Where do you stand in this debate? Would you prefer to Sonic Movies to be more “faithful” to the games with gameplay elements, references, Easter eggs, music, etc?
No Matter what, we should all be happy with what the people have made and the decision made, but I do believe that the game music should be in the movied
i feel like the junkie shit is the most offended the fanbase has ever felt because 1. sonic is well known for the music 2. junkie HATES video game osts 3. junkie loves ai we had so many red flags but sega doesnt give a shit
Sega isn't the one directly hiring him though, to think that is misguided. Sega handled the rights to Paramount and they are the ones hiring the people for the team, while Sega (of Japan most likely) oversees and either approves or disapproves. Sure you could argue Sega is still responsible for the hiring but it's far more logical to go to Paramount. Still I don't mind the guy hired for the music. It's a movie so it's not gonna have an amazing OST anyway.
@@DarkkirbyKRPG still sucks because they have people who worked on sonic before working on the movie (crush 40, hyper potion, etc) but theyre not even utilizing them and instead replace them with pop culture songs or generic orchestra songs all theyve done at best is put some leitmotifs of songs and references in the movies, but considering this is an adaptation of a game that has CITY ESCAPE and LIVE AND LEARN im just scared theyre just gonna fuck everything up
@@homersodysseus 1. ai just sucks 2. this makes junkie look sketchy as fuck 3. THEY LITERALLY HAVE CRUSH 40 AND ALL THE OTHER COMPOSERS WHY ARE THEY USING AI FOR THIS SJDHCHXB
While I think some criticisms are less constructive and straight-up rude, I think people are valid to be upset about the lack of faithfulness to the games. As annoying as some fans can be, if no one raised their voice we'd still have 1 bombed film with an ugly Sonic.
@@futureblade6099 I think they should be faithful to a certain degree, but also be able to freely create their own canon, lore, logic and universe. If it deviates too far from what Sonic actually is, it stops being a Sonic adaptation and can end up like the Penders era of Archie Sonic for example (though tbh it had good aspects too). It's hard to balance but it can be done.
The issue is where do you draw the line at what determines what is faithful to the games or not? Alot of people like to definitely say what is "True" Sonic but most fans can barely come to a consensus about what that entails or looks like, cause so much of lore and continuity wildly changes depending on which game and what era. Tone, atmosphere, characterization, are so inconsistent in the games that it's impossible to pick one part and say "This is what Sonic is supposed to be" without making another part of the fanbase mad. It doesn't help that some of the writers involved currently are taking inspiration from a variety of sources in the franchise that aren't the games, which of course depending what who you ask is either "bringing Sonic back to his former glory" or "straying away from what makes Sonic work". So I'm afraid it's not as simple as just being "faithful to the games." Although I will agree that the OG design for movie Sonic was bad though, but I'm also one of those people who also believe that whole thing was a publicity stunt to generate controversy and gain attention anyways.
Never forget that they used Emerald Hill Zone in the teaser trailer for Sonic 2 and didn’t use it in the movie. They have the ability to do this, yet they choose not to.
You think that's bad? How about that scene where Sonic is carrying an unconcious Tails while running away from an avalanche? That scene, much like the drowning scene, is supposed to be dramatic- however, the tension is completely broken when it's revealed that Tom uses the Green Hill Zone theme as his ringtone. This is incredibly ironic considering Tyson Heese's statement about not having "ooh they did the thing I member" moments. Am I not supposed to be invested in the scene?
Most people don't watch movies to review them, we ate just there to enjoy the movie. I don't care if a movie has a simple plot. That doesn't mean it's a boring movie.
Honestly they should add the Video Game music into the movies, it's not just for a reference but because it a bloody awesome soundtrack. It's not a deal breaker for me but it would be nice to have. The japanese version of Sonic X (Let's all say it. Screw 4kids) had live Live and Learn in the finale of the fight against the Finalhazard. And it was so much better than the versions with the more generic music.
Sonic X Dub is horrible. They took all the 'art' out of it and just pushed it as a simple kids cartoon. Sonic X had just as much passion as with the live action movies.
Tbh it wasn't totally 4Kids' fault that Live & learn wasn't in the Sonic X English dub. They didn't stupidly remove it on purpose, the real reason why it was replaced in that Finalhazard scene with generic music is because something prevented that anime dubbing studio from being allowed to get the rights to that banger song.
@@Hedgie3 Bruh, ive watched the sub in its entirety and its not just that song. The whole background music from 4kids ruines the ambience of a lot of scenes. The music also never shuts up in the dub while the sub has a good balance in using BGM and having silent moments. The music themes in the sub are also more memorable. Its absolutely 4Kids fault🤣🤣🤣
@@SAsaiyajin The lack of that 1 song isn't their fault, but yeah that the rest of the soundtrack being changed in an immature way is thieir fault. I understand how much better handled the music in the sub is because I've been watching a version of Sonic X on Blu-ray made by Discotek that is a lot more faithful to the sub version and has English subtitles too so that I can read what the characters are saying.
@@Hedgie3 Than they shouldve done their best, they literally dubbed Pokémon as well and they didnt change the bgm as you constantly hear covers from the videogame music. They were also less strict with the movies as well when it came to censoring. So why with Pokémon but not with Sonic X which also rode the wave of Pokémon (hence why they added Chris Thorndyke). So i get you but no i still blame them.
The problem with the Mario movie was that it was so focused on references that it didn’t have much of a story, something that Tyson hesse acknowledged when he said that if fans were so concerned with references, theyd be taken out of a scene. Since the average movie goer might not get the references, they could be weirded out by a movie going, “DO YOU GET IT!? WE DID THE THING!”
I thought the Mario movie was just fine. The plot was thin, but it was a silly adventure comedy that didn't need to be anything more than that. It felt like a Mario story and it was fun. My only gripe with it is the usual "let voice actors do the roles" complaint and their being more determined with making Peach a girlboss than with making her funny.
I think the movie was ok. It's not really the spectacle I thought it would be when I heard people praising it so much, but they were longtime fans, so of course they loved it so much. It has many references and easter eggs that they can understand. But from a storytelling perspective, it's nothing special
@@PlayStonkers That's true, I'm just saying that the film as great as what it was supposed to be, but it's not a model that should be followed by other movies, if those movies want to make exciting stories. I heard that the Sonic Movies want to expand the lore and be epic, so I don't think they should follow the example of the Mario Movie
What this video said was very well said. For both Sonic movies and the Mario movie, I feel like there was more references from the games, while Sonic doesn’t have a lot. In the drowning part of the second movie, I couldn’t really hear the drowning theme. I know people have their own opinions on why they think the Sonic or Mario movie is better. At least Sonic 3 sounds like it’ll have the most references.
In my opinion, the Sonic movies do references just fine. Not only are they sparse, but each reference is given more importance. For example, Jojo giving Sonic his iconic shoes to replace his old tattered pair. We get to see sonic's iconic shoes through a heartwarming scene. Another is Sonic's inability to swim first being shown in a fishing scene, then used as a way to make Sonic's journey across the ocean to stop robotnik and knuckles all the more impactful. Also, Sonic willingly sinking himself deep into the water to save knuckles. You see? The sonic movies may not have that many references, but the ones they do have are given depth and importence. Meanwhile the Mario movie (which does have a few good references) just shoves an endless amount of references in your face for the sake of showing them, rarely ever implementing them in a clever way or giving them more importence. I still love the Mario movie, but in my opinion, Sonic handles references WAY better.
@Mr.Feather130 hm, good question. I don't remember too much from detective pikachu since I watched it a LONG time ago,. Let me think... Honestly, I think detective pikachu handles references pretty well. The interrogation .scene with Mr Mime showed off its personality brilliantly while showing off Tim's knowledge of pokemon. Mewtwo's lore was explored, and he was a key character to the plot. Pikachu learning how to use volt tackle and sending mind controlled mewtwo through a building was a badass and impactful scene; especially since pikachu couldn't use moves for most of the movie. Ditto was a pretty good antagonist (disguising itself as the rhime city mayor and taking his place, disguising as a person to spy on tim and pikachu, transforming into multiple different pokemon to fight Tim). The substance that makes pokemon go psycho mode could be a reference to an obscure item in the games called the berserk gene that raises attack and special attack but causes confusion (though it could just be a reference to the detective pikachu game). There's probably a lot more references in detective pikachu that are more than just cameos, but my memory on it is blurry. Honestly, Sonic is credited as being the first GOOD video game movie in history, but I think that title should go to Detective Pikachu.
@Mr.Feather130 what's funny is, back when detective pikachu released--from what I remember--everyone was saying it's a good movie. Nowadays, people either don't talk about it, say it was ok, and a few even said it was bad (I'm looking at you Auragaurdian xD). In my opinion, it was a great and underrated movie.
@@cashbrady4074 they might not get mad at a toy but it’s an example that they simply get mad at anything they see just because one tiny detail that most people don’t notice and trust me I’ve seen sonic fans mad at toys
Listen, I known junkie XL for a while and he created amazing musical Masterpieces in amazing movies like Zack Snyder's Justice League, The Matrix trilogy, Alita Battle Angel and Amazing Spider-Man 2 now I know that his musical pieces in the Sonic Movies were not faithfully adapted from the source material but now that the Mario Movie is out I really hope that Tom AKA Junkie XL will take the source material more seriously I also heard that the guy who wrote dreams of an absolution is involved in the music department in Sonic 3 So I have faith that this will go well!
Going off a interview with JunkieXL done after Movie 1 did it sound like he only ever even considered Megadrive/Genesis era music (as he was almost exclusively talking about it in the context of that systems sound chip) so I have very little hope here my self.
People forget that Junkie wanted to have game motifs as far back as the first movie, but was told he couldn't. The most he got was the little nods to Green Hill. Tho he did incorporate some of SatAM and AoSTH motifs in both Sonic 1 and Sonic 2.
@@Chaogod1233 I'll try to send you a link in a second post but can't promise anything as TH-cam very often blocks all my comments with links in them. At any rate did he always talk about it as "Gamey" music and how "tom and Jerry always sounded 100 times more fitting" and how "Game music isn't bombastic enough for a movie" all of which make really no sense if he also accounts for the post 1998 games all of which have big movie like bombastic and emotional event music.
I'm just gonna say it, sonic shouldn't follow in marios direction. The Mario movie was just references the movie, and while it had video game music, it also had a bunch of basic 80s music. The sonic movies have a perfectly fine amount of references
that’s literally the reason why people didn’t like the mario movie that much, they said it was just for old mario fans with a reference every 2 seconds
As a sonic fan, I apologize for the people who won’t hush. Just enjoy the movies and don’t worry whether it relates to the games 100%. it’s NOT the games and the games still exist you can come back to it later 👍🏻👍🏻 Although I understand the frustration from other fans but it’s fine if the movies don’t want to ALWAYS reference the games because it is it’s own thing. It can still be enjoyable without too many Easter eggs and they are pleasant when they come along because they aren’t as plentiful. 😊 The movie is making its own identity. -a longtime sonic fan ranting
I could probably live without a few easter eggs as long as they don't try to cram down that spew of celebrity pop culture nonsense, and as long as they follow the MAIN plot faithfully enough to be called a proper adaptation.
