he is from Northern Ireland and I'd say that's about the age he would have been back then!
What's your point?
Colin coulter?
the fella with the hat is no way from the northern half of Ireland, listen to his accent. Culchie midlands
From Maynooth myself. The college still looks the same only difference is u rarely see priests or nuns these days.
Fascinating footage of my old alma mater.
Aggressive, confrontational, hostile and belligerent - the default settings of Unionists laid bare in this wonderful little video. They talk about loyalty to the crown but it's a conditional loyalty, dependent on the British government giving them annual handouts.
True- the protestants were extremely rude and obnoxious. Also their supposed loyalty to the crown is conditional upon the importation of a German protestant illegitimate monarchy that can dance to the tune of parliament. The Catholics were loyal to the legitimate King James II and paid a tremendous price for it
The nun spoke sense. The Protestants are being a little rude here I think.
No they are not rude. They are just asking questions.
@@Mr-pn2eh They were being rude: they refused to even let her finish her answer. They interrupted her several times with questions that were accusatory in nature. These were not people intent on learning or listening, they wanted to 'prove their point'.
@@melchristensen8282 at least they don't practice that disgusting thing called mass
@@Mr-pn2eh you certainly made the protestants point not showing your a bigot...
@@dropit7694 tolerance is not in their mindset or lexicon
Fascinating stuff
The ulster people weren't wanting to listen.
The Ulster people have quite an aggressive tone in their questioning..doesn't seem much as changed in 50 years which is sad..
If you find their tone aggressive it's because you're not used to the ulster accent and mannerism. Many a softy southerner would be intimidated by an ulster granny inviting them in for a cup of tea. It's something the southerners have in common with the English: their reaction to ulster mannerisms.
@@soupbread7039 Maybe in 1973 like in the video that comment would make a bit more sense. Most Irish people have been to the North dozens of times in one way or another by now. It'd actually be more factual for you to call it Northern Ireland rather than Ulster. Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan accents are Ulster accents too. Sounds like the comment of a souper alright.
@@apjpisared fair enough but I didn't detect too much aggression in their tone, as mentioned in the comment that I replied to. You're right that there's no such thing as a single 'Ulster accent'. Maybe I should've 'an' Ulster accent rather than 'the' Ulster accent. Would've been yknow, more factual.
The priests here are Ulster men
@@soupbread7039 but they're not inviting them for tea their asking them pretty controversial and divisive questions and responding to their answers in a debate fashion almost. The tone of how they speak only amplifies the aggravating nature of the questions
"I'm only a shipyard worker" spoken by someone taking full advantage of their religion and orange order membership.....ffs
10,000 shipyard workers in Harland and Wolfe, 400 of that number were of the Catholic faith.
And now the very same shipyard workers are part of trade union in Dublin where their rep is also based. That did not bother them a few years ago when their jobs were on the line
For all their worried about Rome rule now they have a UK prime minister who is Roman Catholic while they are now giving out that the president of Ireland for not attending the a religious ceremony in northern Ireland and probably be complaining of he did attend and taking attention away from the UK monarch
Thankfully the vast majority of protestants/people from a unionist background have moved away from this bunker mentality
It must be quite a shock to find normal human beings on the other side of the border, it is dangerous to have a closed mind, to think that only you should have total rights over everything, that you own the world, that God will only look after your needs and to hell with everyone else. It is very good to have an open mind, treat all others well and you will in return get treated very well. No wars, no conflict, free to travel and roam across all the land. This comes from someone who was tricked his way to become one of the very youngest to join the Irish army. I left because I refused to point a gun at anyone
Do Good Always... pretty simple stuff and should be the 1st thing in everybody's head.
My grandpa n siblings left in 1917. I see they didn't change much at all. Why is it the most obnoxious people always play the victim? Imperialists make me sick.
