Episode 72 : 'Kaiapohia, the Pā at Kaiapoi'

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 80

  • @Katy99941
    @Katy99941 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Fantastic presentation. Thank you for bringing this history back to us in this era to appreciate.

  • @davidjanistravels1143
    @davidjanistravels1143 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Excellent vid. Love the 3D graphics, really gives a feel for these once bustling Pa.

  • @rodneyblundell2312
    @rodneyblundell2312 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I’m only 5th generation and am learning so much from this Codger. Thank you

  • @andrewhume3090
    @andrewhume3090 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is an Impressive representation. You have given us a small glimpse of the relatable human side of history, something that is easy to forget .Keep up the good work codger! .

  • @brycepardoe658
    @brycepardoe658 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Matua Kiwi you have outdone yourself as always

  • @njssmythe
    @njssmythe ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks again for another graphic and visual episode, Your telling of our History is so absorbing. Cheers

  • @MozziTāne
    @MozziTāne ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I lived in Rangiora for a few years and visited Kaiapo several times during my time there but was unaware of it's rich history, or the Pa for that matter. So I found this episode very interesting indeed, great work as usual.

  • @simonromijn3655
    @simonromijn3655 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great work. I enjoyed this episode providing a glimpse into the life and economics of a community. I imagine a lot of time went into the 3-d imaging.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Glad you enjoyed it! Yep the graphics are taking too much time but I’m still in the learning phase,! it’s limiting my output, I’ll have to review things re graphics, still , enjoying the learning at the moment.

  • @anthonybrunt46
    @anthonybrunt46 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic. Loved that. Brilliant work.

  • @richardbruce8111
    @richardbruce8111 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you Codger! VERY informative! Good Job! I am another Ol Codger & despite my living a few (80) miles south I have never walked this site Wish you had shown the Impressive Lim,estone Column (mt Somers (KIKI) limestone ,its MUCH better than Oamaru soft muck) It commemorates the aweful demise of the Pa. Thank you also for the factual recreation . Really appreciate the sticking to facts rather than wandering off into woke wacky Woo, as is the tendency these days. We ,especially the young, tend to be trying to over romanticise past history . All history is pretty GRIM (just get a Toothache!) but the real gritty reality is hard for folks (like todays) who have NEVER been cold or hungry to really appreciate the past we have sprung from. ----I shall be going through MORE of your material! Thank you

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      After the Elizabeth Affair I shall be covering Te Rauparaha's siege of Kaiapohia, another turning point in South Island History. I shall look into Mt Somers Kiki, this is the first time I've heard of it.
      Yes people of today think the world was always like this, it makes you shake your head. Cheers

  • @SonilahiG676
    @SonilahiG676 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome mahi as always codger greatly appreciated 👍

  • @tristanhaycock6128
    @tristanhaycock6128 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Kia ora kiwi codger. I love your content! We were traveling through Christchurch today and I made an effort to check out this pa for myself. Thanks for bringing it to life!

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I was at Kaiapohia on Tuesday and Wednesday, missed you by a day or two, what a hoot that would have been if we had been there at the same time. It would have been wet for your visit?

    • @tristanhaycock6128
      @tristanhaycock6128 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@kiwicodger no! We just missed the rain. And you too by the sounds. Oh man. I would have loved to share a coffee. Keep up the awesome work mate!

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  หลายเดือนก่อน

      If you pass through Auckland, happy to meet for a coffee. I am in the Royal Oak area, you can email me at kiwicodger@gmail.com prior to passing through.

  • @TrapaholicNZ
    @TrapaholicNZ ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks again codger I always read about this pa in musket wars & to see it like u show it something else..u don't let us down either may visit that place myself 1 day

    • @TrapaholicNZ
      @TrapaholicNZ 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Went there for hikoi ..definitely a long way from kapiti & kawhia didn't plan it but ended up that way should be a must stop for any 1 visiting waipounamu ..west coast is something else wat a video this is tho makes u proud to be from our beautiful whenua

  • @hamishcook3513
    @hamishcook3513 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video! I grew up and live less than a kilometre away and I’ve driven past many times, but never stopped. I knew there was once a pa there but had no idea it’s significance, I’m going to go have a walk around tomorrow evening. Thank you :)

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      Get the book out of the Library 'Kaiapohia, the story of a seige' by James West Stack. Then visit it again knowing two fascinating stories that led to the Pā's destruction, cheers

    • @johnnymorgan2104
      @johnnymorgan2104 ปีที่แล้ว

      respect

    • @hamishcook3513
      @hamishcook3513 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger Thank you, I will :)

  • @petshopox
    @petshopox ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hi Codger you might find this interesting. In Herries Beattie's 'Tikao Talks' Teone Taare Tikau, the last Ngai Tahu tohunga is adamant that Kaiapoi pa was never called Kaiapohia. From page 123 ... "Now I want you to clearly understand the name was never Kaiapohia. That name is purely a North Island invention, and was first used by a Ngati Awa tohunga, who made a song at Waikanae when Te Rauparaha was coming south, and in what you might call a burst of poetical frenzy he lengthened out the word "Kaiapoi." The new form caught on in the North, although it does not make sense nor agree with the naming by Turakautahi; no self-respecting South Islander would use it."