@@MakaYTGOOFYGOOBERIt’s just, I don’t see this stuff as Easter eggs. Like, referencing Dr Robotnik’s Mean Bean Machine in the form of a Coffee Shop is an Easter egg. But like, okay imagine in the next movie we have the City Escape scene. Sonic’s evading G.U.N, he’s boarding and grinding across rails and streets. And instead of playing Escape From The City they’re playing… Beat It by Michael Jackson. Cause that’s something that isn’t brought up, sure it would be nice to have new tracks. But will that happen? I don’t think so. It always seems to be an 80’s song. Heck even the Mario Movie had Take On Me for some reason. It just doesn’t seem like an Easter egg, it just feels like what’s supposed to be playing.
@@isitjustin4459 good point, I see where you’re coming from and I also really hope they have elements from the more iconic songs or the entire song itself for those types of things
ok the main thing im worried about is the fact theyre going to rip out the core themes of sa2 which really hold a pivotal part of sonic and the values surrounding him i dont think music would affect that much (i too think that it doesnt matter if there's references or not / how many there are, the music should be memoriable for a sonic movie as sonic as a franchise has had constant bangers and I THINK they should cook for their biggest feature film.. that just me tho) i am praying they keep the parts which really moved me within it. maybe even make it *better* ... they have the capability being in a whole new media + new technology and money . we want this to be good but i also agree ! it doesnt have to be packed with references, i rather it give us new material for this iteration... just overall, i think the anti-corrupt / anti-government and existentialism within the story + the horrors of GUN and humanity must be shown for what they are. i know they have the resources to really make this worthwhile + it's very interesting seeing them adapt to film as a filmmaker myself.. im excited but also worried for what lies ahead
A balance can be reached, having leitmotifs from the games mixed with a more dynamic film score is literally the best of both worlds. I honestly doubt the movie will even have anything resembling the Finalhazard fight but if it did it would be so cool to have a musical nod to Live and Learn, but that doesn't mean straight up using the og song in place of a film score.
Here's my question. Can anyone off the top of their head name a song from either movie that was an original song that they liked and actually listen to? I am not asking for a name of the song just the scene. And that's just it doubt anyone can without needing to look it up. It's all forgettable generic music.
@@Chaogod1233 That's how most movie/show scores are, it doesn't mean it's bad. Background music for films isn't meant to be short, catchy and looped indifinitely like most game music is, it's meant to just enhance the feelings of scenes (think how horror or suspense film scenes use violins to give a feeling of dread and anticipation).
Lets be fair here. Sonic movie is way other kind of movie than mario movie. The only reason mario movie was so popular is because the mario fan base are pretty crazy, and go insane just hearing his name. Sonic actually has a plot along with iconic momments such as super sonic transformations. Mario plot is almost as light as sonic superstars's plot. It litterally feels like watching a gameplay of mario 3d world and odyssey on the big screen. Instead of a good plot they went with a full burst of nostalgia. If we take the mario movie plot but put completely other characters to it, it would hardly get a 40% rating. Same thing with the video games too. Lets take Mario oddysey and sonic frontiers. We all know that frontiers plot is way better than the one in odyssey. Anyway my point is we should be gratful with what we have instead of always comparing with mario, because its not worth it.
@@YoyoGame34 I'm not saying the movies are bad, I just don't like that they're live action. I feel that they would be way more fun to watch if they where animated. And seeing Sonic characters in the real world like how the Alivn and the chipmucks movie's were is so visually uninteresting to me. And the Knuckles show only made me feel this way even more.
@@Chadzilla_the_Keyblade_welder I guess that's just your opinion. Personally, I don't think the movies would have been this successful if they weren't live action. It's just 2 different opinions, really.
@@YoyoGame34 Spiderverse, Puss in boots 2 and TMNT Mutant mayhem were pretty successful. As well as the Mario movie. I feel that the Sonic movie's would have still done well anyway because it's a recognizable IP. Sonic is just as recognizable as Mario.
Sonic fans need to realize that the Sonic movies are primary for the general movie audience. The amount of references and music will be limited to only fit in when it is absolutely necessary. Considering the storyline I am sure there will be a lot of references and Sonic music in Sonic The Hedgehog 3.
@@rynobehnke8289 And if it actually does play in the movie then your comment will definitely not age well. At this point it's the most obvious that it will play in the movie because the movie is taking inspiration from sonic adventure 2, so it not not having live and learn in it would not make sense.
@@alexanderlouden See I have next to no trust into the music lead of the movies so while I would love to be proven wrong would I not get my hopes up to much. Even if its in it might it not even be plot relevant and instead be treated like Green Hill theme was in Movie 2.
The Mario movie is not the same though. It doesn't have real people, it's not set in the real world. Sure, it has representations of real world locations, but still. Please, as a Sonic fan, I beg the other Sonic fans to just shut up and stop desperately digging to find an excuse to complain about something.
Yet just because the movies are different base on the type of film they are doesn’t change the fact both movies are based on video games and that shouldn’t be a discouraging issue it should in fact encourage music from the games
People are allowed to feel however they want about these movies. I don't like that the Sonic movies are set in the real world with all these new boring human characters instead of actual Sonic characters
How is that even an argument since when does "Real People" Equate to "Needs to have generic Hollywood music that is all just a big rip-off of "The Planets" anyway"? Like we talk music here not character design. Never mind that its inherently ridicules as Sonic 1 and 2 were composed as movie OST's by there composer and games since adventure always have a big action movie setup with event music specifically written for the same purpose as they are for a movie. And that doesn't even address that all of these live action flicks and up using licensed music anyway which is entirely unaltered and as such almost never fitting unless a scene was directed specifically for it. This is especially bad when there choice for licensed music even than could be more inline with the games Like the Snowboard segment in Movie 2 goes really well with "The Jetzons" "Hard times". And even ignoring all of that is that still no excuse for the generic performance for the Sonic Movies which gets criticizes even by JunkXL's own fans for being below his usual work. So even if we just want to have a fully original OST for the movies is what we current have got just under performing.
I'ts mario, that's literally the target audience, not adults, it's totally okay to like it or sonic, i know i do, but these things are made for children, as they should, let them enjoy it as you did when you where little.
@@meyelejuega3602 im saying they couldve gotten a bit more emotional towards the scenes where it felt needed in the Mario movie and ofc im not saying make it mature, but I hate when people compare the Mario & Sonic movies, they are in 2 different leagues of quality
Imean ofcourse they are still targeted for kids, but atleast the Sonic movies arent fully bland as the mario movie when it comes to the plot and can take itself a bit more seriously where its deemed appropriate for a more emotional scene in a way that older audiences can still enjoy them.
Sonic fans: Sega is too reliant on nostalgia and references! Also the Sonic fans: there’s not enough nostalgia and references in the movies! God these people can never be satisfied, if you ask me Mario was too reliant on references and nostalgia, I think the Sonic films should stand on their own without a bunch of game references so that people who don’t play the games can enjoy it too
Look there is a big difference. Sega is too reliant on nostalgia and references in the GAMES while There aren’t enough references and nostalgia in the MOVIES. If the Sonic movie references Green Hill Zone yea that makes sense. It’s the beginning of this medium of Sonic content. Nobody would be tired of seeing it used in the movies. But we’ve been begging Sega to make new original stages for the games for YEARS and they just keep cramming the same three stages down our throats. There is a big difference.
We only know they licensed it that is no guaranty that they gonna put it into the movie. Movie 2 also licensed Emerald Hill yet only used it in the trailer. And mind you unless I was misinformed is JunkieXL also the same guy that decided to cut the Godzilla theme from Godzilla vs King Kong so him cutting iconic music peaces in favor of more of his own generic Hollywood Music certainly has precedence outside of Sonic.
In the next few years video game movies will adopt the game music to massive success, most notably with the Zelda movie, I'll put cash on that. But sadly Sonic 3 came too early in the era. Funny that modern videogames started with Sonic and Mario, and modern videogame movies started with... Sonic and Mario
LMAOOO bro my premiere pro (which I pay a lot for) has been broken for over a month I literally cant use it anymore so I had to use capcut. To be fair though, its lowkey fire.
It's one of these moments when you must tell the fans to stop acting like dorks. The Mario movie was a curiosity aimed at normie parents and their babies; nobody genuinely say this movie is amazing and it's fine that movies for 5 years old exist but at some point we must stop comparing Mario to Sonic in any kind of situations. I highly doubt you can conclude that the Sonic movies have something to learn from the Mario movie. The audience isn't even the same. Mario was for small children and Sonic is obviously for an older audience; it tries to be a real thing. It's like these lame feedbacks come from the crowd who liked the meta era. The spirit is way more important than the references.
Man, if the next sonic movie could be the unleashed storyline that would be amazing. But I would also hope that they could build out the little sonic universe in order to give us sonic heroes.
Am I the only one who finds it funny that Sonic fans won't stop whining about how Frontiers is always referencing the past games but those same people are complaining that the movies don't have enough references in them IDK maybe just because I hold a grudge against the community for the absolute BS topics the complain about
@@owlomar2007 I guess but every time characters act like games never happened people complain that quote " it feels like they learned nothing " like tails every time he acts like a coward people always say it's like he learned nothing from the adventure games
I think that you kinda underestimate how many people know Sonic music when they hear it, not even just the drowning theme. Putting in more like that WILL make a good movie better, and even a bad movie slightly better. Sure, they can have original tracks, but if none of them feel like Sonic music, it just loses its touch (basically, original tracks with the same feeling as the game tracks can work, but they should also put in said game tracks). (Reposting from my own reply to a different comment)
Asking for the movie soundtrack to be "they did the thing" is the exact attitude that got us stuck in Green Hill limbo since freaking 2011, which we haven't escaped to this day as seen with Sonic x Shadow Gens. Yes, the movies do need more aspects from the games, but they also need to be organically added into them, not force a random "hey guys remember this thing?". Like Tyson said most people who watched the movies, believe it or not, are not huge Sonic fans like us who can recognize something as simple as the way Sonic's hand is positioned, and I also agree with him that creating NEW good things that could stand on their own and next to the already iconic stuff would be better. Again I do agree more details need to be added for the world to feel like Sonic properly (though they screwed themselves over already by making every character an alien, as they'd need to explain how say Amy or Rogue ended up on earth) but random "look the thing" is not a good way to do it. Also to point to the Mario movie as an "example" of videogame music working for the general audiences, when Shigeru Miyamoto himself stepped in and requested Take On Me for a scene instead of the original soundtrack, is laughable. To pretend that its success was BECAUSE of the music is even more laughable.
I generally thought we were gonna get Super Knuckles in the Knuckles TV show, I was very disappointed when the last episode was just Wade bowling against his dad.
It's mostly the fans online to this franchise that are bad because I met sonic fans in real life and their generally nice people and actually fans of the franchise unlike these "fans" on the internet. Because it's not just sonic, but it's all the franchises that have this as well, when you meet the actual fans they're more nicer than the ones on the internet because the toxicy is small to all franchise.
I’m starting to notice what the public mean about Sonic fans, all i see is complaint and complaints about them reusing assets, reusing locations, nostalgia baiting and all that junk, but then complain when a movie doesn’t do that? They whine and complaing about getting old stuff, but when they get a movie that’s entirely new, they complain that it doesn’t have any old stuff? No wonder Sega doesn’t know half the time, it’s because on launch and even after the dlc, sonic frontiers is phenomenal and a step in the right direction, all though with flaws, but then a year later it’s suddenly the hottest garbage known to man, was worse than forces, and the dlc wasn’t needed they just needed to fix the game?? It’s always saying one thing then changing it up later like not even a little, I get opinions change, but it’s like a complete 180, like not even remotely the same
And don’t even get me started on the references, because what makes you think they want references when the game that did JUST THAT, they laugh at it and go “family guy references” it’s not family guy cut aways, THATS HOW REFRENCING AND BRINGING UP PREVIOUS EVENTS WORK!!