Good to see seminarians referring to conscience so soon after a certain Roman Catholic archbishop had departed his mortal coil
The visitors do not seem to be overly interested in answers to questions which some of them are using to make a point and then counter answer replies unnecessarily. No surprise that the majority of the island remained very peaceful. The Roman Catholic church spoke and still does through one archbishop in Dublin to Roman Catholics in the independent part of Ireland and not other denominations . Then and now Dublin has only one cathedral a church of Ireland (protestant) one. In Belfast the Roman Catholic archbishop was and is the primate of all Ireland but the church of Ireland archbishop was and is primate of members of the COI.. other Christian denimatioms and all Jewish congregations had then and their management structures as do newly arrived religions
It seems to me that these visitors of they really wanted answers could have asked these questions from protestant clerics in Belfast and could have used their visit to find out about Roman Catholicism. 😀💛
Dublin has two COI cathedrals. Christchurch and St. Patricks.
@@samnicholson5051 thank you😊
Maynooth was set up by the British in the late 18th century. The irony is that the Catholic Church was allowed to develop in Ireland throughout the 19th century to become an agent of British rule. They never opposed British rule & during a crisis always came down on the side of established authority. They were no different from the Protestant churches.
Church of Ireland Protestant Ascendancy stirred up sectarian hate the rich land gentry and aristocracy.
It would be another 25 years before the Good Friday Agreement would be signed... and in the coming years the Troubles would get worse....
Part 3 ????
I was a teenager in 1973 and didn’t give a dam about the church nor did I give a dam about the queen
Is the remainder of this vide available i think its interesting
Very high quality footage considering it is almost 50 years old..
Wow didn't know Benedict Cumberbatch was an Irish priest back in the 70's
Looks nothing like Benedict
You were a good priest on craggy island yourself Dermot
The tall guy with the beard is Michael Clery. He became a well known media figure.
Shag his housekeeper and had a son. Role models in Ireland
And fathered a child with his housekeeper. If only he'd got a few johnnies from those visiting Unionists.
Ah the jockey boy as Christy Moore sang
@@Gonkawonga your thinking of bishop Brennan
I wonder what the unionists would think of the Republic of Ireland now... One of the most liberal states in Europe.
After watching this Video and listening to these People, one would think of what the 1700s were like back then.
Wow!
Not too good for us Irish
Part 3?
Fascinating
Is there a Part 3?
It ended up in a punch up
@@shredder9536 😂
Where can I find the whole movie?
Not a big fan of the church but these lads did a great job, seems like northern extreme protestants will use any uneducated rhetoric, the perfect response to their question on the pope would have been well what are you doing listening to the pope
🤣🤣🤣 And their head of state is head of the church of England🤣🤣🤣 And their protestant only prime minister appoints protestant only bishops to the British parliament's house of lords.😛🤣🤣🤣😅
@@williamgoldsmith3796 The thing I find laughable and bizarrely interesting about these self-proclaimed 'Presbyterians' is that their precious English/German/Russian royal family are Anglicans - and as we know Anglicans and their Episcopalian relatives (and their places of worship) can be broadly described as Catholic-Lite and thus, their method of worshipping the supernatural is a million miles away from the 'religious' experiences of these 'Presbyterians'.
@@Optimus18 Saxe coberth Gotha before WW1 I believe
29 is all that fella is?! Wha?! Mother of Jaysus..
Yep. He is Fred Otley shot dead by the INLA or IPLO aged 44 in August 1988 at the corner of Agnes Street and Shankill Road.
Is that " Fat Bastard " from Austin powers..think he was in the first part told us all he was 29
29, my Ar.........e
He is Fred Otley shot dead by the INLA or IPLO aged 44 in August 1988 at the corner of Agnes Street and Shankill Road.@@garrycurrid3297
7.17 if ever I saw a knee capping pull of a cigarette that was it
My Aunty Norah at 4:49. A great lady.
Fascinating social history
It would be following up with the people from the North appearing in this video to contrast and compare 49 years later.....
7:35 he’s right. Too many people complain about the other sides “teachings”. What teachings? I guarantee you can’t tell me one teaching
Would love to have seen another couple of minutes more because the northern priest with the glasses.......takes a punk-style puff of his cigarette and the way his body language is shaping up suggests he's rolling the sleeves up for a bit of argy bargy.
