How I Almost Made Wasteland 2

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 107

  • @ATOMRPG
    @ATOMRPG ปีที่แล้ว +38

    Hello Tim! You may not know what we do, but nevertheless, I want to say thank you. Thanks to your work on Fallout 1, I found my path as a game developer, and it eventually allowed me to create my dream game. Please don't stop, I want more games from you, and I really hope to shake your hand someday at a gaming expo. Dmytro.

    • @CainOnGames
      @CainOnGames  ปีที่แล้ว +33

      Oh, I’ve played Atom RPG, and I liked it. You keep doing what you’re doing! I’m slowing down and can’t run this race, so you and others need to grab the baton and keep running!

    • @ATOMRPG
      @ATOMRPG ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @@CainOnGames Thank you so much for your response! I honestly didn't think I'd hear back from you. You're amazing and you've made my day.

    • @DaFunkologic
      @DaFunkologic 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I know I'm late to the party, but ATOM RPG rocks! I own it and Trudograd on multiple platforms. Can't get enough of it. Love your work and wish you nothing but amazing success and fulfillment in your endeavors. Bless you for keeping the flame burning strong!

  • @aliakseikukhta5573
    @aliakseikukhta5573 ปีที่แล้ว +96

    Hi, Tim. There is a lot of cool stuff on your background: fallout related items, statues, books. I've been wondering, could you do a "room-tour" video and show them? Also i guess that there are some interesting stories related to those items that you could share with us! Thank you

    • @Lbf5677
      @Lbf5677 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      His background is his background

  • @StavrosNikolaou
    @StavrosNikolaou ปีที่แล้ว +67

    Firstly let me say how lucky we are that you decided to stick with Troika and make Arcanum!
    Secondly, I am so impressed by the comradery between you, Leonard, and Jason during that time. It seems such alignment of values is incredibly rare, especially in creative endeavors.
    Thank you for the story Tim!

  • @kyoujinko
    @kyoujinko ปีที่แล้ว +81

    Sounds like EA was being EA.
    EA, EA never changes.

  • @Kroeghe
    @Kroeghe ปีที่แล้ว +10

    "You're a hard person to find, Mr Kane."

    • @clearsmashdrop5829
      @clearsmashdrop5829 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Sounds like the start of a table top RPG session.

  • @aNerdNamedJames
    @aNerdNamedJames ปีที่แล้ว +12

    The most upstanding EA conduct:

  • @clearsmashdrop5829
    @clearsmashdrop5829 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    It scares me that the 6 year gap between Wasteland 1 and Fallout seemed like forever for GenX me. Now, 6 years ago seems like yesterday.

    • @CainOnGames
      @CainOnGames  ปีที่แล้ว +54

      I know what you mean. I’m GenX too, and starting Fallout in 1994 felt a million years away from Wasteland’s shipping in 1988. And now…I recently replayed Skyrim from 2011, a 12-year-old game!
      Time is weird.

    • @fredrik3880
      @fredrik3880 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Part is age i think so i agree with you there. But part is also back then creativity wasnt corrupt or bankrupt. So if you waited for fallout 3 then there was real hope that it would be amazing (sure there were flops but there was also a lot of greatness). Today it is rivers of trash. So the wait is not really a wait. I mean sure f5 might be good but what are the odds? Since both movies and games are more or less creatively bankrupt the chance we see another IP like Arcanum or Fallout is very low. Even a new fallout game (76 is horrible) like f5 will probably be made in an enviroment where microtransactions will the highest priority and even if not then will it be made by hugely passionate and free workers? Lol unlikely indeed.
      Or baldurs gate 3? The two first were amazing. The third is meh.
      Or look at the movies. It is all remakes of old IPs. Maybe it is the systems. Maybe it is the people. But it isnt working anymore.
      The madmax movie furyroad was great. I seriously doubt a new one would be worth a watch. The new terminator films are horrible. The new starwars films as well. Something is just gone.
      So yeah we play skyrim from 12 years ago. Or Arcanum from 22 years ago.

    • @ikeduno7973
      @ikeduno7973 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      The lengthening of production and 10x multiplying the number of hands feels like a recipe for like, 20x+ the number of meetings where interesting developments are lost. Politics, and all the time taken to carry it out.

    • @fredrik3880
      @fredrik3880 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lilwerner1518 honesty is good.

    • @fredrik3880
      @fredrik3880 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ikeduno7973 the budget is tenfold. The number of workers tenfold. The result is wanting.

  • @jaws8621
    @jaws8621 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Calling every Tim Cain in the phonebook lol. Love your stories.