Look I said it so someone else. It’s very clear that a good majority of the fans want these references and nostalgia in the MOVIES not the GAMES. Why? Because we’ve already played the games, we haven’t seen the movies. So when we are forced to play something we’ve already played before (but worse) it gets tiring when it happens for the 3rd time in a row. But the movies are a new medium. We wanna see those moments brought to the big screen. To introduce all those moments we loved to a new generation and just to appeal to the kid inside of us. Heck if a a kid grew up with Generations they’ve already seen Green Hill reused 3 times.
You already know what I’m gonna say… *when are they not mad?* Although I can’t blame them all that much this time. I mean, Sonic is known for some of the BEST video game soundtracks of ALL TIME. It is a but disappointing that they don’t use them often, or at least remix them for the movies. So I get their point. Buuuut at the same time I don’t see it as that big of a deal. Idk.
Yeah. I mean, sure the music isn't as good as the game's music, but I feel like some people are getting a bit too mad about it. Honestly, I'm fine with the music, it's perfectly fine, and I yeah, I wouldn't mind maybe City Escape and Live and Learn, but too many tracks from the game for me would make it feel like another Mario movie.
Sonic movie is a life-action, and Mario movie is just animation, there is big difference. I still prefer Sonic movie, and i'm glad that it is life-action. We already have Sonic animation as Sonic Prime series.
Possible Hot-Take: Tom is the best human character in the entire Sonic franchise. He is actually clever and traps a genius like Dr. Robotnik in his own words, has accepted these creatures into his home, and has tried to impart moral principle about responsibility and other things into Sonic. He even tries to take on machines and people that are far stronger than him because he knows it is the right thing to do and because he will fight for the ones that he loves. He also loves his wife who cited that he had to pick up extra jobs to help her through Veterinary school. Does that mean Tom or the other human characters are always well integrated into these new stories? Heck, no. This is a Sonic franchise, dang it. We want to see more Sonic characters and worlds. BUT, the studio seems to be trying to ease up on the human appearances and make them worth our while more. On top of that, Tom seems to be a really good role model within the story and is a legitimately admirable character compared to other CGI/Hybrid human counterparts like the Smurfs movie, Alvin & CM, and Marsdens own appearances in movies like... Hop? Ew.
bro Sonic fans get mad about the dumbest things ever it's obvious that the Sonic movie series is trying to be it's own thing rather than being just a video game movie and I do like that because it would be kind of impossible to make all the stuff that happens in the Sonic games into CGI and I know some people wanted the movie to be an animated movie like the Mario movie but I really don't care as long as the plot is good the characters are good the story is good then I'll take it it doesn't matter whether it has music from the games or not the move is trying to be it own fucking thing SO LET IT BE IT OWN FUCKING THING GODDAMN IT
Tbh do you know in the shadow the hedgehog game intro where shadow shakes his head trying to ignore the painfull memories from the ark. I would love to see that as a reference in sonic movie 3 idk if many fans will recognize it but i will.
I feel like too many nostalgia references ruin a movie like the mario movie had too many references that took away from the actual movie unlike the Sonic movies that try to actually make a story out of it
Tbh, I agree with the points made here. People here are subconsciously thinking that the only thing that makes an adaptation good is the faithfulness to the source material. But like SonicHub said here, they're not correlated in anyway. Obviously you are allowed to want more representation of the franchise, but that's not valid criticism at all. Just because the Mario movie had way more representation, and it was way more successful doesn't mean that faithfulness = money. It's crazy after being humbled TWICE you still forget that Mario is THE most recognisable character in video game history. Sonic is definitely big on his own, but he can't compare. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the reason either movie was successful in the first place was because of brand recognition. So no, faithfulness is not synonymous with quality. You can criticise the music for being generic. That's valid. But for literally not being ripped straight from the games is silly. Like Tyson said, why not make music that fits with Sonic's music style, instead of just copying and pasting? Doesn't the latter show a lack of care to the franchise, not being bother to even try and replicate what they're known for, and just re-using?
While references are fun, I agree with Tyson on it getting distracting at some point. I watch both the Sonic movies and the Super Mario movie in theaters. When seeing references in Sonic, I got excited for a moment before getting sucked into the story again, while with Mario it felt like it was happening every other second, eventually making it actually kinda annoying to me tbh. Like "Yeah yeah, we get it, this is a reference to the games. Now can we get back to the plot?" To be fair, I've always been more of a Sonic fan in general, partly because Sonic feels like it has more plot compared to Mario. So my opinion might be slightly biased. I do think the making the movie soundtrack more Sonic-y would've made it more memorable, without making it too distracting. Here's hoping Sonic Movie 3 does that, especially since we got the hints to Live & Learn
@@Tari_10_Editz Using the "CGI talking animal meets human character who basically adopts him" formula isn't what I would call original. And who said anything about references? There's a pretty big difference between making a reference and just, you know, making a sonic movie actually take place in a sonic setting.
@@Tari_10_Editz No one asked for your opinion either, Einstein. No one needs your permission to speak. And I like how you argument is litteraly just "I think it works" cool, plenty of people think it doesn't, and plenty of people could say the same about any movie you dislike.
@@cantthinkofausername5848 you're literally the same one from that other comment, complaining like crap, do you want to seek attention Heck, you don't even respect someone's opinion, and I Am outta here
I am pretty nostalgic for Junkie XL. Mainly because of Test Drive 5, NFS High Stakes, and that oddball Elvis Presley remix of “A Little Less Conversation.”
I think there’s a fine line to walk here. I don’t want to hear “Live and Learn” during the Shadow and Sonic team-up because it’s a reference, I want to hear Live and Learn because *it’s the song for that scene.* If a scene is already a reference in itself, adding these elements doesn’t take away from it. If anything, it makes the scene feel RIGHT and AMAZING. Also, the insinuation that most fans aren’t looking for the “they did the thing moment” has an undertone of implying that the games’ music is bad and would detract from the experience of everyone who isn’t searching for Easter eggs. It wouldn’t. Sonic is well known to have an AMAZING soundtrack, it’s like one of the iconic features of the franchise. We want the music to play a part because it *is* a part of Sonic. It’s doesn’t have to be a direct adaption, but borrowing some motifs or using an adaption of a modern Sonic theme in the background of an action scene (where they already tend to put rock and pop music anyways) would be really good and ties into the franchise. Of course, it would be kind of weird to hear the classic songs just ripped directly from the games a lot of the time. Borrowing riffs and motifs is still better than nothing! And original music that feels on-theme isn’t inherently bad a lot of the time. We can have both. Fans are angry that we seemingly can’t have both for some reason.
I agree that the MUSIc should be more faithful to the games. Like, not as much as the Mario movie where almost every track was a reference, but still more than Sonic 2 or Sonic 1. Like, a few nice references would be good.
In my opinion the response in regards to fans coming to see Sonic references in the movie vs people not recognizing it anyways at 6:37 Come on, that's LITERALLY the Michael bay way of writing movies, the disgusting businessman model. "Like, lol who knows what tf Sonic the hedgehog is anymore anyways? Just have some random mf who writes kool moosic do it." Yes, it's true, people come without recognizing the music used because most people watching in theatres are NEW PEOPLE BEING INTRODUCED INTO THE FRANCHISE. Mario movie for example grew the mario brand massively, thusly expanding sales and success everywhere, not just the movies. Detaching your films from your brand is literally STUPID. Why the hell are we normalizing something like this? It's okay when it's just done experimentally, but justifying NOT doing it outright? Nah, Now I see a problem there. All people aren't just here for a movie about a blue hedgehog and just that sometimes, they watch the movie and think "Huh, sonic is so cool, movie was great, hey I'm also a gamer, or a musician, or a kid that likes games or toys, I should go get some sonic merch or see their other products." And guess WHAT they're gonna do? THEY'RE GONNA PLAY SONIC GAMES AND FIND THAT ICONIC AS SH8T SOUNDTRACK! And then they'll look back and see these arguments for Sonic music in the movie and think, "Huh, that's right, I did find the movie's music to be rather generic, why didn't they use these cool themes like Angel Island even in just a few motifs? Would've sounded awesome!" tldr; Movies create fans OF THE GAMES THEMSELVES IN THE LONG RUN YOU IDIT PRODUCERS, if you INTENTIONALLY don't want to sell your game through your film, you got motobugs in your brain. People who watch the movie will explore the brand and then proceed to get confused as to the decisions that were cut. It's like when we see epic cut scenes from films after the film's production, it makes people feel like they missed out on a better product, even if minor, that could be avoided with a simple change. Instead of the producers constantly putting up a wall against their own fanbase and justifying dumb decisions and mistakes, they should accept that the fans are upset because of a very minor yet significant thing to them. Most people in theatres want you to give them a good movie, and through that good movie you get an opportunity to introduce a character and his world. Don't fork it up with corporate excuses because it was cheaper to hire one dude over another. It's not just a movie, it's an ADAPTATION, if you want it to be successful, make it cohesive. It doesn't mean you have to copy paste the whole Sonic 1 OST into orchestral form, no. It means making small references at VERY key crucial moments that are noticeable, relevant, AND well weaved in, like a motif of Live and Learn in a theoretical final battle in Sonic movie 3, would be enough for people to be happy all around. Does it make a major difference? No, but it's a justice to your loyal fans who've 1. Pulled you this far up to this point, and 2. It's a great way to ease in people who are new to the franchise to something the series has always done incredibly well and iconically: MUSIC.
I have to admit that I didn't know much about Sonic prior to the movies. All I knew was that he's a blue hedgehog with superspeed, collecting rings with a round, scientist villain. I knew about Mario a lot more than Sonic. But, when I watched the Mario movie, I didn't understand the plot and some of the references. It was very confusing to me and therefore didn't enjoy it. But with Sonic, I enjoyed it a lot because of the plots and characters. The references were an added bonus for me. While I see why people want more musical references and it wouldn't hurt to add a few more, I don't want to feel like the oddball and not get them because I didn't play the games. The best way to get new fans in on a franchise is to not neglect them of their lack of knowledge of it. Thank you for reading my TED talk.
I got thrilled ever when I last year heard that Johnny Gioeli had confirmed that Live & learn is going be in Sonc 3 because he signed a deal for Paramount to get the rights to it, but would it just totally kill that studio to at least add a few more songs from SA2 into that movie? Like for example, that "E.G.G.M.A.N." character theme and if they reference stage 1 from the Hero Story of that game, then "Escape from the city" and Shadow's original character theme song from SA2 "Throw it all away". It wouldn't kill that studio: So Paramount, at least add in those songs and maybe some more too!!!!!
I’m honestly all for references, but nostalgia shouldn’t blind you from the actual experiences that’ll unfold in a medium whether it’s a movie, video game, or whatever. Yeah Sonic fans should stop complaining for such simple things and enjoy what’s unfolding. Period.
I agree with hess but I also feel like you can do both. Do scenes that "do the thing", and design them in such a way as for "the thing" to fit thematically as an enhancement to the scene for those who recognize the reference rather than something that takes you out of it. But also, do scenes that use entirely new music that's just as good if not better and gets stuck in your head for weeks on end. It doesn't have to be an extreme case of one or the other. When it really comes down to it these are movies that take inspiration from the games, so in that regard they are an adaptation of a pre-existing franchise. They might as well embrace it and make the most out of the situation.