Haha
Looks to me like he has no fight in him, just snark. That shipyard worker would have made light work of him im sure 😆
@@Chris_Tinacan As for the 'shipyard worker', from experience (some of my family were in that industry) many of them are like angry stray dogs: very loud but have no teeth.
@@Optimus18 a toothless tiger?
@@Chris_Tinacan Don't think so. That big fat dosser is 29 but looks like he is 70 years old
Setup: outside in the cold. No chairs. No food. No comfort. 2 sides, facing off.
This is a setup.
Why not have it inside, hot tea, good food, warmth and comfort? Someone charming and funny doing introductions, speaking for both sides, highlighting the similarities and mutual priorities.
This is so setup.
It's outside precisely because it's not set up. They just started asking questions to whoever was walking past. In your eyes, literally setting up the conversation over a table with tea and biscuits and formalities like introductions would be less of a setup? 😆
The Unionists asked about a mixed education from the church. What would be better is that the Unionists get a Catholic education instead.
Who will be first to leave the UK Scotland or N Ireland?
I must say, Morrissey looks pretty fetching in a top hat.
Would these people have known that the POPE put King Billy on the English throne
Or that the British financed the building of Maynooth.
Correct. Whatever minor trouble that Irish Protestants presented to that guy, the king of France was a much much greater concern. So Good King Billy had his full backing in the struggle to oust the Stuart element.
@@gearoiddom billy was blessed by the pope before the battle of the Boyne
Why not paint "we are loyal to a country where the head of state is also head of a church" We are loyal to a country where Catholics cannot be prime minister or head of state" We are loyal to a country where the protestant only prime minister appoints Protestant only bishops to the house of lords" Aye, home rule is Rome rule indeed. lol!
Very well said.
Boris Johnson is a Catholic
@@ianofliverpool7701 He converted after the fact.
@@ianofliverpool7701 then why didnt they listen to that oaf and form a government in the north, the dup wouldn't care if the head of state told them directly what to do, they simply exist to divide
@@dropit7694 because big Ian was a table thumper and wild eyed demigod....start a row in an empty house
Very interesting . Very charming people and shows how the whole situation might have been dealt with differently if there had been more talk earlier.
I think by 1973 Ireland had already started to drift away from the influence of the church. Maynooth was not really representative of Ireland at the time. UCD, UCG or UCC would probably been a better reflection of what was going in in Ireland. Even so the Maynooth girl towards the start seems to be a bit mystified at the notion that the church was still overly influential. Most people in my recollection had by then tolerated the church but didn't take it that seriously. Not may people lived in fear of the clergy. Fintan O'Toole describes this peculiar shadow relationship with the Church very well in his book 'We don't know Ourselves".
I found the protestants anything but charming - they were extremely rude
@@SigismundusRex ...and they got worse as time passed. Very confrontational, extremely 'proud', judgemental, opinionated and low in intelligence.
I was thinking the same thing. They didn't really want to learn and when multiple people told them it wasn't how they thought it was they changed the subject and then proceeded to talk over the next person. but shur God love them they didn't even realize how they came across probably. When you think you are right and are close minded that's how it is. @@Optimus18
The roman catholics have won the debate hands down.
Irish Catholics .
With a name like Kelly you should know better. The word is Catholic.
To be fair it wasn't much of a debate.
@@johnhiggins779 Children take the religion of their mothers Mr. Higgins, I was CoI. And they are Roman Catholics who incidentally won the debate over these half headed Presbyterians
@@johnhiggins779 Roman Catholic or Catholic is used interchangeably
They criticize the influence of the religion in the South (and in some ways rightly so) .. but ironically they are the only ones mentioning it .. they are the ones who keep bringing religion up.
The Maynooth Grant was a cash grant from the British government to a Catholic seminary in Ireland. In 1845, the Conservative Prime Minister, Sir Robert Peel, sought to improve the relationship between Catholic Ireland and Protestant Britain
The young nun seems to be Sr Briege MCKenna
FIGHT!!!!