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I am open as to what the correct name for the Pā may be. JW Stack who wrote 'Kaiapohia, the story of a Seige' (published 1893) used Pita Te Hori as his main source. Pita was born around 1810 and is said to have been at the battle at Kaipohia when the Pā fell. Teone Taare Tikao was born about 1850, his father and uncle were taken captive at Kaiapohia and taken north, then freed after the ToW. Teone is said to have provided Stack with much info on Ngai Tahu also. So really it comes down to who Stack thought was closer to the mark and re the name he has gone with Kaiapohia, which must have been what Pita went with, although that is an extrapolation.
      If there is a reliable source today from Ngai Tahu who can argue this matter it would be good if they added to this thread.

    • @craigkennett6226
      @craigkennett6226 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@kiwicodger Te Rauparaha named it Kaiapohia after eating some of my relations after his successful siege. A pretty reliable source well there are two of them, is that the place name on highway 1 says Kaiapoi Pa which you can see on google maps and also the plain fact that the large town of Kaiapoi just south of there is called Kaiapoi not Kaiapohia. But also poi means to swing or throw which makes sense with kai which is food. To swing food to this one place. Calling it Kaiapohia totally destroys this as being the place of the throwing or swinging of food. So it has to be Kaiapoi when looking at the fact that the Pa was a central place where they gathered to share the food. I see this weak argument on the internet that two testimonials were ignored by many but accepted by some authors from Waruwarutu who was a boy during the time of the siege and Tikao who was born in 1950 with both adamant that it was Kaiapoi and not Kaiapohia. Well hello as if the name of the Pa was never ever mentioned again. It would have been hot topic among Ngai Tahu for years. Did Stack ask Pita Te Hori what the meaning of Kaiapohia was? It doesn't seem so Yet Kaiapoi goes perfectly with the swinging of food to one place

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      @@craigkennett6226 The truth is long lost to us now. It really depends on which Tohanga you wnt to believe. Pita Te Hori has been honoured by Ngai Tahu by having their main building in Christchurch called Pita Te Hori. However I am open to changing my preference if someone can come up with some great argument, back by references.

    • @CraigKennett-sb2bg
      @CraigKennett-sb2bg ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@kiwicodger okay I'll just stick to all the common sense. It comes in handy sometimes like the things I already posted. We all know Turakautahi made it the main place for a food base so kaiapoi makes way more sense than kaiapohia which you nor Pita Te Hori give any meaning to. What does kaiapohia mean? We know what Kaiapoi means and it fits the description of the Pa. A place to swing food to as the main food base for Ngai Tahu

    • @richardbruce8111
      @richardbruce8111 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Some old Maori guys told me when I was a kid that it meant STACK /group of bodies for cooking! / eating...yeah....more than75 years back!

  • @ricklaw7633
    @ricklaw7633 ปีที่แล้ว

    Was shame we didnt meet up. I vist Kaiapohia often this was great to see from the air thank you. :)

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I was sponsored down there to live stream a tournament, managed to wangle extra day and a half to drone Pā. Did Onawe, Takapuneke and Kaiapohia. It was a tight visit alas. Hope all is well with you.

    • @ricklaw7633
      @ricklaw7633 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger all good understand :) All well down here just cold mornings. Just a question what was the reference for paepae hamiti outside the Kaiapohia pa as per the graphics? The reason I ask is this would be very unusual next to a water supply for kai.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ricklaw7633 No reference used, assumptions made. Practically this is only solution. Interested to hear where you think they might have been in such a large Pā. (Paepae Hamuti is stick they held onto for support I believe)

    • @ricklaw7633
      @ricklaw7633 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger Early pa and Villages had paepae (latrines) which served individual houses or small groups of people inside the pa. In hilltop pā, paepae were commonly built on the side of the hill well away from other buildings as you have described. The old people were very careful not to pollute the water supplies as this was for drinking and kai. Paepae Hamuti sticks which if you google you will see but they are still a big question mark.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ricklaw7633 Water collection areas are indicated on MacDonalds map as being on the west side. So as mentioned I have put toilets on east side, or downstream from water collection areas. Where do you think they were? Not sure what you mean by big question mark re pae hamuti?