Honestly, both movies had their fair share of references but you can’t have too many references in a live action movie compared to an animated one. Music kinda doesn’t matter because some of the soundtrack of Mario was basically rips from the games at least the Sonic movie tried to sound heroic. (Not saying Mario’s soundtrack was heroic) If there would be songs from the games then which games could we use because there are some references in the music. I wanna watch a movie where they have their own adaptation and add in references too whether it be on screen or music.
The purpose for nostalgic music isn’t just Easter eggs. It could also improve a scene with familiarity. The drowning music would’ve caused anxiety for those who knew what it meant, while still being played with a cinematic feel to not take others out of the moment. However, since the composer didn’t think he could find a way to add nostalgic music without taking away from the moment, I’m happy he didn’t. I’d rather him, than someone who would kill nostalgia with abuse.
A good amount of references DOES make it better(imo), i mean who wouldnt like “live and learn” in a super sonic Vs super Shadow fight? Or “Windmill Hut” in a Zelda Movie…? I mean by adding Classic(from the game) Music does make the fans ‘attracted’ to the movie. Now if the movie fails, that’s not because of the Music….
If the sonic movie flipped shadows identity crisis on its head, and made shadow actually believe he is sonic, and that sonic is a replica, that coyld breathe new life into his arc
I say Yes to everything I liked how the movie continuity was unique but had references at just the right spaces ( look at the knuckles series for instance with ice cap zone being a resort or some other place ) and other refrences
The Mario movie had random songs too, while yes I do like No Sleep Till Brookyln and Mario is FROM BROOKLYN did we really need it? Especially since same year Guardians 3, another Chris Pratt movie (hmmm maybe he likes Beastie Boys lol) also has that song. I also don't get the praise behind the Mario movie, it was ok, but... honestly I think Sonic 2 was still better. It had too many references, which is nice, but then it distracts from the movie, which... didn't have enough meat on its bones. It was too fast paced, so we couldn't take the world in, included too many elements like did we need a Mario Kart segment? Why not save that for later a spin off or future movie? It was doing way too much all at once, and relied too much on famous actors in its cast to push it. Sonic has some, Jim Carrey and James Marsdon in movie 1... that's about it. Ben Shwartz has been rising from the role, no offense to him, but he's not an A list actor. Movie 2 we got the actual actress voicing Tails from the games rather than insert random famous person here which is really cool. We got Idris Elba who is pretty famous... again that's about it, only Idris Elba for movie 2. Movie 3, won't spoil and won't say 100%, but seems like Shadow will have a famous actor too, but that might be it for that cast too. Mario the ENTIRE main cast was famous people, DK, Cranky, Mario, Luigi, Peach kind of sort of, Toad, Bowser, and while some of them did good especially Jack Black as Bowser, Keygan as Toad was good... can't say the same for all of them. People are hating Seth Rogan, 1 because he's everywhere in the most random roles, 2 he's not as funny as he used to be, and 3... kind of a douche irl. Love Chris Pratt, and it wasn't as bad as we thought... but yeah, and with the Garfield movie, he too is everywhere and proving he's not exactly a good voice actor, doesn't have much range. Personally thought Luigi was fine, but can get that some might not like it. Then yes while we got to Mario's magical world unlike Sonic... we didn't have time to take it in. Along with Sonic has made his home plenty of times in the real world, both Adventure games take place in America's Los Angelos, while Unleashed is a world tour, Apotos being Greece, Spagonia Italy, Holoska Alaska, etc. So it's not as out of place for Sonic to interact with real people in a real setting. Meanwhile Sonic movies have also expanded on the lore that the games never did. 3 key moments in movie 2, Knuckles' family and past, what if Robotnik had the power of the master emerald/chaos emeralds for himself rather than machines does he have a super form by extension? and 3 the origins of the chaos emeralds There were so many problems with the Mario movie, but people were won over because of all the references and pretty colors, without stepping back and seeing it without their nostalgia glasses. It wasn't bad, it was ok, good at most, a 6-7/10, but far from being perfect or amazing.
3:20 This... You hit the nail on the head. That's what holding the franchise back. The humans are nice...even funny at times but we are here for the Furries. I didn't need 15 minutes of Bridezilla in the last film. I forgot for a second that I was watching Sonic #2. That's how out touch the scenes were. it felt like somebody changed the channel
There's certain things I really want the movies to incorporate from the games (please more music) but one of the things I like about the movies is that they feel like their own thing. The mario movie has a lot of easer eggs and characters from the games which is all really cool, but it ends up sacrificing a lot for it, like pacing and world building. I just don't think nostalgia should be put before the overall quality of the story and writing (which isn't always the movies strong suit, but when it works it works well)
I mean we got mad at his damn eye color no surprise they’re mad about the movie we’ve been waiting for since 2023 but like we also got mad at literal straight level design for years and it’s still going ever since Forces and we also got mad at Boom Sonic and all of his damn sports tape so like none of this is surprising to me this is the least surprising thing all year lol 💀 We’re not even going in order we skipped over the entirety of Sonic CD and Sonic Adventure 1 how the hell are we going to get Amy, Mecha Sonic, Metal Sonic, Big, Froggy, and Chaos in a movie if we skipped over all of them Big the Cat being the most important obviously how are they going to pull all that off if they haven’t even introduced Amy yet 🙏😭
I’d love to see the movies use at least some motifs for references but I also understand that licensing would be a big issue as the Sonic franchise has had so many artists on their osts and they may feel that if one song was referenced then they would have to reference a lot more than just one or two.
The super mario is honestly one of my favourite movies of all time and hit whit serious nistlaga from my child hood I still mario on my wii (was I ahve a wii it's pretty much a antique at this point and still works perfectly) and Nintendo switch but seeing the movie really brought me back to my child hood growing up whit mario kart like mario kart, super mario bros and Mario galexy 2 (didn't get mario galexy 1 till much later) also I had a 3Ds and I was playing whit it then I went to lay down and the screen tapped off the wall and it broke but I lost the charger for it ages ago and it was out dated but was sad since luigi's mansion is one of favorite mario games so was so happy when I heard it was getting released on Nintendo switch in HD
Of course the Sonic fanbase is mad. It’s always something with them. They’re always going out of their way to find or even make up something to complain about.
I'm gonna be honest I didn't Care if the sonic movies didn't had that much of Refrences maybe some here and there But it didn't ruin my enjoyment for these films And re watching sonic 2 again I think The 2nd film had a Much better story than the first film I think Sonic 2 had a Better story plot than the Mario film but that's just my opnion
The problem with Sonic movies is that Mario movie is a movie that aknowledges it is based on a video game, and it doesn't shy away from that, keeping all the elements people love this franchise for. While Sonic movie franchise only *pretends* to care about Sonic, but doesn't do justice to it
Heres the thing some never really think about and this goes on both sides. 1 the movie itself whlie aimed at a general audience there are more fans than non fans who will see that movie so you need some fan service in the movie not just 1 ost or non at all. 2. Speaking of ost whlie they want it to be original and dynamic i felt almost nothing for the music being played most times because it was boring and thats what kills it for me if your make some fitting music i want it to be so good i put it on my playlist not tune it out. Lastly we don't need a B plot in the movie with the humans anymore sonic and friends can stand on thier own. So that's what i want to see in this 3rd movie little to no b plot and keep it to the main plot.
Where do you stand in this debate? Would you prefer to Sonic Movies to be more “faithful” to the games with gameplay elements, references, Easter eggs, music, etc?
Nostalgia 😂
Ugh
@@Faisalthefistsame it's nostalgia
No Matter what, we should all be happy with what the people have made and the decision made, but I do believe that the game music should be in the movied
I don’t know
i feel like the junkie shit is the most offended the fanbase has ever felt because
1. sonic is well known for the music
2. junkie HATES video game osts
3. junkie loves ai
we had so many red flags but sega doesnt give a shit
Sega isn't the one directly hiring him though, to think that is misguided. Sega handled the rights to Paramount and they are the ones hiring the people for the team, while Sega (of Japan most likely) oversees and either approves or disapproves. Sure you could argue Sega is still responsible for the hiring but it's far more logical to go to Paramount.
Still I don't mind the guy hired for the music. It's a movie so it's not gonna have an amazing OST anyway.
@@DarkkirbyKRPG still sucks because they have people who worked on sonic before working on the movie (crush 40, hyper potion, etc) but theyre not even utilizing them and instead replace them with pop culture songs or generic orchestra songs
all theyve done at best is put some leitmotifs of songs and references in the movies, but considering this is an adaptation of a game that has CITY ESCAPE and LIVE AND LEARN
im just scared theyre just gonna fuck everything up
_> HATES video game osts_
I could never give my trust to people who dislikes game OSTs.
Same for people who skips story dialogue.
point 3 doesn't actually matter in the discussion actually
the first 2 do though
@@homersodysseus
1. ai just sucks
2. this makes junkie look sketchy as fuck
3. THEY LITERALLY HAVE CRUSH 40 AND ALL THE OTHER COMPOSERS WHY ARE THEY USING AI FOR THIS SJDHCHXB
Literally when are the fans never mad 💀
True
Fr like calm the fuck down 😭
They are literally always mad. It's so annoying like what do you want from SEGA?! -From a Sonic fan
In 33 years, Sonic has gone from 15 to 16
and he is still a fucking kid
Me when I saw kingdom valley in the trailer 😮
While I think some criticisms are less constructive and straight-up rude, I think people are valid to be upset about the lack of faithfulness to the games. As annoying as some fans can be, if no one raised their voice we'd still have 1 bombed film with an ugly Sonic.
True, but the movies shouldn't necessarily have to be faithful to the games
@@futureblade6099 I think they should be faithful to a certain degree, but also be able to freely create their own canon, lore, logic and universe. If it deviates too far from what Sonic actually is, it stops being a Sonic adaptation and can end up like the Penders era of Archie Sonic for example (though tbh it had good aspects too).
It's hard to balance but it can be done.
@@DarkkirbyKRPG Fair, I just feel like they had a pretty good balance in the second movie
The issue is where do you draw the line at what determines what is faithful to the games or not? Alot of people like to definitely say what is "True" Sonic but most fans can barely come to a consensus about what that entails or looks like, cause so much of lore and continuity wildly changes depending on which game and what era.
Tone, atmosphere, characterization, are so inconsistent in the games that it's impossible to pick one part and say "This is what Sonic is supposed to be" without making another part of the fanbase mad.
It doesn't help that some of the writers involved currently are taking inspiration from a variety of sources in the franchise that aren't the games, which of course depending what who you ask is either "bringing Sonic back to his former glory" or "straying away from what makes Sonic work".
So I'm afraid it's not as simple as just being "faithful to the games." Although I will agree that the OG design for movie Sonic was bad though, but I'm also one of those people who also believe that whole thing was a publicity stunt to generate controversy and gain attention anyways.
100%!!
Never forget that they used Emerald Hill Zone in the teaser trailer for Sonic 2 and didn’t use it in the movie. They have the ability to do this, yet they choose not to.
You think that's bad? How about that scene where Sonic is carrying an unconcious Tails while running away from an avalanche? That scene, much like the drowning scene, is supposed to be dramatic- however, the tension is completely broken when it's revealed that Tom uses the Green Hill Zone theme as his ringtone. This is incredibly ironic considering Tyson Heese's statement about not having "ooh they did the thing I member" moments. Am I not supposed to be invested in the scene?
and yet they still make good music so you're complaining for nothing
Waaah waaah waaah
No one gives a shit about critics score they've been shown to be so out of touch with consumers.