It has changed since 1973, bring them back now see how things have changed...
7:11 Vistior: "Do you think we're bigots?" Student: "no, if you were bigots you wouldn't be here talking to us". I'm not sure, but I think that student might be Dermot Farrell, the present Catholic Archbishop of Dublin.
Christopher hitchens said he didn't take lectures on family values from people whose church was founded by Henry the 8.
Religion makes Faith political despite the fundamental message being the same. Imitate Christ Jesus by loving our neighbour and treat people the way we want to be treated
There Is Only One Queen The Queen Of Ireland And Heaven Our Blessed Lady Mary.☘✝️🇮🇪
And Philomena 😂
The Catholics are so much more informed and friendlier.
There is a sentence you don't hear often!
@@unckieherb your funny
Informed about what, certainly not the teachings in the bible
It's like time travel,,
Catholic Ireland is all but gone,
Up in North of Ireland
Prods have regressed into even more hard-line views,
There a bit of a joke,
Thank god there kids are turning away from there parents 16th center views
Dec Hannigan, the Catholic Church gave you the bible.
1.49 willy wonka meets woody allen
Why was Ireland so polarised along religious lines? I put it down to Lord Randolph Churchill's decision to "Play the Orange Card" against Gladstone's policy of Home Rule for Ireland. In Ireland, that meant over a century of sectarian violence, at first with explicit Tory support, which led to nearly a century of Conservative dominance in Scotland and the industrial class cities of England, as champions of Protestant over Catholic workers.
Religion is played out now, so the Tories have switched to race, lightly disguised as nationality. The new baggage entails a "hostile environment," identity checks, ending human rights, subjecting the Supreme Court to ministerial veto, etc.
Ireland was polarised on religious grounds way before Churchill in the 1880's, and was imbedded in the "management" and governance of Ireland, since pretty much the late Elizabethan Era and Plantations of Ireland.
The 1821 Census results scared the pants off the Dublin and London Establishment, as they thought the Penal Laws had reduced and neutralised the indigenous Catholic population, only to find out that this was the exact opposite and acted as a reinforcing type pillar to the local population, which had multiplied dramatically beyond the initial estimates of the population.
Next step... The Famine, and the systematic depopulation and decimation of the whole island, and to be turned into an agricultural powerhouse to feed the growing Empire and the Mothership of England.
Divide and rule colonial tactics: give one side all the good land, wealth and power, give the other side none and watch them fight each other while you loot the place. Played out in Ireland, Palestine, India, Iraq, amongst others.
Northern Ireland is mental. Look at how old those Unionists look.
Is the phrase ethnic cleansing banned in these comments?
If you're still wondering, it's not.
Not a fan of the more physical methods but if any republicans that wandered across our generous open border try and talk shit about trying to annex us the same way Russia is doing, they should be deported back down south.
Yes
kind of makes you think about gaza eh? same people I am sure.
asking a bunch of catholic priests about Birth Control !! .. WTF !!
The priest with the glasses looks like Joe brolly
The Unionists don't come across well here, at all.
Good for the peace process
I remember a guy in the north (working class loyalist) background he believes the RC Church was a major stumbling block. I reckon he had a point
Typical intolerance
@@frizizzi RC Church told Fianna Fáil and Fine Geal bán divorce and condoms or else we turn public on you.
I'm from a catholic background in the Republic and I'd actually agree with a lot of what the unionists are saying here. The church had too much power down here for too long. Thankfully those days are over. Unfortunately a lot of unionists still seem to have these concerns while we have moved on.
Yet their head of state is also head of the Anglican church and their English prime minister who must be protestant appoints protestant only bishops to the English house of lords. Yes we have moved on but they haven't.
@@williamgoldsmith3796 was Tony Blair not a Catholic?