  • @zanethezaniest274
    @zanethezaniest274 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Alternate title : How I dodged the biggest bullet of my career

  • @bittersweetblueberry3517
    @bittersweetblueberry3517 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    You made the right choice Tim. That EA exec was a waking red flag.

  • @kahrnivor
    @kahrnivor ปีที่แล้ว +39

    You mean EA made a dick move? No way...

  • @PvtSulik
    @PvtSulik ปีที่แล้ว +5

    oof, in regard to that EA shit. "When someone tells you who they are, listen"

  • @Mirokuofnite
    @Mirokuofnite ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Wasteland 2 probably would've 'failed to meet expectations' and EA would've let you go in 2002-2003. Or they would've forced you into making something you didn't want to do. EA killed a lot of good companies around then. Maybe Arcanum would've came out after you got let go by 2006-07. But being a small indie studio then would've been tough. You making your own studio when you did was the prime time to do it.

  • @Steak514
    @Steak514 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    You didn't talk about it on this video but as a gamer I had the exact same thought you had on the DeathClaw in Fallout 4 being totally out place being in the first area. By killing the apex predator in the first moment in the wasteland it made the wasteland feel safe. It was so bizarre. I get why Bethesda did it, to get the action going quick and shock you, but it was the wrong choice. I wasn't thinking of it in terms of game design, just as a gamer I was thinking "huh, that was weird."

    • @Hoppelite
      @Hoppelite ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Bethesda cared more about making the E3 presentation look cool and making F4 more like an action movie than following the tone set by the previous games. Still love Fallout 4, but it’s a far cry from the atmosphere we got from the previous installments. Hopefully they learned their lesson and next time listen to what the long time fans want out of the series, but judging by sales, who knows? Corporations like Zenimax care more about mass appeal than making a piece of art that resonates with the long time fans

    • @lrinfi
      @lrinfi ปีที่แล้ว +4

      "The deathclaw was done *dirty* by Fallout 4." ~ MATN :D
      Bethesda seems to take the interchangable approach even to iconic entities like the Deathclaw. The E3 presentation was obviously staged and yet remained in the game, but it has a lot to do with Bethesda's level scaling as well. Locations are populated with...whatever, anything will do. Low level players get ghouls; higher level players get deathclaws. That kind of thing. I'm not sure they're really thinking about how that interchangability doctrine robs iconic entities, e.g. super mutants and deathclaws, of their uniqueness and identity.

    • @Hoppelite
      @Hoppelite ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lrinfi they should do a mixture of scaling from both Fallout 4 and Morrowind. Like Fallout 4, have certain parts of the map have enemies of a certain level, but also have dungeons within those areas that are high level like in Morrowind. That way you get to explore the map with a sense of progression, but also you can go back to those lower level areas as a high level character and still have new places to see. That way it’s not like Fallout 4 where you do everything in an area at once and then have no reason to ever come back.

    • @lrinfi
      @lrinfi ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Hoppelite Tim is probably wincing at us conversing so much about what Bethesda is doing on his personal, storytelling channel. :) But - hey - if Bethesda is watching, maybe they'll stumble across something beneficial to the future of the company. You never know.
      "In recycling these elements, they've chosen not to be creative in the new setting." ~ Noah Caldwell-Gervais, How Does Fallout 76 Compare to Previous Fallouts (He was speaking specifically of the intensity of the effort to try and explain the presence of the BOS in W. Va., but I think it applies in more ways and circumstances than one.)
      I'd have to agree with that. When I traveled to the Mire region in 76, I was taken aback to see unique creatures, originally designed for Far Harbor, there. Erm, those belong in Far Harbor, not W. Va. So much for the unique setting and atmosphere of Far Harbor?
      Like I said, I'm not sure they're really thinking about things like that in the industry's mad rush simply to get games out the door.

  • @drithius4801
    @drithius4801 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    That secretary is an unsung hero! 😆 Can only imagine being given the task of going through a Southern California phone book and cold calling every T. Cain. HAHA!

    • @gargamellenoir8460
      @gargamellenoir8460 ปีที่แล้ว

      An unsung hero that thought it was hilarious to have a bunch of game devs being fed false hopes and working for something that'll never happen.
      EDIT: The secretary didn't take that decision, I'm saying she also thought it was funny. Laughing at people wasting their time because of a lie is still dickish.
      EDIT 2: I actually confused the secretary who just made contact and the later guy who did find it funny, that's my bad!

    • @TonNyOs
      @TonNyOs ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@gargamellenoir8460 Last I checked, a secretary doesn't have any power in a company when it comes to decision making/product licensing. Maybe I'm wrong and it's up to them instead of CEOs and whatnot.