I'll be real with you bro, critics just don't know what a good movie is nowadays sometimes. Audiences are where it's at.
And also literally the slightest bad thing immediately makes it a bad score like bro it doesn’t mean the end of the world
Most people don't watch movies to review them, we ate just there to enjoy the movie. I don't care if a movie has a simple plot. That doesn't mean it's a boring movie.
Honestly they should add the Video Game music into the movies, it's not just for a reference but because it a bloody awesome soundtrack.
It's not a deal breaker for me but it would be nice to have.
The japanese version of Sonic X (Let's all say it. Screw 4kids) had live Live and Learn in the finale of the fight against the Finalhazard.
And it was so much better than the versions with the more generic music.
Sonic X Dub is horrible. They took all the 'art' out of it and just pushed it as a simple kids cartoon.
Sonic X had just as much passion as with the live action movies.
Tbh it wasn't totally 4Kids' fault that Live & learn wasn't in the Sonic X English dub. They didn't stupidly remove it on purpose, the real reason why it was replaced in that Finalhazard scene with generic music is because something prevented that anime dubbing studio from being allowed to get the rights to that banger song.
@@Hedgie3 Bruh, ive watched the sub in its entirety and its not just that song.
The whole background music from 4kids ruines the ambience of a lot of scenes. The music also never shuts up in the dub while the sub has a good balance in using BGM and having silent moments.
The music themes in the sub are also more memorable.
Its absolutely 4Kids fault🤣🤣🤣
@@SAsaiyajin The lack of that 1 song isn't their fault, but yeah that the rest of the soundtrack being changed in an immature way is thieir fault. I understand how much better handled the music in the sub is because I've been watching a version of Sonic X on Blu-ray made by Discotek that is a lot more faithful to the sub version and has English subtitles too so that I can read what the characters are saying.
@@Hedgie3 Than they shouldve done their best, they literally dubbed Pokémon as well and they didnt change the bgm as you constantly hear covers from the videogame music. They were also less strict with the movies as well when it came to censoring.
So why with Pokémon but not with Sonic X which also rode the wave of Pokémon (hence why they added Chris Thorndyke).
So i get you but no i still blame them.
The problem with the Mario movie was that it was so focused on references that it didn’t have much of a story, something that Tyson hesse acknowledged when he said that if fans were so concerned with references, theyd be taken out of a scene. Since the average movie goer might not get the references, they could be weirded out by a movie going, “DO YOU GET IT!? WE DID THE THING!”
I thought the Mario movie was just fine. The plot was thin, but it was a silly adventure comedy that didn't need to be anything more than that. It felt like a Mario story and it was fun. My only gripe with it is the usual "let voice actors do the roles" complaint and their being more determined with making Peach a girlboss than with making her funny.
I think the movie was ok. It's not really the spectacle I thought it would be when I heard people praising it so much, but they were longtime fans, so of course they loved it so much. It has many references and easter eggs that they can understand. But from a storytelling perspective, it's nothing special
@@yay29823 And that's just it. I don't think it was meant to be. It's a goofy cartoon adventure and that's what Super Mario Bros. is at heart.
@@PlayStonkers That's true, I'm just saying that the film as great as what it was supposed to be, but it's not a model that should be followed by other movies, if those movies want to make exciting stories. I heard that the Sonic Movies want to expand the lore and be epic, so I don't think they should follow the example of the Mario Movie
neither do the mario games themselves. not every movie has to be a thought provoking piece or else every horror movie would be bad
The fans are always mad tho-
As in pissed off
yeah but the movie ar good still
Fax tho
Especially on Twitter.
wdym though no ones mad the non sonic fans are mad lol
I hate people on Twitter they don't know how to stfu
What this video said was very well said. For both Sonic movies and the Mario movie, I feel like there was more references from the games, while Sonic doesn’t have a lot. In the drowning part of the second movie, I couldn’t really hear the drowning theme. I know people have their own opinions on why they think the Sonic or Mario movie is better. At least Sonic 3 sounds like it’ll have the most references.
In my opinion, the Sonic movies do references just fine. Not only are they sparse, but each reference is given more importance. For example, Jojo giving Sonic his iconic shoes to replace his old tattered pair. We get to see sonic's iconic shoes through a heartwarming scene. Another is Sonic's inability to swim first being shown in a fishing scene, then used as a way to make Sonic's journey across the ocean to stop robotnik and knuckles all the more impactful. Also, Sonic willingly sinking himself deep into the water to save knuckles. You see? The sonic movies may not have that many references, but the ones they do have are given depth and importence.
Meanwhile the Mario movie (which does have a few good references) just shoves an endless amount of references in your face for the sake of showing them, rarely ever implementing them in a clever way or giving them more importence. I still love the Mario movie, but in my opinion, Sonic handles references WAY better.
I agree, the things that you mentioned in that comment all make a good amount of sense about those 2 videogame adaption movies.
What about the detective Pikachu movie and how they handle the references from the pokemon franchise?
@Mr.Feather130 hm, good question. I don't remember too much from detective pikachu since I watched it a LONG time ago,. Let me think...
Honestly, I think detective pikachu handles references pretty well. The interrogation .scene with Mr Mime showed off its personality brilliantly while showing off Tim's knowledge of pokemon. Mewtwo's lore was explored, and he was a key character to the plot. Pikachu learning how to use volt tackle and sending mind controlled mewtwo through a building was a badass and impactful scene; especially since pikachu couldn't use moves for most of the movie. Ditto was a pretty good antagonist (disguising itself as the rhime city mayor and taking his place, disguising as a person to spy on tim and pikachu, transforming into multiple different pokemon to fight Tim). The substance that makes pokemon go psycho mode could be a reference to an obscure item in the games called the berserk gene that raises attack and special attack but causes confusion (though it could just be a reference to the detective pikachu game).
There's probably a lot more references in detective pikachu that are more than just cameos, but my memory on it is blurry. Honestly, Sonic is credited as being the first GOOD video game movie in history, but I think that title should go to Detective Pikachu.
@@drewbydoo8945 yeah since The Detective Pikachu movie is a savior to video game movies with how successful it is
@Mr.Feather130 what's funny is, back when detective pikachu released--from what I remember--everyone was saying it's a good movie. Nowadays, people either don't talk about it, say it was ok, and a few even said it was bad (I'm looking at you Auragaurdian xD). In my opinion, it was a great and underrated movie.
They get mad at the way a toy looks of course they get mad at sonic movies
Edit: thank you for 170 likes I’ve never gotten more than 5
loool
they dont but aight
@@cashbrady4074 they might not get mad at a toy but it’s an example that they simply get mad at anything they see just because one tiny detail that most people don’t notice and trust me I’ve seen sonic fans mad at toys
@@VicFettOfficial thats only some and nah thats mostly for people ruining sonic
@@cashbrady4074 they do get angry at toys sometimes.. remember early sonic 1 toys.. the UGLYY SONICC
Listen, I known junkie XL for a while and he created amazing musical Masterpieces in amazing movies like Zack Snyder's Justice League, The Matrix trilogy, Alita Battle Angel and Amazing Spider-Man 2 now I know that his musical pieces in the Sonic Movies were not faithfully adapted from the source material but now that the Mario Movie is out I really hope that Tom AKA Junkie XL will take the source material more seriously I also heard that the guy who wrote dreams of an absolution is involved in the music department in Sonic 3 So I have faith that this will go well!
Going off a interview with JunkieXL done after Movie 1 did it sound like he only ever even considered Megadrive/Genesis era music (as he was almost exclusively talking about it in the context of that systems sound chip) so I have very little hope here my self.
People forget that Junkie wanted to have game motifs as far back as the first movie, but was told he couldn't. The most he got was the little nods to Green Hill. Tho he did incorporate some of SatAM and AoSTH motifs in both Sonic 1 and Sonic 2.
@@rynobehnke8289Mind posting that interview? Cuz everything I seen out of his mouth is the direct opposite.
@@Chaogod1233 I'll try to send you a link in a second post but can't promise anything as TH-cam very often blocks all my comments with links in them.
At any rate did he always talk about it as "Gamey" music and how "tom and Jerry always sounded 100 times more fitting" and how "Game music isn't bombastic enough for a movie" all of which make really no sense if he also accounts for the post 1998 games all of which have big movie like bombastic and emotional event music.
I'm just gonna say it, sonic shouldn't follow in marios direction. The Mario movie was just references the movie, and while it had video game music, it also had a bunch of basic 80s music. The sonic movies have a perfectly fine amount of references
that’s literally the reason why people didn’t like the mario movie that much, they said it was just for old mario fans with a reference every 2 seconds
I do think that the music issue is something that I have a problem with. But the amount of references in the movies I’m fine with.
True
But the actual quality of the movie was trash
@@7tdgkg6 Of the Sonic movies? Cap.
As a sonic fan, I apologize for the people who won’t hush.
Just enjoy the movies and don’t worry whether it relates to the games 100%.
it’s NOT the games and the games still exist you can come back to it later 👍🏻👍🏻
Although I understand the frustration from other fans but it’s fine if the movies don’t want to ALWAYS reference the games because it is it’s own thing. It can still be enjoyable without too many Easter eggs and they are pleasant when they come along because they aren’t as plentiful. 😊
The movie is making its own identity.
-a longtime sonic fan ranting
I could probably live without a few easter eggs as long as they don't try to cram down that spew of celebrity pop culture nonsense, and as long as they follow the MAIN plot faithfully enough to be called a proper adaptation.
@@Boomblox5896 totally agree with you there 👍🏻
@@MakaYTGOOFYGOOBERIt’s just, I don’t see this stuff as Easter eggs.
Like, referencing Dr Robotnik’s Mean Bean Machine in the form of a Coffee Shop is an Easter egg.
But like, okay imagine in the next movie we have the City Escape scene. Sonic’s evading G.U.N, he’s boarding and grinding across rails and streets. And instead of playing Escape From The City they’re playing… Beat It by Michael Jackson.
Cause that’s something that isn’t brought up, sure it would be nice to have new tracks. But will that happen? I don’t think so. It always seems to be an 80’s song. Heck even the Mario Movie had Take On Me for some reason.
It just doesn’t seem like an Easter egg, it just feels like what’s supposed to be playing.
@@isitjustin4459 good point, I see where you’re coming from and I also really hope they have elements from the more iconic songs or the entire song itself for those types of things
ok the main thing im worried about is the fact theyre going to rip out the core themes of sa2 which really hold a pivotal part of sonic and the values surrounding him
i dont think music would affect that much (i too think that it doesnt matter if there's references or not / how many there are, the music should be memoriable for a sonic movie as sonic as a franchise has had constant bangers and I THINK they should cook for their biggest feature film.. that just me tho) i am praying they keep the parts which really moved me within it. maybe even make it *better* ... they have the capability being in a whole new media + new technology and money . we want this to be good
but i also agree ! it doesnt have to be packed with references, i rather it give us new material for this iteration... just overall, i think the anti-corrupt / anti-government and existentialism within the story + the horrors of GUN and humanity must be shown for what they are. i know they have the resources to really make this worthwhile
+ it's very interesting seeing them adapt to film as a filmmaker myself.. im excited but also worried for what lies ahead
Sonic Fans Need To Live And Learn!
A balance can be reached, having leitmotifs from the games mixed with a more dynamic film score is literally the best of both worlds.
I honestly doubt the movie will even have anything resembling the Finalhazard fight but if it did it would be so cool to have a musical nod to Live and Learn, but that doesn't mean straight up using the og song in place of a film score.