@@jackietreehorn5561, I think Blair was an Anglican when in office and then "converted" 2yrs afterwards to Catholicism, in line with his wife. Pretty genuine commitment to be fair.
in terms of tradition and protocol, the Prime Minister and Chancellor cannot be Catholics, and I think this is even in the Statute Books, but it very much a legacy and historical carry over from previous eras and conflict with the Rome and the Catholic Church.
@@stevendenny7260 his missus wore the trousers then in the relationship lol....I actually never knew that fact, and if true extremely outdated and discriminative.... imagine if that applied to people of color...are you sure this is still the case in this day and age?
Always the Victims!Intransigence is bred in them.
Surely it didn't happen for no reason the mindset
@@jackietreehorn5561 what didn't happen for no reason?make a point with yer comment.
@@barnwobble sorry I picked u up wrong mate
Thought I was commenting on a different video lol 🤦♂️
Interesting how a man in 1973 in his mid twenties looks like a 40+ year old
People tend to adopt their default clothing and hair styles when they are in their 20s. So you're grandma will have the same hairstyle for 50 years and you only associate it with old people. That's why young people in old photos look "old" to you, you already associate their style with old people.
Yep. He is Fred Otley shot dead by the INLA or IPLO aged 44 in August 1988 at the corner of Agnes Street and Shankill Road. So he is 29 years old here.
The passive aggressiveness displayed by these people is plain to see.
They weren't really interested in learning anything from southern people, they were there to put their pov across and to tell everyone how wrong they were.
The loaded questions, the micro aggressions and subtle contempt is in fact the hallmark of a bigot.
I can assure you from personal experience of living and getting to know many northern unionists that they are frightened of the southern state and what they believe is in store for them once the island is inevitability reunited.
They know what the experience of Northern Catholics was in the six counties and are expecting retribution taking the form of the disgusting discrimination and sectarianism to which northern Catholics were treated.
Not understanding that we are just not like them.
Bigotry is the cornerstone of the loyalist mindset and its only now that the people of the south are finally seeing it with their own eyes thanks to social media.
Oh how they're in for a treat 😊
The people of the Republic or the rest of Ireland but not "the South or Southern" please. NI is only a sixth of the island but calling the two parts northern and southern makes it sound like they're equal in size. I'm from the west (Connaught) where Galway, Roscommon, Sligo and Leitrim are, and proud, the south is Munster where Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Tipperary etc are, the east is where Dublin, Meath, Wicklow and more are. There is no such entity as Southern Ireland.
They were living through a hell, 1973 one of the bloodiest years on record at the time and you're there calling out "micro aggressions" 😂 you fool.
That's a uncharatible take, one I think the nuns and priests above would reject. The unionists are a people who have lived on the edge of a volcano for a longtime, there tramatised, far more than there victims in the north, fear, anger, PTSD writ large in them. There also working class, there tribal convictions not softened by cosmopolitanism. Those people need help, to be treated with dignity and understanding, like oppressed working classes everywhere.
That's why the tall priest made the appeal to there common Christianity, to reach out. I think those people would have turned those conversations over in there heads and wishes they had asked different questions.
I can't say I see it this way. The questions were reasonable.
They seemed like a decent bunch. You are close minded and bigoted
Responsible parenthood.
There's only one church and it's not a building made by man. Every knee will bend and every tongue will confess...
As Christ Said To Saint Peter On This Rock I Shall My Church And The Gates Of Hell Shall Not Prevail Against It.☘✝️🇮🇪
The young priests apologising almost for our faith. On the other hand open dialogue is no longer allowed in any sphere of our culture now.
Before southern ireland was conquered without one shot fired.