  • @johnnymorgan2104
    @johnnymorgan2104 ปีที่แล้ว

    and to think that they all, except a few were slaughtered..a sad and sobering place to visit..thanks for the vid/love it.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I have a feeling quite a few managed to escape, but certainly a lot didn't, but that's for another episode :)

  • @vwxyz0002
    @vwxyz0002 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great presentation. The 3D graphics really assist in appreciating the layout and fortifications of the pa. Was there artistic license in the way you laid out the whares in orderly rows or is there evidence to show that this was a typical arrangement? Looking forward to the follow up postings.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi Onslow, alas it is my limited skills with the 3D package, Blender, that has everything in rows and columns. I created a centre road through the Pā and assumed one hapu was on one side the other on the other. This Pā would have changed over its 125 years of existence, I feel that the initial layout would have been more haphazard, then evolved and some structure and system would have developed for efficiency based on experience... we can only surmise now.

  • @drngaawai
    @drngaawai 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Tēnā koe Matua, thank you for this and toue other videos. I whakapapa to Kaiapoi and it is so nice to have such good footage of it to look to and learn from.
    By any chance do you know anything about the Pāhia Pā that were made in Southland following the invasion on Kaiapoi?
    Ngā mihi nui!

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Is that my favourite Ngawai from Oakura? I have done a little research and can't find anything about the Pāhia Pa. Can you tell me more.

  • @jonjon1842
    @jonjon1842 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    There should be huge descriptive monuments at these locations.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      There used to be a staircase arangement that people could climb up and get a high view of the Pā, there was signage etc, but then vandals and age took there toll and all that is gone. Certainly this is a treasure.

    • @craigkennett6226
      @craigkennett6226 ปีที่แล้ว

      This Famous Pa is only half a mile down a shingle road off highway one. No bull still a shingle road and just over the back from them is the flash modern Pagasus settlement. I think it's colonial racism

    • @richardbruce8111
      @richardbruce8111 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Nothing to do with "colonialism OR "racism" .do what you can to live NOW do not try to rewrite history--- read the terrible fall of this Pa , then work to make a better world today. Maori history --like ALL history was mostly cruel full of slavery domination torture cruelty & mayhem! ,women got the worst too .don't rewrite the past ..do BETTER!@@craigkennett6226

  • @tommcg7564
    @tommcg7564 ปีที่แล้ว

    Usually tuahu or alters comprised two main parts for divination. Tuahu-nui-o-rangi which represented life, and PukenuioPapa which represented death. The tohunga would sometimes prop stick, do his incantations. If the sticks on Tuahunuiorangi didn’t fall was seen as a good omen

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes I have read something along the lines of your comment. There were so many different Tohunga rituals, many particular to Iwi.

  • @jonjon1842
    @jonjon1842 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Gosh they were clever

  • @MsHburnett
    @MsHburnett ปีที่แล้ว

    E you cpvered ngatikahungunu? Over Gisborn way? My ansestors. Id like to know if they were part of hone's human smorgasbord

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      Check out episodes 50 and 51. It wasn't only Hongi who was at the dinner table. I will do more on Ngati Kahungungu and Te Wera (Ngapuhi) in the future.

  • @blind377
    @blind377 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would highly reccomend He Pukapuka Tataku I Nga Mahi a Te Rauparaha Nui (A Record of the Life of the Great Te Rauparaha). a great read.

    • @blind377
      @blind377 ปีที่แล้ว

      I would also recommend th-cam.com/video/xS5NddAkUgs/w-d-xo.html RNZ's NZ Wars: Stories of Wairau | Documentary

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes I must get hold of this book. Most of the period that I am covering Tamihana was a wee boy,. I have to be careful reading these accounts as they get swayed by time and the desire to have their ancestors look good. Others have recommended it also, but have heaps of reading on my plate at the moment.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      Not a huge fan of Mihi or Vincent, but will watch it to see if they are still one-eyed. Also its around 1840+

    • @blind377
      @blind377 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger Mm I just like to keep in mind the New Zealand Company and the Crown had their own best interests in their accounts too. I think it’s a very complex relationship, that between the Crown and Maori, though nonetheless I think there is a lot of importance in that relationship itself- to what it means to have a place, a state, built on that relationship.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@blind377 there’s always 2 sides to a story, as long as both are presented then that’s all one can ask.

  • @Maori_Toa
    @Maori_Toa ปีที่แล้ว +2

    wow. your reo pronunciations have come a long way, 🎉🎉
    tip; te is pronounced tear said fast 👍💯

    • @toddfather7541
      @toddfather7541 ปีที่แล้ว

      And Tōhunga - the -hu- in Tōhunga is a -u- not a -a-, it's not Tōhanga if that makes sense👍🏻, I love his mahi I didn't want to correct him on such a little couple of things when his mahi is magnificent. Love the way you addressed it, nice.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      Cheers team, my Te Reo is a work in progress. Happy for these suggestions to come my way.
      Justin Smith, big shout out to him for his assistance. also.