Here's my question. Can anyone off the top of their head name a song from either movie that was an original song that they liked and actually listen to?
I am not asking for a name of the song just the scene. And that's just it doubt anyone can without needing to look it up. It's all forgettable generic music.
@@Chaogod1233 That's how most movie/show scores are, it doesn't mean it's bad. Background music for films isn't meant to be short, catchy and looped indifinitely like most game music is, it's meant to just enhance the feelings of scenes (think how horror or suspense film scenes use violins to give a feeling of dread and anticipation).
Lets be fair here. Sonic movie is way other kind of movie than mario movie. The only reason mario movie was so popular is because the mario fan base are pretty crazy, and go insane just hearing his name. Sonic actually has a plot along with iconic momments such as super sonic transformations. Mario plot is almost as light as sonic superstars's plot. It litterally feels like watching a gameplay of mario 3d world and odyssey on the big screen. Instead of a good plot they went with a full burst of nostalgia. If we take the mario movie plot but put completely other characters to it, it would hardly get a 40% rating. Same thing with the video games too. Lets take Mario oddysey and sonic frontiers. We all know that frontiers plot is way better than the one in odyssey. Anyway my point is we should be gratful with what we have instead of always comparing with mario, because its not worth it.
They still would have been way better fully animated if you ask me.
I prefer the Mario movie because I'm so fatigued of live action adaptation's.
@Chadzilla_the_Keyblade_welder it's not that bad. Seeing Sonic and his friends interacting in the real world is still pretty fun to see.
@@YoyoGame34 I'm not saying the movies are bad, I just don't like that they're live action.
I feel that they would be way more fun to watch if they where animated. And seeing Sonic characters in the real world like how the Alivn and the chipmucks movie's were is so visually uninteresting to me.
And the Knuckles show only made me feel this way even more.
@@Chadzilla_the_Keyblade_welder I guess that's just your opinion. Personally, I don't think the movies would have been this successful if they weren't live action. It's just 2 different opinions, really.
@@YoyoGame34 Spiderverse, Puss in boots 2 and TMNT Mutant mayhem were pretty successful. As well as the Mario movie.
I feel that the Sonic movie's would have still done well anyway because it's a recognizable IP.
Sonic is just as recognizable as Mario.
Sonic fans need to realize that the Sonic movies are primary for the general movie audience. The amount of references and music will be limited to only fit in when it is absolutely necessary. Considering the storyline I am sure there will be a lot of references and Sonic music in Sonic The Hedgehog 3.
We realize that it's just fucking lame.
If Live and Learn is there, I'm Sold.
Edit:
(Insert Like celebration on how they never reached this milestone)
And I’ll be even more sold, if it’s actually performed by Crush 40 themselves.
This guy gets it!
Just you wait till it turns out its just like with Emerald Hill only in the Trailers and not in the movie itself.
@@rynobehnke8289 And if it actually does play in the movie then your comment will definitely not age well. At this point it's the most obvious that it will play in the movie because the movie is taking inspiration from sonic adventure 2, so it not not having live and learn in it would not make sense.
@@alexanderlouden See I have next to no trust into the music lead of the movies so while I would love to be proven wrong would I not get my hopes up to much. Even if its in it might it not even be plot relevant and instead be treated like Green Hill theme was in Movie 2.
The Mario movie is not the same though. It doesn't have real people, it's not set in the real world. Sure, it has representations of real world locations, but still. Please, as a Sonic fan, I beg the other Sonic fans to just shut up and stop desperately digging to find an excuse to complain about something.
Yet just because the movies are different base on the type of film they are doesn’t change the fact both movies are based on video games and that shouldn’t be a discouraging issue it should in fact encourage music from the games
Thank you!
People are allowed to feel however they want about these movies. I don't like that the Sonic movies are set in the real world with all these new boring human characters instead of actual Sonic characters
How is that even an argument since when does
"Real People" Equate to "Needs to have generic Hollywood music that is all just a big rip-off of "The Planets" anyway"?
Like we talk music here not character design.
Never mind that its inherently ridicules as Sonic 1 and 2 were composed as movie OST's by there composer and games since adventure always have a big action movie setup with event music specifically written for the same purpose as they are for a movie.
And that doesn't even address that all of these live action flicks and up using licensed music anyway which is entirely unaltered and as such almost never fitting unless a scene was directed specifically for it. This is especially bad when there choice for licensed music even than could be more inline with the games Like the Snowboard segment in Movie 2 goes really well with "The Jetzons" "Hard times".
And even ignoring all of that is that still no excuse for the generic performance for the Sonic Movies which gets criticizes even by JunkXL's own fans for being below his usual work.
So even if we just want to have a fully original OST for the movies is what we current have got just under performing.
@squirtle7G1 the best games had humans in it.
Can we talk about how fast paced and childish the mario movie is? Jeez, at least some older audiences can enjoy the sonic movies.
I'ts mario, that's literally the target audience, not adults, it's totally okay to like it or sonic, i know i do, but these things are made for children, as they should, let them enjoy it as you did when you where little.
@@H_umza true especially the sonic movies have better storytelling than the super Mario bros movie
@@meyelejuega3602 im saying they couldve gotten a bit more emotional towards the scenes where it felt needed in the Mario movie and ofc im not saying make it mature, but I hate when people compare the Mario & Sonic movies, they are in 2 different leagues of quality
"Childish"? My guy, the sonic movies have literal fart jokes in them.
Imean ofcourse they are still targeted for kids, but atleast the Sonic movies arent fully bland as the mario movie when it comes to the plot and can take itself a bit more seriously where its deemed appropriate for a more emotional scene in a way that older audiences can still enjoy them.
Sonic fans: Sega is too reliant on nostalgia and references!
Also the Sonic fans: there’s not enough nostalgia and references in the movies!
God these people can never be satisfied, if you ask me Mario was too reliant on references and nostalgia, I think the Sonic films should stand on their own without a bunch of game references so that people who don’t play the games can enjoy it too
These are obviously different people though?
Look there is a big difference.
Sega is too reliant on nostalgia and references in the GAMES while There aren’t enough references and nostalgia in the MOVIES.
If the Sonic movie references Green Hill Zone yea that makes sense. It’s the beginning of this medium of Sonic content. Nobody would be tired of seeing it used in the movies.
But we’ve been begging Sega to make new original stages for the games for YEARS and they just keep cramming the same three stages down our throats.
There is a big difference.
Sure Theres Barely any sonic Music in the movies but we are getting live and Learn, So can Fans Calm down
We really got Live and Learn? Then I'm good.
Yes it's confirmed crush 40 said so@@Ultima_Z
@@asymetricalart Yay!
We only know they licensed it that is no guaranty that they gonna put it into the movie.
Movie 2 also licensed Emerald Hill yet only used it in the trailer.
And mind you unless I was misinformed is JunkieXL also the same guy that decided to cut the Godzilla theme from Godzilla vs King Kong so him cutting iconic music peaces in favor of more of his own generic Hollywood Music certainly has precedence outside of Sonic.
@@asymetricalart Where did they say that? I really want to know where you get this information.
Wow! Sonic fans getting mad? Like I’ve never seen that before 😂
Yes. This is about sonic frontiers. Thanks youtube. I would've never knew.
Ima be honest they don't need video game music but they do need to spice up the ost by adding little rifts of the video game music in the 3rd movie
In the next few years video game movies will adopt the game music to massive success, most notably with the Zelda movie, I'll put cash on that. But sadly Sonic 3 came too early in the era. Funny that modern videogames started with Sonic and Mario, and modern videogame movies started with... Sonic and Mario
I’m not really mad, I’m just happy that live and learn is in the movie
Ain’t no way Sonichub uses CapCut auto captions
Maybe he didn’t have the time for captions
LMAOOO bro my premiere pro (which I pay a lot for) has been broken for over a month I literally cant use it anymore so I had to use capcut. To be fair though, its lowkey fire.
@@SonicHubYT lol
It's one of these moments when you must tell the fans to stop acting like dorks. The Mario movie was a curiosity aimed at normie parents and their babies; nobody genuinely say this movie is amazing and it's fine that movies for 5 years old exist but at some point we must stop comparing Mario to Sonic in any kind of situations. I highly doubt you can conclude that the Sonic movies have something to learn from the Mario movie. The audience isn't even the same. Mario was for small children and Sonic is obviously for an older audience; it tries to be a real thing. It's like these lame feedbacks come from the crowd who liked the meta era. The spirit is way more important than the references.
Man, if the next sonic movie could be the unleashed storyline that would be amazing. But I would also hope that they could build out the little sonic universe in order to give us sonic heroes.
If amy isn’t in it someone will be filling the role of convincing shadow at the end for sure
@@SonicHubYT definitely not Chris, thank god
@@hyper-2308 chris unironically worked better than Amy, more parallels to Maria. giving it to someone like jojo seems like the right call
Just realised that this is the same person that composed the last two monsterverse movies
Am I the only one who finds it funny that Sonic fans won't stop whining about how Frontiers is always referencing the past games but those same people are complaining that the movies don't have enough references in them IDK maybe just because I hold a grudge against the community for the absolute BS topics the complain about
Maybe they want the movies to be the only thing that has references from previous games , while new games don't
@@owlomar2007 I guess but every time characters act like games never happened people complain that quote " it feels like they learned nothing " like tails every time he acts like a coward people always say it's like he learned nothing from the adventure games
Because the fanbase is diverse quote-unquote
I'm not asking for the Green Hill Zone theme or Marble Hill Zone theme. I'm asking more for Live and Learn, Undefeatable, Believe in Myself, etc.
You mean undefeatable
@@Tari_10_Editz Yeah my bad.
@@retrobat1631 it's alright
undefeatable is too new. Which version of believe in myself? (And why?) I want It Doesn't Matter
I think that you kinda underestimate how many people know Sonic music when they hear it, not even just the drowning theme. Putting in more like that WILL make a good movie better, and even a bad movie slightly better. Sure, they can have original tracks, but if none of them feel like Sonic music, it just loses its touch (basically, original tracks with the same feeling as the game tracks can work, but they should also put in said game tracks). (Reposting from my own reply to a different comment)
Asking for the movie soundtrack to be "they did the thing" is the exact attitude that got us stuck in Green Hill limbo since freaking 2011, which we haven't escaped to this day as seen with Sonic x Shadow Gens. Yes, the movies do need more aspects from the games, but they also need to be organically added into them, not force a random "hey guys remember this thing?". Like Tyson said most people who watched the movies, believe it or not, are not huge Sonic fans like us who can recognize something as simple as the way Sonic's hand is positioned, and I also agree with him that creating NEW good things that could stand on their own and next to the already iconic stuff would be better. Again I do agree more details need to be added for the world to feel like Sonic properly (though they screwed themselves over already by making every character an alien, as they'd need to explain how say Amy or Rogue ended up on earth) but random "look the thing" is not a good way to do it.
Also to point to the Mario movie as an "example" of videogame music working for the general audiences, when Shigeru Miyamoto himself stepped in and requested Take On Me for a scene instead of the original soundtrack, is laughable. To pretend that its success was BECAUSE of the music is even more laughable.
I generally thought we were gonna get Super Knuckles in the Knuckles TV show, I was very disappointed when the last episode was just Wade bowling against his dad.