Hail Glorious Roman Catholic Saints And Martyrs Of Éireann.☘✝️🇮🇪
@@odonnchada9994 Ireland was pagan way before Christianity
@@odonnchada9994 Christianity was forced upon the Irish people....and if they didn't agree burn them at the stake! People's faith is an accident of birth.... Christianity is relatively new too only 2000 years old...other faiths are hundreds of thousands of years old...just saying.... raised a Catholic myself but without offense looking at the bible as a historical document raises an eyebrow or two....fair play to anyone has faith tho...think myself going by the fossils of hominids we evolved from primates..I like the teachings of Jesus tho and lessons for everyone in the book
@@odonnchada9994 look at the evidence, it's as clear as day.....monkeys is just silly, dont think I said that , no one said monkeys ever....ffs unlike the bible though science depends on evidence...no disrespect to anyone of faith, had it myself once upon a time and life experience made me question it and also as a student of history many moons ago...the thing about the gospel writers tho ....three out of four were born a few hundred years after Jesus was alive....if I'm right in saying mark lived around his lifetime but no one can say if he even knew him for sure...I'd like to think if I was writing a book about someone I'd at least want to be born in the same century.....not being insulting to anyone but just saying my point of view as one example
@@odonnchada9994 not a very tolerant point view or attitude to have....live and let live my friend.....another one the bible says the earth is 6000 years old....do you believe that?
The lorry driver was also a uvf man he was took out in 1988.
Proof
@@RobertK1993 Read up on him
The priest was a secret provo🇮🇪
No
In some cases that was true lol.
Some priests may have been, but the hierarchy were solidly pro-British. Maynooth was set up by the British ffs!
Unionists still seem far more bigoted and prejudiced in the intolerant questioning.
So what you call thinking all children should have a right to life and supporting those children in having a right to their mother and father bigoted. Jesus, Mary and Joeseph I fear for the upcoming generations with no values or morals. You think Northern Ireland society is bigoted what about the rest of liberal Europe where millions of children are killed through abortion and young girls are being trafficked so you can have your 21st century p*rn. Clean your own house before you start in anyone else’s!!! 🇬🇧✝️🇬🇧✝️🇬🇧✝️🇬🇧✝️
@@nick-her9275 🇺🇸✝️ 🇺🇸✝️ 🇺🇸✝️
I'm. An American Christian or as Catholics like to call me "protestant"
@@nick-her9275 No just thick Protestant bigots like you
@@RobertK1993 you are Christian-phobic
Interesting to hear how so many of the points of contention brought up by these unionists are theological (at least ostensibly). It's bizarre how old fashioned that seems now. Nowadays most religious people on the island are a lot less strict and many aren't religious at all, so very little sectarianism (in the strict sense of the word) comes into play in the unionist/nationalist divide.
It's funny to see the unionists in this video criticise how the south forbids dirty books and contraception, when now the south has a greater track record of culturally liberal policies than the north (too liberal for many modern protestants), and a population that is only nominally catholic and barely takes the church seriously at all. Still, without those old arguments, there is a subset of modern unionists that remain as loyal as ever, because it was always more about national identity than it was about religion.
Old fashioned yes, outdated yes, progressive.....no
It’s kind of not a fair set-up, simple people whose education even in their own tradition goes only as far as a few handy slogans up against highly educated nuns and priests. They were naturally rather nervous and defensive come face to face with what they’d been taught to see as archvillains, given that I think they handled it pretty well.
Before accusing the Protestants of being ignorant or uninformed, it's worth remembering that they were ordinary working class people talking to university students or graduates. So of course the Catholics sounded better informed. RTE really should have tried to be a bit fairer in the set up. And as for filming their first encounter as they standing outside on a cold winter's day... come on, how's that supposed to help?
No one is 'accusing' them of being 'ignorant or uninformed'...they are ignorant and uninformed, very clearly so. Its not something that needs to be debated.The were also very rude, judgmental and confrontational.
@@Optimus18 his username speaks volumes about tolerance and accusations
@@Optimus18 Go back in time to 1970s working class Dublin and choose a few adults who left school at 16 to work full time. Put them on a bus and drive them to Queens University Belfast and get them to meet some of the most articulate, best educated people in the North. Get them out of the bus without giving them either a toilet break nor a cup of tea and make them confront each other in the cold and rain. Film the whole encounter and yes, with a bit of editing, you'd be able to make them look very rude, judgmental, ignorant and uninformed. But that wouldn't be fair, would it?