    • @gargamellenoir8460
      @gargamellenoir8460 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TonNyOs I wondered if I had to specify that I didn't accuse her of being responsible for it, just of finding it funny, but thought it was pretty clear in my formulation. I guess not.

    • @RaddSchmetterling
      @RaddSchmetterling ปีที่แล้ว

      @@gargamellenoir8460 You seem to have mixed up the secretary and the "W" guy Tim was talking to. She only made the initial contact, then passed Tim over to "W". There's zero indication in this video that she found EA's treatment of Interplay funny, or that she even knew about it (she most likely didn't).

    • @gargamellenoir8460
      @gargamellenoir8460 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RaddSchmetterling Oh crap you're right about that, that's my mistake, thanks!

  • @alexan2930
    @alexan2930 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Loved Wasteland 2. It had that Fallout vibe that is actually missing in Wasteland 3.

    • @OscarGiudici
      @OscarGiudici ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Same, and the story was mysterious and intriguing. I really like Wasteland 3, but I prefered Wasteland 2.

    • @indigo4438
      @indigo4438 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It had a vibe, that was missing in any fallout after fallout 2. Wasteland 3 is just an xcom joke 😪

  • @BelarusUnite
    @BelarusUnite ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love to start my day from Timothy's "Today I wanna tall about..." it really makes me happy:)

  • @Lokyate
    @Lokyate ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Cool story Tim. Thanks for all the great insight in to your career and such. A lot of people really appreciate and enjoy it.

  • @zerpblerd5966
    @zerpblerd5966 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    we had an 0x86! no hard drive, just 2 5.25" floppy drives that required having a disk in to boot up!
    Leading Edge from 1985-1986
    didn't get another computer until 1994, a 486x66 - WOW! it was so fast!
    public domain games from the 70s-80s were a thing of the past
    and now I miss them!

  • @bluemooninthedaylight8073
    @bluemooninthedaylight8073 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I really like Tim Cain's scruples. As we saw EA devouring other companies and not really caring about the devs and franchises they gained, this was likely a job best avoided.

  • @_DanielFernandez_
    @_DanielFernandez_ ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you for Fallout . Admire your work. Like these "behind the scenes" vids . Keep em coming. Best wishes on all future endeavors.

  • @JamesLee-mp8hk
    @JamesLee-mp8hk ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It's kind of funny to me that Brian Fargo ended up making Wasteland 2 with Inexile entertainment. Lol

  • @michaelblosenhauer9887
    @michaelblosenhauer9887 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I think we're all glad you didn't do it. You are such a good person with real integrity.
    Sidenote- I had to restart my Arcanum playthrough because Virgil decided to get lost in the forest outside T'sen-Ang. So, now I'm playing a Gnome summoner.

  • @ModernOddity728
    @ModernOddity728 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love that your friends saw the situation with EA the same way and had your back. I think you made the right call for the reasons you stated. Plus, we don't know what would've happened after, whether you would be too tangled up to make The Outer Worlds or not. I'm glad you chose the path you did, glad you have time to do work and tell us these stories. Thanks for sharing, Tim! :D

  • @ikeduno7973
    @ikeduno7973 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That's right where my head was, mid-story, like, I can absolutely put myself in that guy's shoes feeling jerked around by Interplay at the time and being petty in return and loosening his corpofilter w a guy like Timothy on the other end of the line... but to air that dirty laundry over a phone?! As a way to entice a new hire?! Sheesh.

  • @slamjam7676
    @slamjam7676 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I really wish fargo and most of the wasteland team made videos like you do
    Bc getting into the wasteland series now it's so cool 2 and 3 are some of the best post apocalypse games out there and i would kill to get more franchise history straight from the developers

  • @blnematode1267
    @blnematode1267 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I can sure understand how you passed on that opportunity.
    On the other hand, I’d have enjoyed another turn based game from you. Such is life!

  • @shdowhunt60
    @shdowhunt60 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That definitely seems like an incredibly shitty thing to do to Brian Fargo. He clearly feels pretty strongly about Wasteland. Even if the guy was an asshole, trying to weaponize a falling out like that against him just seems exceptionally slimey.
    But then again, this is EA and nothing really is beyond the pale for them.

  • @puckcanuck6396
    @puckcanuck6396 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    your thumbnails are really good Tim

  • @PullingTheBasement
    @PullingTheBasement ปีที่แล้ว

    "Is this the Timothy Cain who made Fallout? Oh, thank goodness!"
    Another lesson in integrity. Chaotic evil: fun in games, bad in life.