LETS GO SONIC MOVIE 3
Reasons why sonic fans like sonic
1. They can hate it
Doesn't apply to me, and I actually like Sonic 1
@@ironkoenigman3258 I know it doesn’t apply to the majority of the sonic fanbase I’m just making a joke
It's mostly the fans online to this franchise that are bad because I met sonic fans in real life and their generally nice people and actually fans of the franchise unlike these "fans" on the internet. Because it's not just sonic, but it's all the franchises that have this as well, when you meet the actual fans they're more nicer than the ones on the internet because the toxicy is small to all franchise.
Stopping kids from saying first.
U didn't bro💀💀
@@ayobruh_5 I don't care. At least I tried.
@@IDKLOOLOLOLOOLrespect
@@IDKLOOLOLOLOOL chill out bro
@@ayobruh_5 but he is-
SONIC MOVIE 3!!!!!!
I’m starting to notice what the public mean about Sonic fans, all i see is complaint and complaints about them reusing assets, reusing locations, nostalgia baiting and all that junk, but then complain when a movie doesn’t do that? They whine and complaing about getting old stuff, but when they get a movie that’s entirely new, they complain that it doesn’t have any old stuff? No wonder Sega doesn’t know half the time, it’s because on launch and even after the dlc, sonic frontiers is phenomenal and a step in the right direction, all though with flaws, but then a year later it’s suddenly the hottest garbage known to man, was worse than forces, and the dlc wasn’t needed they just needed to fix the game?? It’s always saying one thing then changing it up later like not even a little, I get opinions change, but it’s like a complete 180, like not even remotely the same
And don’t even get me started on the references, because what makes you think they want references when the game that did JUST THAT, they laugh at it and go “family guy references” it’s not family guy cut aways, THATS HOW REFRENCING AND BRINGING UP PREVIOUS EVENTS WORK!!
Wait people actually said frontiers is worse than forces?
Oh, let them be. They always complain shit. Sonic fans are just babies nerds.
Look I said it so someone else.
It’s very clear that a good majority of the fans want these references and nostalgia in the MOVIES not the GAMES.
Why? Because we’ve already played the games, we haven’t seen the movies.
So when we are forced to play something we’ve already played before (but worse) it gets tiring when it happens for the 3rd time in a row.
But the movies are a new medium. We wanna see those moments brought to the big screen. To introduce all those moments we loved to a new generation and just to appeal to the kid inside of us. Heck if a a kid grew up with Generations they’ve already seen Green Hill reused 3 times.
You already know what I’m gonna say…
*when are they not mad?*
Although I can’t blame them all that much this time. I mean, Sonic is known for some of the BEST video game soundtracks of ALL TIME. It is a but disappointing that they don’t use them often, or at least remix them for the movies. So I get their point.
Buuuut at the same time I don’t see it as that big of a deal. Idk.
Yeah. I mean, sure the music isn't as good as the game's music, but I feel like some people are getting a bit too mad about it. Honestly, I'm fine with the music, it's perfectly fine, and I yeah, I wouldn't mind maybe City Escape and Live and Learn, but too many tracks from the game for me would make it feel like another Mario movie.
Sonic movie is a life-action, and Mario movie is just animation, there is big difference. I still prefer Sonic movie, and i'm glad that it is life-action. We already have Sonic animation as Sonic Prime series.
We should also take into consideration that Idris Elba said this is the one for fans. The one with the Easter Eggs. So we'll wait and see
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 3!!!
Possible Hot-Take: Tom is the best human character in the entire Sonic franchise. He is actually clever and traps a genius like Dr. Robotnik in his own words, has accepted these creatures into his home, and has tried to impart moral principle about responsibility and other things into Sonic. He even tries to take on machines and people that are far stronger than him because he knows it is the right thing to do and because he will fight for the ones that he loves. He also loves his wife who cited that he had to pick up extra jobs to help her through Veterinary school.
Does that mean Tom or the other human characters are always well integrated into these new stories? Heck, no. This is a Sonic franchise, dang it. We want to see more Sonic characters and worlds. BUT, the studio seems to be trying to ease up on the human appearances and make them worth our while more. On top of that, Tom seems to be a really good role model within the story and is a legitimately admirable character compared to other CGI/Hybrid human counterparts like the Smurfs movie, Alvin & CM, and Marsdens own appearances in movies like... Hop? Ew.
I just want Crush 40 songs in the film/films
This is sad fans are mad at anything that relates to Sonic.
I bet if Knuckles show was more of a "Knuckles" show , they would have still tried to find a reason to hate it
I'm so glad that mario fans aren't like this problem.
The problem with the Sonic movies isn't the lack of references or music, it's that Sonic likes cops.
"remember kids, only generalize people you don't like. we are the good side, not at all hypocritical."
Sonic SatAm. Do I even have to say anything else?
bro Sonic fans get mad about the dumbest things ever it's obvious that the Sonic movie series is trying to be it's own thing rather than being just a video game movie and I do like that because it would be kind of impossible to make all the stuff that happens in the Sonic games into CGI and I know some people wanted the movie to be an animated movie like the Mario movie but I really don't care as long as the plot is good the characters are good the story is good then I'll take it it doesn't matter whether it has music from the games or not the move is trying to be it own fucking thing SO LET IT BE IT OWN FUCKING THING GODDAMN IT
Tbh do you know in the shadow the hedgehog game intro where shadow shakes his head trying to ignore the painfull memories from the ark. I would love to see that as a reference in sonic movie 3 idk if many fans will recognize it but i will.
I feel like too many nostalgia references ruin a movie like the mario movie had too many references that took away from the actual movie unlike the Sonic movies that try to actually make a story out of it
I am bit disappointed that they didnt adapt SA1 for the 3rd movie and SA2 for a fourth movie.
But hey lets see where it goes.
Tbh, I agree with the points made here. People here are subconsciously thinking that the only thing that makes an adaptation good is the faithfulness to the source material. But like SonicHub said here, they're not correlated in anyway. Obviously you are allowed to want more representation of the franchise, but that's not valid criticism at all. Just because the Mario movie had way more representation, and it was way more successful doesn't mean that faithfulness = money. It's crazy after being humbled TWICE you still forget that Mario is THE most recognisable character in video game history. Sonic is definitely big on his own, but he can't compare. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the reason either movie was successful in the first place was because of brand recognition. So no, faithfulness is not synonymous with quality. You can criticise the music for being generic. That's valid. But for literally not being ripped straight from the games is silly. Like Tyson said, why not make music that fits with Sonic's music style, instead of just copying and pasting? Doesn't the latter show a lack of care to the franchise, not being bother to even try and replicate what they're known for, and just re-using?
While references are fun, I agree with Tyson on it getting distracting at some point. I watch both the Sonic movies and the Super Mario movie in theaters. When seeing references in Sonic, I got excited for a moment before getting sucked into the story again, while with Mario it felt like it was happening every other second, eventually making it actually kinda annoying to me tbh. Like "Yeah yeah, we get it, this is a reference to the games. Now can we get back to the plot?" To be fair, I've always been more of a Sonic fan in general, partly because Sonic feels like it has more plot compared to Mario. So my opinion might be slightly biased.
I do think the making the movie soundtrack more Sonic-y would've made it more memorable, without making it too distracting. Here's hoping Sonic Movie 3 does that, especially since we got the hints to Live & Learn
3:05 So people are mad because the movie is trying to be original
Pretty much, originality beats References now that I think about it
@@Tari_10_Editz Using the "CGI talking animal meets human character who basically adopts him" formula isn't what I would call original.
And who said anything about references? There's a pretty big difference between making a reference and just, you know, making a sonic movie actually take place in a sonic setting.
@@cantthinkofausername5848 at least it worked
And who asked for your opinion, nobody, it's a good movie, get over it
@@Tari_10_Editz No one asked for your opinion either, Einstein. No one needs your permission to speak.
And I like how you argument is litteraly just "I think it works" cool, plenty of people think it doesn't, and plenty of people could say the same about any movie you dislike.
@@cantthinkofausername5848 you're literally the same one from that other comment, complaining like crap, do you want to seek attention
Heck, you don't even respect someone's opinion, and I Am outta here
9:58 I can't believe Google said "The Chris Pratt-led movie" 😂😂😂
When he said the definition of Nostalgia I already knew what he was gonna talk about.
I am pretty nostalgic for Junkie XL. Mainly because of Test Drive 5, NFS High Stakes, and that oddball Elvis Presley remix of “A Little Less Conversation.”
I think there’s a fine line to walk here. I don’t want to hear “Live and Learn” during the Shadow and Sonic team-up because it’s a reference, I want to hear Live and Learn because *it’s the song for that scene.* If a scene is already a reference in itself, adding these elements doesn’t take away from it. If anything, it makes the scene feel RIGHT and AMAZING.
Also, the insinuation that most fans aren’t looking for the “they did the thing moment” has an undertone of implying that the games’ music is bad and would detract from the experience of everyone who isn’t searching for Easter eggs. It wouldn’t. Sonic is well known to have an AMAZING soundtrack, it’s like one of the iconic features of the franchise. We want the music to play a part because it *is* a part of Sonic. It’s doesn’t have to be a direct adaption, but borrowing some motifs or using an adaption of a modern Sonic theme in the background of an action scene (where they already tend to put rock and pop music anyways) would be really good and ties into the franchise.
Of course, it would be kind of weird to hear the classic songs just ripped directly from the games a lot of the time. Borrowing riffs and motifs is still better than nothing! And original music that feels on-theme isn’t inherently bad a lot of the time. We can have both. Fans are angry that we seemingly can’t have both for some reason.
No way they could not fit Flying Battery Zone theme into a fast-paced action scene.
I agree that the MUSIc should be more faithful to the games. Like, not as much as the Mario movie where almost every track was a reference, but still more than Sonic 2 or Sonic 1. Like, a few nice references would be good.
In my opinion the response in regards to fans coming to see Sonic references in the movie vs people not recognizing it anyways at 6:37
Come on, that's LITERALLY the Michael bay way of writing movies, the disgusting businessman model. "Like, lol who knows what tf Sonic the hedgehog is anymore anyways? Just have some random mf who writes kool moosic do it."
Yes, it's true, people come without recognizing the music used because most people watching in theatres are NEW PEOPLE BEING INTRODUCED INTO THE FRANCHISE. Mario movie for example grew the mario brand massively, thusly expanding sales and success everywhere, not just the movies.
Detaching your films from your brand is literally STUPID. Why the hell are we normalizing something like this? It's okay when it's just done experimentally, but justifying NOT doing it outright? Nah, Now I see a problem there.
All people aren't just here for a movie about a blue hedgehog and just that sometimes, they watch the movie and think "Huh, sonic is so cool, movie was great, hey I'm also a gamer, or a musician, or a kid that likes games or toys, I should go get some sonic merch or see their other products." And guess WHAT they're gonna do? THEY'RE GONNA PLAY SONIC GAMES AND FIND THAT ICONIC AS SH8T SOUNDTRACK!
And then they'll look back and see these arguments for Sonic music in the movie and think, "Huh, that's right, I did find the movie's music to be rather generic, why didn't they use these cool themes like Angel Island even in just a few motifs? Would've sounded awesome!"
tldr; Movies create fans OF THE GAMES THEMSELVES IN THE LONG RUN YOU IDIT PRODUCERS, if you INTENTIONALLY don't want to sell your game through your film, you got motobugs in your brain.
People who watch the movie will explore the brand and then proceed to get confused as to the decisions that were cut. It's like when we see epic cut scenes from films after the film's production, it makes people feel like they missed out on a better product, even if minor, that could be avoided with a simple change.