  • @irianscott1062
    @irianscott1062 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Correction: Waitaha do not come from the Te Arawa. that is Waitaha-a-Hei. The first people, according to our traditions, are the Rapuwai. Next came the Waitaha, who were related to the Rapuwai. South Island Waitaha are from the Uruao and Huruhurumanu canoes, and along with all other S.Island tribes, are traced back to Rakaihautu. Even Toi and Rauru descend from Rakaihautu. Kati Mamoe are the Ngati Whatumamoa of Heretaunga, and like Waitaha, are a very old iwi. They married into Waitaha. Kai Tahu, who go back to Tahu-potiki, were also part of Ngati Kahungunu and Ngati Awanuiarangi (Te Kahea). They married into Kati Mamoe whilst still in the N.Island and when they came to the S.Island. Peace was finally arranged between the two peoples around 1785. Turakautahi rebuilt or modified the pa site, giving it the name Kaiapoi. Before then, it was known as Te Kohanga-a-Kaikaiwaro. The Huirapa gate was for use by members of the Kati Huirapa hapu, for which I am a member.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I enjoyed your comments. My talk on the Iwi that had come down was quite basic. Your comments add some great detail. Many thanks!

    • @irianscott1062
      @irianscott1062 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@kiwicodger I also enjoyed the graphics provided. Keep up the good mahi.

  • @ruthlessgaming3869
    @ruthlessgaming3869 ปีที่แล้ว

    Te Rauparaha was a real menace to southern Maoridom.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Wai Pounamu would never be the same again....what Hongi did to the North Island from Whangarie to Roturua, Te Rauparaha did to the Horowhenua all the way to the middle of the South Island. He definitely was a real menace!

    • @ruthlessgaming3869
      @ruthlessgaming3869 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger Yup two peas in a pod, also I would like to point out that I heard from somewhere but I’m not entirely sure but wasn’t the name Kaiapohia Te Rauparahas victory slur made about Kaiapoi after its fall. I think it mocked the meaning from the pilling of food (Kaiapoi) to the Pilling of Bodies (Kaiapohia) to eat.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes I have come across similar writing about Kaiapoi/Kaiapohia. The monument on site was instigated by James West Stack and he opened and dedicated the monument. The inscription has the Pā site as Kaiapohia, he was fluent in Te Reo and intimate with Ngai Tahu in the area. I find it impossible to think that he got it wrong, hence my use of Kaiapohia.

    • @ruthlessgaming3869
      @ruthlessgaming3869 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger Oh alright interesting well I trust your research more than mine lol.

  • @stewartlee8858
    @stewartlee8858 ปีที่แล้ว

    looks cold and wet

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว

      Keeping warm back in the day must have been a full time job!

  • @toddfather7541
    @toddfather7541 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Awesome work. Love to see you do one on Tauwhare pā in Ohiwa (Ohope/Whakatane), one day♥️💛💚

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I visited the Tauwhare Pā in March 2021. Its an excellent complex ...of course I droned it. I shall see if there is a story that needs to be told about this Pā and its people, or do you know of one?

    • @toddfather7541
      @toddfather7541 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger Yes there is a beautiful story I'm sure you will love. Long story short, about how a relationship between a whakatohia lady and a ngatiawa man from Tauwhare pā had a baby that when her jealous man from whakatohia came with all the wakas full of warriors to war for her, she stood and held the baby and threatend to drop it off the cliff if they fight. The war party turned around and that famous event United whakatohia and ngatiawa to this day. Very dull way I just told the story I gave it no justice at all lol, but it is easy to find someone in whakatane who would love to work with you on it... Oh love your reo♥️💛💚. I will try find a contact for you. Might be a good one for ya because it is very accessible. There are many stories in that area because many tribes from around that area all used Ohiwa as their pantry for Kai. Love your work.

    • @kiwicodger
      @kiwicodger  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Cheers for your reply....alas, this series is on the Musket Wars, not Musket wars love stories :)...although I did enjoy your gem of a story above. I looked up Tauwhare Pā in Ron Crosby's Musket Wars but its not mentioned. Good for the people of Tauwhare Pā, but alas no major battles there...please prove Ron wrong and we'll do an episode!

    • @toddfather7541
      @toddfather7541 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kiwicodger absolutley agree, I forgot this is a separate series on musket wars, I love it how it is forget my comment. Maybe one day in another series of stories and events. There was no musket war at Tauwhare pā sorry completely different time line.👍🏽