  • @ChrisTheCritter
    @ChrisTheCritter ปีที่แล้ว

    1990 played wasteland on the apple II at age 10 and "encountering" the three legged doxy was a defining life event. The intro cut scene was very 'duck and cover' and 1980's red scare. The Church of the Mushroom Cloud was a neat choice that must have informed later nuka based religions and I thought at the time was a cool (RAD! i.e. totally rad) idea.

  • @benwilliams6993
    @benwilliams6993 ปีที่แล้ว

    Principles over paycheck. That's a rare thing!

  • @7billionbees671
    @7billionbees671 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really enjoying the content Tim. These stories offer a very neat inside look to how these things come together, complete aside that globe in the back is sick

  • @YouTubdotCub
    @YouTubdotCub ปีที่แล้ว

    I absolutely love that you decided to do this channel, this is wonderful stuff!

  • @GeomancerHT
    @GeomancerHT ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Looking forward to this video every morning, I will work on my game now :D
    Loving the longer videos, the podcast style suits a lot, I hope you have more of those planned, I make the most of those.

  • @guaymallen59
    @guaymallen59 ปีที่แล้ว

    No Bloodlines? You definitely made the right decision!!

  • @rrrrthats4rs
    @rrrrthats4rs ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I really like InXile's games, but it seems like a lot of people think Brian Fargo is an ass.

  • @Grrymjo
    @Grrymjo ปีที่แล้ว +33

    Some misticism for you: Troyka made only three games, but they became undying classics. And you undoubtedly know that in Russian "troyka" means "three horses pulling one carriage or one sleigh". And in Russian folklore, "three" is a very popular number in choices, wishes, roads to go, and so on.
    Surely, all of this is a coincidence, but a funny one.

    • @endlessstrata6988
      @endlessstrata6988 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I always found the fact that Troika only made three games fitting.

    • @lrinfi
      @lrinfi ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Jung might have called it synchronicity, which has more to do with time and timing. The "power of three" shows up time and again in human myth and folklore. Gebser would probably attribute that to what he called "the magical consciousness structure." If studios are looking for compelling, original ideas for video game storytelling, ntm breaking out of the thesis-antithesis-synthesis form of storytelling, they could hardly go wrong reading the work of someone like Jean Gebser.

  • @sdsdfdu4437
    @sdsdfdu4437 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "Hey it's EA, we screwed with your company. Wanna work for us now?"

  • @nutherefurlong
    @nutherefurlong ปีที่แล้ว

    That sounds like something they'd do. Good for you!!

  • @evilgoy8157
    @evilgoy8157 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well, we need Arcanum 2 too, btw. That game deserves a remaster at least.

  • @uncouthboy8028
    @uncouthboy8028 ปีที่แล้ว

    Definitely some what if alternate history there. Can you talk about the character editor in fallout? Listening to your videos, I think I know why there was a print option, but I'd like to hear more about it. It's a unique feature I haven't really seen elsewhere.

  • @elroma7712
    @elroma7712 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Okey that 3:31 gave me a chuckle. But nevertheless it was a very interesting.

  • @markhill3858
    @markhill3858 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    good instincts :) and twice as important, the ability to act on them.

  • @EvaUnit02
    @EvaUnit02 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for the story, Tim.
    Do you happen to know how Brian Fargo managed to buy the Wasteland IP from EA?
    Thanks.

  • @Saint-PopeJesusBuddhaChaoF.
    @Saint-PopeJesusBuddhaChaoF. ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Tim, love your videos, they're all super insightful and watching is part of my morning! Good on you for following your gut about EA, they don't sound like the most considerate employers. Also, I know you said you couldn't answer many Outer Worlds questions, but would you happen to have any idea if the Iconoclasts and Philosophism were influenced at all by the irl Discordianism? OW is one of my favorite games, and it's due in no small part to the "philosophistic" content.

  • @Icd3000I
    @Icd3000I ปีที่แล้ว

    I can understand this william (especially now)
    and I think you can still call back....

  • @fanda6122
    @fanda6122 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    current wasteland franchise is the only game i can think of that is a spiritual successor to itself twice removed 😂

  • @gargamellenoir8460
    @gargamellenoir8460 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Yup. Sounds like EA all right. Did you warn Interplay that they were being played?

  • @BadBob18
    @BadBob18 ปีที่แล้ว

    It was not hard to play Wasteland! I beat it when i was 11 years old. Still my favorite GOAT.

  • @pancakewizard1533
    @pancakewizard1533 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Did you play or enjoy the actual Wasteland 2 when it came out, Tim?

  • @DungeonDiving
    @DungeonDiving ปีที่แล้ว

    Question: How did Fallout differ before the removal of GURPS? Was the game markedly different?