Instead of the producers constantly putting up a wall against their own fanbase and justifying dumb decisions and mistakes, they should accept that the fans are upset because of a very minor yet significant thing to them. Most people in theatres want you to give them a good movie, and through that good movie you get an opportunity to introduce a character and his world. Don't fork it up with corporate excuses because it was cheaper to hire one dude over another.
It's not just a movie, it's an ADAPTATION, if you want it to be successful, make it cohesive. It doesn't mean you have to copy paste the whole Sonic 1 OST into orchestral form, no. It means making small references at VERY key crucial moments that are noticeable, relevant, AND well weaved in, like a motif of Live and Learn in a theoretical final battle in Sonic movie 3, would be enough for people to be happy all around. Does it make a major difference? No, but it's a justice to your loyal fans who've 1. Pulled you this far up to this point, and 2. It's a great way to ease in people who are new to the franchise to something the series has always done incredibly well and iconically: MUSIC.
I have to admit that I didn't know much about Sonic prior to the movies. All I knew was that he's a blue hedgehog with superspeed, collecting rings with a round, scientist villain. I knew about Mario a lot more than Sonic. But, when I watched the Mario movie, I didn't understand the plot and some of the references. It was very confusing to me and therefore didn't enjoy it. But with Sonic, I enjoyed it a lot because of the plots and characters. The references were an added bonus for me. While I see why people want more musical references and it wouldn't hurt to add a few more, I don't want to feel like the oddball and not get them because I didn't play the games. The best way to get new fans in on a franchise is to not neglect them of their lack of knowledge of it.
Thank you for reading my TED talk.
I got thrilled ever when I last year heard that Johnny Gioeli had confirmed that Live & learn is going be in Sonc 3 because he signed a deal for Paramount to get the rights to it, but would it just totally kill that studio to at least add a few more songs from SA2 into that movie? Like for example, that "E.G.G.M.A.N." character theme and if they reference stage 1 from the Hero Story of that game, then "Escape from the city" and Shadow's original character theme song from SA2 "Throw it all away".
It wouldn't kill that studio: So Paramount, at least add in those songs and maybe some more too!!!!!
“I am a Sonic fan. Therefore, I am angry enough to qualify to be DOOM Guy.”
-The entire Sonic fandom
Once you said “twitter” I immediately thought “oh of course it’s twitter 🙄🤦♀️”
i swear these fans are always mad....but i did notice chris used capcut auto captions....which i thought he would never use...
I’m honestly all for references, but nostalgia shouldn’t blind you from the actual experiences that’ll unfold in a medium whether it’s a movie, video game, or whatever. Yeah Sonic fans should stop complaining for such simple things and enjoy what’s unfolding. Period.
I agree with hess but I also feel like you can do both. Do scenes that "do the thing", and design them in such a way as for "the thing" to fit thematically as an enhancement to the scene for those who recognize the reference rather than something that takes you out of it. But also, do scenes that use entirely new music that's just as good if not better and gets stuck in your head for weeks on end. It doesn't have to be an extreme case of one or the other. When it really comes down to it these are movies that take inspiration from the games, so in that regard they are an adaptation of a pre-existing franchise. They might as well embrace it and make the most out of the situation.
movie sonic's gotta be one of the best sonic designs or peak sonic
Ayo sonic 3 news let's goo , idc if it's good bad sonic is familiar with this so I'm excited either way
Actually in the sinister song from Sonic 2 apparently it sounds like Death Egg Zone from Sonic 3 &Knuckles
Honestly, both movies had their fair share of references but you can’t have too many references in a live action movie compared to an animated one. Music kinda doesn’t matter because some of the soundtrack of Mario was basically rips from the games at least the Sonic movie tried to sound heroic. (Not saying Mario’s soundtrack was heroic) If there would be songs from the games then which games could we use because there are some references in the music.
I wanna watch a movie where they have their own adaptation and add in references too whether it be on screen or music.
The fans will never be satisfied unless sonic says “heh, nothing personelle kid”
The purpose for nostalgic music isn’t just Easter eggs. It could also improve a scene with familiarity. The drowning music would’ve caused anxiety for those who knew what it meant, while still being played with a cinematic feel to not take others out of the moment.
However, since the composer didn’t think he could find a way to add nostalgic music without taking away from the moment, I’m happy he didn’t. I’d rather him, than someone who would kill nostalgia with abuse.
A good amount of references DOES make it better(imo), i mean who wouldnt like “live and learn” in a super sonic Vs super Shadow fight? Or
“Windmill Hut” in a Zelda Movie…? I mean by adding Classic(from the game) Music does make the fans ‘attracted’ to the movie.
Now if the movie fails, that’s not because of the Music….
If the sonic movie flipped shadows identity crisis on its head, and made shadow actually believe he is sonic, and that sonic is a replica, that coyld breathe new life into his arc
I like the Mario and Sonic Movies about the same because I like both game franchises
I say
Yes to everything
I liked how the movie continuity was unique but had references at just the right spaces ( look at the knuckles series for instance with ice cap zone being a resort or some other place ) and other refrences
still waiting for, sonichub x chairhub generations🔥🔥🔥
Modern SonicHub Vs Classic ChairHub
@@SonicHubYT perfect
Personally, I didn’t like the Mario movie much and I think the more rare references make them just a little more special and interesting
The Mario movie had random songs too, while yes I do like No Sleep Till Brookyln and Mario is FROM BROOKLYN did we really need it? Especially since same year Guardians 3, another Chris Pratt movie (hmmm maybe he likes Beastie Boys lol) also has that song. I also don't get the praise behind the Mario movie, it was ok, but... honestly I think Sonic 2 was still better. It had too many references, which is nice, but then it distracts from the movie, which... didn't have enough meat on its bones. It was too fast paced, so we couldn't take the world in, included too many elements like did we need a Mario Kart segment?
Why not save that for later a spin off or future movie? It was doing way too much all at once, and relied too much on famous actors in its cast to push it. Sonic has some, Jim Carrey and James Marsdon in movie 1... that's about it. Ben Shwartz has been rising from the role, no offense to him, but he's not an A list actor. Movie 2 we got the actual actress voicing Tails from the games rather than insert random famous person here which is really cool. We got Idris Elba who is pretty famous... again that's about it, only Idris Elba for movie 2. Movie 3, won't spoil and won't say 100%, but seems like Shadow will have a famous actor too, but that might be it for that cast too.
Mario the ENTIRE main cast was famous people, DK, Cranky, Mario, Luigi, Peach kind of sort of, Toad, Bowser, and while some of them did good especially Jack Black as Bowser, Keygan as Toad was good... can't say the same for all of them. People are hating Seth Rogan, 1 because he's everywhere in the most random roles, 2 he's not as funny as he used to be, and 3... kind of a douche irl. Love Chris Pratt, and it wasn't as bad as we thought... but yeah, and with the Garfield movie, he too is everywhere and proving he's not exactly a good voice actor, doesn't have much range. Personally thought Luigi was fine, but can get that some might not like it.
Then yes while we got to Mario's magical world unlike Sonic... we didn't have time to take it in. Along with Sonic has made his home plenty of times in the real world, both Adventure games take place in America's Los Angelos, while Unleashed is a world tour, Apotos being Greece, Spagonia Italy, Holoska Alaska, etc. So it's not as out of place for Sonic to interact with real people in a real setting.
Meanwhile Sonic movies have also expanded on the lore that the games never did. 3 key moments in movie 2, Knuckles' family and past, what if Robotnik had the power of the master emerald/chaos emeralds for himself rather than machines does he have a super form by extension? and 3 the origins of the chaos emeralds
There were so many problems with the Mario movie, but people were won over because of all the references and pretty colors, without stepping back and seeing it without their nostalgia glasses. It wasn't bad, it was ok, good at most, a 6-7/10, but far from being perfect or amazing.
3:20 This... You hit the nail on the head. That's what holding the franchise back. The humans are nice...even funny at times but we are here for the Furries. I didn't need 15 minutes of Bridezilla in the last film. I forgot for a second that I was watching Sonic #2. That's how out touch the scenes were. it felt like somebody changed the channel
There's certain things I really want the movies to incorporate from the games (please more music) but one of the things I like about the movies is that they feel like their own thing. The mario movie has a lot of easer eggs and characters from the games which is all really cool, but it ends up sacrificing a lot for it, like pacing and world building. I just don't think nostalgia should be put before the overall quality of the story and writing (which isn't always the movies strong suit, but when it works it works well)
I mean we got mad at his damn eye color no surprise they’re mad about the movie we’ve been waiting for since 2023 but like we also got mad at literal straight level design for years and it’s still going ever since Forces and we also got mad at Boom Sonic and all of his damn sports tape so like none of this is surprising to me this is the least surprising thing all year lol 💀
We’re not even going in order we skipped over the entirety of Sonic CD and Sonic Adventure 1 how the hell are we going to get Amy, Mecha Sonic, Metal Sonic, Big, Froggy, and Chaos in a movie if we skipped over all of them Big the Cat being the most important obviously how are they going to pull all that off if they haven’t even introduced Amy yet 🙏😭
I’d love to see the movies use at least some motifs for references but I also understand that licensing would be a big issue as the Sonic franchise has had so many artists on their osts and they may feel that if one song was referenced then they would have to reference a lot more than just one or two.
I would say just wait until movie comes out.
If they do go with nostalgia, do it sparingly and implement highlight moments when it's important.
The super mario is honestly one of my favourite movies of all time and hit whit serious nistlaga from my child hood I still mario on my wii (was I ahve a wii it's pretty much a antique at this point and still works perfectly) and Nintendo switch but seeing the movie really brought me back to my child hood growing up whit mario kart like mario kart, super mario bros and Mario galexy 2 (didn't get mario galexy 1 till much later) also I had a 3Ds and I was playing whit it then I went to lay down and the screen tapped off the wall and it broke but I lost the charger for it ages ago and it was out dated but was sad since luigi's mansion is one of favorite mario games so was so happy when I heard it was getting released on Nintendo switch in HD
Of course the Sonic fanbase is mad. It’s always something with them. They’re always going out of their way to find or even make up something to complain about.
Sonic fans are mad about nostalgia but yet are begging for a remaster of two 20 year old games
WTF?
Well we didnt get game references but we did get Moloch worship symbolism, and you know when i think of Sonic i immediately think of Moloch
What are you talking about?
no one would give a shit about junkie if he made good osts for the movies
I'm gonna be honest I didn't Care if the sonic movies didn't had that much of Refrences maybe some here and there But it didn't ruin my enjoyment for these films And re watching sonic 2 again I think The 2nd film had a Much better story than the first film I think Sonic 2 had a Better story plot than the Mario film but that's just my opnion
The problem with Sonic movies is that Mario movie is a movie that aknowledges it is based on a video game, and it doesn't shy away from that, keeping all the elements people love this franchise for.
While Sonic movie franchise only *pretends* to care about Sonic, but doesn't do justice to it
Heres the thing some never really think about and this goes on both sides. 1 the movie itself whlie aimed at a general audience there are more fans than non fans who will see that movie so you need some fan service in the movie not just 1 ost or non at all.
2. Speaking of ost whlie they want it to be original and dynamic i felt almost nothing for the music being played most times because it was boring and thats what kills it for me if your make some fitting music i want it to be so good i put it on my playlist not tune it out.
Lastly we don't need a B plot in the movie with the humans anymore sonic and friends can stand on thier own. So that's what i want to see in this 3rd movie little to no b plot and keep it to the main plot.