  • @PostapocMedia
    @PostapocMedia ปีที่แล้ว

    Well, I wonder if you've ever been offered to take part in W2 development when it actually happened (after Kickstarter. etc)

  • @StarsiegeMercenaries
    @StarsiegeMercenaries ปีที่แล้ว

    I like your vids.

  • @jaredgunkle1562
    @jaredgunkle1562 ปีที่แล้ว

    im really glad we got the undiluted goods from troika instead of the ea and sequel baggage of a wasteland 2 we can get apocalyptic rpgs anywhere where else can we get an apocalyptic industrial fantasy rpg or a buffy immersive sim

  • @ian2714
    @ian2714 ปีที่แล้ว

    Random question but are you aware of the Fallout Vault 13 mod for FO4? It's shaping up to be quite the project from everything I've seen so far. A real love letter to FO1. A demo should be coming later this year.

  • @Banefane
    @Banefane ปีที่แล้ว

    Congratulations, you have experienced corporate policy.
    I sometimes wonder why people cry about "no politics" when everything we do is embedded in politics.

  • @OMentertainment
    @OMentertainment ปีที่แล้ว

    In the long scope, EA are super-jerks, so I don't take much of what they say about perspective with much seriousness.

  • @bratttn
    @bratttn ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Sarah Connor?

  • @SCARaw
    @SCARaw ปีที่แล้ว

    Made imply late stage of development

  • @fredrik3880
    @fredrik3880 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey tim it is me fredrik. Never cared for wasteland. I ofc played fallout before i saw wasteland and compared to Fallout wasteland is bland. Good you made Arcanum instead! Just stopped playing Arcanum foe the day. Arrived at black mountain mines. Handcannon human, healing jacket, and charged rings with Virgil, Magnus and dog. With UAP and my balance mod. Great fun!

  • @ognjenfilipovic2851
    @ognjenfilipovic2851 ปีที่แล้ว

    A question, if i may ? If someone would give you to make new Fallout today, do you know exactly what setting would it be , tone , story etc?

    • @CainOnGames
      @CainOnGames  ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Yes. I’ve had a Fallout game designed for years. I release no details of it so that way I know any game like it is just a coincidence.

    • @ognjenfilipovic2851
      @ognjenfilipovic2851 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@CainOnGames Thank you.

  • @ZootBeta-kl2xq
    @ZootBeta-kl2xq ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Tim, if radiation is responsible for Ghouls, then why didn't the world discover about them after Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

  • @juliankraus1011
    @juliankraus1011 ปีที่แล้ว

    I don't know if you talked about this topic before but, how is your relation with Brian Fargo nowadays?
    Hope I don't come out as inappropriate with that question.

  • @jamesbrooks9321
    @jamesbrooks9321 ปีที่แล้ว

    it would have gotten stuck in development hell due to overreaching figures in EA, you would have been blamed for it and replaced, it wouldn't ship until 2010 and be a completely different game

  • @quole1784
    @quole1784 ปีที่แล้ว

    comment

  • @Carcerian
    @Carcerian 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Turning down EA games was probably one of the best decisions you made in your entire career, lol...

  • @VK-sz4it
    @VK-sz4it ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think this is one of the most inspiring of all stories so far.

  • @henrikhendrickson2375
    @henrikhendrickson2375 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Tim, I was just wondering if you've heard of an event called Wasteland Weekend? It's a giant Burning Man-ish festival that takes place out near California City, and some of the attendees definitely celebrate fallout with their costumes. If you ever check it out or are curious, I'd hope to hear that from you. My group makes fake Jet and act like Chem runners... lots of fallout fans among us!

  • @brandonm179
    @brandonm179 ปีที่แล้ว

    Tim, do you have an email for inquiries?

  • @kevinfisher5492
    @kevinfisher5492 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sounds like EA all right. I seem to recall, and my memory may be fuzzy, that The Guardian from Ultima VII was inspired by EA and their way of doing business (looking at the timelines, Trip was still running the show during Ultima VII's development). The Guardian, of course, liked to invade worlds, absorb the resources and destroy them. And EA certainly liked buying companies, absorbing and killing the IP and leaving wreckage in it's wake (which included Origin, Bullfrog and too many others). I'm amazed Fargo was able to somehow wrest control of Wasteland from the Guardian. Of course what EA did with the "System Shock" name is a tale in it's own right, showing just how much EA "cares" about the titles it absorbed. You did well by avoiding working with them, especially in 1998.
    Edited to add: Ah, see my memory isn't so fuzzy: casualaggro.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/ultima-vii-is-one-giant-reference-to-how-terrible-electronic-arts-is/